The new system sucks. Much more RNG now. It isn't really funny to play.
Just sayin'
Everyone is saying "Much more RNG now" but not actually explaining what that means or giving any examples. It's at risk of becoming a meaningless excuse.
The folks who HAVE given examples cite TFP, which actually had its dodge reduced, which makes it LESS random compared to ships 1.0.
FOTP double tap, dodges, target lock (by FOTP or TFP), crits, etc.
And with fewer ships and thus fewer opportunities for players to mitigate bad RNG means that RNG has more of an effect on the outcome, not less. Your math is backwards.
So don’t use those ships? Every game has high-risk, high-reward characters or mechanics. TIE dodge and FOT are exactly those.
There are much safer ships out there with lower ceilings on their potential, but higher reliability. Use those instead.
I feel like a lot of the complaints are predicated on a desire to preserve an outdated meta.
Congrats - you responded to half of the points in the first paragraph and completely ignored the second. Crits and dodges happen with almost any ship. The AI also chooses random targets.
Fewer starting ships reduce the number of chances (and strategic options) for the player to mitigate bad RNG.
I ignored the second half because it’s irrelevant. Fewer starting ships reduces all the stuff you said—but does so equally on both sides. If you had an imbalance of randomness on one side or the other, then sure, you’d have a valid point. But the relative dependence on luck remains the same. Hell, if anything it’s slightly in your favor for the reason you pointed out—the AI will target randomly and you won’t. (Although, ever notice how the fleet AI seems to focus fire a lot better than the squad AI? Just a digression about a thing I’ve noticed)
The new meta of 2.0 is about stability and reliability. It’s about reducing the number of variables. I’ve been having a lot of good results with my lineup and reinforcements so long as I don’t go up against Tarkin, because Executrix’s ultimate is broken as hell in this format.
People complain any time a meta changes. It’s easier to complain than adapt to a new method.
Sure, you dumped a lot of resources into ships that were spectacular under the old meta and now are only metely very good. Talk to anyone with a zeta Darth Maul about that. Enjoy the rewards you got under 1.0 and determine for yourself if you want to put the effort into maintaining them under 2.0. If not—which is a totally fine and valid conclusion—then do one fleet attack a day for activity completion and collect your 1000 fleet tokens and 80k building materials each day and do the stuff you enjoy.
If you decide that it is worth the investment, then more power to you and I’m right there with you, buddy. I’m having a great time looking at and trying new combinations. Hopefully one day the capital ships are reworked so there isn’t such a clear top ship and clear bottom ship, but until then just work with what you’ve got and get the rewards you earn.
Are any of you other whales getting frustrated with the game changes? Every time they rework something, they introduce a new currency. This makes the pile I have saved nearly worthless and dramatically diminishes my whale advantage because they ensure that I have no whale way to accelerate getting these new currencies. In ships, now they’ve opened up ship omegas and gold ship ability mats. Like omega and zeta mats, I have to farm these same as everyone. Every month or two they hit me my for another $300 for a new toon, which they will f2p in 3 months. And they aren’t gonna let me max it anyway because they’re gonna make me farm omega and zeta currency.
I respect F2P players and there needs to be a balance. But please show some respect for the people who pay the money necessary to develop and operate the game. If it weren’t for me and people like me, there would be no game, or else everyone would be P2P.
I whale because I have more money than time. I don’t have time to watch dozens of YouTube videos telling me how to make sure that such and such toon needs exactly these mods, and at least xxx speed; and all the other strategies. Part of my respect for F2P comes from your willingness to do this, and it pays off for things like raids. But I expect to be able to buy some level of competitiveness, esp in PVP scenarios like arena.
If you hate whales, tell me and I’ll leave and take my funding for the game with me.
First, I’m fine with ships 2.0. I used to just auto the one ship battle a day. So anything new is interesting.
My main point is I wish they had untied pilots and ships in this latest update. By doing this I think it opens the door to more variety. This would allow A-Wings, Y-Wings, TIE Interceptors, TIE Bombers, and other sought after ships without having a new character, here’s looking at you Porkins. Plus the Separatists have droid fighters who don’t even have pilots.
You also could’ve issued a new bomber class that might interact/counteract capital ships.
I still like the capital ships having commanders. It would be awesome to have Darth Vader’s Ravager on the playing field. And you could still have Vader’s TIE Advanced.
As for special ships, aka Luke’s X-Wing, Hans Millenium Falcon, Wedges X-Wing, they can still exist without pilots.
This would make ships a whole extra game within SWGOH, which would be awesome.
That’s my take on ships, what do you guys think?
Lastly, I want to say thanks to the Devs for a fantastic May. So much content, you guys must work a million hours a week.
What has happened in the current meta is the developers have purposely slowed it down for Thrawn Commanders. Since only three ships are allowed at the start of the battle, instead of five, a first turn kill has all but been eliminated. This was an enormous Advantage for thrawn users. Now, the only way to achieve a first turn kill is to forgo using Biggs in your starting lineup. If you do that, the first ship of mine you kill will be the last one, because I will run you slam over after you have shot your wad. Yes, gone are the days in which no thought process was required in fielding a team. All thrawn users had to do was choose five fast hard hitting ships and throw them into the lineup. No thought process required. Now, you need Synergy to win. 5 fast hard-hitting ships is not synergy. It never was. As a result, everyday these thrawn users continue to cry baby and I find it extremely hilarious. It is the business model of the developers to build the meta and then to destroy it. This process is repeated over and over to ensure people continue to spend money and continue to stay engaged within the game trying to build new teams all of the time. I have been warning about this meta shift against thrawn for months. As long as these thrawn user's continue to cling to an outdated meta, the developers will continue to undermine him. You think it's bad now? You just wait until PvE for ships is released and everyone can start farming every ship. Wait until the next few ships are released. You can bet your bottom dollar, they will be aimed at undermining the continued abuse of one Commander, thrawn. You don't ride a sinking ship until it sinks. You jump ship before it gets to that point. Thrawn users this is only a shot across your bow. The next one will sink your ship completely. And rest assured, I will come here every day to get a huge laugh at your expense.
An enormous thank you to the Developers foreseeing the clear and blatant problem with the fleet Arena, the abuse of one Commander and neglect of every other. In one swift move you have brought much more balance to the game and have forced all players to have to use their mind to field a synergetic team. As I'm sure you are seeing, people are still desperately clinging to their thrawn Commanders. Please Release another Salvo of anti Thrawn measures to further complete the destruction of this current meta which has been able to abused the fleet arena for far too long. You did an outstanding job this time! Keep up the great work
Sorry but you’re just wrong. I can eliminate a ship before reinfjrments, with Biggs present, using Chimeara.
Wrong? Hes right, you’re probably just facing less strategic people
I get what you mean, but I still kind of like having pilots be tied to their ship. It gives me a reason to work on characters I would otherwise probably ignore.
I agree, though, that we need more generic A-Wing Bomber type ships, but think we can do that with the introduction of some more generic characters—for example, Rebel Pilot exists as a mob in the game.
It would also be interesting if those generic characters could pilot multiple ships—so you could only have one Rex’s ARC or 5’s Umbaran Starfighter, but you could deploy multiple Clone Trooper Sgt ARCs, since Sargeis a generic character meant to represent any old clone.
They just need to add more ships to the game. They changed ships for the better, but a biproduct of changing the system without adding new ships was that they just shuffled the meta around. We need at least 10 new ships that are competitive to diversify the meta make it more fun.
@evoluza I don’t mind spending. But if you make my advantage last a quarter as long for the same money, or you invalidate my advantage in other ways like extra currencies, then me and my wallet will go away.
The game takes whales and F2P to be a vibrant place. I think it’s unbalanced right now, since the ships rework in particular.
There is only one thing on the planet that businesses listen to.
This. A bunch of babble on a forum (that I myself take part of, so no insult meant) does not signify the game grinding to a halt because people are hating it. A drastic decrease in profits is actually the indicator of how ppl are interested in and satisfied with the game.
They just need to add more ships to the game. They changed ships for the better, but a biproduct of changing the system without adding new ships was that they just shuffled the meta around. We need at least 10 new ships that are competitive to diversify the meta make it more fun.
Yup. The impression I got from dev comments is that they had been holding off new ships and capital ships until after 2.0 launched because of the low player engagement with 1.0.
Hopefully once the PvE board is activated they’ll start putting in more new stuff.
I think they should revamp capital ships. Make each of its ability as targetable nodes. So you would either choose to attack fighters or risk attacking capital ship to reduce its effectiveness or even destroy it.
That way bombers could become useful
Attackable nodes is a great idea. It would definitely make tanks more attractive then they already are. Soak up damage from fighters and focus on destroying capital ship main abilities. Then bring in attackers for the remaining fighters.
I think they should revamp capital ships. Make each of its ability as targetable nodes. So you would either choose to attack fighters or risk attacking capital ship to reduce its effectiveness or even destroy it.
That way bombers could become useful
Like the AAT, but with Capital Ship versus Ships? Sounds kinda sweet.
I kinda want them to empty the Pilot seats so that we can choose from a selection of viable Pilots per ship rather than depending on fixtures. So if you're using Millenium Falcon you could throw in Rey and Finn, or various forms of Han and Chewie, or Rey and Chewie, etcetera. If you're using Home One you can choose between Ackbar or Holdo (not quite canon, but you get the idea). Each would give the Ship a modified array of abilities.
I'm still not used to Ships 2.0 yet, so I'm withholding comment on it until I know what's what.
"The dark side, the light... both have merit. Why not half of each...?" - Harvey "Two-Face" Dent
It's easier to generate a complaint than it is to generate a compliment amongst complaints. Just because the complainers are more vocal doesn't necessarily mean they are the majority.
"The dark side, the light... both have merit. Why not half of each...?" - Harvey "Two-Face" Dent
There is only one thing on the planet that businesses listen to.
This. A bunch of babble on a forum (that I myself take part of, so no insult meant) does not signify the game grinding to a halt because people are hating it. A drastic decrease in profits is actually the indicator of how ppl are interested in and satisfied with the game.
I agree with this except their profits will be through the roof this quarter due to release of Solo movie and toons associated with the movie in game. Multiple videos now showing Solo movie toons performing well in STR.
Plus double drops and everyone dropping dough on vaults to farm vHan and vChewie.
It was already seen in the quarter 1 results of 18 mil in profits with Jedi Training Rey surprise release and there was lots of belly aching going on.
The new system sucks. Much more RNG now. It isn't really funny to play.
Just sayin'
Everyone is saying "Much more RNG now" but not actually explaining what that means or giving any examples. It's at risk of becoming a meaningless excuse.
The folks who HAVE given examples cite TFP, which actually had its dodge reduced, which makes it LESS random compared to ships 1.0.
Yes...except when going against said tfp...the ai magically dodges everytime...so the rng is actually worse than it was before because of less ships to attack while avoiding tfp
I wanted to wait a few days before posting my input on the change just to make sure I gave it a fair shake. Unfortunately I'm very disappointed with the ships rework. I realize I must have been in the minority but I really enjoyed ships before. There was an opportunity to use much more strategy than you can use now. I think this update was a big mistake for a few reasons. Please note that I've finished in the top 5 (usually 1st) every day since the update came out so this isn't a complaint due to lower ranking, it's an honest assessment.
First, the update de-emphasizes strategy and emphasizes RNG. With the old system if you get a couple of bad RNG rolls you can still recover if you play smart. With the new system, one or two bad RNG rolls and the fight is over. CG Carrie mentioned the goal was to move to a "dogfight" rather than a naval simulation but I fail to see how an RNG driven encounter is more fun than one that is more controlled by skill.
Second, and most important, the changes to the ships is infuriating. We've already had two guild members quit the game in the last week specifically because of this update. These were both members who were not whales but they were Pay-2-Play players that were spending decent money and had 2M+ GP. The overriding frustration is that many of us have spent months specifically working on ships and pilots. Often real money has gone into those updates but now several of the ships have been neutered and are far less useful than before. The TIE fighter is a perfect example. The dodge rate dropped from ~50% to 25% making that ship significantly less useful. Making substantial changes like this after many of us have invested significant time or money is just plain wrong. I understand the goal and legitimacy for CG to make money on the game but you need to do that through new content, not by destroying value and then forcing people to start farming from scratch. Nerfing ships and then adding a couple levels of omega upgrades to get them back to where they were seems lazy and greedy.
I understand that at times rebalancing is necessary but rebalancing needs to occur in a timely manner. If ships wasn't working out then it should have been paused, pulled, or reworked within 1-2 months of launch. You can't wait a year and then say "oops, we made a mistake but we fixed it now!".
I'm very disappointed and honestly this is the first time I've questioned whether it's worth continuing with the game or not.
Everyone in my ship shard chat hates the new updates. Top 20 hasn’t changed members but has made it significantly harder and more frustrating. I’ve decided to use 1 battle, get my daily done, and settle for 100 crystals rather than use 5+ battles to get to my normal 2nd place finish. The extra crystals are not worth the anger
I guess I kind of panicked, so I bought both of those expensive packs with omegas and hardware materials.
I'm now losing to teams that haven't even upgraded. My rank is dropping just as much or more than before. So, what did that $100 get me?
Hardware abilities are pretty much worthless. Some look good on paper, but once they're used, ok, it's over. It's not like a normal ability that carries throughout the match and can be reused. I fully upgraded 3 reinforcements. Tried them all in various combinations. Nothing. Helped. It doesn't matter which one I use, it's still the same game of whichever fleet gets the best RNG.
Overall I think the new ship formula fails. Longer matches. Ability materials that don't seem to help you in the least. The geo trio is being promoted right now, tried that. It gets crushed by the same old meta.
I would like this whole thing rolled back. It's not a good update.
As someone who bought the new ship material packs and upgraded quite a few ships, it's a fail. The upgrades did NOTHING. It's still the same RNG fest. I still get beaten back every day, and sometimes struggle to win or lose against fleets that didn't upgrade nearly as much as I did. I check every one of their ships when I lose and I'm always the most upgraded.
I truly feel like I took $100 and flushed it down the toilet. I'm utterly sickened by this entire update and how much easier it is to lose now. People like me who invested a ton in pilots and materials shouldn't be struggling more than ever. It's just bad and I hope they make some MAJOR improvements to it very soon. If it taught me anything is that I'm a fool for dropping any type of cash on this and expecting positive results.
Since this gets to stay here I'll just repost what I posted in my thread. Completely sickened by how much of a fail this is.
I guess I kind of panicked, so I bought both of those expensive packs with omegas and hardware materials.
I'm now losing to teams that haven't even upgraded. My rank is dropping just as much or more than before. So, what did that $100 get me?
Hardware abilities are pretty much worthless. Some look good on paper, but once they're used, ok, it's over. It's not like a normal ability that carries throughout the match and can be reused. I fully upgraded 3 reinforcements. Tried them all in various combinations. Nothing. Helped. It doesn't matter which one I use, it's still the same game of whichever fleet gets the best RNG.
Overall I think the new ship formula fails. Longer matches. Ability materials that don't seem to help you in the least. The geo trio is being promoted right now, tried that. It gets crushed by the same old meta.
I would like this whole thing rolled back. It's not a good update.
Replies
I ignored the second half because it’s irrelevant. Fewer starting ships reduces all the stuff you said—but does so equally on both sides. If you had an imbalance of randomness on one side or the other, then sure, you’d have a valid point. But the relative dependence on luck remains the same. Hell, if anything it’s slightly in your favor for the reason you pointed out—the AI will target randomly and you won’t. (Although, ever notice how the fleet AI seems to focus fire a lot better than the squad AI? Just a digression about a thing I’ve noticed)
The new meta of 2.0 is about stability and reliability. It’s about reducing the number of variables. I’ve been having a lot of good results with my lineup and reinforcements so long as I don’t go up against Tarkin, because Executrix’s ultimate is broken as hell in this format.
Sure, you dumped a lot of resources into ships that were spectacular under the old meta and now are only metely very good. Talk to anyone with a zeta Darth Maul about that. Enjoy the rewards you got under 1.0 and determine for yourself if you want to put the effort into maintaining them under 2.0. If not—which is a totally fine and valid conclusion—then do one fleet attack a day for activity completion and collect your 1000 fleet tokens and 80k building materials each day and do the stuff you enjoy.
If you decide that it is worth the investment, then more power to you and I’m right there with you, buddy. I’m having a great time looking at and trying new combinations. Hopefully one day the capital ships are reworked so there isn’t such a clear top ship and clear bottom ship, but until then just work with what you’ve got and get the rewards you earn.
I respect F2P players and there needs to be a balance. But please show some respect for the people who pay the money necessary to develop and operate the game. If it weren’t for me and people like me, there would be no game, or else everyone would be P2P.
I whale because I have more money than time. I don’t have time to watch dozens of YouTube videos telling me how to make sure that such and such toon needs exactly these mods, and at least xxx speed; and all the other strategies. Part of my respect for F2P comes from your willingness to do this, and it pays off for things like raids. But I expect to be able to buy some level of competitiveness, esp in PVP scenarios like arena.
If you hate whales, tell me and I’ll leave and take my funding for the game with me.
MG-71
My main point is I wish they had untied pilots and ships in this latest update. By doing this I think it opens the door to more variety. This would allow A-Wings, Y-Wings, TIE Interceptors, TIE Bombers, and other sought after ships without having a new character, here’s looking at you Porkins. Plus the Separatists have droid fighters who don’t even have pilots.
You also could’ve issued a new bomber class that might interact/counteract capital ships.
I still like the capital ships having commanders. It would be awesome to have Darth Vader’s Ravager on the playing field. And you could still have Vader’s TIE Advanced.
As for special ships, aka Luke’s X-Wing, Hans Millenium Falcon, Wedges X-Wing, they can still exist without pilots.
This would make ships a whole extra game within SWGOH, which would be awesome.
That’s my take on ships, what do you guys think?
Lastly, I want to say thanks to the Devs for a fantastic May. So much content, you guys must work a million hours a week.
Wrong? Hes right, you’re probably just facing less strategic people
I agree, though, that we need more generic A-Wing Bomber type ships, but think we can do that with the introduction of some more generic characters—for example, Rebel Pilot exists as a mob in the game.
It would also be interesting if those generic characters could pilot multiple ships—so you could only have one Rex’s ARC or 5’s Umbaran Starfighter, but you could deploy multiple Clone Trooper Sgt ARCs, since Sargeis a generic character meant to represent any old clone.
The game takes whales and F2P to be a vibrant place. I think it’s unbalanced right now, since the ships rework in particular.
This. A bunch of babble on a forum (that I myself take part of, so no insult meant) does not signify the game grinding to a halt because people are hating it. A drastic decrease in profits is actually the indicator of how ppl are interested in and satisfied with the game.
Yup. The impression I got from dev comments is that they had been holding off new ships and capital ships until after 2.0 launched because of the low player engagement with 1.0.
Hopefully once the PvE board is activated they’ll start putting in more new stuff.
That way bombers could become useful
Like the AAT, but with Capital Ship versus Ships? Sounds kinda sweet.
I kinda want them to empty the Pilot seats so that we can choose from a selection of viable Pilots per ship rather than depending on fixtures. So if you're using Millenium Falcon you could throw in Rey and Finn, or various forms of Han and Chewie, or Rey and Chewie, etcetera. If you're using Home One you can choose between Ackbar or Holdo (not quite canon, but you get the idea). Each would give the Ship a modified array of abilities.
I'm still not used to Ships 2.0 yet, so I'm withholding comment on it until I know what's what.
I agree with this except their profits will be through the roof this quarter due to release of Solo movie and toons associated with the movie in game. Multiple videos now showing Solo movie toons performing well in STR.
Plus double drops and everyone dropping dough on vaults to farm vHan and vChewie.
It was already seen in the quarter 1 results of 18 mil in profits with Jedi Training Rey surprise release and there was lots of belly aching going on.
Yes...except when going against said tfp...the ai magically dodges everytime...so the rng is actually worse than it was before because of less ships to attack while avoiding tfp
First, the update de-emphasizes strategy and emphasizes RNG. With the old system if you get a couple of bad RNG rolls you can still recover if you play smart. With the new system, one or two bad RNG rolls and the fight is over. CG Carrie mentioned the goal was to move to a "dogfight" rather than a naval simulation but I fail to see how an RNG driven encounter is more fun than one that is more controlled by skill.
Second, and most important, the changes to the ships is infuriating. We've already had two guild members quit the game in the last week specifically because of this update. These were both members who were not whales but they were Pay-2-Play players that were spending decent money and had 2M+ GP. The overriding frustration is that many of us have spent months specifically working on ships and pilots. Often real money has gone into those updates but now several of the ships have been neutered and are far less useful than before. The TIE fighter is a perfect example. The dodge rate dropped from ~50% to 25% making that ship significantly less useful. Making substantial changes like this after many of us have invested significant time or money is just plain wrong. I understand the goal and legitimacy for CG to make money on the game but you need to do that through new content, not by destroying value and then forcing people to start farming from scratch. Nerfing ships and then adding a couple levels of omega upgrades to get them back to where they were seems lazy and greedy.
I understand that at times rebalancing is necessary but rebalancing needs to occur in a timely manner. If ships wasn't working out then it should have been paused, pulled, or reworked within 1-2 months of launch. You can't wait a year and then say "oops, we made a mistake but we fixed it now!".
I'm very disappointed and honestly this is the first time I've questioned whether it's worth continuing with the game or not.
I'm now losing to teams that haven't even upgraded. My rank is dropping just as much or more than before. So, what did that $100 get me?
Hardware abilities are pretty much worthless. Some look good on paper, but once they're used, ok, it's over. It's not like a normal ability that carries throughout the match and can be reused. I fully upgraded 3 reinforcements. Tried them all in various combinations. Nothing. Helped. It doesn't matter which one I use, it's still the same game of whichever fleet gets the best RNG.
Overall I think the new ship formula fails. Longer matches. Ability materials that don't seem to help you in the least. The geo trio is being promoted right now, tried that. It gets crushed by the same old meta.
I would like this whole thing rolled back. It's not a good update.
I truly feel like I took $100 and flushed it down the toilet. I'm utterly sickened by this entire update and how much easier it is to lose now. People like me who invested a ton in pilots and materials shouldn't be struggling more than ever. It's just bad and I hope they make some MAJOR improvements to it very soon. If it taught me anything is that I'm a fool for dropping any type of cash on this and expecting positive results.
Yeah I expected the top of my ship shard to have done the same since it's pretty competitive.
Most didn't, and I'm still doing average to bad in fleet. haha gotta love it. I'm not happy with my purchase.
Moderator exhaustion.
I guess I kind of panicked, so I bought both of those expensive packs with omegas and hardware materials.
I'm now losing to teams that haven't even upgraded. My rank is dropping just as much or more than before. So, what did that $100 get me?
Hardware abilities are pretty much worthless. Some look good on paper, but once they're used, ok, it's over. It's not like a normal ability that carries throughout the match and can be reused. I fully upgraded 3 reinforcements. Tried them all in various combinations. Nothing. Helped. It doesn't matter which one I use, it's still the same game of whichever fleet gets the best RNG.
Overall I think the new ship formula fails. Longer matches. Ability materials that don't seem to help you in the least. The geo trio is being promoted right now, tried that. It gets crushed by the same old meta.
I would like this whole thing rolled back. It's not a good update.