Haha yeah. I’m in a bad guild with my friends. I got g13s and stuff and our opponents have nothing so it’s easy wins.
No I mean what’s your point? My point is that the matchmaking doesn’t take into account characters and stuff. What’s yours?
The same as DarjeloSalas:
Let's see your data that supports your claim. Why wait?
I mean, just read back a bit. There have been several screenshots of the matchups in this thread, and some in the other active thread.
Edit: and just to give another example
What's your point and how is it relevant to what you quote?
My point is going in with fewer players more often than not will result in a favorable matchup, and it is relevant because it is some of my data.
That's not what @Ggdjqjchsabjdj and I were discussing. Your quote was pointless. Your comment may be relevant to others but not to what you quoted.
But ok, thanx at least for explaining your point.
I quoted you asking him for data. There is lots of data to backup his claims in this thread, and the other one. I added the screenshot after the fact for extra data. Not sure how that isn't what you were discussing or how my reply was "pointless" to that discussion.
Haha yeah. I’m in a bad guild with my friends. I got g13s and stuff and our opponents have nothing so it’s easy wins.
No I mean what’s your point? My point is that the matchmaking doesn’t take into account characters and stuff. What’s yours?
The same as DarjeloSalas:
Let's see your data that supports your claim. Why wait?
I mean, just read back a bit. There have been several screenshots of the matchups in this thread, and some in the other active thread.
Edit: and just to give another example
What's your point and how is it relevant to what you quote?
My point is going in with fewer players more often than not will result in a favorable matchup, and it is relevant because it is some of my data.
I’m going to dispute the “more often than not”. There’s no way your evidence can be anything other than anecdotal.
Still, you guys keep posting the screenshots.
Remember my position though: I agree they should fix matchmaking to match active GP AND signed up players.
I’m not sure what you’re hoping to achieve with the screenshots. I’m already on your side. Sadly, we all know that even if they did change the matchmaking to do as I said, there will still be guilds coming on here bumping their gums about unfair matchups.
Haha yeah. I’m in a bad guild with my friends. I got g13s and stuff and our opponents have nothing so it’s easy wins.
No I mean what’s your point? My point is that the matchmaking doesn’t take into account characters and stuff. What’s yours?
The same as DarjeloSalas:
Let's see your data that supports your claim. Why wait?
I mean, just read back a bit. There have been several screenshots of the matchups in this thread, and some in the other active thread.
Edit: and just to give another example
What's your point and how is it relevant to what you quote?
My point is going in with fewer players more often than not will result in a favorable matchup, and it is relevant because it is some of my data.
I’m going to dispute the “more often than not”. There’s no way your evidence can be anything other than anecdotal.
Still, you guys keep posting the screenshots.
Remember my position though: I agree they should fix matchmaking to match active GP AND signed up players.
I’m not sure what you’re hoping to achieve with the screenshots. I’m already on your side. Sadly, we all know that even if they did change the matchmaking to do as I said, there will still be guilds coming on here bumping their gums about unfair matchups.
Well, I wasn't even responding to you, so idk. As for it being 'anectdotal,' I say 'not really.' I could provide the matchups for the last 12 months in my guild if you wanted (which you don't because we don't even disagree).
There will always be unfair matchups, but if they did even what you said it would minimize them, and would take away the incentive to try to do it on purpose.
Haha yeah. I’m in a bad guild with my friends. I got g13s and stuff and our opponents have nothing so it’s easy wins.
No I mean what’s your point? My point is that the matchmaking doesn’t take into account characters and stuff. What’s yours?
The same as DarjeloSalas:
Let's see your data that supports your claim. Why wait?
I mean, just read back a bit. There have been several screenshots of the matchups in this thread, and some in the other active thread.
Edit: and just to give another example
What's your point and how is it relevant to what you quote?
My point is going in with fewer players more often than not will result in a favorable matchup, and it is relevant because it is some of my data.
I’m going to dispute the “more often than not”. There’s no way your evidence can be anything other than anecdotal.
Still, you guys keep posting the screenshots.
Remember my position though: I agree they should fix matchmaking to match active GP AND signed up players.
I’m not sure what you’re hoping to achieve with the screenshots. I’m already on your side. Sadly, we all know that even if they did change the matchmaking to do as I said, there will still be guilds coming on here bumping their gums about unfair matchups.
Well, I wasn't even responding to you, so idk. As for it being 'anectdotal,' I say 'not really.' I could provide the matchups for the last 12 months in my guild if you wanted (which you don't because we don't even disagree).
There will always be unfair matchups, but if they did even what you said it would minimize them, and would take away the incentive to try to do it on purpose.
Agreed with all of that - though, surely I’m allowed to dispute something you said, even if you said it to someone else?!
Haha yeah. I’m in a bad guild with my friends. I got g13s and stuff and our opponents have nothing so it’s easy wins.
No I mean what’s your point? My point is that the matchmaking doesn’t take into account characters and stuff. What’s yours?
The same as DarjeloSalas:
Let's see your data that supports your claim. Why wait?
I mean, just read back a bit. There have been several screenshots of the matchups in this thread, and some in the other active thread.
Edit: and just to give another example
What's your point and how is it relevant to what you quote?
My point is going in with fewer players more often than not will result in a favorable matchup, and it is relevant because it is some of my data.
I’m going to dispute the “more often than not”. There’s no way your evidence can be anything other than anecdotal.
Still, you guys keep posting the screenshots.
Remember my position though: I agree they should fix matchmaking to match active GP AND signed up players.
I’m not sure what you’re hoping to achieve with the screenshots. I’m already on your side. Sadly, we all know that even if they did change the matchmaking to do as I said, there will still be guilds coming on here bumping their gums about unfair matchups.
Well, I wasn't even responding to you, so idk. As for it being 'anectdotal,' I say 'not really.' I could provide the matchups for the last 12 months in my guild if you wanted (which you don't because we don't even disagree).
There will always be unfair matchups, but if they did even what you said it would minimize them, and would take away the incentive to try to do it on purpose.
Agreed with all of that - though, surely I’m allowed to dispute something you said, even if you said it to someone else?!
Of course you are, but my screenshot was directed at that other guy, because he apparently still needs convincing.
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
They are not. Their last official response on the subject was they didn’t believe sandbagging was possible.
blah blah blah
...that answer stems from no statistical outliers in performance, when they have looked at the data in more detail.
I have a difficult time agreeing or accepting that there are no differences in performance. As I said above, a 6m gp players' roster is easily capable of dealing with two 3m gp rosters, etc. Seems they need to dig a bit deeper.
That's because that's not what I said.
When they look at statistics for the game mode they dont see any particular group or entity that is falling outside of the expected range on the win loss ratio.
With everything else going on in the game right now it is good to have some banter, it is good to learn more about the TW Matching Process and the theories around what really happens! I know this is more personal for some than it is for others. This post was just another one to bring to the attention of the developers that for whatever reason, TW Matching is throwing out some strange and wonderful matches. In my previous guild we had some great matches which meant a really fun war. So I know it does work sometimes...
I started the post because of yet another match in TW where my guild were underdogs by 20% overall GP... We won, absolutely wiped them out. They did not all take part, half set defense and very few attacked. This doesn't mean I got it wrong, it actually says the mis match was far worse that I thought. Let's see what happens today in TW. We have on average 47 active plays that are all active in the last 24 hours, not all of them join and not all are eligible to join. In fact last TW some joined that could not even have a go because by the time they logged in all ground battles were complete and they did not have any eligible fleet squads to even take part.
Maybe some examples like this need to be looked at, happy to provide my details @Kyno All we really want is to know someone is listening.
If you can find an example of what you describe actually happening, then you’re onto something.
Good luck with that.
Sorry, are you saying that example shows x 6M GP players taking on 2x 3M GP players? Because it really doesn’t.
never said that. keep up.
It is hard to keep up when you keep changing what you’re saying.
I won’t bother digging out the multiple posts where you said that this scenario is possible in this thread.
I haven't changed anything. only you seem to have the comprehension issue here. it's okay, let's move along, I don't care anymore...
- you said the current MM could match 2 3M GP players with a 6M GP player
- I challenged you to find an example of that
- StarSon posted a screenshot of a matchup that didn’t show 3M GP players matched against 6M GP players
- You told me I hadn’t responded to his example
- Now you’re saying you didn’t say 2 3M GP players could match with a 6M GP player
It’s a shame you don’t care, because I could do with a pointer to where my comprehension is letting me down.
Anyway, this back and forth is in danger of making it seem my position on the matter is something that it isn’t.
To be clear: yes, MM needs to be changed to factor in the number of signed up players AND the active GP. A 50 member 200M guild facing 38 members of a 260M guild is not fair. And I’m not denying that matchups of that nature can and do happen.
My issue with this and most other Matchmaking threads is that people are complaining bitterly about matchups that are nowhere near as imbalanced as that. In fact, I’m not even sure the OP knew when he posted that his guild wasn’t facing the whole of the opposing guild.
I’m not saying OP’s matchup was fair - just that it is not as unfair as he thinks it is. Same for all the other screenshots in this thread.
I have seen all sorts on these forums. People complaining that opposing guild has “almost twice as many +100 offence mods than us”, and even a “Sandbagging” guild who got matched with a much lower GP guild complaining because the smaller guild had more GAS than they did.
The meta toon comparison is an old argument, that goes back to Traya. (Who remembers that Thrawn / Magma trooper counter?!) the difference between the GL toons that are the subject of current complaints is that no guild has to wait 4 months to get more of them. They are permanently available, and the early imbalance in number of GLs should settle down quicker than it did for JKR, DR, Malak etc.
And that’s ultimately it for me. All these mod comparisons, zeta comparisons, meta toon comparisons should be irrelevant, if the active GP and number of players is close.
Anyway, this back and forth is in danger of making it seem my position on the matter is something that it isn’t.
To be clear: yes, MM needs to be changed to factor in the number of signed up players AND the active GP. A 50 member 200M guild facing 38 members of a 260M guild is not fair. And I’m not denying that matchups of that nature can and do happen.
My issue with this and most other Matchmaking threads is that people are complaining bitterly about matchups that are nowhere near as imbalanced as that. In fact, I’m not even sure the OP knew when he posted that his guild wasn’t facing the whole of the opposing guild.
I’m not saying OP’s matchup was fair - just that it is not as unfair as he thinks it is. Same for all the other screenshots in this thread.
I have seen all sorts on these forums. People complaining that opposing guild has “almost twice as many +100 offence mods than us”, and even a “Sandbagging” guild who got matched with a much lower GP guild complaining because the smaller guild had more GAS than they did.
The meta toon comparison is an old argument, that goes back to Traya. (Who remembers that Thrawn / Magma trooper counter?!) the difference between the GL toons that are the subject of current complaints is that no guild has to wait 4 months to get more of them. They are permanently available, and the early imbalance in number of GLs should settle down quicker than it did for JKR, DR, Malak etc.
And that’s ultimately it for me. All these mod comparisons, zeta comparisons, meta toon comparisons should be irrelevant, if the active GP and number of players is close.
We routinely get stacked against guilds with 5 or 6 GL’s to our 1 - qualitatively we have no chance before it even starts - they should add a surrender button to let us just take our loot and go if they aren’t going to make it equitable and fun
But some guilds are always going to face an imbalance on these things.
I mean, a 226M guild with only 16 GAS is going to be up against it no matter who they draw.
You have demonstrated why the culture of this game is horrendous. You're basically normalising bad code. Why should we accept that there's an imbalance? This isn't a game with 10 guilds. This is a game with thousands.
Why has it become ok to eat **** and just say, "oh thats life".
I’m not normalising bad code.
Do I think they should change MM to match on active GP AND number of signed up players? Yes.
Do I think they should change MM so that guilds are only matched with guilds with a similar amount of key toons? No.
I dont understand why it can't be both. Are you implying that its not possible for match ups with active GP, number of signed players AND similar toons?
If i'm not wrong, you are perfectly ok for match-ups whereby one guild lose from the start? Because boohoo, they may not have the toons now, but if they spend as much money as the rank 1 arena players in the other guild, maybe next time they'll be ok!
You are normalising the fact that guilds should accept that they will be blown out of the water by other guilds. That is bad code. That isn't even competitive. And yes, you're ok with it.
We routinely get stacked against guilds with 5 or 6 GL’s to our 1 - qualitatively we have no chance before it even starts - they should add a surrender button to let us just take our loot and go if they aren’t going to make it equitable and fun
But some guilds are always going to face an imbalance on these things.
I mean, a 226M guild with only 16 GAS is going to be up against it no matter who they draw.
You have demonstrated why the culture of this game is horrendous. You're basically normalising bad code. Why should we accept that there's an imbalance? This isn't a game with 10 guilds. This is a game with thousands.
Why has it become ok to eat **** and just say, "oh thats life".
I’m not normalising bad code.
Do I think they should change MM to match on active GP AND number of signed up players? Yes.
Do I think they should change MM so that guilds are only matched with guilds with a similar amount of key toons? No.
I dont understand why it can't be both. Are you implying that its not possible for match ups with active GP, number of signed players AND similar toons?
If i'm not wrong, you are perfectly ok for match-ups whereby one guild lose from the start? Because boohoo, they may not have the toons now, but if they spend as much money as the rank 1 arena players in the other guild, maybe next time they'll be ok!
You are normalising the fact that guilds should accept that they will be blown out of the water by other guilds. That is bad code. That isn't even competitive. And yes, you're ok with it.
Yes, I am OK with it.
- as I’ve said above, the argument about key toons has been around since Traya. Every time a new toon comes out some guilds get more of the toon quickly than others guilds. Such is life. The GL toons should be the least problematic of these situations as the events are always available.
- if 2 guilds of similar GP and number of players have a big difference in the number of certain toons, one of those guilds has been focused with their farming / gearing, the other hasn’t.
- you suggesting that only people who spend lots of money can obtain rank 1 in arena is laughable.
But the big 2 reasons I have against your suggestion are these:
- if we match guilds on number of people, signed up GP AND number of key toons, there will be people filling the forums with complaints that the opponents had better mods than them. Ultimately some guilds always look for a reason to complain rather than address their own failings.
- do you honestly think the devs are capable of writing such code? I admire your optimism but they are not up to it.
as I’ve said above, the argument about key toons has been around since Traya. Every time a new toon comes out some guilds get more of the toon quickly than others guilds. Such is life. The GL toons should be the least problematic of these situations as the events are always available.
- then why can't guilds with the new toons be matched with other guilds with the new toons? Again, this isn't a small player base, the size of the game should make gp/player gp and player meta count. If they can do it for GAC, why not TW? Im not being matched up against other 5 mill players with 0 relic squads.
if 2 guilds of similar GP and number of players have a big difference in the number of certain toons, one of those guilds has been focused with their farming / gearing, the other hasn’t.
- Again why can it not be similar guilds?
-you suggesting that only people who spend lots of money can obtain rank 1 in arena is laughable.
No im suggesting there are guilds filled with rank 1 arena players who are LIKELY to have spent money. A 200 mill guild with average arena rank 1-10 will always beat a 200 mill guild with average arena rank 100+. Suggesting otherwise is laughable. And yet such match ups happen.
But the big 2 reasons I have against your suggestion are these: If we match guilds on number of people, signed up GP AND number of key toons, there will be people filling the forums with complaints that the opponents had better mods than them. Ultimately some guilds always look for a reason to complain rather than address their own failings.
Did you see my guilds match up? Im not complaining about mods (and if people did then i whole heartedly agree, they are ****), or the fact they had one GAS more than us. I'm complaining about the fact that we have 5 GLs and they have 20. That we had 1 meta toon for every 2 of theirs. That is not competitive, nor is it the first time that it has happened. You and I both know that they may have well just given them the win from the start.
- do you honestly think the devs are capable of writing such code? I admire your optimism but they are not up to it.
Latest Match they have 27,811,468 higher GP 26%
34 of us have joined = 85892193 our average 2526241 GP
There's 14 spots per territory so by what people have said the number of members joined on their Guild is either 28 or 29 so their average if matched on joined GP is:
85892193 / 28 = 3067578
85892193 / 29 = 2961800
So is it based upon Guild GP, 47 us are active in last 24 hours 102054613 GP
Or GP of Joined as per above
Latest Match they have 27,811,468 higher GP 26%
34 of us have joined = 85892193 our average 2526241 GP
There's 14 spots per territory so by what people have said the number of members joined on their Guild is either 28 or 29 so their average if matched on joined GP is:
85892193 / 28 = 3067578
85892193 / 29 = 2961800
So is it based upon Guild GP, 47 us are active in last 24 hours 102054613 GP
Or GP of Joined as per above
I just want to know. Or I am missing something???
GP joined. Your active GP (85.9M) will be very similar to theirs.
But as you point out, yours is made up of 34 players, theirs is 28 or 29.
You’re certainly at a disadvantage, but I wouldn’t say it’s a write off.
C'mon man. Drop the CG defense for a second and pretend you have integrity.
Run 50/50 vs 46/50...everyone that actually plays this game knows what the result will be before you even look at the rosters. We've all seen plenty of data - on both sides of that equation. TW matchmaking is poor when one side has a fully active guild and the other doesn't.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
@Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
It's not intentional - but that's irrelevant. The matchmaking does a very poor job when a fully active guild faces one that's not.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
It's not intentional - but that's irrelevant. The matchmaking does a very poor job when a fully active guild faces one that's not.
I missed the original ping.
This right here is what's important.
No matter how the guilds get to the active GP they are at when joining a TW, they should be matched in a way that makes for a "fair" battle.
There is a wide range of what can be considered "fair" and as I have said (I think it was a different post) when the group spoke about this, the general consensus from the dev team was that they didnt see any outliers in the data and that (I believe the win ratio is the data they look at) didnt seem to be skewed by things like this.
They did say they would try to have a closer look to see if there is anything going on that is supported by the data they have. Again, no promises, just that it would be looked at.
We have lost every tw but 1 in over a year being matched against similar gp- we are all veteran players - that’s not a run of bad luck or bad play, that’s systemic. We routinely fight more than double our gas and have 1 gl so get killed at our gp level. It took us 28 teams to get through a slylo tank team - that’s extreme but it speaks to the imbalance
Kyno Do you know if CG is workin at improvment of TW's matchmaking and to prevent 300KK GP guilds from INTENTIONAL droping members for the event to get better matchmaking for them?
As it not fun to play vs guild that has almost 1kk GP more at every guild member then my guild.
thank you in advance for the answer
It's not intentional - but that's irrelevant. The matchmaking does a very poor job when a fully active guild faces one that's not.
I missed the original ping.
This right here is what's important.
No matter how the guilds get to the active GP they are at when joining a TW, they should be matched in a way that makes for a "fair" battle.
There is a wide range of what can be considered "fair" and as I have said (I think it was a different post) when the group spoke about this, the general consensus from the dev team was that they didnt see any outliers in the data and that (I believe the win ratio is the data they look at) didnt seem to be skewed by things like this.
I find this very difficult to believe. Every time a full 50 guild has gone up against 46 or lower it has lost. In every TW I have played. Every. Single. One.
They are either not looking at the right data or are being dishonest.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
C'mon man. Drop the CG defense for a second and pretend you have integrity.
Run 50/50 vs 46/50...everyone that actually plays this game knows what the result will be before you even look at the rosters. We've all seen plenty of data - on both sides of that equation. TW matchmaking is poor when one side has a fully active guild and the other doesn't.
You should maybe read the rest of my posts in this thread...
My guild has between 46 and 48 members since last year.
According to our statistics we win about 70% - 80% of all TW. Many of the wars were exciting, close and full of fighting spirit. Sometimes the enemy was completely disoriented. All in all, completely fair.
The eighth or ninth opponent is always completely overpowering.
That's how it is now.
We have won the last four TWs and now we have an opponent who is superior in fleets and extremely superior in troops. Is this supposed to keep our win-loss ratio in check?
C'mon man. Drop the CG defense for a second and pretend you have integrity.
Run 50/50 vs 46/50...everyone that actually plays this game knows what the result will be before you even look at the rosters. We've all seen plenty of data - on both sides of that equation. TW matchmaking is poor when one side has a fully active guild and the other doesn't.
You should maybe read the rest of my posts in this thread...
No thank you.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Latest Match they have 27,811,468 higher GP 26%
34 of us have joined = 85892193 our average 2526241 GP
There's 14 spots per territory so by what people have said the number of members joined on their Guild is either 28 or 29 so their average if matched on joined GP is:
85892193 / 28 = 3067578
85892193 / 29 = 2961800
So is it based upon Guild GP, 47 us are active in last 24 hours 102054613 GP
Or GP of Joined as per above
I just want to know. Or I am missing something???
GP joined. Your active GP (85.9M) will be very similar to theirs.
But as you point out, yours is made up of 34 players, theirs is 28 or 29.
You’re certainly at a disadvantage, but I wouldn’t say it’s a write off.
& @Kyno
So the match is based upon Joined GP if based upon the 85.9m not Active Guild at the time TW starts (102m). So by the time everyone Joins and the time we see who we are up against it has matched us based upon total GP of everyone Joined, why don't we have just allow more time to analyse anything else 30Minutes between Join Window Closes and The Matching would be better???
Replies
I quoted you asking him for data. There is lots of data to backup his claims in this thread, and the other one. I added the screenshot after the fact for extra data. Not sure how that isn't what you were discussing or how my reply was "pointless" to that discussion.
I’m going to dispute the “more often than not”. There’s no way your evidence can be anything other than anecdotal.
Still, you guys keep posting the screenshots.
Remember my position though: I agree they should fix matchmaking to match active GP AND signed up players.
I’m not sure what you’re hoping to achieve with the screenshots. I’m already on your side. Sadly, we all know that even if they did change the matchmaking to do as I said, there will still be guilds coming on here bumping their gums about unfair matchups.
Well, I wasn't even responding to you, so idk. As for it being 'anectdotal,' I say 'not really.' I could provide the matchups for the last 12 months in my guild if you wanted (which you don't because we don't even disagree).
There will always be unfair matchups, but if they did even what you said it would minimize them, and would take away the incentive to try to do it on purpose.
never said that. keep up.
Of course you are, but my screenshot was directed at that other guy, because he apparently still needs convincing.
I won’t bother digging out the multiple posts where you said that this scenario is possible in this thread.
I haven't changed anything. only you seem to have the comprehension issue here. it's okay, let's move along, I don't care anymore...
That request didn't originate from me. My question for him was: Why wait? Your own data is irrelevant in both cases. But thanx anyway.
Welcome to the Post @Kyno
With everything else going on in the game right now it is good to have some banter, it is good to learn more about the TW Matching Process and the theories around what really happens! I know this is more personal for some than it is for others. This post was just another one to bring to the attention of the developers that for whatever reason, TW Matching is throwing out some strange and wonderful matches. In my previous guild we had some great matches which meant a really fun war. So I know it does work sometimes...
I started the post because of yet another match in TW where my guild were underdogs by 20% overall GP... We won, absolutely wiped them out. They did not all take part, half set defense and very few attacked. This doesn't mean I got it wrong, it actually says the mis match was far worse that I thought. Let's see what happens today in TW. We have on average 47 active plays that are all active in the last 24 hours, not all of them join and not all are eligible to join. In fact last TW some joined that could not even have a go because by the time they logged in all ground battles were complete and they did not have any eligible fleet squads to even take part.
Maybe some examples like this need to be looked at, happy to provide my details @Kyno All we really want is to know someone is listening.
This won't be the last mismatch I am sure...
- I challenged you to find an example of that
- StarSon posted a screenshot of a matchup that didn’t show 3M GP players matched against 6M GP players
- You told me I hadn’t responded to his example
- Now you’re saying you didn’t say 2 3M GP players could match with a 6M GP player
It’s a shame you don’t care, because I could do with a pointer to where my comprehension is letting me down.
To be clear: yes, MM needs to be changed to factor in the number of signed up players AND the active GP. A 50 member 200M guild facing 38 members of a 260M guild is not fair. And I’m not denying that matchups of that nature can and do happen.
My issue with this and most other Matchmaking threads is that people are complaining bitterly about matchups that are nowhere near as imbalanced as that. In fact, I’m not even sure the OP knew when he posted that his guild wasn’t facing the whole of the opposing guild.
I’m not saying OP’s matchup was fair - just that it is not as unfair as he thinks it is. Same for all the other screenshots in this thread.
I have seen all sorts on these forums. People complaining that opposing guild has “almost twice as many +100 offence mods than us”, and even a “Sandbagging” guild who got matched with a much lower GP guild complaining because the smaller guild had more GAS than they did.
The meta toon comparison is an old argument, that goes back to Traya. (Who remembers that Thrawn / Magma trooper counter?!) the difference between the GL toons that are the subject of current complaints is that no guild has to wait 4 months to get more of them. They are permanently available, and the early imbalance in number of GLs should settle down quicker than it did for JKR, DR, Malak etc.
And that’s ultimately it for me. All these mod comparisons, zeta comparisons, meta toon comparisons should be irrelevant, if the active GP and number of players is close.
IF
I dont understand why it can't be both. Are you implying that its not possible for match ups with active GP, number of signed players AND similar toons?
If i'm not wrong, you are perfectly ok for match-ups whereby one guild lose from the start? Because boohoo, they may not have the toons now, but if they spend as much money as the rank 1 arena players in the other guild, maybe next time they'll be ok!
You are normalising the fact that guilds should accept that they will be blown out of the water by other guilds. That is bad code. That isn't even competitive. And yes, you're ok with it.
- as I’ve said above, the argument about key toons has been around since Traya. Every time a new toon comes out some guilds get more of the toon quickly than others guilds. Such is life. The GL toons should be the least problematic of these situations as the events are always available.
- if 2 guilds of similar GP and number of players have a big difference in the number of certain toons, one of those guilds has been focused with their farming / gearing, the other hasn’t.
- you suggesting that only people who spend lots of money can obtain rank 1 in arena is laughable.
But the big 2 reasons I have against your suggestion are these:
- if we match guilds on number of people, signed up GP AND number of key toons, there will be people filling the forums with complaints that the opponents had better mods than them. Ultimately some guilds always look for a reason to complain rather than address their own failings.
- do you honestly think the devs are capable of writing such code? I admire your optimism but they are not up to it.
- then why can't guilds with the new toons be matched with other guilds with the new toons? Again, this isn't a small player base, the size of the game should make gp/player gp and player meta count. If they can do it for GAC, why not TW? Im not being matched up against other 5 mill players with 0 relic squads.
if 2 guilds of similar GP and number of players have a big difference in the number of certain toons, one of those guilds has been focused with their farming / gearing, the other hasn’t.
- Again why can it not be similar guilds?
-you suggesting that only people who spend lots of money can obtain rank 1 in arena is laughable.
No im suggesting there are guilds filled with rank 1 arena players who are LIKELY to have spent money. A 200 mill guild with average arena rank 1-10 will always beat a 200 mill guild with average arena rank 100+. Suggesting otherwise is laughable. And yet such match ups happen.
But the big 2 reasons I have against your suggestion are these: If we match guilds on number of people, signed up GP AND number of key toons, there will be people filling the forums with complaints that the opponents had better mods than them. Ultimately some guilds always look for a reason to complain rather than address their own failings.
Did you see my guilds match up? Im not complaining about mods (and if people did then i whole heartedly agree, they are ****), or the fact they had one GAS more than us. I'm complaining about the fact that we have 5 GLs and they have 20. That we had 1 meta toon for every 2 of theirs. That is not competitive, nor is it the first time that it has happened. You and I both know that they may have well just given them the win from the start.
- do you honestly think the devs are capable of writing such code? I admire your optimism but they are not up to it.
I they can do it for GAC, why not TW
2- you’re claiming GAC matchmaking is good? Have you read the forums?
You know people complain about GAC MM too right?
Also, GAC MM is still just GP.
Latest Match they have 27,811,468 higher GP 26%
34 of us have joined = 85892193 our average 2526241 GP
There's 14 spots per territory so by what people have said the number of members joined on their Guild is either 28 or 29 so their average if matched on joined GP is:
85892193 / 28 = 3067578
85892193 / 29 = 2961800
So is it based upon Guild GP, 47 us are active in last 24 hours 102054613 GP
Or GP of Joined as per above
I just want to know. Or I am missing something???
GP joined. Your active GP (85.9M) will be very similar to theirs.
But as you point out, yours is made up of 34 players, theirs is 28 or 29.
You’re certainly at a disadvantage, but I wouldn’t say it’s a write off.
C'mon man. Drop the CG defense for a second and pretend you have integrity.
Run 50/50 vs 46/50...everyone that actually plays this game knows what the result will be before you even look at the rosters. We've all seen plenty of data - on both sides of that equation. TW matchmaking is poor when one side has a fully active guild and the other doesn't.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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It's not intentional - but that's irrelevant. The matchmaking does a very poor job when a fully active guild faces one that's not.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
I missed the original ping.
This right here is what's important.
No matter how the guilds get to the active GP they are at when joining a TW, they should be matched in a way that makes for a "fair" battle.
There is a wide range of what can be considered "fair" and as I have said (I think it was a different post) when the group spoke about this, the general consensus from the dev team was that they didnt see any outliers in the data and that (I believe the win ratio is the data they look at) didnt seem to be skewed by things like this.
They did say they would try to have a closer look to see if there is anything going on that is supported by the data they have. Again, no promises, just that it would be looked at.
They are either not looking at the right data or are being dishonest.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
According to our statistics we win about 70% - 80% of all TW. Many of the wars were exciting, close and full of fighting spirit. Sometimes the enemy was completely disoriented. All in all, completely fair.
The eighth or ninth opponent is always completely overpowering.
That's how it is now.
We have won the last four TWs and now we have an opponent who is superior in fleets and extremely superior in troops. Is this supposed to keep our win-loss ratio in check?
No thank you.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
& @Kyno
So the match is based upon Joined GP if based upon the 85.9m not Active Guild at the time TW starts (102m). So by the time everyone Joins and the time we see who we are up against it has matched us based upon total GP of everyone Joined, why don't we have just allow more time to analyse anything else 30Minutes between Join Window Closes and The Matching would be better???