Correct he doesnt shoot first, but he does get his bonus turn, as described by his ability.
The ability name says “Shoots first” and it says “...bonus turn at the start...”. The name and the “at the start” implies he’s first. In this case he doesn’t shoot first nor when he goes is it “at the start”. One can argue against WAI quite easily in this case.
He gets the bonus turn at the beginning of the match. A turn in this game is denoted by 100% TM. The name is a title and not a description of how the ability will work, that's what the description is for.
As always when multiple toons have 100% TM, there is no guarantee who will go first, although I suspect when event toons have this coded they will go before our side, but still in an order determined by RNG.
The wording always was and still is ambiguous. The text says Han 'takes a bonus turn'. This wording implies that he actually also makes his move. The actual implementation may be WAI (and it works well - no protests there), but it does not comply with the wording in the ability description and it never did.
In the case of Zaul lead, the wording is unambiguous. The text states that certain characters 'gain 20% Turn Meter' at the start of each encounter. That's a precise wording.
Similarly, the wording of the description of GMY's Masterstroke is, that he 'gains an immediate bonus turn'. Does this mean that he immediately gains 100% turn meter? What would be the difference of several other characters that gain 100% turn meter (B2, JKA, Biggs, etc.)? If yes, why isn't it simply worded like those characters - that GMY gains 100% TM? Or does it mean that GMY immediately makes his move with no other characters able to move before that immediate bonus turn? In that case: why so similar wordings for two so different behaviours (Han 'takes a bonus turn', GMY 'gains an immediate turn')? And Thrawn's grand Admirel's Command still only states, that it's a Turn Meter swap. It doesn't state, that the target immediately takes a turn.
Why all those confusing wordings? Why not be consistent and use the same wording for the same behaviour and use a clearly distinct wording for different behaviour?
CG really should change the text of Han's 'Shoot first' ability to make it clear, that he gains 100% Turn Meter instead of the ambiguous 'takes a bonus turn'.
Yes, Kyno, I've read your comments about this in previous discussions as well. 'Taking a turn' is defined by CG as receiving 100% turn meter. I know. However, it doesn't change the fact, that the ability description doesn't state that clearly. Changing the text would take a couple of minutes, with a few more minutes added for planning, testing and documentation - but it would save a lot of confusion for players.
Instead of repeating your comments, that Han is intended to simply receive 100% TM (which most players already know) why not move to the next step in the discussion and comment on the ambiguous wording of the ability description and the general inconsistency in ability descriptions? That would be helpfull for all of us.
Because if they intended for him to take the first action they could have worded it that way.
Thrawns description did not match the action that would happen. It was his turn and he is stated to seal that turn to another toon. They changed it to match the wording.
Are you even aware of how wrong you are?
Until recently, Thrawn's TM swap used to work EXACTLY as described in the ability description. The TM was swapped and from there on everything else worked as usual with coin flips in case of ties and all. The mismatch ocvured when they changed the behaviour but not the description of his ability.
And Han's behaviour does NOT match the description. His current behaviour. His current description. If the description was, that he would gain 100% TM THEN it would match.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
Yes I did. GMY has a description that allows him to avoid the coin toss.
Han has no such wording, and if he is intended to take the first action and not be subject to any other mechanics that could be present at the start if a battle, then they should change the description to say that.
If multiple toons are trying to take their turn as they are all 100% tm they are subject to the coin toss.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
Either way I would still imagine that events like this will still lock the player out from that and allow the opponent with loaded tm to go first.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
Anecdotally, I’ve had GMY not get his 2nd turn right away in the ground assault event a couple of times...
I have also experienced the same with GMY. Not exactly sure in which game mode(s), but I've also seen this. It's very-very-very extremely rare, but it does happen. I took notice of this, because my strategy is heavily based on this ability (especially in Ground Assault). And no, he had no daze, and yes, there were other Jedi on the battlefield.
I was thinking more after he gets beaten, sort of sits down and unwraps a burger. Kind of a ‘what a workout’ vibe. Extra bonus: CG adds a sound effect of him going ‘nom nom nom’ as he eats.
I think the issue here is that we are arguing over the definition of the term ‘bonus turn’. And I would argue that it is most likely that there are different descriptions for different toons principally because the aggregate of the character descriptions do not somehow constitute some kind of legal document that has its own appendix with every term defined. Since each of these characters have come out at different times, the devs have chosen to describe the mechanics as they felt, in the moment.
Possibly scuba could weigh in on this one. He seems to have access to the coding. If anything would provide a precise definiton - that would be it.
Also, I’m still pretty sure in the last ground war assault battle, that I had cases where B2s managed to sneak in between GMY’s turns. I’m still guessing that the same mechanic is being used in all cases for simplicity.
Last thought: isn’t the whole ‘Han shoots first’ thing more of fan blowback? Isn’t the official Lucasfilm stance (and thus Disney & CG) that Greedo shout first???
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....
Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....
Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...
I'm not saying it shouldn't, but if they intend to do that they need to put that in the description just like they did for GMY.
Any toon entering the encounter with 100% TM, should get their turn first, it's not just buffs and other things. This is why they would need to make it more specific of the intent is for him to always go first unless its against another Han.
It's not lazy, its smart, why reinvent the wheel, but if this was the intention then they should make it so and change the description to match.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....
Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...
I'm not saying it shouldn't, but if they intend to do that they need to put that in the description just like they did for GMY.
Any toon entering the encounter with 100% TM, should get their turn first, it's not just buffs and other things. This is why they would need to make it more specific of the intent is for him to always go first unless its against another Han.
It's not lazy, its smart, why reinvent the wheel, but if this was the intention then they should make it so and change the description to match.
So where else.in the game does han not shoot first other than in these jacked up events? Are you really trying to say han was never intended to truly shoot first?
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
They have a way to bypass the coin flip though as seen with the change made to thrawn. If they worded it as gains 100% tm at the start of the encounter, it would make it clear that they don't intend him to bypass the coin flip.
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Thrawn and Yoda's kits both prove this point incorrect.
Those kits have specific wording to do as such. Hans kit does not.
Kyno, brother, they clearly have a way to make him go first.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
Yes I did. GMY has a description that allows him to avoid the coin toss.
GMY might have the wording but that also means his mechanics are broken, as he doesn’t always take the next turn, as evident in some of these special events.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
Yes I did. GMY has a description that allows him to avoid the coin toss.
If taking a bonus turn means gaining 100% TM, then gaining an immediate bonus turn would indicate gaining 100% turn meter immediately. And you don't see any inconsistency here, now that GMY avoids the coin toss and performs his actions with no interference from anything, while Han doesn't? The description is way off (the description only. The behaviour is fine). It's inconsistent. It always was. It still is.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....
Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...
I'm not saying it shouldn't, but if they intend to do that they need to put that in the description just like they did for GMY.
Any toon entering the encounter with 100% TM, should get their turn first, it's not just buffs and other things. This is why they would need to make it more specific of the intent is for him to always go first unless its against another Han.
It's not lazy, its smart, why reinvent the wheel, but if this was the intention then they should make it so and change the description to match.
So where else.in the game does han not shoot first other than in these jacked up events? Are you really trying to say han was never intended to truly shoot first?
TW f.ex. if the opponent already had full TM from a previous match.
When moving to a new wave if other team members than Han has 100% TM already.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....
Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...
I'm not saying it shouldn't, but if they intend to do that they need to put that in the description just like they did for GMY.
Only.... they didn't. GMY's description translates into : GMY gains an immediate 100% turn meter meter.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....
Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...
I'm not saying it shouldn't, but if they intend to do that they need to put that in the description just like they did for GMY.
Any toon entering the encounter with 100% TM, should get their turn first, it's not just buffs and other things. This is why they would need to make it more specific of the intent is for him to always go first unless its against another Han.
It's not lazy, its smart, why reinvent the wheel, but if this was the intention then they should make it so and change the description to match.
So where else.in the game does han not shoot first other than in these jacked up events? Are you really trying to say han was never intended to truly shoot first?
TW f.ex. if the opponent already had full TM from a previous match.
When moving to a new wave if other team members than Han has 100% TM already.
That han against han though..... Completely understandable....
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
They have a way to bypass the coin flip though as seen with the change made to thrawn. If they worded it as gains 100% tm at the start of the encounter, it would make it clear that they don't intend him to bypass the coin flip.
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Thrawn and Yoda's kits both prove this point incorrect.
Those kits have specific wording to do as such. Hans kit does not.
Kyno, brother, they clearly have a way to make him go first.
I never said they didn't. if they do thats great, but it would require a description change. because right now he is WAD.
also as i said, this would probably still not have any effect with the way events are programmed and he would still not go first. or maybe they leave it this way so they can have opponents in events like this go first. who knows.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....
Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...
It's not lazy, its smart, why reinvent the wheel, but if this was the intention then they should make it so and change the description to match.
They DID reinvent the wheel. First they call it 'gains 100% turn meter' ( Biggs, JKA, B2 and probably others). After the reinvention they called it 'takes a bonus turn', when in fact it's still the same old behaviour. The old version was precise and describe exactly what happens. The all new and shiny version is inaccurate and ambiguous.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....
Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...
It's not lazy, its smart, why reinvent the wheel, but if this was the intention then they should make it so and change the description to match.
They DID reinvent the wheel. First they call it 'gains 100% turn meter' ( Biggs, JKA, B2 and probably others). After the reinvention they called it 'takes a bonus turn', when in fact it's still the same old behaviour. The old version was precise and describe exactly what happens. The all new and shiny version is inaccurate and ambiguous.
different description, same mechanic. that is not reinventing the wheel, thats calling it a tire.
he was talking about the programming not the description.
Sacrilege! There are certain things in life you should be able to count on. The sun always rises in the East. The Pope is always Catholic. Matter always proceeds from order to disorder. The swallows always return to Capistrano. And, Han always shoots first!
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Thrawn and Yoda's kits both prove this point incorrect.
Those kits have specific wording to do as such. Hans kit does not.
Thrawns kit says swap turn meter. Nothing about automatic next turn. That is only in the game update that updated the command. By your logic, it should be up to a coin toss as much as han.
And nihileus eats part of the hamburger whenever he steals protection.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
1. Assists and counters. They arn’t quite “turns” but they are actions.
2. It doesn’t. All others can happen simutaniusly, however han’s bonus action can’t happen at the same time as other bonus actions.
I assume, when he was added to the game, (not a day 1 player), he was the only start of encounter turn, so he would only coin flip against other raid hans.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....
Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...
It's not lazy, its smart, why reinvent the wheel, but if this was the intention then they should make it so and change the description to match.
They DID reinvent the wheel. First they call it 'gains 100% turn meter' ( Biggs, JKA, B2 and probably others). After the reinvention they called it 'takes a bonus turn', when in fact it's still the same old behaviour. The old version was precise and describe exactly what happens. The all new and shiny version is inaccurate and ambiguous.
different description, same mechanic. that is not reinventing the wheel, thats calling it a tire.
he was talking about the programming not the description.
Still, they reinvented the wheel. The wheel being the description. They Invented a new description for the exact same thing, where they could — and should — have just kept using the wording they already had.
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
100% agree.
it doesnt' state he gets the first action. it only states he gets a bonus turn, which is 100% TM. they should word it differently if they have the intent of making him take the first action. much like how they changed GMY description.
He gets a bonus turn at the START. Not the after everyone else goes. Also,
And yet thrawn worked incorrectly for a very long time. They state" at the start of the encounter", im sorry if that doesnt mean go first , then it is misleading, since the encounter already started ie enemy going first , thats pretty much telling you when it should occur. Imo
I love this game so its not like its a make or break issue , but i would not mind some clarity from cg on this.
Is the start of the encounter the 4th turn?
Finally, i want to see nihileus eating a cheeseburger
Multiple things happen at the start of the encounter, where is it stated that Han is the first to go at the start of the encounter. It's not stated that way, which is why I am just saying I think its WAD. I would love for it to be different and only coin toss with another Han, but they would have to explain the intent in some way different than the current description.
Now I cant get it out of my head, he turns around in the opening scene for the Sith raid, and takes an aggressive bite of a hamburger, throws it down and points his saber at you.
I think they need to address this either way. Even if it is just to change the description. If the bonus turn is just 100% tm they should just change it to say that.
Agreed, but there is no other way in game to take a turn, so bonus turn and 100% are 6 of one, half dozen of the other.
Thrawn and Yoda's kits both prove this point incorrect.
Those kits have specific wording to do as such. Hans kit does not.
Thrawns kit says swap turn meter. Nothing about automatic next turn. That is only in the game update that updated the command. By your logic, it should be up to a coin toss as much as han.
Thank you for supporting my point regarding Thrawn. However, I doubt the message will sink in on the receiving end. The receiver appears to be immune to facts.
@Kyno do you still need to defend this absurd thing? Description clearly states that bonus turn so it can be simply assumed that without any tm filling activity han should attack with his basic. If you say that this must be done with tm mechanic han does not get %100 tm but %100+ tm calculated by his speed rate. Then when he shots he uses 100 of it and rest will stay on the blue bar. Actually its nothing to worry about that much event can be done even he does not shot first but defending CG this much makes you funny and unreliable.
And also conveniently ignores the remarks about GMY's special ability fail.
If what was reported regarding GMY is a bug and not intended behaviour, then that's a different situation. However, if it's intended, that GMY may not always performs his actions immediately after using his special, then we have the same situation - inconsistency between description and behaviour, and also flaws in Kyno's reasoning.
I assume, when he was added to the game, (not a day 1 player), he was the only start of encounter turn, so he would only coin flip against other raid hans.
True. He was the only one with such an ability. The next start of encounter/battle behaviour introduced was the pre-taunt of shoretrooper. However, it may still have been the case back then, that there could be turn meter ties, f.ex. when moving to a new wave in a battle or to a new node in GW with Rex and Han on the same team.
Replies
Are you even aware of how wrong you are?
Until recently, Thrawn's TM swap used to work EXACTLY as described in the ability description. The TM was swapped and from there on everything else worked as usual with coin flips in case of ties and all. The mismatch ocvured when they changed the behaviour but not the description of his ability.
And Han's behaviour does NOT match the description. His current behaviour. His current description. If the description was, that he would gain 100% TM THEN it would match.
Wake up, Kyno. Have a cup of coffee on the house.
Gaining a bonus turn is defined as gaining 100% TM according to you. So, when B2, JKA, Biggs etc. gain 100% TM through their abilities, why is a different wording used? Why doesn't their description say that they gain a bonus turn? It's inconsistent. Similar behaviour should be described with similar wording. Using a different wording suggests a different behaviour.
I'm not saying, that Han behaves wrong. I'm saying, he doesn't behave as described.
On a side note:
You never answered my question about GMY. When he takes an immediate bonus turn, does he simply immediately gain 100% TM? Or is he guaranteed to always perform the next action even if another toon also has 100% TM? I'm curious.
Yes I did. GMY has a description that allows him to avoid the coin toss.
Han has no such wording, and if he is intended to take the first action and not be subject to any other mechanics that could be present at the start if a battle, then they should change the description to say that.
If multiple toons are trying to take their turn as they are all 100% tm they are subject to the coin toss.
I see nothing in his description that says he should go before someone else that is at 100% TM at the start of the encounter. But we can agree to disagree and maybe they will chnage this to be more clear.
Either way I would still imagine that events like this will still lock the player out from that and allow the opponent with loaded tm to go first.
1- Its a BONUS turn that is irrespective of even his own turn meter according to the wording, the term "turn meter" is not even present in the description whatsoever.
2- Said bonus turn is to take place at the start of the encounter.... Once another toon takes a turn it is, by definition, no longer the start of the encounter.....
If the intention was for him to get 100% turn meter at the start, then they should have written it that way.... Something along the lines of "At the start of the encounter, Han gains 100% turn meter, ignores taunt and his first shot inflicts a one turn stun that can't be resisted"
It's not called "shoots first" for nothing.... I think you are likely correct in regards to this being part of the typically skewed event mechanics....
@Kyno It might be in the description, but may not be entirely true.
I have also experienced the same with GMY. Not exactly sure in which game mode(s), but I've also seen this. It's very-very-very extremely rare, but it does happen. I took notice of this, because my strategy is heavily based on this ability (especially in Ground Assault). And no, he had no daze, and yes, there were other Jedi on the battlefield.
I think the issue here is that we are arguing over the definition of the term ‘bonus turn’. And I would argue that it is most likely that there are different descriptions for different toons principally because the aggregate of the character descriptions do not somehow constitute some kind of legal document that has its own appendix with every term defined. Since each of these characters have come out at different times, the devs have chosen to describe the mechanics as they felt, in the moment.
Possibly scuba could weigh in on this one. He seems to have access to the coding. If anything would provide a precise definiton - that would be it.
Also, I’m still pretty sure in the last ground war assault battle, that I had cases where B2s managed to sneak in between GMY’s turns. I’m still guessing that the same mechanic is being used in all cases for simplicity.
Last thought: isn’t the whole ‘Han shoots first’ thing more of fan blowback? Isn’t the official Lucasfilm stance (and thus Disney & CG) that Greedo shout first???
1- please show me him taking his turn without 100% TM. Also acceptable, any one in any game mode taking a turn without 100% TM. It doesnt exist, because a turn is initiated by 100% TM, regardless of the situation.
2- there are many actions that happen "at the start of an encounter", why should Hans override any others?
If the intention was for him to take the first action or use his alibi before anyone else they should have and could have worded it that way. But they didnt. If they have that intention they should reword it to state that intention, much like how they reworded GMY, and made Thrawns actions match his specific description.
The title is not the description nor is it used in the description. If it was, he may still not shoot first in a han v han team. ( FYI, the universe will implode, trying to figure out which Han shot first.)
His actions should override the others because the start of the battle only occurs once.... sure, other abilities also come into effect at the start, but none of them are damage dealers like shoots first.....
Han getting 100% TM at the start is not proof of anything but lazy programming that doesn't match the description of the ability..... Let's remember that han is an old school toon..... He just likely has never been updated.... It's very likely that just giving him 100% to worked back in the day..... It doesn't now...
I'm not saying it shouldn't, but if they intend to do that they need to put that in the description just like they did for GMY.
Any toon entering the encounter with 100% TM, should get their turn first, it's not just buffs and other things. This is why they would need to make it more specific of the intent is for him to always go first unless its against another Han.
It's not lazy, its smart, why reinvent the wheel, but if this was the intention then they should make it so and change the description to match.
So where else.in the game does han not shoot first other than in these jacked up events? Are you really trying to say han was never intended to truly shoot first?
Kyno, brother, they clearly have a way to make him go first.
GMY might have the wording but that also means his mechanics are broken, as he doesn’t always take the next turn, as evident in some of these special events.
If taking a bonus turn means gaining 100% TM, then gaining an immediate bonus turn would indicate gaining 100% turn meter immediately. And you don't see any inconsistency here, now that GMY avoids the coin toss and performs his actions with no interference from anything, while Han doesn't? The description is way off (the description only. The behaviour is fine). It's inconsistent. It always was. It still is.
TW f.ex. if the opponent already had full TM from a previous match.
When moving to a new wave if other team members than Han has 100% TM already.
Only.... they didn't. GMY's description translates into : GMY gains an immediate 100% turn meter meter.
That han against han though..... Completely understandable....
I never said they didn't. if they do thats great, but it would require a description change. because right now he is WAD.
also as i said, this would probably still not have any effect with the way events are programmed and he would still not go first. or maybe they leave it this way so they can have opponents in events like this go first. who knows.
They DID reinvent the wheel. First they call it 'gains 100% turn meter' ( Biggs, JKA, B2 and probably others). After the reinvention they called it 'takes a bonus turn', when in fact it's still the same old behaviour. The old version was precise and describe exactly what happens. The all new and shiny version is inaccurate and ambiguous.
different description, same mechanic. that is not reinventing the wheel, thats calling it a tire.
he was talking about the programming not the description.
Thrawns kit says swap turn meter. Nothing about automatic next turn. That is only in the game update that updated the command. By your logic, it should be up to a coin toss as much as han.
And nihileus eats part of the hamburger whenever he steals protection.
1. Assists and counters. They arn’t quite “turns” but they are actions.
2. It doesn’t. All others can happen simutaniusly, however han’s bonus action can’t happen at the same time as other bonus actions.
I assume, when he was added to the game, (not a day 1 player), he was the only start of encounter turn, so he would only coin flip against other raid hans.
Still, they reinvented the wheel. The wheel being the description. They Invented a new description for the exact same thing, where they could — and should — have just kept using the wording they already had.
Thank you for supporting my point regarding Thrawn. However, I doubt the message will sink in on the receiving end. The receiver appears to be immune to facts.
And also conveniently ignores the remarks about GMY's special ability fail.
If what was reported regarding GMY is a bug and not intended behaviour, then that's a different situation. However, if it's intended, that GMY may not always performs his actions immediately after using his special, then we have the same situation - inconsistency between description and behaviour, and also flaws in Kyno's reasoning.
True. He was the only one with such an ability. The next start of encounter/battle behaviour introduced was the pre-taunt of shoretrooper. However, it may still have been the case back then, that there could be turn meter ties, f.ex. when moving to a new wave in a battle or to a new node in GW with Rex and Han on the same team.