GP Matchmaking & “Fluff”

Replies

  • No_Try
    4033 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So why was paper zombie nerfed? If not leveling and powering your toons, is not in the spirit of the game, as was the excuse given for the paper zombie nerf.
    So doing what the devs said was the intent , to level and gear your toons, is a bad choice. Sorry not buying it.

    who said it isn't in the spirit of the game.

    GP is a measure of how much upgrading you have done throughout your SWGOH career, but if you want to be competitive in a game mode like TW and GA, than you need to focus that development. People who dont can do great in many game modes and will be able to react quickly when things change, but that doesn't mean they should face people who are hyper focused on this style of game play, just because they may not have the tools developed to best cope with this like others have.

    development is always good, but how you do it can mean you made "bad choices" towards certain game modes.

    this was a similar concept back in the day with GW, when you tried to focus too much and got swamped and couldn't progress.

    each game mode has its own little nuances and understanding that can help you be a better player. but expecting to be great at all of them is not something for mere mortals to achieve.

    at no point is anyone saying you shouldn't develop, but you should develop with a plan that doesn't involve blind numbers. TB spread people out, but taking that too far was never a good idea. there is always a balance to strike.

    If i was using the gear crunch pieces and all my resources to lvl my 7 star toons to lvl 85 g7-8 that would be true, but i am being punished for using excess gear, not for my choices, im not stuck on any character. im progressing forward. The only place this is a bad choice. Is in grand arena , no where else is leveling my rogue one squad to g7 lvl 85 punished. Or starting my leveling of the solo toons or OR toons, without their stars , so that when i finish starring them , they will be ready to go, only grand arena punishes for that. Not sure how using the extra resources i have is making a bad choice?
    Do i need more gear and omegas and Zetas, yeah i do , we all do. We arent talking about using Zetas or omegas. We are talking about credits, which are supremely abundant, and will be more so , now that no one is gonna lvl any toon that they arent directly using right now. Or the gear to get to g7. Neither of which requires a choice , we have thousands. So my bad choice, was using these items on my toons?

    you dont get punished for development. you can get hurt by bad choices when developing.

    as always focused development can help you be more competitive in any game mode. This game mode is more focused than we have seen before.

    Yeah draw an abstract line in the sand what constitutes of bad choices and defend it.
  • No_Try
    4033 posts Member
    CG I'm listening peeps. I AM LISTENING!

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  • DARTH_TED wrote: »

    So I assume these stats would put me in the top 1% of Development. And because I have worked on all my characters I’m going to be at a disadvantage because out of the clear blue sky they came up with a new game mode that punishes what I’ve done.

    I also have a problem with the fact that I could drop mods off of 100 characters and get myself paired down drastically. And then screw somebody else over in the process.

    Sounds like they actively encouraging people to not work on characters just to perpetuate the panic farming at a later date to me.

    I want to like this game mode but the matchmaking has got to be more than just base GP.

    100% agree with this.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So you are really trying to tell us that CG doesn’t want us to level up the mass of so called “trash characters”? Only reason from a company standpoint that that would make any sense would be because they want players to panic farm. Even though they would generate a ton more $$$$ if players were actively building up their rosters. I am pretty sure they know this. That’s just common sense.

    What is useful or useless one day can be the direct opposite the next day. Just look at Nest 😜 We have seen this on a fairly regular basis.

    Pretty sure they were just lazy when they came up with the current matchmaking system. I can imagine coming up with an in-depth matchmaking system would take a lot of time and work. I can guess we will see a better matchmaking system implemented in the near future. Obviously this is an issue.

    Matchmaking has been an issue since day one in TW and that can’t be denied. You are on the forums a lot, you have seen the rants. They used that same system for matching 1v1. Using GP for matchmaking guilds rounds out a little usually but in 1v1 it can be much worse as we have all seen.

    As I stated previously, my GA matchup was fairly good. However, countless players matchups were very lopsided obviously. My roster is stacked and I am not worried about myself here and my so called “fluff”. I want a well rounded, challenging experience from this new game mode. If it’s the Best of the Best then the matchups really need to be as close as possible. This means a more in-depth matchmaking system.

    If a player chooses to add “fluff” or not is their choice. No problem with that at all. Just don’t penalize those players who have worked on their rosters. Shouldn’t matter if a character is meta or not. That’s just silly stupid right there.
  • Eddiemundie
    988 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Vicarious wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So you are really trying to tell us that CG doesn’t want us to level up the mass of so called “trash characters”? Only reason from a company standpoint that that would make any sense would be because they want players to panic farm. Even though they would generate a ton more $$$$ if players were actively building up their rosters. I am pretty sure they know this. That’s just common sense.

    What is useful or useless one day can be the direct opposite the next day. Just look at Nest 😜 We have seen this on a fairly regular basis.

    Pretty sure they were just lazy when they came up with the current matchmaking system. I can imagine coming up with an in-depth matchmaking system would take a lot of time and work. I can guess we will see a better matchmaking system implemented in the near future. Obviously this is an issue.

    Matchmaking has been an issue since day one in TW and that can’t be denied. You are on the forums a lot, you have seen the rants. They used that same system for matching 1v1. Using GP for matchmaking guilds rounds out a little usually but in 1v1 it can be much worse as we have all seen.

    As I stated previously, my GA matchup was fairly good. However, countless players matchups were very lopsided obviously. My roster is stacked and I am not worried about myself here and my so called “fluff”. I want a well rounded, challenging experience from this new game mode. If it’s the Best of the Best then the matchups really need to be as close as possible. This means a more in-depth matchmaking system.

    If a player chooses to add “fluff” or not is their choice. No problem with that at all. Just don’t penalize those players who have worked on their rosters. Shouldn’t matter if a character is meta or not. That’s just silly stupid right there.

    Except they dont use gp to do tw matchmaking anymore. The recent matchups for tw have been alot fairer than not.

    Forums are a bad benchmark for how angry the population is because the loud minority usually make themselves heard.

    The way i see it is that for a mid level player (around 1.5-2.5m gp), if u have focused farming u basically benefit in tw and grand arena. However, u suffer in tb from low gp, lack of required nonmeta teams, low contribution to platoons. So there's a win and a loss. But if u see all the benefits of focused farming and leveling, then it is clear which strategy u should take.

    Edit: to add, nest isnt useless still. Beats most other teams other than revan.
    Post edited by Eddiemundie on
  • Liath
    4942 posts Member
    Vicarious wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So you are really trying to tell us that CG doesn’t want us to level up the mass of so called “trash characters”? Only reason from a company standpoint that that would make any sense would be because they want players to panic farm. Even though they would generate a ton more $$$$ if players were actively building up their rosters. I am pretty sure they know this. That’s just common sense.

    I’m sure they would love for you to put all those useless characters to g12. I’m equally sure they don’t care about you putting them to g7, for exactly the reason you do it - the resources used aren’t really relevant in the current state of the game.
  • Boov
    604 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    Vicarious wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So why was paper zombie nerfed? If not leveling and powering your toons, is not in the spirit of the game, as was the excuse given for the paper zombie nerf.
    So doing what the devs said was the intent , to level and gear your toons, is a bad choice. Sorry not buying it.

    who said it isn't in the spirit of the game.

    GP is a measure of how much upgrading you have done throughout your SWGOH career, but if you want to be competitive in a game mode like TW and GA, than you need to focus that development. People who dont can do great in many game modes and will be able to react quickly when things change, but that doesn't mean they should face people who are hyper focused on this style of game play, just because they may not have the tools developed to best cope with this like others have.

    development is always good, but how you do it can mean you made "bad choices" towards certain game modes.

    this was a similar concept back in the day with GW, when you tried to focus too much and got swamped and couldn't progress.

    each game mode has its own little nuances and understanding that can help you be a better player. but expecting to be great at all of them is not something for mere mortals to achieve.

    at no point is anyone saying you shouldn't develop, but you should develop with a plan that doesn't involve blind numbers. TB spread people out, but taking that too far was never a good idea. there is always a balance to strike.

    CG said “it isn’t in the spirit of the game” to not level up characters. That quote was in my initial post.

    It's not in the spirit of the game to intentionally not level a character you are actually using because said character works *better* at a lower gear level. This is not remotely the same thing as not half-leveling/gearing characters you have no intention of using.

    Depends on what you consider "using", alot of my guildmates increased their GP by leveling, gearing and modding undesirable toons to use the GP that comes with that to get additional stars in TB.
    Not to mention that the principle is the same, leveling/gearing/modding hurts your performance. A roster with all characters unlocked, lvl-ed to atleast lvl 70, geared to atleast g7 and all modded is at a competative disadvantage vs a roster with toons left at lvl 1, g1 and unmodded.
    I understand that all those toons that are leveled and geared perform better than their unleveled and ungeared counterparts, but isn't it a disingenuous to say it's not remotely the same thing?
    With that said, i believe it is known that ea/cg just uses their words to spin a certain issue a certain way in order for it to go over better with the playerbase, but those words in no way reflect how they really feel about the issue.
    put all the p2p ships directly in platoons which results in 180m GP guilds not being able to fill a single fleet platoon in p5 and p6, but appologise for putting revan in platoons too early. i mean, what?! haha
    Trying to hold them to what they said in the past is pointless.
  • Bz183
    166 posts Member
    Why should players who have a focused PvP roster be punished with consistently harder matchups? You make choices in this game, live with it.
  • Vicarious wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So why was paper zombie nerfed? If not leveling and powering your toons, is not in the spirit of the game, as was the excuse given for the paper zombie nerf.
    So doing what the devs said was the intent , to level and gear your toons, is a bad choice. Sorry not buying it.

    who said it isn't in the spirit of the game.

    GP is a measure of how much upgrading you have done throughout your SWGOH career, but if you want to be competitive in a game mode like TW and GA, than you need to focus that development. People who dont can do great in many game modes and will be able to react quickly when things change, but that doesn't mean they should face people who are hyper focused on this style of game play, just because they may not have the tools developed to best cope with this like others have.

    development is always good, but how you do it can mean you made "bad choices" towards certain game modes.

    this was a similar concept back in the day with GW, when you tried to focus too much and got swamped and couldn't progress.

    each game mode has its own little nuances and understanding that can help you be a better player. but expecting to be great at all of them is not something for mere mortals to achieve.

    at no point is anyone saying you shouldn't develop, but you should develop with a plan that doesn't involve blind numbers. TB spread people out, but taking that too far was never a good idea. there is always a balance to strike.

    CG said “it isn’t in the spirit of the game” to not level up characters. That quote was in my initial post.
    Vicarious wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So why was paper zombie nerfed? If not leveling and powering your toons, is not in the spirit of the game, as was the excuse given for the paper zombie nerf.
    So doing what the devs said was the intent , to level and gear your toons, is a bad choice. Sorry not buying it.

    who said it isn't in the spirit of the game.

    GP is a measure of how much upgrading you have done throughout your SWGOH career, but if you want to be competitive in a game mode like TW and GA, than you need to focus that development. People who dont can do great in many game modes and will be able to react quickly when things change, but that doesn't mean they should face people who are hyper focused on this style of game play, just because they may not have the tools developed to best cope with this like others have.

    development is always good, but how you do it can mean you made "bad choices" towards certain game modes.

    this was a similar concept back in the day with GW, when you tried to focus too much and got swamped and couldn't progress.

    each game mode has its own little nuances and understanding that can help you be a better player. but expecting to be great at all of them is not something for mere mortals to achieve.

    at no point is anyone saying you shouldn't develop, but you should develop with a plan that doesn't involve blind numbers. TB spread people out, but taking that too far was never a good idea. there is always a balance to strike.

    CG said “it isn’t in the spirit of the game” to not level up characters. That quote was in my initial post.

    This is not what they said. They acknowledged that specifically, paper zombie was better than zombie at higher gear levels. This is what they’re saying is not in the spirit of the game regarding character progression. More investment in a character should make them more effective.

    They wanted to make zombie better at a higher gear level than at a lower one, hence the changes. You’re taking their quote SPECIFICALLY regarding investment in zombie and making it about all characters, where investment does make them more effective. They did not imply it isn’t in the spirit of the game to not level all characters.
  • Nauros
    2998 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So why was paper zombie nerfed? If not leveling and powering your toons, is not in the spirit of the game, as was the excuse given for the paper zombie nerf.
    So doing what the devs said was the intent , to level and gear your toons, is a bad choice. Sorry not buying it.

    who said it isn't in the spirit of the game.

    GP is a measure of how much upgrading you have done throughout your SWGOH career, but if you want to be competitive in a game mode like TW and GA, than you need to focus that development. People who dont can do great in many game modes and will be able to react quickly when things change, but that doesn't mean they should face people who are hyper focused on this style of game play, just because they may not have the tools developed to best cope with this like others have.

    development is always good, but how you do it can mean you made "bad choices" towards certain game modes.

    this was a similar concept back in the day with GW, when you tried to focus too much and got swamped and couldn't progress.

    each game mode has its own little nuances and understanding that can help you be a better player. but expecting to be great at all of them is not something for mere mortals to achieve.

    at no point is anyone saying you shouldn't develop, but you should develop with a plan that doesn't involve blind numbers. TB spread people out, but taking that too far was never a good idea. there is always a balance to strike.

    If i was using the gear crunch pieces and all my resources to lvl my 7 star toons to lvl 85 g7-8 that would be true, but i am being punished for using excess gear, not for my choices, im not stuck on any character. im progressing forward. The only place this is a bad choice. Is in grand arena , no where else is leveling my rogue one squad to g7 lvl 85 punished. Or starting my leveling of the solo toons or OR toons, without their stars , so that when i finish starring them , they will be ready to go, only grand arena punishes for that. Not sure how using the extra resources i have is making a bad choice?
    Do i need more gear and omegas and Zetas, yeah i do , we all do. We arent talking about using Zetas or omegas. We are talking about credits, which are supremely abundant, and will be more so , now that no one is gonna lvl any toon that they arent directly using right now. Or the gear to get to g7. Neither of which requires a choice , we have thousands. So my bad choice, was using these items on my toons?

    you dont get punished for development. you can get hurt by bad choices when developing.

    as always focused development can help you be more competitive in any game mode. This game mode is more focused than we have seen before.

    But people are getting punished for development. Giving excess gear to unused characters in no way hinders the relevant ones, so it isn't (or shouldn't be) a bad development choice. It's not about gearing CUP instead of CLS, but in addition to. With this game mode, it's better to leave the gear unused and not even unlock new characters.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Kyno
    22114 posts Moderator
    TWings wrote: »
    There are really a lot of people missing the point here.
    Sure there are diferents people with diferent games styles alright, and those people make their choices, but bascially the message sent by GA's matching only by pure GP is :
    Don't unlock toons you don't use, don't star up toons you don't use, because if you do so, even if they stay at gear 1 level 1, you'll get penalized as eventually they'll be compared to g12 toons in GA.

    So it really has nothing to do with playstyle or strategy, unless you mean actually not unlocking/staring up toons for who you do have the shards already (and I could pretty much include zetas and gear in this but let's keep it simple) is a strategy. So, what I should have really done is keep all those toons ready to be unlocked but not push the "activate" button alright ? Short version, players should hold off everything to make sure their GP is not "artifically" buffed up by useless stuff.

    I don't know, but I really doubt that's the message EA/CG want to send. That would basically tell everyone to slow down on spending and such (pretty much like the paper zombi case).

    What?

    I think you are missing the point.

    Each level you increase, adds to GP
    Each ability you add, adds to GP
    Each gear you add, adds to GP
    Each mod you place, adds to GP

    Adding those are all player choices. If you developed with no focus or goal of having a use for a toon and just want pure GP because you are TB focused, those choices will hurt you in competitive mode like TW or now GA.

    This doesnt mean you shouldnt develop but as always you should have focus and manage your resources to make sure you are getting the best bang for your buck.

    Activating a toon does add a small amount but that's not what is hurting people when getting matched against a focused roster. The old mindset of TB, where you bring toons up to lvl 50, place mods, ability to 6 and gear up using the stuff you have a bunch of. << not balancing this or following this too long is what has been hurting people in TW and now GA.

    Focusing at a certain point on good defensive teams and counters to some of the good teams, helps you develop a lean and effective roster. This focus is not only specific teams, just a focus on teams that can be used.

    Unlocking CUP does not get him compared to CLS, but we need an arbitrary point system to rate development so that the devs are not hand holding matches and judging toons for us. That's the players choice who they think they can make win a match.
  • FalenXLacer
    342 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Look. In the end, I want the people who invested in top-heavy rosters to get rewarded for that in this game mode. I expect them to get better rewards from this mode than I will. That’s fine. It’s great even. And if the rewards at higher levels are that good, maybe I’ll even adjust the way I play to try to earn them myself.

    But! People with lean rosters can get better rewards and people with fluffy rosters can get lesser rewards without forcing the lean roster people and the fluffy roster people to play against each other. Those matchups are neither fun nor interesting. Just implement an Elo rating system and pair people with similar ratings. (edit: players in higher rating brackets would be eligible for higher rewards). Problem solved. The distribution of reward can remain identical—the only difference will be that more players have fun, challenging opponents.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Liath
    4942 posts Member
    It's also not even necessarily the case that those g8 characters have no value in GA. 6 offense and 6 defense teams is quite a bit in that not-quite-3m range where I fall at the moment, and while g8 characters aren't going to take out a g12 meta team, they can be used to clean up, to take out that weak team your opponent also had to throw in, or to fill a hole created in a team by the fact that you can only use a particular character in one spot.
  • Liath wrote: »
    It's also not even necessarily the case that those g8 characters have no value in GA. 6 offense and 6 defense teams is quite a bit in that not-quite-3m range where I fall at the moment, and while g8 characters aren't going to take out a g12 meta team, they can be used to clean up, to take out that weak team your opponent also had to throw in, or to fill a hole created in a team by the fact that you can only use a particular character in one spot.

    You don’t have to set all strong teams on defense. You can set 2nd tier teams and win by saving your best squads for attacking and winning cleanly.
  • Nauros
    2998 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    It's also not even necessarily the case that those g8 characters have no value in GA. 6 offense and 6 defense teams is quite a bit in that not-quite-3m range where I fall at the moment, and while g8 characters aren't going to take out a g12 meta team, they can be used to clean up, to take out that weak team your opponent also had to throw in, or to fill a hole created in a team by the fact that you can only use a particular character in one spot.

    Except for each two 60k teams you could potentially use for cleanup, your opponent can have one 120k team you will have no chance of hurting. That's the main problem of such an oversimplified metric as GP.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • Montanz
    161 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Sure the match making needs to be tweaked no denying it, but...

    Almost all of the teams in this game are deadly if they get some speed on them. It’s a recipe to success that many ppl figured out long ago in 2016 when all the YouTube videos were about “understanding mods”. You may have made some wrong choices on leveling up toons you weren’t using and not focusing 1 squad at a time. But the biggest mistake of players is not understanding mods and not focusing on them for a month every now and then.

    Undergeared toons with speed can still tear it up, get moducated. This game mode and infact almost the entire game now is about mods and squad knowledge
  • Montanz wrote: »
    Almost all of the teams in this game are deadly if they get some speed on them. It’s a recipe to success that many ppl figured out long ago in 2016 when all the YouTube videos were about “understanding mods”. You may have made some wrong choices on leveling up toons you weren’t using and not focusing 1 squad at a time. But the biggest mistake of players is not understanding mods and not focusing on them for a month every now and then.

    Undergeared toons with speed can still tear it up, get moducated.

    Come on. Are you seriously suggesting that the guy with lean roster of 12 full G12 squads has somehow neglected to mod them for speed, and that therefore the player with the fluffy roster can somehow beat him by moving mods around? That’s absurd.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Montanz
    161 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    G11 + higher speed + game knowledge will definitely beat g12 with no mods
  • Montanz wrote: »
    I’m suggesting the fluffy player doesn’t really have fluff.. just doesn’t have the mods to make his “fluff” good enough

    The fluffy player is going to have a lot of deficits to make up. Mods are an important one, but there’s also gear levels, meta characters, and zetas. Catching up or even surpassing the lean player in mods isn’t going to be enough if you’re not also catching up on the other things.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Montanz wrote: »
    G11 + higher speed + game knowledge will definitely beat g12 with no mods
    Sure. But why in the world would you assume that anybody with a full GA roster of G12 teams has “no mods”? That’s insane. Not only are they going to have mods, they’re going to have very good mods with speed secondaries, because they’ve been focused on PVP for a long time.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Boov
    604 posts Member
    Montanz wrote: »
    G11 + higher speed + game knowledge will definitely beat g12 with no mods

    g11 isn't exactly "fluff" though
  • Montanz
    161 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    There’s no point crying about someone that is “lean”.. you can however take steps to lift your game. You make it sound like the fluff player is going to have a Jawa team as their only squad, FO, BH, Imp troopers, NS, Pheonix, Ewoks, JTR, Bastila, Cls, zfinnPoe, are all pretty standard teams that have been in the game for awhile now and are all viable for grand arena. If you don’t have these teams then what the hell is in your roster. Get mods on the guys and focus in the fights and you can win. Don’t give up!
  • Montanz wrote: »
    There’s no point crying about someone that is “lean”.. you can however take steps to lift your game. You make it sound like the fluff player is going to have a Jawa team as their only squad, FO, BH, Imp troopers, NS, Pheonix, Ewoks, JTR, Bastila, Cls, zfinnPoe, are all pretty standard teams that have been in the game for awhile now and are all viable for grand arena. If you don’t have these teams then what the hell is in your roster. Get mods on the guys and focus in the fights and you can win. Don’t give up!

    Ok I think I see your point now. In terms of what a fluffy player can do right now to prepare their roster for GA, working on mods will probably give the biggest return on investment in the short run. That’s true, and it’s good advice.

    It won’t be enough to overcome this pairing algorithm though.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Boov
    604 posts Member
    Montanz wrote: »
    There’s no point crying about someone that is “lean”.. you can however take steps to lift your game. You make it sound like the fluff player is going to have a Jawa team as their only squad, FO, BH, Imp troopers, NS, Pheonix, Ewoks, JTR, Bastila, Cls, zfinnPoe, are all pretty standard teams that have been in the game for awhile now and are all viable for grand arena. If you don’t have these teams then what the hell is in your roster. Get mods on the guys and focus in the fights and you can win. Don’t give up!

    No one is making is sound like that.
    Point is that if you've got alot of "fluff" (useless characters only moderately geared/lvl/modded to increase GP for TB) you're gonna have less usefull squads than a player with the same amount of GP who didn't inflate his GP by upping undesirable characters.
    my g8 poggle and cup combined have the same amount of GP as my double zeta g12 palpatine for example, yet they're no where near as usefull in GA. However, for matchmaking purposes those poggle and cup are equal to that palp.
    for the record, i don't have alot of fluff in my roster.
  • I just wanted to let you people know that just because you have some fluff doesn’t mean it’s over for you. You’ll have the chance to beat other fluff players. And if you mod for speed and take the first turn you’ll probably beat average players and become an average player yourself. Then from there your whole game will change because your squads are performing better and now you understand mods and you’ll only continue to rise. It’s never too late for redemption in this game, I have helped many guildmembers realise their true potential.. all via M O D S
  • Kyno wrote: »
    It's about how you build your roster and how you develop in the game. If you developed more competitively or not. That's the players choice.

    The problem is that this statement doesn't jive with the developer approach to the game since the first Tournaments. For two years now events and new characters and so on and so forth have been designed with the intent of rewarding people who DON'T just focus on a handful of characters and develop them. They want us to work on jawas and ewoks and phoenix and bounty hunters and all the other teams that people look at and go, "Well they're not Arena-worthy, so I'm not going to bother."

    Ask around and you'll hear a bunch of people talk about how they have so many characters at level 1, no gear, nothing because they don't want to "waste resources" on them. That's keeping their GP artificially low. Moreover, they're already being incentivised to do this by getting to place high in Arena each payout.

    This doesn't even get into the problem of ships not being used in this iteration of Grand Arena. My matchup in the scrubbed Grand Arena event yesterday had 100k less GP than me, but if you took ship out of the equation I had a little over 400k less than him. That's a pretty significant power differential!

    I'm being punished as a player for having bothered to work on teams that people think are useless. I can't "sell" my Lobot or my jawas or my CUP or Ugnaught or any of the other characters I've got at 7*, g7 or g8 to lower my GP. Likewise, if I use them in Grand Arena to soften up my opponent, I'm sacrificing banners because now I'm not winning on the first attack any more. Do you see?

    The point I'm trying to make is that simply basing Grand Arena matchups off of flat Galactic Power devoid of any other contextual criteria is a bad way of doing things. Not only does it lead to gross mismatches regularly, but it runs counter to the stated design goal of events: Incentivise people to use and develop their whole roster instead of just the top parts.

    Unlike a lot of folks kvetching around here, I've read the announcements and I understand that they're going to be tuning the matchmaking system as we go along. They need to see it in action and they need feedback before they can make changes.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Vicarious wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So why was paper zombie nerfed? If not leveling and powering your toons, is not in the spirit of the game, as was the excuse given for the paper zombie nerf.
    So doing what the devs said was the intent , to level and gear your toons, is a bad choice. Sorry not buying it.

    who said it isn't in the spirit of the game.

    GP is a measure of how much upgrading you have done throughout your SWGOH career, but if you want to be competitive in a game mode like TW and GA, than you need to focus that development. People who dont can do great in many game modes and will be able to react quickly when things change, but that doesn't mean they should face people who are hyper focused on this style of game play, just because they may not have the tools developed to best cope with this like others have.

    development is always good, but how you do it can mean you made "bad choices" towards certain game modes.

    this was a similar concept back in the day with GW, when you tried to focus too much and got swamped and couldn't progress.

    each game mode has its own little nuances and understanding that can help you be a better player. but expecting to be great at all of them is not something for mere mortals to achieve.

    at no point is anyone saying you shouldn't develop, but you should develop with a plan that doesn't involve blind numbers. TB spread people out, but taking that too far was never a good idea. there is always a balance to strike.

    CG said “it isn’t in the spirit of the game” to not level up characters. That quote was in my initial post.

    Sure...... Except they never said that......
    Not word for word but from what I understood, and OP is right here, CG's intended spirit of the game was that gearing / leveling your roster should be rewarded and encouraged (make deep rosters). The game spirit is that invest in your toons and reap the rewards. To invest in your toons you need to gear them up. To gear them up, you need to level them up. So leveling toons is part of that game spirit

    Its literally in the screenshot in the opening post that investing more deeply in a character should be rewarded and leveling up a toon is investing in that toon but Grand Arena encourages the opposite "only level toons you are absolutely going to use / need to be meta or else you will be outmatched"

    Instead of having a wide roster strength its concentrated group of toons

    No..... It had nothing to do with your roster or this type of game mode and what you keep putting in quotations is incorrect....

    What you are saying about investing in a single chsracter, however, is absolutely correct and more in line with what they actually said...

    There is a very big difference between encouraging players to take a character like zombie and level her to g10 plus and encouraging players to level all of their fluff toons to G8 and never use them.....

    wc58rjt8x81s.jpg
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Vicarious wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So why was paper zombie nerfed? If not leveling and powering your toons, is not in the spirit of the game, as was the excuse given for the paper zombie nerf.
    So doing what the devs said was the intent , to level and gear your toons, is a bad choice. Sorry not buying it.

    who said it isn't in the spirit of the game.

    GP is a measure of how much upgrading you have done throughout your SWGOH career, but if you want to be competitive in a game mode like TW and GA, than you need to focus that development. People who dont can do great in many game modes and will be able to react quickly when things change, but that doesn't mean they should face people who are hyper focused on this style of game play, just because they may not have the tools developed to best cope with this like others have.

    development is always good, but how you do it can mean you made "bad choices" towards certain game modes.

    this was a similar concept back in the day with GW, when you tried to focus too much and got swamped and couldn't progress.

    each game mode has its own little nuances and understanding that can help you be a better player. but expecting to be great at all of them is not something for mere mortals to achieve.

    at no point is anyone saying you shouldn't develop, but you should develop with a plan that doesn't involve blind numbers. TB spread people out, but taking that too far was never a good idea. there is always a balance to strike.

    CG said “it isn’t in the spirit of the game” to not level up characters. That quote was in my initial post.

    Sure...... Except they never said that......
    Not word for word but from what I understood, and OP is right here, CG's intended spirit of the game was that gearing / leveling your roster should be rewarded and encouraged (make deep rosters). The game spirit is that invest in your toons and reap the rewards. To invest in your toons you need to gear them up. To gear them up, you need to level them up. So leveling toons is part of that game spirit

    Its literally in the screenshot in the opening post that investing more deeply in a character should be rewarded and leveling up a toon is investing in that toon but Grand Arena encourages the opposite "only level toons you are absolutely going to use / need to be meta or else you will be outmatched"

    Instead of having a wide roster strength its concentrated group of toons

    No..... It had nothing to do with your roster or this type of game mode and what you keep putting in quotations is incorrect....

    What you are saying about investing in a single chsracter, however, is absolutely correct and more in line with what they actually said...

    There is a very big difference between encouraging players to take a character like zombie and level her to g10 plus and encouraging players to level all of their fluff toons to G8 and never use them.....

    wc58rjt8x81s.jpg

    Yes..... That is specifically in regards to the paper zombie nerf.... If you followed the whole chain of events etc, they specifically stated that no character should perform better if underinvested in.....
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Vicarious wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So why was paper zombie nerfed? If not leveling and powering your toons, is not in the spirit of the game, as was the excuse given for the paper zombie nerf.
    So doing what the devs said was the intent , to level and gear your toons, is a bad choice. Sorry not buying it.

    who said it isn't in the spirit of the game.

    GP is a measure of how much upgrading you have done throughout your SWGOH career, but if you want to be competitive in a game mode like TW and GA, than you need to focus that development. People who dont can do great in many game modes and will be able to react quickly when things change, but that doesn't mean they should face people who are hyper focused on this style of game play, just because they may not have the tools developed to best cope with this like others have.

    development is always good, but how you do it can mean you made "bad choices" towards certain game modes.

    this was a similar concept back in the day with GW, when you tried to focus too much and got swamped and couldn't progress.

    each game mode has its own little nuances and understanding that can help you be a better player. but expecting to be great at all of them is not something for mere mortals to achieve.

    at no point is anyone saying you shouldn't develop, but you should develop with a plan that doesn't involve blind numbers. TB spread people out, but taking that too far was never a good idea. there is always a balance to strike.

    CG said “it isn’t in the spirit of the game” to not level up characters. That quote was in my initial post.

    Sure...... Except they never said that......
    Not word for word but from what I understood, and OP is right here, CG's intended spirit of the game was that gearing / leveling your roster should be rewarded and encouraged (make deep rosters). The game spirit is that invest in your toons and reap the rewards. To invest in your toons you need to gear them up. To gear them up, you need to level them up. So leveling toons is part of that game spirit

    Its literally in the screenshot in the opening post that investing more deeply in a character should be rewarded and leveling up a toon is investing in that toon but Grand Arena encourages the opposite "only level toons you are absolutely going to use / need to be meta or else you will be outmatched"

    Instead of having a wide roster strength its concentrated group of toons

    No..... It had nothing to do with your roster or this type of game mode and what you keep putting in quotations is incorrect....

    What you are saying about investing in a single chsracter, however, is absolutely correct and more in line with what they actually said...

    There is a very big difference between encouraging players to take a character like zombie and level her to g10 plus and encouraging players to level all of their fluff toons to G8 and never use them.....

    wc58rjt8x81s.jpg

    This is the kind of design principal that gets articulated only when it justifies a change they already wanted to make. They said it, sure, but they didn’t mean it. That’s been clear for ages. It’s unreasonable to expect consistency on this point. Quoting a design principal, demonstrating the hypocrisy, isn’t going to fix the pairing algorithm. (It will grant you a justified sense of moral surperiority over the corporate PR department, which is, I suppose, its own reward).

    As I keep saying, I’m fine if people with under-geared toons and top-heavy rosters get better rewards in this event. I just want to have fun playing it against other players who provide an adequate challenge for me.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    Vicarious wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I just want to say if starring and leveling toons is making a bad choice in this game, why was paper zombie eliminated??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    All toons vs the useful toons is 2 different things. One is a bad choice.

    So why was paper zombie nerfed? If not leveling and powering your toons, is not in the spirit of the game, as was the excuse given for the paper zombie nerf.
    So doing what the devs said was the intent , to level and gear your toons, is a bad choice. Sorry not buying it.

    who said it isn't in the spirit of the game.

    GP is a measure of how much upgrading you have done throughout your SWGOH career, but if you want to be competitive in a game mode like TW and GA, than you need to focus that development. People who dont can do great in many game modes and will be able to react quickly when things change, but that doesn't mean they should face people who are hyper focused on this style of game play, just because they may not have the tools developed to best cope with this like others have.

    development is always good, but how you do it can mean you made "bad choices" towards certain game modes.

    this was a similar concept back in the day with GW, when you tried to focus too much and got swamped and couldn't progress.

    each game mode has its own little nuances and understanding that can help you be a better player. but expecting to be great at all of them is not something for mere mortals to achieve.

    at no point is anyone saying you shouldn't develop, but you should develop with a plan that doesn't involve blind numbers. TB spread people out, but taking that too far was never a good idea. there is always a balance to strike.

    CG said “it isn’t in the spirit of the game” to not level up characters. That quote was in my initial post.

    Sure...... Except they never said that......
    Not word for word but from what I understood, and OP is right here, CG's intended spirit of the game was that gearing / leveling your roster should be rewarded and encouraged (make deep rosters). The game spirit is that invest in your toons and reap the rewards. To invest in your toons you need to gear them up. To gear them up, you need to level them up. So leveling toons is part of that game spirit

    Its literally in the screenshot in the opening post that investing more deeply in a character should be rewarded and leveling up a toon is investing in that toon but Grand Arena encourages the opposite "only level toons you are absolutely going to use / need to be meta or else you will be outmatched"

    Instead of having a wide roster strength its concentrated group of toons

    No..... It had nothing to do with your roster or this type of game mode and what you keep putting in quotations is incorrect....

    What you are saying about investing in a single chsracter, however, is absolutely correct and more in line with what they actually said...

    There is a very big difference between encouraging players to take a character like zombie and level her to g10 plus and encouraging players to level all of their fluff toons to G8 and never use them.....

    wc58rjt8x81s.jpg

    Yes..... That is specifically in regards to the paper zombie nerf.... If you followed the whole chain of events etc, they specifically stated that no character should perform better if underinvested in.....

    “In general we don’t want players to be better served by underinvesting.”

    That is a general statement of principal, that they stated in order to justify the paper zombie nerf. They didn’t mean it, obviously, but the certainly said it.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
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