Keep Tenacity Up as is!
Gosh, this can of worms has been opened again.
IMO, Rex's ONLY use other than his leader ability is Tenacity Up. Tenacity Up prevents any debuffs from ever having a chance of landing, negating things like Ability Block, Shock, Stun, etc.
If Tenacity Up were to be nerfed into a flat % of tenacity, Ten Down ALSO needs to be nerfed into a flat decrease of tenacity. Ten Up/Down currently mirror and modifies stats by +/- 99900.
If you want to nerf Tenacity Up to the ground, fine; change Rex/Chirrut/Yoda's buff to "debuff immunity" and give other characters "tenacity up". Please don't cry nerf to something that has existed for more than a year. DN/Sun Fac/Baze/B2 all clear buffs easily enough.
Please don't nerf Rex because your Mob Enforcer, CUP, IG100, Ugnaught and Chewie can't win.
IMO, Rex's ONLY use other than his leader ability is Tenacity Up. Tenacity Up prevents any debuffs from ever having a chance of landing, negating things like Ability Block, Shock, Stun, etc.
If Tenacity Up were to be nerfed into a flat % of tenacity, Ten Down ALSO needs to be nerfed into a flat decrease of tenacity. Ten Up/Down currently mirror and modifies stats by +/- 99900.
If you want to nerf Tenacity Up to the ground, fine; change Rex/Chirrut/Yoda's buff to "debuff immunity" and give other characters "tenacity up". Please don't cry nerf to something that has existed for more than a year. DN/Sun Fac/Baze/B2 all clear buffs easily enough.
Please don't nerf Rex because your Mob Enforcer, CUP, IG100, Ugnaught and Chewie can't win.
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Rex was always strong but (from what I remember) he was never a problem for people before, like you said people are using stronger characters with him and that causes the problem
"Tenacity up should allow a 15% chance of your toon still being debuffed just like tenacity down allows a 15% chance of a affect still being resisted"
Problem solved
Btw fwiw Im a Jedi user so I depend greatly on Yodas Battle meditation
Yes, the problem is not Rex, it's people using counter characters together in the same team, this is what blocks the game and creates one meta to rule them all!...
Ya, looks like I misread your original reply, sorry about that. I agree
I never thought you misread
There should always be a chance to debuff. Or else where certain words and phrases as well. Like vader has some unavoidable stuff right? Not with ten up as it is. I get resisted when ten down is on players and raids alike. So ten up should be a resistance booster. Not 100%. Or else it should only land for 1 turn max not multiples. And really if you want ten up the way it is then remove the cleanse portion. If I stcaked 8 dots on your characters they should stay there. It's not balanced the way it is currently
I believe that was me, and I still think it's a good idea. (If it was someone else, great minds think alike.)
The devs really need to do something about these arena mode slog fests that come from Rex's tenacity up and Barriss' stupid zeta. For a start, Barriss shouldn't heal more damage than is done. Those two are far worse than Chaze. At least Chaze is fun to play with.
I'd tweak your suggestion slightly, I'd say it should be 10% for General Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker 25% for other non-clone allies and 40% for opposite alignment.
Note, I do use clones (don't have GK or AS) so this may seem self-serving but it's not going to suddenly make clones meta, I'd just like to see some abilities that work with synergy and punish bad synergy.
I didn't understand this at all. You can't make Tenacity up work diffrently on every character.
The game has evolved a lot from the days when the scariest debuff you had to deal with was sideous and his heal immunity. Keeping tenacity up the way it is is a necessary counter to that. The counter to tenacity up is a good dispeller, of whom there are plenty to choose from
tenacity up should be an opposite of tenacity down.
Anyone heard of B2? Boba?
Boba doesnt care about tenacity up or baze's taunt or how many hots are over chirruts head. In fact that only helps him. Bye bye chirrut, which means bye bye baze which means bye bye team.
So why not use a counter team with Zader, boba, B2, sun fac and DN? You've got 3 dispellers, 3 ability blocks and dots that dont go away.
This.
I run zYoda in arena. Only reason he's viable is because of tenacity up. When I face triple cleanse, I bring dispellers. People need to stop complaining because their zaul team can't beat everyone in the universe. Change your squad.
Rex has very definite counters. Continuing to rely on your Sith debuff team to try to beat him isn't one of them. Find another way before demanding the game be changed because you're having a hard time with one ability.
There are characters that can clear that stuff right up; Echo. Ventress, B2 are examples. Instead of whining about it, try a different approach. Ventress is fantastic against a Rex or Tenacity Up team. Her dispell doesn't miss and can't be resisted, so all you're doing by applying it is loading her up with health. B2 has always been death on teams that rely on buffs.
Try running a team without a cleanser or tenacity up provider against one of those teams. It won't be pretty for you.
We forget about how strong those teams are because they're easy to counter. Those counters are necessary
Why? It's essentially an extension of a mechanic used for other abilities in the game, e.g. Dead or Alive which gives one buff to Scoundrels but another to other character types.
The reason for the tiered suggestion was to allow Rex to remain useful but not be completely overpowering.
The other option is just to make it applicable to clones.
Cleanse and squad TM gain are also pretty helpful from that same ability. Maybe even equally helpful to tenacity-up buff. It's a very powerful ability!
TM removal on basic is also nice.
You just want to keep your unfair advantage. Tenacity up is Debuff immunity, they already have it, and thats the problem. Your want to keep things the way they are makes any team using debuffs worthless. Guess how many empire teams are in my top 50? 1 maybe, and they aren't in top 10.
First, AOE cleanse shouldn't come with Tenacity up on all 5 characters. It should be an AOE cleanse with tenacity up on target ally. It would still protect 1 of your team, but at least all the other team builds would stand a chance. AOE cleanse also doesn't need a full heal ability for all 5 either, that should be per target ally as well.
Lastly, Tenacity up should only last 1 turn if it's going to remain for all 5 members. In 2 turns when it wears off, and can be reapplied, the match has already swung your way. Debuffers can't recover once you have 12 HoT per character.
A team wth Finn, lobot, and ackbar is a triple cleanse team, but nobody runs it. The issue isn't cleansing or tenacity up, the issue is chirrut and Kenobi getting a cleanse and tenacity up tacked onto an already very strong skill set. This is what allows you to run multiple cleansers in a team and still do well.
The mechanics behind cleanse and tenacity up are fine, but those characters are a little overturned..
For example. Yoda gives Tenacity Up. It's causes problems but can be handled. Jedi teams also don't have 2x AOE cleanse, and they don't have a stack of HoT on them.
Yoda Tenacity up causes problems for debuffers, but isn't match ending problem. You can battle back from it. With Chaze/GK/Rex Tenacity up never goes away because multiple people can give it, and they can aoe cleanse between them every turn. But having Rex and Chirrut both 5x cleanse AND 5x tenacity up, along with Chirrut Full heal, how is anyone to overcome perpetual debuff immunity.
And before people start saying, Well... B2, DT... Have you tried those in top 20 Arena? Going out on a limb and thinking you haven't. Some of us have, and it makes no difference. B2 doesn't hit hard. To kill anyone with a stack of HOT you need to basically instakill them or they fully heal. B2 doesn't bring enough firepower to take up a 5th spot.
The issue isnt zetas or lack thereof. If you aren't willing to use the proper counter of a particular unit/squad it doesnt matter how many zetas you have you shouldnt expect to win.
You can beat a no zeta cleanse team with a no zeta counter team which includes boba, b2 , sun fac and DN. No zetas needed for boba or DN
You may have had a point up until the **** comparison at the end. Good job
This - Especially the last part. People throw out Boba like he's the solution, and he's not really. He doesn't mesh with the leadership skills we're talking about here, so he's just dangling in the wind hoping his one-hit wonder actually add up right. Plus, should multi-kit toons really need this one counter to take them down?
But as other have said, Rex was NEVER an issue until Chaze/R2/GK came along. But now a lot of us are left with the choice of continuing with our dark side teams and hoping for RNG to take 5 toons up against the kits of (essentially) 8 toons. Or just join them. Which I can do, but there goes diversity.
Meanwhile, we're talking about effing Jawas in that other thread and how CG wants players to open up their team comps. Meanwhile, it's triple cleanse+ in the arena or go home.
I run Resistance, and do just fine against the triple cleanse. I occasionally get wrecked by bad RNG, like if Baze doesn't get debuffed when Poe taunts, or if GK immediately taunts from RT dispelling Baze combined with Rex and Chirrut not losing TM from Poe's taunt.
Your Boba and DN suggestion is a good one though, and probably the best f2p suggestion for a couple easy drop in changes to the average squad. No top-to-bottom team rework required. The triple cleanse teams just turtle until the DN can Annihilate, they don't have overwhelming damage. With your own Boba and DN you can outrace them on executes.
I would argue that you don't even need B2 and Sun Fac. They would shine there, if you really want to build the perfect counter team, but you could just as easily have GK and Rex and Barriss in there instead. Boba and DN getting insta-kills is the key, any team that can keep those two on their feet will do fine.
Both Chirrut and Kenobi have decent cooldowns on their abilities though. They are only as strong as they are because of Rex's dispel and tenacity up. Take that away and both of them together are going to struggle to keep your teams clean.
Rex is the problem here.
Chirrut, Kenobi, Rex, and ackbar all have a four turn cooldown on their cleanses and Finn and lobot each have 3.
Rex is the weakest link on the team because of how low his health is and because the only other thing he provides is turn meter boosts. Chirrut on the other hand heals like a doctor, counters constantly, and can hit for 30-40k, while Kenobi auto taunts, buffs his team with foresight, retribution, and crit immunity, and has a strong assist attack. The cleanse is just the icing on the top for them
There's a reason you don't see any Rex/lobot/ackbar teams either