Just found out about the tie fighter dodge nerf...after I wasted my omegas on his ability to grant TM to the capital ship. I want my mats back. Man this game is irritating as hell
Can we call it what it is? This seems to me to be a pure crystal grab. Is it more difficult and takes more thought? Sure. But now it’s like old school arena meta where it’s often RNG when you lose. Get dodged too many times? You lose. Get resisted too many times? You lose...losing randomly doesn’t make something more fun, it makes it more obnoxious....
If they want to make it difficult, fine, but shouldn’t just be pure lottery based....
Agreed pure money grab, hey we nerfed all the ships you spents several months to a year to build up but you can buy these new materials and get some of that back? If you thought this was going to make people want to play fleet more you must be way out of touch with the fan base. Hey guess what it's all rng now... May the odds be ever in your favour...
Some players have spent months farming ships and gearing/modding pilots for them. Others have actually spent money on ships. Several of those ships were nerfed very strongly in the recent update. Reaper, TFP, and Millennium Falcon to name just a few.
They'd be poor game makers if they didn't rebalance OP ships. That is the nature of things. Frankly, I don't think they do enough of it with regards to toons, though at least there's a big enough variety on that side of things to offset it somewhat. On the ship side, the limited number makes it far more important.
i agree, they don't do enough of that. introducing something overpowered is a mistake, and it should be corrected. their normal path of introducing something that's even more overpowered to counter it is silly and counter-productive; just fix the mistake. i understand people feeling like they wasted effort/resources, but it's usually pretty clear if something is too strong and in need of correction. what's disappointing is that it isn't just as clear to the devs before they introduce the bloody thing in the first place.
on another note, the grand foul up in all this was the suddenness of it. as at least one other post i saw alluded to, they could have saved a lot of this apoplectic rage by introducing the new system in a way that let us practice and learn for a while before having to use it in the arena. the arena should not be a place to fumble blindly learning the system because of the limited attempts and because rewards are on the line. it's a place to compete once you know what the hell you're doing.
Some players have spent months farming ships and gearing/modding pilots for them. Others have actually spent money on ships. Several of those ships were nerfed very strongly in the recent update. Reaper, TFP, and Millennium Falcon to name just a few.
They'd be poor game makers if they didn't rebalance OP ships. That is the nature of things. Frankly, I don't think they do enough of it with regards to toons, though at least there's a big enough variety on that side of things to offset it somewhat. On the ship side, the limited number makes it far more important.
I also don't believe it's more RNG now. I have no idea where that's coming from. From what I've seen, it places far more emphasis on strategy.
Though, because it places more emphasis on strategy and picking ships that are effective against your opponent, it makes it far more difficult to passively defend against attackers.
How does them not "Rebalancing" certain ships make them poor game makers? They should have simply made them right the first place or changed them um a month or two after. Not let people invest an entire year in said ships and then say, Hey, these ships are too OP, I am now going to make them obsolete!. What you said sir, is nonsensical. A good game developer develops content that is playable for years without modifications, or at least one who makes the modifications transparent to the player, where are our patch notes? Then again, said modifications should be made immediately after release, not years after.
please CG, can we get a complete ships-rollback?
it must not be that effort, since the first rollback for about 2 years with the healthbar rollback you all must be experts in rollbacks
I plan on adding a post everyday untill something gets done! I absolutely HATE the ship rework! I'm a guildleader and the majority of my guild is either getting destroyed (and upset) or like me find it way too easy and boring while wasting my fleet roster as they won't get used now as battles are too fast (and upset) the nerf to the Reaper and TFP was extremely excessive and a real kick in the teeth to those who've worked so hard ro farm the pilots/ships. I was 1 of the few it seems that loved fleets before, it was my fav part of the game and this "rework" has me so upset I've thought about quitting ever since. PLZ do something! Either make ships 2.0 a seperate mode for any who may enjoy it or give me my 5 ship battles back!
Some players have spent months farming ships and gearing/modding pilots for them. Others have actually spent money on ships. Several of those ships were nerfed very strongly in the recent update. Reaper, TFP, and Millennium Falcon to name just a few.
They'd be poor game makers if they didn't rebalance OP ships. That is the nature of things. Frankly, I don't think they do enough of it with regards to toons, though at least there's a big enough variety on that side of things to offset it somewhat. On the ship side, the limited number makes it far more important.
I also don't believe it's more RNG now. I have no idea where that's coming from. From what I've seen, it places far more emphasis on strategy.
Though, because it places more emphasis on strategy and picking ships that are effective against your opponent, it makes it far more difficult to passively defend against attackers.
The way to "balance" is to bring weaker ships up to the level of the stronger - not nerf things that people have been spending time and resources on (especially when some people have spent real money obtaining the said item).
Secondly, more RNG dependent because with 3 ships instead of 5, your ability to mitigate bad RNG due to speed coin flips (if both are using TFP, for example) dodge, target lock (or not), critical hits, etc. is more limited. Therefore fewer ships increases the role of RNG in the final outcome.
Currently, there is very little diversity, so "picking ships strategically based on your opponent" isn't really a thing. And actually, I have held passively on defense far better than before the update. Barely falling out of the top 10 in 15+ hours. So I'm not sure what your basing that assumption on.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
The way to "balance" is to bring weaker ships up to the level of the stronger - not nerf things that people have been spending time and resources on (especially when some people have spent real money obtaining the said item).
strengthening weaker ships brings balance for those who have those ships. weakening the overpowered mistake brings balance for everyone. besides, whether weakening the strong ship or strengthening the weak ship, the strong ship becomes weakened by comparison either way, i.e. it's still a nerf whether direct or indirect.
They should have simply made them right the first place or changed them um a month or two after. Not let people invest an entire year in said ships and then say, Hey, these ships are too OP, I am now going to make them obsolete!
The first half of your post is impossible for any game made after Warcraft 2. Once expansion packs and content updates and the long-tail approach to content meant that no game was ever permanently finished until it was cancelled. Every character added is going to add an exponential number of interactions that will cloud all sorts of things.
If something is overpowered, it stunts development. Anything you add now has to be as-or-more overpowered than the things you have already, otherwise it’ll never be used and the gameplay gets stale and dies.
You had the overpowered ships for anywhere from 12 to 18 months depending on when they were released. You profited from them massively. Nothing lasts forever, so decide what you want to do: Work on new ships and crew and take a dip in rewards for the short term before re-establishing yourself, or cut your losses and stick with what you have, because by now you’ve made a bunch of crystals and fleet tokens and you can now continue to play and easily get 1000 fleet tokens a day with minimal input.
They should have simply made them right the first place or changed them um a month or two after. Not let people invest an entire year in said ships and then say, Hey, these ships are too OP, I am now going to make them obsolete!
The first half of your post is impossible for any game made after Warcraft 2. Once expansion packs and content updates and the long-tail approach to content meant that no game was ever permanently finished until it was cancelled. Every character added is going to add an exponential number of interactions that will cloud all sorts of things.
If something is overpowered, it stunts development. Anything you add now has to be as-or-more overpowered than the things you have already, otherwise it’ll never be used and the gameplay gets stale and dies.
While I would agree with this in principle, this is precisely how CG has handles character releases in squad arena for two and half years. Hence the numerous posts wringing their hands about "power creep".
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
They should have simply made them right the first place or changed them um a month or two after. Not let people invest an entire year in said ships and then say, Hey, these ships are too OP, I am now going to make them obsolete!
The first half of your post is impossible for any game made after Warcraft 2. Once expansion packs and content updates and the long-tail approach to content meant that no game was ever permanently finished until it was cancelled. Every character added is going to add an exponential number of interactions that will cloud all sorts of things.
If something is overpowered, it stunts development. Anything you add now has to be as-or-more overpowered than the things you have already, otherwise it’ll never be used and the gameplay gets stale and dies.
While I would agree with this in principle, this is precisely how CG has handles character releases in squad arena for two and half years. Hence the numerous posts wringing their hands about "power creep".
yes indeed. in fact i've probably written a hand-wringing post myself about that somewhere.
it gets rather annoying sometimes.
Ships takes too much time now and I can’t let real life suffer because of this. If my payout time was later in the evening then maybe it wouldn’t be so bad. I will aim for top 50 at best now and grind out those zetas even slower now.
Opening with 3 ships is not a good idea, 1 missed target lock and you lose. Because without taunt one of your ships will be obliterated and mother ship's reinforcement at CD.3 ships opening brings a hard choice to player. Do i use tough ship or fast or a hard hitter? Options are limited. If developers insist with 3 ship opening at least they should fix mother ship's reinforcement CD. Otherwise too much rng based arena will kill player's fun. Because with 5 ships opening we have options and we handle the situation with care maybe change the fight to our favor.
My 2 days experience showed me that at the beginning of an encounter i know defetaed or win.
Longer, slower, and more RNG dependent, so it's the exact opposite of what they claimed they were aiming for.
On the other hand, it nerfed nearly everything and tried to make us pay to get back what we had before, so mission accomished as far as CG is concerned, I guess?
The next person I hear telling me that this made ships more engaging will be the first.
I've played this game for going on 2 years now, I've never complained about anything. In fact, I never say much about anything. But I have to say, the changes made to ships... suck.
I love how before the update, people who hated ships were praising the change and disliking anyone who didn't want the update, yet now its a very large consensus that people hate ships. The reasoning is obvious: People who didn't like or invest in ships before "Still" won't invest in them, no matter what the devs think, and the people who liked ships before and were having fun with it just had their fun ruined and are forced to invest into new things all over again before they can have fun again.
Eventually it will become the same thing, with people who enjoy ships doing that, and people who don't, not. Nothing will change in the end.
I'm truly hoping that the pve table for ships is better. I used to enjoy ships and the pvp, but after these changes, not only does it take longer and more effort despite having less time, but all the ships I cared for are less effective and getting past the Biggs wall of protection feels even worse. Nothing that happened with the current ship changes makes me want to play it at all and the only reason I am even bothering is because of zeta farming, which ironically has little else to do with ships.
This ship update has been absolutely terrible. Ships that people invested time and energy in have been nerfed. Lowering the fleet to 3 ships now makes a fleet battles even more RNG dependent. Battles take longer because everyone hits like a wet noodle. It's as if CG is trying to anger their customers as much as possible. If they wanted to make ships more interesting they could have just added more ships. A capital ship for grievous or a Tie Defender would have been fun and interesting. Instead they release this garbage.
This fleet update is the absolute worst. Most of my guild dislikes it and the 3x3 format, including those that weren't necessarily top of their fleet shard. I agree with the sentiment of the overwhelming majority of comments on this thread, there is not much positive in this fleet update, particularly for long time players. The only good things are the reinforcement abilities and unlocking ship omegas.
Personally I feel really hard done by with this update. I spent the last year building a meta fleet that is now basically useless. I invested heavily in crew that would improve my fleet ranking over arena and sometimes raids. And now thats all gone.
I used to stay top 20 easily overnight and took 1st on payout every day for over 6 months. It used to take 3-4 battles to get to that point now I need to use crystals to refresh and it takes 8-10 battles (which take longer) to move the same number of positions. There is very little strategy now and rng is king. Miss a target lock or get evaded straight up and its all over. There is no coming back.
Please roll back fleets to 1.0 and do an update that makes improvements to previously underutilised ships and doesn't nerf those ships many of us have put an immense amount of effort into building. Tie Reaper was not an easy ship to build up!!
This ship update has been absolutely terrible. Ships that people invested time and energy in have been nerfed. Lowering the fleet to 3 ships now makes a fleet battles even more RNG dependent. Battles take longer because everyone hits like a wet noodle. It's as if CG is trying to anger their customers as much as possible. If they wanted to make ships more interesting they could have just added more ships. A capital ship for grievous or a Tie Defender would have been fun and interesting. Instead they release this garbage.
This, absolutely.
The reinforcement skills do add something to ship battles, I give them that.
And some maybe a lot of ships needed a rework.
But they should have kept it at 5v5 and should have added more reinforcement spots so we could use more ships.
Instead there's fewer ships we can use now.
And of course they should have introduced more capital ships and non- capital ships for diversity and synergy.
They had good intentions but chose to change the wrong things.
Thank you, EA. I've been looking for a reason to quit this game and, after over 2.5 years of playing and almost always being in the top 20 in my ship arena, I have fought 15 battles and won one from a spot of over 40. Worst thing done to this game since they added ships. Time to move to Strike Force full time
Agree with the majority. I do not fault CG for trying something new. But the Sith Raid is boring and the ships update is a slap in the face for the reasons stated by my wise compatriots above. I hope cg gets it right the next time as I really enjoyed the game prior to the recent changes. Flip side - love the QoL updates.
So i haven't read all that you guys posted in these 22 pages so i'm gonna ask this : after months of spending every resource possible in my empire ships/pilots and Tarkin's Executrix (including what we received two days ago),you're telling me it was all for nothing?!Even though my fleet arena was 440 k power somehow it could not match a single Chimaera fleet team and dropped into "top" 300 in two days.And now FOTP,Tie Reaper,TFP and other ships are pure garbage?!Great job EA/CG!
Replies
Why not filter down crystal rewards as they do in arena? Despite this 'grand' update, fleet is still the unloved ginger step child.
If you want us to dust ourselves down after 2.0, having the crystal dangling carrot would at least (MAYBE) soften the blow.
Just a thought.
PS: Adding more ships that were more OP is a better way of doing things. Nerfing the players hard work is soul destroying.
If they want to make it difficult, fine, but shouldn’t just be pure lottery based....
i agree, they don't do enough of that. introducing something overpowered is a mistake, and it should be corrected. their normal path of introducing something that's even more overpowered to counter it is silly and counter-productive; just fix the mistake. i understand people feeling like they wasted effort/resources, but it's usually pretty clear if something is too strong and in need of correction. what's disappointing is that it isn't just as clear to the devs before they introduce the bloody thing in the first place.
on another note, the grand foul up in all this was the suddenness of it. as at least one other post i saw alluded to, they could have saved a lot of this apoplectic rage by introducing the new system in a way that let us practice and learn for a while before having to use it in the arena. the arena should not be a place to fumble blindly learning the system because of the limited attempts and because rewards are on the line. it's a place to compete once you know what the hell you're doing.
How does them not "Rebalancing" certain ships make them poor game makers? They should have simply made them right the first place or changed them um a month or two after. Not let people invest an entire year in said ships and then say, Hey, these ships are too OP, I am now going to make them obsolete!. What you said sir, is nonsensical. A good game developer develops content that is playable for years without modifications, or at least one who makes the modifications transparent to the player, where are our patch notes? Then again, said modifications should be made immediately after release, not years after.
it must not be that effort, since the first rollback for about 2 years with the healthbar rollback you all must be experts in rollbacks
The way to "balance" is to bring weaker ships up to the level of the stronger - not nerf things that people have been spending time and resources on (especially when some people have spent real money obtaining the said item).
Secondly, more RNG dependent because with 3 ships instead of 5, your ability to mitigate bad RNG due to speed coin flips (if both are using TFP, for example) dodge, target lock (or not), critical hits, etc. is more limited. Therefore fewer ships increases the role of RNG in the final outcome.
Currently, there is very little diversity, so "picking ships strategically based on your opponent" isn't really a thing. And actually, I have held passively on defense far better than before the update. Barely falling out of the top 10 in 15+ hours. So I'm not sure what your basing that assumption on.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
strengthening weaker ships brings balance for those who have those ships. weakening the overpowered mistake brings balance for everyone. besides, whether weakening the strong ship or strengthening the weak ship, the strong ship becomes weakened by comparison either way, i.e. it's still a nerf whether direct or indirect.
The first half of your post is impossible for any game made after Warcraft 2. Once expansion packs and content updates and the long-tail approach to content meant that no game was ever permanently finished until it was cancelled. Every character added is going to add an exponential number of interactions that will cloud all sorts of things.
If something is overpowered, it stunts development. Anything you add now has to be as-or-more overpowered than the things you have already, otherwise it’ll never be used and the gameplay gets stale and dies.
You had the overpowered ships for anywhere from 12 to 18 months depending on when they were released. You profited from them massively. Nothing lasts forever, so decide what you want to do: Work on new ships and crew and take a dip in rewards for the short term before re-establishing yourself, or cut your losses and stick with what you have, because by now you’ve made a bunch of crystals and fleet tokens and you can now continue to play and easily get 1000 fleet tokens a day with minimal input.
While I would agree with this in principle, this is precisely how CG has handles character releases in squad arena for two and half years. Hence the numerous posts wringing their hands about "power creep".
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
yes indeed. in fact i've probably written a hand-wringing post myself about that somewhere.
it gets rather annoying sometimes.
My 2 days experience showed me that at the beginning of an encounter i know defetaed or win.
On the other hand, it nerfed nearly everything and tried to make us pay to get back what we had before, so mission accomished as far as CG is concerned, I guess?
The next person I hear telling me that this made ships more engaging will be the first.
Eventually it will become the same thing, with people who enjoy ships doing that, and people who don't, not. Nothing will change in the end.
Nothing but less people playing the game.
Personally I feel really hard done by with this update. I spent the last year building a meta fleet that is now basically useless. I invested heavily in crew that would improve my fleet ranking over arena and sometimes raids. And now thats all gone.
I used to stay top 20 easily overnight and took 1st on payout every day for over 6 months. It used to take 3-4 battles to get to that point now I need to use crystals to refresh and it takes 8-10 battles (which take longer) to move the same number of positions. There is very little strategy now and rng is king. Miss a target lock or get evaded straight up and its all over. There is no coming back.
Please roll back fleets to 1.0 and do an update that makes improvements to previously underutilised ships and doesn't nerf those ships many of us have put an immense amount of effort into building. Tie Reaper was not an easy ship to build up!!
This, absolutely.
The reinforcement skills do add something to ship battles, I give them that.
And some maybe a lot of ships needed a rework.
But they should have kept it at 5v5 and should have added more reinforcement spots so we could use more ships.
Instead there's fewer ships we can use now.
And of course they should have introduced more capital ships and non- capital ships for diversity and synergy.
They had good intentions but chose to change the wrong things.
3v3 battles suck.