Get this 100% Turnmeter coinflip mechanic out of this game!

Replies

  • Hence contingencies.
  • leef
    13052 posts Member
    Hence contingencies.

    ?
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Fanatic
    242 posts Member
    It's a flawed, lazy, and plain bad mechanic. Any excuse to not change it shows laziness on their part because THEY mentioned it so they knew it was flawed.

    No, you are simply a person who prefers an entirely strategic only game, like chess.

    We can probably agree no one wants to play a pure random, no strategy game: Candy Land.

    Some people though want a partially strategic, highly random game: Risk

    Some people want a highly strategic, partially random game: Pick just about any modern board or card game, Imhotep, Dominion, Alchemists, Smash-Up, Suburbia, etc.

    Some people want a purely strategic, no random game: Chess, checkers

    I would venture that most people prefer the highly strategic, partially random - which is actually what the current system provides. Strategy on which mods to give to which toons, and which targets to focus down or use specific abilities on. Some randomness with amount of damage done, crits, and the multiple toons at 100% TM.
  • No. Dont't make assumptions. Samuel L has some great quotes about assuming and assumptions. I prefer some randomness. Balance of probability.

    I've played huge PvP MMOs. I play D&D. I play chess and Stratego. Checkers. League of Legends. Etc etc etc.

    Randomness that negates everything else is not a good mechanic. Why not play arena with a completely random squad. Be an interesting mechanic for a tournament but no fun for the person who gets Ugnaught lead, farm boy Luke, Nightsisters zombie, CUP, and mob enforcer vs someone who randomly draws CLs, Nest, Thrawn, Raid Han, and Nihilus. That's what it's like to lose because of it... and to win that way is hollow.
  • leef
    13052 posts Member
    but the randomness in turn order when multiple toons hit 100% TM at the same time doesn't negate everything else, that's just plain false.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Have to agree with leef. Who goes first definitely does not determine all. If it did then every toon would be viable. Thats clearly not the case. Sometimes its actually better when your toon doesnt go first as you can react instantly to a change.
  • TVF
    17340 posts Member
    Candy Land is fine but give me Chutes and Ladders. You just have to use the right strategy and pay a little cash so you can be sure to miss the chutes.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Coinflip is bad, instead you can simply do the following:

    TM should be capped at 99% and characters can only reach 100% during their own turn. When a character swaps TM, like Thrawn, they should have the ability to give 100%. Vader in his turn should be able to reach 100% , same for Tarkin, CLS to himself, ect.

    All other characters will have a priority based on how they reach 99%. If they reach it one at a time they get to go, if more than 1 characters reach it at the same time then whoever had the most TM prior to hitting 99% will get to go next.

    If they had the same TM, then and only then they get to flip a coin. I seriously don't see anything wrong or unfair with this system and it solves all the problems. If you are going to protest this please give me a specific example.
  • Coinflip is bad, instead you can simply do the following:

    TM should be capped at 99% and characters can only reach 100% during their own turn. When a character swaps TM, like Thrawn, they should have the ability to give 100%. Vader in his turn should be able to reach 100% , same for Tarkin, CLS to himself, ect.

    All other characters will have a priority based on how they reach 99%. If they reach it one at a time they get to go, if more than 1 characters reach it at the same time then whoever had the most TM prior to hitting 99% will get to go next.

    If they had the same TM, then and only then they get to flip a coin. I seriously don't see anything wrong or unfair with this system and it solves all the problems. If you are going to protest this please give me a specific example.

    So what if you have 2 toons who get to 99% tm at the same time. However one was significantly faster than the other and would have reached 100%tm just before the other but started on less tm on the previous turn. Would you say that's fair because the post has been brought down to 99% that a turn has now gone to the other toon.

    I personally donr have a solution, Im in agreement that any 'solution' has problems, especially when you have hundreds of people waiting to analyse to the nth degree.
  • Drepd
    114 posts Member
    cg dug themselves into a hole with all these massive tm kits. they are in too deep to just change the mechanics.
  • Sacull_Kinslayer
    797 posts Member
    edited June 2018
    leef wrote: »
    but the randomness in turn order when multiple toons hit 100% TM at the same time doesn't negate everything else, that's just plain false.

    Snarky comment erased...

    The randomness of the coinflip negates everything that put all the other toons there first. You really think if a toon gets 100% AFTER multiple of your toons already have gotten 100% it should go before all yours? No it shouldn't. That randomness in that instance negates everything that you did to get your toons to 100% first... Leader, speed, mods, specific abilities, etc. Everything.
  • YaeVizsla
    3177 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    I think any solution needs to have a caveat for situations like this. Any toon that generates 100% TM on their turn should go before anyone else that is in a situation to move (whatever that may be). That's the whole point of having moved that do that, whether one death blow, or hitting enough debuffs or any other reason.
    If we go with generating 100% turn meter on your turn means you go first, then I can solo P1 STR with Nihilus almost never getting a move.
    Still not a he.
  • leef
    13052 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    but the randomness in turn order when multiple toons hit 100% TM at the same time doesn't negate everything else, that's just plain false.

    Snarky comment erased...

    The randomness of the coinflip negates everything that put all the other toons there first. You really think if a toon gets 100% AFTER multiple of your toons already have gotten 100% it should go before all yours? No it shouldn't. That randomness in that instance negates everything that you did to get your toons to 100% first... Leader, speed, mods, specific abilities, etc. Everything.

    No it doesn't, as a matter of fact it's usually a leadership ability that results in multiple toons having 100% TM at the same time in the first place. Not to mention that there are ways to avoid it from happening alltoghether, so it definately does not negate everything else.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • I don't care that they're at 100%. They should go in order that they reached 100%. The 4th toon that reached 100 shouldn't go before all the toons that got there first. The only exception should be Thrawn tm swap (the targeted toon should go next), and toons that give 100% after a specific things happens, or says they get another turn. If multiple toons reach at the same moment then speed should be the determined factor. Those are all things that can be considered and factored. And makes more obvious sense than a coin flip.
  • Ultimately... CG will do whatever they want. Just look at the STR rewards thread. Or EA's previous games...
  • Ultra
    4245 posts Member
    I don't care that they're at 100%. They should go in order that they reached 100%. The 4th toon that reached 100 shouldn't go before all the toons that got there first. The only exception should be Thrawn tm swap (the targeted toon should go next), and toons that give 100% after a specific things happens, or says they get another turn. If multiple toons reach at the same moment then speed should be the determined factor. Those are all things that can be considered and factored. And makes more obvious sense than a coin flip.
    Two Raid Hans with same speed

    who goes first without settling on a coin flip?

  • Coinflip is bad, instead you can simply do the following:

    TM should be capped at 99% and characters can only reach 100% during their own turn. When a character swaps TM, like Thrawn, they should have the ability to give 100%. Vader in his turn should be able to reach 100% , same for Tarkin, CLS to himself, ect.

    All other characters will have a priority based on how they reach 99%. If they reach it one at a time they get to go, if more than 1 characters reach it at the same time then whoever had the most TM prior to hitting 99% will get to go next.

    If they had the same TM, then and only then they get to flip a coin. I seriously don't see anything wrong or unfair with this system and it solves all the problems. If you are going to protest this please give me a specific example.

    So what if you have 2 toons who get to 99% tm at the same time. However one was significantly faster than the other and would have reached 100%tm just before the other but started on less tm on the previous turn. Would you say that's fair because the post has been brought down to 99% that a turn has now gone to the other toon.

    I personally donr have a solution, Im in agreement that any 'solution' has problems, especially when you have hundreds of people waiting to analyse to the nth degree.

    Uhh yeah so if you have character X with 75% TM and character Y with 80% and they both reach 99% at the same time, then the one who had 80% will go before the 75%
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I think any solution needs to have a caveat for situations like this. Any toon that generates 100% TM on their turn should go before anyone else that is in a situation to move (whatever that may be). That's the whole point of having moved that do that, whether one death blow, or hitting enough debuffs or any other reason.
    If we go with generating 100% turn meter on your turn means you go first, then I can solo P1 STR with Nihilus almost never getting a move.

    How?
  • Ultra wrote: »
    I don't care that they're at 100%. They should go in order that they reached 100%. The 4th toon that reached 100 shouldn't go before all the toons that got there first. The only exception should be Thrawn tm swap (the targeted toon should go next), and toons that give 100% after a specific things happens, or says they get another turn. If multiple toons reach at the same moment then speed should be the determined factor. Those are all things that can be considered and factored. And makes more obvious sense than a coin flip.
    Two Raid Hans with same speed

    who goes first without settling on a coin flip?

    But nobody cares about raid Han, the problem isn't raid Han, you're using an off topic example with which nobody has a problem with to prove that his logic is wrong
  • YaeVizsla
    3177 posts Member
    How?
    Accepting the "if you gain 100% turn meter on your turn, go immediately" version?

    Trawn lead. Magmatrooper. Deathtrooper.

    Kill someone. Deathmark Nihilus. Keep using Magmatrooper's basic.

    Every time Magmatrooper attacks is a double tap, triggering Nihilus' Defense Down effect, which means Magmatrooper either resists or suffers a debuff twice. This triggers Magmatrooper's unique once and Thrawn's lead twice, for +110% turn meter. Therefore Magmatrooper goes immediately, hits Nihilus with his basic again, and loops infinitely until Nihilus dies, never able to get a turn again because Magmatrooper keeps generating 100% TM. Also, Deathmark never expires because Nihilus never goes, so you keep getting that Deathmark damage.
    Still not a he.
  • leef
    13052 posts Member
    I don't care that they're at 100%. They should go in order that they reached 100%. The 4th toon that reached 100 shouldn't go before all the toons that got there first. The only exception should be Thrawn tm swap (the targeted toon should go next), and toons that give 100% after a specific things happens, or says they get another turn. If multiple toons reach at the same moment then speed should be the determined factor. Those are all things that can be considered and factored. And makes more obvious sense than a coin flip.

    I don't know man, i don't think it makes more sense to let speed be the determining factor when multiple toons have 100% TM at the same time. They're already at 100% TM, speed doesn't play a role anymore.
    Example:
    Boba(L) 200speed / 5%TM, rex 201 speed /100%TM, Jyn 202 speed / 1% TM vs Baze malbus 199 speed / 99% TM and vader 198 speed / 50% TM. The boba team has 14 debuffs total from vader.
    Rex' turn, he uses squad decipline. That results in boba, Jyn, rex and baze having 100% TM. Due to Jyn, Rex and boba being faster, they'll all go before baze. Does that make more sense than just random?
    The faster toon going first 100% of the time might not be that desirable for the majority of the playerbase. I'm willling to wager even for some that want a sollution for this "horrible mechanic". Please note i'm not saying you're one of these players. You might be, i don't know, it's besides the point anyway.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Adding to all the points being said previously, changing such a huge part of the game mechanics, especially considering the number of TM manipulation Abilities, Leader Abilities and Unique Abilities would greatly damage the current game balance, both in PvP and in PvE, since all the character kits and PvE content has been made in accordance with the current game mechanics

    I'd like to also add I'm willing to bet this resurfaced because of the Sith meta. Metas come and go, so will this one. Also, there are tons of counters to the current meta that can have a nearly 100% winrate on offense, no matter the RNG involved, including the 100% TM ties one. Changing one of the mechanics in all areas of the game just to either make a certain meta team or the counters to it significantly better at a point in time is just completely ridiculous in my opinion, especially since, as I said, metas come and go.
  • leef wrote: »
    I don't care that they're at 100%. They should go in order that they reached 100%. The 4th toon that reached 100 shouldn't go before all the toons that got there first. The only exception should be Thrawn tm swap (the targeted toon should go next), and toons that give 100% after a specific things happens, or says they get another turn. If multiple toons reach at the same moment then speed should be the determined factor. Those are all things that can be considered and factored. And makes more obvious sense than a coin flip.

    I don't know man, i don't think it makes more sense to let speed be the determining factor when multiple toons have 100% TM at the same time. They're already at 100% TM, speed doesn't play a role anymore.
    Example:
    Boba(L) 200speed / 5%TM, rex 201 speed /100%TM, Jyn 202 speed / 1% TM vs Baze malbus 199 speed / 99% TM and vader 198 speed / 50% TM. The boba team has 14 debuffs total from vader.
    Rex' turn, he uses squad decipline. That results in boba, Jyn, rex and baze having 100% TM. Due to Jyn, Rex and boba being faster, they'll all go before baze. Does that make more sense than just random?
    The faster toon going first 100% of the time might not be that desirable for the majority of the playerbase. I'm willling to wager even for some that want a sollution for this "horrible mechanic". Please note i'm not saying you're one of these players. You might be, i don't know, it's besides the point anyway.

    But some logic to everyone having 100% speed would be preferable, no? Speed kind of just makes sense. I'm not 100% sure I'd want that, you know, but some logic in determining how the 100% TM stack is resolved just makes sense.
    D&D has house rules galore - but the preferred method of determine two creatures getting the same number in turn order is dexterity - if they have the same dex, only then is there a roll-off (a coin toss, at that point)
    Granted, we're just typing for the sake of it - none of this matters as CG is clearly just gonna do as baby-boo CG gonna do.
    #AcolyteShootsTwice
  • My only real issue is the thrawn tm swap ability becoming random. When i use that ability its usually because i want x character to take their turn before thrawn not because i want thrawn to sometimes randomly go twice.
  • This thread will go in circle indefinitely since everyone is saying the same thing : they can’t touch it without changing the kits of almost every single toon out there.
    Which is not going to happen.

    It doesn’t matter which solution is « better » (opinion), we’re stuck with this one until the game is dead.

    Plus the arguments used are completely off since they are all based on actual character’s kits which we already said would have to be changed if the tm rule is changed. « But vader » « But Rex » « But x or y » is meaningless.
    If it comes to a debate « rng is entertaining » vs « rng is frustrating », i guess this one is as old as games themselves :smile:
  • IC3M4N
    267 posts Member
    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    How?
    Accepting the "if you gain 100% turn meter on your turn, go immediately" version?...[answer]...mic drop.

    well played sir
  • They wouldn't have to change kits. Just do what they accidentally said they were going to do. Would have been the best update ever
  • A possible fix is to have a coin flip the first time only then have it alternate between teams with the fastest character on a team going first. This still allows some randomness and doesn't give an excessive advantage to amazing mods but still allows for more strategic play and team building.

    Thrawn and raid Han should supersed full tm.
  • Sepir
    38 posts Member
    No comments on arena, but I think Thrawn's special should be fixed so the toon selected goes next. My example was in P3 of STR. Thrawn swap's TM with Death Trooper so I can apply Deathmark at the beginning of the topple and then immediately fracture. As DT had 100% TM Thrawn went again which ruined that plan.
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