The Poe problem (With Arena videos Fixed)
598 posts
February 4, 2016 6:37PM
edited February 2016
Let's take a look at Poe Dameron, the most popular tank in current meta. (Because it has never been done before!)
Many players on the forum believe he's fine at where he will be after the new patch arrives next week. More feel like he needs to be further adjusted.
The dev team (@EA_Jesse, @CG_JohnSalera Thanks for a wonderful update btw) adjusted Poe's chance to resist negative effects as well as lowering his chance to apply Expose when he uses his taunt. But many of us feel like dev really miss the mark on this one. It's not that he has high speed, or high resistance, or the chance to apply expose, is his guaranteed chance to reduce the opposite team's turn meter that makes him necessary to compete in top arena.
To be fair, let's compare to several other characters with the ability to taunt.
Stormtrooper: Chance to reduce other team's turn meter whenever he's damaged during taunt.
Han:Increases team's turn meter when he taunts and when he's damage. His unique has a chance to decrease opposing team's turn meter when he's damaged.
Chewie doesn't really fit into this discussion.
Unfortunately, the tanks mentioned above are quite useless because:
1 - Relatively low HP, couple with
2 - Relatively high damage in high end pvp teams.
3 - Slow to taunt
These slow tanks allows high damage team to focus fire on one target before they are taunted.
Then comes Poe.
Not only does Poe has high speed, but he's able to decrease 25% of enemy's turn meters. Combine this with high damage teams going against each other in top meta, we in the Line chat room call this situation the "Poe Coin Flip" Because it's really quite simple, the team with Poe taunting first pretty much won the game already. Now I am not saying it's game over whenever other team's Poe taunts first, but it is a rather rare scenario.
To prove my point, here are two videos, against the same team. First video shows the other Poe going first, second shows my Poe taunting first.
Video 1:
https://youtu.be/X7lmb827CIg
VIdeo 2:
https://youtu.be/TwAOH66z3Nw
As you can see, I have a lot of rooms for errors when my Poe taunts first (Old Ben missing on assist, auto target switch)
Poe Coin Flip exists, there's no denying it. If you don't have Poe in your pvp team you are putting yourself in great disadvantage.
Solution:
1. Change the guaranteed turn meter reduction to a certain %
This is probably the most reasonable change for Poe. A guaranteed effect (taunt), couple with chances to apply 2 debuffs. He will still be viable, probably still the best tank until the next character comes around.
2. Make turn meter reduction resistable
Not a direct nerf to Poe, but making it resistible will allow characters with high resistance (often slow characters) to do their thing before being destroyed by DPS.
I am not part of the dev team, so obviously I have no idea what kind of data they have to reach the decision to change Poe's resistance instead of his turn meter reduction, but as a soft launch player I have faith in CG to eventually make the right call on the character.
Many players on the forum believe he's fine at where he will be after the new patch arrives next week. More feel like he needs to be further adjusted.
The dev team (@EA_Jesse, @CG_JohnSalera Thanks for a wonderful update btw) adjusted Poe's chance to resist negative effects as well as lowering his chance to apply Expose when he uses his taunt. But many of us feel like dev really miss the mark on this one. It's not that he has high speed, or high resistance, or the chance to apply expose, is his guaranteed chance to reduce the opposite team's turn meter that makes him necessary to compete in top arena.
To be fair, let's compare to several other characters with the ability to taunt.
Stormtrooper: Chance to reduce other team's turn meter whenever he's damaged during taunt.
Han:Increases team's turn meter when he taunts and when he's damage. His unique has a chance to decrease opposing team's turn meter when he's damaged.
Chewie doesn't really fit into this discussion.
Unfortunately, the tanks mentioned above are quite useless because:
1 - Relatively low HP, couple with
2 - Relatively high damage in high end pvp teams.
3 - Slow to taunt
These slow tanks allows high damage team to focus fire on one target before they are taunted.
Then comes Poe.
Not only does Poe has high speed, but he's able to decrease 25% of enemy's turn meters. Combine this with high damage teams going against each other in top meta, we in the Line chat room call this situation the "Poe Coin Flip" Because it's really quite simple, the team with Poe taunting first pretty much won the game already. Now I am not saying it's game over whenever other team's Poe taunts first, but it is a rather rare scenario.
To prove my point, here are two videos, against the same team. First video shows the other Poe going first, second shows my Poe taunting first.
Video 1:
https://youtu.be/X7lmb827CIgVIdeo 2:
https://youtu.be/TwAOH66z3NwAs you can see, I have a lot of rooms for errors when my Poe taunts first (Old Ben missing on assist, auto target switch)
Poe Coin Flip exists, there's no denying it. If you don't have Poe in your pvp team you are putting yourself in great disadvantage.
Solution:
1. Change the guaranteed turn meter reduction to a certain %
This is probably the most reasonable change for Poe. A guaranteed effect (taunt), couple with chances to apply 2 debuffs. He will still be viable, probably still the best tank until the next character comes around.
2. Make turn meter reduction resistable
Not a direct nerf to Poe, but making it resistible will allow characters with high resistance (often slow characters) to do their thing before being destroyed by DPS.
I am not part of the dev team, so obviously I have no idea what kind of data they have to reach the decision to change Poe's resistance instead of his turn meter reduction, but as a soft launch player I have faith in CG to eventually make the right call on the character.
Post edited by warmonkey1024 on
0
- 60.9K General Discussion
- 9 Developer Q&A Archive
- 2.6K New Players
- 30.5K Arena and Character Strategy
- 4K Individual Events
- 4.6K Guild Events
- 4.6K PVP and Rivalry
- 50.1K Guild Recruitment
- 731 Art and Media
- 4.1K Off Topic
Howdy, Stranger!
Replies
And the next update comes and they do basically nothing. Plus they make it so everyone can find and bully any teams that don't have Poe.
So either they just Don't Get It and Never Will, or they want it this way. I've given up trying to make sense of it.
Well, be prepared of keeping it as a coin toss when you will be using a team like that vs a team like that. Nothing to do about it. Those nerves on Poe aren't for battles like this, but they are for other heroes against a Poe + paper team. Maybe it's more fun to try that out and win these battles 70% of the time instead of 50%. Be the smartie and not the dummie
It's only by continuing to talk about this issue that we'll have a shot at having additional changes made.
I personally don't think the turn meter bit's the problem; it's his speed. I firmly believe that if Poe did nothing at all except Taunt (no attacks, no nothing, just skipped every other activation), he'd STILL be competitive for Best Tank In The Game simply because he's the only tank who can get a Taunt off before your glass cannons get assassinated. That's a very powerful ability.
Most likely it's because tonnes of people have leveled and equipped Poe. To be honest, I think they will offend a large group of the population no matter what they choose to do.
That's a short term problem.
The percentage of population that do not play with Poe is dwindling, and will keep shrinking week by week.
It is known.
@CG_JohnSalera
I know, brilliant. Should I submit my resume?
As many as it will take to get the point across to the developers.
I don't complain, I offer another side to the whining.
People post incessantly about nerfing like they did with Barriss and FOTP, and all I'm reading is ignorance about the subject.
You're entitled to your opinion. But I don't see any ignorance here. Yes "the damage is too damned high", been saying that for a month. But Poe is also a problem because he amplifies the damage and makes it hard to exploit the "glass" part of glass cannons. They are both issues.
"Glass cannons" in this game, for the most part, aren't true glass cannons. We have Rey who is an all-star at survivability, damage, and speed. We have FOTP who has over 10k HP and still one shots anyone.
When you can't react because most of the best DPS are all tier one speed anyway, you still have a huge problem, Poe or not. You honestly have to run some amount of tier one dps on your team to be viable, especially if Poe is removed. Healer meta isn't a thing anymore, and without Poe it still wont be.
Poe is a utility option to beat glass cannons as well. He does help those teams too, sure, but it's a trade-off.
Like I said before, Poe offers slower characters a chance to be used in arena. Without him we'll see a turn 1 speed meta and much less variety.
Binch where. I said Binch where?
@Elyndria . How mature of you to misquote me. if you aren't participating constructively then I suggest you kindly $tfu and gtf0 and stop derailing this thread, It's unfair to the original poster.
I'm offering more of a constructive view than you are, surely.
LOL.. And who are you to decide what is "constructive participation" ?
The same could be said about this thread in regards to this forum, why start another thread on the same subject yet again? Is THAT constructive?
Don't get mad because someone decided to play in the sandbox by rules that you don't agree with.
Many people fail to understand this. It's not crying about a char you don't have or you don't know how to beat. Poe is f2p. It's not a problem to get him.
Some people is genuinely concerned about the viability of other options beyond current meta. They (we?) might be wrong, but it's not just a crying because they don't have the character. That *COULD* had been an issue with Barris (who was behind a paywall back then), but it's not with Poe.
The threads asking for a nerf is because he's OP. The 2 videos in this thread are clear. I don't think I can say a char that will move the needle so much as winning or losing Poe's coin toss in these videos.
But hey, the Devs have spoken, and Poe is ok. So let's all farm him, and let's make a top100 with 95 Poe in each server. I'm ok with it, I have given up trying to play underPoewered.
Sure Jan. ALL whales want to crush all f2p. Yeah sure. Because we definitely arent doing this to support the game or anything. Pffttt.
Again. You are just trying to push the whale vs f2p narrative which has got nothing to do with meta or broken characters that 1 hit kill. So stop doing this felicia. Just stop
2 times opponent went first
2 victories for me
Poe builds are beatable whether or not you use Poe yourself. On Defense not having him these days is a liability, on offense though frankly I don't give a rats you know what whose Poe goes first. Sure it is much easier if mine does. If theirs does, oh well I say suck it up buttercup and Vape that annoying SOB then go at their squad with a vengeance so fierce they sing about it from the outer Rim to Middle earth(Yes I just crossed fantasy lands) Sometimes I die trying, sometimes my vengeance is felt.
You're catching on. Those characters are the real problem, aren't they?
Did you even read my prior post?
Check the start date on this thread: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/5254/the-real-problems-with-the-current-meta-too-many-consecutive-attacks-and-too-much-damage
Yes, damage is too high relative to health. Poe makes it worse.
What tradeoff? If everyone is running glass cannons, as you've said, they'd be fools not to also run Poe. Now that everyone's teams will be visible, he will be on 90%+ of teams.
This is good design? This is the balancing we waited 2 months for?
That would be an example of an unconstructive post. You're either trolling or have no idea what you are talking about.