The Last Jedi

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  • Boo
    3270 posts Member
    Han's ridiculous manuever to lightspeed through the shield is lorebreaking, even in the new canon. Hyperdrives do not work that close to a planetary gravity well. The Imperial interdictor cruiser generates a gravity well which both prevents a hyperdrive from engaging and will interrupt an operating hyperdrive, pulling ships out of hyperspace. The interdictor has been used in SW Rebels and the Alliances novel (new canon). The very existence of the interdictor is proof positive that SW hyperdrives cannot operate close to a large gravitational mass.

    Attempting to fly in through the shield like that is impossible because the ship would drop out of hyperspace well before reaching the shield.

    Rogue 1 also buggered up this concept when Vader's ISD jumped into the battle right outside the Scarif shield when the Rebels were escaping. TLJ buggered it again when the FO fleet arrived above Dqar close enough to be seen with the naked eye in full daylight (eye roll, but it was a neat shot so whatever).

    Point is, the people writing these scripts don't care about lore, just paychecks ... which is why I don't care to see any more films. The EU novels are where to find the good SW stories.

    Thanks for this! Another reason as to why its lore breaking - not only from a combat perspective but also regarding the rules of hyperspace travel in regard to gravity wells.

    Its not known exactly how close Vader's ISD was to Scarif to make that connection, I'd also argue in favoutr of TLJ in regard to the FO fleet at the beginning - but clearly trying to get as close to a planet's surface as Han did to bypass the shield is very clear and against the already rules set within the SW universe to make this maneuver lore breaking.

    Thanks again @EventineElessedil very informative!
  • Boo
    3270 posts Member
    @EventineElessedil

    Didn't Solo also use the Falcon's hyperdrive to escape the gravity wells during the Kessel Run in Solo? I only saw that terrible movie once and don't care to see it again to make sure, but I believe he did this here as well.

    If so, another example of this break in the lore as clearly the gravity well here was preventing the Falcon from escaping and thus clearly had an effect on the ship and its ability to even use lightspeed as well.
  • Boo wrote: »
    @EventineElessedil

    Didn't Solo also use the Falcon's hyperdrive to escape the gravity wells during the Kessel Run in Solo? I only saw that terrible movie once and don't care to see it again to make sure, but I believe he did this here as well.

    If so, another example of this break in the lore as clearly the gravity well here was preventing the Falcon from escaping and thus clearly had an effect on the ship and its ability to even use lightspeed as well.

    I have not yet seen Solo @Boo but hope to sometime soon. The Kessel Run has always confused me, even after reading the old "legends" Han Solo trilogy. SW has always had it's own magic physics and astronomical laws, so I file the Kessel Run in the area of "just accept it." But I really don't like how they just break their own established rules whenever they feel like it. It undermines the whole suspension of disbelief because there must be something to believe in, otherwise it's just a bunch of silly special effects. This whole idea of operating a hyperdrive where it should not work is one of those areas I have a problem with, even with magic SW physics.
  • Boo
    3270 posts Member
    edited January 4
    Boo wrote: »
    @EventineElessedil

    Didn't Solo also use the Falcon's hyperdrive to escape the gravity wells during the Kessel Run in Solo? I only saw that terrible movie once and don't care to see it again to make sure, but I believe he did this here as well.

    If so, another example of this break in the lore as clearly the gravity well here was preventing the Falcon from escaping and thus clearly had an effect on the ship and its ability to even use lightspeed as well.

    I have not yet seen Solo @Boo but hope to sometime soon. The Kessel Run has always confused me, even after reading the old "legends" Han Solo trilogy. SW has always had it's own magic physics and astronomical laws, so I file the Kessel Run in the area of "just accept it." But I really don't like how they just break their own established rules whenever they feel like it. It undermines the whole suspension of disbelief because there must be something to believe in, otherwise it's just a bunch of silly special effects. This whole idea of operating a hyperdrive where it should not work is one of those areas I have a problem with, even with magic SW physics.

    True, but if every ship could use lightspeed through the Kessel Run then they would all be travelling at the same speed...Speed of Light.

    The point made in ANH is that the Falcon made the Kessel Run because its speed and agility in that situation made it famous, not because it diid something all ships can do, travelling at the same speed as any other ship in the galaxy.

    Looking at it this way, it is even more lore breaking than just talking about the use of lightspeed in and around gravity wells where they should not work.

    As for Solo as a movie, I thought it was somewhat of an enjoyable watch, despite several issues I have with it. Overall the story did not flow nicely, the director and production issues are evident that way.

    There were also some things that were nonsensical about the characters and plot, but I wont dive into that if you have not seen it yet.

    One of the things I hated was Han thinking Chewbacca's name was too long (a 3 syllable name) so shortens it to a 2 syllable name - Chewie. This did not need any explanation and just seems thrown in there for the sake of it, looking stupid, lol.

    Ultimately I did not like the movie enough to buy it on DVD, and if E9 fails to redeem the tragedy of the current sequel trilogy, I may get rid of my copies of TFA and TLJ as well - pretend it never happened, just a bad dream.

    @EventineElessedil let me know when you see Solo,I'd like to hear what you think about it overall.

    :smile:
  • Boo
    3270 posts Member
    @EventineElessedil - I just noticed another issue with TLJ.

    Finn refers to the stolen ship from Canto Bite they use to get back to the Resistance fleet as fast, when they are travelling through lightspeed.

    But lightspeed is lightspeed as we determined earlier in our conversation regarding the Keseel Run - it is merely the same speed...Lightspeed.

    So how can this ship Finn is referring to have a faster lightspeed than lightspeed?????

    I am 100% positive that no one proof read Johonson's script for TLJ at all.

    Also they comment that the First Order cannot catch the Resistance ships because they are lighter than their own - but weight is meaningless in space? Again, very odd script indeed.

    Thank you Rian Johnson, lol
  • Boo wrote: »
    Finn refers to the stolen ship from Canto Bite they use to get back to the Resistance fleet as fast, when they are travelling through lightspeed.

    But lightspeed is lightspeed as we determined earlier in our conversation regarding the Keseel Run - it is merely the same speed...Lightspeed.

    So how can this ship Finn is referring to have a faster lightspeed than lightspeed?????

    "She'll make point five past lightspeed." It has been well established that lightspeed can be exceeded in the SW universe ... much like the sound barrier, the light barrier is only a technological limitation. I think of the Falcon's top speed as 1.5c, similar to a Mach number. So not all hyperdrives are the same speed.

    But I know you already knew this @Boo ;)

    Also interesting to think of space as a curved surface. When close to a gravity well, the surface is so "steep" that a hyperdrive is unable to produce the acceleration required to crest the hill, so they must use sub-light engines in that region. But even after the event horizon has been passed making lightspeed possible, space is still curved, perhaps limiting a ship's top speed. We could theorize that the hyperdrive must itself create a curvature in space, possibly creating a bow shock type of deceleration effect which gets stronger with velocity; the faster you go, the steeper the hill in front of you until you can accelerate no longer.

    Anyway, enough of that. Cheers.
  • Boo
    3270 posts Member
    Boo wrote: »
    Finn refers to the stolen ship from Canto Bite they use to get back to the Resistance fleet as fast, when they are travelling through lightspeed.

    But lightspeed is lightspeed as we determined earlier in our conversation regarding the Keseel Run - it is merely the same speed...Lightspeed.

    So how can this ship Finn is referring to have a faster lightspeed than lightspeed?????

    "She'll make point five past lightspeed." It has been well established that lightspeed can be exceeded in the SW universe ... much like the sound barrier, the light barrier is only a technological limitation. I think of the Falcon's top speed as 1.5c, similar to a Mach number. So not all hyperdrives are the same speed.

    But I know you already knew this @Boo ;)

    Also interesting to think of space as a curved surface. When close to a gravity well, the surface is so "steep" that a hyperdrive is unable to produce the acceleration required to crest the hill, so they must use sub-light engines in that region. But even after the event horizon has been passed making lightspeed possible, space is still curved, perhaps limiting a ship's top speed. We could theorize that the hyperdrive must itself create a curvature in space, possibly creating a bow shock type of deceleration effect which gets stronger with velocity; the faster you go, the steeper the hill in front of you until you can accelerate no longer.

    Anyway, enough of that. Cheers.

    I can't believe that slipped my brain!!! lol

    I like and certainly agree with your overall theory!
  • I must admit that thing with lightspeed through shield in the Force Awakens was probably my biggest issue. I was thinking maybe that shield is different from the one in ships. Anyway if ship can go through planetary shield it could cause a serious damage to anything.

    @EventineElessedil there was in Rebels also a moment when Hera(if I am not mistaken) escaped before Thrawn through hangar shields using lightspeed. Don't know what episode it is but always thought it that action was taken from the Force Awakens.
  • Boo wrote: »
    Finn refers to the stolen ship from Canto Bite they use to get back to the Resistance fleet as fast, when they are travelling through lightspeed.

    But lightspeed is lightspeed as we determined earlier in our conversation regarding the Keseel Run - it is merely the same speed...Lightspeed.

    So how can this ship Finn is referring to have a faster lightspeed than lightspeed?????

    "She'll make point five past lightspeed." It has been well established that lightspeed can be exceeded in the SW universe ... much like the sound barrier, the light barrier is only a technological limitation. I think of the Falcon's top speed as 1.5c, similar to a Mach number. So not all hyperdrives are the same speed.

    But I know you already knew this @Boo ;)

    Also interesting to think of space as a curved surface. When close to a gravity well, the surface is so "steep" that a hyperdrive is unable to produce the acceleration required to crest the hill, so they must use sub-light engines in that region. But even after the event horizon has been passed making lightspeed possible, space is still curved, perhaps limiting a ship's top speed. We could theorize that the hyperdrive must itself create a curvature in space, possibly creating a bow shock type of deceleration effect which gets stronger with velocity; the faster you go, the steeper the hill in front of you until you can accelerate no longer.

    Anyway, enough of that. Cheers.

    Sounds like we are getting into Einstein territory.
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