Again I must reiterate: the IMMENSE discrepancy that has been created after TB and the introduction of Gear 12 between mid-tier and top-tier guilds is to blame for the balancing of this raid.
This raid could address this problem by making lower tiers hand out some G11-12 gear so that lower level guilds (read: guilds with less whales) can catch up a bit and be ready for Heroic in a bit, but instead, it hands out G12 gear like candy to players already loaded with it, and deprives lower tier guilds of anything they can use.
T4 and 5 are still ridiculous hitpoint bags and give you little to nothing, despite taking ages as a 30-60 M GP guild. T6 is a huge chore and the rewards are still minimal for the effort put in.
The problem once again is lack of catch-up mechanics in the game. It should have been addressed when TB launched, but it was ignored entirely, just like my post will be ignored again now.
Visually I think the raid is great, I really want to enjoy it, but the implementation seems to have fallen short. It's like they had an idea, polished it up so it looks good, but didn't actually try it before rolling it out.
The investment vs reward is seriously lacking as well. It is nice seeing 7 different items in the inbox, but the quantities are so low it will take at least 10 raids to craft a single item.
We're running tier 6 and clearing it every 4 days, before the nerf to expose and sthan.
I get that it's meant to be difficult, but I can't understand how the intention would be to have 50 players use 5 teams a day, all G11/12, for days, repeatedly for over a month before they can equip their first piece of gear. And that's not even heroic level.
I'm obviously not very creative either, but I don't understand how they expect the community to find inventive ways to beat this raid when any ability or mechanic that isn't unavoidable is blocked.
The rewards were bad enough before. Unless that has also changed significantly, I’ll do a few autos but this is one feature of the game that does NOT have me interested. Sad, too, because it had so much potential.
Meh. Was cool the first go around to see all the new shiny bits.
After that initial grind and getting challenge gear (T5) with limited other pieces it just isn't worth the effort.
80m GP guild and we just rotate T4 for quickies to burn tickets then T5 to get nominally better rewards.
I see potential, but as many others have stated, the time required to get the shield to apply to the correct toon, or to try and guess when DN will use annihilate when its been available for 2 turns so you can never truly strategize just sucks the life outta the raid. Turns into a time sink, and with TB/TW and 2 other raids going with better and easier rewards, this gets placed on auto.
Phase 1 and 2 are growing on me. There are some cool strategies to employ. Although I don't understand why the minions in all phases are resistant to......everything.
Rancor and the tank raid were also not fun until I did my research and built teams capable of putting up some damage. So yes the sith raid isn't currently fun since my teams arent ready, but I'll keep gearing them up til they do work!
I can't speak to the Rancor of AAT when they released, as I wasn't playing then. But I can say that after putting in three months now, that this Sith raid is somewhat disappointing.
As I mentioned, I am a newer player in a newer guild, so we are just doing T2 to allow everyone in the guild to be able to participate. That tier is recommended for 2* L50 G6. I am running 5-7* L60-65 G7-8 toons, and I can't do anything. That's the issue that I feel a lot of players have with this raid. I'm reasonably above the recommended specs, yet it is still extremely hard for me to get any real damage done, and that just isn't any fun.
Rewards don't justify the required efforts for guilds unable to do the heroic tier, heroic get shards which is the only reason I'd give that a pass.
Contrary to the stated philosophy of getting everyone together to coordinate attacks, I think this one has turned people without the initially identified key teams off of attacking it altogether.
It certainly doesn't feel like it's encouraging new and creative strategies in my guild, more that those with JTR, etc. are doing the bulk of the work.
While I enjoy theory crafting teams to counter the mechanics, the real un-fun part begins when you can't do heroic and realize you spend 6 days for the most awful rewards from tier 6.
My thoughts (such as they are) is that the raid is not fun for the following reasons.
1: The stacking tenacity and speed, plus immunity to tenacity down, means that any team built around synergy with debuffs (most teams) FEEL ineffective
2. Rewards don't feel appropriate for the time involved.
3. Raid HP is far too high for most phases.
Fixes?
1. This problem I expect will be negated over time, but in order for new toons to be strong enough to overcome this, it will vastly increase the power creep.
2. Increase guild tokens by 30-75% for every tier.
3. Adjust overall raid HP to make things understandable. Currently the HP scales up massively and then down to heroic. If this is the case, what is the point of the tiers? Ideally, as each tier increases in difficulty, once your guild can clear one tier within a day (or roster refresh) it should take 2 days to clear the next tier.
It takes far to long for the lower tiers, therefore the invested time needed isn’t worthy of the rewards.
I know there’s a 5% health reduction coming but I think it should be even higher for lower tiers.
I agree. The balance is also way out of whack with lower tiers. My guild can clear regular aat in 12 hours (we're just a little shy of doing heroic) yet tier 4 which is theoretically balanced for toons below the regular aat takes us 72 hours to grind through. That's largely a combo of the absurd health pools even at that level and boss mechanics that hard counter most mechanics and synergies regardless of whether the toons far surpass that tiers minimum requirements. You can't do much except bash away for raw damage.
Granted we probably aren't using optimal teams yet but accounting for that it shouldn't take us more than 24 hours to clear a tier that is theoretically less difficult than regular aat. I just don't see how guilds that just meet the minimum requirements could do it in less than 2 weeks. More to the point new mods, gear levels, or level cap increases won't make the lower tiers easier for those guilds.
With rancor and aat less than optimal teams could still do decent if they were geared/modded well. I feel like the sith raid is the opposite where it's designed only for very specific teams and all others, no matter how meta they are, are as effective as a g12, 7*, level 85 CUP because of all the boss mechanics that hard counter everything else.
This raid is a joke and my guild gets maybe 60% participation on it. We have 20 people with JTR that just carry the rest of the guild. I just send in NS and troopers, hit auto and live with whatever damage they produce. I can’t wait til the devs see how badly they failed and do right by us on this raid.
Whats worse is that the final phase is annoying as all...
But Nahilus is so broken in the rade. I carefully tried to watch for his annihilate...he swung a basic attack...then drained my team..which allowed his annihilate to be ready. Thought i was good since he attacked twiced...then he suddenly got to attack again....its ridiculous...he got to attack and use both abilities in 1 turn.
This raid is not fun...just a grind fest for mediorcre reqards. They should of waited another month to work out the bugs and kinks.
This raid gave me the last push to quit the game, deinstalled it today.
I still remember the time beating the heroic rancor with teebo and friends, playing for almost an hour trying to solo it.
The haat was hard as well in the beginning, but not so frustrating like this raid.
It is just to much for me, 2 payouts, 3 raids, tb and tw and everything around you have to do.
This raid is such a chore...
So Mods, give me jailbars or ban me, I couldn't care less.
I think heroic is fun. I would probably think t6 and below are pretty unfun if we were stuck grinding on those tiers just because the immense hp pools in t6 and below turns the raid into a grind. Once you get to heroic though you get a couple, three days break in between each raid, so that helps it feel much less grindy.
I am an officer in a 63M GP guild. We attempted a T6 raid when the raid was launched and quickly discovered there was no way we stood a chance beating it in the month of March with only two members having JTR.
We scaled back to T3 to see what that was like. Beat the raid in about 2 days. The rewards were absolute junk.
We launched a T5 last Monday (seven days ago) and we just hit P3 last night...
I do not mind a challenge. I remember when our guild was not ready for Heroic Pit and we prepared for it. I remember when our guild was not HAAT ready. We spent months preparing for it. It is still too early for me to say it is a lost cause on this raid because minus JTR, no one has figured it out. I get the design concept. If one member can do 2 percent damage then multiply by 50 and voila phase done. But after two weeks of trying different things no one, minus JTR teams, seems to be able to pull off a fraction of that 2 percent because of the insane mechanics of the raid.
Stacking tenacity, insane health pool, basic attacks that punish you after several uses, unable to apply debuffs, unable to apply TM reduction, and the list just goes on and on. Who was this raid designed for? For a competitive F2P guild the answer, in my opinion, is it was not.
Simply put, in its current form, it is a chore. A time grind. And it lacks any satisfaction because the reward payout is CHALLENGE gear. For a raid of this magnitude how in the world can you think challenge gear is a viable payout. I just do not understand the vision for this raid.
We will be dropping back to a T3 or T4 raid whenever we finish our current week long T5 raid. No one in my guild is having fun in this one. And that is a problem...
If You play t5 so there is simple team that can do more than 1 mil dmg in phase 1. Jyn lead, Lumi, JE, Cassian, Hera. Easy way to do enough dmg to make 50% of phase1.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I don’t got time to play for 20 minutes figuring out which button to hit next and if I mess up I get wiped. Such a bore.
This is spot on how I feel. I don’t want to spend more time on something that is not enjoyable. Have only auto’d it since my first few attempts. The only things I really look forward to are arena and territory wars.
Replies
This raid could address this problem by making lower tiers hand out some G11-12 gear so that lower level guilds (read: guilds with less whales) can catch up a bit and be ready for Heroic in a bit, but instead, it hands out G12 gear like candy to players already loaded with it, and deprives lower tier guilds of anything they can use.
T4 and 5 are still ridiculous hitpoint bags and give you little to nothing, despite taking ages as a 30-60 M GP guild. T6 is a huge chore and the rewards are still minimal for the effort put in.
The problem once again is lack of catch-up mechanics in the game. It should have been addressed when TB launched, but it was ignored entirely, just like my post will be ignored again now.
I know there’s a 5% health reduction coming but I think it should be even higher for lower tiers.
The investment vs reward is seriously lacking as well. It is nice seeing 7 different items in the inbox, but the quantities are so low it will take at least 10 raids to craft a single item.
We're running tier 6 and clearing it every 4 days, before the nerf to expose and sthan.
I get that it's meant to be difficult, but I can't understand how the intention would be to have 50 players use 5 teams a day, all G11/12, for days, repeatedly for over a month before they can equip their first piece of gear. And that's not even heroic level.
I'm obviously not very creative either, but I don't understand how they expect the community to find inventive ways to beat this raid when any ability or mechanic that isn't unavoidable is blocked.
After that initial grind and getting challenge gear (T5) with limited other pieces it just isn't worth the effort.
80m GP guild and we just rotate T4 for quickies to burn tickets then T5 to get nominally better rewards.
I see potential, but as many others have stated, the time required to get the shield to apply to the correct toon, or to try and guess when DN will use annihilate when its been available for 2 turns so you can never truly strategize just sucks the life outta the raid. Turns into a time sink, and with TB/TW and 2 other raids going with better and easier rewards, this gets placed on auto.
Phase 3 and 4 just plain suck
As I mentioned, I am a newer player in a newer guild, so we are just doing T2 to allow everyone in the guild to be able to participate. That tier is recommended for 2* L50 G6. I am running 5-7* L60-65 G7-8 toons, and I can't do anything. That's the issue that I feel a lot of players have with this raid. I'm reasonably above the recommended specs, yet it is still extremely hard for me to get any real damage done, and that just isn't any fun.
Contrary to the stated philosophy of getting everyone together to coordinate attacks, I think this one has turned people without the initially identified key teams off of attacking it altogether.
It certainly doesn't feel like it's encouraging new and creative strategies in my guild, more that those with JTR, etc. are doing the bulk of the work.
1: The stacking tenacity and speed, plus immunity to tenacity down, means that any team built around synergy with debuffs (most teams) FEEL ineffective
2. Rewards don't feel appropriate for the time involved.
3. Raid HP is far too high for most phases.
Fixes?
1. This problem I expect will be negated over time, but in order for new toons to be strong enough to overcome this, it will vastly increase the power creep.
2. Increase guild tokens by 30-75% for every tier.
3. Adjust overall raid HP to make things understandable. Currently the HP scales up massively and then down to heroic. If this is the case, what is the point of the tiers? Ideally, as each tier increases in difficulty, once your guild can clear one tier within a day (or roster refresh) it should take 2 days to clear the next tier.
I agree. The balance is also way out of whack with lower tiers. My guild can clear regular aat in 12 hours (we're just a little shy of doing heroic) yet tier 4 which is theoretically balanced for toons below the regular aat takes us 72 hours to grind through. That's largely a combo of the absurd health pools even at that level and boss mechanics that hard counter most mechanics and synergies regardless of whether the toons far surpass that tiers minimum requirements. You can't do much except bash away for raw damage.
Granted we probably aren't using optimal teams yet but accounting for that it shouldn't take us more than 24 hours to clear a tier that is theoretically less difficult than regular aat. I just don't see how guilds that just meet the minimum requirements could do it in less than 2 weeks. More to the point new mods, gear levels, or level cap increases won't make the lower tiers easier for those guilds.
With rancor and aat less than optimal teams could still do decent if they were geared/modded well. I feel like the sith raid is the opposite where it's designed only for very specific teams and all others, no matter how meta they are, are as effective as a g12, 7*, level 85 CUP because of all the boss mechanics that hard counter everything else.
But Nahilus is so broken in the rade. I carefully tried to watch for his annihilate...he swung a basic attack...then drained my team..which allowed his annihilate to be ready. Thought i was good since he attacked twiced...then he suddenly got to attack again....its ridiculous...he got to attack and use both abilities in 1 turn.
This raid is not fun...just a grind fest for mediorcre reqards. They should of waited another month to work out the bugs and kinks.
I still remember the time beating the heroic rancor with teebo and friends, playing for almost an hour trying to solo it.
The haat was hard as well in the beginning, but not so frustrating like this raid.
It is just to much for me, 2 payouts, 3 raids, tb and tw and everything around you have to do.
This raid is such a chore...
So Mods, give me jailbars or ban me, I couldn't care less.
If You play t5 so there is simple team that can do more than 1 mil dmg in phase 1. Jyn lead, Lumi, JE, Cassian, Hera. Easy way to do enough dmg to make 50% of phase1.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
This is spot on how I feel. I don’t want to spend more time on something that is not enjoyable. Have only auto’d it since my first few attempts. The only things I really look forward to are arena and territory wars.