Kylo Ren - biggest whining actual character. You can have him. I actually liked Jar Jar Binks better because he looks like a whiner. But Kylo? CGI looks worse than what was done in the original trilogy. Disney and the Force Awakens did not have the impact that A New Hope did when it came out period. It's easy to give people what they want with something that has already been created. A lot harder dreaming it up and bringing it to fruition.
"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences ... The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation."
"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences ... The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation."
What is your argument with this quote? When i praised kennedy and lucasfilm for streamlining the canon, i wasn't making a comment on the quality of everything that is now legends. Its just my opinion that all the books, games, comics, etc (both good and bad) clutter the franchise and make it difficult to have conversations about the films when everyone's knowledge of the universe varies so much.
"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences ... The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation."
What is your argument with this quote? When i praised kennedy and lucasfilm for streamlining the canon, i wasn't making a comment on the quality of everything that is now legends. Its just my opinion that all the books, games, comics, etc (both good and bad) clutter the franchise and make it difficult to have conversations about the films when everyone's knowledge of the universe varies so much.
Wasn't being argumentative. Was pointing out who created all of this (Lucas) and variations of his vision are from other people that aren't recognized by Lucas Films.
"When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves—and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences ... The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation."
What is your argument with this quote? When i praised kennedy and lucasfilm for streamlining the canon, i wasn't making a comment on the quality of everything that is now legends. Its just my opinion that all the books, games, comics, etc (both good and bad) clutter the franchise and make it difficult to have conversations about the films when everyone's knowledge of the universe varies so much.
Wasn't being argumentative. Was pointing out who created all of this (Lucas) and variations of his vision are from other people that aren't recognized by Lucas Films.
Gotcha.
That quote refers to EU materials. While much of the eu has certainly had a huge (mostly, but not always positive) effect on star wars, i was referring to the OT movies.
In 1977, Lucas wrote and directed what was likely the best B-movie ever made. The characters, story, style, and tone weren't particularly original, but he had the budget, he had the right creative team, and he had the right marketing team to make a fun, engaging blockbuster.
In 1980, lucas took somewhat of a backseat in the creative process, letting kershner and kasdan take most of the control. The result wasn't just a fun blockbuster, but a true film with depth, nuance, originality, humor, emotion, and passion. The characters felt like real people with believable complexities instead of recycled tropes, which makes the action far more investing and intense. The dialogue had purpose and moved not just the plot, but the development of the characters.
Then in 1983, Lucas decided he wanted back in the writing process after kershner and kasdan were showered with praise. The only thing that kept rotj from being a total disaster was the throne room scene and the residual quality from Empire. With lucas at the writing desk, the personality from the characters, the humor, and the nuance was completely sapped.
TLDR: lucas deserves some credit for ANH, but most of what he's done since then is quite terrible. He certainly shouldn't be treated as the god many make him out to be.
I just admire the guy for dreaming up such an amazing universe. Definitely something that blew me away when I saw Star wars at the age of six years old.
I love when people criticize George Lucas. Why don't you try dreaming up an entire universe filled with characters,ships, planets, dialogue... and then try to make that into a movie. If you don't like what he did then create your own. Stop whining about George should do this or that. George can do whatever he wants. He created all of this.
No, he didnt create "all of this". Does he deserve some credit for distinguishing a new hope from all the sci-fi/fantasy serials he ripped off? Sure. But thats about it. The most significant contribution he made to star wars was turning it into the commercialized, overblown, multimedia, toy-selling, cash cow franchise it is today. While this isnt inherently bad, hes made a tremendous amount of money by slapping his name on other people's creativity. The truth is, he had little to do with the best parts of the franchise and everything to do with the worst.
If you want god-like figures to look up to, look to ralph mcquarrie, lawrence kasdan, and kathleen kennedy.
He and Kurtz created the Star Wars franchise. Kennedy made a fan based movie for all the whiners.
Yes, whiners who want actual characters, comprehensive dialogue, convincing visuals, and focused canon material. She got lucasfilm back on the rails after star wars became such an inconsistent, bloated mess.
That's not entirely true DatBoi. We won't be able to assess how she handled star wars until the sequel trilogy wraps up.
I love when people criticize George Lucas. Why don't you try dreaming up an entire universe filled with characters,ships, planets, dialogue... and then try to make that into a movie. If you don't like what he did then create your own. Stop whining about George should do this or that. George can do whatever he wants. He created all of this.
No, he didnt create "all of this". Does he deserve some credit for distinguishing a new hope from all the sci-fi/fantasy serials he ripped off? Sure. But thats about it. The most significant contribution he made to star wars was turning it into the commercialized, overblown, multimedia, toy-selling, cash cow franchise it is today. While this isnt inherently bad, hes made a tremendous amount of money by slapping his name on other people's creativity. The truth is, he had little to do with the best parts of the franchise and everything to do with the worst.
If you want god-like figures to look up to, look to ralph mcquarrie, lawrence kasdan, and kathleen kennedy.
He and Kurtz created the Star Wars franchise. Kennedy made a fan based movie for all the whiners.
Yes, whiners who want actual characters, comprehensive dialogue, convincing visuals, and focused canon material. She got lucasfilm back on the rails after star wars became such an inconsistent, bloated mess.
That's not entirely true DatBoi. We won't be able to assess how she handled star wars until the sequel trilogy wraps up.
Fair enough, but at least their priorities seem to be in order
I love when people criticize George Lucas. Why don't you try dreaming up an entire universe filled with characters,ships, planets, dialogue... and then try to make that into a movie. If you don't like what he did then create your own. Stop whining about George should do this or that. George can do whatever he wants. He created all of this.
No, he didnt create "all of this". Does he deserve some credit for distinguishing a new hope from all the sci-fi/fantasy serials he ripped off? Sure. But thats about it. The most significant contribution he made to star wars was turning it into the commercialized, overblown, multimedia, toy-selling, cash cow franchise it is today. While this isnt inherently bad, hes made a tremendous amount of money by slapping his name on other people's creativity. The truth is, he had little to do with the best parts of the franchise and everything to do with the worst.
If you want god-like figures to look up to, look to ralph mcquarrie, lawrence kasdan, and kathleen kennedy.
He and Kurtz created the Star Wars franchise. Kennedy made a fan based movie for all the whiners.
Yes, whiners who want actual characters, comprehensive dialogue, convincing visuals, and focused canon material. She got lucasfilm back on the rails after star wars became such an inconsistent, bloated mess.
That's not entirely true DatBoi. We won't be able to assess how she handled star wars until the sequel trilogy wraps up.
Fair enough, but at least their priorities seem to be in order
I love when people criticize George Lucas. Why don't you try dreaming up an entire universe filled with characters,ships, planets, dialogue... and then try to make that into a movie. If you don't like what he did then create your own. Stop whining about George should do this or that. George can do whatever he wants. He created all of this.
No, he didnt create "all of this". Does he deserve some credit for distinguishing a new hope from all the sci-fi/fantasy serials he ripped off? Sure. But thats about it. The most significant contribution he made to star wars was turning it into the commercialized, overblown, multimedia, toy-selling, cash cow franchise it is today. While this isnt inherently bad, hes made a tremendous amount of money by slapping his name on other people's creativity. The truth is, he had little to do with the best parts of the franchise and everything to do with the worst.
If you want god-like figures to look up to, look to ralph mcquarrie, lawrence kasdan, and kathleen kennedy.
He and Kurtz created the Star Wars franchise. Kennedy made a fan based movie for all the whiners.
Yes, whiners who want actual characters, comprehensive dialogue, convincing visuals, and focused canon material. She got lucasfilm back on the rails after star wars became such an inconsistent, bloated mess.
That's not entirely true DatBoi. We won't be able to assess how she handled star wars until the sequel trilogy wraps up.
As long as they don't do a special editions 20 years later and sweep the original versions under the rug they get my approval
I love when people criticize George Lucas. Why don't you try dreaming up an entire universe filled with characters,ships, planets, dialogue... and then try to make that into a movie. If you don't like what he did then create your own. Stop whining about George should do this or that. George can do whatever he wants. He created all of this.
No, he didnt create "all of this". Does he deserve some credit for distinguishing a new hope from all the sci-fi/fantasy serials he ripped off? Sure. But thats about it. The most significant contribution he made to star wars was turning it into the commercialized, overblown, multimedia, toy-selling, cash cow franchise it is today. While this isnt inherently bad, hes made a tremendous amount of money by slapping his name on other people's creativity. The truth is, he had little to do with the best parts of the franchise and everything to do with the worst.
If you want god-like figures to look up to, look to ralph mcquarrie, lawrence kasdan, and kathleen kennedy.
He and Kurtz created the Star Wars franchise. Kennedy made a fan based movie for all the whiners.
Yes, whiners who want actual characters, comprehensive dialogue, convincing visuals, and focused canon material. She got lucasfilm back on the rails after star wars became such an inconsistent, bloated mess.
That's not entirely true DatBoi. We won't be able to assess how she handled star wars until the sequel trilogy wraps up.
As long as they don't do a special editions 20 years later and sweep the original versions under the rug they get my approval
Yeah, who is she, I mean she was just an associate producer on the Indiana Jones trilogy, and the executive producer on the Back to the Future trilogy, and Schindler's List, and a producer on Jurassic Park, and TFA and R1... I mean what has she ever done....
That's the only civilized way these PT/OT discussions can end lol
And everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Where I take issue is saying that one of the top 3 most successful producers of all time (as far as the box office is concerned) is terrible and not worth looking up to.
You don't have to like her stuff, you do you, but I mean are there really people out there that don't like Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, ET, and the new Star Wars!? Again, you do you, but that's probably a person I wouldn't like hanging out with
That's the only civilized way these PT/OT discussions can end lol
And everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Where I take issue is saying that one of the top 3 most successful producers of all time (as far as the box office is concerned) is terrible and not worth looking up to.
You don't have to like her stuff, you do you, but I mean are there really people out there that don't like Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, ET, and the new Star Wars!? Again, you do you, but that's probably a person I wouldn't like hanging out with
Box office profits are hardly an indicator of quality
That's the only civilized way these PT/OT discussions can end lol
And everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Where I take issue is saying that one of the top 3 most successful producers of all time (as far as the box office is concerned) is terrible and not worth looking up to.
You don't have to like her stuff, you do you, but I mean are there really people out there that don't like Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, ET, and the new Star Wars!? Again, you do you, but that's probably a person I wouldn't like hanging out with
Box office profits are hardly an indicator of quality
Ratings sites consistently have her films in the mid-80's or above. Rotten Tomatoes has the films i mentioned in the mid to high 90's. By virtually any measure, financial, critical, etc. she's been nothing but wildly successful...
That's the only civilized way these PT/OT discussions can end lol
And everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Where I take issue is saying that one of the top 3 most successful producers of all time (as far as the box office is concerned) is terrible and not worth looking up to.
You don't have to like her stuff, you do you, but I mean are there really people out there that don't like Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, ET, and the new Star Wars!? Again, you do you, but that's probably a person I wouldn't like hanging out with
Box office profits are hardly an indicator of quality
Ratings sites consistently have her films in the mid-80's or above. Rotten Tomatoes has the films i mentioned in the mid to high 90's. By virtually any measure, financial, critical, etc. she's been nothing but wildly successful...
Im not arguing your assessment of her talents as a producer, just the initial reasoning
That's the only civilized way these PT/OT discussions can end lol
And everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Where I take issue is saying that one of the top 3 most successful producers of all time (as far as the box office is concerned) is terrible and not worth looking up to.
You don't have to like her stuff, you do you, but I mean are there really people out there that don't like Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, ET, and the new Star Wars!? Again, you do you, but that's probably a person I wouldn't like hanging out with
Box office profits are hardly an indicator of quality
Box office profits or not - those movies are considered classics in their own time and I know I have seen them all and they are all brilliant movies.
That's the only civilized way these PT/OT discussions can end lol
And everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Where I take issue is saying that one of the top 3 most successful producers of all time (as far as the box office is concerned) is terrible and not worth looking up to.
You don't have to like her stuff, you do you, but I mean are there really people out there that don't like Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, ET, and the new Star Wars!? Again, you do you, but that's probably a person I wouldn't like hanging out with
Box office profits are hardly an indicator of quality
Box office profits or not - those movies are considered classics in their own time and I know I have seen them all and they are all brilliant movies.
They are good, but not just because they made a lot of money
I wonder if any of us older fans who saw the original Star Wars when it came out enjoyed The Force Awakens. I personally did not. Can't put my finger on why really other than the following points. Hated that they killed Han Solo for starters. But I also didn't like how quickly Rey was able to use the force and definitely didn't like that Finn was able to one up Kylo in a light saber duel. Maybe I am missing something from not reading the books, comics...
That's the only civilized way these PT/OT discussions can end lol
And everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Where I take issue is saying that one of the top 3 most successful producers of all time (as far as the box office is concerned) is terrible and not worth looking up to.
You don't have to like her stuff, you do you, but I mean are there really people out there that don't like Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, ET, and the new Star Wars!? Again, you do you, but that's probably a person I wouldn't like hanging out with
Box office profits are hardly an indicator of quality
Box office profits or not - those movies are considered classics in their own time and I know I have seen them all and they are all brilliant movies.
They are good, but not just because they made a lot of money
Exactly - and that's what we need for star wars. So I am happy Kathleen Kennedy is involved.
I wonder if any of us older fans who saw the original Star Wars when it came out enjoyed The Force Awakens. I personally did not. Can't put my finger on why really other than the following points. Hated that they killed Han Solo for starters. But I also didn't like how quickly Rey was able to use the force and definitely didn't like that Finn was able to one up Kylo in a light saber duel. Maybe I am missing something from not reading the books, comics...
Well Ford was begging that they kill off Han Solo in TESB, so he finally got his wish. It did make an impactful statement re: Kylo and how badly he wants to be as powerful and as dark as vader.
But Yeah - how Rey was able to use the force so quickly was weird - especially if she is in no way connected tot he skywalker lineage, this will break the star wars lore completely.
Finn - I still think that possibly he and Poe may be force sensitive, so we'll see what happens there I guess.
But ultimately - I disliked how much of a copy to ANH it was - also its a new era, R1 called for the use of tie fighters and x-wings, but the ST does not and they kinda cheaped out on giving us new and iconic ships and vehicles.
What's even worse that Rey was able to use the force so quickly is how overpowered she is in the game with hitting you three times with her stick and your toon is dead. Lol. I don't think that would have gone over to well in the movie hitting Vader three times and he is dead. But yeah, a few things from this new movie that I can't get use to. Maybe I am getting old and not liking change too much. Kathleen Kennedy stated she wanted to make a movie for the fans. Still not sure what the fan's were asking for that she put into the movie. Guess I need to read up on Star Wars canon.
It was a reboot disguised as a sequel. The kids love it and thats all that matters. Old farts like me will die off and they'll need a new audience to sell tickets and more importantly merchandise to. May the swartz be with you
Replies
What is your argument with this quote? When i praised kennedy and lucasfilm for streamlining the canon, i wasn't making a comment on the quality of everything that is now legends. Its just my opinion that all the books, games, comics, etc (both good and bad) clutter the franchise and make it difficult to have conversations about the films when everyone's knowledge of the universe varies so much.
Wasn't being argumentative. Was pointing out who created all of this (Lucas) and variations of his vision are from other people that aren't recognized by Lucas Films.
Gotcha.
That quote refers to EU materials. While much of the eu has certainly had a huge (mostly, but not always positive) effect on star wars, i was referring to the OT movies.
In 1977, Lucas wrote and directed what was likely the best B-movie ever made. The characters, story, style, and tone weren't particularly original, but he had the budget, he had the right creative team, and he had the right marketing team to make a fun, engaging blockbuster.
In 1980, lucas took somewhat of a backseat in the creative process, letting kershner and kasdan take most of the control. The result wasn't just a fun blockbuster, but a true film with depth, nuance, originality, humor, emotion, and passion. The characters felt like real people with believable complexities instead of recycled tropes, which makes the action far more investing and intense. The dialogue had purpose and moved not just the plot, but the development of the characters.
Then in 1983, Lucas decided he wanted back in the writing process after kershner and kasdan were showered with praise. The only thing that kept rotj from being a total disaster was the throne room scene and the residual quality from Empire. With lucas at the writing desk, the personality from the characters, the humor, and the nuance was completely sapped.
TLDR: lucas deserves some credit for ANH, but most of what he's done since then is quite terrible. He certainly shouldn't be treated as the god many make him out to be.
That's not entirely true DatBoi. We won't be able to assess how she handled star wars until the sequel trilogy wraps up.
Fair enough, but at least their priorities seem to be in order
True
As long as they don't do a special editions 20 years later and sweep the original versions under the rug they get my approval
Maybe a special addition of the holiday special
Yeah, who is she, I mean she was just an associate producer on the Indiana Jones trilogy, and the executive producer on the Back to the Future trilogy, and Schindler's List, and a producer on Jurassic Park, and TFA and R1... I mean what has she ever done....
/rolls eyes
That's the only civilized way these PT/OT discussions can end lol
-Sun Tzu
False. It ends when i draw my final breath
And everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Where I take issue is saying that one of the top 3 most successful producers of all time (as far as the box office is concerned) is terrible and not worth looking up to.
You don't have to like her stuff, you do you, but I mean are there really people out there that don't like Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, ET, and the new Star Wars!? Again, you do you, but that's probably a person I wouldn't like hanging out with
Box office profits are hardly an indicator of quality
Ratings sites consistently have her films in the mid-80's or above. Rotten Tomatoes has the films i mentioned in the mid to high 90's. By virtually any measure, financial, critical, etc. she's been nothing but wildly successful...
For some reason this popped in my head and for some reason had to share
Box office profits or not - those movies are considered classics in their own time and I know I have seen them all and they are all brilliant movies.
They are good, but not just because they made a lot of money
Exactly - and that's what we need for star wars. So I am happy Kathleen Kennedy is involved.
Well Ford was begging that they kill off Han Solo in TESB, so he finally got his wish. It did make an impactful statement re: Kylo and how badly he wants to be as powerful and as dark as vader.
But Yeah - how Rey was able to use the force so quickly was weird - especially if she is in no way connected tot he skywalker lineage, this will break the star wars lore completely.
Finn - I still think that possibly he and Poe may be force sensitive, so we'll see what happens there I guess.
But ultimately - I disliked how much of a copy to ANH it was - also its a new era, R1 called for the use of tie fighters and x-wings, but the ST does not and they kinda cheaped out on giving us new and iconic ships and vehicles.