I haven’t read the whole thread but i think it still goes about chopper vs K2 in a JTR, Bb8, r2, GK +x squad on Defense.
I can say this: For me it’s x = scav Rey. I faced teams with x = chopper and the main problem is: chopper does get one turn, maybe. That’s it. Everything that is not resistance or gets TM through some mechanic (always thought about b2, but I don’t have him geared) or has an auto taunt is pretty much dead weight on defense against JTR. Comparable mods of course.
So if k2 Counter attacks, that would be nice but wouldn’t really matter, because everyone is stealthier. If he inflicts daze, that would be golden against a JTR team. But since he does that only on his special, I doubt his usefulness, although I haven’t faced that combination yet.
See that's just the thing. This thread isn't about JTR, BB8, r2, GK+ K2 or Chopper although that's what Woodroward wants to debate. This is about JTR, R2, BB8, Chopper, IPD. In this squad I feel like Chopper is a champ.
That's your (incorrect) interpretation of it. I know you're in love with chopper, but this thread was about JTR with droids and the new META. That was the initial claim. It asked for opinions. I gave detailed information on why K2 will improve how the team holds on defense over Chopper (contributing to the thread), and you came in here simply to say I was wrong without any experience to back up your claims. That's my problem with your posts. You aren't here to contribute, you're here to battle me.
Fine, let's go over it one more time although I doubt you will agree with anything I have to say. So far you have simply glazed over all my valid points and go straight to your bizarre claim I have no experience on the subject because my Chopper is gear 12 and K2SO only gear 11. Meanwhile your K2SO is gear 12 and Chopper only gear 9 yet you are the expert on all things tank.
1. The thread is about a 4 droid RTJ squad using IPD and Chopper. This squad is extremely fast and each droids turn feeds TM to other characters. Chopper adds chance of assist to droids when they use an ability. If he crits ID CD is reduced and an additional chance to reduce that droids CDs as well. This assist will also buff another droid. Woodroward skimmed over this as important because ID gives these buffs. What he doesn't see is these buffs are important to speed your droids in order to use ID sooner. Chopper also adds a dispel to the squad. What woodroward skipped over is this dispel removes 10% TM per buff removed to all enemies and gives him 25% protection back per buff removed. Chopper is VERY fast and will attack much more often than K2SO and removes TM from the entire enemy squad with his special. This gives your whole squad even more turns.
2. K2SO is slow but counterattacks. If the enemy uses R2 then enemies will be stealthed... no counters. K2SO will receive foresight from R2 when he uses his stealth. This foresight will evade an attack which... you guessed it... again no counterattack. At this point he has done nothing but stand there. He will then Daze someone. If he hasn't been dazed, stunned, fractured then he is still very slow and doesn't add much beyond offense down. Sure he's tough but Chopper regenerates 25% protection per buff dispelled and gains 25% evasion while taunting. Just as tough all things considered. You have loaded up on defense mods and are super slow? Chopper can just as easily load up on the exact same defense mods and still be faster than K2SO.
I'm sure this is where Woodroward in all his wisdom will declare I have zero experience. If only I had 3 more gear pieces on K2SO then I could also know everything there is to know about this game. One can only dream I suppose.
That's your (incorrect) interpretation of it. I know you're in love with chopper, but this thread was about JTR with droids and the new META. That was the initial claim. It asked for opinions. I gave detailed information on why K2 will improve how the team holds on defense over Chopper (contributing to the thread), and you came in here simply to say I was wrong without any experience to back up your claims. That's my problem with your posts. You aren't here to contribute, you're here to battle me.
Fine, let's go over it one more time although I doubt you will agree with anything I have to say. So far you have simply glazed over all my valid points and go straight to your bizarre claim I have no experience on the subject because my Chopper is gear 12 and K2SO only gear 11. Meanwhile your K2SO is gear 12 and Chopper only gear 9 yet you are the expert on all things tank.
My claim is that you have no idea how K2 holds on D because you haven't run him in g12. Without G12, R2 won't leave K2 out of stealth which makes him worthless for D, which makes any experience you may have running him not valid for when you're on defense, which is the main reason to include him.
Now I have said on numerous occasions that I would accept you facing g12 K2 in this comp as experience too, but you haven't or you'd have long since brought it up. Conversely I have faced numerous Choppers on defense so I know how he holds on D without ever having run him. You can have a bad taste in your mouth that your lack of gear on K2 is more relevant than my lack of gear on Chopper, but it doesn't change the fact that it is true.
1. The thread is about a 4 droid RTJ squad using IPD and Chopper. This squad is extremely fast and each droids turn feeds TM to other characters. Chopper adds chance of assist to droids when they use an ability. If he crits ID CD is reduced and an additional chance to reduce that droids CDs as well. This assist will also buff another droid. Woodroward skimmed over this as important because ID gives these buffs. What he doesn't see is these buffs are important to speed your droids in order to use ID sooner. Chopper also adds a dispel to the squad. What woodroward skipped over is this dispel removes 10% TM per buff removed to all enemies and gives him 25% protection back per buff removed. Chopper is VERY fast and will attack much more often than K2SO and removes TM from the entire enemy squad with his special. This gives your whole squad even more turns.
All this is fine. I never disagreed with any of this. It makes Chopper quite excellent on offense. What I said was that those buffs have decreased value since there are other sources of them in the compostion. However, there is no other source of offense down in the comp, and another Daze is extremely useful for fighting counter attackers (CLS leads) and JTR (tm gain). The value of these debuffs supercedes the value of the buffs you have mentioned. You are wrong about one thing here. It's not THAT droid's cooldowns that get decreased, it is a random droid's cooldowns that have a chance to get decreased though it is the same random droid that gets the buff.
If it was the same droid that he assisted, the value of this would be much higher than it is. As it is, a 30% chance to assist with a 60% chance to reduce cooldowns and 4 droids in composition means that, 1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 which means one out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks will result in this ability decreasing ID's CD. It is really not a very impressive stat. As for Chopper's buff wipe, it really shouldn't do that much with IPD in comp since he will be preventing the enemy from gaining buffs anyway, which means the tm removal he does will be not much and not often. It's real benefit is in that it can stun droids.
2. K2SO is slow but counterattacks. If the enemy uses R2 then enemies will be stealthed... no counters. K2SO will receive foresight from R2 when he uses his stealth. This foresight will evade an attack which... you guessed it... again no counterattack. At this point he has done nothing but stand there. He will then Daze someone. If he hasn't been dazed, stunned, fractured then he is still very slow and doesn't add much beyond offense down. Sure he's tough but Chopper regenerates 25% protection per buff dispelled and gains 25% evasion while taunting. Just as tough all things considered. You have loaded up on defense mods and are super slow? Chopper can just as easily load up on the exact same defense mods and still be faster than K2SO.
IPD will Aoe buff wipe all that stealth his first turn and leave the people with buff immunity which means no stealth and no foresight. There's nothing to prevent K2S0 from countering the enemies by the time they get to go because of the increased tm this team will have to start thanks to BB8's unique.
If he doesn't counterattack occasionally, so what? 30% chance to assist means that unless you are getting more than 3 turns to the enemy's 1, 97.6% counter chance means that K2 will have more out of turn attacks than chopper. BB8 goes roughly 2 times for each enemy turn since he gives himself 50% tm every time he goes. R2 will go far less than that.
There is tm gain from exposes to consider, but 10% tm per exposes that more or less only appear when a resistance ally crits means that their isn't usually enough tm gain to increase this much. Sure, every 3rd turn of Reys you can land 3 exposes for 30% tm, but the next she'll land none. r2 can land 5 one turn, but none the next when he stealths. BB8 should never land exposes on his turn. That means a maximum of 9 exposes between R2 and JTR's 5 turns for about 18% tm gain on average for resistance outside of JTR. so we're talking now this will happen during several of BB8's turns so we're looking at more like a 9% tm gain for him each turn on average compared to the 18% for R2.
Neither one of those numbers is sufficient to make them go 3 times for every enemy turn, which means that k2 will attack more times out of turn than Chopper will, and therefore reduce ID's CD more than Chopper will. Now he will take slightly more turns than K2, which ends up evening them out on ID CD reductions. K2 won't attack out of turn only once more than Chopper for every 23 attacks, it will be significantly more than that.
Buff immunity doesn't stop K2 thanks to R2, Debuffs don't significantly lower his counter chance (outside of Daze and Stun which are just as detrimental to Chopper) for the same reason. Stealth is a non-issue thanks to IPD. Him not taunting isn't an issue thanks to BB8's Secret Intel. All of K2's big weaknesses pretty much don't apply in the proposed composition.
I'm sure this is where Woodroward in all his wisdom will declare I have zero experience. If only I had 3 more gear pieces on K2SO then I could also know everything there is to know about this game. One can only dream I suppose.
And you had to throw in a personal attack at the end that again puts things in my mouth that I never even implied. Thanks for actually attempting to contribute though.
As it is, a 30% chance to assist with a 60% chance to reduce cooldowns and 4 droids in composition means that, on average, 1 out of every 24 assists will reduce ID's cd due to this ability. It is really not a very impressive stat.
Can you do me a favor and go over your math on this. I'm sure I'm messing up somewhere, but I'm getting a higher percentage than 1 out of every 24 assists reducing the cooldown for ID. Thanks!
As it is, a 30% chance to assist with a 60% chance to reduce cooldowns and 4 droids in composition means that, on average, 1 out of every 24 assists will reduce ID's cd due to this ability. It is really not a very impressive stat.
Can you do me a favor and go over your math on this. I'm sure I'm messing up somewhere, but I'm getting a higher percentage than 1 out of every 24 assists reducing the cooldown for ID. Thanks!
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
He can reduce his own cooldowns as well, so it is 1 out of 4 droids that can have their CDs reduced. My original assertion was one out of every 24 attacks by a droid will result in Chopper reducing a cooldown, not one out of 24 assists. I misworded it in the quoted post. Thanks for correcting me. I have edited the post to reflect the correct math instead.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
Well those are both the same, but it isn't necessarily the same droid he assisted on, If it was BB8 would have ID reduced a lot more due to how often he goes.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based on nothing.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
So in an attempt to pull this thread back on point to what the original intent was, let's discuss the team as constructed and please pause on the alternative constructions (or start your own thread on that, enough is enough).
In discussing this with D Wayne and Mzungu, another very important bit is that chopper has to be fully geared....all G12 bits. His gains are significant fully geared.
Here are two people running it with a lot of success. Mzungu is my guild mate, and D Wayne is someone I have been talking to on discord on this and has been very helpful with his feedback (thank you if you are reading this!):
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
You've proven nothing except how rediculous and rude you are. It is very clear how little you know and how much you THINK you know. You think very highly of yourself although you've accomplished very little. Congrats on getting a few characters to gear 12. Those few characters are likely the very best at everything.
So in an attempt to pull this thread back on point to what the original intent was, let's discuss the team as constructed and please pause on the alternative constructions (or start your own thread on that, enough is enough).
In discussing this with D Wayne and Mzungu, another very important bit is that chopper has to be fully geared....all G12 bits. His gains are significant fully geared.
Here are two people running it with a lot of success. Mzungu is my guild mate, and D Wayne is someone I have been talking to on discord on this and has been very helpful with his feedback (thank you if you are reading this!):
As for the other: thread title is team droids on roids... the new META? Talking about an alternative droid to the original composition is on topic, though I have nothing more to say on that topic at this moment.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
You've proven nothing except how little experience you have with this game. You have a very limited roster of characters. Your mods are meh. You talk about experience with Chopper based on the fact that you have fought against him while on offense but you ignore the fact that all squads are easily beatable while on Defense. Your K2SO obviously loses just as easily on defense or else your arena rank wouldn't be all over the place.
You keep claiming you "win" although just about everything you say is completely one-sided and you ignore every argument against your claim and go right into your "victory speech". It's almost as if you need to prove to yourself that your one tank isn't just mediocre... which he is.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
You've proven nothing except how little experience you have with this game. You have a very limited roster of characters. Your mods are meh. You talk about experience with Chopper based on the fact that you have fought against him while on offense but you ignore the fact that all squads are easily beatable while on Defense. Your K2SO obviously loses just as easily on defense or else your arena rank wouldn't be all over the place.
You keep claiming you "win" although just about everything you say is completely one-sided and you ignore every argument against your claim and go right into your "victory speech". It's almost as if you need to prove to yourself that your one tank is just mediocre... which he is.
I've ignored nothing man. I have responded with rebuttals based on experience, math, and AI. You, however, have simply repeated that I haven't done this or that while it is irrelevant... which I proved by math, experience, and AI. There's only one of us ignoring points.
Again, I never cared about offense. Not all teams are easily beatable on defense, and now you have proven you are naught but a troll. Thanks for doing so. You just can't help but insult me to try and prove you are right. Well, you're not. The fact that you are insulting me pretty much confirms it.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
The only thing you've proven is that your roster is very limited, your mods are meh, and that you have fought Chopper while on Defense. You ignore every single argument against your claims and use jabs and insults to try to discredit those who disagree with you. Your claims against Chopper on defense ring very hollow considering the fact that all teams are easily beat on defense right now. Your K2SO fails just as much as Chopper on defense or your arena rank wouldn't be all over the place. You make claims about characters you have NEVER used and then declare yourself the "winner" over and over despite the fact you have had ZERO support in this thread. Your "math" is all theoretical and you have ZERO means to prove anything you say because you simply don't have the characters. You seem to think a big meat shield is the sole purpose of Chopper in a IPD squad and ignore the turn meter aspect of the squad which Chopper puts into overdrive. You ignore the fact that Chopper's assists occur while your guys are attacking and this is a very speedy squad that gets multiple attacks in before the enemy gets a turn meanwhile K2SO has to wait for the enemy to attack to counter and your own foresights prevent counters which means even less crits for your K2SO. If the enemy is stealthed then its very likely you will see a very limited amount of counters. I fully expect you to ignore all of this and declare yourself "winner" once again like a tool.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
The only thing you've proven is that your roster is very limited, your mods are meh, and that you have fought Chopper while on Defense. You ignore every single argument against your claims and use jabs and insults to try to discredit those who disagree with you. Your claims against Chopper on defense ring very hollow considering the fact that all teams are easily beat on defense right now. Your K2SO fails just as much as Chopper on defense or your arena rank wouldn't be all over the place. You make claims about characters you have NEVER used and then declare yourself the "winner" over and over despite the fact you have had ZERO support in this thread. Your "math" is all theoretical and you have ZERO means to prove anything you say because you simply don't have the characters. You seem to think a big meat shield is the sole purpose of Chopper in a IPD squad and ignore the turn meter aspect of the squad which Chopper puts into overdrive. You ignore the fact that Chopper's assists occur while your guys are attacking and this is a very speedy squad that gets multiple attacks in before the enemy gets a turn meanwhile K2SO has to wait for the enemy to attack to counter and your own foresights prevent counters which means even less crits for your K2SO. If the enemy is stealthed then its very likely you will see a very limited amount of counters. I fully expect you to ignore all of this and declare yourself "winner" once again like a tool.
I have already addressed every single one of these points on numerous occasions. You, however, have NEVER addressed my rebuttals with anything other than repeating the same thing again. Your points are not true, get over them. Address the rebuttals instead of repeating them or drop them. Not doing so means I win, period.
You keep coming back to my roster as if it somehow says anything about my credibility. Well guess what? It doesn't. However, bringing it up does continue to detract from YOUR credibility. It actually makes you come across as a troll.
It's other little things you do too that show you aren't actually participating in this conversation like putting math in quotation marks. As if using the listed percentages in a formula isn't actual math. You're not gaining any points with anybody by discrediting math. Get over yourself man. You can't even take apart my rebuttals, so you resort to personal insults. I ignored nothing about Chopper attacking on my turn 1/ (1 * .3 * .6 * .25) = 22.2222. He reduces ID's cd on average one out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks. That goes for all other droids too. 1 out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks he reduces their cooldowns. It's roughly every 5 or 6 attacks that he reduces a cooldown at all. It's not a very significant figure. The fact that he attacks during your turn instead of the enemy's doesn't constitute a large advantage. Your droids can not possibly go fast enough for him to reduce ID's cd any faster than K2 does since he will assist less than 1 in 3 droid attacks, which means you'd have to go 3 times to the enemy's 1 in order to actually do so.
K2 will not be stopped from countering by stealth because IPD is going to wipe stealth from the enemy before their R2 goes (unless they are also running 4 droids under JTR).
All of your points against what I am saying are simply not true. I have proven them wrong repeatedly. Disprove my rebuttals instead of just repeating yourself or you are just plain wrong, period.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
The only thing you've proven is that your roster is very limited, your mods are meh, and that you have fought Chopper while on Defense. You ignore every single argument against your claims and use jabs and insults to try to discredit those who disagree with you. Your claims against Chopper on defense ring very hollow considering the fact that all teams are easily beat on defense right now. Your K2SO fails just as much as Chopper on defense or your arena rank wouldn't be all over the place. You make claims about characters you have NEVER used and then declare yourself the "winner" over and over despite the fact you have had ZERO support in this thread. Your "math" is all theoretical and you have ZERO means to prove anything you say because you simply don't have the characters. You seem to think a big meat shield is the sole purpose of Chopper in a IPD squad and ignore the turn meter aspect of the squad which Chopper puts into overdrive. You ignore the fact that Chopper's assists occur while your guys are attacking and this is a very speedy squad that gets multiple attacks in before the enemy gets a turn meanwhile K2SO has to wait for the enemy to attack to counter and your own foresights prevent counters which means even less crits for your K2SO. If the enemy is stealthed then its very likely you will see a very limited amount of counters. I fully expect you to ignore all of this and declare yourself "winner" once again like a tool.
I have already addressed every single one of these points on numerous occasions. You, however, have NEVER addressed my rebuttals with anything other than repeating the same thing again. Your points are not true, get over them. Address the rebuttals instead of repeating them or drop them. Not doing so means I win, period.
You keep coming back to my roster as if it somehow says anything about my credibility. Well guess what? It doesn't. However, bringing it up does continue to detract from YOUR credibility. It actually makes you come across as a troll.
It's other little things you do too that show you aren't actually participating in this conversation like putting math in quotation marks. As if using the listed percentages in a formula isn't actual math. You're not gaining any points with anybody by discrediting math. Get over yourself man. You can't even take apart my rebuttals, so you resort to personal insults. I ignored nothing about Chopper attacking on my turn 1/ (1 * .3 * .6 * .25) = 22.2222. He reduces ID's cd on average one out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks. That goes for all other droids too. 1 out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks he reduces their cooldowns. It's roughly every 5 or 6 attacks that he reduces a cooldown at all. It's not a very significant figure. The fact that he attacks during your turn instead of the enemy's doesn't constitute a large advantage. Your droids can not possibly go fast enough for him to reduce ID's cd any faster than K2 does since he will assist less than 1 in 3 droid attacks, which means you'd have to go 3 times to the enemy's 1 in order to actually do so.
K2 will not be stopped from countering by stealth because IPD is going to wipe stealth from the enemy before their R2 goes (unless they are also running 4 droids under JTR).
All of your points against what I am saying are simply not true. I have proven the m wrong repeatedly. Disprove my rebuttals instead of just repeating yourself or you are just plain wrong, period.
Haha that's exactly what I thought you would say since you have posted the same thing over and over and over. You know EVERYTHING! We get it! Go ahead and declare yourself winner! Bwahahahahah!
Question, have you thought about trying any other tank besides K2SO? Looks like you ranked 22nd a few days ago. Perhaps try GK? Maybe even Chopper or Poe? Maybe Old Ben? Very hard to take you serious when you have literally no tanks to use besides K2SO. ,
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
The only thing you've proven is that your roster is very limited, your mods are meh, and that you have fought Chopper while on Defense. You ignore every single argument against your claims and use jabs and insults to try to discredit those who disagree with you. Your claims against Chopper on defense ring very hollow considering the fact that all teams are easily beat on defense right now. Your K2SO fails just as much as Chopper on defense or your arena rank wouldn't be all over the place. You make claims about characters you have NEVER used and then declare yourself the "winner" over and over despite the fact you have had ZERO support in this thread. Your "math" is all theoretical and you have ZERO means to prove anything you say because you simply don't have the characters. You seem to think a big meat shield is the sole purpose of Chopper in a IPD squad and ignore the turn meter aspect of the squad which Chopper puts into overdrive. You ignore the fact that Chopper's assists occur while your guys are attacking and this is a very speedy squad that gets multiple attacks in before the enemy gets a turn meanwhile K2SO has to wait for the enemy to attack to counter and your own foresights prevent counters which means even less crits for your K2SO. If the enemy is stealthed then its very likely you will see a very limited amount of counters. I fully expect you to ignore all of this and declare yourself "winner" once again like a tool.
I have already addressed every single one of these points on numerous occasions. You, however, have NEVER addressed my rebuttals with anything other than repeating the same thing again. Your points are not true, get over them. Address the rebuttals instead of repeating them or drop them. Not doing so means I win, period.
You keep coming back to my roster as if it somehow says anything about my credibility. Well guess what? It doesn't. However, bringing it up does continue to detract from YOUR credibility. It actually makes you come across as a troll.
It's other little things you do too that show you aren't actually participating in this conversation like putting math in quotation marks. As if using the listed percentages in a formula isn't actual math. You're not gaining any points with anybody by discrediting math. Get over yourself man. You can't even take apart my rebuttals, so you resort to personal insults. I ignored nothing about Chopper attacking on my turn 1/ (1 * .3 * .6 * .25) = 22.2222. He reduces ID's cd on average one out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks. That goes for all other droids too. 1 out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks he reduces their cooldowns. It's roughly every 5 or 6 attacks that he reduces a cooldown at all. It's not a very significant figure. The fact that he attacks during your turn instead of the enemy's doesn't constitute a large advantage. Your droids can not possibly go fast enough for him to reduce ID's cd any faster than K2 does since he will assist less than 1 in 3 droid attacks, which means you'd have to go 3 times to the enemy's 1 in order to actually do so.
K2 will not be stopped from countering by stealth because IPD is going to wipe stealth from the enemy before their R2 goes (unless they are also running 4 droids under JTR).
All of your points against what I am saying are simply not true. I have proven them wrong repeatedly. Disprove my rebuttals instead of just repeating yourself or you are just plain wrong, period.
Haha that's exactly what I thought you would say since you have posted the same thing over and over and over. You know EVERYTHING! We get it! Go ahead and declare yourself winner! Bwahahahahah!
Funny, how I actually addressed your points and you (again) didn't address mine. Looks like you just declared me the winner too.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
The only thing you've proven is that your roster is very limited, your mods are meh, and that you have fought Chopper while on Defense. You ignore every single argument against your claims and use jabs and insults to try to discredit those who disagree with you. Your claims against Chopper on defense ring very hollow considering the fact that all teams are easily beat on defense right now. Your K2SO fails just as much as Chopper on defense or your arena rank wouldn't be all over the place. You make claims about characters you have NEVER used and then declare yourself the "winner" over and over despite the fact you have had ZERO support in this thread. Your "math" is all theoretical and you have ZERO means to prove anything you say because you simply don't have the characters. You seem to think a big meat shield is the sole purpose of Chopper in a IPD squad and ignore the turn meter aspect of the squad which Chopper puts into overdrive. You ignore the fact that Chopper's assists occur while your guys are attacking and this is a very speedy squad that gets multiple attacks in before the enemy gets a turn meanwhile K2SO has to wait for the enemy to attack to counter and your own foresights prevent counters which means even less crits for your K2SO. If the enemy is stealthed then its very likely you will see a very limited amount of counters. I fully expect you to ignore all of this and declare yourself "winner" once again like a tool.
I have already addressed every single one of these points on numerous occasions. You, however, have NEVER addressed my rebuttals with anything other than repeating the same thing again. Your points are not true, get over them. Address the rebuttals instead of repeating them or drop them. Not doing so means I win, period.
You keep coming back to my roster as if it somehow says anything about my credibility. Well guess what? It doesn't. However, bringing it up does continue to detract from YOUR credibility. It actually makes you come across as a troll.
It's other little things you do too that show you aren't actually participating in this conversation like putting math in quotation marks. As if using the listed percentages in a formula isn't actual math. You're not gaining any points with anybody by discrediting math. Get over yourself man. You can't even take apart my rebuttals, so you resort to personal insults. I ignored nothing about Chopper attacking on my turn 1/ (1 * .3 * .6 * .25) = 22.2222. He reduces ID's cd on average one out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks. That goes for all other droids too. 1 out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks he reduces their cooldowns. It's roughly every 5 or 6 attacks that he reduces a cooldown at all. It's not a very significant figure. The fact that he attacks during your turn instead of the enemy's doesn't constitute a large advantage. Your droids can not possibly go fast enough for him to reduce ID's cd any faster than K2 does since he will assist less than 1 in 3 droid attacks, which means you'd have to go 3 times to the enemy's 1 in order to actually do so.
K2 will not be stopped from countering by stealth because IPD is going to wipe stealth from the enemy before their R2 goes (unless they are also running 4 droids under JTR).
All of your points against what I am saying are simply not true. I have proven them wrong repeatedly. Disprove my rebuttals instead of just repeating yourself or you are just plain wrong, period.
Haha that's exactly what I thought you would say since you have posted the same thing over and over and over. You know EVERYTHING! We get it! Go ahead and declare yourself winner! Bwahahahahah!
Funny, how I actually addressed your points and you (again) didn't address mine. Looks like you just declared me the winner too.
You should spend more time gearing up some characters and less time talking about things you have never tried.
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based onpnothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
The only thing telling here is that you keep deflecting to who I have geared instead of admitting that it doesn't constitute a lack of knowledge on how characters other than mine run on defense.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
The only thing you've proven is that your roster is very limited, your mods are meh, and that you have fought Chopper while on Defense. You ignore every single argument against your claims and use jabs and insults to try to discredit those who disagree with you. Your claims against Chopper on defense ring very hollow considering the fact that all teams are easily beat on defense right now. Your K2SO fails just as much as Chopper on defense or your arena rank wouldn't be all over the place. You make claims about characters you have NEVER used and then declare yourself the "winner" over and over despite the fact you have had ZERO support in this thread. Your "math" is all theoretical and you have ZERO means to prove anything you say because you simply don't have the characters. You seem to think a big meat shield is the sole purpose of Chopper in a IPD squad and ignore the turn meter aspect of the squad which Chopper puts into overdrive. You ignore the fact that Chopper's assists occur while your guys are attacking and this is a very speedy squad that gets multiple attacks in before the enemy gets a turn meanwhile K2SO has to wait for the enemy to attack to counter and your own foresights prevent counters which means even less crits for your K2SO. If the enemy is stealthed then its very likely you will see a very limited amount of counters. I fully expect you to ignore all of this and declare yourself "winner" once again like a tool.
I have already addressed every single one of these points on numerous occasions. You, however, have NEVER addressed my rebuttals with anything other than repeating the same thing again. Your points are not true, get over them. Address the rebuttals instead of repeating them or drop them. Not doing so means I win, period.
You keep coming back to my roster as if it somehow says anything about my credibility. Well guess what? It doesn't. However, bringing it up does continue to detract from YOUR credibility. It actually makes you come across as a troll.
It's other little things you do too that show you aren't actually participating in this conversation like putting math in quotation marks. As if using the listed percentages in a formula isn't actual math. You're not gaining any points with anybody by discrediting math. Get over yourself man. You can't even take apart my rebuttals, so you resort to personal insults. I ignored nothing about Chopper attacking on my turn 1/ (1 * .3 * .6 * .25) = 22.2222. He reduces ID's cd on average one out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks. That goes for all other droids too. 1 out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks he reduces their cooldowns. It's roughly every 5 or 6 attacks that he reduces a cooldown at all. It's not a very significant figure. The fact that he attacks during your turn instead of the enemy's doesn't constitute a large advantage. Your droids can not possibly go fast enough for him to reduce ID's cd any faster than K2 does since he will assist less than 1 in 3 droid attacks, which means you'd have to go 3 times to the enemy's 1 in order to actually do so.
K2 will not be stopped from countering by stealth because IPD is going to wipe stealth from the enemy before their R2 goes (unless they are also running 4 droids under JTR).
All of your points against what I am saying are simply not true. I have proven them wrong repeatedly. Disprove my rebuttals instead of just repeating yourself or you are just plain wrong, period.
Haha that's exactly what I thought you would say since you have posted the same thing over and over and over. You know EVERYTHING! We get it! Go ahead and declare yourself winner! Bwahahahahah!
Funny, how I actually addressed your points and you (again) didn't address mine. Looks like you just declared me the winner too.
You should spend more time gearing up some characters and less time talking about things you have never tried.
You should spend less time coming into threads to sling mud instead of actually talking about the discussion at hand.
It's one thing to go back and forth about specific arguments on team comps, but let's keep the discussion civil. Personal attacks towards are out of line. Let's keep the discussion on topic.
Replies
Fine, let's go over it one more time although I doubt you will agree with anything I have to say. So far you have simply glazed over all my valid points and go straight to your bizarre claim I have no experience on the subject because my Chopper is gear 12 and K2SO only gear 11. Meanwhile your K2SO is gear 12 and Chopper only gear 9 yet you are the expert on all things tank.
1. The thread is about a 4 droid RTJ squad using IPD and Chopper. This squad is extremely fast and each droids turn feeds TM to other characters. Chopper adds chance of assist to droids when they use an ability. If he crits ID CD is reduced and an additional chance to reduce that droids CDs as well. This assist will also buff another droid. Woodroward skimmed over this as important because ID gives these buffs. What he doesn't see is these buffs are important to speed your droids in order to use ID sooner. Chopper also adds a dispel to the squad. What woodroward skipped over is this dispel removes 10% TM per buff removed to all enemies and gives him 25% protection back per buff removed. Chopper is VERY fast and will attack much more often than K2SO and removes TM from the entire enemy squad with his special. This gives your whole squad even more turns.
2. K2SO is slow but counterattacks. If the enemy uses R2 then enemies will be stealthed... no counters. K2SO will receive foresight from R2 when he uses his stealth. This foresight will evade an attack which... you guessed it... again no counterattack. At this point he has done nothing but stand there. He will then Daze someone. If he hasn't been dazed, stunned, fractured then he is still very slow and doesn't add much beyond offense down. Sure he's tough but Chopper regenerates 25% protection per buff dispelled and gains 25% evasion while taunting. Just as tough all things considered. You have loaded up on defense mods and are super slow? Chopper can just as easily load up on the exact same defense mods and still be faster than K2SO.
I'm sure this is where Woodroward in all his wisdom will declare I have zero experience. If only I had 3 more gear pieces on K2SO then I could also know everything there is to know about this game. One can only dream I suppose.
Now I have said on numerous occasions that I would accept you facing g12 K2 in this comp as experience too, but you haven't or you'd have long since brought it up. Conversely I have faced numerous Choppers on defense so I know how he holds on D without ever having run him. You can have a bad taste in your mouth that your lack of gear on K2 is more relevant than my lack of gear on Chopper, but it doesn't change the fact that it is true.
All this is fine. I never disagreed with any of this. It makes Chopper quite excellent on offense. What I said was that those buffs have decreased value since there are other sources of them in the compostion. However, there is no other source of offense down in the comp, and another Daze is extremely useful for fighting counter attackers (CLS leads) and JTR (tm gain). The value of these debuffs supercedes the value of the buffs you have mentioned. You are wrong about one thing here. It's not THAT droid's cooldowns that get decreased, it is a random droid's cooldowns that have a chance to get decreased though it is the same random droid that gets the buff.
If it was the same droid that he assisted, the value of this would be much higher than it is. As it is, a 30% chance to assist with a 60% chance to reduce cooldowns and 4 droids in composition means that, 1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 which means one out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks will result in this ability decreasing ID's CD. It is really not a very impressive stat. As for Chopper's buff wipe, it really shouldn't do that much with IPD in comp since he will be preventing the enemy from gaining buffs anyway, which means the tm removal he does will be not much and not often. It's real benefit is in that it can stun droids.
IPD will Aoe buff wipe all that stealth his first turn and leave the people with buff immunity which means no stealth and no foresight. There's nothing to prevent K2S0 from countering the enemies by the time they get to go because of the increased tm this team will have to start thanks to BB8's unique.
If he doesn't counterattack occasionally, so what? 30% chance to assist means that unless you are getting more than 3 turns to the enemy's 1, 97.6% counter chance means that K2 will have more out of turn attacks than chopper. BB8 goes roughly 2 times for each enemy turn since he gives himself 50% tm every time he goes. R2 will go far less than that.
There is tm gain from exposes to consider, but 10% tm per exposes that more or less only appear when a resistance ally crits means that their isn't usually enough tm gain to increase this much. Sure, every 3rd turn of Reys you can land 3 exposes for 30% tm, but the next she'll land none. r2 can land 5 one turn, but none the next when he stealths. BB8 should never land exposes on his turn. That means a maximum of 9 exposes between R2 and JTR's 5 turns for about 18% tm gain on average for resistance outside of JTR. so we're talking now this will happen during several of BB8's turns so we're looking at more like a 9% tm gain for him each turn on average compared to the 18% for R2.
Neither one of those numbers is sufficient to make them go 3 times for every enemy turn, which means that k2 will attack more times out of turn than Chopper will, and therefore reduce ID's CD more than Chopper will. Now he will take slightly more turns than K2, which ends up evening them out on ID CD reductions. K2 won't attack out of turn only once more than Chopper for every 23 attacks, it will be significantly more than that.
Buff immunity doesn't stop K2 thanks to R2, Debuffs don't significantly lower his counter chance (outside of Daze and Stun which are just as detrimental to Chopper) for the same reason. Stealth is a non-issue thanks to IPD. Him not taunting isn't an issue thanks to BB8's Secret Intel. All of K2's big weaknesses pretty much don't apply in the proposed composition.
And you had to throw in a personal attack at the end that again puts things in my mouth that I never even implied. Thanks for actually attempting to contribute though.
EDITED to fix math and eliminate walls of text.
Can you do me a favor and go over your math on this. I'm sure I'm messing up somewhere, but I'm getting a higher percentage than 1 out of every 24 assists reducing the cooldown for ID. Thanks!
Edit to fix quote
1 / (1 * .3 * .6 * .25 )= 22.222222 So I guess it is really more like one out of every 22 or 23 attacks on average. I was rounding before.
Ahh, see there's where I'm differing. If Chopper is already assisting, I'm not counting his 30% chance to count again.
Also, there's only three droids who are subject to getting their cooldowns reduced. So for me I did 1/ (1 * .6 * .3333333). So for that, each time he Chopper does assist, there's actually a 20% chance to reduce the cooldown on ID.
Edit to fix mess
He can reduce his own cooldowns as well, so it is 1 out of 4 droids that can have their CDs reduced. My original assertion was one out of every 24 attacks by a droid will result in Chopper reducing a cooldown, not one out of 24 assists. I misworded it in the quoted post. Thanks for correcting me. I have edited the post to reflect the correct math instead.
Where I went wrong is I assumed it was the same droid that received the buff got the cooldown.
So essentially I was totally wrong on my math like I originally thought lol.
Well those are both the same, but it isn't necessarily the same droid he assisted on, If it was BB8 would have ID reduced a lot more due to how often he goes.
This is all RNG based too, so you could have runs where Chopper assists every droid attack, and always targets BB8 with his special as well as reducing his CD, but that's an RNGesus moment. I find the average to be a more reliable way to interpret it myself.
Regardless, K2SO only reduces ID CDs when he crits which Chopper also does. This is the part where you decide that part doesn't matter. You also ignore the fact that even if Chopper reduces the CDs of a different droid this still greatly benefits your squad. You also ignore the fact that K2SO only has 1 special instead of 2 lile chopper. Sure, Choppers specials have longer CDs but once he has gone twice and used both specials IDs CDs is likely at 0.
Look man, until you actually use Chopper I never expect you to get it. I've used K2SO. You seem to think his mechanics are beyond me because my gear is only 11. That is the weakest and most absurd of all your claims. The worst part is you believe this logic only applies to others and not you and your ungeared chopper and well honestly... all but maybe 6 of your characters are undergeared. By your own logic you know how to use a total of what... 6 characters?
What's absurd is that you don't get my objection. NOTHING of what I have said has EVER been about offense. Offense is entirely irrelevant in my book. Because of your K2's lack of gear, R2 doesn't target him to leave out of stealth when the AI is controlling him. When it comes down to it, I could never run Chopper in this comp for the rest of my life and I will still know how he performs on defense because I have played against him. Until you gear up K2 to g12, you will not know how he performs on Defense because he won't perform right, and even feedback from your shardmates will mean nothing.
To put it another way: Who cares about offense when they both demolish whoever they come up against?
I have no lamebrained objection like his mechanics are beyond you. My objection is that the AI will not use the team right until you do this. I don't care if you know how to run K2 right. The AI will not run the team right because you don't have him geared enough.
My logic has never once said that you don't know how to use K2S0. Nor has it said that I know how to use Chopper as well as you. Quit trying to turn my objections into something they are not and admit you know nothing about how K2 performs on D under JTR when he is G12.
Who would possibly think that a g11 tank could be as effective as a g12 tank? Why are you trying to insert use of an undergeared character on offense as just as relevant as my experience fighting g12 choppers that are on defense when in order for this team to truly be analyze for effectiveness defense is all that matters (since we've already established that both work very well on offense)?
Until you actually realize that me running Chopper will not change my experience with how well he performs on defense one iota, you will continue to be trying to correct me based on nothing.
This is pointless. I have zero intention of using K2SO so he's not gear 12. If I had any desire at all to use him then of course I would bring him to 12. For you to even suggest otherwise is pretty telling.
Here's an idea... why don't you try some other characters? It's kinda hard to take anything you say seriously when you only have experience using a few characters. K2SO may seem like an amazing tank to you and I admit that he's not bad but until you actually play the characters you are talking about then your talk is just that... all talk.
We're talking about defense here. Who I have played against is just as, if not more relevant than who I have played. I don't care if you decide to run K2 or not. That's never been my issue. I am not trying to convince you to run him. The problem is you acting like K2 fanboyism is the only thing driving my response when I have actual real objections to what you are saying based on mechanics, AI, and experience.
I never "suggested" anything to you other than you can't truly say how he performs on defense without gearing him up. If you don't want to run him, cool. Don't try and come off like the master of all knowledge. Get off your high horse and admit you haven't done it and quit badmouthing me while you are at it. Me pointing out that you haven't geared him up and ran him to see how he does is not me badmouthing you or being a k2 fanboy no matter how many times you try and spin that argument.
Why don't you just admit you misinterpreted pretty much everything I have been talking about and badmouthed me based on baseless assumptions instead of continuing to double down even though you are lacking in the necessary experience to truly have a debate on this issue? It's pretty much the only way you are going to come out of this with your dignity intact at this point.
Bwahahah! Please no more! It never ends!
Cease your bickering or the restraining bolts will be reinstalled.
Aye. It will never end. You are speaking down to me when you don't know what you are talking about. I can't believe you desire to continue to humiliate yourself this way.
I've proven you wrong with math. I've corrected your mistakenly obtuse opinions of the things I've been saying. The things you keep coming back to are: K2 must crit. So must Chopper. It applies to both, therefore it is irrelevant. And the fact that I don't have Chopper geared.
Explain to me how playing against him doesn't show me what he's like on defense and I'll admit defeat. If you can't or don't, then you will have proven the irrelevance of your insistence upon this point whether or not you admit it.
(protip: you'll come out of this looking better if you admit rather than not)
If you reply with anything else... well I guess you should just remove the letters 'sbane' from your name there bub.
In discussing this with D Wayne and Mzungu, another very important bit is that chopper has to be fully geared....all G12 bits. His gains are significant fully geared.
https://swgoh.gg/characters/gear11-12/
Name Protection Health
G11 > 12 Diff % Diff # G11 > 12 Diff % Diff #
Chopper 22304 > 29738 33.33 7434 18314 > 31708 73.14 13394
Here are two people running it with a lot of success. Mzungu is my guild mate, and D Wayne is someone I have been talking to on discord on this and has been very helpful with his feedback (thank you if you are reading this!):
https://swgoh.gg/u/dw /
https://swgoh.gg/u/mzungu/
One final bit, protection is huge on them....to the point where a protection arrow instead of a speed arrow (primary stat) is used by D Wayne.
You've proven nothing except how rediculous and rude you are. It is very clear how little you know and how much you THINK you know. You think very highly of yourself although you've accomplished very little. Congrats on getting a few characters to gear 12. Those few characters are likely the very best at everything.
That's a good point. G12 is very important for your taunter, as is stacking more survivability.
Do you know what type of mod sets they prefer? I ask because I recently made a thread on what gives the highest survivability to your tank toon:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/154228/defense-vs-health-protection#latest
As for the other: thread title is team droids on roids... the new META? Talking about an alternative droid to the original composition is on topic, though I have nothing more to say on that topic at this moment.
You've proven nothing except how little experience you have with this game. You have a very limited roster of characters. Your mods are meh. You talk about experience with Chopper based on the fact that you have fought against him while on offense but you ignore the fact that all squads are easily beatable while on Defense. Your K2SO obviously loses just as easily on defense or else your arena rank wouldn't be all over the place.
You keep claiming you "win" although just about everything you say is completely one-sided and you ignore every argument against your claim and go right into your "victory speech". It's almost as if you need to prove to yourself that your one tank isn't just mediocre... which he is.
I've ignored nothing man. I have responded with rebuttals based on experience, math, and AI. You, however, have simply repeated that I haven't done this or that while it is irrelevant... which I proved by math, experience, and AI. There's only one of us ignoring points.
Again, I never cared about offense. Not all teams are easily beatable on defense, and now you have proven you are naught but a troll. Thanks for doing so. You just can't help but insult me to try and prove you are right. Well, you're not. The fact that you are insulting me pretty much confirms it.
Thanks for playing and losing, goodbye!
The only thing you've proven is that your roster is very limited, your mods are meh, and that you have fought Chopper while on Defense. You ignore every single argument against your claims and use jabs and insults to try to discredit those who disagree with you. Your claims against Chopper on defense ring very hollow considering the fact that all teams are easily beat on defense right now. Your K2SO fails just as much as Chopper on defense or your arena rank wouldn't be all over the place. You make claims about characters you have NEVER used and then declare yourself the "winner" over and over despite the fact you have had ZERO support in this thread. Your "math" is all theoretical and you have ZERO means to prove anything you say because you simply don't have the characters. You seem to think a big meat shield is the sole purpose of Chopper in a IPD squad and ignore the turn meter aspect of the squad which Chopper puts into overdrive. You ignore the fact that Chopper's assists occur while your guys are attacking and this is a very speedy squad that gets multiple attacks in before the enemy gets a turn meanwhile K2SO has to wait for the enemy to attack to counter and your own foresights prevent counters which means even less crits for your K2SO. If the enemy is stealthed then its very likely you will see a very limited amount of counters. I fully expect you to ignore all of this and declare yourself "winner" once again like a tool.
I have already addressed every single one of these points on numerous occasions. You, however, have NEVER addressed my rebuttals with anything other than repeating the same thing again. Your points are not true, get over them. Address the rebuttals instead of repeating them or drop them. Not doing so means I win, period.
You keep coming back to my roster as if it somehow says anything about my credibility. Well guess what? It doesn't. However, bringing it up does continue to detract from YOUR credibility. It actually makes you come across as a troll.
It's other little things you do too that show you aren't actually participating in this conversation like putting math in quotation marks. As if using the listed percentages in a formula isn't actual math. You're not gaining any points with anybody by discrediting math. Get over yourself man. You can't even take apart my rebuttals, so you resort to personal insults. I ignored nothing about Chopper attacking on my turn 1/ (1 * .3 * .6 * .25) = 22.2222. He reduces ID's cd on average one out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks. That goes for all other droids too. 1 out of every 22 or 23 droid attacks he reduces their cooldowns. It's roughly every 5 or 6 attacks that he reduces a cooldown at all. It's not a very significant figure. The fact that he attacks during your turn instead of the enemy's doesn't constitute a large advantage. Your droids can not possibly go fast enough for him to reduce ID's cd any faster than K2 does since he will assist less than 1 in 3 droid attacks, which means you'd have to go 3 times to the enemy's 1 in order to actually do so.
K2 will not be stopped from countering by stealth because IPD is going to wipe stealth from the enemy before their R2 goes (unless they are also running 4 droids under JTR).
All of your points against what I am saying are simply not true. I have proven them wrong repeatedly. Disprove my rebuttals instead of just repeating yourself or you are just plain wrong, period.
Haha that's exactly what I thought you would say since you have posted the same thing over and over and over. You know EVERYTHING! We get it! Go ahead and declare yourself winner! Bwahahahahah!
Question, have you thought about trying any other tank besides K2SO? Looks like you ranked 22nd a few days ago. Perhaps try GK? Maybe even Chopper or Poe? Maybe Old Ben? Very hard to take you serious when you have literally no tanks to use besides K2SO. ,
Funny, how I actually addressed your points and you (again) didn't address mine. Looks like you just declared me the winner too.
You should spend more time gearing up some characters and less time talking about things you have never tried.
You should spend less time coming into threads to sling mud instead of actually talking about the discussion at hand.