They asked for us to provide this information on May 14th.
Tomorrow will be the 11th day that this thread has been running & it has gathered 16 pages of responses.
The sheer amount of displeasure voiced here makes it perfectly clear that there are very few people who find any form of enjoyment in this content.
It actually makes me wonder what would happen if everyone simply stopped launching the Raid anymore? Sure, they would have most of the Heroic guilds still participating, but no-one else.
Would this prompt them to actually do something, rather than just starting the thread equivalent of a straw man to capture information already found endlessly provided throughout this forum & reddit?
@cg Why was the devs post about no changes to rewards not made an announcement thread? That's an all time first, and it sucks.
Er because changes can't and won't happen overnight?
I'm sure you've noticed that there's just been a massive update. That I'm sure has taken months of work.
I'm pretty sure they're not starting the next planned update. Which will take months of work.
Then...maybe it will be time for Sith update.
It's like turning a ship.
Just my opinion. May be completely wrong. Never been involved in the gaming industry but have a long history of project management.
Why can’t they just tell us that then instead of “we’ll say something soon-ish” and leave it twisting in the wind? This thread wasn’t started by us, don’t forget that. Give us a rough roadmap or something
@cg Why was the devs post about no changes to rewards not made an announcement thread? That's an all time first, and it sucks.
Er because changes can't and won't happen overnight?
I'm sure you've noticed that there's just been a massive update. That I'm sure has taken months of work.
I'm pretty sure they're not starting the next planned update. Which will take months of work.
Then...maybe it will be time for Sith update.
It's like turning a ship.
Just my opinion. May be completely wrong. Never been involved in the gaming industry but have a long history of project management.
I'm not asking why they didn't update the Sith raid, but why they didn't make the announcement replyable in general forums like they have for ALL other posts. Feels like the are trying to sweep it under the rug in hopes that people will just stop talking about the lousy reward system
I think a possible misconception here is that the CM spends his/her day focused on the forums. CM's profile reveals Developer title. Now this could simply be semantics, but it could imply he/she has duties other than the forums and must divide the time spent here. Coupled with any comments no doubt must be approved. We helped cause the disconnect, now we have to deal with it.
What tier or tiers did you play?
My guild is currently getting Tier 5 most efficiently
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
119M+
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
Typical JTR team, CLS meta, Imp Trooper, and a couple Sithy teams
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
It's such a drag, the grind is so tedious. Really the only phases that are any fun are 2&3, but the guild blows through those so fast I rarely get to participate in them. Really, Nihilus just sucks whatever fun there is to be had out of this.
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
It's neat to see these Sith Lords from KOTOR.. Generally I don't like raids to begin with. They just show what expendable chumps your characters are, even though in lore they're the great heroes and villains. This aspect of the game really isn't for me... it's even worse than PvP, at least I can get that over with quickly. I do the content to help the guild and get the loot, but it's really just an unpleasant chore.
Something I've noticed doing tier 3 is that DN seems way overtuned relative to Sion and even Traya. Even without his OHK ability he has a very good chance of wiping out g11/g12 toons if you make a mistake. Contrast this with Sion in p2 where he basically won't put a dent in a g8, 7* level 85+ toon until enrage if you have a healer and/or heal mechanic. G11+ toons are fully immortal barring serious player error so you can safely put it on auto knowing they will all make it to enrage.
In part I think this is due to everything DN is immune to neuters most meta toon mechanics. It also seems like his damage output isn't scaled at lower tiers given his regular attacks are as much a threat to a g11 toon as his OHK. Which would be fine for tier 5+ but is quite absurd at tier 4 or lower. Like if it is balanced for 3* <g8 toons why is it that g11 toons still need to worry about his non-OHK attack? Shouldn't his OHK be the only thing a g11 toon needs to worry about in that case?
I also think the protection is a stupid mechanic given how much health bosses have. I think at the end of the day all that does is agrivate players by artificially prolonging the phase rather than add any interesting strategy.
That's an interesting point... released Sith Raid to a community that's hated and very clearly stated which parts they hated and why...
Yet instead of addressing or fixing those shortcomings that turn this raid into a chore instead of a fun, gaming activity, they ignored to actively destroy fleet battles?
They need playtesters that can tell them the truth instead of "yes men" who will tell them what they want to hear for continued access, because it's been a comedy errors and missteps this entire year for CG.
That's an interesting point... released Sith Raid to a community that's hated and very clearly stated which parts they hated and why...
Yet instead of addressing or fixing those shortcomings that turn this raid into a chore instead of a fun, gaming activity, they ignored to actively destroy fleet battles?
They need playtesters that can tell them the truth instead of "yes men" who will tell them what they want to hear for continued access, because it's been a comedy errors and missteps this entire year for CG.
That would be a good start. The devs playing the game and understanding it would be a good thing to add.
Oh well, let's add listening to their customers as well & round out the fundamental requirements which have been missing from this game for such a long time.
Nice of them to respond to this horrible issue in the thread that they started in the first place
That notification about rewards *isn't* about this thread. Its about the TU12 changes where they were going to add two more G12 gear slots with gear that was only available in the Heroic STR. That thread is *good* news.
We had changed the droprate from a tiered percentage chance to a flat 40% to accommodate an additional two slots of Gear XII coming in May exclusively to the Heroic Tier.
That's all we need is for heroics to get exclusive gear on top of Traya shards...
Well - the way I see it, the CM introduced himself and gave some background, hopefully getting some humanization before he wades into this muddy, bloody, warzone called the STR... and I DON'T mean from the in-game battles.
That's an interesting point... released Sith Raid to a community that's hated and very clearly stated which parts they hated and why...
Yet instead of addressing or fixing those shortcomings that turn this raid into a chore instead of a fun, gaming activity, they ignored to actively destroy fleet battles?
They need playtesters that can tell them the truth instead of "yes men" who will tell them what they want to hear for continued access, because it's been a comedy errors and missteps this entire year for CG.
Or they need to listen to the testers and not just use them as load testers. It could have gone either way.
With the Sith raid and ships 2.0, it feels more and more like the only testing they are doing with updates is putting it into the hands of fully zeta'ed test account players. For lower/mid level players the game is getting less fun. Making something more complicated isn't the same as making it better
Nice of them to respond to this horrible issue in the thread that they started in the first place
That notification about rewards *isn't* about this thread. Its about the TU12 changes where they were going to add two more G12 gear slots with gear that was only available in the Heroic STR. That thread is *good* news.
We had changed the droprate from a tiered percentage chance to a flat 40% to accommodate an additional two slots of Gear XII coming in May exclusively to the Heroic Tier.
That's all we need is for heroics to get exclusive gear on top of Traya shards...
Not everyone is running heroic and the rewards from tiers 1-6 are pathetic piles of garbage which don’t make the raids even worth doing
What tier or tiers did you play? mostly t6, we have attempted 3 heroics unsuccessfully
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid? 131M
What teams you did you attempt the raid with? JTR, MGLeia, Chex Mix, Nightsisters
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying? everything about the raid is demotivating, there is not one redeeming quality to it. our entire guild hates it
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid? I dont enjoy anything about it, the game mechanics are terrible, such high tenacity on the bosses that it is nearly impossible to land debuffs is really bad game mechanics and design. the fact that skill has no factor in success in the raid and it is almost entirely dependent on RNG is terrible terrible game design. there is no incentive to improve skillwise at the game. the only way to beat the raid is with attempt after attempt to get better RNG. AWFUL
Let's keep this thread relevant and not let it fall off to all the new threads discussing the new shiny baubles. This is /still/ a serious issue to the mass majority of players.
Let's keep this thread relevant and not let it fall off to all the new threads discussing the new shiny baubles. This is /still/ a serious issue to the mass majority of players.
Amen! Gotta keep this thread, once again a thread that THEY started, up there so it doesn’t get swept under the rug
Are we going to hear back from you on this anytime soon? @CG_SBCrumb
Yep, today is a bit busy with releases and tracking down Territory Battle Compensation info. Meeting in the next few days to review further. Expect an update here before EOW
09:09 in Sacramento, so 8hrs until End of (working) Week & the update we were told to expect before this time?
Hope this correspondence is still on schedule.
Nice of them to respond to this horrible issue in the thread that they started in the first place
That notification about rewards *isn't* about this thread. Its about the TU12 changes where they were going to add two more G12 gear slots with gear that was only available in the Heroic STR. That thread is *good* news.
We had changed the droprate from a tiered percentage chance to a flat 40% to accommodate an additional two slots of Gear XII coming in May exclusively to the Heroic Tier.
That's all we need is for heroics to get exclusive gear on top of Traya shards...
Not everyone is running heroic and the rewards from tiers 1-6 are pathetic piles of garbage which don’t make the raids even worth doing
I recall them saying that they intended this raid to be done 1-2 a week. If that's the case I think they need to use TB as a reference. They also need to use the heroic tier as a reference.
If lower tiers got us complete raid gear & other high demand pieces I think people would be much happier. Also buff the guild tokens to be much higher in tier 1-6 (perhaps even slightly higher than heroic to account for the lack of Traya shard motivation).
They should also unnerf jtr as I think the community has pretty clearly demonstrated that she wasn't over performing but rather raid mechanics by design made all other toons underperform. If by design every toon except jtr has their kit hard countered and rendered as useful as CUP of course she will appear to be over performing by comparison.
I recall them saying that they intended this raid to be done 1-2 a week. If that's the case I think they need to use TB as a reference. They also need to use the heroic tier as a reference.
If lower tiers got us complete raid gear & other high demand pieces I think people would be much happier. Also buff the guild tokens to be much higher in tier 1-6 (perhaps even slightly higher than heroic to account for the lack of Traya shard motivation).
They should also unnerf jtr as I think the community has pretty clearly demonstrated that she wasn't over performing but rather raid mechanics by design made all other toons underperform. If by design every toon except jtr has their kit hard countered and rendered as useful as CUP of course she will appear to be over performing by comparison.
Of all the faults with this Raid & the overall experience, the rewards are the most simple thing to resolve.
Each Tier's rewards should contain pieces for the next Tier's requirements, so that the rewards for your current Tier enable you to reach the next.
It's as simple as that.
They need to make those requirements accurate first, as the currently shown requirements for T5 and down are hugely below what is actually viable &, therefore, required.
Heroic rewards full G12 & Traya shards.
T6 rewards Gear required for Heroic.
T5 rewards Gear required for T6.
etc...
What tier or tiers did you play?
Tier 5 mostly before our guild split apart
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
It was right around 110m GP
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
We had different mixes of teams from the ones needed to piecing together alternatives since you made entire phases dependent on only a very select amount of teams that actually work.
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Nothing motivated me other than helping my guild mates that in the end destroyed our guild.
What demotivated me?
1. Mechanics - You literally made every double tap or counter attack character completely useless to use in P1 due to the mechanic of a debuff toon giving him prot back as just one example.
2. RNG of the raid... I have literally scene same team same mods do 2x or .5x of a prior run same phase. I shouldn't have to sit in a raid for 45 minutes with 1 team to get optimal RNG that is the absolute worst and laziest development I have ever seen in any game I have ever played. I get the challenge and you don't want people clearing entire phases with a single team that makes the raid less fun but to require forced retreats and playing in airplane mode so I can hit my needed % to post a good score is absolutely infuriating to the point I was almost ready to delete the app.
3. Making it so dependent on single teams to do any kind of damage or literally posting .5% damage if your lucky.
4. The amount of health and time it takes to clear on non heroic to the rewards you get.
5. The fact you destroyed so many guilds that were just out of reach of clearing heroic due to lack of teams from half the guild.
What about the raid did you enjoy?
Absolutely nothing honestly. I hate that you made it so mechanics of characters like zader are totally useless with stacking tenacity to the point you start them off with such high tenacity that even toons with 100% potency barely land a single debuff on the boss's first time being hit. The mechanics are trash, the RNG is super trash and the rewards are a total joke for the amount of time needed to complete it. Also your raid destroyed countless guilds and broke up good communities of players who have been playing together for a long time.
What did you dislike about the raid?
Everything literally everything. If there was an option to go back to a specific server where this update didnt exist and I didnt have to worry about playing vs Traya in arena I would 100% go back to a version of this game from January of 2018.
Of all the faults with this Raid & the overall experience, the rewards are the most simple thing to resolve.
Each Tier's rewards should contain pieces for the next Tier's requirements, so that the rewards for your current Tier enable you to reach & compete in the next.
It's as simple as that.
They need to make those requirements accurate first, as the currently shown requirements for T5 and down are hugely below what is actually viable &, therefore, required.
Heroic rewards full G12 & Traya shards.
T6 rewards Gear required for Heroic, with minimum being Gear for T6.
T5 rewards Gear required for T6, with minimum being Gear for T5.
etc...
Bad
Phase one is a joke, time it takes to get through is a joke. Rewards for time spent is not good.
Have tried so many multiple teams with not much good results. Don't get me wrong a challenge is fine. But when it sucks the life and the fun out of a game something is clearly wrong.
Replies
Tomorrow will be the 11th day that this thread has been running & it has gathered 16 pages of responses.
The sheer amount of displeasure voiced here makes it perfectly clear that there are very few people who find any form of enjoyment in this content.
It actually makes me wonder what would happen if everyone simply stopped launching the Raid anymore? Sure, they would have most of the Heroic guilds still participating, but no-one else.
Would this prompt them to actually do something, rather than just starting the thread equivalent of a straw man to capture information already found endlessly provided throughout this forum & reddit?
Er because changes can't and won't happen overnight?
I'm sure you've noticed that there's just been a massive update. That I'm sure has taken months of work.
I'm pretty sure they're not starting the next planned update. Which will take months of work.
Then...maybe it will be time for Sith update.
It's like turning a ship.
Just my opinion. May be completely wrong. Never been involved in the gaming industry but have a long history of project management.
I'm not asking why they didn't update the Sith raid, but why they didn't make the announcement replyable in general forums like they have for ALL other posts. Feels like the are trying to sweep it under the rug in hopes that people will just stop talking about the lousy reward system
It was: https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/170331/update-on-sith-raid-rewards-and-balance#latest
What am I missing?
My two cents..
What tier or tiers did you play?
My guild is currently getting Tier 5 most efficiently
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
119M+
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
Typical JTR team, CLS meta, Imp Trooper, and a couple Sithy teams
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
It's such a drag, the grind is so tedious. Really the only phases that are any fun are 2&3, but the guild blows through those so fast I rarely get to participate in them. Really, Nihilus just sucks whatever fun there is to be had out of this.
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid?
It's neat to see these Sith Lords from KOTOR.. Generally I don't like raids to begin with. They just show what expendable chumps your characters are, even though in lore they're the great heroes and villains. This aspect of the game really isn't for me... it's even worse than PvP, at least I can get that over with quickly. I do the content to help the guild and get the loot, but it's really just an unpleasant chore.
In part I think this is due to everything DN is immune to neuters most meta toon mechanics. It also seems like his damage output isn't scaled at lower tiers given his regular attacks are as much a threat to a g11 toon as his OHK. Which would be fine for tier 5+ but is quite absurd at tier 4 or lower. Like if it is balanced for 3* <g8 toons why is it that g11 toons still need to worry about his non-OHK attack? Shouldn't his OHK be the only thing a g11 toon needs to worry about in that case?
I also think the protection is a stupid mechanic given how much health bosses have. I think at the end of the day all that does is agrivate players by artificially prolonging the phase rather than add any interesting strategy.
Still sucks!
You all know why. You've heard it explained to you here a million times. Still haven't done anything.
Still sucks.
Like the Titanic...
That's an interesting point... released Sith Raid to a community that's hated and very clearly stated which parts they hated and why...
Yet instead of addressing or fixing those shortcomings that turn this raid into a chore instead of a fun, gaming activity, they ignored to actively destroy fleet battles?
They need playtesters that can tell them the truth instead of "yes men" who will tell them what they want to hear for continued access, because it's been a comedy errors and missteps this entire year for CG.
That would be a good start. The devs playing the game and understanding it would be a good thing to add.
Oh well, let's add listening to their customers as well & round out the fundamental requirements which have been missing from this game for such a long time.
That notification about rewards *isn't* about this thread. Its about the TU12 changes where they were going to add two more G12 gear slots with gear that was only available in the Heroic STR. That thread is *good* news.
This is the thread that notification is about:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/166122/update-to-raid-reward-changes-4-11-18
That's all we need is for heroics to get exclusive gear on top of Traya shards...
Or they need to listen to the testers and not just use them as load testers. It could have gone either way.
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid? 131M
What teams you did you attempt the raid with? JTR, MGLeia, Chex Mix, Nightsisters
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying? everything about the raid is demotivating, there is not one redeeming quality to it. our entire guild hates it
What about the raid did you enjoy? What did you dislike about the raid? I dont enjoy anything about it, the game mechanics are terrible, such high tenacity on the bosses that it is nearly impossible to land debuffs is really bad game mechanics and design. the fact that skill has no factor in success in the raid and it is almost entirely dependent on RNG is terrible terrible game design. there is no incentive to improve skillwise at the game. the only way to beat the raid is with attempt after attempt to get better RNG. AWFUL
Hope this correspondence is still on schedule.
I recall them saying that they intended this raid to be done 1-2 a week. If that's the case I think they need to use TB as a reference. They also need to use the heroic tier as a reference.
If lower tiers got us complete raid gear & other high demand pieces I think people would be much happier. Also buff the guild tokens to be much higher in tier 1-6 (perhaps even slightly higher than heroic to account for the lack of Traya shard motivation).
They should also unnerf jtr as I think the community has pretty clearly demonstrated that she wasn't over performing but rather raid mechanics by design made all other toons underperform. If by design every toon except jtr has their kit hard countered and rendered as useful as CUP of course she will appear to be over performing by comparison.
Each Tier's rewards should contain pieces for the next Tier's requirements, so that the rewards for your current Tier enable you to reach the next.
It's as simple as that.
They need to make those requirements accurate first, as the currently shown requirements for T5 and down are hugely below what is actually viable &, therefore, required.
Heroic rewards full G12 & Traya shards.
T6 rewards Gear required for Heroic.
T5 rewards Gear required for T6.
etc...
Tier 5 mostly before our guild split apart
What GP is your Guild that is attempting the raid?
It was right around 110m GP
What teams you did you attempt the raid with?
We had different mixes of teams from the ones needed to piecing together alternatives since you made entire phases dependent on only a very select amount of teams that actually work.
What part of the raid motivated or demotivated you to continue trying?
Nothing motivated me other than helping my guild mates that in the end destroyed our guild.
What demotivated me?
1. Mechanics - You literally made every double tap or counter attack character completely useless to use in P1 due to the mechanic of a debuff toon giving him prot back as just one example.
2. RNG of the raid... I have literally scene same team same mods do 2x or .5x of a prior run same phase. I shouldn't have to sit in a raid for 45 minutes with 1 team to get optimal RNG that is the absolute worst and laziest development I have ever seen in any game I have ever played. I get the challenge and you don't want people clearing entire phases with a single team that makes the raid less fun but to require forced retreats and playing in airplane mode so I can hit my needed % to post a good score is absolutely infuriating to the point I was almost ready to delete the app.
3. Making it so dependent on single teams to do any kind of damage or literally posting .5% damage if your lucky.
4. The amount of health and time it takes to clear on non heroic to the rewards you get.
5. The fact you destroyed so many guilds that were just out of reach of clearing heroic due to lack of teams from half the guild.
What about the raid did you enjoy?
Absolutely nothing honestly. I hate that you made it so mechanics of characters like zader are totally useless with stacking tenacity to the point you start them off with such high tenacity that even toons with 100% potency barely land a single debuff on the boss's first time being hit. The mechanics are trash, the RNG is super trash and the rewards are a total joke for the amount of time needed to complete it. Also your raid destroyed countless guilds and broke up good communities of players who have been playing together for a long time.
What did you dislike about the raid?
Everything literally everything. If there was an option to go back to a specific server where this update didnt exist and I didnt have to worry about playing vs Traya in arena I would 100% go back to a version of this game from January of 2018.
Each Tier's rewards should contain pieces for the next Tier's requirements, so that the rewards for your current Tier enable you to reach & compete in the next.
It's as simple as that.
They need to make those requirements accurate first, as the currently shown requirements for T5 and down are hugely below what is actually viable &, therefore, required.
Heroic rewards full G12 & Traya shards.
T6 rewards Gear required for Heroic, with minimum being Gear for T6.
T5 rewards Gear required for T6, with minimum being Gear for T5.
etc...
Simples
Been doing tier 4 but are trying tier 5
Good
Really like phase 2 and 3
Bad
Phase one is a joke, time it takes to get through is a joke. Rewards for time spent is not good.
Have tried so many multiple teams with not much good results. Don't get me wrong a challenge is fine. But when it sucks the life and the fun out of a game something is clearly wrong.