Would be nice if the @CG folks would realize the Internet works on weekends as well as workdays...
In my experience, I've seen that their internet works just fine on weekends in which the community finds a way to solo a Heroic tier of a raid while using an undergeared Nute Gunray... But when it's to address OUR concerns, we're "lucky" if they achieve this in 1 week instead of 2 weeks and we should be thankful. Even though they could "roll back" in less than a day...
You guys do heroic and get Traya shards..... that should be the reward for doing heroic. If you don't like the amount of efforts required then do non heroic raids.
While I disagree with that, don't forget that they will soon also be getting exclusive G12 pieces.
The more I read these comments, and the more I reflect on my own experience, the more I wonder if "health of the game" isn't code for "we need to make long-time players slow down or quit and let newer players grow." Here's the thing: every time a new Star Wars movie gets released, Star Wars fans find this game. There's at least another year of brand new players coming in waves. Content that Day 1 players have been slowly accessing over the life of the game - first master Hancor, then AAT gets released, first get Palpatine, then CLS gets released - is available for new players all at once. Because of this, CG must perform a balancing act:
-Needing to put out new, challenging content to keep long-time players engaged while not making new players feel like the mountain of Stuff To Do is impossible to climb
-Needing to keep old content useful since it's Step 1 for new players and can't be end-of-lifed
-Needing to optimize cash inflow vs. dev effort, because this is a business after all
I would theorize that some new players feel more pressure to spend to keep up, and perhaps CG is seeing that the bulk of their cash influx is from junior whales who are trying to quickly get up to speed on Legendary toons AND on Heroic raid teams AND on TBs. If senior whales are only dropping $300 every time a new marquee toon is released, but junior whales are spending thousands trying to be ready for RJT and CLS simultaneously, guess who CG is going to cater to more?
The Sith raid made all these balance problems worse. It needs to be end-game and really shouldn't be beatable without a very highly developed roster, but it still needed lower tiers to draw newer players in. How do you make the low tiers easy enough for baby guilds but also keep long-time players from going "I'm bored, what's next?" and demanding new content? CG needed to milk about 2 more months of Heroic being unbeatable, but that didn't happen, and the players are outpacing the game again. The only way to make this raid truly unbeatable would be to put such high health on the bosses that more power creep happens, or to make a specific, unreleased toon required to beat it - not good options. So now the only way CG can figure out to slow the game down is to nerf raid rewards. It's not pretty. Long-time players are quitting. But from the devs' perspective, that might actually be the best thing for the game overall.
FYI, I'm a player who started in Dec 2017 and am running T2-T3 in the Sith raid. I haven't felt the impacts of the nerf at all; in fact, getting GE credits in T3 has been a boost, and reward flattening will help our weakest players a lot. I think we're going to "catch up" on the game faster now. Maybe that's the point.
@CG_Carrie as an English player and apparently we are the guardians of Politically Correctness, I feel i should advise you of this..... instead of....After yesterday’s follow up post, intended to be clearer and more succinct (also based on feedback from foreign language users to be more direct), my intention was to show side by side comparisons of the Raid Rewards before/after in a post today.
you should have said....After yesterday’s follow up post, intended to be clearer and more succinct (also based on feedback from Non English speaking users to be more direct), my intention was to show side by side comparisons of the Raid Rewards before/after in a post today.
so...Ive FTFY, not trying to be arsey here but what you said doesn't sound good
Ha ha ha!! This post cannot be genuine, surely?
Are you honestly complaining about the use of the term "foreign language"??
You are aware that this is not, in any way, an incorrect term for the scenario it relates to?
"Foreign" simply means a country or language other than one's own native country or language.
Nothing politically incorrect to see here & no need for snow, either.
i am being serious and succinct, foreign can be deemed racist and not politically correct, therefore thats why i advised the change, if you have problem with that...i suggest you have a good look into your terminology, we are all brothers/sisters and that dividing line between both here,
and why should we be labelled into the foreign category? Non English speaking is the best terminology, deal with it! we are not all Trump.
I'm sure you can find a politics forum somewhere to flake it up...
This thread is for making STR great again... actually it was never great so we are just trying to make it bearable
The more I read these comments, and the more I reflect on my own experience, the more I wonder if "health of the game" isn't code for "we need to make long-time players slow down or quit and let newer players grow." [...]
FYI, I'm a player who started in Dec 2017 and am running T2-T3 in the Sith raid. I haven't felt the impacts of the nerf at all; in fact, getting GE credits in T3 has been a boost, and reward flattening will help our weakest players a lot. I think we're going to "catch up" on the game faster now. Maybe that's the point.
Many long-running games have faced the same issue, and the solution is pretty much always the same - you don't slow down the veterans, you speed up the new players.
The more I read these comments, and the more I reflect on my own experience, the more I wonder if "health of the game" isn't code for "we need to make long-time players slow down or quit and let newer players grow." [...]
FYI, I'm a player who started in Dec 2017 and am running T2-T3 in the Sith raid. I haven't felt the impacts of the nerf at all; in fact, getting GE credits in T3 has been a boost, and reward flattening will help our weakest players a lot. I think we're going to "catch up" on the game faster now. Maybe that's the point.
Many long-running games have faced the same issue, and the solution is pretty much always the same - you don't slow down the veterans, you speed up the new players.
This. There is no reason to intentionally "slow down" the long time players, as they don't compete against the new players anyway - not in arena, TW, raids, etc. Nowhere.
The only reason I can see for trying to "slow done" veteran progression is that your development team can't release content fast enough to keep them interested. But having them be a little bored for short periods seems a better alternative than alienating them and having them quit and posting negative reviews in the Playstore. But what do I know?
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I understand your reasoning behind normalizing rewards but I would like to propose a different approach.
I could be wrong but my understanding on the goal of the raid is to:
A) Have full guild participation People to be rewarded for their efforts
Normalizing 1-50 rewards fails both of these since someone posting a 0 post will get the same gear rewards as someone with 12M score. The currency difference does not solve this. Normalizing 4-50 and giving higher rewards for top 3 also doesn't solve this. Some guilds have the same people hitting top 3 all the time and may get significantly higher rewards than the others.
Saying all this, instead of basing rewards on position, why not base it on damage done with an upper limit?
e.g. Have an upper limit of 8M damage for the sith raid. If you score 8M+ damage, you get the max rewards scaling down to 0 damage.
This solves (A) and (B) - people will want to participate as their rewards will be based on their participation in the raid and how much damage they did.
This also doesn't limit decent rewards to the top 3 spots. Anyone that can work their way up to achieving the 8M will be able to get decent rewards.
Since the raid has a set health value, this should not be breaking the game as the rewards handed out per guild should be the same per raid.
This system might not work for Pit/HAAT since you can solo the entire raid but I believe it could be a good system for the Sith Raid.
I understand your reasoning behind normalizing rewards but I would like to propose a different approach.
I could be wrong but my understanding on the goal of the raid is to:
A) Have full guild participation People to be rewarded for their efforts
Normalizing 1-50 rewards fails both of these since someone posting a 0 post will get the same gear rewards as someone with 12M score. The currency difference does not solve this. Normalizing 4-50 and giving higher rewards for top 3 also doesn't solve this. Some guilds have the same people hitting top 3 all the time and may get significantly higher rewards than the others.
Saying all this, instead of basing rewards on position, why not base it on damage done with an upper limit?
e.g. Have an upper limit of 8M damage for the sith raid. If you score 8M+ damage, you get the max rewards scaling down to 0 damage.
This solves (A) and (B) - people will want to participate as their rewards will be based on their participation in the raid and how much damage they did.
This also doesn't limit decent rewards to the top 3 spots. Anyone that can work their way up to achieving the 8M will be able to get decent rewards.
Since the raid has a set health value, this should not be breaking the game as the rewards handed out per guild should be the same per raid.
This system might not work for Pit/HAAT since you can solo the entire raid but I believe it could be a good system for the Sith Raid.
I understand your reasoning behind normalizing rewards but I would like to propose a different approach.
I could be wrong but my understanding on the goal of the raid is to:
A) Have full guild participation People to be rewarded for their efforts
Normalizing 1-50 rewards fails both of these since someone posting a 0 post will get the same gear rewards as someone with 12M score. The currency difference does not solve this. Normalizing 4-50 and giving higher rewards for top 3 also doesn't solve this. Some guilds have the same people hitting top 3 all the time and may get significantly higher rewards than the others.
Saying all this, instead of basing rewards on position, why not base it on damage done with an upper limit?
e.g. Have an upper limit of 8M damage for the sith raid. If you score 8M+ damage, you get the max rewards scaling down to 0 damage.
This solves (A) and (B) - people will want to participate as their rewards will be based on their participation in the raid and how much damage they did.
This also doesn't limit decent rewards to the top 3 spots. Anyone that can work their way up to achieving the 8M will be able to get decent rewards.
Since the raid has a set health value, this should not be breaking the game as the rewards handed out per guild should be the same per raid.
This system might not work for Pit/HAAT since you can solo the entire raid but I believe it could be a good system for the Sith Raid.
I hope you give it some thought.
If your guild feels to share rewards, well, you just have to limit the damage among yourselves. You don't need CG to do that for you. That's fixed with 2 lines in Discord.
This is one thing MSF is doing well for sure. It has a milestone system, which could be integrated quite nicely here. Instead of distributing rewards based only on the leaderboard position, distribute rewards for micro-achievements during the raid. This let's you craft a higher fidelity of rewards distribution that can be more fair for all - so for example:
1) Leaderboard based rewards distribution at the end (top damage dealers get gear kickbacks and extra shards)
2) Participation reward (dealt any damage during the raid, including zero)
3) Phase one damage (1% or more during phase, or a set damage number)
4) Phase two damage (1% or more during phase, or a set damage number)
5) Phase three damage (1% or more during phase, or a set damage number)
6) Phase four damage (1% or more during phase, or a set damage number)
How does making the rewards worse for lower tiers help anyone? The gear was ok enough that players were getting stronger. Moving up to heroic is going to be a lot more difficult now that the gear is nerfed. My guild has nearly 100 million GP but not even close to heroic since they nerfed JTR and tuned the raid to prevent any other team from working well. The high tenacity, stacking speed, and poor rewards make the raid a chore with little benefit.
I just realized CG dont want STR to be a gear farm place.
Then the question is:
Why on Earth have they released the raid BEFORE the unique rewards it was/is going to have??
7 people from my guild left after the last nerfs. 3 of them were whales with almost 3mln GP. You guys even have the guts of saying that this changes are made for the health of the game.
You guys do heroic and get Traya shards..... that should be the reward for doing heroic. If you don't like the amount of efforts required then do non heroic raids. They are trying to fix it. Seriously guys, the amount of crying in here is ridiculous. You all spent money in here willingly. Nobody twisted your arms and forced you to do it. Me me me me me me me me ad nauseam will only do so much before it becomes background noise.
I argue that less mega whales in the game will be better overall for the community because you bridge the power gap, and people who do spent 10 or 20 here and there will actually see a difference. But CG bred the whales, and it's now it has to somehow feed their egos, too.
Why do you assume that those who are playing heroic are all mega whales? I have spent $22 on this game. I am pretty sure that does not make me a whale. Regardless, this raid takes a lot of time across all tiers and people should be rewarded for their time and it should be based on their ranking or a tiered ranking. Don't hate the players, hate the decision makers.
For the record I don’t want any tier drops to be nerfed. Not discounting some of the none heroic rewards look worse then they used to but heroic seems to have taken the biggest hit (from personal experience) and heroic is also the highest tier of players. I’m all for speeding up the new player progression. I’m not for slowing down progression of higher tier players... 3m gp should mean something.
I hate these new timesinks called Tb/tw. Annoying features.
I just realized CG dont want STR to be a gear farm place.
Then the question is:
Why on Earth have they released the raid BEFORE the unique rewards it was/is going to have??
This. Usually content drops are well tested, balanced, bug free, well integrated and well thought out...OUCH! Man, my tongue sure hurts after doing that to my cheek.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
You guys do heroic and get Traya shards..... that should be the reward for doing heroic. If you don't like the amount of efforts required then do non heroic raids. They are trying to fix it. Seriously guys, the amount of crying in here is ridiculous. You all spent money in here willingly. Nobody twisted your arms and forced you to do it. Me me me me me me me me ad nauseam will only do so much before it becomes background noise.
I argue that less mega whales in the game will be better overall for the community because you bridge the power gap, and people who do spent 10 or 20 here and there will actually see a difference. But CG bred the whales, and it's now it has to somehow feed their egos, too.
Why do you assume that those who are playing heroic are all mega whales? I have spent $22 on this game. I am pretty sure that does not make me a whale. Regardless, this raid takes a lot of time across all tiers and people should be rewarded for their time and it should be based on their ranking or a tiered ranking. Don't hate the players, hate the decision makers.
Very true. Skill and time have a big impact.
They need to buff the rewards for all tiers though. People doing tier 6 and below are gonna fall behind because the gear drops do not let them improve their roster. And given that they keep on changing the rules on what is intended behavior in the raid, we do not know what to build. People spend a lot of time on this raid and the rewards went from fine to a joke.
I barely wanted to play this raid before. The promise of improved rewards got me excited for a moment. The failure to deliver on that promise and to spend a week back talking over "what you meant to say" makes me not want to play at all.
Replies
What can I say? I'm broke (admit it, you like the shade of purple I used).
TVFroll strikes again!
Glad it makes you feel better as a person to call me a troll though.
And with that I'm done posting about this and you.
While I disagree with that, don't forget that they will soon also be getting exclusive G12 pieces.
-Needing to put out new, challenging content to keep long-time players engaged while not making new players feel like the mountain of Stuff To Do is impossible to climb
-Needing to keep old content useful since it's Step 1 for new players and can't be end-of-lifed
-Needing to optimize cash inflow vs. dev effort, because this is a business after all
I would theorize that some new players feel more pressure to spend to keep up, and perhaps CG is seeing that the bulk of their cash influx is from junior whales who are trying to quickly get up to speed on Legendary toons AND on Heroic raid teams AND on TBs. If senior whales are only dropping $300 every time a new marquee toon is released, but junior whales are spending thousands trying to be ready for RJT and CLS simultaneously, guess who CG is going to cater to more?
The Sith raid made all these balance problems worse. It needs to be end-game and really shouldn't be beatable without a very highly developed roster, but it still needed lower tiers to draw newer players in. How do you make the low tiers easy enough for baby guilds but also keep long-time players from going "I'm bored, what's next?" and demanding new content? CG needed to milk about 2 more months of Heroic being unbeatable, but that didn't happen, and the players are outpacing the game again. The only way to make this raid truly unbeatable would be to put such high health on the bosses that more power creep happens, or to make a specific, unreleased toon required to beat it - not good options. So now the only way CG can figure out to slow the game down is to nerf raid rewards. It's not pretty. Long-time players are quitting. But from the devs' perspective, that might actually be the best thing for the game overall.
FYI, I'm a player who started in Dec 2017 and am running T2-T3 in the Sith raid. I haven't felt the impacts of the nerf at all; in fact, getting GE credits in T3 has been a boost, and reward flattening will help our weakest players a lot. I think we're going to "catch up" on the game faster now. Maybe that's the point.
I'm sure you can find a politics forum somewhere to flake it up...
This thread is for making STR great again... actually it was never great so we are just trying to make it bearable
This. There is no reason to intentionally "slow down" the long time players, as they don't compete against the new players anyway - not in arena, TW, raids, etc. Nowhere.
The only reason I can see for trying to "slow done" veteran progression is that your development team can't release content fast enough to keep them interested. But having them be a little bored for short periods seems a better alternative than alienating them and having them quit and posting negative reviews in the Playstore. But what do I know?
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I understand your reasoning behind normalizing rewards but I would like to propose a different approach.
I could be wrong but my understanding on the goal of the raid is to:
A) Have full guild participation
Normalizing 1-50 rewards fails both of these since someone posting a 0 post will get the same gear rewards as someone with 12M score. The currency difference does not solve this. Normalizing 4-50 and giving higher rewards for top 3 also doesn't solve this. Some guilds have the same people hitting top 3 all the time and may get significantly higher rewards than the others.
Saying all this, instead of basing rewards on position, why not base it on damage done with an upper limit?
e.g. Have an upper limit of 8M damage for the sith raid. If you score 8M+ damage, you get the max rewards scaling down to 0 damage.
This solves (A) and (B) - people will want to participate as their rewards will be based on their participation in the raid and how much damage they did.
This also doesn't limit decent rewards to the top 3 spots. Anyone that can work their way up to achieving the 8M will be able to get decent rewards.
Since the raid has a set health value, this should not be breaking the game as the rewards handed out per guild should be the same per raid.
This system might not work for Pit/HAAT since you can solo the entire raid but I believe it could be a good system for the Sith Raid.
I hope you give it some thought.
I understand your reasoning behind normalizing rewards but I would like to propose a different approach.
I could be wrong but my understanding on the goal of the raid is to:
A) Have full guild participation
Normalizing 1-50 rewards fails both of these since someone posting a 0 post will get the same gear rewards as someone with 12M score. The currency difference does not solve this. Normalizing 4-50 and giving higher rewards for top 3 also doesn't solve this. Some guilds have the same people hitting top 3 all the time and may get significantly higher rewards than the others.
Saying all this, instead of basing rewards on position, why not base it on damage done with an upper limit?
e.g. Have an upper limit of 8M damage for the sith raid. If you score 8M+ damage, you get the max rewards scaling down to 0 damage.
This solves (A) and (B) - people will want to participate as their rewards will be based on their participation in the raid and how much damage they did.
This also doesn't limit decent rewards to the top 3 spots. Anyone that can work their way up to achieving the 8M will be able to get decent rewards.
Since the raid has a set health value, this should not be breaking the game as the rewards handed out per guild should be the same per raid.
This system might not work for Pit/HAAT since you can solo the entire raid but I believe it could be a good system for the Sith Raid.
I hope you give it some thought.
If your guild feels to share rewards, well, you just have to limit the damage among yourselves. You don't need CG to do that for you. That's fixed with 2 lines in Discord.
This is one thing MSF is doing well for sure. It has a milestone system, which could be integrated quite nicely here. Instead of distributing rewards based only on the leaderboard position, distribute rewards for micro-achievements during the raid. This let's you craft a higher fidelity of rewards distribution that can be more fair for all - so for example:
1) Leaderboard based rewards distribution at the end (top damage dealers get gear kickbacks and extra shards)
2) Participation reward (dealt any damage during the raid, including zero)
3) Phase one damage (1% or more during phase, or a set damage number)
4) Phase two damage (1% or more during phase, or a set damage number)
5) Phase three damage (1% or more during phase, or a set damage number)
6) Phase four damage (1% or more during phase, or a set damage number)
Just food for thought.
Then the question is:
Why on Earth have they released the raid BEFORE the unique rewards it was/is going to have??
@CG_Carrie
Why do you assume that those who are playing heroic are all mega whales? I have spent $22 on this game. I am pretty sure that does not make me a whale. Regardless, this raid takes a lot of time across all tiers and people should be rewarded for their time and it should be based on their ranking or a tiered ranking. Don't hate the players, hate the decision makers.
This. Usually content drops are well tested, balanced, bug free, well integrated and well thought out...OUCH! Man, my tongue sure hurts after doing that to my cheek.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Very true. Skill and time have a big impact.
They need to buff the rewards for all tiers though. People doing tier 6 and below are gonna fall behind because the gear drops do not let them improve their roster. And given that they keep on changing the rules on what is intended behavior in the raid, we do not know what to build. People spend a lot of time on this raid and the rewards went from fine to a joke.