Your choice of starting lineup is more important now. Your choice to reinforce is more important now. Before it was the exact same battle every single time, with the only differentiation being how many target locks you land, which is completely out of your control. So you have more control now than before. But ok.
guess whose tie pilot evades 5 times in a row (try to calculate chance persentage for that now? (it's 0.0001 by the way) this is just one example of unfair snowballing mode from AI.
No it's just one example of small sample size and confirmation bias.
As an aside - the "small sample size" issue is the rng problem in a fleet battle with fewer starting ships. If one person's FOTP double taps and others doesn't, or one gets a target lock and the others doesn't or one crits andthe other's doesn't or someone dodges - its a bigger deal, because there are only 3 ships out.
One of the issues with ships 2.0 is that they reduced "sample size" - thereby reducing the player's ability to mitigate poor rng, thereby increasing the overall effect of rng on the final outcome.
But yeah, ships 2.0 makes me grouchy.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Well said, thanks for the perfect explanation of situation.
Also, somehow I find AI to be extremely lucky in this gamble, like its dice has 6 dots on sides with 1 and 2 dots. Hope its just my temporarily misfortune
The new system sucks. Much more RNG now. It isn't really funny to play.
Just sayin'
Everyone is saying "Much more RNG now" but not actually explaining what that means or giving any examples. It's at risk of becoming a meaningless excuse.
The folks who HAVE given examples cite TFP, which actually had its dodge reduced, which makes it LESS random compared to ships 1.0.
Everyone is saying "Much more RNG now" but not actually explaining what that means or giving any examples. It's at risk of becoming a meaningless excuse.
The folks who HAVE given examples cite TFP, which actually had its dodge reduced, which makes it LESS random compared to ships 1.0.
Obvious counter to that is Falcon, which has had its dodge chance increased.
Ships are awful now. Always 1 step forward and 2 steps back with you guys. It would be so nice if you actually listened to your community instead of ignoring and doing the opposite.
Ships are awful now. Always 1 step forward and 2 steps back with you guys. It would be so nice if you actually listened to your community instead of ignoring and doing the opposite.
They hear what we want, then tell us what we need.
We argue that we don't, they give it to us anyway while ignoring what we do want &/or need & nerfing/breaking things that were fine.
The new system sucks. Much more RNG now. It isn't really funny to play.
Just sayin'
Everyone is saying "Much more RNG now" but not actually explaining what that means or giving any examples. It's at risk of becoming a meaningless excuse.
The folks who HAVE given examples cite TFP, which actually had its dodge reduced, which makes it LESS random compared to ships 1.0.
Wrong, you have that exactly backwards.
The lower the odds of an positive event occurring the *more* dependent winning becomes on RNG . If in an equal match, and 1 ITF dodges and the other doesn't that's a permanent 25% TM gain (when maxed) advantage that owners capital ship has for the entire match - and that's game probably deciding.
The same holds true for target locks, critical hits, etc. The more of the positive effects you gain over your opponent, the more likely you are to win - and the lower the odds of those positive things occurring the more likely they are to be game deciding for the person who gets the most.
And having less ships further compounds the problem because now you have less chances to create those positive effects, making the effects that much more game changing.
Hence this new mode is even more dependent on RNG than before.
the RNG complaints seem to be from relying on landing target lock first or TFP dodging, things of that nature. well the chances of those are far from 100%, so of course they're RNG dependent. having fewer starting ships can make things go south more quickly if the dice rolls aren't going your way, and i certainly get that. however is there no alternative strategy for such cases? e.g. "if target lock doesn't land what can i do then?" and strategize accordingly.
after a couple days i guess i'm getting the hang of it now, though i despise how suddenly they thrust all this on us, giving no opportunity to learn the ropes and devise such alternate strategies before our arena payouts depended on our knowledge of the new system.
The new system sucks. Much more RNG now. It isn't really funny to play.
Just sayin'
Everyone is saying "Much more RNG now" but not actually explaining what that means or giving any examples. It's at risk of becoming a meaningless excuse.
The folks who HAVE given examples cite TFP, which actually had its dodge reduced, which makes it LESS random compared to ships 1.0.
FOTP double tap, dodges, target lock (by FOTP or TFP), crits, etc.
And with fewer ships and thus fewer opportunities for players to mitigate bad RNG means that RNG has more of an effect on the outcome, not less. Your math is backwards.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
the RNG complaints seem to be from relying on landing target lock first or TFP dodging, things of that nature. well the chances of those are far from 100%, so of course they're RNG dependent. having fewer starting ships can make things go south more quickly if the dice rolls aren't going your way, and i certainly get that. however is there no alternative strategy for such cases? e.g. "if target lock doesn't land what can i do then?" and strategize accordingly.
after a couple days i guess i'm getting the hang of it now, though i despise how suddenly they thrust all this on us, giving no opportunity to learn the ropes and devise such alternate strategies before our arena payouts depended on our knowledge of the new system.
Unfortunately, in the past the meta lineup left u with 4 TL options and possibly a 5th. You had a choice to roll the rng dice and try going for opponent reaper first or killing biggs. Now, everything revolves around TL and biggs, where everything hitting biggs is nothing other than a wet noodle so u HAVE to TL and taunt biggs.
Between chimaeras, whoever is faster wins. Otherwise, assuming none of ur tfps dodge, it becomes a 50/50 tossup on who gets ultimate first then the other loses.
Ships 2.0 has on the whole been very disappointing, unexciting and time consuming. Game changers say it takes a shorter time - i wholly disagree. It used to take 1-1.5min, now it takes 3-4min on average with almost ALL reinforcements coming out. With bad rng and 0 TLs, it's a definite lose when opponent biggs keeps healing and reinforcing while u start with 3, get chipped to 2 then 1 and dead.
My suggestion is to remove the nerfs on the existing ships. It's already a huge slap for endgame players who invested heavily in their main fleet, and an even bigger slap to new players who had to make a choice based on existing options before ships 2.0.
Or even better, get rid of this stupid update altogether.
the RNG complaints seem to be from relying on landing target lock first or TFP dodging, things of that nature. well the chances of those are far from 100%, so of course they're RNG dependent. having fewer starting ships can make things go south more quickly if the dice rolls aren't going your way, and i certainly get that. however is there no alternative strategy for such cases? e.g. "if target lock doesn't land what can i do then?" and strategize accordingly.
after a couple days i guess i'm getting the hang of it now, though i despise how suddenly they thrust all this on us, giving no opportunity to learn the ropes and devise such alternate strategies before our arena payouts depended on our knowledge of the new system.
Unfortunately, in the past the meta lineup left u with 4 TL options and possibly a 5th. You had a choice to roll the rng dice and try going for opponent reaper first or killing biggs. Now, everything revolves around TL and biggs, where everything hitting biggs is nothing other than a wet noodle so u HAVE to TL and taunt biggs.
Between chimaeras, whoever is faster wins. Otherwise, assuming none of ur tfps dodge, it becomes a 50/50 tossup on who gets ultimate first then the other loses.
Ships 2.0 has on the whole been very disappointing, unexciting and time consuming. Game changers say it takes a shorter time - i wholly disagree. It used to take 1-1.5min, now it takes 3-4min on average with almost ALL reinforcements coming out. With bad rng and 0 TLs, it's a definite lose when opponent biggs keeps healing and reinforcing while u start with 3, get chipped to 2 then 1 and dead.
My suggestion is to remove the nerfs on the existing ships. It's already a huge slap for endgame players who invested heavily in their main fleet, and an even bigger slap to new players who had to make a choice based on existing options before ships 2.0.
Or even better, get rid of this **** update altogether.
Some game changers are saying it takes longer. Even having to switch to auto because they are out of time. They took RNG and multiplied it by 10, reduced the ships making Biggs even more important. Stupid kitten update. They really should try playing their own game.
I have a great idea...have the game changers make videos from their personal accounts when most don't pay for stuff because they have the dev accounts. Then let's see the game play and their thoughts. Show me a cubs fan han arena climb or an ahnald arena climb. Live stream that.
Well said, thanks for the perfect explanation of situation.
Also, somehow I find AI to be extremely lucky in this gamble, like its dice has 6 dots on sides with 1 and 2 dots. Hope its just my temporarily misfortune
It's not the AI being extremely lucky it's just the fact that with 3 ships, the effect of rng is amplified. And the bigger issue is that practically everyone STILL uses biggs - there isnt any change to starting lineup if biggs is always still there is it? The fact that he's still there and practically all attackers have a nerf to damage makes it near impossible to take down biggs once opponent lands a TL, and then TLs again after u wetnoodled ****'s shields.
Now that we've seen the new ships, I think many new and old players are frustrated about the following things:
1. Time and duration - before the update, battles were really much quicker (end game players tend to win in 1-2min). Now you're burning through almost all reinforcements. Myself I take 3-4min on average.
2. RNG - the effects of RNG are worse than ever. Back when it was 5v5, there was enough opportunity to catchup back from bad rng rolls. We had options. Lost a ship right at the start? You can reinforce, or you could use Chimaera's heal to buff your attackers back and fight 4v5 for a turn. Now we don't. We're left with a 2v3 which then goes into a 2v4 and that's it. You don't have mitigating options, and even fewer chances for rng rolls once u lose a ship.
3. Biggs - he continues to be in the meta no matter what, in fact even better than before. With all the nerfs to attacker damage, it's near impossible to kill biggs once he taunts. Get a bad rng roll and he heals back up. Oh and do we actually see a new meta lineup? Nope. It's almost always biggs and 2 ties (previously biggs and 4 ties).
4. Growth - new players would have been building up the meta ships. Now most of them (other than biggs) have been nerfed to sub-par status. This is a huge slap in their face.
5. Endurance - is not really enduring. It's dying more than ever.
So, what can be done?
3v3 is a bad idea to begin with. It amplifies the RNG effect since you have less options to mitigate it. Either make it at least a 4v4, or give some other ships self taunt options. Alternatively, just make the first attack of TL ships a 100% proc.
Biggs has to either be nerfed or the nerfs on all other ships should be reversed. Let's be fair to the growing players too and not kill off their current inventory. It's way too difficult to take out biggs with just 3 starting ships and RNG biting at your herls. Dispel is also now almost a must unless you wish to have your opponent behind a biggs wall.
Reinforcements should be available on turn 1. in 3v3, once u lose a ship and are unable to reinforce u have effectively lost.
Having played since Dec'15, I really loved fleet battles and had always advocated for it since day1. Now I can't say any more - seems like a waste of time to me and I only do it because of fleet currency and zeta mats. Used to be able to climb easily but now I usually take 2-4 times as long to move maybe 4 spots, and that includes random losses in between because RNG makes it worse now. Now, it's probably the worst part of the game for me. Really hoping this will be addressed.
I will simply ask for a refund of the real money that i spent for falcon and reaper because they nerfed them. Imagine a nerf to JTR after a while wow hold on they already did that on sith raid right?
Something just seems horribly off since the update. Just now I started with Fives, Biggs, Vader my opponent had FOTF, Biggs, Vader. Both Thrawn capital ships. His Biggs resisted my Fives debuff on basic 3 straight times and my vaders debuff ability block special! I know the saying small sample size, bad rng, but this has played out pretty much the same since the update. It's like the AI has decided to rng the whole match in it's favor. Ships just doesnt make any sense anymore. I think my win percentage since the update has dropped to 20% or less, just garbage
Nothing to suggest that this bad run of RNG would not have happened without the update.
Therefore no reason to automatically correlate the 2 things.
Could just be bad luck/bad timing.
the biggs issue is a real problem and i don't deny that; they should have lowered his protection recharge (or something else to make him less ridiculous in the new mechanics). however, with biggs unchanged, seems the way to deal with it now is dispel and/or buff immunity, for which there are options; relying on fast damage isn't going to work anymore. the square peg most of us have used against biggs is not going to fit into the new round hole. unfair? absolutely since we had no way to know it would be like this.
being able to reinforce on turn one is something i'd thought about too, and i was surprised that you can't. i wonder if the reason they didn't do that is because that's what everyone would likely do if they were able, whether they had lost a ship yet or not.
Reinforcements should be available on turn 1. in 3v3, once u lose a ship and are unable to reinforce u have effectively lost.
This has happened to me several times and I've still managed to win, although it's certainly made it more difficult. Maybe the format isn't your problem?
I have absolutely no problem burning down Biggs but I also run reinforcements that have dispels plus Vader now has a 100% dispel and turn meter removal. Stop trying to focus down other ships and burn down Biggs from the get go. Get your target locks up on him as much as possible
Replies
As an aside - the "small sample size" issue is the rng problem in a fleet battle with fewer starting ships. If one person's FOTP double taps and others doesn't, or one gets a target lock and the others doesn't or one crits andthe other's doesn't or someone dodges - its a bigger deal, because there are only 3 ships out.
One of the issues with ships 2.0 is that they reduced "sample size" - thereby reducing the player's ability to mitigate poor rng, thereby increasing the overall effect of rng on the final outcome.
But yeah, ships 2.0 makes me grouchy.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Also, somehow I find AI to be extremely lucky in this gamble, like its dice has 6 dots on sides with 1 and 2 dots. Hope its just my temporarily misfortune
Just sayin'
Everyone is saying "Much more RNG now" but not actually explaining what that means or giving any examples. It's at risk of becoming a meaningless excuse.
The folks who HAVE given examples cite TFP, which actually had its dodge reduced, which makes it LESS random compared to ships 1.0.
We argue that we don't, they give it to us anyway while ignoring what we do want &/or need & nerfing/breaking things that were fine.
Welcome to swgoh.
Wrong, you have that exactly backwards.
The lower the odds of an positive event occurring the *more* dependent winning becomes on RNG . If in an equal match, and 1 ITF dodges and the other doesn't that's a permanent 25% TM gain (when maxed) advantage that owners capital ship has for the entire match - and that's game probably deciding.
The same holds true for target locks, critical hits, etc. The more of the positive effects you gain over your opponent, the more likely you are to win - and the lower the odds of those positive things occurring the more likely they are to be game deciding for the person who gets the most.
And having less ships further compounds the problem because now you have less chances to create those positive effects, making the effects that much more game changing.
Hence this new mode is even more dependent on RNG than before.
after a couple days i guess i'm getting the hang of it now, though i despise how suddenly they thrust all this on us, giving no opportunity to learn the ropes and devise such alternate strategies before our arena payouts depended on our knowledge of the new system.
FOTP double tap, dodges, target lock (by FOTP or TFP), crits, etc.
And with fewer ships and thus fewer opportunities for players to mitigate bad RNG means that RNG has more of an effect on the outcome, not less. Your math is backwards.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Unfortunately, in the past the meta lineup left u with 4 TL options and possibly a 5th. You had a choice to roll the rng dice and try going for opponent reaper first or killing biggs. Now, everything revolves around TL and biggs, where everything hitting biggs is nothing other than a wet noodle so u HAVE to TL and taunt biggs.
Between chimaeras, whoever is faster wins. Otherwise, assuming none of ur tfps dodge, it becomes a 50/50 tossup on who gets ultimate first then the other loses.
Ships 2.0 has on the whole been very disappointing, unexciting and time consuming. Game changers say it takes a shorter time - i wholly disagree. It used to take 1-1.5min, now it takes 3-4min on average with almost ALL reinforcements coming out. With bad rng and 0 TLs, it's a definite lose when opponent biggs keeps healing and reinforcing while u start with 3, get chipped to 2 then 1 and dead.
My suggestion is to remove the nerfs on the existing ships. It's already a huge slap for endgame players who invested heavily in their main fleet, and an even bigger slap to new players who had to make a choice based on existing options before ships 2.0.
Or even better, get rid of this stupid update altogether.
Some game changers are saying it takes longer. Even having to switch to auto because they are out of time. They took RNG and multiplied it by 10, reduced the ships making Biggs even more important. Stupid kitten update. They really should try playing their own game.
It's not the AI being extremely lucky it's just the fact that with 3 ships, the effect of rng is amplified. And the bigger issue is that practically everyone STILL uses biggs - there isnt any change to starting lineup if biggs is always still there is it? The fact that he's still there and practically all attackers have a nerf to damage makes it near impossible to take down biggs once opponent lands a TL, and then TLs again after u wetnoodled ****'s shields.
Am really hating this update.
1. Time and duration - before the update, battles were really much quicker (end game players tend to win in 1-2min). Now you're burning through almost all reinforcements. Myself I take 3-4min on average.
2. RNG - the effects of RNG are worse than ever. Back when it was 5v5, there was enough opportunity to catchup back from bad rng rolls. We had options. Lost a ship right at the start? You can reinforce, or you could use Chimaera's heal to buff your attackers back and fight 4v5 for a turn. Now we don't. We're left with a 2v3 which then goes into a 2v4 and that's it. You don't have mitigating options, and even fewer chances for rng rolls once u lose a ship.
3. Biggs - he continues to be in the meta no matter what, in fact even better than before. With all the nerfs to attacker damage, it's near impossible to kill biggs once he taunts. Get a bad rng roll and he heals back up. Oh and do we actually see a new meta lineup? Nope. It's almost always biggs and 2 ties (previously biggs and 4 ties).
4. Growth - new players would have been building up the meta ships. Now most of them (other than biggs) have been nerfed to sub-par status. This is a huge slap in their face.
5. Endurance - is not really enduring. It's dying more than ever.
So, what can be done?
3v3 is a bad idea to begin with. It amplifies the RNG effect since you have less options to mitigate it. Either make it at least a 4v4, or give some other ships self taunt options. Alternatively, just make the first attack of TL ships a 100% proc.
Biggs has to either be nerfed or the nerfs on all other ships should be reversed. Let's be fair to the growing players too and not kill off their current inventory. It's way too difficult to take out biggs with just 3 starting ships and RNG biting at your herls. Dispel is also now almost a must unless you wish to have your opponent behind a biggs wall.
Reinforcements should be available on turn 1. in 3v3, once u lose a ship and are unable to reinforce u have effectively lost.
Having played since Dec'15, I really loved fleet battles and had always advocated for it since day1. Now I can't say any more - seems like a waste of time to me and I only do it because of fleet currency and zeta mats. Used to be able to climb easily but now I usually take 2-4 times as long to move maybe 4 spots, and that includes random losses in between because RNG makes it worse now. Now, it's probably the worst part of the game for me. Really hoping this will be addressed.
Nothing to suggest that this bad run of RNG would not have happened without the update.
Therefore no reason to automatically correlate the 2 things.
Could just be bad luck/bad timing.
being able to reinforce on turn one is something i'd thought about too, and i was surprised that you can't. i wonder if the reason they didn't do that is because that's what everyone would likely do if they were able, whether they had lost a ship yet or not.
This has happened to me several times and I've still managed to win, although it's certainly made it more difficult. Maybe the format isn't your problem?