Jedi teams are a liability

Prev1
Jedi teams have a lot of interesting synergy and certainly some power characters but the meta has leaned heavily towards Sidious and Dooku and especially Sidious AND Dooku. They are both fairly farmable characters, unlike many of the top tier Jedi heroes and they are extremely prevalent in the top 100.

Count Dooku is an absolute nightmare to get rid of without stuns and that's not even considering having a jedi team. With a jedi team, trying to focus him down with flawless riposte/hindering press combo resulting in 35% stun and ability block (and force lightning at 90% stun chance) is a guaranteed loss since the one thing Jedi are really lacking is, you guessed it, stuns. Only the truly terrible Eeth Koth and only-whales-have-her-maxed Aayla Secura can deliver in that regard.

Sidious, being available in squad cantina shipments and granting no-restrictions crit and crit damage has made him the most prevalent leader in squad cantina by far. It also means the one thing the Jedi really have going for them, healing, is no longer reliable. While he does have a small health pool, his free 35% evasion against Jedi teams makes focusing a gauranteed loss probably half the time. Yet, it's dangerous to ignore him because he smacks one of your carries with a healing debuff and you lose anyway. The only thing that slightly balances this out is his 0 potency.

Point is, the prevalence of anti-jedi abilities in the current meta has rendered anything but support or healer jedi a liability. And some day when they buff scoundrels were going to have Cad Bane's everywhere and Darth Maul is on the up-and-up too resulting in team wipes because you brought Jedi. I guess this would be much more interesting if there were anti-Sith abilities to counteract this, but there isn't. Which means bringing an all Jedi team is almost always going to leave you at disadvantage.

Replies

  • Options
    I agree. I spent my early time with a Jedi healing team in Barriss, Lumi and JC. But when I come up against Sid in pvp they are pretty ineffective.

    I need to get the balls to drop Barriss but her bypass of the Sid heal block is kinda useful at saving a soul.
    If you are going to shoot, shoot, don't talk - Tuco Ramirez
  • Options
    100% agree with everything said here.
  • Options
    if there were anti-Sith abilities to counteract this, but there isn't.

    I believe incoming update will introduce some anti-Sith abilities. Otherwise a 7* Dooku will be so difficult to kill and we'll see many OP threads in the forum. So don't give up on your Jedi team yet...

  • Options
    Just wait for Yoda. I'm 95% sure he'll have anti Sith abilities.
    My name is cosmicturtle333, aka CT-333, aka Threes.
  • Options
    Jedi Luke will have the crit and self buff to obliterate dooku I'm sure
  • Triqui
    2790 posts Member
    Options
    The problem is the farmability. Qui Gon Jin is much better than Dooku or Sid, but he's harder to get. Jedi Knight Anakin is also great. So is Ayla Secura. All of them are chromium only or high level Hard Mode nodes.

    Sid-Dooku are everywhere. So is Kylo. The Dark Side is faster but not more powerful
  • Nonemo
    1656 posts Member
    Options
    OP, I'd try out Aayla Secura as leader. A big tenacity boost means those heal debuffs and stuns will have a hard time connecting. I rarely see Aayla as leader due to the obscurity of how potency/tenacity work in this game, and her Chromium exclusive status. But I'm convinced she'd be a big help to deal with the problems you describe.
  • TogrutaPower
    28 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Options
    Nonemo wrote: »
    OP, I'd try out Aayla Secura as leader. A big tenacity boost means those heal debuffs and stuns will have a hard time connecting. I rarely see Aayla as leader due to the obscurity of how potency/tenacity work in this game, and her Chromium exclusive status. But I'm convinced she'd be a big help to deal with the problems you describe.

    That was one of this issues I brought up, availability. There's pretty much no way you're going to have aayla at a competitive level without spending hundreds of dollars, and I limit myself to $20 a month. Her kit definitely has some foils to Sid/dooku but I've never actually seen her in squad arena or gw.
  • Options
    Jedi teams are great. You just need to spend money.
  • Baal
    602 posts Member
    Options
    Jedi, as a group, didn't do too good against Sith. Working as intended.
  • Options
    Baal wrote: »
    Jedi, as a group, didn't do too good against Sith. Working as intended.
    When we're talking about the competitive aspect of the game I don't think that's really relevant. And anyway, Obi-Wan killed Maul, Anakin killed Dooku, Mace defeated Sidious, Luke defeated Vader. I'd say they did just fine.
  • Options
    I'm hoping they make some really good Jedi with Yoda. I'm hoping they make a Jedi Luke and a Clone Wars Obi Wan too
  • Options
    Jedi teams focus on being tanks rather than doing damage. Had my easiest final battle in GW today because of a jedi team. 5* Old ben, 5* Barriss(lead), 7* Lumi, 6* Mace, 7* JC. All gear 7 lvl 61 It took about 10 mins to actually kill all of them off but I was in no danger whatsoever cept from Lumi who got heal blocked and killed off first and outside of them healing for roughly 1k each turn due to Barriss leader, I pretty much put it on auto battle and just made sure they didn't kill Old Ben till the last.
  • Baal
    602 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Options
    Baal wrote: »
    Jedi, as a group, didn't do too good against Sith. Working as intended.
    When we're talking about the competitive aspect of the game I don't think that's really relevant. And anyway, Obi-Wan killed Maul, Anakin killed Dooku, Mace defeated Sidious, Luke defeated Vader. I'd say they did just fine.

    It is relevant because Jedi have amazing synergy that works well against everything...Sith are the answer to a full Jedi team.

    Maul didn't die.
    Mace lost.
    Luke didn't defeat Vader, he tried to strike down the emporer in anger and failed, Anakin killed Vader in the same way Vader killed anakin. Anakin/vader was the one who defeated sidious.
  • Options
    Baal wrote: »
    Jedi, as a group, didn't do too good against Sith. Working as intended.

    From what I understand Jedi won and spent a lot longer in power than sith...eventually after loads of planning and finally catching them completely off guard with a huge betrayal from within...they live in power for like 20 years? Before one partially trained Jedi comes along and topples them...
  • Options
    Baal wrote: »
    Baal wrote: »
    Jedi, as a group, didn't do too good against Sith. Working as intended.
    When we're talking about the competitive aspect of the game I don't think that's really relevant. And anyway, Obi-Wan killed Maul, Anakin killed Dooku, Mace defeated Sidious, Luke defeated Vader. I'd say they did just fine.

    It is relevant because Jedi have amazing synergy that works well against everything...Sith are the answer to a full Jedi team.

    Maul didn't die.
    Mace lost.
    Luke didn't defeat Vader, he tried to strike down the emporer in anger and failed, Anakin killed Vader in the same way Vader killed anakin. Anakin/vader was the one who defeated sidious.

    That would be a valid point if Sith didn't also have Sith-based synergy. My point is, given the current state of the meta, only QGJ teams have any hope in hell of being competitive and he's a whales-only hero. Either tone down anti-jedi, or make the viable jedi heroes more accessible. We need some variety in the top 100.

    Fine, maul was resurrected by the sheer will of fan service, but he lost the duel. Mace also won a lightsaber duel and force contest against Sidious, he "lost" because he was betrayed. Luke in the height of his power defeated Vader in a lightsaber duel. I never said anything about Luke defeating the Emporer. The Jedi have no worse of a track record against Sith than the Sith do against Jedi. After all, in the words of Obi-Wan, "Sith are our specialty".
  • Options
    All Jedi teams do have a disadvatage on Sith, however creativity helps in this. Also Chron only being the best place to get Jedi I agree with you on. The Lotto on it is terrible too. Kit, QGJ, and Secura work well, but even myself who has spent a lot on packs I only have them at 4* each. Kits HP, Counter, and Bonus attacks make him ok. QGJ as a leader helps a lot, but his HP are terrible at 4*

    Thing is with Dooku even a 6* Max I can 2 hit him with Lum and JC. Sid is a 2 hit kill with the Jedi I run. Sure he evades. While it would be cool to have an all Jedi team. It is not viable in this current balance where Sid, Maul, and Dooku run all over.
  • Options
    Baal wrote: »
    Baal wrote: »
    Jedi, as a group, didn't do too good against Sith. Working as intended.
    When we're talking about the competitive aspect of the game I don't think that's really relevant. And anyway, Obi-Wan killed Maul, Anakin killed Dooku, Mace defeated Sidious, Luke defeated Vader. I'd say they did just fine.

    It is relevant because Jedi have amazing synergy that works well against everything...Sith are the answer to a full Jedi team.

    Maul didn't die.
    Mace lost.
    Luke didn't defeat Vader, he tried to strike down the emporer in anger and failed, Anakin killed Vader in the same way Vader killed anakin. Anakin/vader was the one who defeated sidious.

    That would be a valid point if Sith didn't also have Sith-based synergy. My point is, given the current state of the meta, only QGJ teams have any hope in hell of being competitive and he's a whales-only hero. Either tone down anti-jedi, or make the viable jedi heroes more accessible. We need some variety in the top 100.

    Fine, maul was resurrected by the sheer will of fan service, but he lost the duel. Mace also won a lightsaber duel and force contest against Sidious, he "lost" because he was betrayed. Luke in the height of his power defeated Vader in a lightsaber duel. I never said anything about Luke defeating the Emporer. The Jedi have no worse of a track record against Sith than the Sith do against Jedi. After all, in the words of Obi-Wan, "Sith are our specialty".

    There are plenty of good Jedi leaders. Luminara, Barriss, Anakin, and IMA are all fantastic. There are only 3 Sith with Sith leadership skills. This is without comparing the sheer number advantage of Jedis(14 most of any race by far) compared to Sith(5).
  • Wispsi
    255 posts Member
    edited January 2016
    Options
    So yeah in arena today against an equal powered opponent, managed to get down to 4 of my guys alive, 3 on full health and 1 on half against just a single full health Sid. Only the low health was a non Jedi...which was an issue apparently as Sid just turned around and wrecked my entire team without a thing I could do :( literally not a button different I could press, he dodged so much and healed enough on kills (which were the result unfortunately well aimed attacks) that I had to sit there and watch him just kill one after the other :(

    Ah well the dangers of running a mostly Jedi team...sometimes a Sid will just win on his own whilst you are completely unable to make damage stick to him lol. Very much not a fun experience.


    Every one of my characters were 6* max gear for 61.
  • Options
    I have only one Jedi in my Arena/GW team Lumi, cant help it as there is lack of strong characters on the light side for f2p like me. Rest are all dark side characters. I feel force is strong with them
  • Options
    Wispsi wrote: »
    So yeah in arena today against an equal powered opponent, managed to get down to 4 of my guys alive, 3 on full health and 1 on half against just a single full health Sid. Only the low health was a non Jedi...which was an issue apparently as Sid just turned around and wrecked my entire team without a thing I could do :( literally not a button different I could press, he dodged so much and healed enough on kills (which were the result unfortunately well aimed attacks) that I had to sit there and watch him just kill one after the other :(

    Ah well the dangers of running a mostly Jedi team...sometimes a Sid will just win on his own whilst you are completely unable to make damage stick to him lol. Very much not a fun experience.


    Every one of my characters were 6* max gear for 61.

    Lmfao, Sid definitely is a beast, that's it.
    You need to get one

  • Options
    Exactly the reason im saving up my cantina points currently at 2.1k and hope to add a new toon to my crit based team with sidious as lead. I get theirs going to be new toons, jedi ones that will obviously be strong against sith but my team is spread out so im not particular weak in one area thank goodness ;).
    Qui-Gon progress in cantina currently 4* gear lvl 7.
  • Options
    I have 3.2k cantina credits hoarded :open_mouth: Since for now I have unlocked Daka at 4* and being able to complete GW and stay in top 10 in Arena, I am holding against spending them. Waiting for the updates to come.
  • Options
    HaraLucas wrote: »
    Wispsi wrote: »
    So yeah in arena today against an equal powered opponent, managed to get down to 4 of my guys alive, 3 on full health and 1 on half against just a single full health Sid. Only the low health was a non Jedi...which was an issue apparently as Sid just turned around and wrecked my entire team without a thing I could do :( literally not a button different I could press, he dodged so much and healed enough on kills (which were the result unfortunately well aimed attacks) that I had to sit there and watch him just kill one after the other :(

    Ah well the dangers of running a mostly Jedi team...sometimes a Sid will just win on his own whilst you are completely unable to make damage stick to him lol. Very much not a fun experience.


    Every one of my characters were 6* max gear for 61.

    Lmfao, Sid definitely is a beast, that's it.
    You need to get one

    Well I have one but I don't use him out of principal on non dark side missions and will never let him be leader ever because look how that turned out!

    But yeah if personal taste wasn't an issue I would use him so much xD
  • Options
    Sid and Dooku can crush any Jedi team. Doesnt matter what the other 3 are lol.
  • Options
    Sid and Dooku can crush any Jedi team. Doesnt matter what the other 3 are lol.

    LOL.. Good luck with that.
  • Options
    My original team of Lumi JC and Eeth Koth used to do just fine against 99% of the Sid/Dooku teams. I rolled with Talia and Chewy then. They have a 15-20% advantage against Jedi.
  • Mizo
    172 posts Member
    Options
    When Yoda comes the tide will turn.
  • AdamW
    692 posts Member
    Options
    A lot of anti Jedi buffs in the game right now. Doesnt help that 70% of players run with anti Jedi characters either.
  • Options
    I use a full Jedi team with 3 Chromium characters; QGJ, Kit and Aayla. My team has good synergy and does well if I concentrate hard in PvP. Its difficult for me to climb high in my bracket due to all the Sids.

    The thing is tho I never feel cheated when I get beaten by them because I paid for my team and those players farmed theirs for hours.

    Technically Im the one who "cheated" so I just accept defeat when it comes.

    Also its the "Jedi" thing to do... Ammarit???? (Ok, lame joke. Ha ha)
Sign In or Register to comment.