Is it ok for Reeva to kill GL on auto?

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Devian
676 posts Member
edited March 2023
Ones upon a time, on this forum, far-far away in some thread, devs said that GLs are ultimate characters. And even nerfed whole bunch of teams just for them to not counter GLs. And now we have one of the most hated characters in SW killing GLs on auto. Is it like its supposed to be? Some character killing GLs with lifters without even omicrons? Maybe some elaboration is required why change of rules for reva?

[CM - Edited for masked profanity]
Post edited by EA_Mako on

Replies

  • Options
    Lore stuff aside, this seems fine game balance wise. Reva may not be a GL, but she’s a high investment character whose faction has an extremely powerful Datacron right now. Making every GL the top of the food chain forever seems to limiting to the overall health of the game to me.
  • Devian
    676 posts Member
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    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Lore stuff aside, this seems fine game balance wise. Reva may not be a GL, but she’s a high investment character whose faction has an extremely powerful Datacron right now. Making every GL the top of the food chain forever seems to limiting to the overall health of the game to me.

    killing gls with lifters without omicron is fine?
    Then why did they nerfed KAM soon after the launch of Geo TB?
    And why is reva higher requirement that GL with a lifter from conquest?
  • StarSon
    7521 posts Member
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    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Lore stuff aside, this seems fine game balance wise. Reva may not be a GL, but she’s a high investment character whose faction has an extremely powerful Datacron right now. Making every GL the top of the food chain forever seems to limiting to the overall health of the game to me.

    It is their stated intentions that GL's are the top of food chain though, and only to be beaten in game modes where specific teams have specific omicrons or datacrons. So, all things considered, I would expect a pretty hard nerf coming.
  • Options
    Reva should be where malgus is, great toon but not a GL, since the requirements are 1/3 of a GL, not to meantion multiple GLs can't even kill her on offense. So imo she is getting the nerf hammer hard
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Lore stuff aside, this seems fine game balance wise. Reva may not be a GL, but she’s a high investment character whose faction has an extremely powerful Datacron right now. Making every GL the top of the food chain forever seems to limiting to the overall health of the game to me.

    It is their stated intentions that GL's are the top of food chain though, and only to be beaten in game modes where specific teams have specific omicrons or datacrons. So, all things considered, I would expect a pretty hard nerf coming.

    This, i can see teams like doctor aphra or whatever, SK staying where they are killing the one specific GL on offense (not hold a defense against them) aka doc killing jabba and sk killing Rey, but to have a character able to kill every GL? Thats gonna go away soon
  • Options
    Reva should be where malgus is, great toon but not a GL, since the requirements are 1/3 of a GL,

    No, the requirements are not 1/3 of a GL. They are much closer to 1/2 of a GL, especially early GLs like SLKR.

    That said, I don't disagree with the idea that Reva should be approximately on par with Malgus.
  • Options
    I think its a bug- CG said they are looking into it
  • Options
    Yeah, seems fine to me. I could see an argument that she should only beat GLs with either her or GI’s Omis active once the Datacron goes away though. If she beats everything without needing to throw on her omi or have a good L9 Datacron equipped, that’s probably a notch too high. But this is a good bit higher investment/effort than SK/Malgus/Aphra, so outperforming them doesn’t seem like a problem to me.
    Devian wrote: »
    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Lore stuff aside, this seems fine game balance wise. Reva may not be a GL, but she’s a high investment character whose faction has an extremely powerful Datacron right now. Making every GL the top of the food chain forever seems to limiting to the overall health of the game to me.

    killing gls with lifters without omicron is fine?
    Then why did they nerfed KAM soon after the launch of Geo TB?
    And why is reva higher requirement that GL with a lifter from conquest?

  • StarSon
    7521 posts Member
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    Reva should be where malgus is, great toon but not a GL, since the requirements are 1/3 of a GL,

    No, the requirements are not 1/3 of a GL. They are much closer to 1/2 of a GL, especially early GLs like SLKR.

    No, definitely 1/3 of a GL. You only need 5 characters at r7 and 1 at r5. Even Rey and SLKR required 13 or 14 characters, minimum r3.
  • StarSon
    7521 posts Member
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    CrispyFett wrote: »
    I think its a bug- CG said they are looking into it

    Did they?
  • StarSon
    7521 posts Member
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    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Yeah, seems fine to me. I could see an argument that she should only beat GLs with either her or GI’s Omis active once the Datacron goes away though. If she beats everything without needing to throw on her omi or have a good L9 Datacron equipped, that’s probably a notch too high. But this is a good bit higher investment/effort than SK/Malgus/Aphra, so outperforming them doesn’t seem like a problem to me.
    Devian wrote: »
    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Lore stuff aside, this seems fine game balance wise. Reva may not be a GL, but she’s a high investment character whose faction has an extremely powerful Datacron right now. Making every GL the top of the food chain forever seems to limiting to the overall health of the game to me.

    killing gls with lifters without omicron is fine?
    Then why did they nerfed KAM soon after the launch of Geo TB?
    And why is reva higher requirement that GL with a lifter from conquest?

    Our opinions on the amount of investment don't really matter. Based on their own metrics, GL's with a lifter should only be beaten with omicron/datacron. In fact, even beating any GL is not part of their state intentions, so it will be interesting to see what they do.
    Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes Power Tiers:
    Marquee/Galactic Chase - ex. Second Sister, Iden Versio
    Journey Guide, Conquest Units - ex. Jedi Knight Revan, Commander Luke Skywalker
    Galactic Legends - ex. Supreme Leader Kylo Ren, Rey
    Galactic Legends with Conquest Counterpart - ex. Jedi Master Kenobi with Commander Ahsoka Tano
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Yeah, seems fine to me. I could see an argument that she should only beat GLs with either her or GI’s Omis active once the Datacron goes away though. If she beats everything without needing to throw on her omi or have a good L9 Datacron equipped, that’s probably a notch too high. But this is a good bit higher investment/effort than SK/Malgus/Aphra, so outperforming them doesn’t seem like a problem to me.
    Devian wrote: »
    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Lore stuff aside, this seems fine game balance wise. Reva may not be a GL, but she’s a high investment character whose faction has an extremely powerful Datacron right now. Making every GL the top of the food chain forever seems to limiting to the overall health of the game to me.

    killing gls with lifters without omicron is fine?
    Then why did they nerfed KAM soon after the launch of Geo TB?
    And why is reva higher requirement that GL with a lifter from conquest?

    Our opinions on the amount of investment don't really matter. Based on their own metrics, GL's with a lifter should only be beaten with omicron/datacron. In fact, even beating any GL is not part of their state intentions, so it will be interesting to see what they do.
    Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes Power Tiers:
    Marquee/Galactic Chase - ex. Second Sister, Iden Versio
    Journey Guide, Conquest Units - ex. Jedi Knight Revan, Commander Luke Skywalker
    Galactic Legends - ex. Supreme Leader Kylo Ren, Rey
    Galactic Legends with Conquest Counterpart - ex. Jedi Master Kenobi with Commander Ahsoka Tano
    To be clear, this certainly does not hold universally true for all units but is a rough rubric we can use to discuss this topic in more detail. There are many exceptions to the rules (in the name of fun and interesting gameplay) that exist but overall this is a good snapshot of how we approach power.

    but don't forget that was a basic rubric for discussion of the topic they put out. not a universal truth of power order.

    i haven't seen much footage yet for reva but given there is also a thread saying she is giving too much purge currently id say lets wait for the fix to see where she really is (since I don't think a fix is out yet).
  • scuba
    14164 posts Member
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    Wait a new character is bugged on release?
  • Dawnsinger
    147 posts Member
    edited March 2023
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    The original question that was asked was if we thought this was okay. I think that it is, and that CG would be smarter to update the community on their goals for power levels than to try to stick to something that’s several years old now and been dramatically impacted by the changes introduced by first omicrons and then Datacrons.

    I don’t think CG has ever felt beholden to the type of metric you referenced, it was just a snapshot of their thinking at the time, and in a game like this, I personally think it’s fine for that type of thing to change and evolve. I’ve not seen too much evidence that CG feels differently.
    StarSon wrote: »
    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Yeah, seems fine to me. I could see an argument that she should only beat GLs with either her or GI’s Omis active once the Datacron goes away though. If she beats everything without needing to throw on her omi or have a good L9 Datacron equipped, that’s probably a notch too high. But this is a good bit higher investment/effort than SK/Malgus/Aphra, so outperforming them doesn’t seem like a problem to me.
    Devian wrote: »
    Dawnsinger wrote: »
    Lore stuff aside, this seems fine game balance wise. Reva may not be a GL, but she’s a high investment character whose faction has an extremely powerful Datacron right now. Making every GL the top of the food chain forever seems to limiting to the overall health of the game to me.

    killing gls with lifters without omicron is fine?
    Then why did they nerfed KAM soon after the launch of Geo TB?
    And why is reva higher requirement that GL with a lifter from conquest?

    Our opinions on the amount of investment don't really matter. Based on their own metrics, GL's with a lifter should only be beaten with omicron/datacron. In fact, even beating any GL is not part of their state intentions, so it will be interesting to see what they do.
    Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes Power Tiers:
    Marquee/Galactic Chase - ex. Second Sister, Iden Versio
    Journey Guide, Conquest Units - ex. Jedi Knight Revan, Commander Luke Skywalker
    Galactic Legends - ex. Supreme Leader Kylo Ren, Rey
    Galactic Legends with Conquest Counterpart - ex. Jedi Master Kenobi with Commander Ahsoka Tano

  • Options
    Next you'll expect them to test characters before they release them.

    We're the beta testers to make sure everything works right after all!
  • Options
    Ultra wrote: »

    this is outside the existence of said bug. there is widespread evidence of her destorying GLs without the bug occurring. I think it is appropriate for people to question this before investing their high relic resources into a character that could very well be nerfed.
    "ooba... ooba"
  • Options
    No, definitely 1/3 of a GL. You only need 5 characters at r7 and 1 at r5. Even Rey and SLKR required 13 or 14 characters, minimum r3.

    First off, 6/13 is closer to 1/2 than 1/3rd, so when I said it's closer to 1/2 I already contemplated that.

    Secondly, they require 40 total relic levels. Rey requires ...

    6 characters, 35 relic levels on the r5s, 27 relic levels on the r3 and r7 toons combined, for a total of 62 relic levels.

    So greater than 1/2 the relic levels, exactly 1/2 the toons. Skip the Raddus/CapShip requirement.

    What about rare mats? Well, Rey requires 30 zinbiddles and Reva requires 50.

    What about Kyros? The Inqs require a ton -- more than all Rey toons combined.

    So 1/2 the toons, but WAY MORE than 1/2 the rare gear and skip the CapShip.

    So what was it I said? Oh, yeah:
    No, the requirements are not 1/3 of a GL. They are much closer to 1/2 of a GL, especially early GLs like SLKR.

    I admit it is hard to do direct comparisons, but with the insane Kyro requirements, far more than 1/2 the relic levels, and 67% more zinbiddles, 67% more Electrium Conductors, 25% more Flawed Signal Data


    115 incomplete signal data *3 = 345
    65 * 7 = 455
    15 * 2 = 30
    total for Rey = 830
    115 * 5 = 575
    65 * 1 = 65
    total for Reva = 630 (AKA way more than half)

    So all the rarest stuff you actually need MORE for Reva. The intermediate difficulty signal data you need less, but still way more than 1/2 (actual % = 75.9%)

    The idea that Reva is less difficult than 1/2 a GL is laughable. After adding up all the numbers I would no longer even say it's "approaching" 1/2 of a GL. It's there. The only thing that makes it remotely close is that the above number don't account for Raddus, but

    1) you did Hound's Tooth anyway. That was a freebie.
    2) Rey's MilFalc you get the pilots for free, as you do with Poe's X-Wing and the Resistance Pilot X-wing
    3) With all that, you literally don't need gear at all on any of the other required ships, so this is all ship shards with zero gear investment. Sure, that's some work, but it really isn't that big a deal. Especially considering how easy shards for several of those ships are to get.

    Nope, Reva is 1/2 a GL, no problem.
  • MasterSeedy
    5193 posts Member
    edited March 2023
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    Oh, and Aurodium Heatsinks are exactly equal, by the way.

    Not equal to half of Rey. Equal to Rey, so double what we would expect for an investment that was 1/2 of Rey.
  • Options
    "on auto" might be the crux of all this. Idunno.,
  • Options
    Screerider wrote: »
    "on auto" might be the crux of all this. Idunno.,

    I don't know. I think a big part of the problem is that she beats ALL GLs. If a team beats one or two, fine. If they beat all of them, that's a very big problem.
  • MaruMaru
    3338 posts Member
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    I think the investment comparisons doesn't do the situation justice since in the current state (and without omis) the team becomes all-gls killer. This status is a bit too much even for another gl.
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Reva should be where malgus is, great toon but not a GL, since the requirements are 1/3 of a GL,

    No, the requirements are not 1/3 of a GL. They are much closer to 1/2 of a GL, especially early GLs like SLKR.

    No, definitely 1/3 of a GL. You only need 5 characters at r7 and 1 at r5. Even Rey and SLKR required 13 or 14 characters, minimum r3.
    You also need friends who farmed the same units, so it’s very difficult to compare Reva with GLs.
  • Options
    No, definitely 1/3 of a GL. You only need 5 characters at r7 and 1 at r5. Even Rey and SLKR required 13 or 14 characters, minimum r3.


    Nope, Reva is 1/2 a GL, no problem.

    So by your logic Malgus, CAT, Maul, etc should be able to solo every team including GLs because they require what…200+ relic levels, 1-2 GLs and another 4-5 solid teams to unlock.
  • flux_rono
    2140 posts Member
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    StewartH wrote: »
    No, definitely 1/3 of a GL. You only need 5 characters at r7 and 1 at r5. Even Rey and SLKR required 13 or 14 characters, minimum r3.


    Nope, Reva is 1/2 a GL, no problem.

    So by your logic Malgus, CAT, Maul, etc should be able to solo every team including GLs because they require what…200+ relic levels, 1-2 GLs and another 4-5 solid teams to unlock.

    minimums to unlock those are 5 relic characters, technically GLs arent even needed to get them. all you need is 4 million GP and then relics to do the actual fight which can be done with no relics.
  • Options
    It appears to be a bug with Reva, related to CG not testing the character before release, we appreciate your patience while we review this situation.
  • Profit
    282 posts Member
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    Oh, and Aurodium Heatsinks are exactly equal, by the way.

    Not equal to half of Rey. Equal to Rey, so double what we would expect for an investment that was 1/2 of Rey.

    Well tecnically you can get reva without any prereq, all you need to do is be like jabba and have people carry you
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    Reva should be where malgus is, great toon but not a GL, since the requirements are 1/3 of a GL,

    No, the requirements are not 1/3 of a GL. They are much closer to 1/2 of a GL, especially early GLs like SLKR.

    No, definitely 1/3 of a GL. You only need 5 characters at r7 and 1 at r5. Even Rey and SLKR required 13 or 14 characters, minimum r3.

    True, but it also requires a large number of people to have those requirements to get sufficient shards to unlock her, whereas GLs are done individually.
  • Options
    Currently she’s bugged because why should CG test their game?

    If she still performs like this after the fix she needs a nerf considering what they’ve done in the past to so many character kits and omicrons under the guise of “too effective at beating GL’s.”

    See Traya, QGJ, JKL, GAS, etc.
  • Options
    Does the bug impact the battle? I saw the more than 6 stacks of Purge once in the fights I watched, but the battle was well under control by then and it had no impact on the result. Is there another bug?
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