As an impartial observer, I would say that posting profiles to compare in this case is sort of silly, as one appears to be FTP and the other, well, I would think G12 Grievous is a luxury many FTP'ers do not have. Just sayin.
At what gear levels?
Did you try them both at the same time? (K2 doesn't work that well with another taunter in the group)
Trollsbane has a k2 that is modded very poorly, and g11 K2 compared to g12 K2 may as well not be called a tank. I know because I was running him as a tank at g11, but he wasn't really that tanky.
The guy is a beast. He's an awesome tank. He's always first to die, but not until the opponents have several dead... The other JTR's Kenobi and Rey usually both die before he does. He's usually the only one that dies (if any).
People don't seem to get how crucial that Smoke Screen on K2 is. You don't want it on R2 or JTR. On defense it will always go to one of those two. A fractured JTR or R2 and your team is not holding on defense... That is never a concern with K2 in the group. He fixes their defense. No other droid can.
Lack of details more or less makes your opinion seem not important.
As I have stated numerous times in this thread. I haven't tried chopper, but I've played against him, and he's junk on defense.
I didn't unlock JTR so cannot speak to offense. JTR / RJT has become the predominant lead in our shard (Dec 2016 / Jan 2017) with still some CLS and even a few GK / Zarris hold outs. We have fortunately not been inflicted with the NS pox.
I can say that beating JTR teams isn't all that challenging provided you have a clear path to fracture her. Anything that gets in the way of that clear path and starts the little ball bobbling with his repetitive pointless buff (other than to get to his mega-buff special) makes these teams more challenging. We mostly see Kenobi as a tank with either Han, Old Ben, Chopper or Thrawn as the fifth. The Old Ben and Chopper teams are pretty similar in nature - in either case there's usually a pretty clear path to Rey through a variety of dispels (I still run Baze exactly for this reason) - K2 would definitely change that as the fifth in that comp, since he would require CLS' buff immunity and now we're getting RNG-ish on whether or not Rey has lost stealth while GK's taunt is down so Thrawn has a path to fracture her. Chopper comps are pretty easy, you just need to wait the extra turn for Chopper's taunt to clear and because he's so fast and getting TM, you don't have to wait long. Pretty much the same with OB, but he can be sped up by Thrawn. K2's ability to regain that taunt on counter, requiring that buff immunity instead of being more selective about it's use depending on how the match unfolds....could be cause for trouble.
Either way, theory crafting is nice, and watching that theory crafting devolve the way this thread did is a little sad given the contributors' obvious passion for the game, it sounds like an apples to apples comparison (gear and mods) of the two comps would be the only answer.
As an impartial observer, I would say that posting profiles to compare in this case is sort of silly, as one appears to be FTP and the other, well, I would think G12 Grievous is a luxury many FTP'ers do not have. Just sayin.
I didn't unlock JTR so cannot speak to offense. JTR / RJT has become the predominant lead in our shard (Dec 2016 / Jan 2017) with still some CLS and even a few GK / Zarris hold outs. We have fortunately not been inflicted with the NS pox.
I can say that beating JTR teams isn't all that challenging provided you have a clear path to fracture her. Anything that gets in the way of that clear path and starts the little ball bobbling with his repetitive pointless buff (other than to get to his mega-buff special) makes these teams more challenging. We mostly see Kenobi as a tank with either Han, Old Ben, Chopper or Thrawn as the fifth. The Old Ben and Chopper teams are pretty similar in nature - in either case there's usually a pretty clear path to Rey through a variety of dispels (I still run Baze exactly for this reason) - K2 would definitely change that as the fifth in that comp, since he would require CLS' buff immunity and now we're getting RNG-ish on whether or not Rey has lost stealth while GK's taunt is down so Thrawn has a path to fracture her. Chopper comps are pretty easy, you just need to wait the extra turn for Chopper's taunt to clear and because he's so fast and getting TM, you don't have to wait long. Pretty much the same with OB, but he can be sped up by Thrawn. K2's ability to regain that taunt on counter, requiring that buff immunity instead of being more selective about it's use depending on how the match unfolds....could be cause for trouble.
Either way, theory crafting is nice, and watching that theory crafting devolve the way this thread did is a little sad given the contributors' obvious passion for the game, it sounds like an apples to apples comparison (gear and mods) of the two comps would be the only answer.
Not theorycrafting for me. I actually run K2 with my JTR in my arena squad. Buff immunity doesn't actually stop K2 either because R2's auto cleanse when he crits. K2 gets buff immunity, counters, crits, loses buff immunity and gains taunt. You have to daze him... and even then, you're still stuck attacking him usually because everyone else is stealthed.
Right, but theory crafting for you on the Chopper side to be fair, as your Chopper isn't as well geared as your K2 and you're speculating how he performs as opposed to knowing.
This is where you say - "fair point" and retain credibility :-)
Right, but theory crafting for you on the Chopper side to be fair, as your Chopper isn't as well geared as your K2 and you're speculating how he performs as opposed to knowing.
This is where you say - "fair point" and retain credibility :-)
Eh, I've been mainly talking about how they hold on defense. I've fought plenty. Having my chopper geared wouldn't help that. I have gotten lots of feedback from my many shardmates on how my K2 holds on D though.
Like I say, it's not theorycrafting.
Conversation started by me pointing out his virtues for defense. Someone said ID procs way faster with Chopper. I disagreed. I've seen a plethora of videos, and my ID procs as fast and as many times. I don't have to have even tried Chopper for the things I have been saying to be more than theory.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
No, the original point was that k2 is better than chopper for the team. I was challenged on that on the basis that chopper reaches id faster.
I asserted that is not true, and pointed out all the ways that K2 protects the team better.
I mean, let's be honest here. If you have JTR and can't get to the top, chances are your problem isn't composition, so offense with both is largely irrelevant.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
No, the original point was that k2 is better than chopper for the team. I was challenged on that on the basis that chopper reaches id faster.
I asserted that is not true, and pointed out all the ways that K2 protects the team better.
I mean, let's be honest here. If you have JTR and can't get to the top, chances are your problem isn't composition, so offense with both is largely irrelevant.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
But your assertion was baseless, given that you haven't tested Chopper adequately. I feel like you're just arguing to argue now, given that you conclude with the exact point I started my last post with.
You like K2-SO. Chopper users (I'm one) like chopper. Let's leave it at that.
So you're on an old inactive shard. In what way does that make you right?
Your shard is inactive for certain because you only have 3 people in your rotation and are still in your rank 10 minutes after your payout.
To me that says your server is less competitive than mine by far. There's 6 in my payout 6 before, 3 after. People get knocked from their ranks as soon as their payout is over on my server.
I don't know why you have to turn this into a lame contest between us rather than just admit that your math was flawed and that you haven't ran k2 in arena with jtr so have literally nothing to base your opinion on.
You thought I was just some lame theorycrafter instead of an experienced player, but have to much pride to back out and see this as a battle.
You literally lost all credibility in this argument as soon as you resorted to smack talking.
Since you think you can judge me by my swgoh.gg profile, the only part you need look at is whether I've been running k2 with JTR and whether I make the top 10. How's it feel to have someone try to use your GG profile that backs up everything you've said in an attempt to discredit you?
Feels underhanded, doesn't it?
Just admit you don't know what you're talking about with k2 under Rey and move on.
Give it up man! What do you want? Do you want me to lie to you and say that K2SO is the absolute best tank in the game for all purposes at all times? Do you realize that your "math" is you just making a ton of assumptions about chopper even though you clearly have NEVER used him? Do you also realize that this thread is about a RJT squad using Imperial Probe Droid? Your "awesome" squad is just the cookie cutter RJT, R2, BB8, CLS, GK squad that every player tried when they unlocked RJT except you don't even have GK unlocked. Why don't you try other characters instead of trying to convince those of us that have experimented that you are right and I am wrong. Everything that you say is fact is actually you just talking about things you have never tried.
I used K2SO back when he was relevant. Did you use Chopper? I used him also. Oh, you watched some videos? Did you happen to watch the videos in this very thread that show chopper doing an excellent job of being a tank? You should watch them again since that's where you get all of your knowledge.
You don't like my K2SO mods? It's because I have him benched you noob. You think my arena shard is less competitive than yours because I'm at rank 3? How do you even come up with that noise? Maybe if you weren't running K2SO you wouldn't drop rank instantly. For someone who has spent very little time testing characters and how they interact in different squads you sure do think you know everything.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
Sounds like a challenge! Oh wait... turns out I already have K2SO gear 11 and I'm not scared to actually try both tanks. Can you say the same? Are you going to step up and prove all of your assumptions by gearing and testing Chopper? Or are you going to just pretend that you know what's up when you're really just guessing based on some anonymous mystery video that only you saw? You say over and over that you are a experienced player... it's time to step up and show us.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
No, the original point was that k2 is better than chopper for the team. I was challenged on that on the basis that chopper reaches id faster.
I asserted that is not true, and pointed out all the ways that K2 protects the team better.
I mean, let's be honest here. If you have JTR and can't get to the top, chances are your problem isn't composition, so offense with both is largely irrelevant.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
But your assertion was baseless, given that you haven't tested Chopper adequately. I feel like you're just arguing to argue now, given that you conclude with the exact point I started my last post with.
You like K2-SO. Chopper users (I'm one) like chopper. Let's leave it at that.
See that's just it. MY statements weren't baseless. I've fought against RJT squads with chopper and have gotten feedback on RJT with k2.
My statements have always been coming from a defensive standpoint... Which makes whether or not I've played with him irrelevant
So you're on an old inactive shard. In what way does that make you right?
Your shard is inactive for certain because you only have 3 people in your rotation and are still in your rank 10 minutes after your payout.
To me that says your server is less competitive than mine by far. There's 6 in my payout 6 before, 3 after. People get knocked from their ranks as soon as their payout is over on my server.
I don't know why you have to turn this into a lame contest between us rather than just admit that your math was flawed and that you haven't ran k2 in arena with jtr so have literally nothing to base your opinion on.
You thought I was just some lame theorycrafter instead of an experienced player, but have to much pride to back out and see this as a battle.
You literally lost all credibility in this argument as soon as you resorted to smack talking.
Since you think you can judge me by my swgoh.gg profile, the only part you need look at is whether I've been running k2 with JTR and whether I make the top 10. How's it feel to have someone try to use your GG profile that backs up everything you've said in an attempt to discredit you?
Feels underhanded, doesn't it?
Just admit you don't know what you're talking about with k2 under Rey and move on.
Give it up man! What do you want? Do you want me to lie to you and say that K2SO is the absolute best tank in the game for all purposes at all times? Do you realize that your "math" is you just making a ton of assumptions about chopper even though you clearly have NEVER used him? Do you also realize that this thread is about a RJT squad using Imperial Probe Droid? Your "awesome" squad is just the cookie cutter RJT, R2, BB8, CLS, GK squad that every player tried when they unlocked RJT except you don't even have GK unlocked. Why don't you try other characters instead of trying to convince those of us that have experimented that you are right and I am wrong. Everything that you say is fact is actually you just talking about things you have never tried.
I used K2SO back when he was relevant. Did you use Chopper? I used him also. Oh, you watched some videos? Did you happen to watch the videos in this very thread that show chopper doing an excellent job of being a tank? You should watch them again since that's where you get all of your knowledge.
You don't like my K2SO mods? It's because I have him benched you noob. You think my arena shard is less competitive than yours because I'm at rank 3? How do you even come up with that noise? Maybe if you weren't running K2SO you wouldn't drop rank instantly. For someone who has spent very little time testing characters and how they interact in different squads you sure do think you know everything.
Also, your defense mods made me chuckle....
I watched many videos and saw chopper squads proccing id no faster than I did (I counted turns)
I never said my squad was awesome. I said k2 was awesome with JTR. With ipd's aoe buff wipe, he'd be even better.
You have k2 benched, which is exactly why you're not qualified to have been making the statements you have about him on offense, even though the whole point of this conversation is what's best for the team... Which means better on defense not offense.
Whether or not I've run chopper is irrelevant to the actual point of this discussion on top of the fact that the videos give me all the info I need on his effectiveness on offense.
If you actually read my post you would see that my comments about your rank weren't serious and only intended to show you how pointless your comments about mine were.
I don't want you to acknowledge k2 as anything other than outside your realm of experience when it comes to JTR.
Chuckle at my defense mods all you want, repeated testing with all sorts of different setups has shown them to make him extremely effective. If you'd done the same, you might not have ended up benching him
Now please quit arguing about something you know nothing about and admit your ignorance.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
Sounds like a challenge! Oh wait... turns out I already have K2SO gear 11 and I'm not scared to actually try both tanks. Can you say the same? Are you going to step up and prove all of your assumptions by gearing and testing Chopper? Or are you going to just pretend that you know what's up when you're really just guessing based on some anonymous mystery video that only you saw? You say over and over that you are a experienced player... it's time to step up and show us.
Didn't you read? G12... Not g11.
And it's about defense. If you're up for it, gear him to 12 and let others try your squad then get feedback Then you'll actually have experience to back up your statements and I'll be satisfied with that regardless of the result.
My insistence on g12 isn't just to make it hard on you. Without doing so r2 will not smoke screen K2, which is a huge part of why he is better on d and hence better for the team.
As for me gearing up chopper, this is still irrelevant, I've fought against chopper under jtr plenty of times, so I already have the experience necessary to know what I'm talking about.
Man this is like a brow beating contest at this point.
I think the overall point is that both chopper and k2 will work. Can yall leave it at that? cause with this back n forth slight derailment this thread is most likely heading for the dumpster.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
No, the original point was that k2 is better than chopper for the team. I was challenged on that on the basis that chopper reaches id faster.
I asserted that is not true, and pointed out all the ways that K2 protects the team better.
I mean, let's be honest here. If you have JTR and can't get to the top, chances are your problem isn't composition, so offense with both is largely irrelevant.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
But your assertion was baseless, given that you haven't tested Chopper adequately. I feel like you're just arguing to argue now, given that you conclude with the exact point I started my last post with.
You like K2-SO. Chopper users (I'm one) like chopper. Let's leave it at that.
See that's just it. MY statements weren't baseless. I've fought against RJT squads with chopper and have gotten feedback on RJT with k2.
My statements have always been coming from a defensive standpoint... Which makes whether or not I've played with him irrelevant
So you're on an old inactive shard. In what way does that make you right?
Your shard is inactive for certain because you only have 3 people in your rotation and are still in your rank 10 minutes after your payout.
To me that says your server is less competitive than mine by far. There's 6 in my payout 6 before, 3 after. People get knocked from their ranks as soon as their payout is over on my server.
I don't know why you have to turn this into a lame contest between us rather than just admit that your math was flawed and that you haven't ran k2 in arena with jtr so have literally nothing to base your opinion on.
You thought I was just some lame theorycrafter instead of an experienced player, but have to much pride to back out and see this as a battle.
You literally lost all credibility in this argument as soon as you resorted to smack talking.
Since you think you can judge me by my swgoh.gg profile, the only part you need look at is whether I've been running k2 with JTR and whether I make the top 10. How's it feel to have someone try to use your GG profile that backs up everything you've said in an attempt to discredit you?
Feels underhanded, doesn't it?
Just admit you don't know what you're talking about with k2 under Rey and move on.
Give it up man! What do you want? Do you want me to lie to you and say that K2SO is the absolute best tank in the game for all purposes at all times? Do you realize that your "math" is you just making a ton of assumptions about chopper even though you clearly have NEVER used him? Do you also realize that this thread is about a RJT squad using Imperial Probe Droid? Your "awesome" squad is just the cookie cutter RJT, R2, BB8, CLS, GK squad that every player tried when they unlocked RJT except you don't even have GK unlocked. Why don't you try other characters instead of trying to convince those of us that have experimented that you are right and I am wrong. Everything that you say is fact is actually you just talking about things you have never tried.
I used K2SO back when he was relevant. Did you use Chopper? I used him also. Oh, you watched some videos? Did you happen to watch the videos in this very thread that show chopper doing an excellent job of being a tank? You should watch them again since that's where you get all of your knowledge.
You don't like my K2SO mods? It's because I have him benched you noob. You think my arena shard is less competitive than yours because I'm at rank 3? How do you even come up with that noise? Maybe if you weren't running K2SO you wouldn't drop rank instantly. For someone who has spent very little time testing characters and how they interact in different squads you sure do think you know everything.
Also, your defense mods made me chuckle....
You have k2 benched, which is exactly why you're not qualified to have been making the statements you have about him on offense, even though the whole point of this conversation is what's best for the team... Which means better on defense not offense.
Whether or not I've run chopper is irrelevant to the actual point of this discussion on top of the fact that the videos give me all the info I need on his effectiveness on offense.
This right here is your problem. You claim I am not qualified to talk about K2SO because I am not currently running him in my arena squad yet you not running Chopper... or even having him geared is irrelevant. You are so full of it.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
No, the original point was that k2 is better than chopper for the team. I was challenged on that on the basis that chopper reaches id faster.
I asserted that is not true, and pointed out all the ways that K2 protects the team better.
I mean, let's be honest here. If you have JTR and can't get to the top, chances are your problem isn't composition, so offense with both is largely irrelevant.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
But your assertion was baseless, given that you haven't tested Chopper adequately. I feel like you're just arguing to argue now, given that you conclude with the exact point I started my last post with.
You like K2-SO. Chopper users (I'm one) like chopper. Let's leave it at that.
See that's just it. MY statements weren't baseless. I've fought against RJT squads with chopper and have gotten feedback on RJT with k2.
My statements have always been coming from a defensive standpoint... Which makes whether or not I've played with him irrelevant
So you're on an old inactive shard. In what way does that make you right?
Your shard is inactive for certain because you only have 3 people in your rotation and are still in your rank 10 minutes after your payout.
To me that says your server is less competitive than mine by far. There's 6 in my payout 6 before, 3 after. People get knocked from their ranks as soon as their payout is over on my server.
I don't know why you have to turn this into a lame contest between us rather than just admit that your math was flawed and that you haven't ran k2 in arena with jtr so have literally nothing to base your opinion on.
You thought I was just some lame theorycrafter instead of an experienced player, but have to much pride to back out and see this as a battle.
You literally lost all credibility in this argument as soon as you resorted to smack talking.
Since you think you can judge me by my swgoh.gg profile, the only part you need look at is whether I've been running k2 with JTR and whether I make the top 10. How's it feel to have someone try to use your GG profile that backs up everything you've said in an attempt to discredit you?
Feels underhanded, doesn't it?
Just admit you don't know what you're talking about with k2 under Rey and move on.
Give it up man! What do you want? Do you want me to lie to you and say that K2SO is the absolute best tank in the game for all purposes at all times? Do you realize that your "math" is you just making a ton of assumptions about chopper even though you clearly have NEVER used him? Do you also realize that this thread is about a RJT squad using Imperial Probe Droid? Your "awesome" squad is just the cookie cutter RJT, R2, BB8, CLS, GK squad that every player tried when they unlocked RJT except you don't even have GK unlocked. Why don't you try other characters instead of trying to convince those of us that have experimented that you are right and I am wrong. Everything that you say is fact is actually you just talking about things you have never tried.
I used K2SO back when he was relevant. Did you use Chopper? I used him also. Oh, you watched some videos? Did you happen to watch the videos in this very thread that show chopper doing an excellent job of being a tank? You should watch them again since that's where you get all of your knowledge.
You don't like my K2SO mods? It's because I have him benched you noob. You think my arena shard is less competitive than yours because I'm at rank 3? How do you even come up with that noise? Maybe if you weren't running K2SO you wouldn't drop rank instantly. For someone who has spent very little time testing characters and how they interact in different squads you sure do think you know everything.
Also, your defense mods made me chuckle....
You have k2 benched, which is exactly why you're not qualified to have been making the statements you have about him on offense, even though the whole point of this conversation is what's best for the team... Which means better on defense not offense.
Whether or not I've run chopper is irrelevant to the actual point of this discussion on top of the fact that the videos give me all the info I need on his effectiveness on offense.
This right here is your problem. You claim I am not qualified to talk about K2SO because I am not currently running him in my arena squad yet you not running Chopper... or even having him geared is irrelevant. You are so full of it.
No, I claim you are not qualified to talk about k2 under JTR because you haven't faced that OR run him and gotten feedback. Either would do, but it's obvious you haven't faced a g12 k2 under JTR or you wouldn't be saying what you are.
Man this is like a brow beating contest at this point.
I think the overall point is that both chopper and k2 will work. Can yall leave it at that? cause with this back n forth slight derailment this thread is most likely heading for the dumpster.
Don't you see? Woodroward wants to make this thread about K2SO. I'm simply trying to support the thread by showing the original squad that was discussed is in fact very well put together and Chopper looks amazing in it.
Man this is like a brow beating contest at this point.
I think the overall point is that both chopper and k2 will work. Can yall leave it at that? cause with this back n forth slight derailment this thread is most likely heading for the dumpster.
Don't you see? Woodroward wants to make this thread about K2SO. I'm simply trying to support the thread by showing the original squad that was discussed is in fact very well put together and Chopper looks amazing in it.
Whatever man. You came into this thread to talk smack about k2 with no experience in either facing or running him under JTR. That's the problem.
You may not like that my experience is only in facing chopper, but that's the only relevant part as far as I'm concerned, defense. Regardless, I still have SOME experience with both characters in question here and you don't.
If you had ANY experience with k2 under JTR, this conversation wouldn't have gone the way it has.
I will never submit to someone whose points are coming from a position of complete ignorance. Mine are not.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
No, the original point was that k2 is better than chopper for the team. I was challenged on that on the basis that chopper reaches id faster.
I asserted that is not true, and pointed out all the ways that K2 protects the team better.
I mean, let's be honest here. If you have JTR and can't get to the top, chances are your problem isn't composition, so offense with both is largely irrelevant.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
But your assertion was baseless, given that you haven't tested Chopper adequately. I feel like you're just arguing to argue now, given that you conclude with the exact point I started my last post with.
You like K2-SO. Chopper users (I'm one) like chopper. Let's leave it at that.
See that's just it. MY statements weren't baseless. I've fought against RJT squads with chopper and have gotten feedback on RJT with k2.
My statements have always been coming from a defensive standpoint... Which makes whether or not I've played with him irrelevant
So you're on an old inactive shard. In what way does that make you right?
Your shard is inactive for certain because you only have 3 people in your rotation and are still in your rank 10 minutes after your payout.
To me that says your server is less competitive than mine by far. There's 6 in my payout 6 before, 3 after. People get knocked from their ranks as soon as their payout is over on my server.
I don't know why you have to turn this into a lame contest between us rather than just admit that your math was flawed and that you haven't ran k2 in arena with jtr so have literally nothing to base your opinion on.
You thought I was just some lame theorycrafter instead of an experienced player, but have to much pride to back out and see this as a battle.
You literally lost all credibility in this argument as soon as you resorted to smack talking.
Since you think you can judge me by my swgoh.gg profile, the only part you need look at is whether I've been running k2 with JTR and whether I make the top 10. How's it feel to have someone try to use your GG profile that backs up everything you've said in an attempt to discredit you?
Feels underhanded, doesn't it?
Just admit you don't know what you're talking about with k2 under Rey and move on.
Give it up man! What do you want? Do you want me to lie to you and say that K2SO is the absolute best tank in the game for all purposes at all times? Do you realize that your "math" is you just making a ton of assumptions about chopper even though you clearly have NEVER used him? Do you also realize that this thread is about a RJT squad using Imperial Probe Droid? Your "awesome" squad is just the cookie cutter RJT, R2, BB8, CLS, GK squad that every player tried when they unlocked RJT except you don't even have GK unlocked. Why don't you try other characters instead of trying to convince those of us that have experimented that you are right and I am wrong. Everything that you say is fact is actually you just talking about things you have never tried.
I used K2SO back when he was relevant. Did you use Chopper? I used him also. Oh, you watched some videos? Did you happen to watch the videos in this very thread that show chopper doing an excellent job of being a tank? You should watch them again since that's where you get all of your knowledge.
You don't like my K2SO mods? It's because I have him benched you noob. You think my arena shard is less competitive than yours because I'm at rank 3? How do you even come up with that noise? Maybe if you weren't running K2SO you wouldn't drop rank instantly. For someone who has spent very little time testing characters and how they interact in different squads you sure do think you know everything.
Also, your defense mods made me chuckle....
You have k2 benched, which is exactly why you're not qualified to have been making the statements you have about him on offense, even though the whole point of this conversation is what's best for the team... Which means better on defense not offense.
Whether or not I've run chopper is irrelevant to the actual point of this discussion on top of the fact that the videos give me all the info I need on his effectiveness on offense.
This right here is your problem. You claim I am not qualified to talk about K2SO because I am not currently running him in my arena squad yet you not running Chopper... or even having him geared is irrelevant. You are so full of it.
No, I claim you are not qualified to talk about k2 under JTR because you haven't faced that OR run him and gotten feedback. Either would do, but it's obvious you haven't faced a g12 k2 under JTR or you wouldn't be saying what you are.
I'm done with you. You obviously need to feel right about something so sure, K2SO is the absolute best and we should thank you for all your thorough an completely not one-sided research. Now, move along and feel like you changed the world today.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
No, the original point was that k2 is better than chopper for the team. I was challenged on that on the basis that chopper reaches id faster.
I asserted that is not true, and pointed out all the ways that K2 protects the team better.
I mean, let's be honest here. If you have JTR and can't get to the top, chances are your problem isn't composition, so offense with both is largely irrelevant.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
But your assertion was baseless, given that you haven't tested Chopper adequately. I feel like you're just arguing to argue now, given that you conclude with the exact point I started my last post with.
You like K2-SO. Chopper users (I'm one) like chopper. Let's leave it at that.
See that's just it. MY statements weren't baseless. I've fought against RJT squads with chopper and have gotten feedback on RJT with k2.
My statements have always been coming from a defensive standpoint... Which makes whether or not I've played with him irrelevant
So you're on an old inactive shard. In what way does that make you right?
Your shard is inactive for certain because you only have 3 people in your rotation and are still in your rank 10 minutes after your payout.
To me that says your server is less competitive than mine by far. There's 6 in my payout 6 before, 3 after. People get knocked from their ranks as soon as their payout is over on my server.
I don't know why you have to turn this into a lame contest between us rather than just admit that your math was flawed and that you haven't ran k2 in arena with jtr so have literally nothing to base your opinion on.
You thought I was just some lame theorycrafter instead of an experienced player, but have to much pride to back out and see this as a battle.
You literally lost all credibility in this argument as soon as you resorted to smack talking.
Since you think you can judge me by my swgoh.gg profile, the only part you need look at is whether I've been running k2 with JTR and whether I make the top 10. How's it feel to have someone try to use your GG profile that backs up everything you've said in an attempt to discredit you?
Feels underhanded, doesn't it?
Just admit you don't know what you're talking about with k2 under Rey and move on.
Give it up man! What do you want? Do you want me to lie to you and say that K2SO is the absolute best tank in the game for all purposes at all times? Do you realize that your "math" is you just making a ton of assumptions about chopper even though you clearly have NEVER used him? Do you also realize that this thread is about a RJT squad using Imperial Probe Droid? Your "awesome" squad is just the cookie cutter RJT, R2, BB8, CLS, GK squad that every player tried when they unlocked RJT except you don't even have GK unlocked. Why don't you try other characters instead of trying to convince those of us that have experimented that you are right and I am wrong. Everything that you say is fact is actually you just talking about things you have never tried.
I used K2SO back when he was relevant. Did you use Chopper? I used him also. Oh, you watched some videos? Did you happen to watch the videos in this very thread that show chopper doing an excellent job of being a tank? You should watch them again since that's where you get all of your knowledge.
You don't like my K2SO mods? It's because I have him benched you noob. You think my arena shard is less competitive than yours because I'm at rank 3? How do you even come up with that noise? Maybe if you weren't running K2SO you wouldn't drop rank instantly. For someone who has spent very little time testing characters and how they interact in different squads you sure do think you know everything.
Also, your defense mods made me chuckle....
You have k2 benched, which is exactly why you're not qualified to have been making the statements you have about him on offense, even though the whole point of this conversation is what's best for the team... Which means better on defense not offense.
Whether or not I've run chopper is irrelevant to the actual point of this discussion on top of the fact that the videos give me all the info I need on his effectiveness on offense.
This right here is your problem. You claim I am not qualified to talk about K2SO because I am not currently running him in my arena squad yet you not running Chopper... or even having him geared is irrelevant. You are so full of it.
No, I claim you are not qualified to talk about k2 under JTR because you haven't faced that OR run him and gotten feedback. Either would do, but it's obvious you haven't faced a g12 k2 under JTR or you wouldn't be saying what you are.
I'm done with you. You obviously need to feel right about something so sure, K2SO is the absolute best and we should thank you for all your thorough an completely not one-sided research. Now, move along and feel like you changed the world today.
Again. I don't care if you agree with me or not. My problem was that your first post towards me was telling me I'm wrong based on no experience.
It's not about me being right, it's about you not knowing what you're talking about.
Until someone on the same account tries both against the same opponent, this argument is going to continue to be circular. The original point was that Chopper's kit should reduce the CD of Illuminated Destiny faster. I stand by that. The basis of your argument for K2-SO is on counter attacks, but with nearly everyone in the top 20 running R2-D2, team stealth is going to largely negate those counter-attack cooldown reductions. In your experience K2-SO may be a very worthy tank - I don't think anyone is arguing that. But given equal conditions, Chopper should allow for a quicker ID. Probably within margin of error anyway depending on RNG.
No, the original point was that k2 is better than chopper for the team. I was challenged on that on the basis that chopper reaches id faster.
I asserted that is not true, and pointed out all the ways that K2 protects the team better.
I mean, let's be honest here. If you have JTR and can't get to the top, chances are your problem isn't composition, so offense with both is largely irrelevant.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
But your assertion was baseless, given that you haven't tested Chopper adequately. I feel like you're just arguing to argue now, given that you conclude with the exact point I started my last post with.
You like K2-SO. Chopper users (I'm one) like chopper. Let's leave it at that.
See that's just it. MY statements weren't baseless. I've fought against RJT squads with chopper and have gotten feedback on RJT with k2.
My statements have always been coming from a defensive standpoint... Which makes whether or not I've played with him irrelevant
So you're on an old inactive shard. In what way does that make you right?
Your shard is inactive for certain because you only have 3 people in your rotation and are still in your rank 10 minutes after your payout.
To me that says your server is less competitive than mine by far. There's 6 in my payout 6 before, 3 after. People get knocked from their ranks as soon as their payout is over on my server.
I don't know why you have to turn this into a lame contest between us rather than just admit that your math was flawed and that you haven't ran k2 in arena with jtr so have literally nothing to base your opinion on.
You thought I was just some lame theorycrafter instead of an experienced player, but have to much pride to back out and see this as a battle.
You literally lost all credibility in this argument as soon as you resorted to smack talking.
Since you think you can judge me by my swgoh.gg profile, the only part you need look at is whether I've been running k2 with JTR and whether I make the top 10. How's it feel to have someone try to use your GG profile that backs up everything you've said in an attempt to discredit you?
Feels underhanded, doesn't it?
Just admit you don't know what you're talking about with k2 under Rey and move on.
Give it up man! What do you want? Do you want me to lie to you and say that K2SO is the absolute best tank in the game for all purposes at all times? Do you realize that your "math" is you just making a ton of assumptions about chopper even though you clearly have NEVER used him? Do you also realize that this thread is about a RJT squad using Imperial Probe Droid? Your "awesome" squad is just the cookie cutter RJT, R2, BB8, CLS, GK squad that every player tried when they unlocked RJT except you don't even have GK unlocked. Why don't you try other characters instead of trying to convince those of us that have experimented that you are right and I am wrong. Everything that you say is fact is actually you just talking about things you have never tried.
I used K2SO back when he was relevant. Did you use Chopper? I used him also. Oh, you watched some videos? Did you happen to watch the videos in this very thread that show chopper doing an excellent job of being a tank? You should watch them again since that's where you get all of your knowledge.
You don't like my K2SO mods? It's because I have him benched you noob. You think my arena shard is less competitive than yours because I'm at rank 3? How do you even come up with that noise? Maybe if you weren't running K2SO you wouldn't drop rank instantly. For someone who has spent very little time testing characters and how they interact in different squads you sure do think you know everything.
Also, your defense mods made me chuckle....
You have k2 benched, which is exactly why you're not qualified to have been making the statements you have about him on offense, even though the whole point of this conversation is what's best for the team... Which means better on defense not offense.
Whether or not I've run chopper is irrelevant to the actual point of this discussion on top of the fact that the videos give me all the info I need on his effectiveness on offense.
This right here is your problem. You claim I am not qualified to talk about K2SO because I am not currently running him in my arena squad yet you not running Chopper... or even having him geared is irrelevant. You are so full of it.
No, I claim you are not qualified to talk about k2 under JTR because you haven't faced that OR run him and gotten feedback. Either would do, but it's obvious you haven't faced a g12 k2 under JTR or you wouldn't be saying what you are.
I'm done with you. You obviously need to feel right about something so sure, K2SO is the absolute best and we should thank you for all your thorough an completely not one-sided research. Now, move along and feel like you changed the world today.
Again. I don't care if you agree with me or not. My problem was that your first post towards me was telling me I'm wrong based on no experience.
It's not about me being right, it's about you not knowing what you're talking about.
DUDE! You are NOT an expert! You are NOT a pro! You have ONE freaking squad. Your advice means nothing at all to me. Just stop with your claim of experience. Those of us who actually are experienced see right through you. Where do you get off telling me I'm not qualified? Who are you? I see everything I need to know about your so-called experience on your profile.
Here's the most relevant point in this debate in my opinion. Who would you rather have die first, K2 or R2?
If you're fine with it being R2, Chopper is fine. With a Max gear K2 in that comp, he WILL be the first to die (the majority of the time anyway), and to me that's better since the only important characters in the comp are the resistance characters.
And with that I'm done with this argument.
I'm still willing to discuss or debate cordially with anyone who isn't just looking to prove me wrong.
I just re-read the thread. Your first post claims that K2-SO is a better fit for the squad. OP says he likes Chopper better (and lists the reasons why). Your first claim was based solely on your use of K2-SO, (not, by the way, with the comp the OP suggested) and your lack of experience using (not facing) a similarly geared chopper. And then you spent the rest of the thread putting your fingers in your ears, singing "LA LA LA K2 K2 K2 is better". What you've faced on defense is 100% irrelevant. Have you faced the squad the OP is posting? How do we know the Choppers you're facing aren't modded slowly/terribly, or rounded out with other characters with terrible synergy (CLS)?
I'm sure K2 works wonderfully for you. I'm sure you like him better than a toon you haven't adequately tested yourself. All of that is irrelevant.
I just re-read the thread. Your first post claims that K2-SO is a better fit for the squad. OP says he likes Chopper better (and lists the reasons why). Your first claim was based solely on your use of K2-SO, (not, by the way, with the comp the OP suggested) and your lack of experience using (not facing) a similarly geared chopper. And then you spent the rest of the thread putting your fingers in your ears, singing "LA LA LA K2 K2 K2 is better". What you've faced on defense is 100% irrelevant. Have you faced the squad the OP is posting? How do we know the Choppers you're facing aren't modded slowly/terribly, or rounded out with other characters with terrible synergy (CLS)?
I'm sure K2 works wonderfully for you. I'm sure you like him better than a toon you haven't adequately tested yourself. All of that is irrelevant.
I came in here in a cordial tone offering up a character that many instantly discounted that happens to have amazing synergy in the proposed comp. I've been planning on putting IPD in with k2 since I unlocked JTR so I had a similar idea and perspective in mind.
I never told the op they were wrong or attempted to discredit how good chopper is. I simply pointed out the virtues of K2.
Then I had close minded people come in and tell me I'm wrong based on no experience.
I corrected their ignorance while still not discrediting chopper. Then these people decided to try and discredit me personally because they decided to take affront at my sharing of knowledge.
Overall I have yet to discredit Chopper even once in this thread. At most I compared him to k2.
Again, if you're having problems getting top ranks with jtr bb and r2, team composition is almost certainly not your problem. It's gear and mods.
This means that the only really relevant part of the other 2 characters is how they hold on defense.
This means that the only reason they are better is if they help you hold ranks better. I've played against chopper and I use K2. The chopper I played against was on a guy who has much better characters and much faster mods than I in general.
I'm not the one who came into this thread telling anyone they were wrong.
I only corrected people when they tried to tell me I was wrong based on pure conjecture.
If it seems differently to you, then I would say you have a skewed sense of perception of what I've been saying and should reread the thread again.
To put it another way: that team would be better with K2S0 than it is with Chopper.
If you think that's cordial, we have different definitions. That's you offering your opinion with a sledgehammer. There's really nothing more to say. You love K2-SO and think we all should too. We get it.
I just re-read the thread. Your first post claims that K2-SO is a better fit for the squad. OP says he likes Chopper better (and lists the reasons why). Your first claim was based solely on your use of K2-SO, (not, by the way, with the comp the OP suggested) and your lack of experience using (not facing) a similarly geared chopper. And then you spent the rest of the thread putting your fingers in your ears, singing "LA LA LA K2 K2 K2 is better". What you've faced on defense is 100% irrelevant. Have you faced the squad the OP is posting? How do we know the Choppers you're facing aren't modded slowly/terribly, or rounded out with other characters with terrible synergy (CLS)?
I'm sure K2 works wonderfully for you. I'm sure you like him better than a toon you haven't adequately tested yourself. All of that is irrelevant.
I came in here in a cordial tone offering up a character that many instantly counted that happens to have amazing synergy in the proposed comp. I've been planning on putting IPD in with k2 since I unlocked JTR so I had a similar idea and perspective in mind.
I never told the op they were wrong or attempted to discredit how good chopper is. I merely deflected ignorant attempts to discredit K2
Then I had close minded people come in and tell me I'm wrong based on no experience.
I corrected their ignorance while still not discrediting chopper. Then these people decided to try and discredit me personally because they decided to take affront at my sharing of knowledge.
If it seems differently to you, then I would say you have a skewed sense of perception.
Again with the experience claim? Saying it over and over won't make it true. Do you think you are the only person to ever use K2SO? Your only claims are K2SO is 'tougher'. The squad that this thread is about is designed to feed massive turnmeter to your guys. K2SO will not do that nearly as well as Chopper. The squad is not about hiding behind a big meat shield. You talk about closed minded people but you sir are the one who can't accept that many other people disagree with your claim. You are the one who can't accept that others have tried both characters and their views are very different than yours.
To put it another way: that team would be better with K2S0 than it is with Chopper.
If you think that's cordial, we have different definitions. That's you offering your opinion with a sledgehammer. There's really nothing more to say. You love K2-SO and think we all should too. We get it.
Aye, that be cordial. I wasn't insulting Chopper, I was promoting k2.
As I said, most people instantly discount K2 based on their first impression of him. To be honest, there's very few comps that K2 functions well in and before g12 came out his tanky stats were very poor.
However g12 gave him proper tank stats. The appearance of r2 also completely transformed his usefulness by giving him an auto cleanse that made buff immunity all but useless on him.
BB8's appearance also transformed his usefulness by giving him a constant buff so that he never fails to taunt while speeding him up on top of it.
K2 is only good with wedge, boba, Jyn, hk, and CLS leads in general. All of them make him a much better characters. But if you combine him with r2 and bb8, he becomes amazing whatever comp he is in. Not to say that those comps will all be viable, but he'll still be amazing in them.
Most people have no idea about this so without a little shock and awe, to start, people don't even consider him.
Just because my post was ostentatious doesn't make it not cordial.
To put it another way: that team would be better with K2S0 than it is with Chopper.
If you think that's cordial, we have different definitions. That's you offering your opinion with a sledgehammer. There's really nothing more to say. You love K2-SO and think we all should too. We get it.
Aye, that be cordial. I wasn't insulting Chopper, I was promoting k2.
As I said, most people instantly discount K2 based on their first impression of him. To be honest, there's very few comps that K2 functions well in and before g12 came out his tanky stats were very poor.
However g12 gave him proper tank stats. The appearance of r2 also completely transformed his usefulness by giving him an auto cleanse that made buff immunity all but useless on him.
BB8's appearance also transformed his usefulness by giving him a constant buff so that he never fails to taunt while speeding him up on top of it.
K2 is only good with wedge, boba, Jyn, hk, and CLS leads in general. All of them make him a much better characters. But if you combine him with r2 and bb8, he becomes amazing whatever comp he is in. Not to say that those comps will all be viable, but he'll still be amazing in them.
Most people have no idea about this so without a little shock and awe, to start, people don't even consider him.
Just because my post was ostentatious doesn't make it not cordial.
Can't you just start a K2SO thread for anyone who wants to talk about K2SO? This thread has nothing to do with K2SO.
I'm actually really interested in the original squad this thread is about and you just want to debate how awesome K2SO is.
Replies
At what gear levels?
Did you try them both at the same time? (K2 doesn't work that well with another taunter in the group)
Trollsbane has a k2 that is modded very poorly, and g11 K2 compared to g12 K2 may as well not be called a tank. I know because I was running him as a tank at g11, but he wasn't really that tanky.
Look at this K2: https://swgoh.gg/u/woodroward/collection/218/k-2so/
The guy is a beast. He's an awesome tank. He's always first to die, but not until the opponents have several dead... The other JTR's Kenobi and Rey usually both die before he does. He's usually the only one that dies (if any).
People don't seem to get how crucial that Smoke Screen on K2 is. You don't want it on R2 or JTR. On defense it will always go to one of those two. A fractured JTR or R2 and your team is not holding on defense... That is never a concern with K2 in the group. He fixes their defense. No other droid can.
Lack of details more or less makes your opinion seem not important.
As I have stated numerous times in this thread. I haven't tried chopper, but I've played against him, and he's junk on defense.
I can say that beating JTR teams isn't all that challenging provided you have a clear path to fracture her. Anything that gets in the way of that clear path and starts the little ball bobbling with his repetitive pointless buff (other than to get to his mega-buff special) makes these teams more challenging. We mostly see Kenobi as a tank with either Han, Old Ben, Chopper or Thrawn as the fifth. The Old Ben and Chopper teams are pretty similar in nature - in either case there's usually a pretty clear path to Rey through a variety of dispels (I still run Baze exactly for this reason) - K2 would definitely change that as the fifth in that comp, since he would require CLS' buff immunity and now we're getting RNG-ish on whether or not Rey has lost stealth while GK's taunt is down so Thrawn has a path to fracture her. Chopper comps are pretty easy, you just need to wait the extra turn for Chopper's taunt to clear and because he's so fast and getting TM, you don't have to wait long. Pretty much the same with OB, but he can be sped up by Thrawn. K2's ability to regain that taunt on counter, requiring that buff immunity instead of being more selective about it's use depending on how the match unfolds....could be cause for trouble.
Either way, theory crafting is nice, and watching that theory crafting devolve the way this thread did is a little sad given the contributors' obvious passion for the game, it sounds like an apples to apples comparison (gear and mods) of the two comps would be the only answer.
Not theorycrafting for me. I actually run K2 with my JTR in my arena squad. Buff immunity doesn't actually stop K2 either because R2's auto cleanse when he crits. K2 gets buff immunity, counters, crits, loses buff immunity and gains taunt. You have to daze him... and even then, you're still stuck attacking him usually because everyone else is stealthed.
This is where you say - "fair point" and retain credibility :-)
Eh, I've been mainly talking about how they hold on defense. I've fought plenty. Having my chopper geared wouldn't help that. I have gotten lots of feedback from my many shardmates on how my K2 holds on D though.
Like I say, it's not theorycrafting.
Conversation started by me pointing out his virtues for defense. Someone said ID procs way faster with Chopper. I disagreed. I've seen a plethora of videos, and my ID procs as fast and as many times. I don't have to have even tried Chopper for the things I have been saying to be more than theory.
No, the original point was that k2 is better than chopper for the team. I was challenged on that on the basis that chopper reaches id faster.
I asserted that is not true, and pointed out all the ways that K2 protects the team better.
I mean, let's be honest here. If you have JTR and can't get to the top, chances are your problem isn't composition, so offense with both is largely irrelevant.
To truly resolve the argument, someone would have to play against someone who took turns having g12 versions of both up.
But your assertion was baseless, given that you haven't tested Chopper adequately. I feel like you're just arguing to argue now, given that you conclude with the exact point I started my last post with.
You like K2-SO. Chopper users (I'm one) like chopper. Let's leave it at that.
Give it up man! What do you want? Do you want me to lie to you and say that K2SO is the absolute best tank in the game for all purposes at all times? Do you realize that your "math" is you just making a ton of assumptions about chopper even though you clearly have NEVER used him? Do you also realize that this thread is about a RJT squad using Imperial Probe Droid? Your "awesome" squad is just the cookie cutter RJT, R2, BB8, CLS, GK squad that every player tried when they unlocked RJT except you don't even have GK unlocked. Why don't you try other characters instead of trying to convince those of us that have experimented that you are right and I am wrong. Everything that you say is fact is actually you just talking about things you have never tried.
I used K2SO back when he was relevant. Did you use Chopper? I used him also. Oh, you watched some videos? Did you happen to watch the videos in this very thread that show chopper doing an excellent job of being a tank? You should watch them again since that's where you get all of your knowledge.
You don't like my K2SO mods? It's because I have him benched you noob. You think my arena shard is less competitive than yours because I'm at rank 3? How do you even come up with that noise? Maybe if you weren't running K2SO you wouldn't drop rank instantly. For someone who has spent very little time testing characters and how they interact in different squads you sure do think you know everything.
Also, your defense mods made me chuckle....
Sounds like a challenge! Oh wait... turns out I already have K2SO gear 11 and I'm not scared to actually try both tanks. Can you say the same? Are you going to step up and prove all of your assumptions by gearing and testing Chopper? Or are you going to just pretend that you know what's up when you're really just guessing based on some anonymous mystery video that only you saw? You say over and over that you are a experienced player... it's time to step up and show us.
See that's just it. MY statements weren't baseless. I've fought against RJT squads with chopper and have gotten feedback on RJT with k2.
My statements have always been coming from a defensive standpoint... Which makes whether or not I've played with him irrelevant
I watched many videos and saw chopper squads proccing id no faster than I did (I counted turns)
I never said my squad was awesome. I said k2 was awesome with JTR. With ipd's aoe buff wipe, he'd be even better.
You have k2 benched, which is exactly why you're not qualified to have been making the statements you have about him on offense, even though the whole point of this conversation is what's best for the team... Which means better on defense not offense.
Whether or not I've run chopper is irrelevant to the actual point of this discussion on top of the fact that the videos give me all the info I need on his effectiveness on offense.
If you actually read my post you would see that my comments about your rank weren't serious and only intended to show you how pointless your comments about mine were.
I don't want you to acknowledge k2 as anything other than outside your realm of experience when it comes to JTR.
Chuckle at my defense mods all you want, repeated testing with all sorts of different setups has shown them to make him extremely effective. If you'd done the same, you might not have ended up benching him
Now please quit arguing about something you know nothing about and admit your ignorance.
Didn't you read? G12... Not g11.
And it's about defense. If you're up for it, gear him to 12 and let others try your squad then get feedback Then you'll actually have experience to back up your statements and I'll be satisfied with that regardless of the result.
My insistence on g12 isn't just to make it hard on you. Without doing so r2 will not smoke screen K2, which is a huge part of why he is better on d and hence better for the team.
As for me gearing up chopper, this is still irrelevant, I've fought against chopper under jtr plenty of times, so I already have the experience necessary to know what I'm talking about.
I think the overall point is that both chopper and k2 will work. Can yall leave it at that? cause with this back n forth slight derailment this thread is most likely heading for the dumpster.
This right here is your problem. You claim I am not qualified to talk about K2SO because I am not currently running him in my arena squad yet you not running Chopper... or even having him geared is irrelevant. You are so full of it.
No, I claim you are not qualified to talk about k2 under JTR because you haven't faced that OR run him and gotten feedback. Either would do, but it's obvious you haven't faced a g12 k2 under JTR or you wouldn't be saying what you are.
Don't you see? Woodroward wants to make this thread about K2SO. I'm simply trying to support the thread by showing the original squad that was discussed is in fact very well put together and Chopper looks amazing in it.
Whatever man. You came into this thread to talk smack about k2 with no experience in either facing or running him under JTR. That's the problem.
You may not like that my experience is only in facing chopper, but that's the only relevant part as far as I'm concerned, defense. Regardless, I still have SOME experience with both characters in question here and you don't.
If you had ANY experience with k2 under JTR, this conversation wouldn't have gone the way it has.
I will never submit to someone whose points are coming from a position of complete ignorance. Mine are not.
I'm done with you. You obviously need to feel right about something so sure, K2SO is the absolute best and we should thank you for all your thorough an completely not one-sided research. Now, move along and feel like you changed the world today.
Again. I don't care if you agree with me or not. My problem was that your first post towards me was telling me I'm wrong based on no experience.
It's not about me being right, it's about you not knowing what you're talking about.
DUDE! You are NOT an expert! You are NOT a pro! You have ONE freaking squad. Your advice means nothing at all to me. Just stop with your claim of experience. Those of us who actually are experienced see right through you. Where do you get off telling me I'm not qualified? Who are you? I see everything I need to know about your so-called experience on your profile.
If you're fine with it being R2, Chopper is fine. With a Max gear K2 in that comp, he WILL be the first to die (the majority of the time anyway), and to me that's better since the only important characters in the comp are the resistance characters.
And with that I'm done with this argument.
I'm still willing to discuss or debate cordially with anyone who isn't just looking to prove me wrong.
I'm sure K2 works wonderfully for you. I'm sure you like him better than a toon you haven't adequately tested yourself. All of that is irrelevant.
This is all you have done. Every single post. Trying to prove people wrong. Pot... meet Kettle!
I came in here in a cordial tone offering up a character that many instantly discounted that happens to have amazing synergy in the proposed comp. I've been planning on putting IPD in with k2 since I unlocked JTR so I had a similar idea and perspective in mind.
I never told the op they were wrong or attempted to discredit how good chopper is. I simply pointed out the virtues of K2.
Then I had close minded people come in and tell me I'm wrong based on no experience.
I corrected their ignorance while still not discrediting chopper. Then these people decided to try and discredit me personally because they decided to take affront at my sharing of knowledge.
Overall I have yet to discredit Chopper even once in this thread. At most I compared him to k2.
Again, if you're having problems getting top ranks with jtr bb and r2, team composition is almost certainly not your problem. It's gear and mods.
This means that the only really relevant part of the other 2 characters is how they hold on defense.
This means that the only reason they are better is if they help you hold ranks better. I've played against chopper and I use K2. The chopper I played against was on a guy who has much better characters and much faster mods than I in general.
I'm not the one who came into this thread telling anyone they were wrong.
I only corrected people when they tried to tell me I was wrong based on pure conjecture.
If it seems differently to you, then I would say you have a skewed sense of perception of what I've been saying and should reread the thread again.
Again with the experience claim? Saying it over and over won't make it true. Do you think you are the only person to ever use K2SO? Your only claims are K2SO is 'tougher'. The squad that this thread is about is designed to feed massive turnmeter to your guys. K2SO will not do that nearly as well as Chopper. The squad is not about hiding behind a big meat shield. You talk about closed minded people but you sir are the one who can't accept that many other people disagree with your claim. You are the one who can't accept that others have tried both characters and their views are very different than yours.
Aye, that be cordial. I wasn't insulting Chopper, I was promoting k2.
As I said, most people instantly discount K2 based on their first impression of him. To be honest, there's very few comps that K2 functions well in and before g12 came out his tanky stats were very poor.
However g12 gave him proper tank stats. The appearance of r2 also completely transformed his usefulness by giving him an auto cleanse that made buff immunity all but useless on him.
BB8's appearance also transformed his usefulness by giving him a constant buff so that he never fails to taunt while speeding him up on top of it.
K2 is only good with wedge, boba, Jyn, hk, and CLS leads in general. All of them make him a much better characters. But if you combine him with r2 and bb8, he becomes amazing whatever comp he is in. Not to say that those comps will all be viable, but he'll still be amazing in them.
Most people have no idea about this so without a little shock and awe, to start, people don't even consider him.
Just because my post was ostentatious doesn't make it not cordial.
Can't you just start a K2SO thread for anyone who wants to talk about K2SO? This thread has nothing to do with K2SO.
I'm actually really interested in the original squad this thread is about and you just want to debate how awesome K2SO is.