QGJ specifically says you can't kill a jedi with a "destroy" effect
Where, "an ability that instantly defeats you" is a destroy effect
Then, QGJ specifically says allies can't be destroyed
GAS doesn't prevent destroy effects
How about we flag a dev and we can get official answer. It has always been known that destroy abilities trump "cannot be defeated." If it has been a bug since Nilly first came out, then fine I'll concede the point.
To flag a dev to get an official answer... you submit a bug report
QGJ specifically says you can't kill a jedi with a "destroy" effect
Where, "an ability that instantly defeats you" is a destroy effect
Then, QGJ specifically says allies can't be destroyed
GAS doesn't prevent destroy effects
How about we flag a dev and we can get official answer. It has always been known that destroy abilities trump "cannot be defeated." If it has been a bug since Nilly first came out, then fine I'll concede the point.
QGJ omicron came out a few months ago, not since Nihilus has been around
To flag a dev to get an official answer... you submit a bug report
You said it was a bug so did you submit one?
I know it's not a bug so I don't need to submit one. If Kyno can get an answer from a dev, why can't you? There has been many times he has done that without using that excuse lmao.
In what other kit does "cannot be defeated" appear? Honest question.
Again, clearly, whoever wrote the text was just not being literal enough and should have used words that accurately reflect the function.
In the example you gave. JKR
It also says "for the rest of the turn". So unless there is a way to activate a destroy effect after reducing health to 1%, this has never been subject to one. However, based on the mechanics page, this follow up "can't be defeated" is also just a Health stat check.
Unending Loyalty would be another one. It also appears to just be health can't drop below 1. Although, I think it does stop the Thrawn ult from killing a ship... hmmm....
Bottom line. CG needs to by crystal clear in their kits. With the prevalence of destroy affect, they shouldn't use ambiguous terms like "cannot be defeated" if they mean "health can't be reduced to 0".
To flag a dev to get an official answer... you submit a bug report
You said it was a bug so did you submit one?
I know it's not a bug so I don't need to submit one. If Kyno can get an answer from a dev, why can't you? There has been many times he has done that without using that excuse lmao.
It also says "for the rest of the turn". So unless there is a way to activate a destroy effect after reducing health to 1%, this has never been subject to one. However, based on the mechanics page, this follow up "can't be defeated" is also just a Health stat check.
Unending Loyalty would be another one. It also appears to just be health can't drop below 1. Although, I think it does stop the Thrawn ult from killing a ship... hmmm....
Bottom line. CG needs to by crystal clear in their kits. With the prevalence of destroy affect, they shouldn't use ambiguous terms like "cannot be defeated" if they mean "health can't be reduced to 0".
You only asked where else it showed up 😉
But fair I'll give you that one. I agree, they're not great at writing kits.
To flag a dev to get an official answer... you submit a bug report
You said it was a bug so did you submit one?
I know it's not a bug so I don't need to submit one. If Kyno can get an answer from a dev, why can't you? There has been many times he has done that without using that excuse lmao.
Unless it specifically says "it cannot be defeated", it doesn't mean the same thing
Tell me what is the different then?
If you can't kill GAS while there is another 501st ally present. Except with a destroy effect.
Not being able to kill a jedi ally while QGJ is alive unless you use a destroy effect.
Cause they sure sound like the same thing just different words..
Gas reads that with other 501st allies present, he can’t drop below 100% health. Just as the same for when he standing that 501st allies can’t drop below 100% health. That doesn’t prevent them from being instantly defeated as instantly defeating someone doesn’t go through a health/protection damage check.
Same with JKR’s savior ability saying that when they would be reduced to 1% health. There’s not damage check or reduction to 1%, therefore there’s no ability kicking in for instant defeat abilities.
Still need more? Look at SLKR’s ultimate ability, depths of rage. It says he’s immune to damage, detrimental effects and CANT BE DEFEATED which is proven in the HSTR raid when DN uses his annihilate ability on SLKR but nothing happens.
If the kit reads, “can’t be defeated” then that means the unit can’t be defeated by any means. So if QGJ units can be defeated with him around still and no GL’s present, then it’s a bug.
To flag a dev to get an official answer... you submit a bug report
You said it was a bug so did you submit one?
I know it's not a bug so I don't need to submit one. If Kyno can get an answer from a dev, why can't you? There has been many times he has done that without using that excuse lmao.
because i don't have a oQGJ so I don't care
because i don't want to
Or maybe it's because you can't get the answer from a dev, and it's completely valid
To flag a dev to get an official answer... you submit a bug report
You said it was a bug so did you submit one?
I know it's not a bug so I don't need to submit one. If Kyno can get an answer from a dev, why can't you? There has been many times he has done that without using that excuse lmao.
because i don't have a oQGJ so I don't care
because i don't want to
Or maybe it's because you can't get the answer from a dev, and it's completely valid
So why are you in this thread? I thought you didn't care? 🤷♂️ it's fine if they ignore you.
Guess OP will never get a real answer cause the bug report site does nothing and no one wants to flag a Dev for you.
Unless it specifically says "it cannot be defeated", it doesn't mean the same thing
Tell me what is the different then?
If you can't kill GAS while there is another 501st ally present. Except with a destroy effect.
Not being able to kill a jedi ally while QGJ is alive unless you use a destroy effect.
Cause they sure sound like the same thing just different words..
Gas reads that with other 501st allies present, he can’t drop below 100% health. Just as the same for when he standing that 501st allies can’t drop below 100% health. That doesn’t prevent them from being instantly defeated as instantly defeating someone doesn’t go through a health/protection damage check.
Same with JKR’s savior ability saying that when they would be reduced to 1% health. There’s not damage check or reduction to 1%, therefore there’s no ability kicking in for instant defeat abilities.
Still need more? Look at SLKR’s ultimate ability, depths of rage. It says he’s immune to damage, detrimental effects and CANT BE DEFEATED which is proven in the HSTR raid when DN uses his annihilate ability on SLKR but nothing happens.
If the kit reads, “can’t be defeated” then that means the unit can’t be defeated by any means. So if QGJ units can be defeated with him around still and no GL’s present, then it’s a bug.
Imo this is spot on.
With 1 exception, jkr savior, if DN or mando got to take a turn right after savior activated and before the saved toon got to take turn. Then the toon should have “can’t be defeated for rest of turn”. But that would take perfect timing. If it’s happen sure it’s been overlooked.
QGJ cannot be defeated is active constantly from start of the battle, so it quickly exposes this.
Absolutely sounds like a bug!
Are there any other non-gl “cannot be defeated clauses”?
It seems the game doesn’t consider being “defeated” as going below 1% health.
The “defeated” character instantly goes to 0% health, but never crosses a health threshold along the way. The only way to prevent this are abilities that say the character “cannot be defeated”.
I know it doesn’t make sense from a logic standpoint, but that’s the way it seems to be.
oQGJ is definitely bugged, if Annihilate and Disintegrate are killing people despite GQJ being alive.
Gas reads that with other 501st allies present, he can’t drop below 100% health. Just as the same for when he standing that 501st allies can’t drop below 100% health. That doesn’t prevent them from being instantly defeated as instantly defeating someone doesn’t go through a health/protection damage check.
Same with JKR’s savior ability saying that when they would be reduced to 1% health. There’s not damage check or reduction to 1%, therefore there’s no ability kicking in for instant defeat abilities.
Still need more? Look at SLKR’s ultimate ability, depths of rage. It says he’s immune to damage, detrimental effects and CANT BE DEFEATED which is proven in the HSTR raid when DN uses his annihilate ability on SLKR but nothing happens.
If the kit reads, “can’t be defeated” then that means the unit can’t be defeated by any means. So if QGJ units can be defeated with him around still and no GL’s present, then it’s a bug.
You're proving my point with GAS. It is the exact same situation as QGJ, just worded differently. Insta kills dont care about any clause except ones that mention them.
Wow you mean that Nilly that has a completely different kit than the one we have? Almost like it's a raid boss and works differently from ours? But also for the fact it is a GL that calls out instakills in it kit? Wow great example!! It is a not a bug. It is poorly written kits, don't hate the player, hate the game.
And to boot, GLs unique only mentions they reduce destroy effects, no mention of not being able to be defeated. Wording and coding are 2 different things, neither of which CG is that great at.
Gas reads that with other 501st allies present, he can’t drop below 100% health. Just as the same for when he standing that 501st allies can’t drop below 100% health. That doesn’t prevent them from being instantly defeated as instantly defeating someone doesn’t go through a health/protection damage check.
Same with JKR’s savior ability saying that when they would be reduced to 1% health. There’s not damage check or reduction to 1%, therefore there’s no ability kicking in for instant defeat abilities.
Still need more? Look at SLKR’s ultimate ability, depths of rage. It says he’s immune to damage, detrimental effects and CANT BE DEFEATED which is proven in the HSTR raid when DN uses his annihilate ability on SLKR but nothing happens.
If the kit reads, “can’t be defeated” then that means the unit can’t be defeated by any means. So if QGJ units can be defeated with him around still and no GL’s present, then it’s a bug.
You're proving my point with GAS. It is the exact same situation as QGJ, just worded differently. Insta kills dont care about any clause except ones that mention them.
Wow you mean that Nilly that has a completely different kit than the one we have? Almost like it's a raid boss and works differently from ours? But also for the fact it is a GL that calls out instakills in it kit? Wow great example!! It is a not a bug. It is poorly written kits, don't hate the player, hate the game.
I’m not proving your point with gas. His kit reads “can’t drop below 100% health”. It’s a specific call out to health. QGJ says “can’t be defeated”
So they either messed up the wording which calls for another demand of omicron refunds since this indeed does change the identity of the omicron even further than the last nerf, or it’s a bug and not WAI.
Either way CG needs to address this but I’m sure TopCash will order Doja and Crumb to be hush hush on this because he’s just that awful of a dev/leader.
This thread was so sad to read. Ultra and Ravens are right.
Defeat and health reduced to 0 are not synonims. Different terms, different meanings. You can defeat a character by reducing its health to zero, but you can defeat them without doing so. Health to zero is only a subcategory of defeat.
QGJ's omicron is by definition bugged, because the effect does not match the description.
As for the interaction with instakills: based on description it is a faulty interaction, based on the coded effect it is wai.
Again, the conflict is between the text and the code.
In what other kit does "cannot be defeated" appear? Honest question.
Again, clearly, whoever wrote the text was just not being literal enough and should have used words that accurately reflect the function.
In the example you gave. JKR
It also says "for the rest of the turn". So unless there is a way to activate a destroy effect after reducing health to 1%, this has never been subject to one.
With the massively overpowered disk we should be able to test this in Crapquest.
Replies
To flag a dev to get an official answer... you submit a bug report
If Mando's Disintegrate was written as "do 50k damage and then if enemy survives, defeat them" then it would be applicable
QGJ omicron came out a few months ago, not since Nihilus has been around
You said it was a bug so did you submit one?
I know it's not a bug so I don't need to submit one. If Kyno can get an answer from a dev, why can't you? There has been many times he has done that without using that excuse lmao.
It also says "for the rest of the turn". So unless there is a way to activate a destroy effect after reducing health to 1%, this has never been subject to one. However, based on the mechanics page, this follow up "can't be defeated" is also just a Health stat check.
Unending Loyalty would be another one. It also appears to just be health can't drop below 1. Although, I think it does stop the Thrawn ult from killing a ship... hmmm....
Bottom line. CG needs to by crystal clear in their kits. With the prevalence of destroy affect, they shouldn't use ambiguous terms like "cannot be defeated" if they mean "health can't be reduced to 0".
Clearly it's because Kyno is their favorite. 🙄
You only asked where else it showed up 😉
But fair I'll give you that one. I agree, they're not great at writing kits.
because i don't have a oQGJ so I don't care
because i don't want to
Gas reads that with other 501st allies present, he can’t drop below 100% health. Just as the same for when he standing that 501st allies can’t drop below 100% health. That doesn’t prevent them from being instantly defeated as instantly defeating someone doesn’t go through a health/protection damage check.
Same with JKR’s savior ability saying that when they would be reduced to 1% health. There’s not damage check or reduction to 1%, therefore there’s no ability kicking in for instant defeat abilities.
Still need more? Look at SLKR’s ultimate ability, depths of rage. It says he’s immune to damage, detrimental effects and CANT BE DEFEATED which is proven in the HSTR raid when DN uses his annihilate ability on SLKR but nothing happens.
If the kit reads, “can’t be defeated” then that means the unit can’t be defeated by any means. So if QGJ units can be defeated with him around still and no GL’s present, then it’s a bug.
Or maybe it's because you can't get the answer from a dev, and it's completely valid
yeah that too
So why are you in this thread? I thought you didn't care? 🤷♂️ it's fine if they ignore you.
Guess OP will never get a real answer cause the bug report site does nothing and no one wants to flag a Dev for you.
Imo this is spot on.
With 1 exception, jkr savior, if DN or mando got to take a turn right after savior activated and before the saved toon got to take turn. Then the toon should have “can’t be defeated for rest of turn”. But that would take perfect timing. If it’s happen sure it’s been overlooked.
QGJ cannot be defeated is active constantly from start of the battle, so it quickly exposes this.
Absolutely sounds like a bug!
Are there any other non-gl “cannot be defeated clauses”?
So since it’ll never happen I wouldn’t get my hopes up of it being altered.
The “defeated” character instantly goes to 0% health, but never crosses a health threshold along the way. The only way to prevent this are abilities that say the character “cannot be defeated”.
I know it doesn’t make sense from a logic standpoint, but that’s the way it seems to be.
oQGJ is definitely bugged, if Annihilate and Disintegrate are killing people despite GQJ being alive.
You're proving my point with GAS. It is the exact same situation as QGJ, just worded differently. Insta kills dont care about any clause except ones that mention them.
Wow you mean that Nilly that has a completely different kit than the one we have? Almost like it's a raid boss and works differently from ours? But also for the fact it is a GL that calls out instakills in it kit? Wow great example!! It is a not a bug. It is poorly written kits, don't hate the player, hate the game.
There is also Dark Trooper and B1 Battle Droid, but their kits states can't be defeated OR destroyed.
CG isn't the best with consistent wording, let's be honest.
In my opinion it's WAI, but the description should probably be updated to remove the confusion.
I’m not proving your point with gas. His kit reads “can’t drop below 100% health”. It’s a specific call out to health. QGJ says “can’t be defeated”
So they either messed up the wording which calls for another demand of omicron refunds since this indeed does change the identity of the omicron even further than the last nerf, or it’s a bug and not WAI.
Either way CG needs to address this but I’m sure TopCash will order Doja and Crumb to be hush hush on this because he’s just that awful of a dev/leader.
@CG_SBCrumb_MINI @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI this kind of requires addressing. Please prove me wrong and give us some insight
Defeat and health reduced to 0 are not synonims. Different terms, different meanings. You can defeat a character by reducing its health to zero, but you can defeat them without doing so. Health to zero is only a subcategory of defeat.
QGJ's omicron is by definition bugged, because the effect does not match the description.
As for the interaction with instakills: based on description it is a faulty interaction, based on the coded effect it is wai.
Again, the conflict is between the text and the code.
With the massively overpowered disk we should be able to test this in Crapquest.
Destroy effects are intended to bypass the omicron.
lol
Why word "cannot be defeated" in QGJ's omicron if you are going to update every "cannot be defeated" Ability to bypass it
This is ridiculous. It specifically says “cannot be defeated”. Why use such misleading text in the ability description?
Because it's SWGoH. Nothing in this game is consistent or straightforward.
Always gotta go to the code to figure it out.