Appreciate the thoughtful and constructive responses @Terrorize89 ... we'll just have to agree to disagree on most of that.
Of all of it, the "First Order" / "Republic" / "Resistance" thing made by far the least sense and annoyed me extremely. And I find your comments on Luke completely baffling, but whatever.
Just to be clear, I didn't hate the movie, it was fun to watch and the new characters are interesting. I just found the plot setup and development awful.. really awful. And Rey beating Kylo at the end simply made no sense whatsoever, even if she had received basic training in the Force as a child. It is simply not consistent with ANYTHING in Star Wars before this, unless Kylo is particularly bad at saber duels for some reason. Even then, it was dumb.
Go back and look at the fights between Dooku and Obiwan/Anakin.. he basically tossed them around like rag dolls. Kylo Ren is a guy who could stop a blaster energy bolt in mid-air. He should have beaten her without breaking a sweat.
I described my view of it to a friend this way: "I liked it except for the plot".
I can say one thing about @Terrorize89, he should have produced this because he filled in all the holes JJ and Disney overlooked with personal assumptions that if used, would have given the script clarity on things. Provided you are correct and JJ doesn't nerf your ideas, maybe he can copy and paste your words here into his next script, along with actually putting down his inflated ego to watch the previous six movies he clearly didn't so he can learn something because he's not as good as he thinks he is. How sad, an off the cuff response by you outperforms 3 years of JJs work, be proud @Terrorize89!!!
Very well said Terrorize. I really enjoyed the movie and while there were a few things that bugged me, overall I think it was easily better than any of the prequels.
Better than Phantom Menace even, in your dreams!! Darth Maul and Qui-Gon looked legit, meanwhile, the theater breaks out in laughter when Kylo reveals himself and this unoriginal cut and paste rehash work is better than Episode 1-3, which were unique?? Kylo couldn't handle the Younglings, let alone real Jedi. Imagine Kylo and Rey working together trying to even kill Boba Fett, forget about Jedi. Kylo is no sith and Rey is no Jedi, end of story!!! I'm already imagining JJ making Rey suddenly more powerful than Yoda and Kylo being like Sidious on steroids, should have been "The Farce Awakens"....
Episode 1 was pretty bad. Episode 2 was iffy. Episode 3 is way, WAY better than this thing. JMHO of course.
Ironically, even though I already knew what would happen in Episode 3 because it was a prequel, it was STILL more interesting and original than this rehash.
Very well said Terrorize. I really enjoyed the movie and while there were a few things that bugged me, overall I think it was easily better than any of the prequels.
Appreciate the thoughtful and constructive responses @Terrorize89 ... we'll just have to agree to disagree on most of that.
Of all of it, the "First Order" / "Republic" / "Resistance" thing made by far the least sense and annoyed me extremely. And I find your comments on Luke completely baffling, but whatever.
Just to be clear, I didn't hate the movie, it was fun to watch and the new characters are interesting. I just found the plot setup and development awful.. really awful. And Rey beating Kylo at the end simply made no sense whatsoever, even if she had received basic training in the Force as a child. It is simply not consistent with ANYTHING in Star Wars before this, unless Kylo is particularly bad at saber duels for some reason. Even then, it was dumb.
Go back and look at the fights between Dooku and Obiwan/Anakin.. he basically tossed them around like rag dolls. Kylo Ren is a guy who could stop a blaster energy bolt in mid-air. He should have beaten her without breaking a sweat.
I described my view of it to a friend this way: "I liked it except for the plot".
Yep we should and admittedly most of it is speculation, no matter how logical, until it's down in media format it's not fact. Likewise it's not false I just prefer to have new hope about this trilogy. Though some of it is present in the movie, but hidden well, most likely only there to set up points in epi 8, but can be pieced together if over served closely already. And as I mentioned Star Wars Uprising will answer some of your points, and I believe Snoke makes his debut there, Star Wars Rebels focuses on those three factions too .
As for Rey vs Kylo. It's unsurprising. Rey has likely practiced for years with her staff, whereas Kylo, has likely had no melee experience since killing Luke's other pupils. I'm guessing a lot of backstabbing, coupled with being the top of his class, meant that even that wasn't a big fight, more like Anakin slaughter of younglings. Luke couldn't have been present for that as he'd have easily stopped him. Maybe that's why he feels guilty, because he wasn't there to save them. Snoke clearly has yet to train Kylo himself and other than him, who else could train Kylo in melee combat? Who could he fight other than resistance with blasters? I feel Kylo was hyped up too much for what he actually is, an undertrained Padawan. So Reys staff mastery, verus Kylo's lack of training after falling, its easy to see why Rey won. He was also injured, a blaster shot to the gut let's not forget. However Snoke will likely now fix his lack of training, convinetly in time for Luke to resume Reys training.
As for Luke. Yep it is baffling lol I adore star wars yet hate the first every primary protagonist with a passion. Good thing Star Wars is so vast, easy to love it as a whole while hating Luke. One reason why I prefer the Old Republic era, no Skywalkers.
I can say one thing about @Terrorize89, he should have produced this because he filled in all the holes JJ and Disney overlooked with personal assumptions that if used, would have given the script clarity on things. Provided you are correct and JJ doesn't nerf your ideas, maybe he can copy and paste your words here into his next script, along with actually putting down his inflated ego to watch the previous six movies he clearly didn't so he can learn something because he's not as good as he thinks he is. How sad, an off the cuff response by you outperforms 3 years of JJs work, be proud @Terrorize89!!!
Haha thanks but have faith, there is plenty of time for half the things I mentioned to be used, heck most of the ground work is already there. I'm almost certain that most things will become clear and make more sense with future movies, books, games. Star Wars is a massive universe, far too big to fit into one movie I'm sure we can all agree on that, so understandably it needs to be spread across multiple media's. Even certain story arcs in the originals took 6 movies to finish.
Episode 1 was pretty bad. Episode 2 was iffy. Episode 3 is way, WAY better than this thing. JMHO of course.
Ironically, even though I already knew what would happen in Episode 3 because it was a prequel, it was STILL more interesting and original than this rehash.
On my deathbed, all day long E3 was better. Episode 1 was clearly geared to children which made it least popular but at least it was original and new, not this reboot we didn't need. I was waiting for JJ to pull out the wormhole like Trek to undo Lucas' legacy as he did with Roddenberry.
It's like me rewriting Mozart, repackaging it, changing a few notes and touting it as great. I am certain Lucas thinks this blows, he probably wished he burned the script they **** like ****. Probably contemplating if the couple of billion was worth it right now I'm sure...
As for Rey vs Kylo. It's unsurprising. Rey has likely practiced for years with her staff, whereas Kylo, has likely had no melee experience since killing Luke's other pupils.
Uh, that's kind of a stretch. You're sort of bending over backwards to give benefit of the doubt for the writers here, which is fine, but recall that in your first post you said "Finn is or was a First Order stormtrooper, and as displayed, they have combat training in melee weapons against lightsaber (obviously their role is to kill Luke), so Finn likely received such training, hence some ability with a lightsaber."
The idea that Kylo had "no melee experience" is somewhat silly, I'm afraid.
Haha thanks but have faith, there is plenty of time for half the things I mentioned to be used, heck most of the ground work is already there. I'm almost certain that most things will become clear and make more sense with future movies, books, games. Star Wars is a massive universe, far too big to fit into one movie I'm sure we can all agree on that, so understandably it needs to be spread across multiple media's. Even certain story arcs in the originals took 6 movies to finish.
Let's pray JJ is trolling and has notepad open so he can take those jewels you offered him, he needs the help because JJs ego is like 2Pac and his skills more like Young MC...
As for Rey vs Kylo. It's unsurprising. Rey has likely practiced for years with her staff, whereas Kylo, has likely had no melee experience since killing Luke's other pupils.
Uh, that's kind of a stretch.
Is it though? :P Kylo was in training, he then killed the only other Jedi pupils bar one. The only Jedi left to fight was Luke and clearly that never happened. So how was a fallen in training Jedi, who's barely a padawan, hone his melee combatant skills? He didn't, which clearly showed. Rey on the other hand, would have fought off, and beaten rival scavengers etc with her staff, likely for years.
Is it though? :P Kylo was in training, he then killed the only other Jedi pupils bar one. The only Jedi left to fight was Luke and clearly that never happened. So how was a fallen in training Jedi, who's barely a padawan, hone his melee combatant skills? He didn't, which clearly showed. Rey on the other hand, would have fought off, and beaten rival scavengers etc with her staff, likely for years.
It's not nice to terrorize poor JJ like this with all these great explanations to cover his screw-ups and he's writing this down on paper right now so don't reveal anymore until he humbles himself and gives you salary for all the plot holes you've resolved in minutes that he couldn't resolve with Lucas consulting, 3 years and $200 million dollars...
Is it though? :P Kylo was in training, he then killed the only other Jedi pupils bar one. The only Jedi left to fight was Luke and clearly that never happened. So how was a fallen in training Jedi, who's barely a padawan, hone his melee combatant skills? He didn't, which clearly showed. Rey on the other hand, would have fought off, and beaten rival scavengers etc with her staff, likely for years.
Oh come on. This is beyond a stretch. You are actually saying Finn should have been competent with a light saber because he was a stormtrooper (and not a very good one at that) but Kylo wasn't because he "didn't have enough practice"?
Fighting with a stick is not the same as fighting with a light saber.. at least, in every movie until this one. Even switching forms as an experienced light saber user was not simple and required a LOT of practice, but she magically swapped from a quarterstaff to a one-handed lightsaber against a guy who could stop blaster shots mid-air?
I read a reminder somewhere else that Kylo had been hit by a blaster before this fight. That's the best I can do in terms of giving the writers the benefit of the doubt here. Overall, the scene was ridiculous.
Snuke says it is time to COMPLETE his training.. not begin it. Rey had NO training. The fight was silly.
Please do not forget that, as already stated kylo took a direct hit from chewies weapon to the stomach.
That thing sent people flying without even directly hitting them, just imagine what a direct hit can do to you. Kylo was barely standing when fighting rey.
Is it though? :P Kylo was in training, he then killed the only other Jedi pupils bar one. The only Jedi left to fight was Luke and clearly that never happened. So how was a fallen in training Jedi, who's barely a padawan, hone his melee combatant skills? He didn't, which clearly showed. Rey on the other hand, would have fought off, and beaten rival scavengers etc with her staff, likely for years.
It's not nice to terrorize poor JJ like this with all these great explanations to cover his screw-ups and he's writing this down on paper right now so don't reveal anymore until he humbles himself and gives you salary for all the plot holes you've resolved in minutes that he couldn't resolve with Lucas consulting, 3 years and $200 million dollars...
Lmao thanks, that would be nice, and yes I should definitely touch up any future scripts for clarity.
Is it though? :P Kylo was in training, he then killed the only other Jedi pupils bar one. The only Jedi left to fight was Luke and clearly that never happened. So how was a fallen in training Jedi, who's barely a padawan, hone his melee combatant skills? He didn't, which clearly showed. Rey on the other hand, would have fought off, and beaten rival scavengers etc with her staff, likely for years.
Oh come on. This is beyond a stretch. You are actually saying Finn should have been competent with a light saber because he was a stormtrooper (and not a very good one at that) but Kylo wasn't because he "didn't have enough practice"?
Fighting with a stick is not the same as fighting with a light saber.. at least, in every movie until this one. Even switching forms as an experienced light saber user was not simple and required a LOT of practice, but she magically swapped from a quarterstaff to a one-handed lightsaber against a guy who could stop blaster shots mid-air?
I read a reminder somewhere else that Kylo had been hit by a blaster before this fight. That's the best I can do in terms of giving the writers the benefit of the doubt here. Overall, the scene was ridiculous.
Snuke says it is time to COMPLETE his training.. not begin it. Rey had NO training. The fight was silly.
I'm not saying Finn would be competent, just not completely inexperienced. Given the sort of nature and ideals the first order is based on, I'd expect they go through heavy training on a weekly basis when not on duty/missions etc including melee training, however, do you honestly think, considering the ego Kylo carrys around with him (I will finish what you started), that he'd lower himself to train with Grunts? He tries to intimidate his officers, sometimes rather unsuccessfully, I can't picture him risking them beating his untrained butt in sparring matches, no way. So yeah, even given that she's trained more in two handed than one handed, it's not completely unbelievable that she stood her ground. And yes I mentioned he was injured earlier, by a bowcaster shot no less which the movie makes a point of showing packs quite a punch. So again, not completely unbelievable that he lost.
Correct he did say that, but you can assume he means to finish where Luke had left his training off, not that he has already trained Kylo. Do you think a Sith Lord, if Snoke is one, would allow an untrained apprentice to represent him once he begins training? My guess is Snoke didn't want to train him until he was certain Kylo had fallen as in their first interaction, he still doubts Kylo, which Kylo mentions to Vader mask.
What I was waiting for is Luke to show up sensing Han's demise and telling the kid all the usual Jedi lingo like "I sense good in you", "Your loyalty is to the Resistance", and similarly, cutting him down like a broken toy just as Dooku whooped Anakin in E2 but not killing him, then taking his lightsaber just as Obi-Wan took Anakin's in E3 shunning him as an outcast.
Afterwards, you'd see a scene of him in a hospital getting patched up with robotic limbs like Vader, a passing of the torch so to speak while Snopes finally reveals himself and says "Rest easy my apprentice, vengeance will be ours, maybe a sinister laugh". Now that's an ending, that's Star Wars!!!
Love the original trilogy, tolerated I, felt a little better after II, restored hope with III.
I tried not to anticipate or expect anything with this one (learned from Half Blood Prince, hated it first time because had such a mental picture of what I wanted the movie to be and was severely disappointed).
I love VII, very pleased and excited. Yes, very similar plot/theme and story to IV, but love the new take on the story, the hanging questions, the action scenes, and how elements from EU, now Legend, we're brought in. Disney and Abrams hit a home run imho. I will say a few things I felt were lacking, expected more from Phasma, but maybe saving for later. But overall, didn't detract from my enjoyment.
Kylo is great as an unrefined, uncommitted villain in turmoil between light and dark. Enjoy the parallel with Jacen in Eu/Legend.
Rey is interesting and so many questions. Parallel to Jaina or is she Luke's?
I feel strongly about the Jaina parallel given the comfort and interactions between Rey, the Falcon, Han, and then Leia (the hug seemed motherly). Seriously, it was no accident the Falcon was on Jakku, in a junk yard, yet somehow superbly functional...lol Either way, really excited to learn her story. I did enjoy the strong female lead with let go of my hand and then Han reacting to her like a guy when she has the girly grin about fixing the Falcon. Pick which way you want it sweetheart...lol
Poe is severely OP in an Xwing, made Luke and the Rogues look like crop dusters...lol
Finn is intriguing, curious to see how he develops and plays out.
Why is 3PO's arm red?
How, who recovered the lightsaber lost at Cloud City (maybe they cloned Rey using DNA from the hand...lol)?
I understand if someone disagrees and has a different opinion about the movie.
I'll just say this, many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view....lol
Looking forward to seeing where the story goes and what questions get answered in VIII and subsequent movies.
Appreciate the thoughtful and constructive responses @Terrorize89 ... we'll just have to agree to disagree on most of that.
Of all of it, the "First Order" / "Republic" / "Resistance" thing made by far the least sense and annoyed me extremely. And I find your comments on Luke completely baffling, but whatever.
Just to be clear, I didn't hate the movie, it was fun to watch and the new characters are interesting. I just found the plot setup and development awful.. really awful. And Rey beating Kylo at the end simply made no sense whatsoever, even if she had received basic training in the Force as a child. It is simply not consistent with ANYTHING in Star Wars before this, unless Kylo is particularly bad at saber duels for some reason. Even then, it was dumb.
Go back and look at the fights between Dooku and Obiwan/Anakin.. he basically tossed them around like rag dolls. Kylo Ren is a guy who could stop a blaster energy bolt in mid-air. He should have beaten her without breaking a sweat.
I described my view of it to a friend this way: "I liked it except for the plot".
I get what you're saying about Kylo. But he was injurred when fighting Rey, who was a skilled fighter with a staff. That shot from Chewie and subsequent injury would have distracted many Jedi/Sith and limit their other abilities. So perfectly understandable how Rey prevails in a sword fight and why Kylo didn't/couldn't resort to more force based attacks.
Also, Ren's lightsaber looked crude, ancient, undisciplined to the refined, controlled elegance of Rey's Skywalker legacy blade. The difference in sabers is clearly symbolic to the different discipline, access, and use of the force.
Force power compared to previous movies. Vader in IV - VI doesn't compare to Vader in III. Luke is trash compared to Jedi in I - III yet managed to beat Vader. Saber duels in the prequels were much more elaborate than original trilogy. I thoroughly enjoyed the duel between Kylo and Rey, felt more like the simple sword fights in the originals.
As for the plot, they were trying to recapture the heart of the originals. Many of the EU/Legend books seem to do the same thing in books set after ROTJ. Honestly, plot wise, I was expecting something like this given Abrams and Star Trek revamp.
No spoiler here but the film really ticked me off. Certainly the worst of the series. On the bright side, Phantom Menace just moved up the list....
Wow, I am glad I am not the only one! I was very disappointed in pretty much all aspects other than enjoying the new characters and action scenes.
The best part of the movie is that we got the characters to use here in SWGOH. It's funny, Kylo is more of a threat here than in the movie. Go to IMDB and look at the reviews, we're certainly not alone by a mile. The only ones who will like this movie is non-fans who didn't see the original six...
I saw the first movie in theater in 1977, did you? I enjoyed the hell out of the new movie. Don't be so arrogant as to think you set the bar for judging who like this movie and who doesn't.
Luke pulled a Yoda, plain and simple. Yoda hid in the swamps after losing to Sidious.
It's all a fun discussion. I loved the movie and can't wait for 8.
I understand why some wouldn't.
Just take the debate about Barriss to demonstrate vastly differing opinions on same subject...lol
Yoda had a reason to hide -- he was being hunted down immediately after the Sith had taken over and nearly all the other Jedi destroyed. Luke didn't, at least not as it is portrayed in the movie. They made him seem like a sulky child, IMO.
As for Abrams, I didn't know he did this as I was deliberately avoiding all information about it before the release. In retrospect it makes sense. I'm starting to dread seeing his name.
This film was not a "homage". It was utterly lacking in originality.
Think the rolling story at the beginning mentioned First Order was hunting him, hence the attack to recover the map.
Yes, but the roll also says first that he "disappeared" and that the First Order "rose from the ashes in his absence". My annoyance with the movie began there.
Just want to point out some things, first of all when Finn 1st used the light saber he fought a trooper who used a melee weapon so I would assume he had some training in those type of weapons. As others have said Kylo was shot with a bow caster which was shown throughout the movie as extremely powerful so he was injured badly, not to mention Finn didn't really do much and was defeated easily. Kylo wasn't really trying to kill Rey since Snoke wanted her and when he had the advantage told her he could train her in the force. At that point she remembered what Maz had said and closed her eyes to feel the force at which point she did kick some ****, kind of like Luke did at the end of episode 4 hearing Ben and using the force.
If I see one more **** attacking a Jedi with a blaster pistol, then I'll kill them myself!
Think the rolling story at the beginning mentioned First Order was hunting him, hence the attack to recover the map.
Yes, but the roll also says first that he "disappeared" and that the First Order "rose from the ashes in his absence". My annoyance with the movie began there.
Just have to wait and see what happened.
Maybe just got fed up with the galaxy staying unsaved and kept getting into messes he was asked to clean up...lol
The empire certainly flourished with Yoda in exile. But he certainly had a "higher" purpose. Maybe the same holds true for Luke, just have to wait and see what the deal is.
His choice of exile vs a swamp or desert made me chuckle.
The movie was real good best one so far right next to revenge of the sith
I'm kind of leaning toward VII being my favorite. Having a hard time bumping ROTJ bc of childhood nostalgia. I'd definitely say I liked VII as much as IV and V
My previous order was:
1. ROTJ, first one I saw and first movie I ever saw in a theatre as a child.
1a. V, one word, Yoda.
1b. IV, second one I saw but didn't have Yoda...lol
2. Clone Wars movie, Ahsoka, her story and fit as Anakin's padawan pre-Vader brought a lot of intrigue.
3. ROTS, only because HC brought it down a little imo. Really enjoyed the story of Vader's creation, had a greater appreciation for and understanding of the character. Men will do some crazy stuff for the woman they love, no matter how misguided..lol
Of course, II and I respectively.
Yoda and Windu in II make it slightly better than I, imo.
I wanted to leave the theatre halfway through. No magic, no original storytelling, just a blatant rehash by that hack Abrams. Nostalgia and pop culture references for the plebs.
@Terrorize89 you actually blew my mind about Rey, I'm far more content with the movie now...just need to wait for 8 for the official explanations and seeing Kylo turning into a great villain haha
Thank you sir
I could never understand how Kylo got shot by Chewbacca when earlier, he could take a blast shot and hold it mid-air as if it was harmless. Remember, Kylo started out bad-**** and ended as a sniveling brat who couldn't fight. It's those plot holes and inconsistencies that made the film the worst, not to mention the unoriginal rip-off of the original trilogy
Replies
Of all of it, the "First Order" / "Republic" / "Resistance" thing made by far the least sense and annoyed me extremely. And I find your comments on Luke completely baffling, but whatever.
Just to be clear, I didn't hate the movie, it was fun to watch and the new characters are interesting. I just found the plot setup and development awful.. really awful. And Rey beating Kylo at the end simply made no sense whatsoever, even if she had received basic training in the Force as a child. It is simply not consistent with ANYTHING in Star Wars before this, unless Kylo is particularly bad at saber duels for some reason. Even then, it was dumb.
Go back and look at the fights between Dooku and Obiwan/Anakin.. he basically tossed them around like rag dolls. Kylo Ren is a guy who could stop a blaster energy bolt in mid-air. He should have beaten her without breaking a sweat.
I described my view of it to a friend this way: "I liked it except for the plot".
Better than Phantom Menace even, in your dreams!! Darth Maul and Qui-Gon looked legit, meanwhile, the theater breaks out in laughter when Kylo reveals himself and this unoriginal cut and paste rehash work is better than Episode 1-3, which were unique?? Kylo couldn't handle the Younglings, let alone real Jedi. Imagine Kylo and Rey working together trying to even kill Boba Fett, forget about Jedi. Kylo is no sith and Rey is no Jedi, end of story!!! I'm already imagining JJ making Rey suddenly more powerful than Yoda and Kylo being like Sidious on steroids, should have been "The Farce Awakens"....
Ironically, even though I already knew what would happen in Episode 3 because it was a prequel, it was STILL more interesting and original than this rehash.
Thanks
Yep we should
As for Rey vs Kylo. It's unsurprising. Rey has likely practiced for years with her staff, whereas Kylo, has likely had no melee experience since killing Luke's other pupils. I'm guessing a lot of backstabbing, coupled with being the top of his class, meant that even that wasn't a big fight, more like Anakin slaughter of younglings. Luke couldn't have been present for that as he'd have easily stopped him. Maybe that's why he feels guilty, because he wasn't there to save them. Snoke clearly has yet to train Kylo himself and other than him, who else could train Kylo in melee combat? Who could he fight other than resistance with blasters? I feel Kylo was hyped up too much for what he actually is, an undertrained Padawan. So Reys staff mastery, verus Kylo's lack of training after falling, its easy to see why Rey won. He was also injured, a blaster shot to the gut let's not forget. However Snoke will likely now fix his lack of training, convinetly in time for Luke to resume Reys training.
As for Luke. Yep it is baffling lol I adore star wars yet hate the first every primary protagonist with a passion. Good thing Star Wars is so vast, easy to love it as a whole while hating Luke. One reason why I prefer the Old Republic era, no Skywalkers.
Haha thanks
On my deathbed, all day long E3 was better. Episode 1 was clearly geared to children which made it least popular but at least it was original and new, not this reboot we didn't need. I was waiting for JJ to pull out the wormhole like Trek to undo Lucas' legacy as he did with Roddenberry.
It's like me rewriting Mozart, repackaging it, changing a few notes and touting it as great. I am certain Lucas thinks this blows, he probably wished he burned the script they **** like ****. Probably contemplating if the couple of billion was worth it right now I'm sure...
Uh, that's kind of a stretch.
The idea that Kylo had "no melee experience" is somewhat silly, I'm afraid.
Let's pray JJ is trolling and has notepad open so he can take those jewels you offered him, he needs the help because JJs ego is like 2Pac and his skills more like Young MC...
Is it though? :P Kylo was in training, he then killed the only other Jedi pupils bar one. The only Jedi left to fight was Luke and clearly that never happened. So how was a fallen in training Jedi, who's barely a padawan, hone his melee combatant skills? He didn't, which clearly showed. Rey on the other hand, would have fought off, and beaten rival scavengers etc with her staff, likely for years.
Yo JJ, read this before writing that next script!!!
It's not nice to terrorize poor JJ like this with all these great explanations to cover his screw-ups and he's writing this down on paper right now so don't reveal anymore until he humbles himself and gives you salary for all the plot holes you've resolved in minutes that he couldn't resolve with Lucas consulting, 3 years and $200 million dollars...
Oh come on. This is beyond a stretch. You are actually saying Finn should have been competent with a light saber because he was a stormtrooper (and not a very good one at that) but Kylo wasn't because he "didn't have enough practice"?
Fighting with a stick is not the same as fighting with a light saber.. at least, in every movie until this one. Even switching forms as an experienced light saber user was not simple and required a LOT of practice, but she magically swapped from a quarterstaff to a one-handed lightsaber against a guy who could stop blaster shots mid-air?
I read a reminder somewhere else that Kylo had been hit by a blaster before this fight. That's the best I can do in terms of giving the writers the benefit of the doubt here. Overall, the scene was ridiculous.
Snuke says it is time to COMPLETE his training.. not begin it. Rey had NO training. The fight was silly.
That thing sent people flying without even directly hitting them, just imagine what a direct hit can do to you. Kylo was barely standing when fighting rey.
Lmao thanks, that would be nice, and yes I should definitely touch up any future scripts for clarity.
I'm not saying Finn would be competent, just not completely inexperienced. Given the sort of nature and ideals the first order is based on, I'd expect they go through heavy training on a weekly basis when not on duty/missions etc including melee training, however, do you honestly think, considering the ego Kylo carrys around with him (I will finish what you started), that he'd lower himself to train with Grunts? He tries to intimidate his officers, sometimes rather unsuccessfully, I can't picture him risking them beating his untrained butt in sparring matches, no way. So yeah, even given that she's trained more in two handed than one handed, it's not completely unbelievable that she stood her ground. And yes
Correct he did say that, but you can assume he means to finish where Luke had left his training off, not that he has already trained Kylo. Do you think a Sith Lord, if Snoke is one, would allow an untrained apprentice to represent him once he begins training? My guess is Snoke didn't want to train him until he was certain Kylo had fallen as in their first interaction, he still doubts Kylo, which Kylo mentions to Vader mask.
Afterwards, you'd see a scene of him in a hospital getting patched up with robotic limbs like Vader, a passing of the torch so to speak while Snopes finally reveals himself and says "Rest easy my apprentice, vengeance will be ours, maybe a sinister laugh". Now that's an ending, that's Star Wars!!!
I tried not to anticipate or expect anything with this one (learned from Half Blood Prince, hated it first time because had such a mental picture of what I wanted the movie to be and was severely disappointed).
I love VII, very pleased and excited. Yes, very similar plot/theme and story to IV, but love the new take on the story, the hanging questions, the action scenes, and how elements from EU, now Legend, we're brought in. Disney and Abrams hit a home run imho. I will say a few things I felt were lacking, expected more from Phasma, but maybe saving for later. But overall, didn't detract from my enjoyment.
Kylo is great as an unrefined, uncommitted villain in turmoil between light and dark. Enjoy the parallel with Jacen in Eu/Legend.
Rey is interesting and so many questions. Parallel to Jaina or is she Luke's?
I feel strongly about the Jaina parallel given the comfort and interactions between Rey, the Falcon, Han, and then Leia (the hug seemed motherly). Seriously, it was no accident the Falcon was on Jakku, in a junk yard, yet somehow superbly functional...lol Either way, really excited to learn her story. I did enjoy the strong female lead with let go of my hand and then Han reacting to her like a guy when she has the girly grin about fixing the Falcon. Pick which way you want it sweetheart...lol
Poe is severely OP in an Xwing, made Luke and the Rogues look like crop dusters...lol
Finn is intriguing, curious to see how he develops and plays out.
Why is 3PO's arm red?
How, who recovered the lightsaber lost at Cloud City (maybe they cloned Rey using DNA from the hand...lol)?
I understand if someone disagrees and has a different opinion about the movie.
I'll just say this, many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view....lol
Looking forward to seeing where the story goes and what questions get answered in VIII and subsequent movies.
I get what you're saying about Kylo. But he was injurred when fighting Rey, who was a skilled fighter with a staff. That shot from Chewie and subsequent injury would have distracted many Jedi/Sith and limit their other abilities. So perfectly understandable how Rey prevails in a sword fight and why Kylo didn't/couldn't resort to more force based attacks.
Also, Ren's lightsaber looked crude, ancient, undisciplined to the refined, controlled elegance of Rey's Skywalker legacy blade. The difference in sabers is clearly symbolic to the different discipline, access, and use of the force.
Force power compared to previous movies. Vader in IV - VI doesn't compare to Vader in III. Luke is trash compared to Jedi in I - III yet managed to beat Vader. Saber duels in the prequels were much more elaborate than original trilogy. I thoroughly enjoyed the duel between Kylo and Rey, felt more like the simple sword fights in the originals.
As for the plot, they were trying to recapture the heart of the originals. Many of the EU/Legend books seem to do the same thing in books set after ROTJ. Honestly, plot wise, I was expecting something like this given Abrams and Star Trek revamp.
I saw the first movie in theater in 1977, did you? I enjoyed the hell out of the new movie. Don't be so arrogant as to think you set the bar for judging who like this movie and who doesn't.
It's all a fun discussion. I loved the movie and can't wait for 8.
I understand why some wouldn't.
Just take the debate about Barriss to demonstrate vastly differing opinions on same subject...lol
As for Abrams, I didn't know he did this as I was deliberately avoiding all information about it before the release. In retrospect it makes sense. I'm starting to dread seeing his name.
This film was not a "homage". It was utterly lacking in originality.
Yes, but the roll also says first that he "disappeared" and that the First Order "rose from the ashes in his absence". My annoyance with the movie began there.
Just have to wait and see what happened.
Maybe just got fed up with the galaxy staying unsaved and kept getting into messes he was asked to clean up...lol
The empire certainly flourished with Yoda in exile. But he certainly had a "higher" purpose. Maybe the same holds true for Luke, just have to wait and see what the deal is.
His choice of exile vs a swamp or desert made me chuckle.
I'm kind of leaning toward VII being my favorite. Having a hard time bumping ROTJ bc of childhood nostalgia. I'd definitely say I liked VII as much as IV and V
My previous order was:
1. ROTJ, first one I saw and first movie I ever saw in a theatre as a child.
1a. V, one word, Yoda.
1b. IV, second one I saw but didn't have Yoda...lol
2. Clone Wars movie, Ahsoka, her story and fit as Anakin's padawan pre-Vader brought a lot of intrigue.
3. ROTS, only because HC brought it down a little imo. Really enjoyed the story of Vader's creation, had a greater appreciation for and understanding of the character. Men will do some crazy stuff for the woman they love, no matter how misguided..lol
Of course, II and I respectively.
Yoda and Windu in II make it slightly better than I, imo.
I wanted to leave the theatre halfway through. No magic, no original storytelling, just a blatant rehash by that hack Abrams. Nostalgia and pop culture references for the plebs.
It was the very definition of a polished ****.
Thank you sir