Assaj was never a sith. She was merely a tool to sell that Dooku was actually the 'master'. She wasn't even trained in the ways of the sith, she had a bit of dark side training from Dooku and became his assassin.
That being said though, Maul was the same. He was never actually trained as a sith, just a weapon for the dark side to use before being cast aside. And yet he has the tag so who knows what factors contribute to who gets tagged as what in this game.
Assaj was never a sith. She was merely a tool to sell that Dooku was actually the 'master'. She wasn't even trained in the ways of the sith, she had a bit of dark side training from Dooku and became his assassin.
That being said though, Maul was the same. He was never actually trained as a sith, just a weapon for the dark side to use before being cast aside. And yet he has the tag so who knows what factors contribute to who gets tagged as what in this game.
Assaj was never a sith. She was merely a tool to sell that Dooku was actually the 'master'. She wasn't even trained in the ways of the sith, she had a bit of dark side training from Dooku and became his assassin.
That being said though, Maul was the same. He was never actually trained as a sith, just a weapon for the dark side to use before being cast aside. And yet he has the tag so who knows what factors contribute to who gets tagged as what in this game.
Swap "Maul" with "Savage" and i agree!
Even though Savage could count as a Sith, since Maul took him as Apprentice and trained him as Sith, however, there is the "rule of two" and there was already a rival due (Sidious and Dooku), but well ... for a short time, both duos claimed the title to be the true Siths ... (until sid visited Maul and Savage and assured them, they are not )
Left by design. The fixed payout times are the worst part of this game and makes it absolutely family-unfriendly.
Let's put this into perspective shall we. Ventress wasn't a sith. At all. She was merely a tool trained and utilized by count dooku and sidous. The rule of two states that there can only be two! In episode 1 Darth Maul WAS sidious' apprentice until he was killed. Between the events of episode 1 & 2, Dooku was made sidious' apprentice which then reinstated the rule of two.
Facts- Dooku taught her as his apprentice
-Asajj was not Sith when she started
-Sidious feared her power, more than Dooku's, Maul's and Savage's
-dooku intended to overthrow Sidious with her (Dark Disciple)
-In Dark Disciple she says she is a former Sith
-she knows far more of the dark side than all inquisitors combined
-Starwars.com labelled her sith for a year before retconning it once inquisitors appeared in Rebels
-she is educated in combating force lightning a sith secret Dooku said he would not teach savage
-to become a sith one has to be trained in the ways of the sith - filoni. Can anyone deny she was trained in sith methods of torture and power manipulation? The inquisitors never recieved the training she did
In conclusion, all evidence points to her being at the very least the Sith equivalent of a padawan. While the inquisitors are simply dark side adepts she has deep knowledge of the dark side. To the point where it is clear Dooku did not believe in or seek to follow the rule of two. Ingame I am fine with her not being a Sith, however to call her equal to the inquisitors or a dark jedi from the Expanded Universe is far too narrow for her. She was a Sith when Dooku was ordered to kill her. She was as powerful as Anakin after he turned and knew more of the dark side than darth vader did throughout the Revenge of the Sith and yet he gets the label immediatly where she is snubbed by fans despite all the facts.
I beg to differ on her being as powerful as Anakin. Maybe if you qualified it, as powerful as Anakin post limb loss, ie handicapped Anakin.
I stand by that statement due to the scene where Asajj overpowers both Anakin and Obi-wan simultaneously. Also, the fights with Dooku after she is betrayed by him. She fights on even ground with Dooku until he begins using force lightning.
My biggest problem with the argument that Asajj is not a Sith comes from the Rule of Two itself. It is not a law, it is a guideline that Sidious, Plaguies and all between him and Bane CHOOSE to adhere to in order acheive their ultimate goal. The Sith believe in power and fear and only use rules and law if it fits with their plan. Part of me believes Dooku is unique among Sith Lords. The only apprentice to have ever been taught force lightning. He wasnt just Sidious' apprentice he was a Sith Master. And as any true Master of a practice there is an inate desire to pass on ones teaching.
The reason the Rule of Two is so important is not because it allowed the Sith to survive in the shadows without internal conflict, but because the Jedi believed it was 100% correct. They believed it was infallible. If two there must be, then Asajj is the apprentice during the Majority of the clone wars and Dooku the master. Essential for Sidious to remain hidden. From the Jedi perspective she is Sith, and who better to give the label than a jedi? Once there would have been hundreds of sith and the labels of Darth or the number two did not determine their label. Why should one rule, conceived originallyy to convince the Jedi the Sith were extinct, determine the number of sith, especially when that rule must have abeen broken at its beginning. Bane made the rule right? Then told the jedi about it...So they would've executed him and an apprentice and believed the only two sith were dead. Meanwhile, another sith must have existed to keep the order alive. To me that is common sense.
I dont care if they change her tag in game but to deny she is Sith is naive. Previous quotes have more evidence I collected. I dare you to prove me wrong.
Assaj was never a sith. She was merely a tool to sell that Dooku was actually the 'master'. She wasn't even trained in the ways of the sith, she had a bit of dark side training from Dooku and became his assassin.
That being said though, Maul was the same. He was never actually trained as a sith, just a weapon for the dark side to use before being cast aside. And yet he has the tag so who knows what factors contribute to who gets tagged as what in this game.
ventress was a sith, she was trained by dooku to defeat sidious so he could be the next sith lord, Sidious knew she existed and tasked dooku with annihilating her before she could become powerful enough to defeat him (though she later becomes a jedi)
maul was the original apprentice to sidious who was thought dead till the clone wars
Plageuis himself acknowledged that all Sith Lords after Bane always kept in mind more than once apprentice to replace them. Ventress is a bit tricky. Dooku (Darth Tyrannus) was obviously the true apprentice of Palpatine after Maul "died". Throughout the history of the Sith, the apprentice would always keep an eye out for other apprentices for when they themselves became the master. Palgues's master had more than one apprentice himself as well in case he needed to replace one. The rule of two is more of a guideline that an absolute.
This being said, since Savage is considered a Sith due to him being Dooku's apprentice leans towards the idea that Ventress should be Sith as well. I guess the only argument against this was the Dooku was using Ventress as an assassin with the prospect of becoming his actual apprentice in the future. This is why Palpatine had him try to kill her.
Let's put this into perspective shall we. Ventress wasn't a sith. At all. She was merely a tool trained and utilized by count dooku and sidous. The rule of two states that there can only be two! In episode 1 Darth Maul WAS sidious' apprentice until he was killed. Between the events of episode 1 & 2, Dooku was made sidious' apprentice which then reinstated the rule of two.
Then how would you explain Savage? Sidious was already master with Dooku as apprentice. Ventriss was certainly a dark force user, maybe not technically a full Sith. But your logic is flawed.The rule of two was never taken as an absolute by moth Sith Lords.
Assaj was never a sith. She was merely a tool to sell that Dooku was actually the 'master'. She wasn't even trained in the ways of the sith, she had a bit of dark side training from Dooku and became his assassin.
That being said though, Maul was the same. He was never actually trained as a sith, just a weapon for the dark side to use before being cast aside. And yet he has the tag so who knows what factors contribute to who gets tagged as what in this game.
Maul was absolutely trained as a Sith. He was acknowledged by Sidious himself as his true apprentice.
The official star wars site says she wasn't a sith but Savage was. Simply as that.
ASAJJ VENTRESS
An assassin trained in the ways of the dark side by Count Dooku, Asajj Ventress yearned to be considered a true Sith, but such status wasn't allowed under the Sith's Rule of Two. Ventress fought with twin red-bladed lightsabers, and clashed with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker many times. But her destiny would not lie with the Sith. After Dooku rejected her as his apprentice and tried to kill her, Ventress returned to her roots as a Nightsister, made a living as a bounty hunter, and – in the strangest twist of all – rediscovered the way of the light that she’d rejected long ago as a Jedi Padawan.
The official star wars site says she wasn't a sith but Savage was. Simply as that.
ASAJJ VENTRESS
An assassin trained in the ways of the dark side by Count Dooku, Asajj Ventress yearned to be considered a true Sith, but such status wasn't allowed under the Sith's Rule of Two. Ventress fought with twin red-bladed lightsabers, and clashed with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker many times. But her destiny would not lie with the Sith. After Dooku rejected her as his apprentice and tried to kill her, Ventress returned to her roots as a Nightsister, made a living as a bounty hunter, and – in the strangest twist of all – rediscovered the way of the light that she’d rejected long ago as a Jedi Padawan.
Annnnnd when is anything in this game close to official...
Seriously
It makes sense for her to be considered sith. Sith is a title. Ahsoka has the title Jedi even though she was only a Padawan and was not yet a full Jedi. Think of Sith and Jedi as ways of life.... One being light side and other dark side of the same coin. The yin and yang.
And as long as Savage is considered Sith then so should she. Same circumstances.
The official star wars site says she wasn't a sith but Savage was. Simply as that.
ASAJJ VENTRESS
An assassin trained in the ways of the dark side by Count Dooku, Asajj Ventress yearned to be considered a true Sith, but such status wasn't allowed under the Sith's Rule of Two. Ventress fought with twin red-bladed lightsabers, and clashed with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker many times. But her destiny would not lie with the Sith. After Dooku rejected her as his apprentice and tried to kill her, Ventress returned to her roots as a Nightsister, made a living as a bounty hunter, and – in the strangest twist of all – rediscovered the way of the light that she’d rejected long ago as a Jedi Padawan.
Only problem with this is that that was changed about a year ago. It called her a Sith assassin/apprentice until the inquisitors popped up in rebels. Then they changed her "official" Star Wars page. Due to this change it calls into question the validity of the starwars.com description of Asajj. Retcons are distasteful and in her case creates plot holes for the book Dark Disciple where they blatently label her a former Sith.
However... Since clone wars is canon... It doesn't change the fact that she was a Sith Apprentice, trained by a Sith Lord, trained in the Sith Ways, to help kill her Master's master, to become a Sith. As is the way of the Sith.
For Savage it's easy because Maul took him as his apprentice. An argument could be made for Savage as a night sister/brother factions which is plausible.
However, Ventress is a little complicated. We could assume that her training under Dooku and flash back training as a Jedi are just internships to her true identity as a night sister with force abilities.
I think the key here is how long the character is associated with the role and how the role defines him/her. Therefore, Maul and Savage are both Sith whereas Ventress is a night sister with force abilities.
For Savage it's easy because Maul took him as his apprentice. An argument could be made for Savage as a night sister/brother factions which is plausible.
However, Ventress is a little complicated. We could assume that her training under Dooku and flash back training as a Jedi are just internships to her true identity as a night sister with force abilities.
I think the key here is how long the character is associated with the role and how the role defines him/her. Therefore, Maul and Savage are both Sith whereas Ventress is a night sister with force abilities.
Hmmm I like this way of thinking about it. Another!
For Savage it's easy because Maul took him as his apprentice. An argument could be made for Savage as a night sister/brother factions which is plausible.
However, Ventress is a little complicated. We could assume that her training under Dooku and flash back training as a Jedi are just internships to her true identity as a night sister with force abilities.
I think the key here is how long the character is associated with the role and how the role defines him/her. Therefore, Maul and Savage are both Sith whereas Ventress is a night sister with force abilities.
I believe savage is considered a sith is bc of how ruthless he was his first appearance he practically destroys all the battle droids and clones and practically defeats 2 jedi with a staff
For Savage it's easy because Maul took him as his apprentice. An argument could be made for Savage as a night sister/brother factions which is plausible.
However, Ventress is a little complicated. We could assume that her training under Dooku and flash back training as a Jedi are just internships to her true identity as a night sister with force abilities.
I think the key here is how long the character is associated with the role and how the role defines him/her. Therefore, Maul and Savage are both Sith whereas Ventress is a night sister with force abilities.
I believe savage is considered a sith is bc of how ruthless he was his first appearance he practically destroys all the battle droids and clones and practically defeats 2 jedi with a staff
I don't mean to be picky, but he DOES defeat two Jedi with just a staff. One of which is a master, as well as a squad of clones. The droids that got in his way were ripped apart as well.
Dark Disciple is canon. It is part of the Clone Wars tv show. It along with the story reels the Ahsoka novel and the Darth Maul comic comprize the Clone Wars Legacy project, which were stories planned for season 6&7 had Disney not cancelled the show. In Dark Disciple they call her a Sith multiple times. And since any content in a book is more canon than a description on starwars.com she is Sith. Plus all the other factors I mentioned previously.
I think we also have to factor in the time period the toon is in. For example we have farmer Luke, two different Palps, and two different Hans. There was a thread awhile ago that I remember reading and commenting on about if Asajj should have the bounty hunter or scoundrel tag, since she was a bounty hunter/scoundrel at one time.
If we look at he abilities and appearance, I think she should have Sith and Night Sister tags. It seems this version of her we have is from the heart of the Clone Wars, when she was still an assassin/apprentice to Dooku.
The official star wars site says she wasn't a sith but Savage was. Simply as that.
ASAJJ VENTRESS
An assassin trained in the ways of the dark side by Count Dooku, Asajj Ventress yearned to be considered a true Sith, but such status wasn't allowed under the Sith's Rule of Two. Ventress fought with twin red-bladed lightsabers, and clashed with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker many times. But her destiny would not lie with the Sith. After Dooku rejected her as his apprentice and tried to kill her, Ventress returned to her roots as a Nightsister, made a living as a bounty hunter, and – in the strangest twist of all – rediscovered the way of the light that she’d rejected long ago as a Jedi Padawan.
It appears to me that the site actually acknowledges that she was a sith apprentice of dooku's based on the bolded above. It only states she wasn't considered a full sith yet, not that she wasn't a sith apprentice. Also...
Retcons are distasteful and in her case creates plot holes for the book Dark Disciple where they blatently label her a former Sith.
Dark Disciple is a canon book that labeled her a former Sith. Both of these sources, the website and a canon book, indicate that she is more than deserving of the Sith tag. And it makes sense in terms of gameplay as it would open up more options for her as far as team viability goes.
+1 If they can give Savage Opress the Sith tag (despite being just a tool) and General Grievious the Droid tag (despite him being a living being, not a droid, a Kaleesh alien) they could take some liberty and make Asajj Ventress a Sith, l mean, she is evil, she has red lightsabers, uses the Dark Side of the Force and works under Dooku a Sith Lord, her master (as well as S.Opress, and he is labeled as a Sith in-game btw).
All discussion of whether she's a true Sith aside, the Sith label wouldn't really help her much. Her main problem is speed. Under Emp she'd gain more health and potency, under Vader she'd get better offense, and under Maul she'd gain more evasion. What she really needs is speed and TM gain to be a viable hero. Even speed-enhancing mods can only bump that up so far, and are better used on other heroes. Though perhaps if her leader speed bonus also applied to Sith she could be a viable Sith leader, as most Sith are rather slow.
Replies
That being said though, Maul was the same. He was never actually trained as a sith, just a weapon for the dark side to use before being cast aside. And yet he has the tag so who knows what factors contribute to who gets tagged as what in this game.
Assaj wasnt a sith true
but maul was
Even though Savage could count as a Sith, since Maul took him as Apprentice and trained him as Sith, however, there is the "rule of two" and there was already a rival due (Sidious and Dooku), but well ... for a short time, both duos claimed the title to be the true Siths ... (until sid visited Maul and Savage and assured them, they are not
The fixed payout times are the worst part of this game and makes it absolutely family-unfriendly.
In Game Name: E Chu Ta
I dont care if they change her tag in game but to deny she is Sith is naive. Previous quotes have more evidence I collected. I dare you to prove me wrong.
ventress was a sith, she was trained by dooku to defeat sidious so he could be the next sith lord, Sidious knew she existed and tasked dooku with annihilating her before she could become powerful enough to defeat him (though she later becomes a jedi)
maul was the original apprentice to sidious who was thought dead till the clone wars
This being said, since Savage is considered a Sith due to him being Dooku's apprentice leans towards the idea that Ventress should be Sith as well. I guess the only argument against this was the Dooku was using Ventress as an assassin with the prospect of becoming his actual apprentice in the future. This is why Palpatine had him try to kill her.
Then how would you explain Savage? Sidious was already master with Dooku as apprentice. Ventriss was certainly a dark force user, maybe not technically a full Sith. But your logic is flawed.The rule of two was never taken as an absolute by moth Sith Lords.
Maul was absolutely trained as a Sith. He was acknowledged by Sidious himself as his true apprentice.
ASAJJ VENTRESS
An assassin trained in the ways of the dark side by Count Dooku, Asajj Ventress yearned to be considered a true Sith, but such status wasn't allowed under the Sith's Rule of Two. Ventress fought with twin red-bladed lightsabers, and clashed with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker many times. But her destiny would not lie with the Sith. After Dooku rejected her as his apprentice and tried to kill her, Ventress returned to her roots as a Nightsister, made a living as a bounty hunter, and – in the strangest twist of all – rediscovered the way of the light that she’d rejected long ago as a Jedi Padawan.
Annnnnd when is anything in this game close to official...
Seriously
It makes sense for her to be considered sith. Sith is a title. Ahsoka has the title Jedi even though she was only a Padawan and was not yet a full Jedi. Think of Sith and Jedi as ways of life.... One being light side and other dark side of the same coin. The yin and yang.
And as long as Savage is considered Sith then so should she. Same circumstances.
Only problem with this is that that was changed about a year ago. It called her a Sith assassin/apprentice until the inquisitors popped up in rebels. Then they changed her "official" Star Wars page. Due to this change it calls into question the validity of the starwars.com description of Asajj. Retcons are distasteful and in her case creates plot holes for the book Dark Disciple where they blatently label her a former Sith.
You can say that again. Is her later life story still considered canon? The whole thing with Quinlan Vos and such.
Not if it was written before disney
True, unless/until Disney adopts it (e.g. Thrawn in Rebels). Non-Canon until it isn't
In Game Name: E Chu Ta
However, Ventress is a little complicated. We could assume that her training under Dooku and flash back training as a Jedi are just internships to her true identity as a night sister with force abilities.
I think the key here is how long the character is associated with the role and how the role defines him/her. Therefore, Maul and Savage are both Sith whereas Ventress is a night sister with force abilities.
Ha ya exactly this, gotta love the EU being just that until Disney needs something new.
Hmmm I like this way of thinking about it. Another!
I believe savage is considered a sith is bc of how ruthless he was his first appearance he practically destroys all the battle droids and clones and practically defeats 2 jedi with a staff
I don't mean to be picky, but he DOES defeat two Jedi with just a staff. One of which is a master, as well as a squad of clones. The droids that got in his way were ripped apart as well.
If we look at he abilities and appearance, I think she should have Sith and Night Sister tags. It seems this version of her we have is from the heart of the Clone Wars, when she was still an assassin/apprentice to Dooku.
It appears to me that the site actually acknowledges that she was a sith apprentice of dooku's based on the bolded above. It only states she wasn't considered a full sith yet, not that she wasn't a sith apprentice. Also...
Dark Disciple is a canon book that labeled her a former Sith. Both of these sources, the website and a canon book, indicate that she is more than deserving of the Sith tag. And it makes sense in terms of gameplay as it would open up more options for her as far as team viability goes.