@Qeltar
Just as much as Daka in the first vid stunned my toons more than once. Just as that droids AoE nukes down half my team. I use Sid as leader for a reason. The 1 shot on Phasma from his side was as much as my 4* FotP.
My 4* glass cannon vs his 2 7* ones.
You can downplay it all you want but there is a time where you could just accept how it is and perhaps see it differently.
I would love to see you try that against actual synergized Poe teams.
Is anyone on your server running 7* Poe (L) , Ben , Leia, Rey, QGJ?
None of the teams I've seen in your vids are actual glass cannon/ Poe teams
Try running non-Poe vs teams with 3 of (pick what you want) Rey , FOTP, GS, IG-86, QGJ, Leia.
Have you ever had to fight against a QGJ, 86, GS, Poe + leader (again, pick Sid or Phasma)?
I think I MIGHT have been able to win that second time from a couple lucky rolls on RNG. But it's a much better example.
would you consider a team like the one you described above all 7*, but with fotp instead of ben? if so, i beat it on a regular basis without using poe. that player is usually rank 1 on my shard.
@Aluxendr
Yes I have had the honor to fight the Ben, Rey, QGJ, Poe, random comp. It wasn't easy and I remember I lost but that's not sololy Poe related. That's the old damage vs hp ratio discussion but also Old Ben.
Apparently people use other setups, prior to this droid team the same guy was running Leia, QGJ, Poe, FotP and Phasma (L). It was eventually beatable by switching some toons and use Asajj.
But I don't see the problem. That droid team deals the exact insane amount of damage as you show me in that vid.
Phasma gets shot for 11.5k and an assist hits for 2k > Phasma dead.
IG hits his AoE for more than 50% of sid and FotP hp which is 11k not considering the other two that got hit as well.
I see the same crazy numbers in my screen as in yours. But yeah old Ben is beast
So Old Ben, Rey, Sid, FotP, Leia, Poggle, Poe, FOO, Darth Maul, Geo, IG droids, Dooku, Phasma, QGJ and Daka are all OP and that's not only dmg wise. Skills as well. Where does it end? Fortunately we need 5 characters in a team and Poe is being used as much as Sid or Phasma or Lumi or Dooku or QGJ, we can catch em all but we can't select em all.
If Poe didn't reduce TM, and you had Poe V Poe, then Turn 7 would go, QGJ on either team could be used to open the other team, and it could turn into an actual **** contest over who lands the most damage first, rather than "this Poe won, advance to GO, instagib 2 characters".
Ben would not be able to set the other team's Poe (and any characters still alive) back an additional 65%
Basically, all Turn 7 characters on either team would get a roll on picking order, then turn 6 and so on.
Right now, T7 can get slapped back to 5 or less by Poe, and never even go. (That guys' Rey, for example)
The insane amounts of damage on T7 characters is another issue, I will readily agree. But not nearly as gamebreaking as that one ability, from that one skill.
@Aluxendr
Yes I have had the honor to fight the Ben, Rey, QGJ, Poe, random comp. It wasn't easy and I remember I lost but that's not sololy Poe related. That's the old damage vs hp ratio discussion but also Old Ben.
Apparently people use other setups, prior to this droid team the same guy was running Leia, QGJ, Poe, FotP and Phasma (L). It was eventually beatable by switching some toons and use Asajj.
But I don't see the problem. That droid team deals the exact insane amount of damage as you show me in that vid.
Phasma gets shot for 11.5k and an assist hits for 2k > Phasma dead.
IG hits his AoE for more than 50% of sid and FotP hp which is 11k not considering the other two that got hit as well.
I see the same crazy numbers in my screen as in yours. But yeah old Ben is beast
So Old Ben, Rey, Sid, FotP, Leia, Poggle, Poe, FOO, Darth Maul, Geo, IG droids, Dooku, Phasma, QGJ and Daka are all OP and that's not only dmg wise. Skills as well. Where does it end? Fortunately we need 5 characters in a team and Poe is being used as much as Sid or Phasma or Lumi or Dooku or QGJ, we can catch em all but we can't select em all.
Ok last attempt. Imagine you change 1 guy from Alexunder team, and replace him with, say, geo. Do you think he is able to repeat those vídeos? Pretty sure, yes. Now imagine you take out Poe, and replace him with anyone else. Do you feel it's the same? Csn he clean everything as he did in first video? If not... Why?
@Qeltar
Just as much as Daka in the first vid stunned my toons more than once. Just as that droids AoE nukes down half my team. I use Sid as leader for a reason. The 1 shot on Phasma from his side was as much as my 4* FotP.
My 4* glass cannon vs his 2 7* ones.
You can downplay it all you want but there is a time where you could just accept how it is and perhaps see it differently.
I would love to see you try that against actual synergized Poe teams.
Is anyone on your server running 7* Poe (L) , Ben , Leia, Rey, QGJ?
None of the teams I've seen in your vids are actual glass cannon/ Poe teams
Try running non-Poe vs teams with 3 of (pick what you want) Rey , FOTP, GS, IG-86, QGJ, Leia.
Have you ever had to fight against a QGJ, 86, GS, Poe + leader (again, pick Sid or Phasma)?
I think I MIGHT have been able to win that second time from a couple lucky rolls on RNG. But it's a much better example.
would you consider a team like the one you described above all 7*, but with fotp instead of ben? if so, i beat it on a regular basis without using poe. that player is usually rank 1 on my shard.
What team? Interested to know.
Believe it or not, FOTP while broken (until they fix him in the update) isn't nearly as dangerous as that triple-assist Phasma team I listed.
Also, I'm not saying the metric I'm using is unbeatable. We all know ways to counter it.
But consider this: while you beat that team, say, 60% of the time when Rey doesn't pop first, crit lucky, and bash someones head in for 16k first turn and everything goes smooth, the person who plays that team will beat yours
every
single
time
I have yet to meet a non-Poe team who I don't destroy vs AI.
@Aluxendr - I was literally laughing while watching the first fight in your video. That is absolutely, unbelievably insane. There is no possible way CG cannot know that this is happening, so I must conclude that this how they want it to be. Either that or their game designers and QA are completely inept. I prefer not to believe that.
If I see one more dev go on about how much data they are collecting and how they have so much analysis going on, I will probably start laughing again. Your video says it all.
Honestly, my first instinct after watching that was to think I might as well just quit because there's absolutely no way I could ever compete with a team such as yours. Like, ever. Like, you would win 95% of the time against anything I could throw at you. Poe just magnifies the madness.
Thanks for that.
I've been touting that the turn meter reduction is the main culprit for weeks, and no one listens.
Trust me, some of us listen. And even raise the flag as well. Poe is a living Time Walk, and that's a problem. If CG think it's ok, fine for me. Fortunstely he is a f2p timewalk
One random vid suddenly proves everything and mine, showing the exact same fights and damage numbers is suddenly discarded.
Your video does not show the exact same fight. That why Aluxendr posted his.
You seem to have missed the part where I actually agreed to try your team composition against a Poe/Poggle team and got killed. Just as my Phasma-led team gets killed by these Poe/DPS monsters. I suppose I should ignore my own experiences in favor of your lucky win?
@Aluxendr
Yes I have had the honor to fight the Ben, Rey, QGJ, Poe, random comp. It wasn't easy and I remember I lost but that's not sololy Poe related. That's the old damage vs hp ratio discussion but also Old Ben.
Apparently people use other setups, prior to this droid team the same guy was running Leia, QGJ, Poe, FotP and Phasma (L). It was eventually beatable by switching some toons and use Asajj.
But I don't see the problem. That droid team deals the exact insane amount of damage as you show me in that vid.
Phasma gets shot for 11.5k and an assist hits for 2k > Phasma dead.
IG hits his AoE for more than 50% of sid and FotP hp which is 11k not considering the other two that got hit as well.
I see the same crazy numbers in my screen as in yours. But yeah old Ben is beast
So Old Ben, Rey, Sid, FotP, Leia, Poggle, Poe, FOO, Darth Maul, Geo, IG droids, Dooku, Phasma, QGJ and Daka are all OP and that's not only dmg wise. Skills as well. Where does it end? Fortunately we need 5 characters in a team and Poe is being used as much as Sid or Phasma or Lumi or Dooku or QGJ, we can catch em all but we can't select em all.
Ok last attempt. Imagine you change 1 guy from Alexunder team, and replace him with, say, geo. Do you think he is able to repeat those vídeos? Pretty sure, yes. Now imagine you take out Poe, and replace him with anyone else. Do you feel it's the same? Csn he clean everything as he did in first video? If not... Why?
I have a 7* GS. I've considered using him instead of Ben, just to be an ****.
@Qeltar
Just as much as Daka in the first vid stunned my toons more than once. Just as that droids AoE nukes down half my team. I use Sid as leader for a reason. The 1 shot on Phasma from his side was as much as my 4* FotP.
My 4* glass cannon vs his 2 7* ones.
You can downplay it all you want but there is a time where you could just accept how it is and perhaps see it differently.
I would love to see you try that against actual synergized Poe teams.
Is anyone on your server running 7* Poe (L) , Ben , Leia, Rey, QGJ?
None of the teams I've seen in your vids are actual glass cannon/ Poe teams
Try running non-Poe vs teams with 3 of (pick what you want) Rey , FOTP, GS, IG-86, QGJ, Leia.
Have you ever had to fight against a QGJ, 86, GS, Poe + leader (again, pick Sid or Phasma)?
I think I MIGHT have been able to win that second time from a couple lucky rolls on RNG. But it's a much better example.
would you consider a team like the one you described above all 7*, but with fotp instead of ben? if so, i beat it on a regular basis without using poe. that player is usually rank 1 on my shard.
What team? Interested to know.
Believe it or not, FOTP while broken (until they fix him in the update) isn't nearly as dangerous as that triple-assist Phasma team I listed.
Also, I'm not saying the metric I'm using is unbeatable. We all know ways to counter it.
But consider this: while you beat that team, say, 60% of the time when Rey doesn't pop first, crit lucky, and bash someones head in for 16k first turn and everything goes smooth, the person who plays that team will beat yours
every
single
time
I have yet to meet a non-Poe team who I don't destroy vs AI.
the first fight in this thread is the team i'm referring to. there's no old ben on this team...fotp is there instead. ben is nice because of his ability block, which would effectively nullify my team's ability to counter. fotp is dangerous to me because of his triple tap (soon to be only double). my team can't hold rank on ai, btw. it's just great when used by a player. https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9667/non-definitive-poe-counter/p1
@Qeltar
Just as much as Daka in the first vid stunned my toons more than once. Just as that droids AoE nukes down half my team. I use Sid as leader for a reason. The 1 shot on Phasma from his side was as much as my 4* FotP.
My 4* glass cannon vs his 2 7* ones.
You can downplay it all you want but there is a time where you could just accept how it is and perhaps see it differently.
I would love to see you try that against actual synergized Poe teams.
Is anyone on your server running 7* Poe (L) , Ben , Leia, Rey, QGJ?
None of the teams I've seen in your vids are actual glass cannon/ Poe teams
Try running non-Poe vs teams with 3 of (pick what you want) Rey , FOTP, GS, IG-86, QGJ, Leia.
Have you ever had to fight against a QGJ, 86, GS, Poe + leader (again, pick Sid or Phasma)?
I think I MIGHT have been able to win that second time from a couple lucky rolls on RNG. But it's a much better example.
would you consider a team like the one you described above all 7*, but with fotp instead of ben? if so, i beat it on a regular basis without using poe. that player is usually rank 1 on my shard.
What team? Interested to know.
Believe it or not, FOTP while broken (until they fix him in the update) isn't nearly as dangerous as that triple-assist Phasma team I listed.
Also, I'm not saying the metric I'm using is unbeatable. We all know ways to counter it.
But consider this: while you beat that team, say, 60% of the time when Rey doesn't pop first, crit lucky, and bash someones head in for 16k first turn and everything goes smooth, the person who plays that team will beat yours
every
single
time
I have yet to meet a non-Poe team who I don't destroy vs AI.
the first fight in this thread is the team i'm referring to. there's no old ben on this team...fotp is there instead. ben is nice because of his ability block, which would effectively nullify my team's ability to counter. fotp is dangerous to me because of his triple tap (soon to be only double). my team can't hold rank on ai, btw. it's just great when used by a player. https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9667/non-definitive-poe-counter/p1
Ahhh yeah.
I'd actually love to see how that team plays out that fight.
I'll give it to you though, thats a pretty ingenious synergy to counter.
@Qeltar
Just as much as Daka in the first vid stunned my toons more than once. Just as that droids AoE nukes down half my team. I use Sid as leader for a reason. The 1 shot on Phasma from his side was as much as my 4* FotP.
My 4* glass cannon vs his 2 7* ones.
You can downplay it all you want but there is a time where you could just accept how it is and perhaps see it differently.
I would love to see you try that against actual synergized Poe teams.
Is anyone on your server running 7* Poe (L) , Ben , Leia, Rey, QGJ?
None of the teams I've seen in your vids are actual glass cannon/ Poe teams
Try running non-Poe vs teams with 3 of (pick what you want) Rey , FOTP, GS, IG-86, QGJ, Leia.
Have you ever had to fight against a QGJ, 86, GS, Poe + leader (again, pick Sid or Phasma)?
I think I MIGHT have been able to win that second time from a couple lucky rolls on RNG. But it's a much better example.
would you consider a team like the one you described above all 7*, but with fotp instead of ben? if so, i beat it on a regular basis without using poe. that player is usually rank 1 on my shard.
What team? Interested to know.
Believe it or not, FOTP while broken (until they fix him in the update) isn't nearly as dangerous as that triple-assist Phasma team I listed.
Also, I'm not saying the metric I'm using is unbeatable. We all know ways to counter it.
But consider this: while you beat that team, say, 60% of the time when Rey doesn't pop first, crit lucky, and bash someones head in for 16k first turn and everything goes smooth, the person who plays that team will beat yours
every
single
time
I have yet to meet a non-Poe team who I don't destroy vs AI.
the first fight in this thread is the team i'm referring to. there's no old ben on this team...fotp is there instead. ben is nice because of his ability block, which would effectively nullify my team's ability to counter. fotp is dangerous to me because of his triple tap (soon to be only double). my team can't hold rank on ai, btw. it's just great when used by a player. https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9667/non-definitive-poe-counter/p1
Ahhh yeah.
I'd actually love to see how that team plays out that fight.
I'll give it to you though, thats a pretty ingenious synergy to counter.
yeah, i'm able to consistently beat the guy, even if his poe goes first. when my dooku goes before his poe, it's a guaranteed win since i can neuter the assist from qgj off the bat.
even if i don't use poe...i honestly like how he is now because it presents a fun challenge for me. it's also easy if people just bandwagon and drop poe into any team they think will work (usually, it won't), which happens. anyhow, no complaints from me about poe. i will say however...i'm super jealous of anyone who has such an awesome team with 7* qgj, leia, old ben, fotp, rey, because i don't have the patience nor the cojones to gamble on chromium packs haha
@Qeltar
Just as much as Daka in the first vid stunned my toons more than once. Just as that droids AoE nukes down half my team. I use Sid as leader for a reason. The 1 shot on Phasma from his side was as much as my 4* FotP.
My 4* glass cannon vs his 2 7* ones.
You can downplay it all you want but there is a time where you could just accept how it is and perhaps see it differently.
I would love to see you try that against actual synergized Poe teams.
Is anyone on your server running 7* Poe (L) , Ben , Leia, Rey, QGJ?
None of the teams I've seen in your vids are actual glass cannon/ Poe teams
Try running non-Poe vs teams with 3 of (pick what you want) Rey , FOTP, GS, IG-86, QGJ, Leia.
Have you ever had to fight against a QGJ, 86, GS, Poe + leader (again, pick Sid or Phasma)?
I think I MIGHT have been able to win that second time from a couple lucky rolls on RNG. But it's a much better example.
would you consider a team like the one you described above all 7*, but with fotp instead of ben? if so, i beat it on a regular basis without using poe. that player is usually rank 1 on my shard.
What team? Interested to know.
Believe it or not, FOTP while broken (until they fix him in the update) isn't nearly as dangerous as that triple-assist Phasma team I listed.
Also, I'm not saying the metric I'm using is unbeatable. We all know ways to counter it.
But consider this: while you beat that team, say, 60% of the time when Rey doesn't pop first, crit lucky, and bash someones head in for 16k first turn and everything goes smooth, the person who plays that team will beat yours
every
single
time
I have yet to meet a non-Poe team who I don't destroy vs AI.
the first fight in this thread is the team i'm referring to. there's no old ben on this team...fotp is there instead. ben is nice because of his ability block, which would effectively nullify my team's ability to counter. fotp is dangerous to me because of his triple tap (soon to be only double). my team can't hold rank on ai, btw. it's just great when used by a player. https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9667/non-definitive-poe-counter/p1
Ahhh yeah.
I'd actually love to see how that team plays out that fight.
I'll give it to you though, thats a pretty ingenious synergy to counter.
yeah, i'm able to consistently beat the guy, even if his poe goes first. when my dooku goes before his poe, it's a guaranteed win since i can neuter the assist from qgj off the bat.
even if i don't use poe...i honestly like how he is now because it presents a fun challenge for me. it's also easy if people just bandwagon and drop poe into any team they think will work (usually, it won't), which happens. anyhow, no complaints from me about poe. i will say however...i'm super jealous of anyone who has such an awesome team with 7* qgj, leia, old ben, fotp, rey, because i don't have the patience nor the cojones to gamble on chromium packs haha
Hey man, dat shard shop.
I'm actually looking at changing my lineup post-patch. I want to try to find something that is painful to play against when it's on AI defense, and good on offense.
It's hard to see the effects of the patch when many of the strong teams use Poe as well as FOTP that are both receiving minor nerfs. These nerfs both mean that there will be slightly lessdamage dealt turn 1 (less expose, easier to take out FOTP) which might help speedteams without Poe. That said, the "normal" teams wont be that much better off after these changes.
It's hard to see the effects of the patch when many of the strong teams use Poe as well as FOTP that are both receiving minor nerfs. These nerfs both mean that there will be slightly lessdamage dealt turn 1 (less expose, easier to take out FOTP) which might help speedteams without Poe. That said, the "normal" teams wont be that much better off after these changes.
Am I the only one to believe FOTP is not being nerfed? Sure, his hp will go down, but his insane damage will go even higher.
I understand how lower level players struggle in arena play when Poe is present. He presents a unique challenge. However, opposing teams with him are just as beatable as without, whether you use your own Poe or not.
The real issue is the whole arena format. One round, where RNG plays a huge factor in the outcome, and pathetically bad AI. What does that leave us? The current high DPS meta. We really need a whole new arena format.
Keep in mind, this is just one small component of the game. Devs I'm sure factor in more than just pvp when considering character balance and overall gameplay.
Just please stop whining about Poe already. He IS NOT the problem.
People will always voice their opinions about things that they are dissatisfied with. Poe just takes the majority of the heat because he promotes the current speed/damage meta the most.
But you're right, the issue is not Poe. Removing Poe entirely from the game does very little to diversify team compositions and promote a competitive game. It's the underlying issue of speed and damage output that needs to be fixed.
Unfortunately the developers seem oblivious to this.
You know what might contribute to the current meta? The fact that high DPS teams are universal. When you know next to nothing about the opposing team, it is logical to send in a "foolproof" squad, instead of risking countering something that isn't there. The visible arena teams might change that. Or maybe not, it is just a thought...
I disagree. All the teams without Poe are beatable with various team builds and styles. With Poe only statistically winnable strategy is to use a Poe of your own. I finish top 5 and sub Poe in / out as I face the cheap Poe exploit teams. Now I'm thinking this will be lessened based on how often the Expose lands and if he still resists every heal block.
You know what might contribute to the current meta? The fact that high DPS teams are universal. When you know next to nothing about the opposing team, it is logical to send in a "foolproof" squad, instead of risking countering something that isn't there. The visible arena teams might change that. Or maybe not, it is just a thought...
It won't change anything, at least in the top tier of competitive players. I'm a part of Team Instinct, a guild which has some of the biggest spenders in the game at the top ranks in Arena and a lot of our members have access to a 7* version of every character in the game. I'm pretty sure that our guild as a whole has tested more team compositions than the developers as a whole. There is no counter to the high speed / damage meta aside from creating another composition of high speed / damage characters.
Even the tankiest counter attack characters in the game get easily taken out by the current top damage compositions.
That's why removing or nerfing Poe won't do anything either. Poe will just be replaced by the next most viable team composition, most likely a team of 5 high damage tier 1/2 speed characters who can still kill 1-2 of your characters before you get a chance to act.
SWGOH is currently an RNG simulator, not a turn-based strategy game.
Of course I am not a Problem. I am the most dominant of all StarWars characters of all time. Who else has single handedly blown up a planet with a tiny fighter jet? The only problem is with those players who refuse to bow down and make me the center of their team.
Thank You For Making This Thread We Very Much Needed A Thread To Talk About Poe Because There Were None On The Forum Including The Long Stickied Thread Started By The Forum Admin.
Thank You For Making This Thread We Very Much Needed A Thread To Talk About Poe Because There Were None On The Forum Including The Long Stickied Thread Started By The Forum Admin.
Can you post a link for that.. I am too lazy to look for it.
The real problem is the Coruscant Underworld Police. Poe pales in comparison to the mighty CUP. Just yesterday I faced a 7* CUP in the arena and he destroyed me with his stun and offense down. I underestimated his power and didn't target him until it was too late. Everyone is focused on Poe but CUP is unreal. My offense was all the way down and all my characters were stunned. I was defenseless and offenseless. It was horrible.
Thank You For Making This Thread We Very Much Needed A Thread To Talk About Poe Because There Were None On The Forum Including The Long Stickied Thread Started By The Forum Admin.
Yet, like a bug drawn to a bug zapper, you just had to read and comment.
A Poe thread attracts a lot more attention than the subject that is the real issue.
Actually, I haven't seen any other pro-Poe posts, so relax people.
Despite the tongue-in-cheek title, the intent of this post is not to advocate for or against a nerf necessarily. If current trends are any indication of future behavior (they usually are), then the Poe problem won't be leaving the threads here any time soon. What I'd like to advocate for is a way to discuss and look at this issue that would make the forums and related Poe threads so much easier to stomach when visiting.
A simple suggestion: discuss the topic using the words "I" "me" and "mine"
If you'll indulge me for a bit, I'll elaborate.
Many of those who are calling for a nerf are some of the OGs of the game - players who are on the soft launch server or day 1 hard launch servers. In these servers, there is a high concentration of whales, and players here have had the longest amount of time to develop their rosters. Given these two factors, a huge number of players on these servers have access to the creme de la creme Poe+DPS compositions.
For them, the Poe problem is very real and impacts their PvP experience in a very negative way. That Poe has stagnated the game at the top of the ladders for these servers (yes, I know it's not actually a separate physical server - hold your semantic little tongue, sir/madam) is not really disputable.
That being said, The players who fall into the aforementioned category make up an minuscule fraction of the overall player base. Indeed, all of us on the forums combined represent the tiniest fraction of the players out there.
If you fall into this category, my request is that you try rephrasing your concerns. Instead of "Poe breaks the game, obviously.", try something along the lines of "On my server (shard/ladder/whatever), the proliferation of Poe+DPS has made PvP much less enjoyable for me."
The first is a statement that invalidates any other opinion and invites an inflammatory response from those that are not playing on those servers and do not share the same experience with Poe. The second is a statement of subjective fact that cannot be argued and invites me to empathize with your experience rather than fire back in order to simply assert my right to feel the way I feel.
And I do empathize. Many of the people I talk with in Line fall into the aforementioned category and the realities of their day-to-day experience are clear to me. I do not dispute them.
Now let me offer my experience.
On my server, the population rushed to build Phasma and largely ignored Poe, instead focusing on Daka from cantina shipments. I see more Dakas than Poes at the top tiers. This is not because I am on a "n00b" server - I started 2 days after hard launch. All of the top tier players are at level 70 and have had time to develop strong rosters.
There are maybe 6-7 teams sporting Poe in the top 20 right now. My server has had plenty of time to develop Poe as a weapon and has chosen not to. On my server, there are fewer whales to contend with than on the soft launch/day 1 servers, so my experience is very different. I have Poe (just 7*'d him), and I fight against the other top Poe players on a daily basis.
When I fight the two whale teams that have Poe, my own Poe give me at least a chance to stand up to "firepower of that magnitude". I run Sid/Poe/Poggle/Lumi/GS all 7*, lvl 70, and fully geared so don't tell me "when I grow up I'll understand" - that's an extremely solid team while not being the optimal chromium lineup. Even when my Poe goes first I'm not guaranteed a win, but I'm pleased that I have a weapon that allows me a puncher's chance.
Against the other (again mostly 5x7* lineups with synergy) Poe users, their Poe going first does not determine the match - it merely gives them an advantage. My Poe going first doesn't necessarily seal the match either; with a few lucky crits and the AI targeting the right toons at the right time I can still lose. Teams without Poe knock me out of the #1 spot on a regular basis, and they tend to run similar compositions to what @JohnnySteelAlpha detailed so well in another thread. There are a few common builds, but no cookie cutter builds adopted by all. And they're all competitive up to rank 1.
So, given the fact that my server was formed very close to hard launch, it stands to reason that many are having the same experience with Poe that I am. We all don't see the need to have him, and those that do do not enjoy an unbreakable edge despite having powerful teams. I talk to these people on my Line group as well. For me, Poe actually represents greater team diversity. For me, Poe makes PvP more enjoyable, not less.
So what's the net of all this? I've been rambling for a while, my apologies.
Regardless of what your personal experiences may be with Poe, none of us has access to enough information about the state of the game and the experiences of top tier players (let alone mid-tier) across enough servers to be able to state with any legitimate objectivity what the "right" thing to do about Poe is for the entirety of the player base. Any statement to the contrary is myopic and eminently refutable.
So you want me to believe that "Poe breaks the game"? Sorry, never going to happen. It's not a fact. You don't have the ability to make that assertion for anyone but yourself and the statistically insignificant group of players you socially interact with.
You want me to believe that "Poe breaks the game for you and those you communicate with closely"? I can get behind that 100%, and I feel for you. I really do.
Conversely, I don't expect you to believe that "Poe isn't a problem". I can't make that statement with any veracity.
But if I tell you that "Poe isn't a problem for me, and in fact makes the game at the top tiers for mine and at least a few other well-developed servers more fun!", I hope you at least attempt to look outside your own meta (because it is yours, not everyone's) and realize that when you change certain variables by server, the proliferation of Poe isn't an eventuality for groups outside of your own. He's just another great toon.
It's insulting to speak on high and pretend you know what's best for the entire game, when none of us has enough data to make that assertion empirically. I've seen this from people who both support and oppose a stronger Poe nerf.
Whichever camp you fall into - there's simply no excuse for Poe manners.
Replies
would you consider a team like the one you described above all 7*, but with fotp instead of ben? if so, i beat it on a regular basis without using poe. that player is usually rank 1 on my shard.
If Poe didn't reduce TM, and you had Poe V Poe, then Turn 7 would go, QGJ on either team could be used to open the other team, and it could turn into an actual **** contest over who lands the most damage first, rather than "this Poe won, advance to GO, instagib 2 characters".
Ben would not be able to set the other team's Poe (and any characters still alive) back an additional 65%
Basically, all Turn 7 characters on either team would get a roll on picking order, then turn 6 and so on.
Right now, T7 can get slapped back to 5 or less by Poe, and never even go. (That guys' Rey, for example)
The insane amounts of damage on T7 characters is another issue, I will readily agree. But not nearly as gamebreaking as that one ability, from that one skill.
Ok last attempt. Imagine you change 1 guy from Alexunder team, and replace him with, say, geo. Do you think he is able to repeat those vídeos? Pretty sure, yes. Now imagine you take out Poe, and replace him with anyone else. Do you feel it's the same? Csn he clean everything as he did in first video? If not... Why?
What team? Interested to know.
Believe it or not, FOTP while broken (until they fix him in the update) isn't nearly as dangerous as that triple-assist Phasma team I listed.
Also, I'm not saying the metric I'm using is unbeatable. We all know ways to counter it.
But consider this: while you beat that team, say, 60% of the time when Rey doesn't pop first, crit lucky, and bash someones head in for 16k first turn and everything goes smooth, the person who plays that team will beat yours
every
single
time
I have yet to meet a non-Poe team who I don't destroy vs AI.
Trust me, some of us listen. And even raise the flag as well. Poe is a living Time Walk, and that's a problem. If CG think it's ok, fine for me. Fortunstely he is a f2p timewalk
(I'd use Old Ben too if I had him, probably. I spend on the game but not chrome packs.)
Your video does not show the exact same fight. That why Aluxendr posted his.
You seem to have missed the part where I actually agreed to try your team composition against a Poe/Poggle team and got killed. Just as my Phasma-led team gets killed by these Poe/DPS monsters. I suppose I should ignore my own experiences in favor of your lucky win?
I have a 7* GS. I've considered using him instead of Ben, just to be an ****.
the first fight in this thread is the team i'm referring to. there's no old ben on this team...fotp is there instead. ben is nice because of his ability block, which would effectively nullify my team's ability to counter. fotp is dangerous to me because of his triple tap (soon to be only double). my team can't hold rank on ai, btw. it's just great when used by a player.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/9667/non-definitive-poe-counter/p1
Ahhh yeah.
I'd actually love to see how that team plays out that fight.
I'll give it to you though, thats a pretty ingenious synergy to counter.
yeah, i'm able to consistently beat the guy, even if his poe goes first. when my dooku goes before his poe, it's a guaranteed win since i can neuter the assist from qgj off the bat.
even if i don't use poe...i honestly like how he is now because it presents a fun challenge for me. it's also easy if people just bandwagon and drop poe into any team they think will work (usually, it won't), which happens. anyhow, no complaints from me about poe. i will say however...i'm super jealous of anyone who has such an awesome team with 7* qgj, leia, old ben, fotp, rey, because i don't have the patience nor the cojones to gamble on chromium packs haha
Hey man, dat shard shop.
I'm actually looking at changing my lineup post-patch. I want to try to find something that is painful to play against when it's on AI defense, and good on offense.
Am I the only one to believe FOTP is not being nerfed? Sure, his hp will go down, but his insane damage will go even higher.
The real issue is the whole arena format. One round, where RNG plays a huge factor in the outcome, and pathetically bad AI. What does that leave us? The current high DPS meta. We really need a whole new arena format.
Keep in mind, this is just one small component of the game. Devs I'm sure factor in more than just pvp when considering character balance and overall gameplay.
Just please stop whining about Poe already. He IS NOT the problem.
$0.02
But you're right, the issue is not Poe. Removing Poe entirely from the game does very little to diversify team compositions and promote a competitive game. It's the underlying issue of speed and damage output that needs to be fixed.
Unfortunately the developers seem oblivious to this.
It won't change anything, at least in the top tier of competitive players. I'm a part of Team Instinct, a guild which has some of the biggest spenders in the game at the top ranks in Arena and a lot of our members have access to a 7* version of every character in the game. I'm pretty sure that our guild as a whole has tested more team compositions than the developers as a whole. There is no counter to the high speed / damage meta aside from creating another composition of high speed / damage characters.
Even the tankiest counter attack characters in the game get easily taken out by the current top damage compositions.
That's why removing or nerfing Poe won't do anything either. Poe will just be replaced by the next most viable team composition, most likely a team of 5 high damage tier 1/2 speed characters who can still kill 1-2 of your characters before you get a chance to act.
SWGOH is currently an RNG simulator, not a turn-based strategy game.
Can you post a link for that.. I am too lazy to look for it.
Yet, like a bug drawn to a bug zapper, you just had to read and comment.
A Poe thread attracts a lot more attention than the subject that is the real issue.
Actually, I haven't seen any other pro-Poe posts, so relax people.
A simple suggestion: discuss the topic using the words "I" "me" and "mine"
If you'll indulge me for a bit, I'll elaborate.
Many of those who are calling for a nerf are some of the OGs of the game - players who are on the soft launch server or day 1 hard launch servers. In these servers, there is a high concentration of whales, and players here have had the longest amount of time to develop their rosters. Given these two factors, a huge number of players on these servers have access to the creme de la creme Poe+DPS compositions.
For them, the Poe problem is very real and impacts their PvP experience in a very negative way. That Poe has stagnated the game at the top of the ladders for these servers (yes, I know it's not actually a separate physical server - hold your semantic little tongue, sir/madam) is not really disputable.
That being said, The players who fall into the aforementioned category make up an minuscule fraction of the overall player base. Indeed, all of us on the forums combined represent the tiniest fraction of the players out there.
If you fall into this category, my request is that you try rephrasing your concerns. Instead of "Poe breaks the game, obviously.", try something along the lines of "On my server (shard/ladder/whatever), the proliferation of Poe+DPS has made PvP much less enjoyable for me."
The first is a statement that invalidates any other opinion and invites an inflammatory response from those that are not playing on those servers and do not share the same experience with Poe. The second is a statement of subjective fact that cannot be argued and invites me to empathize with your experience rather than fire back in order to simply assert my right to feel the way I feel.
And I do empathize. Many of the people I talk with in Line fall into the aforementioned category and the realities of their day-to-day experience are clear to me. I do not dispute them.
Now let me offer my experience.
On my server, the population rushed to build Phasma and largely ignored Poe, instead focusing on Daka from cantina shipments. I see more Dakas than Poes at the top tiers. This is not because I am on a "n00b" server - I started 2 days after hard launch. All of the top tier players are at level 70 and have had time to develop strong rosters.
There are maybe 6-7 teams sporting Poe in the top 20 right now. My server has had plenty of time to develop Poe as a weapon and has chosen not to. On my server, there are fewer whales to contend with than on the soft launch/day 1 servers, so my experience is very different. I have Poe (just 7*'d him), and I fight against the other top Poe players on a daily basis.
When I fight the two whale teams that have Poe, my own Poe give me at least a chance to stand up to "firepower of that magnitude". I run Sid/Poe/Poggle/Lumi/GS all 7*, lvl 70, and fully geared so don't tell me "when I grow up I'll understand" - that's an extremely solid team while not being the optimal chromium lineup. Even when my Poe goes first I'm not guaranteed a win, but I'm pleased that I have a weapon that allows me a puncher's chance.
Against the other (again mostly 5x7* lineups with synergy) Poe users, their Poe going first does not determine the match - it merely gives them an advantage. My Poe going first doesn't necessarily seal the match either; with a few lucky crits and the AI targeting the right toons at the right time I can still lose. Teams without Poe knock me out of the #1 spot on a regular basis, and they tend to run similar compositions to what @JohnnySteelAlpha detailed so well in another thread. There are a few common builds, but no cookie cutter builds adopted by all. And they're all competitive up to rank 1.
So, given the fact that my server was formed very close to hard launch, it stands to reason that many are having the same experience with Poe that I am. We all don't see the need to have him, and those that do do not enjoy an unbreakable edge despite having powerful teams. I talk to these people on my Line group as well. For me, Poe actually represents greater team diversity. For me, Poe makes PvP more enjoyable, not less.
So what's the net of all this? I've been rambling for a while, my apologies.
Regardless of what your personal experiences may be with Poe, none of us has access to enough information about the state of the game and the experiences of top tier players (let alone mid-tier) across enough servers to be able to state with any legitimate objectivity what the "right" thing to do about Poe is for the entirety of the player base. Any statement to the contrary is myopic and eminently refutable.
So you want me to believe that "Poe breaks the game"? Sorry, never going to happen. It's not a fact. You don't have the ability to make that assertion for anyone but yourself and the statistically insignificant group of players you socially interact with.
You want me to believe that "Poe breaks the game for you and those you communicate with closely"? I can get behind that 100%, and I feel for you. I really do.
Conversely, I don't expect you to believe that "Poe isn't a problem". I can't make that statement with any veracity.
But if I tell you that "Poe isn't a problem for me, and in fact makes the game at the top tiers for mine and at least a few other well-developed servers more fun!", I hope you at least attempt to look outside your own meta (because it is yours, not everyone's) and realize that when you change certain variables by server, the proliferation of Poe isn't an eventuality for groups outside of your own. He's just another great toon.
It's insulting to speak on high and pretend you know what's best for the entire game, when none of us has enough data to make that assertion empirically. I've seen this from people who both support and oppose a stronger Poe nerf.
Whichever camp you fall into - there's simply no excuse for Poe manners.