Shard Economy Changes [MEGA]

Replies

  • scuba
    12680 posts Member
    @CG_Doja_Fett can we get confirmation that the plan to double the shard shop prices is to actually double the cost and not half the quantity?
  • Of the fixes for the bronsium, I think doubling the ally points obtained or halving the price, while easy to implement, make the bronsiums take twice as long to open. That is not a good solution.

    Hopefully they are true to their word and address gear after they observe the effects of this. I would rather wait a reasonable amount of time (a few weeks, not several months) for a better fix rather than the easy ones suggested that will cause as many complaints as they fix.
  • Of the fixes for the bronsium, I think doubling the ally points obtained or halving the price, while easy to implement, make the bronsiums take twice as long to open. That is not a good solution.

    Hopefully they are true to their word and address gear after they observe the effects of this. I would rather wait a reasonable amount of time (a few weeks, not several months) for a better fix rather than the easy ones suggested that will cause as many complaints as they fix.

    I have zero confidence that they are true to their word. They have been hardcore about nerfing bronziums since they removed them from marquee events. They doubled the amount of pulls at them that we get per day and seem to be having buyers remorse that they did so. Did they identify this as a source of stun guns that they wish to choke further?
    Officer in Ewoks Fit In Blenders. Traya, Wat & Negotiator on farm. PM to join us.
  • @CG_Doja_Fett and CG I want to thank you. It is sometimes hard to remember that the people that you are ranting at are humans and work hard at what they do. They release something with one problem and then it is torn down over 200 times. You are all human, and humans make mistakes. You have said that you intend to fix it and I believe you, so thank you for this giant leap in the direction of helping players greatly.
  • Of the fixes for the bronsium, I think doubling the ally points obtained or halving the price, while easy to implement, make the bronsiums take twice as long to open. That is not a good solution.

    Hopefully they are true to their word and address gear after they observe the effects of this. I would rather wait a reasonable amount of time (a few weeks, not several months) for a better fix rather than the easy ones suggested that will cause as many complaints as they fix.

    I have zero confidence that they are true to their word. They have been hardcore about nerfing bronziums since they removed them from marquee events. They doubled the amount of pulls at them that we get per day and seem to be having buyers remorse that they did so. Did they identify this as a source of stun guns that they wish to choke further?

    Very likely.
    Note the wording "does not include Bronzium Data Cards due to a technical issue. We will explore increasing this rate in a future update".
    They aren't even promising to fix the "issue".
  • To those saying the gear crunch is by design and it shouldn't matter if it's temporarily worse:

    Yes but new updates meant to expedite gameplay shouldn't exasperate something bad, even if it's by design. That's not helpful to anyone, it's detrimental.

    Nah, I didn't defend the ally point thing. It's bad for everyone and not just veterans. I use them every 100k and that became important part of shard shop gear farming. CG should absolutely solve this before it shades a pretty good move otherwise.

    I'm rather posing a question on the widely spread opinion that gear crunch is constantly getting worse.
  • There was an idea... why don't they half the amount of shard shop currency you get from accelerated characters and leave everything else to do with the shard shop alone? this would fix the bronzium ''problem'' while leaving everything else exactly how it is and how it's going to be.
  • Jefferx
    342 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Is this the last and only change to the economy? Or something else is coming?
    Bronzium may not be a trouble if there is other way to get gear. Bronzium is a good way ( but a poor way) to get gear 12. I would prefer getting gear g12 in other way than claiming bronzium. Since sith raid is now broken with the solo SLKR and the reward difference for top 10 or not. This broke high GP guild and it’s growing every week... This change actually is a good and needed change for growing new players, but it’s actually bad for old players and the access to g12 gear.
  • Jefferx wrote: »
    Is this the last and only change to the economy? Or something else is coming?
    Bronzium may not be a trouble if there is other way to get gear. Bronzium is a good way ( but a poor way) to get gear 12. I would prefer getting gear g12 in other way than claiming bronzium. Since sith raid is now broken with the solo SLKR and the reward difference for top 10 or not. This broke high GP guild and it’s growing every week...

    They said it leaves the door open to gear economy changes but they need to see how this works first so no promises. Remaining optimistic that they do make a change in the near future
  • Bottom line is gear is almost always the bottle neck.

    This is just not true.

    If there are 5 toons on one hard node each - say you want Jango & Bossk, Talzin & Wicket for their events, & someone else that's decent but only available on a hard node. Nihilus maybe. Can't remember if he has another farming location, but let's say for the purpose of the example that he doesn't.

    1.6 shards / day = 200 days to get those toons. You could try to do it faster, but that's 500 energy/day - all your free/accrued + 1 refresh. So let's leave it there, since you'll need crystals for other things.

    Now, you could try to speed it up even further, but you're not going to get it under 100/day without huge crystal spending, which for most people isn't sustainable.

    So if you're that average player, maybe even above average, but nothing special, hitting rank 49 in fleet & 199 in squad, there's no way you can farm those toons faster than 150 days.

    So here's the question: can you get 5 toons from gear1/level 1 to level 85 & gear 12 in less than 150 days?

    If the answer is yes, then gear is not the biggest bottleneck.
    If the answer is no, then you're a petty poor player.
  • Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    ea/cg cant do something to help the community without taking something away. so they give one thing but take something else away. as a player that has been around since nov 2015 when the game started i know ea/cg doesnt care about me anymore. thats the statement they make when they do something for new players and take something away from us longtime players on a 5th year anniversary change. thats how i see it. if you do something for the community it should universally benefit the community. i am all for helping newer players but not at the detriment of the majority of the community.

    I agree wholeheartedly on your comment. I am close if not a day one player. I have read all the past Q&A’s and provided feedback to surveys to all see it ignored (i.e. gear crunch) The game made it five years on the backs of us long term players. I am all for helping newer players as they have way more characters to farm than we did...however the gear acquisition has no way kept up. A nice gesture of keeping the shard shop cost the same, as it is now, instead of doubling it would have helped EVERYONE and would have been seen as them listening to their player base...especially after kyro addition under the guise it would help “diversify” the gear requirements to only turn into another gear wall. What is the plan for year 6 anniversary? What will be taken away then? We have had more nerfs in 2020 than content. Think about that!!

    How do you assess gear acquisition not keeping up?

    When I look at the evolution of my roster it's not as bad as majority claims. To give an idea of the conditions, f2p, both arena top income, very rarely buy gear but always 3x farm. At the time g13 was introduced I had 80 g12s. Right now I have 65 g13s and 63 g12s. I bet g13 count will exceed previous g12 count before the new gear thingie is here. Stun things are waning as a bottleneck for me while kyro and fleet g12+ needs (especially mk12 furnace and stun cuffs) are becoming more prominent. This is very much by design and everyone hits it at some point.

    You are looking at it from your roster and your point of view. I am looking at it from an all player view as I see what my needs are but also that of my guild. A pretty big tell tale sign is the daily gear request made by guild members...we have at least 15-20 requests a day for stun guns. Let’s be honest all guilds probably see this daily except the high end ones. One place to get said stuns guns is the shard shop...make it easier to get this stuns guns with this change is to keep the cost as it is now instead of doubling. Plus add them to the guild store (the only reason they’re not there is guns were/are the gear wall with older toons)...as now kyros are the gear wall on new toons. So if we are helping newer players with shards, on the accelerated path, shouldn’t they be helped with the gear wall on gear level 7 or 8?

    I posed a question. You are not looking at all player point of view whatsoever. I'm not talking about -this change- either, I'm talking about the claim that gear crunch is ever getting worse and asked for what metric you are deciding that to be the case. -still needing guns- is not much of a proof as everyone still needs guns.
  • @Schwartzring
    Given the crunch on GET-1 w/ Malak, GAS, HODA, & Wampa, Shard Store is my #1 source of extra Stun Guns outside of Siming the DS Nodes.
    This is exactly what I was fearing more than anything. Stungun crunch just got more painful.

    No, it didn't.

    Bulldog created a misimpression. Yes, you lose a few thousand Shard Shop Currency each month. Yes, IN THEORY that's enough to buy stun guns. But stun guns don't show up in the store that often. So if your priority is stun guns, you will still be able to buy stun guns every single time they appear in the Shard Shop. You will still earn FAR MORE than you need to buy every single stun gun that cycles through.

    The only way you'd be losing stun guns is if you're currently not earning enough SSC to buy all the stun guns and buy some other things too. If you've been level 85 for a while, you shouldn't have any trouble doing exactly that.

    So instead of slowing down stun guns, which everyone buys every single time they appear, you'll have to slow down on those extra things you buy besides SGs. Not stop them, but slow down. And it's going to matter less, since those are much more expensive, so you have to skip fewer purchases to live within your means. A drop of 3000 currency would only be a drop of 16 salvage for the most expensive gear.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this doesn't need a fix, but Bulldog's hypothetical example can't possibly come true, since the shop never allowed you to purchase that many SG salvage, even if you had the currency. Bulldog's translation of currency into Stun Guns is just inspiring needless panic.

    The better example and much more realistic scenario is that it costs you 16-20 Mk12 Gold Fusion Furnace salvage per month.

    Yes that's bad.

    No, it isn't nearly as bad as losing 100 stun gun salvage.

    Stay calm. Soldier on.
  • crzydroid
    5692 posts Moderator
    Mace_Windu wrote: »
    There was an idea... why don't they half the amount of shard shop currency you get from accelerated characters and leave everything else to do with the shard shop alone? this would fix the bronzium ''problem'' while leaving everything else exactly how it is and how it's going to be.

    That doesn't solve anything. You still aren't getting double bronzium drops, so you are still halving the SSC you get from bronzium drops. It's the exact same issue.
  • scuba
    12680 posts Member
    Mace_Windu wrote: »
    There was an idea... why don't they half the amount of shard shop currency you get from accelerated characters and leave everything else to do with the shard shop alone? this would fix the bronzium ''problem'' while leaving everything else exactly how it is and how it's going to be.

    The idea, which I give them credit for, is to keep the shard shop neutral.
    With the current plan accelerated characters are obtained at double the rate every where except Bronzium
    If you half the shard shop currency from accelerated characters and leave shard shop prices the same you are still Bronzium characters are still going to have the same issue because the aquistion rate is not changing
    The problem is they can't (for some technical reason) change the bronzium rate
  • Kyno
    30042 posts Moderator
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    ea/cg cant do something to help the community without taking something away. so they give one thing but take something else away. as a player that has been around since nov 2015 when the game started i know ea/cg doesnt care about me anymore. thats the statement they make when they do something for new players and take something away from us longtime players on a 5th year anniversary change. thats how i see it. if you do something for the community it should universally benefit the community. i am all for helping newer players but not at the detriment of the majority of the community.

    I agree wholeheartedly on your comment. I am close if not a day one player. I have read all the past Q&A’s and provided feedback to surveys to all see it ignored (i.e. gear crunch) The game made it five years on the backs of us long term players. I am all for helping newer players as they have way more characters to farm than we did...however the gear acquisition has no way kept up. A nice gesture of keeping the shard shop cost the same, as it is now, instead of doubling it would have helped EVERYONE and would have been seen as them listening to their player base...especially after kyro addition under the guise it would help “diversify” the gear requirements to only turn into another gear wall. What is the plan for year 6 anniversary? What will be taken away then? We have had more nerfs in 2020 than content. Think about that!!

    How do you assess gear acquisition not keeping up?

    When I look at the evolution of my roster it's not as bad as majority claims. To give an idea of the conditions, f2p, both arena top income, very rarely buy gear but always 3x farm. At the time g13 was introduced I had 80 g12s. Right now I have 65 g13s and 63 g12s. I bet g13 count will exceed previous g12 count before the new gear thingie is here. Stun things are waning as a bottleneck for me while kyro and fleet g12+ needs (especially mk12 furnace and stun cuffs) are becoming more prominent. This is very much by design and everyone hits it at some point.

    You are looking at it from your roster and your point of view. I am looking at it from an all player view as I see what my needs are but also that of my guild. A pretty big tell tale sign is the daily gear request made by guild members...we have at least 15-20 requests a day for stun guns. Let’s be honest all guilds probably see this daily except the high end ones. One place to get said stuns guns is the shard shop...make it easier to get this stuns guns with this change is to keep the cost as it is now instead of doubling. Plus add them to the guild store (the only reason they’re not there is guns were/are the gear wall with older toons)...as now kyros are the gear wall on new toons. So if we are helping newer players with shards, on the accelerated path, shouldn’t they be helped with the gear wall on gear level 7 or 8?

    I posed a question. You are not looking at all player point of view whatsoever. I'm not talking about -this change- either, I'm talking about the claim that gear crunch is ever getting worse and asked for what metric you are deciding that to be the case. -still needing guns- is not much of a proof as everyone still needs guns.

    Let me try to understand...everyone still needs stun guns and we do not have hundreds laying around to scavenge. We still need them because of old gear walls and many new toon still have them. We have limited stores to purchase them in. We have more toons then years ago...we have had gear levels 9-12.5 added in the last few years that may also need stun guns. You are now trying to accelerate shard acquisition with no decent way to improve gear acquisition to accommodate...seems fishy to me. Are they buying time to where six months down the road these newer players realize they have all the 7 star toons stuck at gear level 7 and then give up? I see it everyday in my guild as the churn is real. They need to do both!! Being able to have a little more purchasing power in the shard shop will probably go along way to keep the players around. FYI, I am using stun guns as the example as we all know for newer players these are the problem.

    I'm not saying this is a complete offset, or should be considered "the whole fix", but you are bypassing an important part if this change.

    If a new player does nothing different, they will finish a toon in half the time, which now leaves them more time/energy/crystals to farm gear. I agree this should not be seen as the end all be all of the situation, but it is a decent improvement to the situation, on that side too.

    Yes players can still make mistakes and use this to farm every character to 7* and try to be too wide in their goals and dig themselves in a whole, but this has always and will always be a possibility.
  • scuba wrote: »
    Mace_Windu wrote: »
    There was an idea... why don't they half the amount of shard shop currency you get from accelerated characters and leave everything else to do with the shard shop alone? this would fix the bronzium ''problem'' while leaving everything else exactly how it is and how it's going to be.

    The idea, which I give them credit for, is to keep the shard shop neutral.
    With the current plan accelerated characters are obtained at double the rate every where except Bronzium
    If you half the shard shop currency from accelerated characters and leave shard shop prices the same you are still Bronzium characters are still going to have the same issue because the aquistion rate is not changing
    The problem is they can't (for some technical reason) change the bronzium rate

    They could add some of the characters shards for bronizum characters to other events as a temp fix. Like throw 50 boba shards in a GC one week. Or what ever number required to even it out.

    That would be better than adjusting ally points.
  • Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    ea/cg cant do something to help the community without taking something away. so they give one thing but take something else away. as a player that has been around since nov 2015 when the game started i know ea/cg doesnt care about me anymore. thats the statement they make when they do something for new players and take something away from us longtime players on a 5th year anniversary change. thats how i see it. if you do something for the community it should universally benefit the community. i am all for helping newer players but not at the detriment of the majority of the community.

    I agree wholeheartedly on your comment. I am close if not a day one player. I have read all the past Q&A’s and provided feedback to surveys to all see it ignored (i.e. gear crunch) The game made it five years on the backs of us long term players. I am all for helping newer players as they have way more characters to farm than we did...however the gear acquisition has no way kept up. A nice gesture of keeping the shard shop cost the same, as it is now, instead of doubling it would have helped EVERYONE and would have been seen as them listening to their player base...especially after kyro addition under the guise it would help “diversify” the gear requirements to only turn into another gear wall. What is the plan for year 6 anniversary? What will be taken away then? We have had more nerfs in 2020 than content. Think about that!!

    How do you assess gear acquisition not keeping up?

    When I look at the evolution of my roster it's not as bad as majority claims. To give an idea of the conditions, f2p, both arena top income, very rarely buy gear but always 3x farm. At the time g13 was introduced I had 80 g12s. Right now I have 65 g13s and 63 g12s. I bet g13 count will exceed previous g12 count before the new gear thingie is here. Stun things are waning as a bottleneck for me while kyro and fleet g12+ needs (especially mk12 furnace and stun cuffs) are becoming more prominent. This is very much by design and everyone hits it at some point.

    You are looking at it from your roster and your point of view. I am looking at it from an all player view as I see what my needs are but also that of my guild. A pretty big tell tale sign is the daily gear request made by guild members...we have at least 15-20 requests a day for stun guns. Let’s be honest all guilds probably see this daily except the high end ones. One place to get said stuns guns is the shard shop...make it easier to get this stuns guns with this change is to keep the cost as it is now instead of doubling. Plus add them to the guild store (the only reason they’re not there is guns were/are the gear wall with older toons)...as now kyros are the gear wall on new toons. So if we are helping newer players with shards, on the accelerated path, shouldn’t they be helped with the gear wall on gear level 7 or 8?

    I posed a question. You are not looking at all player point of view whatsoever. I'm not talking about -this change- either, I'm talking about the claim that gear crunch is ever getting worse and asked for what metric you are deciding that to be the case. -still needing guns- is not much of a proof as everyone still needs guns.

    Let me try to understand...everyone still needs stun guns and we do not have hundreds laying around to scavenge. We still need them because of old gear walls and many new toon still have them. We have limited stores to purchase them in. We have more toons then years ago...we have had gear levels 9-12.5 added in the last few years that may also need stun guns. You are now trying to accelerate shard acquisition with no decent way to improve gear acquisition to accommodate...seems fishy to me. Are they buying time to where six months down the road these newer players realize they have all the 7 star toons stuck at gear level 7 and then give up? I see it everyday in my guild as the churn is real. They need to do both!! Being able to have a little more purchasing power in the shard shop will probably go along way to keep the players around. FYI, I am using stun guns as the example as we all know for newer players these are the problem.

    See, this was the topic I was responding to. Now you made it about new players.

    "I agree wholeheartedly on your comment. I am close if not a day one player. I have read all the past Q&A’s and provided feedback to surveys to all see it ignored (i.e. gear crunch) The game made it five years on the backs of us long term players. I am all for helping newer players as they have way more characters to farm than we did...however the gear acquisition has no way kept up."

    So by what metric are you saying gear acquisition hasn't kept up for veteran players? I put my situation out there as an example old gear needs becoming less of a crunch, while the new ones become the real deal.

    To make sure we are on the same page, I made my position about ally points clear a few messages ago which I perfectly agree with the current planned loss is not acceptable.
  • I have so many points to add to this, but to illustrate, here’s 10k points spent the other day. dc9yhffjfkvv.png
    This is how I farm g12 stuff. Scale or double or whatever, don’t nerf this.

    Cool. I just spent 30k:

    govj31yeg697.jpeg


  • Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    ea/cg cant do something to help the community without taking something away. so they give one thing but take something else away. as a player that has been around since nov 2015 when the game started i know ea/cg doesnt care about me anymore. thats the statement they make when they do something for new players and take something away from us longtime players on a 5th year anniversary change. thats how i see it. if you do something for the community it should universally benefit the community. i am all for helping newer players but not at the detriment of the majority of the community.

    I agree wholeheartedly on your comment. I am close if not a day one player. I have read all the past Q&A’s and provided feedback to surveys to all see it ignored (i.e. gear crunch) The game made it five years on the backs of us long term players. I am all for helping newer players as they have way more characters to farm than we did...however the gear acquisition has no way kept up. A nice gesture of keeping the shard shop cost the same, as it is now, instead of doubling it would have helped EVERYONE and would have been seen as them listening to their player base...especially after kyro addition under the guise it would help “diversify” the gear requirements to only turn into another gear wall. What is the plan for year 6 anniversary? What will be taken away then? We have had more nerfs in 2020 than content. Think about that!!

    How do you assess gear acquisition not keeping up?

    When I look at the evolution of my roster it's not as bad as majority claims. To give an idea of the conditions, f2p, both arena top income, very rarely buy gear but always 3x farm. At the time g13 was introduced I had 80 g12s. Right now I have 65 g13s and 63 g12s. I bet g13 count will exceed previous g12 count before the new gear thingie is here. Stun things are waning as a bottleneck for me while kyro and fleet g12+ needs (especially mk12 furnace and stun cuffs) are becoming more prominent. This is very much by design and everyone hits it at some point.

    You are looking at it from your roster and your point of view. I am looking at it from an all player view as I see what my needs are but also that of my guild. A pretty big tell tale sign is the daily gear request made by guild members...we have at least 15-20 requests a day for stun guns. Let’s be honest all guilds probably see this daily except the high end ones. One place to get said stuns guns is the shard shop...make it easier to get this stuns guns with this change is to keep the cost as it is now instead of doubling. Plus add them to the guild store (the only reason they’re not there is guns were/are the gear wall with older toons)...as now kyros are the gear wall on new toons. So if we are helping newer players with shards, on the accelerated path, shouldn’t they be helped with the gear wall on gear level 7 or 8?

    I posed a question. You are not looking at all player point of view whatsoever. I'm not talking about -this change- either, I'm talking about the claim that gear crunch is ever getting worse and asked for what metric you are deciding that to be the case. -still needing guns- is not much of a proof as everyone still needs guns.

    Let me try to understand...everyone still needs stun guns and we do not have hundreds laying around to scavenge. We still need them because of old gear walls and many new toon still have them. We have limited stores to purchase them in. We have more toons then years ago...we have had gear levels 9-12.5 added in the last few years that may also need stun guns. You are now trying to accelerate shard acquisition with no decent way to improve gear acquisition to accommodate...seems fishy to me. Are they buying time to where six months down the road these newer players realize they have all the 7 star toons stuck at gear level 7 and then give up? I see it everyday in my guild as the churn is real. They need to do both!! Being able to have a little more purchasing power in the shard shop will probably go along way to keep the players around. FYI, I am using stun guns as the example as we all know for newer players these are the problem.

    They never said they didn't plan to adjust gear too. Just that they are doing shards first since they affect gear (shard shop).

    I read that as they want more information before adjusting gear (so they don't have to turn around and nerf it because they went too far. Cause that would go over well.)

    You can believe them or not. But reading the release as a statement that they aren't touching gear at some point is just dishonest.
  • Kyno
    30042 posts Moderator
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    ea/cg cant do something to help the community without taking something away. so they give one thing but take something else away. as a player that has been around since nov 2015 when the game started i know ea/cg doesnt care about me anymore. thats the statement they make when they do something for new players and take something away from us longtime players on a 5th year anniversary change. thats how i see it. if you do something for the community it should universally benefit the community. i am all for helping newer players but not at the detriment of the majority of the community.

    I agree wholeheartedly on your comment. I am close if not a day one player. I have read all the past Q&A’s and provided feedback to surveys to all see it ignored (i.e. gear crunch) The game made it five years on the backs of us long term players. I am all for helping newer players as they have way more characters to farm than we did...however the gear acquisition has no way kept up. A nice gesture of keeping the shard shop cost the same, as it is now, instead of doubling it would have helped EVERYONE and would have been seen as them listening to their player base...especially after kyro addition under the guise it would help “diversify” the gear requirements to only turn into another gear wall. What is the plan for year 6 anniversary? What will be taken away then? We have had more nerfs in 2020 than content. Think about that!!

    How do you assess gear acquisition not keeping up?

    When I look at the evolution of my roster it's not as bad as majority claims. To give an idea of the conditions, f2p, both arena top income, very rarely buy gear but always 3x farm. At the time g13 was introduced I had 80 g12s. Right now I have 65 g13s and 63 g12s. I bet g13 count will exceed previous g12 count before the new gear thingie is here. Stun things are waning as a bottleneck for me while kyro and fleet g12+ needs (especially mk12 furnace and stun cuffs) are becoming more prominent. This is very much by design and everyone hits it at some point.

    You are looking at it from your roster and your point of view. I am looking at it from an all player view as I see what my needs are but also that of my guild. A pretty big tell tale sign is the daily gear request made by guild members...we have at least 15-20 requests a day for stun guns. Let’s be honest all guilds probably see this daily except the high end ones. One place to get said stuns guns is the shard shop...make it easier to get this stuns guns with this change is to keep the cost as it is now instead of doubling. Plus add them to the guild store (the only reason they’re not there is guns were/are the gear wall with older toons)...as now kyros are the gear wall on new toons. So if we are helping newer players with shards, on the accelerated path, shouldn’t they be helped with the gear wall on gear level 7 or 8?

    I posed a question. You are not looking at all player point of view whatsoever. I'm not talking about -this change- either, I'm talking about the claim that gear crunch is ever getting worse and asked for what metric you are deciding that to be the case. -still needing guns- is not much of a proof as everyone still needs guns.

    Let me try to understand...everyone still needs stun guns and we do not have hundreds laying around to scavenge. We still need them because of old gear walls and many new toon still have them. We have limited stores to purchase them in. We have more toons then years ago...we have had gear levels 9-12.5 added in the last few years that may also need stun guns. You are now trying to accelerate shard acquisition with no decent way to improve gear acquisition to accommodate...seems fishy to me. Are they buying time to where six months down the road these newer players realize they have all the 7 star toons stuck at gear level 7 and then give up? I see it everyday in my guild as the churn is real. They need to do both!! Being able to have a little more purchasing power in the shard shop will probably go along way to keep the players around. FYI, I am using stun guns as the example as we all know for newer players these are the problem.

    I'm not saying this is a complete offset, or should be considered "the whole fix", but you are bypassing an important part if this change.

    If a new player does nothing different, they will finish a toon in half the time, which now leaves them more time/energy/crystals to farm gear. I agree this should not be seen as the end all be all of the situation, but it is a decent improvement to the situation, on that side too.

    Yes players can still make mistakes and use this to farm every character to 7* and try to be too wide in their goals and dig themselves in a whole, but this has always and will always be a possibility.

    I glad you see it as part of a fix and not an entire fix. However all CG is doing is kicking the can down the road. Why is it so linear? Fix some of this issue now...why wait to see what these changes do for the economy. They already know. They’re gathering data to see if crystal purchases increase enough (as data shows players are more willing to quickly gear toons that hit 7 stars) to offset players leaving the game. If the data is not positive then they will turn the spigot up a little. Again, almost all complaints in my guild are gear related not shard acquisition related. Judging by the thousands of forums threads on this topic I assume most concur.

    Well since one has an impact on the other, they made a decision to implement them as 2 different elements to allow one to settle in and give them data on how best to handle the other one.

    It would be a hugely involved project to try and do it all at once. No they cannot fully predict how this will effect everyone. The shard situation is primarily going to benefit early/mid game, gear effects everyone, but still needs to be done in a balance.

    I love all the conspiracy theories about what's going on. Its fun to read.

    Yes, in your guild that may be the case, what's the average GP in your guild?

    Gear is always going to be an issue, the income has increased over time, and will continue to do so. They already made a note that they have an eye on the gear situation, but cannot commit to anything publicly until things are more "real". This is a step one in a long, multi step process. They have acknowledged that.
  • Guild mate just spent 3,000,000 ally points and got 73,000 SSC for his trouble.

    Some simple math says, for this example, 41 ally points = 1 SSC
    uet7egs2t9ld.jpg
  • Kyno
    30042 posts Moderator
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    ea/cg cant do something to help the community without taking something away. so they give one thing but take something else away. as a player that has been around since nov 2015 when the game started i know ea/cg doesnt care about me anymore. thats the statement they make when they do something for new players and take something away from us longtime players on a 5th year anniversary change. thats how i see it. if you do something for the community it should universally benefit the community. i am all for helping newer players but not at the detriment of the majority of the community.

    I agree wholeheartedly on your comment. I am close if not a day one player. I have read all the past Q&A’s and provided feedback to surveys to all see it ignored (i.e. gear crunch) The game made it five years on the backs of us long term players. I am all for helping newer players as they have way more characters to farm than we did...however the gear acquisition has no way kept up. A nice gesture of keeping the shard shop cost the same, as it is now, instead of doubling it would have helped EVERYONE and would have been seen as them listening to their player base...especially after kyro addition under the guise it would help “diversify” the gear requirements to only turn into another gear wall. What is the plan for year 6 anniversary? What will be taken away then? We have had more nerfs in 2020 than content. Think about that!!

    How do you assess gear acquisition not keeping up?

    When I look at the evolution of my roster it's not as bad as majority claims. To give an idea of the conditions, f2p, both arena top income, very rarely buy gear but always 3x farm. At the time g13 was introduced I had 80 g12s. Right now I have 65 g13s and 63 g12s. I bet g13 count will exceed previous g12 count before the new gear thingie is here. Stun things are waning as a bottleneck for me while kyro and fleet g12+ needs (especially mk12 furnace and stun cuffs) are becoming more prominent. This is very much by design and everyone hits it at some point.

    You are looking at it from your roster and your point of view. I am looking at it from an all player view as I see what my needs are but also that of my guild. A pretty big tell tale sign is the daily gear request made by guild members...we have at least 15-20 requests a day for stun guns. Let’s be honest all guilds probably see this daily except the high end ones. One place to get said stuns guns is the shard shop...make it easier to get this stuns guns with this change is to keep the cost as it is now instead of doubling. Plus add them to the guild store (the only reason they’re not there is guns were/are the gear wall with older toons)...as now kyros are the gear wall on new toons. So if we are helping newer players with shards, on the accelerated path, shouldn’t they be helped with the gear wall on gear level 7 or 8?

    I posed a question. You are not looking at all player point of view whatsoever. I'm not talking about -this change- either, I'm talking about the claim that gear crunch is ever getting worse and asked for what metric you are deciding that to be the case. -still needing guns- is not much of a proof as everyone still needs guns.

    Let me try to understand...everyone still needs stun guns and we do not have hundreds laying around to scavenge. We still need them because of old gear walls and many new toon still have them. We have limited stores to purchase them in. We have more toons then years ago...we have had gear levels 9-12.5 added in the last few years that may also need stun guns. You are now trying to accelerate shard acquisition with no decent way to improve gear acquisition to accommodate...seems fishy to me. Are they buying time to where six months down the road these newer players realize they have all the 7 star toons stuck at gear level 7 and then give up? I see it everyday in my guild as the churn is real. They need to do both!! Being able to have a little more purchasing power in the shard shop will probably go along way to keep the players around. FYI, I am using stun guns as the example as we all know for newer players these are the problem.

    See, this was the topic I was responding to. Now you made it about new players.

    "I agree wholeheartedly on your comment. I am close if not a day one player. I have read all the past Q&A’s and provided feedback to surveys to all see it ignored (i.e. gear crunch) The game made it five years on the backs of us long term players. I am all for helping newer players as they have way more characters to farm than we did...however the gear acquisition has no way kept up."

    So by what metric are you saying gear acquisition hasn't kept up for veteran players? I put my situation out there as an example old gear needs becoming less of a crunch, while the new ones become the real deal.

    To make sure we are on the same page, I made my position about ally points clear a few messages ago which I perfectly agree with the current planned loss is not acceptable.

    It’s both as we all play the same game...so the target change is for newer players and specifically targets shards. Which is great. However, now this change effects all players (i.e. shard shop changes and the bronzium issue). Why double the cost in the shard shop? Both player groups have a common issue of gear acquisition...they may be slightly different based on toon and its gear requirements but it’s real. Why not help all?

    Because the less impact this change has on gear, the easier it is for them to get into the gear economy.

    There is a method for fine tuning things, changing too many variables is never a good idea when doing that. It can make the next step take longer as you need to let things settle to get a baseline.

    Also, as I said, the newer group that this is meant to impact is indirectly getting a boost on the ability to gear. This change was stated to be focused on nre players and leave it equal for older. Yes I think we all agree they missed the mark on the even part, hopefully we can get this ironed out quickly.
  • scuba
    12680 posts Member
    scuba wrote: »
    Mace_Windu wrote: »
    There was an idea... why don't they half the amount of shard shop currency you get from accelerated characters and leave everything else to do with the shard shop alone? this would fix the bronzium ''problem'' while leaving everything else exactly how it is and how it's going to be.

    The idea, which I give them credit for, is to keep the shard shop neutral.
    With the current plan accelerated characters are obtained at double the rate every where except Bronzium
    If you half the shard shop currency from accelerated characters and leave shard shop prices the same you are still Bronzium characters are still going to have the same issue because the aquistion rate is not changing
    The problem is they can't (for some technical reason) change the bronzium rate

    They could add some of the characters shards for bronizum characters to other events as a temp fix. Like throw 50 boba shards in a GC one week. Or what ever number required to even it out.

    That would be better than adjusting ally points.

    Except players do different things with allypoints
    Some open lots of packs some (like me) barely open the free ones.

    Everything I got from this change with what they are trying to achieve is to accelerate the shard farm for these older characters and keep everything else the neutral.
    To do this the Shard Shop Currency for bronzium also needs to be adjusted in some way, so that a player gets ~ the same as what they where getting before the change based on what they are doing.
    IMO the best way, if they can't change the number of shards dropped from bronzium is to, as ultra suggested, cut the cost in half until they can get around the "technical" issue.
    for those that spend allypoints on bronzium this should keep it neutral, which is what it seems like they are trying to achieve.
    It doesn't change how much people have to buy from the weekly shipment as the acquition of allypoints doesn't change.
    and it will be an easy change to revert if/when they figure it out, which I do believe they will figure it out, I just don't have confidence it will be anytime soon (TM)

    Giving extra shards in events sounds good and all however it would be more rewarding to a player like me who doesn't spend allypoints in bronzium and neutral or still on the negative side for a player that does spend allypoints
  • Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Fieldgulls wrote: »
    ea/cg cant do something to help the community without taking something away. so they give one thing but take something else away. as a player that has been around since nov 2015 when the game started i know ea/cg doesnt care about me anymore. thats the statement they make when they do something for new players and take something away from us longtime players on a 5th year anniversary change. thats how i see it. if you do something for the community it should universally benefit the community. i am all for helping newer players but not at the detriment of the majority of the community.

    I agree wholeheartedly on your comment. I am close if not a day one player. I have read all the past Q&A’s and provided feedback to surveys to all see it ignored (i.e. gear crunch) The game made it five years on the backs of us long term players. I am all for helping newer players as they have way more characters to farm than we did...however the gear acquisition has no way kept up. A nice gesture of keeping the shard shop cost the same, as it is now, instead of doubling it would have helped EVERYONE and would have been seen as them listening to their player base...especially after kyro addition under the guise it would help “diversify” the gear requirements to only turn into another gear wall. What is the plan for year 6 anniversary? What will be taken away then? We have had more nerfs in 2020 than content. Think about that!!

    How do you assess gear acquisition not keeping up?

    When I look at the evolution of my roster it's not as bad as majority claims. To give an idea of the conditions, f2p, both arena top income, very rarely buy gear but always 3x farm. At the time g13 was introduced I had 80 g12s. Right now I have 65 g13s and 63 g12s. I bet g13 count will exceed previous g12 count before the new gear thingie is here. Stun things are waning as a bottleneck for me while kyro and fleet g12+ needs (especially mk12 furnace and stun cuffs) are becoming more prominent. This is very much by design and everyone hits it at some point.

    You are looking at it from your roster and your point of view. I am looking at it from an all player view as I see what my needs are but also that of my guild. A pretty big tell tale sign is the daily gear request made by guild members...we have at least 15-20 requests a day for stun guns. Let’s be honest all guilds probably see this daily except the high end ones. One place to get said stuns guns is the shard shop...make it easier to get this stuns guns with this change is to keep the cost as it is now instead of doubling. Plus add them to the guild store (the only reason they’re not there is guns were/are the gear wall with older toons)...as now kyros are the gear wall on new toons. So if we are helping newer players with shards, on the accelerated path, shouldn’t they be helped with the gear wall on gear level 7 or 8?

    I posed a question. You are not looking at all player point of view whatsoever. I'm not talking about -this change- either, I'm talking about the claim that gear crunch is ever getting worse and asked for what metric you are deciding that to be the case. -still needing guns- is not much of a proof as everyone still needs guns.

    Let me try to understand...everyone still needs stun guns and we do not have hundreds laying around to scavenge. We still need them because of old gear walls and many new toon still have them. We have limited stores to purchase them in. We have more toons then years ago...we have had gear levels 9-12.5 added in the last few years that may also need stun guns. You are now trying to accelerate shard acquisition with no decent way to improve gear acquisition to accommodate...seems fishy to me. Are they buying time to where six months down the road these newer players realize they have all the 7 star toons stuck at gear level 7 and then give up? I see it everyday in my guild as the churn is real. They need to do both!! Being able to have a little more purchasing power in the shard shop will probably go along way to keep the players around. FYI, I am using stun guns as the example as we all know for newer players these are the problem.

    See, this was the topic I was responding to. Now you made it about new players.

    "I agree wholeheartedly on your comment. I am close if not a day one player. I have read all the past Q&A’s and provided feedback to surveys to all see it ignored (i.e. gear crunch) The game made it five years on the backs of us long term players. I am all for helping newer players as they have way more characters to farm than we did...however the gear acquisition has no way kept up."

    So by what metric are you saying gear acquisition hasn't kept up for veteran players? I put my situation out there as an example old gear needs becoming less of a crunch, while the new ones become the real deal.

    To make sure we are on the same page, I made my position about ally points clear a few messages ago which I perfectly agree with the current planned loss is not acceptable.

    It’s both as we all play the same game...so the target change is for newer players and specifically targets shards. Which is great. However, now this change effects all players (i.e. shard shop changes and the bronzium issue). Why double the cost in the shard shop? Both player groups have a common issue of gear acquisition...they may be slightly different based on toon and its gear requirements but it’s real. Why not help all?

    This is going backwards at it. The new change is about doubling old toon shards. It's not trying to do anything about gear. All the other changes related to it is caused by several systems connected to shards.

    If there was no bronzium issue we wouldn't even be talking about gear in relation to the update. Whatever else is in the plans is up in the air right now.
  • Firefox54
    38 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    IMO ... just fix the Bronzium packs. I understand that if we farm older toons to 7* faster we will have more energy to get gear ... but that will be offset (to some degree) by cutting gear we get from the shard shop in half. This may/may not give us more gear (don't have the time today to do the math or read through the entirety of the forum). For new toons, this will clearly be a net loss in the amount of gear that can be collected.

    The worst thing (in CG's viewpoint) that could happen by fixing the Bronzium packs now is that we might actually get a little more gear than we currently get over the long-term ... and that's the big crunch in the game. I, as an older player, am rarely concerned with getting my toons to 7* (sometimes a ship now with GLs but not toons), but gear is the crunch. So, anything the reduces my ability to get gear is a potential negative.

    Finally, yes, a number of players are skeptical when CG makes a change that, in the end, we're going to be worse off than before (let's be honest, they don't have a great community track record). If they fixed the Bronzium concern now, without tweaking other areas like drop rates, they'd likely have no one in the community questioning this change.

    CG ... just throw out some goodwill and adjust the Bronzium packs now ... the money will still flow into the game ... and you'll make the entire player base happy.

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