[MEGA] Road Ahead: July 2021

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    wilhud wrote: »
    Since three of the four characters being nerfed against GLs are part of the primary JML squad used most commonly, what is the plan for this squad moving forward? I see that Rey and SEE are receiving adjustments, but nothing about JML. His viability against other GLs seems like it is going to take a fairly big hit as a result. Will there be improvements to that squad or are there any new characters that we will be getting to bolster his squad? Or am I just not understanding these new changes and they will continue to be viable in countering other GLs?


    Yes, exactly...we spend a year or more unlocking GAS, JKL, then JML (just unlocked JML in the past 2 months). Excited to use him in arena and now this...
    Why am I spending money on this game and investing a lot of time when this is the reward - to have the characters nerfed?
    It’s not just GAS, JKL, Wat - but JML too. JML is good because his team is good. He is the worst GL on his own. I farmed him because the the characters you use with him and use to get him are (now were) great. I hope there is some plan to buff JML just like Rey and SEE. But as it stands right now, his team seems much weaker.
    If ignoring defense is causing so many issues with interactions with GL’s, why not change the GL unique to prevent these attacks from ignoring defense on GL’s?
    The problem when you nerf characters is you are diminishing player’s investments, and that is not something any player is going to be happy about.
    If you ask me if there is a reason to spend money on this game right now, until something changes, the answer is clearly “No”.
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    The only thing CG HAS to listen to is their bottom line. We will be heard if we stop spending. So if you hate the changes, don't drop another penny on this game.
  • Wimma
    152 posts Member
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    robv1571 wrote: »
    If ignoring defense is causing so many issues with interactions with GL’s, why not change the GL unique to prevent these attacks from ignoring defense on GL’s?
    The problem when you nerf characters is you are diminishing player’s investments, and that is not something any player is going to be happy about.

    This. Nice summary.
    Seems to be other motives, but in the end the player base will either accept it or vote with their wallets.
    Time will tell.
  • Rebmes
    376 posts Member
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    would be nice if Wat's weapon tech weren't nerfed so hard

    otherwise, is anyone really surprised about any of this? something's got to give, sometimes, in order to keep making new content. And new content is happening, Conquest in particular which is available to everyone, and who knows what's coming next. I'm still holding out for a new use for our ships, and enjoying (and grinding) Conquest meanwhile.

    Whale vs f2p sounds more like a matchmaking issue to me, not sure how these last two GL's are more available to one group over the other.

    The latest content has been aimed at the late game, mid-high GP players, and isn't it fitting? We might be nearing the end of content from the Clone Wars era for some time, and the best had been saved for last (: makes it easier to swallow the balance changes, for me anyway.
  • Mire
    6 posts Member
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    i am 6 mln with 5 gl and 14 r8 toons, spending 250 dollars monthly. was very happy with new toons, then read about defense nerf for my most liked toon GAS and for defense nerf for WAT. honestly i dont mind any other changes, but i need GC to not to change this "ignore defense" for those 2 toons, as it is my only way i learnt to play last two years. without those two i am lost in raid and GA, TW and TB. If you changed it, i will not spent 2 years more for learning new ways to play and building squads and i will have to go F2P mode. if CG is thinking about whales, they have enough resources farmed to adapt. but there are still challengers like myself, who started just 2-3 years ago. i can spend money, but what is a point is spending more if in two years again CG will change half of rules ( and inflate value of toons you already got ). and GAS ( ignore defense, still have armour shard, as every third new toon now) and WAT ( and his attack tech ) are not even so important in countering GL. Kindly please, CG dont change those as for me you are crashing 2 years of farming, adjust mods, learning new tactics and my participation in almost all aspects of the game.
  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
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    Thinking on this more, with the nerfs to GAS and JKL against other GL’s, they need to buff JML. If they’re going to destroy his supporting cast with this nonsense then he needs to get a work over to make him more viable to make other jedi better to make up for this against other GL’s.
  • Mire
    6 posts Member
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    have read now that jkl ignore defense will be removed as well. omg, what was a problem with this ? if CG is planning to introduce armor upgrade ( similar like relic, there is still one corner left next to relic indication ),
    just add some hp or protection, not crash the game. i remember gas and jkl were not acquired for free, but you need ton of toons and gear for get them as well. if CG need to earn more money on this, just please keep this "ignore armor"it with r8 or r9
  • Phoenixeon
    1842 posts Member
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    Sounds like you guys never benefits those nerfed (against GL) chars somewhere else, like geoTBs, conquests or malaktic challenges.
  • Zumwan
    359 posts Member
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    Aside from all that's been said,
    -> please don't make it harder for F2P to complete Conquest. I don't normally face GLs in other game modes, so please don't make it impossible for me to beat GAS in Sector 2 (given that he has been buffed vs non GLs) and then the following sectors with GLs.
    -> given that all nerfed chars got some sort of buff to counteract that (the Devs said they wanted to generally conserve a characters usability) why isn't wat getting the same treatment?
  • BryGuy2k
    198 posts Member
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    LordGrahck wrote: »
    I don't know if this has come up yet or not, but I'm curious about something.

    If the non-GL counters are getting nerfed, and GLs are getting lumped in with Raid Bosses, does that mean that only a GL can do damage to a GL? Also, does this mean that you MUST use the GL as your lead as opposed to using a different toon's lead with the GL in the team, such as using JML under a JKR lead? What if you use one of these soon-to-be nerfed toons with a GL, such as Badstilla or Thrawn with SEE, will that mean that they won't be effective against the GL, even if they're in a group with one? Will the GL's be tweeked to allow these nerfed toons to work as they should under their leaderships?

    Without GAS and JKL there is no JML squad that can take out another GL period
  • Nick_74
    72 posts Member
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    It’s clear reading here and chatting with my mates that many mid level players will drop out now.
    For us with no or few GL our whole roster got nuked.
    We face instant losses both in GAC, arena and TW.
    Since we also get lower payout than the players above us we cannot catch up. There is for example NO way of getting relic 8 materials for us.

    I’m sure that when they announce something like this they understand it. So why alienate so many users?
    How can the user baser ever grow with a model like this?
    When lower level players only role is to be punching bags for the big spenders?

    It only makes sense if they are planning to drop SWGOH and launch a new game.
    They stop developing new content and then stop the server 1 or most likely 2 years from now.
    It would be sad because it was a great game, but it just a game and when you really realise this it makes no sense to get so involved or to spend your hard earned money on it.
  • Starslayer
    2420 posts Member
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    To the people saying it isn't a F2P vs a P2P/Whale issue...it is.

    Whales will almost always have more Galactic Legends than those who are F2P. These changes will affect Galactic Legend counters greatly, which as a result, affects F2P players much more (but not solely) than whales. Whales will, naturally, have more counters which would give them an unfair advantage in game modes like GAC and TW. Therein lies the difference.

    Can’t talk about tw, but I don’t think you fully understand gac matchmaking. You and your friend start playing the game. You’re ftp, he’s a whale. He buys all the prerequisites to unlock slkr while you slowly farm your first order. You’ll never face each other in gac because you don’t have the same gp with your top characters.
    You will face each other in arena though, and yes, he’ll have a crazy advantage there. But whaling or not doesn’t change anything for gac. If your opponent has more gl than you in gac, it doesn’t mean that he spent more, it means he made different choices in development that led him to more GLs.

  • Ravens1113
    5215 posts Member
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    BryGuy2k wrote: »
    LordGrahck wrote: »
    I don't know if this has come up yet or not, but I'm curious about something.

    If the non-GL counters are getting nerfed, and GLs are getting lumped in with Raid Bosses, does that mean that only a GL can do damage to a GL? Also, does this mean that you MUST use the GL as your lead as opposed to using a different toon's lead with the GL in the team, such as using JML under a JKR lead? What if you use one of these soon-to-be nerfed toons with a GL, such as Badstilla or Thrawn with SEE, will that mean that they won't be effective against the GL, even if they're in a group with one? Will the GL's be tweeked to allow these nerfed toons to work as they should under their leaderships?

    Without GAS and JKL there is no JML squad that can take out another GL period

    While I want to disagree with you, I can’t think of a single competition that would even still best SLKR. JML is a very underwhelming GL. His ultimate ability can only be useful in arena, TW, GAC….basically in 99% of the game without being in the lead. Even when he is, that ultimate is the slowest to charge. Now whether he is lead or someone else is (JKR), He also needs a good supporting cast with him, namely JKL and Hyoda….as well as GAS. Those are his damage dealers. If you nerf the staples of his team, then JML also needs tweaks to his character to bring him on par with the other GL’s
  • Ultra
    11543 posts Moderator
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    BryGuy2k wrote: »
    LordGrahck wrote: »
    I don't know if this has come up yet or not, but I'm curious about something.

    If the non-GL counters are getting nerfed, and GLs are getting lumped in with Raid Bosses, does that mean that only a GL can do damage to a GL? Also, does this mean that you MUST use the GL as your lead as opposed to using a different toon's lead with the GL in the team, such as using JML under a JKR lead? What if you use one of these soon-to-be nerfed toons with a GL, such as Badstilla or Thrawn with SEE, will that mean that they won't be effective against the GL, even if they're in a group with one? Will the GL's be tweeked to allow these nerfed toons to work as they should under their leaderships?

    Without GAS and JKL there is no JML squad that can take out another GL period

    They said tanks are really good at r9, and JKL will now do true damage to tanks (ignoring defense), so he's better versus tanks

    GAS still has his cooldown increase and max health reduction on toons that aren't GLs, and he still has some armor penetration, and dealing 2x damage to dazed enemies etc

    JKL does a lot of damage to GLs now with Repulse (he does like ~200k damage to CRancor last time i used it)

    Also, JML can still take out GLs using his lead special, dealing true damage = to his base protection times 0.6 (IIRC)

    How can he not take out another GL?
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    Changes look disappointing on paper, but hopefully the sky doesn't burn when they are implemented and its not just going to be purely GL's vs GL's until the end of time.

    Also seeing as they have over 200 billion subscribers, I look forward to seeing how Ahnald does in the speed grand arena.
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    They said tanks are really good at r9, and JKL will now do true damage to tanks (ignoring defense), so he's better versus tanks

    Yeah, but that's a nerf to JMLS not a bonus: there is no Tank GL other than JMLS. So what you're saying is that JMLS isn't nerfed because you can take him to r9 if you want to and once you get there, JKL will still have an easier time killing him than killing SLKR.
    GAS still has his cooldown increase and max health reduction on toons that aren't GLs,

    But, again, we're talking about taking out GLs, not nonGLs.

    I mean, I appreciate all the knowledge you're bringing, but why are you addressing performance against nonGLs when the issue raised is performance against other GLs?
    Also, JML can still take out GLs using his lead special, dealing true damage = to his base protection times 0.6 (IIRC)
    How can he not take out another GL?

    Have you ever tried to take out SLKR with JMLS one on one, after all the side toons are dead on both sides?

    JMLS never wins. Never. Not in that situation. You can ask (as you have) how is this possible that he can't take out another GL, but... he can't Whether it's Rey, Kenobi, SLKR, or SEE, there is no GL that JMLS can beat one on one.

    As a tank, JMLS's strength is keeping his damage dealers alive, not dealing damage himself. If you nerf his damage dealers, you nerf his strategy.
    JKL does a lot of damage to GLs now with Repulse

    This is the only point you make that actually addresses the concern. We'll have to see how it works out, but SLKR has no problem regenerating health. JKL has to use this early to keep the FO tanks from counterattacking & hastening SLKR's Ult while you're taking them out. So you're going to strip SLKR's protection early, but then he's going to be free of JKL's Repulse for a good long time, with its cooldown of 4 and JKL's low base speed.

    Maybe this change will be enough ta make a difference, or maybe the situation won't be different since by the time the tanks are gone & I'm ready to focus on SLKR he's usually stripped of protection anyway, and he never has a problem topping up his health with Health Steal unless you're focussing him down with multiple attacks for every one he gets.

    Again, it could help, but we don't know yet. And nothing you've said changes the fact that a nerf to JMLS's damage dealers is effectively a nerf to JMLS.

    If it takes longer to get through SLKR's tanks or if the one positive change to JKLS isn't enough to compensate for the nerfs to both GAS & JKLS, then the JMLS counter to SLKR could be in trouble.

    No one is saying that we know that JMLS is useless or couldn't possibly beat SLKR now (or at least I don't remember anyone saying that). We've just been saying that a nerf to JMLS's damage dealers is a nerf to JMLS (which is true), and that we're worried about those changes (which is also true).

    It's disappointing that so much of what you say (like GAS's performance against nonGLs) misses the point. It forces us to wonder if you truly understand out concerns at all.
  • Antwon120
    26 posts Member
    edited July 2021
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    Raid bosses are beatable by non-raid boss teams.
  • Jenjhys
    272 posts Member
    edited July 2021
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    Refund should be available for all toon we up to work with the toon you are going to rework...
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    I’m starting to believe this is just a big ruse to hide the fact that we need tusken raider for GL Vader. They’ll go back on the nerfs, removing relic requirements for the new capital ship and cancel relic 9 and everybody will be super happy and think relic tuskens is perfectly fine :D
  • Starslayer
    2420 posts Member
    edited July 2021
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    Starslayer wrote: »
    To the people saying it isn't a F2P vs a P2P/Whale issue...it is.

    Whales will almost always have more Galactic Legends than those who are F2P. These changes will affect Galactic Legend counters greatly, which as a result, affects F2P players much more (but not solely) than whales. Whales will, naturally, have more counters which would give them an unfair advantage in game modes like GAC and TW. Therein lies the difference.

    Can’t talk about tw, but I don’t think you fully understand gac matchmaking. You and your friend start playing the game. You’re ftp, he’s a whale. He buys all the prerequisites to unlock slkr while you slowly farm your first order. You’ll never face each other in gac because you don’t have the same gp with your top characters.
    You will face each other in arena though, and yes, he’ll have a crazy advantage there. But whaling or not doesn’t change anything for gac. If your opponent has more gl than you in gac, it doesn’t mean that he spent more, it means he made different choices in development that led him to more GLs.

    I understand GAC matchmaking but I don't think you do.

    I'm at 4.4 million GP with a single Galactic Legend. I've already faced 2 opponents this GAC with no Galactic Legend but similar GP as mine. Under these new changes, I would win by default by placing my Galactic Legend on defense, knowing that my opponent has no counter to it.

    We could discuss this later, but it wasn’t your point. You said that whales will have an unfair advantage in gac because they’ll have more GLs. If I understand your concern, I guess that you’re a whale and your opponents were not ? Or maybe I,didn’t understand your point at all, which is always a possibility.

  • Wrathe
    204 posts Member
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    I liked the format (agree w/ having text side by side available too).

    I'm excited about making DEF relevant again. Tanks get blown up like nothing now. I mean, JML, our GL Tank only ever felt tanky w/ Bast/Wat. That's no good.

    That aside, more DEF may mean longer fights, are we extending fight timers?
    As it is now, JML vs JMK matches run to the wire w/ all the animations and assists.
    Making tanks tougher is going to extend this.

    Also, for those saying this kills JML, I think this highlights the value of JML's ult.
    True Damage's value is greatly diminished when everyone bypasses DEF anyways.
  • Starslayer
    2420 posts Member
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    Wrathe wrote: »
    I liked the format (agree w/ having text side by side available too).

    I'm excited about making DEF relevant again. Tanks get blown up like nothing now. I mean, JML, our GL Tank only ever felt tanky w/ Bast/Wat. That's no good.

    That aside, more DEF may mean longer fights, are we extending fight timers?
    As it is now, JML vs JMK matches run to the wire w/ all the animations and assists.
    Making tanks tougher is going to extend this.

    Also, for those saying this kills JML, I think this highlights the value of JML's ult.
    True Damage's value is greatly diminished when everyone bypasses DEF anyways.

    How does the ultimate interact with defense ? I’m missing something.

  • Wrathe
    204 posts Member
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    Starslayer wrote: »
    Wrathe wrote: »
    I liked the format (agree w/ having text side by side available too).

    I'm excited about making DEF relevant again. Tanks get blown up like nothing now. I mean, JML, our GL Tank only ever felt tanky w/ Bast/Wat. That's no good.

    That aside, more DEF may mean longer fights, are we extending fight timers?
    As it is now, JML vs JMK matches run to the wire w/ all the animations and assists.
    Making tanks tougher is going to extend this.

    Also, for those saying this kills JML, I think this highlights the value of JML's ult.
    True Damage's value is greatly diminished when everyone bypasses DEF anyways.

    How does the ultimate interact with defense ? I’m missing something.

    Technically, it's his Lead. I think I just associate his Lead w/ his Ultimate as you basically never see it unless he's lead. Inherited Teachings is specifically what I think will have increased value.
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    I say that lo g time ago, bring back assault battles 2days, I k ow it's not much more but extra 120 kyros monthly. Same you can reduce little price for gac currency, and make rewards double from tw, mean gear. And finally, give better rewards from.raids, at this moment 1#hstr dont give any g12+ full crafted.
  • Crayons
    565 posts Member
    edited July 2021
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    The one thing I can agree on

    The have made going for CLS, Darth Revan, GAS, and JKL worthless. No one is gonna farm for all that time anymore. They’ll go straight to galactic legend.

    All these wonderful characters will be bypassed unless required.
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    Crayons wrote: »
    The one thing I can agree on

    The have made going for CLS, Darth Revan, GAS, and JKL worthless. No one is gonna farm for all that time anymore. They’ll go straight to galactic legend.

    All these wonderful characters will be bypassed.

    Cls, gas and jkl are all prerequisites for GLs. Revans are debatable, but if you’re set on this strategy for gac, g12 revans/malak is low enough so it wont impact matchmaking and would give you very interesting characters that you’ll use on the field.
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    Last time i was writing any feedback about this game, was when vader gains his upgrade and become interesting character able to counter GLs.. it was good for the game.. im not stressed about other soft counters if cg nerf them, like GAS and JKL.. i get the point that armor needs to be relevant and i agree those changes that there is now gone that ignore armour ability.. but to say so.. i didnt find in ”new text box” that Vaders merciless would give that +50% CRIT DAMAGE.. i hope this will be typo or something misunderstond.. because if he wont have it then he becomes completle useless.. to say so.. if there is no change by pass enemy armour, then Vader should do double ammount of damage to kill GLs.. its real challenge to mod it that he could do that, and the whole team strategy should be different, as thrawn wont hold (rey example) so long.. but if vader crit damage is gone, then he is not able to kill even mon mothma team, and becomes just avarage pilot.. Other thing is about those GAC rounds., they will become extreamly poor.. as if there is only GL counter to GL teams, there is no reason to left any on offensive, as more banners are lost with those GL vs GL match ups than non GL match ups, so we will see five GL defence areas soon, six in the end of year.. and the whole game mod becomes competition who clear enemys one-two teams more effectively.. and in the worst case the win in most of battles are then gained by higher GP value.. (in draw situation) .. so this road ahead was in that way real disepointment.. and i hope you CG can rethink to save vaders abilities that there will be even a slight change to use that counter..
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