People leave because CG has tied individual success with guild success. I’ve played other mmo’s before and pvp success seemed to be separate from pve success. I could take top end pve gear into pvp and do ok, but I couldn’t compete against those with top end pvp gear. The reverse was true as well.
For me in this game, I’ve been huge on ships (first every day since before it paid crystals), but not so much on raids. When g12+ came out, people just put a few of those items on pilots and would easily beat my maxed out (minus g12+) fleet despite having many other pilots in their fleet far from g12.
If CG were to decouple individual and guild success somewhat, it would prevent a lot of guilds from breaking.
I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment.
I would rather not see parts of this game gated by a guild check. I'm comfortable with p2p folks progressing faster than f2p, I'm comfortable with dedicated players progressing faster than casual player and I'm comfortable with players in large guilds progressing faster than those in smaller guilds. But please don't put hard caps on any of these groups of players.
I understand that G12 finishers will be available outside of the Genosian TB, and I thank CG for this (though we don't really know how hard a farm this will be yet so I'll reserve judgement). However without the G12+ pieces which are currently locked behind HSTR (and have been for over a year now), they cannot progress characters to G13, and lets face it this is going to be the same people locked out of Genosis. Players/Guilds not at the required power levels need to be able to advance their rosters so they can achieve these goals, please push the G12+ pieces into lower tiers of the STR (like I believe happens in the other raids with raid only gear? Exclusive shards and more items are reward enough).
TL;DR Being in a smaller guild should "slow" your progress not cap it.
If i was a dev that knew my content would make guilds fall apart and ppl quit for that matter,i would be ashamed of myself and my work.Yeah i know i can sound a little harsh,but its what i believe.
How would you create new content that corrects human nature?
For that matter how do you create content that would have an incentive to grow and be difficult and have better rewards than previous content or new rewards, and at the same time not make people want to do better/get better rewards?
What you are saying is not harsh towards the devs, it naive and unrealistic in any sense. The dev team did not make content that would break up guilds, they made content that the player base will want. Players making the personal choice to leave is on them.
I will give you an example to see why so many complains on forums and on reddit.They make only decisions where the gap from f2p to p2w players keep increasing,ofc you will have hard time to make content for everyone.You see where this is going i bet,games that want to have a healthy population try to balance things out with every update,trying to close the gap,i am not saying there shoudnt be a gap,but not this huge one.Even making new shards,which is great Top players,fight Top players,middle middle and low fight vs low ppl,there is still a mismatching at TB,like our last fight.
Now this new g13 finisher will only make things even worse,even at same gp,roster,composition of your team,that 1 item will be the deciding factor who wins.Why the need to make such op new gear item?Look what happened when revan came out,his abilities is like a small essay.
So what could be done?Why not make the geonosis TB tiered like the raids?My guild is only doing t6 of sith,we farm the other ones,am i complaining?Hell no for this,becouse at least i get to do,see,enjoy that part of the game.
Thier is a tier system in TB, Hoth is the lower tier.
They also released all the gear that will be needed to make progress to other locations.
The gap is only made wider by spending, there are many F2P that are in the 2-3M range and will be able to complete high enough star counts to make the jump worth while.
New players who are below the cusp, are a different story but still have access to all the gear and toons to make progress, yes they are further off the end game content but that will always be the case when compared to older players. This game is built on time spent, older players will be ahead of them. This is ok because they dont compete with them, unless they choose to.
Kyno I know no matter what is said you can't agree and I respect that. I also want you to respect that what I posted was to open some eyes because I want this game to succeed and continue. The path this game is going down may lead to it's downfall. I do not want whales to go away I rely on them so I don't have to give more than my $50 a year. However most people are happy with those whales buying there way into early access. They can go ahead and spend $500 to have a character at 7* today when I will get them there in 4 months. this is the reason why CG does not reshuffle arena shards so those who have spent the money remain dominant and are rewarded. However it is a slippery slope when content is controlled too much. The developers pushing their love of KOTOR onto us was bad, making them so meta that you had to get them or suffer was worse and broke the game. Now how I see it G13 was brought in to try to even things out and make other toons/factions more competition for these Old Republic teams. However a day 1 player can get a Reven in a short amount of time but to get other characters to G13 to compete with that Revan could take years. Now maybe I am wrong and these new gear pieces will be easy enough to get and all will be right in the world but I do not see that happening with recent history of the game. I love this game have been playing it for years even though I am not a 1st year player. My life revolves around collecting to energy and freeing up time for when events occur or my guild does raids. However if someone asked my if they should start I would have to tell them warnings first. Are you competitive and want to be near the top in the game? If yes are you prepared to spend $1000's of dollars? If no then realize that it will take you years playing everyday to catch up to today's content and by then you will be behind on all the new content so you can never catch up. You cannot play alone your success in the game will rely heavily on other people. Are you prepared to use people then toss them aside to further your own game? if you answered no to any of these things then this game is not for you so do not even download it. If you are still game just remember unless you are spending the $1000's the creators of the game don't care about you. the Game has adopted the Trump mentality that as long as they and all their rich friends get everything they want nothing else maters and you should be happy living in their shadow.
Its started to happen in my guild i had 2 guys leave today and another is about to leave. Ive been GL since guilds came out and to the same guild i have members who joined on that first day still here. They are true team players who stick it out no matter what the outcome is. We are based on freindship and loyalty and respect.
Its started to happen in my guild i had 2 guys leave today and another is about to leave. Ive been GL since guilds came out and to the same guild i have members who joined on that first day still here. They are true team players who stick it out no matter what the outcome is. We are based on freindship and loyalty and respect.
Then it's always in your best interest to keep finding people that are like-minded individuals. My guild for example is built completely on fun, friendship and comradery. So when this new TB was announced I was not worried about losing anyone. All for one and one for all.
If you lose people because of this, then that's a blessing and not a curse. Because now you can fill that void with what matches your guild's root character.
Here's to hoping you find some good people to replace them! I'm sure you will.
I left my guild after our second failed HSTR attempt when we couldn't even get to P2. People just weren't farming for JTR. Our leader was mostly MIA and I was doing all the heavy lift in terms of running raids and kicking people for breaking rules. TW and TB were both a mess in terms of organization. This was roughly three months ago. I just got Traya to 7* this week. I wish I would have left sooner. My old guild leader hasn't been on in over four months now. My old guild is down to less than 20 players from being a full guild. I like the old guild, but it was holding me back too much to stay with it.
If you lose people because of this, then that's a blessing and not a curse. Because now you can fill that void with what matches your guild's root character.
Here's to hoping you find some good people to replace them! I'm sure you will.
This is A LOT easier said then done. It is a dog eat dog world they have produced and if you have lost a 3 Million GP player you will be lucky to fill it with a 2 Million GP player. When someone posts they are looking for a new guild on the forum in minutes they have multiple offers and the higher GP guild almost always wins. Just like life the rich get richer the middle class is shrinking and the lower class fights for the scraps.
If you lose people because of this, then that's a blessing and not a curse. Because now you can fill that void with what matches your guild's root character.
Here's to hoping you find some good people to replace them! I'm sure you will.
This is A LOT easier said then done. It is a dog eat dog world they have produced and if you have lost a 3 Million GP player you will be lucky to fill it with a 2 Million GP player. When someone posts they are looking for a new guild on the forum in minutes they have multiple offers and the higher GP guild almost always wins. Just like life the rich get richer the middle class is shrinking and the lower class fights for the scraps.
I know I know. I suffered from this exact same thing a year ago when the Sith raid was introduced. It's not good. But considering the morals that that person's guild follows, this is still a blessing not necessarily in disguise.
Kyno I know no matter what is said you can't agree and I respect that. I also want you to respect that what I posted was to open some eyes because I want this game to succeed and continue. The path this game is going down may lead to it's downfall. I do not want whales to go away I rely on them so I don't have to give more than my $50 a year. However most people are happy with those whales buying there way into early access. They can go ahead and spend $500 to have a character at 7* today when I will get them there in 4 months. this is the reason why CG does not reshuffle arena shards so those who have spent the money remain dominant and are rewarded. However it is a slippery slope when content is controlled too much. The developers pushing their love of KOTOR onto us was bad, making them so meta that you had to get them or suffer was worse and broke the game. Now how I see it G13 was brought in to try to even things out and make other toons/factions more competition for these Old Republic teams. However a day 1 player can get a Reven in a short amount of time but to get other characters to G13 to compete with that Revan could take years. Now maybe I am wrong and these new gear pieces will be easy enough to get and all will be right in the world but I do not see that happening with recent history of the game. I love this game have been playing it for years even though I am not a 1st year player. My life revolves around collecting to energy and freeing up time for when events occur or my guild does raids. However if someone asked my if they should start I would have to tell them warnings first. Are you competitive and want to be near the top in the game? If yes are you prepared to spend $1000's of dollars? If no then realize that it will take you years playing everyday to catch up to today's content and by then you will be behind on all the new content so you can never catch up. You cannot play alone your success in the game will rely heavily on other people. Are you prepared to use people then toss them aside to further your own game? if you answered no to any of these things then this game is not for you so do not even download it. If you are still game just remember unless you are spending the $1000's the creators of the game don't care about you. the Game has adopted the Trump mentality that as long as they and all their rich friends get everything they want nothing else maters and you should be happy living in their shadow.
I could agree, if I did, but i dont.
Can you break down your timeline for years to develop a G13 team, or how many teams?
The way arena was handled has nothing to do with G13 or breaking up guilds. I agree it shouldnt be so tightly managed, but it's hard in the same breath to say you want whales, and that they shouldn't be given an advantage that they are paying for.
Many players are here having fun and are doing it for free. There are even ones that claim they have done it either f2p or low budget and are competitive and liking it. Your bleak view, while not the solely yours, doesnt represent the player base entirely. What you say about the dev team is just not true, but I'm not going to convince you otherwise. It's much easier to be negative and jump on that bandwagon then to look at the other side and see the light. Just an FYI, G12 stuff being more accessible, G13 being not blocked by the Geo TB, and the protection upgrade, just to name a few, didnt need to be done and if they didnt care wouldnt have been.
They make new content, this content will be easier with a higher GP, this is the case for any content.
They placed a value on the minimum and have explained that even those at the minimum will have a hard time getting meaningful rewards.
So they should not make new content? Or they should not make hard content?
How would either of those be good for the game?
Players leaving a guild is a personal choice they make and is not forced upon them by anyone.
Except you are completely ignoring the context of the game they are playing. Yes, there was pressure for the best players to leave thier guilds for better guilds, but it's now a near requirement for them to leave to progress. Gated entry, gated rewards, gated progression.
Maybe leaving was a choice before, but now it's near mandatory. And, CG controls that context, not players.
They want to break up huilds because they never wanted guilds in the first place. You all forming guilds was your prerogative, not CG's will.
I think you are getting things mixed up, guilds were created by CG then made pretty much mandatory when they released TB and characters like Hermit Yoda were only available to those that did them.
Now Shard Chats are completely out of CG's control and I refuse to join them as they are the equivalent of a Mafia controlled neighborhood. Telling people when they need to set their payout who they can or cannot attack. I have even heard examples of the shard chats gambling on who can keep 1st the longest. these are not formed by CG but guilds are there for CG content and if they never wanted them they would not have put them in the game.
Kyno I know no matter what is said you can't agree and I respect that. I also want you to respect that what I posted was to open some eyes because I want this game to succeed and continue. The path this game is going down may lead to it's downfall. I do not want whales to go away I rely on them so I don't have to give more than my $50 a year. However most people are happy with those whales buying there way into early access. They can go ahead and spend $500 to have a character at 7* today when I will get them there in 4 months. this is the reason why CG does not reshuffle arena shards so those who have spent the money remain dominant and are rewarded. However it is a slippery slope when content is controlled too much. The developers pushing their love of KOTOR onto us was bad, making them so meta that you had to get them or suffer was worse and broke the game. Now how I see it G13 was brought in to try to even things out and make other toons/factions more competition for these Old Republic teams. However a day 1 player can get a Reven in a short amount of time but to get other characters to G13 to compete with that Revan could take years. Now maybe I am wrong and these new gear pieces will be easy enough to get and all will be right in the world but I do not see that happening with recent history of the game. I love this game have been playing it for years even though I am not a 1st year player. My life revolves around collecting to energy and freeing up time for when events occur or my guild does raids. However if someone asked my if they should start I would have to tell them warnings first. Are you competitive and want to be near the top in the game? If yes are you prepared to spend $1000's of dollars? If no then realize that it will take you years playing everyday to catch up to today's content and by then you will be behind on all the new content so you can never catch up. You cannot play alone your success in the game will rely heavily on other people. Are you prepared to use people then toss them aside to further your own game? if you answered no to any of these things then this game is not for you so do not even download it. If you are still game just remember unless you are spending the $1000's the creators of the game don't care about you. the Game has adopted the Trump mentality that as long as they and all their rich friends get everything they want nothing else maters and you should be happy living in their shadow.
I could agree, if I did, but i dont.
Can you break down your timeline for years to develop a G13 team, or how many teams?
The way arena was handled has nothing to do with G13 or breaking up guilds. I agree it shouldnt be so tightly managed, but it's hard in the same breath to say you want whales, and that they shouldn't be given an advantage that they are paying for.
Many players are here having fun and are doing it for free. There are even ones that claim they have done it either f2p or low budget and are competitive and liking it. Your bleak view, while not the solely yours, doesnt represent the player base entirely. What you say about the dev team is just not true, but I'm not going to convince you otherwise. It's much easier to be negative and jump on that bandwagon then to look at the other side and see the light. Just an FYI, G12 stuff being more accessible, G13 being not blocked by the Geo TB, and the protection upgrade, just to name a few, didnt need to be done and if they didnt care wouldnt have been.
Full disclosure. House much do you get paid to pass the kool-aid drinking sentiment along as that of a normal player. Do the people that don't frequent this forum know that you fervently defend CG because you have a vested interest?
Maybe leaving was a choice before, but now it's near mandatory. And, CG controls that context, not players.
It's still a choice.
I personally don't really see what could be enough reason to stay before, but isn't anymore now.
Exactly. Grand Arena Championships should really be viewed as the new Arena. If people are leaving to "stay competitive" they're going to have their worlds flipped upside on them in the next couple months.
They're really just being selfish. Especially those who have been in long established guilds. Good riddance I say to anyone who jumps ship. They belong in a league all their own.... Just not the kyber league.
They make new content, this content will be easier with a higher GP, this is the case for any content.
They placed a value on the minimum and have explained that even those at the minimum will have a hard time getting meaningful rewards.
So they should not make new content? Or they should not make hard content?
How would either of those be good for the game?
Players leaving a guild is a personal choice they make and is not forced upon them by anyone.
Sure and your post directly outlines why this game has declined in popularity and sales. Their decisions are only focused around the tip of the spear and those that follow.
So screw the new player....they get nothing so they vet to keep playing the same stale game for maybe 2 years or a little less until they start finally getting some of the decent teams farmed. No OTHER game does this that I know of. Keep ignoring and choking out the new player and soon their will be none but the steady decline of current playerbase which as we see is at all time low.
Only the top gets new content not anybody else. No CG should be making a well rounded experience for THEIR whole customer base not just the top 1%.
You guys dropped the hard nodes attempt and the reasoning was new players were progressing too fast. News flash every game as old as this one has done that repeatedly. They have gone back time and time again rebalance the early game to give the new gamers a faster time to catch up with the vets. It is the only way you will retain new players. Clash of Clans has repeatedly done it multiple times. I have played that game since the beginning and the new players don't have near the hold backs we did like 4hr hero regen times and 2 week build times for TH10. Now all those times have been reduced to allow them to catch up with the vets faster.
Some may argue well we had to do it so should they but that is blind outlook and will lead to the death of any long term game. If you keep stretching the goal posts but never allowing them quicker plays to catch up new and med player retention goes down the drain as well as potential customers.
This game should have been restructuring far more then they have to make beginning and mid game faster and faster. They haven't they have slowly made changes here and there but it is still a slog. The gear grind for toons that have been out 3+ is insufferable and the grind for quite a few of the toons itself is as well. ANY other game that had made this much money would have already been making strides to do this but CG seems to think if doesn't look broke don't fix it. Well decline in sales and players should tell you something is definitely broke. The released the Revans just to get up earnings. So it looks to me they intend to bleed the whales for as long as they can and then we will probably see SWGOH 2 since that seems to be EAs modus operandi.
They want to break up huilds because they never wanted guilds in the first place. You all forming guilds was your prerogative, not CG's will.
Er....what?
Guilds wouldn't exist if CG didn't put them (and related content) in the game.
Guilds existed before CG put them in the game.
How so? I wasn't around, but if they weren't in the game, what was the point? There would be no currency, no events, nothing that has anything to do with a guild.
They want to break up huilds because they never wanted guilds in the first place. You all forming guilds was your prerogative, not CG's will.
Er....what?
Guilds wouldn't exist if CG didn't put them (and related content) in the game.
Guilds existed before CG put them in the game.
How so? I wasn't around, but if they weren't in the game, what was the point? There would be no currency, no events, nothing that has anything to do with a guild.
It was rather obvious guilds would be a thing. I was in a guild at day 1 too due to migration from CGs previous game. At that state it's much harder to learn the game by yourself than in a guild...especially if you are of competetive mindset. And TI came into being by top krakens of the day on the forums to wreck all. People hated them due to few vocal ones parading around. They are still the top dog, just radio silent. Didn't take that long for CG to make guilds and release rancy. That was evidently their plan all along, just didn't want to burn content too fast as we were still building the minimal stuff to play the game with.
Replies
He's not saying *all* the players go to 1 team. But the best players leave for greener pastures all the time.
I think you don't understand the analogy if you think it's a bad one.
I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment.
I would rather not see parts of this game gated by a guild check. I'm comfortable with p2p folks progressing faster than f2p, I'm comfortable with dedicated players progressing faster than casual player and I'm comfortable with players in large guilds progressing faster than those in smaller guilds. But please don't put hard caps on any of these groups of players.
I understand that G12 finishers will be available outside of the Genosian TB, and I thank CG for this (though we don't really know how hard a farm this will be yet so I'll reserve judgement). However without the G12+ pieces which are currently locked behind HSTR (and have been for over a year now), they cannot progress characters to G13, and lets face it this is going to be the same people locked out of Genosis. Players/Guilds not at the required power levels need to be able to advance their rosters so they can achieve these goals, please push the G12+ pieces into lower tiers of the STR (like I believe happens in the other raids with raid only gear? Exclusive shards and more items are reward enough).
TL;DR Being in a smaller guild should "slow" your progress not cap it.
Thier is a tier system in TB, Hoth is the lower tier.
They also released all the gear that will be needed to make progress to other locations.
The gap is only made wider by spending, there are many F2P that are in the 2-3M range and will be able to complete high enough star counts to make the jump worth while.
New players who are below the cusp, are a different story but still have access to all the gear and toons to make progress, yes they are further off the end game content but that will always be the case when compared to older players. This game is built on time spent, older players will be ahead of them. This is ok because they dont compete with them, unless they choose to.
All ways seems to be when fresh content is coming that ppl jump ship the most
Then it's always in your best interest to keep finding people that are like-minded individuals. My guild for example is built completely on fun, friendship and comradery. So when this new TB was announced I was not worried about losing anyone. All for one and one for all.
If you lose people because of this, then that's a blessing and not a curse. Because now you can fill that void with what matches your guild's root character.
Here's to hoping you find some good people to replace them! I'm sure you will.
This is A LOT easier said then done. It is a dog eat dog world they have produced and if you have lost a 3 Million GP player you will be lucky to fill it with a 2 Million GP player. When someone posts they are looking for a new guild on the forum in minutes they have multiple offers and the higher GP guild almost always wins. Just like life the rich get richer the middle class is shrinking and the lower class fights for the scraps.
I know I know. I suffered from this exact same thing a year ago when the Sith raid was introduced. It's not good. But considering the morals that that person's guild follows, this is still a blessing not necessarily in disguise.
I could agree, if I did, but i dont.
Can you break down your timeline for years to develop a G13 team, or how many teams?
The way arena was handled has nothing to do with G13 or breaking up guilds. I agree it shouldnt be so tightly managed, but it's hard in the same breath to say you want whales, and that they shouldn't be given an advantage that they are paying for.
Many players are here having fun and are doing it for free. There are even ones that claim they have done it either f2p or low budget and are competitive and liking it. Your bleak view, while not the solely yours, doesnt represent the player base entirely. What you say about the dev team is just not true, but I'm not going to convince you otherwise. It's much easier to be negative and jump on that bandwagon then to look at the other side and see the light. Just an FYI, G12 stuff being more accessible, G13 being not blocked by the Geo TB, and the protection upgrade, just to name a few, didnt need to be done and if they didnt care wouldnt have been.
Lol, living in a fantasy world.
But to answer your question, players quit guilds because CG has created content that requires them to leave to stay competitive.
Except you are completely ignoring the context of the game they are playing. Yes, there was pressure for the best players to leave thier guilds for better guilds, but it's now a near requirement for them to leave to progress. Gated entry, gated rewards, gated progression.
Maybe leaving was a choice before, but now it's near mandatory. And, CG controls that context, not players.
Er....what?
Guilds wouldn't exist if CG didn't put them (and related content) in the game.
I think you are getting things mixed up, guilds were created by CG then made pretty much mandatory when they released TB and characters like Hermit Yoda were only available to those that did them.
Now Shard Chats are completely out of CG's control and I refuse to join them as they are the equivalent of a Mafia controlled neighborhood. Telling people when they need to set their payout who they can or cannot attack. I have even heard examples of the shard chats gambling on who can keep 1st the longest. these are not formed by CG but guilds are there for CG content and if they never wanted them they would not have put them in the game.
It's still a choice.
I personally don't really see what could be enough reason to stay before, but isn't anymore now.
Full disclosure. House much do you get paid to pass the kool-aid drinking sentiment along as that of a normal player. Do the people that don't frequent this forum know that you fervently defend CG because you have a vested interest?
Exactly. Grand Arena Championships should really be viewed as the new Arena. If people are leaving to "stay competitive" they're going to have their worlds flipped upside on them in the next couple months.
They're really just being selfish. Especially those who have been in long established guilds. Good riddance I say to anyone who jumps ship. They belong in a league all their own.... Just not the kyber league.
Guilds existed before CG put them in the game.
Guilds existed before CG.
Lol, that's clearly not what I mean. Check which one is the top guild right now and check it's history on these forums.
I was just being funny, I knew what you meant.
Sure and your post directly outlines why this game has declined in popularity and sales. Their decisions are only focused around the tip of the spear and those that follow.
So screw the new player....they get nothing so they vet to keep playing the same stale game for maybe 2 years or a little less until they start finally getting some of the decent teams farmed. No OTHER game does this that I know of. Keep ignoring and choking out the new player and soon their will be none but the steady decline of current playerbase which as we see is at all time low.
Only the top gets new content not anybody else. No CG should be making a well rounded experience for THEIR whole customer base not just the top 1%.
You guys dropped the hard nodes attempt and the reasoning was new players were progressing too fast. News flash every game as old as this one has done that repeatedly. They have gone back time and time again rebalance the early game to give the new gamers a faster time to catch up with the vets. It is the only way you will retain new players. Clash of Clans has repeatedly done it multiple times. I have played that game since the beginning and the new players don't have near the hold backs we did like 4hr hero regen times and 2 week build times for TH10. Now all those times have been reduced to allow them to catch up with the vets faster.
Some may argue well we had to do it so should they but that is blind outlook and will lead to the death of any long term game. If you keep stretching the goal posts but never allowing them quicker plays to catch up new and med player retention goes down the drain as well as potential customers.
This game should have been restructuring far more then they have to make beginning and mid game faster and faster. They haven't they have slowly made changes here and there but it is still a slog. The gear grind for toons that have been out 3+ is insufferable and the grind for quite a few of the toons itself is as well. ANY other game that had made this much money would have already been making strides to do this but CG seems to think if doesn't look broke don't fix it. Well decline in sales and players should tell you something is definitely broke. The released the Revans just to get up earnings. So it looks to me they intend to bleed the whales for as long as they can and then we will probably see SWGOH 2 since that seems to be EAs modus operandi.
How so? I wasn't around, but if they weren't in the game, what was the point? There would be no currency, no events, nothing that has anything to do with a guild.
It was rather obvious guilds would be a thing. I was in a guild at day 1 too due to migration from CGs previous game. At that state it's much harder to learn the game by yourself than in a guild...especially if you are of competetive mindset. And TI came into being by top krakens of the day on the forums to wreck all. People hated them due to few vocal ones parading around. They are still the top dog, just radio silent. Didn't take that long for CG to make guilds and release rancy. That was evidently their plan all along, just didn't want to burn content too fast as we were still building the minimal stuff to play the game with.
This is in direct competition with my understanding of the concept of causality.