Here is a recommendation...how about you fix the raid rewards so that they be equal?
You will wait around forever for that. The designers wanted it to be tiered to make you spend to upgrade within your own guild. It is brilliant. Expect more pay to win toons that work best at the raid.
If you are pay to win... Find a mixed guild ASAP! Spoken as a guy with 100++ Han shards!!! Unlock this week!!!!!!!!
You heard it here first. Next months toon will be a DPSer at the Leia Rey level. Just you watch. If they are smart it will be Chromium exclusive. Remember where you heard it.
@CG_JohnSalera please don't change anything about the raid system. The vast quiet majority love it. Very favorable and fair heroic payouts. Crazy fair. I would say more fair than your second best gift Yoda...
I have to disagree with this - the overall structure of the raid is the worst format for a team that I've ever seen.
1. No shows that dropped in coin during the week getting zero is a bad experience that shouldn't be possible. No shows can happen as a raid time may not be good for a certain player at a given time or just there's a RL conflict that comes up unexpectedly. This is feature makes no sense.
2. The gear / credit / guild coin scale is incredibly too punitive - you need 50 people to bank coin daily to max the rewards, but only roughly 10 of them get non-Han rewards that are meaningful. I think it makes sense to keep the Han scale as is, but the other stuff should be flatter than it is and everyone should get top 10-15 type rewards at least. Otherwise you just don't advance materially.
You recommend finding a mixed guild, but unless you're top 10 it does't matter. Let's peak ahead to the future as time passes. The longer the cap holds, and this cap may hold a bit, the longer ALL players will come in to parity as they accumulate credits / gear / omega skills. Take it to an extreme when after months of raiding, after months of playing at 80, many players will be of the same quality or really darned close. When the talent level is more even across the entire player base this fails because there's nowhere to go to find a weak 40 to support the top 10.
Right now the way this is set up is 40 players on a team work hard to get dribble and 10 guys get to advance. Your solution - keep looking for a guild until you find one that allows you to place top 10 - is a self-serving approach and does nothing to solve the inherent problems in this structure at a TEAM level.
Bottom line is this system does everything possible to break teams apart and it puts a tremendous amount of pressure and time on the guild leaders to make lemonade out of lemons. Any system that would actually push a good player on a team to leave is a bad one. The competition should be guild vs. guild, but this system places guild members against each other for rewards. Sorry bro...but that's a terrible system for a team.
I completely disagree with you. If you have a guild where everyone knows their expectations and roll, your guild will get along fine. If the guild is breaking apart, I believe it is more of a reflection of those in the guild and not the structure as there are guilds which make it work well. My guild is my favorite part of the game and adds a sense of community that was lacking before.
I think his suggestion of a mixed guild is the key, anyone who spends a ton of money will eventually be frustrated being on the bottom, whereas many FTP may not have as much frustration knowing that they have made the choice not to spend money. @LordAlvert said it best that they have developed the formula to earn money. Before everyone catches the whales, there will be a new raid requiring completely different skills and the whales will be the first to have them leveled and geared, taking their place at the top again. Or as he pointed out, a new aurodium or chromium perfect for the next raid or meta switch.
I'm not saying his recommendation is wrong on finding a mixed guild - in fact it is correct in this instance - but my point is that is reflective of a bad team setup and thus the format here is bad because you need a team to do well. He's saying find a mixed guild because he knows getting rewards near the bottom is garbage. Therefore, 80% of the team gets garbage.
And on the chromium aspect and adding in raid toons...maybe. Maybe. I don't see anyone claiming TS is great for raids. Wedge? Don't think so. B2? Maybe ok for raids, but looks more PVP. Echo...maybe ok but not great? Rex is a beast - but how long ago was that? Magma was a newer toon that went to chrome first and he's pretty terrible. Sun Fac is an option, but he's not top tier in raids either - there are better options so he's not a must have to score well. Other than Rex and Leia, I think most of the best toons for the raid are completely farmable by a F2P. So based on the past few months of releases, I do not see evidence of this going on at all consistently.
No recent pay toon has been meta for raids. I'm predicting the next will. The only way is dps. Or really high turn meter potency. They have gaffed on which toons would be good for raids (raid mega pack ha ha ha). My prediction is a big dps which is always good to come out next month.
Also agree with @Empire_Relic different raid to force different toons will come.
Even if that's true, there still needs to be some aspect of the raid that actually provides a payoff at a team level and having some tangible benefit for excelling as a team. I think it's sad that the best part of your advice here is that good players should leave their guilds to go find weaker squads so they can place top 10 because 80% of the rewards are garbage. This is a team game - that is a sad statement for the incentive structure of a team. I've just never seen a system that required a team but the individuals of the team received no benefit for the success of the overall team. Individuals that perform above and beyond should be rewarded yes...but to have zero team incentive for a team activity blows my mind.
I'm consistently around 6-8 in our guild for raids, and completely agree with your point here. It's not the right system for a team.
There's folks, a lot of folks, in our guild who aren't happy with their rewards from raid. So, we've tried to make it more fair in that those of us who can get high damage only hit once in each phase to give them a chance to make top 10 because if we hit multiple times in phase 1 there's no chance they can compete. Funny how I just used the word "compete" in reference to our team...
Still waiting on that edit forum profile setting so I can change my name...
Seeking 2 whales for our guild. We are going to BARELY beat T7 today. You will be top 3 every heroic raid... And you'd be helping us out immensely. SithLivesMatter is our guild name. Really cool people. Good mix of of people and great conversation... So I agree with what the OP said about whales branding out. Why p2p... If you don't get the best gear!!!!
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
1) Do not just Zerg the heroic. Organize guys and take turns. Be on a guild that doesn't Zerg heroic.
2) Break your guild apart when you have 5 good phase one teams and more than 6-7 whales of squads with 40 plus seven stars. You get double the rewards for the top squads and double the Han shards. Not worth it to have 35 seven stars and be out of the top 10. I would immediately leave any guild like that. Why pay to lose? Top 10 rewards much better after that steep drop off.
3) Look for excellent guild leaders that have the whole guild in control and people are organized and fair.
4) Line or better yet discord is absolutely critical.
5) Guys really should be having fun. Great comraderie is essential.
6) Key to above is all the guys happy with their spots. Like a basketball team.
7) Friendly to your timezone. Our smart leaders set up a European guild to help the USA players. Brilliant.
8) Thank you so much EA and CG for making this awesome system. I haven't been happier. I bought maxed B2 today don't spend all my money in one place.
DM me if you have any questions. Also post here if you are having a great guild experience and have more recommendations.
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
1) Do not just Zerg the heroic. Organize guys and take turns. Be on a guild that doesn't Zerg heroic.
2) Break your guild apart when you have 5 good phase one teams and more than 6-7 whales of squads with 40 plus seven stars. You get double the rewards for the top squads and double the Han shards. Not worth it to have 35 seven stars and be out of the top 10. I would immediately leave any guild like that. Why pay to lose? Top 10 rewards much better after that steep drop off.
3) Look for excellent guild leaders that have the whole guild in control and people are organized and fair.
4) Line or better yet discord is absolutely critical.
5) Guys really should be having fun. Great comraderie is essential.
6) Key to above is all the guys happy with their spots. Like a basketball team.
7) Friendly to your timezone. Our smart leaders set up a European guild to help the USA players. Brilliant.
8) Thank you so much EA and CG for making this awesome system. I haven't been happier. I bought maxed B2 today don't spend all my money in one place.
DM me if you have any questions. Also post here if you are having a great guild experience and have more recommendations.
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
1) Do not just Zerg the heroic. Organize guys and take turns. Be on a guild that doesn't Zerg heroic.
2) Break your guild apart when you have 5 good phase one teams and more than 6-7 whales of squads with 40 plus seven stars. You get double the rewards for the top squads and double the Han shards. Not worth it to have 35 seven stars and be out of the top 10. I would immediately leave any guild like that. Why pay to lose? Top 10 rewards much better after that steep drop off.
3) Look for excellent guild leaders that have the whole guild in control and people are organized and fair.
4) Line or better yet discord is absolutely critical.
5) Guys really should be having fun. Great comraderie is essential.
6) Key to above is all the guys happy with their spots. Like a basketball team.
7) Friendly to your timezone. Our smart leaders set up a European guild to help the USA players. Brilliant.
8) Thank you so much EA and CG for making this awesome system. I haven't been happier. I bought maxed B2 today don't spend all my money in one place.
DM me if you have any questions. Also post here if you are having a great guild experience and have more recommendations.
Lol
@Maraxus ' last "lol" was in reference to the most brilliant thing posted on these forums in three months. @Mol_Sign ' s team construction for a 1 million phase one heroic rancor run squad recommendation on May 30th.
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
1) Do not just Zerg the heroic. Organize guys and take turns. Be on a guild that doesn't Zerg heroic.
2) Break your guild apart when you have 5 good phase one teams and more than 6-7 whales of squads with 40 plus seven stars. You get double the rewards for the top squads and double the Han shards. Not worth it to have 35 seven stars and be out of the top 10. I would immediately leave any guild like that. Why pay to lose? Top 10 rewards much better after that steep drop off.
3) Look for excellent guild leaders that have the whole guild in control and people are organized and fair.
4) Line or better yet discord is absolutely critical.
5) Guys really should be having fun. Great comraderie is essential.
6) Key to above is all the guys happy with their spots. Like a basketball team.
7) Friendly to your timezone. Our smart leaders set up a European guild to help the USA players. Brilliant.
8) Thank you so much EA and CG for making this awesome system. I haven't been happier. I bought maxed B2 today don't spend all my money in one place.
DM me if you have any questions. Also post here if you are having a great guild experience and have more recommendations.
Lol
@Maraxus ' last "lol" was in reference to the most brilliant thing posted on these forums in three months. @Mol_Sign ' s team construction for a 1 million phase one heroic rancor run squad recommendation on May 30th.
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
Honestly I'm just trying to solve the puzzle presented to me. I think you can appreciate that...
We share more common ground and more similarity of perspective than this thread might convey.
What I think is the solution is just to do binary fission and stay together as one entire large guild using discord. Being nice sharing my solution to the very difficult system we are working under.
I chose to find guys who need heroic 30-50 prizes. Many do!!
They are pretty good 15 Nubian 6, lotta guild currency 730 (almost 10 Rey shards), 12 good purples, and 250 credits and 2 Hans. Find players who want that...
Don't shoot the messenger. Don't shoot the guy who solved the puzzle and the riddle.
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
LOL, there's over a hundred users on our Discord server, made up of two healthy guilds that collect max coins and have heroic on T7, working on a 3rd guild to make it 150+.
What's wrong in that? The guys that branched off into the sister guild still laugh and hang out with the guys from original MC. The new guys brought into MC totally get along and contribute just like the original ones.
I'm one of the "lowly" 75-80% you're taking pity on, but don't. My original contributions in raids were around the 80K mark. Now they're around the 200K mark. That's because I had whales and big dolphins carrying me. They got the lions share of the rewards because they did the lions share of the work. I used to place in the bottom 50, now I place in the Top 40.
Before too long I'll be breaking into the Top 20. When I do, I'll consider becoming part of the new core that makes up MC3 or MC4 or whatever that one is. I'll still be part of that same core group and still be chatting with my friends on Discord and everyone will be winning.
Or we can sit on our original 50 and stomp our feet and throw money in air while have a temper tantrum that spending enough money to buy a luxury car on a mobile game isn't getting us all of our hearts desires.
I personally like our way better but everyone else playing this game can decide for themselves.
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
You seem to have a myopic view of the state of the game. There are many players mired in low performance guilds right now. You seem to think everyone is achieving at an optimal level which they are not. What Lord Alvert says works, if the guild becomes large enough, it is not bound by the construct of the game. A 60 person guild can split into two and recruit some of the hungry players out there. Most do not have full rosters and are struggling in tier five and six raids.
Lord Alvert is simply saying for the current state of the system, this is the best solution. He is trying to offer solutions instead of whining which he articulated was his original intent.
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
LOL, there's over a hundred users on our Discord server, made up of two healthy guilds that collect max coins and have heroic on T7, working on a 3rd guild to make it 150+.
What's wrong in that? The guys that branched off into the sister guild still laugh and hang out with the guys from original MC. The new guys brought into MC totally get along and contribute just like the original ones.
I'm one of the "lowly" 75-80% you're taking pity on, but don't. My original contributions in raids were around the 80K mark. Now they're around the 200K mark. That's because I had whales and big dolphins carrying me. They got the lions share of the rewards because they did the lions share of the work. I used to place in the bottom 50, now I place in the Top 40.
Before too long I'll be breaking into the Top 20. When I do, I'll consider becoming part of the new core that makes up MC3 or MC4 or whatever that one is. I'll still be part of that same core group and still be chatting with my friends on Discord and everyone will be winning.
Or we can sit on our original 50 and stomp our feet and throw money in air while have a temper tantrum that spending enough money to buy a luxury car on a mobile game isn't getting us all of our hearts desires.
I personally like our way better but everyone else playing this game can decide for themselves.
You have a lot of faith. That sounds just like a pyramid scam. For that to continue to work you have to expand indefinitely to an ever increasing number of teams, else at some point the former worker bees will have no new team to be leaders in and will be stuck in the junky rewards section. Are you sure there will be an MC3 let alone an MC4? I'm absolutely not trying to rip your guild - if you guys are happy fine, great - but I don't get the defending of this system. Obviously other guilds are fine as well in managing the issues it presents as multiple guilds have more players than you and have been together for a while and are doing more T7 raids at a guild level, but being able to manage something doesn't mean it's a good system.
I am not sure you solved anything. At Team Instinct we have two teams with incredible rosters and we continually deal with the stupid rewards system and have only lost one person to "maximizing their own rosters" by leaving to a smaller guild. I won't say everyone is 100% happy in their raid placement, and I wouldn't be surprised to see people leave later.. but as of now our current guild setup seems to be working. Part of it is getting people who enjoy being part of the guild rather than their own rewards. Finding those people is more "solving the puzzle" than suggesting people quit for greener pastures.
Also, I think JSA hinted at this, but if Team Instinct stays together (which is the plan), when harder stuff comes out we will be more prepared because we have our solid squad already. We won't have to ditch our bottom half (or leave and try and get in a better guild) because we all stayed together.
Lastly, I don't think you can claim there is any BEST way to run a heroic other than what is best for your players. If your players overwhelmingly want zergs, then you zerg, especially if attendance is high. If they want spread out raids that take hours but are more fair, then you do those. Personally, I think it is **** that you can donate coins and not get raid rewards. That is ridiculous if you ask me.
To give you an idea of what we do in my team, our weekday raids, which can be one or two a week, are on a rotating schedule where we give 12 hours to lock in 0 damage if you can't make the blitz portion (at the end of the 12 hours). Then, to accommodate family time on weekdays, we blitz 1 to 2 heroics and are done in 20 minutes for each one. I know this isn't perfect, but it works for our guild.
PS: In our most recent raids we have seen people who used to be in the bottom 50% move up to the top 25%. We have also seen late teen, mid-20's people move up to top 3. Their is something to be said about seeing your guild progress.
One last thing, as much as you hate blitzing heroics, we generally have a diverse top 5, sometimes even top 10, thanks to the lack of pre-attacking while the raid is open on non-blitz raids. You can't practice your attacks or retreat as easy, thus allowing for more RNG (if you will) among the scores.
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
LOL, there's over a hundred users on our Discord server, made up of two healthy guilds that collect max coins and have heroic on T7, working on a 3rd guild to make it 150+.
What's wrong in that? The guys that branched off into the sister guild still laugh and hang out with the guys from original MC. The new guys brought into MC totally get along and contribute just like the original ones.
I'm one of the "lowly" 75-80% you're taking pity on, but don't. My original contributions in raids were around the 80K mark. Now they're around the 200K mark. That's because I had whales and big dolphins carrying me. They got the lions share of the rewards because they did the lions share of the work. I used to place in the bottom 50, now I place in the Top 40.
Before too long I'll be breaking into the Top 20. When I do, I'll consider becoming part of the new core that makes up MC3 or MC4 or whatever that one is. I'll still be part of that same core group and still be chatting with my friends on Discord and everyone will be winning.
Or we can sit on our original 50 and stomp our feet and throw money in air while have a temper tantrum that spending enough money to buy a luxury car on a mobile game isn't getting us all of our hearts desires.
I personally like our way better but everyone else playing this game can decide for themselves.
You have a lot of faith. That sounds just like a pyramid scam. For that to continue to work you have to expand indefinitely to an ever increasing number of teams, else at some point the former worker bees will have no new team to be leaders in and will be stuck in the junky rewards section. Are you sure there will be an MC3 let alone an MC4? I'm absolutely not trying to rip your guild - if you guys are happy fine, great - but I don't get the defending of this system. Obviously other guilds are fine as well in managing the issues it presents as multiple guilds have more players than you and have been together for a while and are doing more T7 raids at a guild level, but being able to manage something doesn't mean it's a good system.
There is a small meager band forming for MC 3 now actually. You underestimate the number of lower level players out there who want to be apart of something better, but you may be shielded from the fact when you force people to fill out an application. The model above is an inclusive model that does not segregate the big spenders and the casual players. It allows everyone to fellowship and share ideas and try out new things. Is it ideal, no. However it works for the way the game is set up.
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
LOL, there's over a hundred users on our Discord server, made up of two healthy guilds that collect max coins and have heroic on T7, working on a 3rd guild to make it 150+.
What's wrong in that? The guys that branched off into the sister guild still laugh and hang out with the guys from original MC. The new guys brought into MC totally get along and contribute just like the original ones.
I'm one of the "lowly" 75-80% you're taking pity on, but don't. My original contributions in raids were around the 80K mark. Now they're around the 200K mark. That's because I had whales and big dolphins carrying me. They got the lions share of the rewards because they did the lions share of the work. I used to place in the bottom 50, now I place in the Top 40.
Before too long I'll be breaking into the Top 20. When I do, I'll consider becoming part of the new core that makes up MC3 or MC4 or whatever that one is. I'll still be part of that same core group and still be chatting with my friends on Discord and everyone will be winning.
Or we can sit on our original 50 and stomp our feet and throw money in air while have a temper tantrum that spending enough money to buy a luxury car on a mobile game isn't getting us all of our hearts desires.
I personally like our way better but everyone else playing this game can decide for themselves.
You have a lot of faith. That sounds just like a pyramid scam. For that to continue to work you have to expand indefinitely to an ever increasing number of teams, else at some point the former worker bees will have no new team to be leaders in and will be stuck in the junky rewards section. Are you sure there will be an MC3 let alone an MC4? I'm absolutely not trying to rip your guild - if you guys are happy fine, great - but I don't get the defending of this system. Obviously other guilds are fine as well in managing the issues it presents as multiple guilds have more players than you and have been together for a while and are doing more T7 raids at a guild level, but being able to manage something doesn't mean it's a good system.
There is a small meager band forming for MC 3 now actually. You underestimate the number of lower level players out there who want to be apart of something better, but you may be shielded from the fact when you force people to fill out an application. The model above is an inclusive model that does not segregate the big spenders and the casual players. It allows everyone to fellowship and share ideas and try out new things. Is it ideal, no. However it works for the way the game is set up.
Our guild has never used applications. Our less intense guild has never done more than a T6 and one of our teams as originally founded was almost completely devoid of whales; mostly moderate, low or no spend players. So we are absolutely very inclusive at an overall guild level.
I think at this point you are taking my attacks against he system and challenge of your opinion that the system is great as an attack against your current method of navigating the system.
Whether I underestimate the number of low level players wanting to join or not, the fact is that in order for you to make that work as a permanent strategy you guys will have to continually create new teams and shift players. So 6-9 months from now, are you guys really going to be running 8-9 teams consisting of over 400 players and planning to create more? If not, than where will the progressing worker bees go to get in on top 10 rewards once they build up their rosters? Can't we just fix the system to be better?
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
LOL, there's over a hundred users on our Discord server, made up of two healthy guilds that collect max coins and have heroic on T7, working on a 3rd guild to make it 150+.
What's wrong in that? The guys that branched off into the sister guild still laugh and hang out with the guys from original MC. The new guys brought into MC totally get along and contribute just like the original ones.
I'm one of the "lowly" 75-80% you're taking pity on, but don't. My original contributions in raids were around the 80K mark. Now they're around the 200K mark. That's because I had whales and big dolphins carrying me. They got the lions share of the rewards because they did the lions share of the work. I used to place in the bottom 50, now I place in the Top 40.
Before too long I'll be breaking into the Top 20. When I do, I'll consider becoming part of the new core that makes up MC3 or MC4 or whatever that one is. I'll still be part of that same core group and still be chatting with my friends on Discord and everyone will be winning.
Or we can sit on our original 50 and stomp our feet and throw money in air while have a temper tantrum that spending enough money to buy a luxury car on a mobile game isn't getting us all of our hearts desires.
I personally like our way better but everyone else playing this game can decide for themselves.
You have a lot of faith. That sounds just like a pyramid scam. For that to continue to work you have to expand indefinitely to an ever increasing number of teams, else at some point the former worker bees will have no new team to be leaders in and will be stuck in the junky rewards section. Are you sure there will be an MC3 let alone an MC4? I'm absolutely not trying to rip your guild - if you guys are happy fine, great - but I don't get the defending of this system. Obviously other guilds are fine as well in managing the issues it presents as multiple guilds have more players than you and have been together for a while and are doing more T7 raids at a guild level, but being able to manage something doesn't mean it's a good system.
There is a small meager band forming for MC 3 now actually. You underestimate the number of lower level players out there who want to be apart of something better, but you may be shielded from the fact when you force people to fill out an application. The model above is an inclusive model that does not segregate the big spenders and the casual players. It allows everyone to fellowship and share ideas and try out new things. Is it ideal, no. However it works for the way the game is set up.
Our guild has never used applications. Our less intense guild has never done more than a T6 and one of our teams as originally founded was almost completely devoid of whales; mostly moderate, low or no spend players. So we are absolutely very inclusive at an overall guild level.
I think at this point you are taking my attacks against he system and challenge of your opinion that the system is great as an attack against your current method of navigating the system.
Whether I underestimate the number of low level players wanting to join or not, the fact is that in order for you to make that work as a permanent strategy you guys will have to continually create new teams and shift players. So 6-9 months from now, are you guys really going to be running 8-9 teams consisting of over 400 players and planning to create more? If not, than where will the progressing worker bees go to get in on top 10 rewards once they build up their rosters? Can't we just fix the system to be better?
We run 16 guilds now without a problem, 5 of which do heroics. Just takes a little coordination and like minded people
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
LOL, there's over a hundred users on our Discord server, made up of two healthy guilds that collect max coins and have heroic on T7, working on a 3rd guild to make it 150+.
What's wrong in that? The guys that branched off into the sister guild still laugh and hang out with the guys from original MC. The new guys brought into MC totally get along and contribute just like the original ones.
I'm one of the "lowly" 75-80% you're taking pity on, but don't. My original contributions in raids were around the 80K mark. Now they're around the 200K mark. That's because I had whales and big dolphins carrying me. They got the lions share of the rewards because they did the lions share of the work. I used to place in the bottom 50, now I place in the Top 40.
Before too long I'll be breaking into the Top 20. When I do, I'll consider becoming part of the new core that makes up MC3 or MC4 or whatever that one is. I'll still be part of that same core group and still be chatting with my friends on Discord and everyone will be winning.
Or we can sit on our original 50 and stomp our feet and throw money in air while have a temper tantrum that spending enough money to buy a luxury car on a mobile game isn't getting us all of our hearts desires.
I personally like our way better but everyone else playing this game can decide for themselves.
You have a lot of faith. That sounds just like a pyramid scam. For that to continue to work you have to expand indefinitely to an ever increasing number of teams, else at some point the former worker bees will have no new team to be leaders in and will be stuck in the junky rewards section. Are you sure there will be an MC3 let alone an MC4? I'm absolutely not trying to rip your guild - if you guys are happy fine, great - but I don't get the defending of this system. Obviously other guilds are fine as well in managing the issues it presents as multiple guilds have more players than you and have been together for a while and are doing more T7 raids at a guild level, but being able to manage something doesn't mean it's a good system.
There is a small meager band forming for MC 3 now actually. You underestimate the number of lower level players out there who want to be apart of something better, but you may be shielded from the fact when you force people to fill out an application. The model above is an inclusive model that does not segregate the big spenders and the casual players. It allows everyone to fellowship and share ideas and try out new things. Is it ideal, no. However it works for the way the game is set up.
Our guild has never used applications. Our less intense guild has never done more than a T6 and one of our teams as originally founded was almost completely devoid of whales; mostly moderate, low or no spend players. So we are absolutely very inclusive at an overall guild level.
I think at this point you are taking my attacks against he system and challenge of your opinion that the system is great as an attack against your current method of navigating the system.
Whether I underestimate the number of low level players wanting to join or not, the fact is that in order for you to make that work as a permanent strategy you guys will have to continually create new teams and shift players. So 6-9 months from now, are you guys really going to be running 8-9 teams consisting of over 400 players and planning to create more? If not, than where will the progressing worker bees go to get in on top 10 rewards once they build up their rosters? Can't we just fix the system to be better?
We run 16 guilds now without a problem, 5 of which do heroics. Just takes a little coordination and like minded people
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
LOL, there's over a hundred users on our Discord server, made up of two healthy guilds that collect max coins and have heroic on T7, working on a 3rd guild to make it 150+.
What's wrong in that? The guys that branched off into the sister guild still laugh and hang out with the guys from original MC. The new guys brought into MC totally get along and contribute just like the original ones.
I'm one of the "lowly" 75-80% you're taking pity on, but don't. My original contributions in raids were around the 80K mark. Now they're around the 200K mark. That's because I had whales and big dolphins carrying me. They got the lions share of the rewards because they did the lions share of the work. I used to place in the bottom 50, now I place in the Top 40.
Before too long I'll be breaking into the Top 20. When I do, I'll consider becoming part of the new core that makes up MC3 or MC4 or whatever that one is. I'll still be part of that same core group and still be chatting with my friends on Discord and everyone will be winning.
Or we can sit on our original 50 and stomp our feet and throw money in air while have a temper tantrum that spending enough money to buy a luxury car on a mobile game isn't getting us all of our hearts desires.
I personally like our way better but everyone else playing this game can decide for themselves.
You have a lot of faith. That sounds just like a pyramid scam. For that to continue to work you have to expand indefinitely to an ever increasing number of teams, else at some point the former worker bees will have no new team to be leaders in and will be stuck in the junky rewards section. Are you sure there will be an MC3 let alone an MC4? I'm absolutely not trying to rip your guild - if you guys are happy fine, great - but I don't get the defending of this system. Obviously other guilds are fine as well in managing the issues it presents as multiple guilds have more players than you and have been together for a while and are doing more T7 raids at a guild level, but being able to manage something doesn't mean it's a good system.
There is a small meager band forming for MC 3 now actually. You underestimate the number of lower level players out there who want to be apart of something better, but you may be shielded from the fact when you force people to fill out an application. The model above is an inclusive model that does not segregate the big spenders and the casual players. It allows everyone to fellowship and share ideas and try out new things. Is it ideal, no. However it works for the way the game is set up.
Our guild has never used applications. Our less intense guild has never done more than a T6 and one of our teams as originally founded was almost completely devoid of whales; mostly moderate, low or no spend players. So we are absolutely very inclusive at an overall guild level.
I think at this point you are taking my attacks against he system and challenge of your opinion that the system is great as an attack against your current method of navigating the system.
Whether I underestimate the number of low level players wanting to join or not, the fact is that in order for you to make that work as a permanent strategy you guys will have to continually create new teams and shift players. So 6-9 months from now, are you guys really going to be running 8-9 teams consisting of over 400 players and planning to create more? If not, than where will the progressing worker bees go to get in on top 10 rewards once they build up their rosters? Can't we just fix the system to be better?
We run 16 guilds now without a problem, 5 of which do heroics. Just takes a little coordination and like minded people
Impressive... I find myself getting confused keeping track of 2 full guilds and a much smaller third.
@JohnnySteelAlpha I should have directed my quote better. It was to be directed at team instinct of which several take your opinion but obviously you are not a member.
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
LOL, there's over a hundred users on our Discord server, made up of two healthy guilds that collect max coins and have heroic on T7, working on a 3rd guild to make it 150+.
What's wrong in that? The guys that branched off into the sister guild still laugh and hang out with the guys from original MC. The new guys brought into MC totally get along and contribute just like the original ones.
I'm one of the "lowly" 75-80% you're taking pity on, but don't. My original contributions in raids were around the 80K mark. Now they're around the 200K mark. That's because I had whales and big dolphins carrying me. They got the lions share of the rewards because they did the lions share of the work. I used to place in the bottom 50, now I place in the Top 40.
Before too long I'll be breaking into the Top 20. When I do, I'll consider becoming part of the new core that makes up MC3 or MC4 or whatever that one is. I'll still be part of that same core group and still be chatting with my friends on Discord and everyone will be winning.
Or we can sit on our original 50 and stomp our feet and throw money in air while have a temper tantrum that spending enough money to buy a luxury car on a mobile game isn't getting us all of our hearts desires.
I personally like our way better but everyone else playing this game can decide for themselves.
You have a lot of faith. That sounds just like a pyramid scam. For that to continue to work you have to expand indefinitely to an ever increasing number of teams, else at some point the former worker bees will have no new team to be leaders in and will be stuck in the junky rewards section. Are you sure there will be an MC3 let alone an MC4? I'm absolutely not trying to rip your guild - if you guys are happy fine, great - but I don't get the defending of this system. Obviously other guilds are fine as well in managing the issues it presents as multiple guilds have more players than you and have been together for a while and are doing more T7 raids at a guild level, but being able to manage something doesn't mean it's a good system.
There is a small meager band forming for MC 3 now actually. You underestimate the number of lower level players out there who want to be apart of something better, but you may be shielded from the fact when you force people to fill out an application. The model above is an inclusive model that does not segregate the big spenders and the casual players. It allows everyone to fellowship and share ideas and try out new things. Is it ideal, no. However it works for the way the game is set up.
Our guild has never used applications. Our less intense guild has never done more than a T6 and one of our teams as originally founded was almost completely devoid of whales; mostly moderate, low or no spend players. So we are absolutely very inclusive at an overall guild level.
I think at this point you are taking my attacks against he system and challenge of your opinion that the system is great as an attack against your current method of navigating the system.
Whether I underestimate the number of low level players wanting to join or not, the fact is that in order for you to make that work as a permanent strategy you guys will have to continually create new teams and shift players. So 6-9 months from now, are you guys really going to be running 8-9 teams consisting of over 400 players and planning to create more? If not, than where will the progressing worker bees go to get in on top 10 rewards once they build up their rosters? Can't we just fix the system to be better?
We run 16 guilds now without a problem, 5 of which do heroics. Just takes a little coordination and like minded people
Impressive... I find myself getting confused keeping track of 2 full guilds and a much smaller third.
@JohnnySteelAlpha I should have directed my quote better. It was to be directed at team instinct of which several take your opinion but obviously you are not a member.
So you attacked your own guild member because his opinion is similar to team instinct? GEEEZZZ We have really go into your head
When I say know their roles, some are good in phase one, some in phase 2 or 3. I don't know anyone in our guild who is upset with their rewards. I would say 40-50 are happier than 30-39.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
LOL, there's over a hundred users on our Discord server, made up of two healthy guilds that collect max coins and have heroic on T7, working on a 3rd guild to make it 150+.
What's wrong in that? The guys that branched off into the sister guild still laugh and hang out with the guys from original MC. The new guys brought into MC totally get along and contribute just like the original ones.
I'm one of the "lowly" 75-80% you're taking pity on, but don't. My original contributions in raids were around the 80K mark. Now they're around the 200K mark. That's because I had whales and big dolphins carrying me. They got the lions share of the rewards because they did the lions share of the work. I used to place in the bottom 50, now I place in the Top 40.
Before too long I'll be breaking into the Top 20. When I do, I'll consider becoming part of the new core that makes up MC3 or MC4 or whatever that one is. I'll still be part of that same core group and still be chatting with my friends on Discord and everyone will be winning.
Or we can sit on our original 50 and stomp our feet and throw money in air while have a temper tantrum that spending enough money to buy a luxury car on a mobile game isn't getting us all of our hearts desires.
I personally like our way better but everyone else playing this game can decide for themselves.
You have a lot of faith. That sounds just like a pyramid scam. For that to continue to work you have to expand indefinitely to an ever increasing number of teams, else at some point the former worker bees will have no new team to be leaders in and will be stuck in the junky rewards section. Are you sure there will be an MC3 let alone an MC4? I'm absolutely not trying to rip your guild - if you guys are happy fine, great - but I don't get the defending of this system. Obviously other guilds are fine as well in managing the issues it presents as multiple guilds have more players than you and have been together for a while and are doing more T7 raids at a guild level, but being able to manage something doesn't mean it's a good system.
There is a small meager band forming for MC 3 now actually. You underestimate the number of lower level players out there who want to be apart of something better, but you may be shielded from the fact when you force people to fill out an application. The model above is an inclusive model that does not segregate the big spenders and the casual players. It allows everyone to fellowship and share ideas and try out new things. Is it ideal, no. However it works for the way the game is set up.
Our guild has never used applications. Our less intense guild has never done more than a T6 and one of our teams as originally founded was almost completely devoid of whales; mostly moderate, low or no spend players. So we are absolutely very inclusive at an overall guild level.
I think at this point you are taking my attacks against he system and challenge of your opinion that the system is great as an attack against your current method of navigating the system.
Whether I underestimate the number of low level players wanting to join or not, the fact is that in order for you to make that work as a permanent strategy you guys will have to continually create new teams and shift players. So 6-9 months from now, are you guys really going to be running 8-9 teams consisting of over 400 players and planning to create more? If not, than where will the progressing worker bees go to get in on top 10 rewards once they build up their rosters? Can't we just fix the system to be better?
We run 16 guilds now without a problem, 5 of which do heroics. Just takes a little coordination and like minded people
Impressive... I find myself getting confused keeping track of 2 full guilds and a much smaller third.
@JohnnySteelAlpha I should have directed my quote better. It was to be directed at team instinct of which several take your opinion but obviously you are not a member.
So you attacked your own guild member because his opinion is similar to team instinct? GEEEZZZ We have really go into your head
He is not my guild member. I think he is a member of Order 66 which looks to be the preeminent guild right now.
I would like to talk with someone from Order 66 to see how much coordination they do between the different guilds or if both are relatively autonomous of each other though.
Replies
I'm consistently around 6-8 in our guild for raids, and completely agree with your point here. It's not the right system for a team.
There's folks, a lot of folks, in our guild who aren't happy with their rewards from raid. So, we've tried to make it more fair in that those of us who can get high damage only hit once in each phase to give them a chance to make top 10 because if we hit multiple times in phase 1 there's no chance they can compete. Funny how I just used the word "compete" in reference to our team...
Your guild sounds like it sucks.
This may be correct as there are norms and differences in expectations, probably as a result of different spend levers historically and also where you started when the guild was set. Just look out a month or so though as these middling players get better and better - unlock 7* heroes, build gear on core toons, get enough omegas - do you honestly think they will still have the same expectations to just take garbage rewards? No. To believe that you would have to feel that they have no desire to improve their team and score better.
Here's the deal - if any of these people express a desire to get better at the raid and score better - than in the end they will not be truly happy permanently getting poor rewards because otherwise they wouldn't be concerned about getting better at the raid.
Lol
Absolutely correct. That's when it is time to split. They are ready to move up. They have a good phase one squad and decent rancor squad. We overkill and time to bring in people happy to get 45th. Of which there are many stuck in awful poorly functioning tier 5 guilds.
Yes you are welcome for this easy solution. I give away the keys to be castle... The simple way to be the BEST at this game. The solution for the ultimate choke point/bottleneck. Sheesh wish I hadn't of spilled the beans.
Luckily there is enough smokescreen here and stubbornness that the message is being missed.
My favorite forms of it are:
1) "system is flawed I shouldn't have to"
2) "I love my guys though and we are loyal"
3) "it shouldn't be this way it should be united and strongest"
4) "please fix @cg_johnsalerra. (Misspelled intentionally)"
Relevant clichés:
You can lead a horse to water...
If you aren't first place you're last
If you can't beat them...
@Maraxus ' last "lol" was in reference to the most brilliant thing posted on these forums in three months. @Mol_Sign ' s team construction for a 1 million phase one heroic rancor run squad recommendation on May 30th.
See this: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/comment/446020#Comment_446020
(Scroll up)
He lol'd the single best piece of info and selfless piece of info on this forum in months....
So when @Maraxus lol's your post that means you have said something genius. In both cases true...
#mightneedtohireaPRfirmforposts
#remarkableconfusion #deleriousforumposts
#youguysmightwannamuzzlethislookinbad
You continue to weaken your argument that the the system shouldn't be changed by explaining in more detail your thoughts. You're now advocating a system of continual guild turnover. Supposedly you love your team and your guild, yet you're already counting on splitting up when others improve to catch up to you? That's a great teammate there. I love the honesty though that you are okay abusing the lower 75-80% of your roster, whatever that composition is, to your own benefit. So rather than fix the system, you want to continually funnel through and turnover the majority of your own guild over time and continue to have a class of your guild that is merely there to bank coin so you can get top rewards and raid frequently?
Exactly that you guys make me laugh... Actually lots of laugh...
Hence the lol
Honestly I'm just trying to solve the puzzle presented to me. I think you can appreciate that...
We share more common ground and more similarity of perspective than this thread might convey.
What I think is the solution is just to do binary fission and stay together as one entire large guild using discord. Being nice sharing my solution to the very difficult system we are working under.
I chose to find guys who need heroic 30-50 prizes. Many do!!
They are pretty good 15 Nubian 6, lotta guild currency 730 (almost 10 Rey shards), 12 good purples, and 250 credits and 2 Hans. Find players who want that...
Don't shoot the messenger. Don't shoot the guy who solved the puzzle and the riddle.
LOL, there's over a hundred users on our Discord server, made up of two healthy guilds that collect max coins and have heroic on T7, working on a 3rd guild to make it 150+.
What's wrong in that? The guys that branched off into the sister guild still laugh and hang out with the guys from original MC. The new guys brought into MC totally get along and contribute just like the original ones.
I'm one of the "lowly" 75-80% you're taking pity on, but don't. My original contributions in raids were around the 80K mark. Now they're around the 200K mark. That's because I had whales and big dolphins carrying me. They got the lions share of the rewards because they did the lions share of the work. I used to place in the bottom 50, now I place in the Top 40.
Before too long I'll be breaking into the Top 20. When I do, I'll consider becoming part of the new core that makes up MC3 or MC4 or whatever that one is. I'll still be part of that same core group and still be chatting with my friends on Discord and everyone will be winning.
Or we can sit on our original 50 and stomp our feet and throw money in air while have a temper tantrum that spending enough money to buy a luxury car on a mobile game isn't getting us all of our hearts desires.
I personally like our way better but everyone else playing this game can decide for themselves.
You seem to have a myopic view of the state of the game. There are many players mired in low performance guilds right now. You seem to think everyone is achieving at an optimal level which they are not. What Lord Alvert says works, if the guild becomes large enough, it is not bound by the construct of the game. A 60 person guild can split into two and recruit some of the hungry players out there. Most do not have full rosters and are struggling in tier five and six raids.
Lord Alvert is simply saying for the current state of the system, this is the best solution. He is trying to offer solutions instead of whining which he articulated was his original intent.
You have a lot of faith. That sounds just like a pyramid scam. For that to continue to work you have to expand indefinitely to an ever increasing number of teams, else at some point the former worker bees will have no new team to be leaders in and will be stuck in the junky rewards section. Are you sure there will be an MC3 let alone an MC4? I'm absolutely not trying to rip your guild - if you guys are happy fine, great - but I don't get the defending of this system. Obviously other guilds are fine as well in managing the issues it presents as multiple guilds have more players than you and have been together for a while and are doing more T7 raids at a guild level, but being able to manage something doesn't mean it's a good system.
Also, I think JSA hinted at this, but if Team Instinct stays together (which is the plan), when harder stuff comes out we will be more prepared because we have our solid squad already. We won't have to ditch our bottom half (or leave and try and get in a better guild) because we all stayed together.
Lastly, I don't think you can claim there is any BEST way to run a heroic other than what is best for your players. If your players overwhelmingly want zergs, then you zerg, especially if attendance is high. If they want spread out raids that take hours but are more fair, then you do those. Personally, I think it is **** that you can donate coins and not get raid rewards. That is ridiculous if you ask me.
To give you an idea of what we do in my team, our weekday raids, which can be one or two a week, are on a rotating schedule where we give 12 hours to lock in 0 damage if you can't make the blitz portion (at the end of the 12 hours). Then, to accommodate family time on weekdays, we blitz 1 to 2 heroics and are done in 20 minutes for each one. I know this isn't perfect, but it works for our guild.
PS: In our most recent raids we have seen people who used to be in the bottom 50% move up to the top 25%. We have also seen late teen, mid-20's people move up to top 3. Their is something to be said about seeing your guild progress.
One last thing, as much as you hate blitzing heroics, we generally have a diverse top 5, sometimes even top 10, thanks to the lack of pre-attacking while the raid is open on non-blitz raids. You can't practice your attacks or retreat as easy, thus allowing for more RNG (if you will) among the scores.
There is a small meager band forming for MC 3 now actually. You underestimate the number of lower level players out there who want to be apart of something better, but you may be shielded from the fact when you force people to fill out an application. The model above is an inclusive model that does not segregate the big spenders and the casual players. It allows everyone to fellowship and share ideas and try out new things. Is it ideal, no. However it works for the way the game is set up.
Our guild has never used applications. Our less intense guild has never done more than a T6 and one of our teams as originally founded was almost completely devoid of whales; mostly moderate, low or no spend players. So we are absolutely very inclusive at an overall guild level.
I think at this point you are taking my attacks against he system and challenge of your opinion that the system is great as an attack against your current method of navigating the system.
Whether I underestimate the number of low level players wanting to join or not, the fact is that in order for you to make that work as a permanent strategy you guys will have to continually create new teams and shift players. So 6-9 months from now, are you guys really going to be running 8-9 teams consisting of over 400 players and planning to create more? If not, than where will the progressing worker bees go to get in on top 10 rewards once they build up their rosters? Can't we just fix the system to be better?
We run 16 guilds now without a problem, 5 of which do heroics. Just takes a little coordination and like minded people
@Opusone is apparently #winning
Hats off...
(Sorry I'm letting your cat outta the bag here... Luckily they are attacking the messenger or being stubborn to change... Your secret looks safe here)
Natural progresion... Playing as intended.
Lol
Impressive... I find myself getting confused keeping track of 2 full guilds and a much smaller third.
@JohnnySteelAlpha I should have directed my quote better. It was to be directed at team instinct of which several take your opinion but obviously you are not a member.
So you attacked your own guild member because his opinion is similar to team instinct? GEEEZZZ We have really go into your head
He is not my guild member. I think he is a member of Order 66 which looks to be the preeminent guild right now.
Well the point remains, you are going after him because he shares a view that some of TI holds. That's great