I'd argue that it's genius strategy, especially for counter teams. If you attack them and miss they get a buff. If you attack them and hit, they hit you back. Best of both worlds.
At least someone understands lol. To the OP you win in either situation if he's attacked or not
Maybe he is used because he makes the team stronger? It does help when a char evades Rey's Flurry or GS swarm, as well as all kind of stuns.
Evasion is good.
Evasion with counters is sub-optimal.
very well, if you have better options than Dooku lead, by all means use these better options - it's logical. Even more so, would be appreciated if you share such strategies
There are better leaders for punishing AoE.
There are better ways to get Offense Up.
There are better Evasion leaders.
While I can agree with the first two, I am interested who is a better evasion leader right now?
With the exception of Old Ben, every other leader who can add evade does not apply that evasion equally to the entire team. And while I would take Old Ben's bonus on evading over Dooku's (TM boost vs O-Up), his leader ability is supposedly broken.
There are better leaders for punishing AoE.
There are better ways to get Offense Up.
There are better Evasion leaders.
While I can agree with the first two, I am interested who is a better evasion leader right now?
With the exception of Old Ben, every other leader who can add evade does not apply that evasion equally to the entire team. And while I would take Old Ben's bonus on evading over Dooku's (TM boost vs O-Up), his leader ability is supposedly broken.
People keep repeating things they have heard, but havent tried themselves.
Try something new, you might just be surprised.
There are 7 toons with Evasion Leadership, we have discussed 2.
Scoundrel, Jedi, Nightsister, and Sith synergies exist.
Another anecdotal point (that I'm certain many other can attest to as well). When I leave a QGJ lead team overnight (as a top 50 payout) - I drop into the 70s and 80s. When I swap out the leader to Dooku (which actually lowers my team's power) - I drop to the 50s...if at all.
Whether or not Dooku-lead is optimal, it is feared on defense. That counts for something.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
its not a YES or NO discussion.
- Yes, dooku still works
- No, dooku its as good as he once was
slowly but surely he will loose his possition to a yet to be determined other (meta) leader. ppl are still building their future meta squads, wich is a gamble ofcourse, but eventually a certain leader will dethrone dooku alltogether.
What is good about Dooku is RNG factor. It's based on luck - hence it is more preferable to have on defence (as the only thing that may let your team win on defence is luck)
What is good about Dooku is RNG factor. It's based on luck - hence it is more preferable to have on defence (as the only thing that may let your team win on defence is luck)
Nobody is debating why he gets used.
I am postulating that it is horrible strategy.
Having money does not make you good at things.
Defense buffs with heals would be a more solid strategy.
Chewbacca(L), Dooku, Fives, Kit, Kylo would be better for counters.
Ahsoka(L), Luminara, Old Ben, Yoda, QGJ would be better for Evasion.
What is good about Dooku is RNG factor. It's based on luck - hence it is more preferable to have on defence (as the only thing that may let your team win on defence is luck)
Nobody is debating why he gets used.
I am postulating that it is horrible strategy.
Having money does not make you good at things.
Defense buffs with heals would be a more solid strategy.
Chewbacca(L), Dooku, Fives, Kit, Kylo would be better for counters.
Ahsoka(L), Luminara, Old Ben, Yoda, QGJ would be better for Evasion.
And Dooku - RG - three dps is better for a chance to win on defence
What is good about Dooku is RNG factor. It's based on luck - hence it is more preferable to have on defence (as the only thing that may let your team win on defence is luck)
Nobody is debating why he gets used.
I am postulating that it is horrible strategy.
Having money does not make you good at things.
Defense buffs with heals would be a more solid strategy.
Chewbacca(L), Dooku, Fives, Kit, Kylo would be better for counters.
Ahsoka(L), Luminara, Old Ben, Yoda, QGJ would be better for Evasion.
And Dooku - RG - three dps is better for a chance to win on defence
Why are you looking at these things as separate parts instead of two halves of a whole? If they evade they get offense up, although a it seems a tad bugged for offense up will disappear right after its awarded sometimes, and if they don't they can counter. That is two positive outcomes as opposed to the one negative where nothing happens. Since you are opposed to the Dooku lead show your server mates a better way with your lineup creativity
There are better leaders for punishing AoE.
There are better ways to get Offense Up.
There are better Evasion leaders.
People assume Dooku is broken and want to exploit the bug.
But with Dooku you get it all in one toon. You need 2-3 toons to accomplish what Dooku can plus you get a very early chance at a double stun.
I also agree that RNG is about the only way to win on defense and Dooku helps with that. IMO, that's probably a good thing. It means there aren't teams that are so much better than every other team that the AI can easily beat a human.
What is good about Dooku is RNG factor. It's based on luck - hence it is more preferable to have on defence (as the only thing that may let your team win on defence is luck)
Nobody is debating why he gets used.
I am postulating that it is horrible strategy.
Having money does not make you good at things.
Defense buffs with heals would be a more solid strategy.
Chewbacca(L), Dooku, Fives, Kit, Kylo would be better for counters.
Ahsoka(L), Luminara, Old Ben, Yoda, QGJ would be better for Evasion.
And Dooku - RG - three dps is better for a chance to win on defence
If you cant understand why Evasion + Counters is a non-combo, thats on you.
Eventually, you will see an actual Arena strategy emerge.
Everything up to this point has been training wheels.
I don't get what you're arguing, then. Are you saying that using Dooku as a lead in a team where the strategy is to do damage via counter attacks? Because that's now how Dooku is being used at the moment, so I'm not sure what the relevance is.
Even so, I still disagree. The way to win is to do enough damage to the other team before they do enough to you. You have to keep that ratio high enough. In a counter attack team you try to maintain that by attacking more often, both on your turn and your opponents. If the other team is casting an offense up buff on you instead of attacking then it will be easier to maintain that ratio since they won't be doing any damage on their turn and will be increasing the damage you do on your turn. It's a great way to both lower the damage they do while raising the damage you do.
Maybe he is used because he makes the team stronger? It does help when a char evades Rey's Flurry or GS swarm, as well as all kind of stuns.
Evasion is good.
Evasion with counters is sub-optimal.
Wow more nonsense coming out of timitock...
Best case scenario, you dodge,
-lose no health/protection
-get offense up-
-lengthen the time needed for the opponent to kill your counter attackers and possibly time out
-put opponent's specials into cooldown, thus further lengthening their time to kill your counter attackers
It seems that I understand something rare and valuable.
Maybe I should not have tried to share it.
The only way your argument makes sense is if dookus teams are running out of time because they can't deal enough damage before the timer runs out. That is clearly not the case.
The point is not to maximize the number of counterattacks, but to win. By not dying and killing the opponent.
Maybe dooku is no longer the best leader, but using him as leader is no where close to "horrible".
Maybe he is used because he makes the team stronger? It does help when a char evades Rey's Flurry or GS swarm, as well as all kind of stuns.
Evasion is good.
Evasion with counters is sub-optimal.
Wow more nonsense coming out of timitock...
Best case scenario, you dodge,
-lose no health/protection
-get offense up-
-lengthen the time needed for the opponent to kill your counter attackers and possibly time out
-put opponent's specials into cooldown, thus further lengthening their time to kill your counter attackers
What's not to like compared to taking damage?
Just because you dont understand, its nonsense?
If your intention is to Evade, Counter Attacks are bad strategy.
If your intention is to Counter Attack, Evasion is a bad strategy.
Evasion limits Counter opportunities.
The better plan is High Armor and HP, ensuring you counter every time, while taking minimal damage. See Fives for evidence of success.
This isnt the only game to ever have these mechanics.
This isnt opinion.
Maybe he is used because he makes the team stronger? It does help when a char evades Rey's Flurry or GS swarm, as well as all kind of stuns.
Evasion is good.
Evasion with counters is sub-optimal.
Wow more nonsense coming out of timitock...
Best case scenario, you dodge,
-lose no health/protection
-get offense up-
-lengthen the time needed for the opponent to kill your counter attackers and possibly time out
-put opponent's specials into cooldown, thus further lengthening their time to kill your counter attackers
What's not to like compared to taking damage?
Just because you dont understand, its nonsense?
If your intention is to Evade, Counter Attacks are bad strategy.
If your intention is to Counter Attack, Evasion is a bad strategy.
Evasion limits Counter opportunities.
The better plan is High Armor and HP, ensuring you counter every time, while taking minimal damage. See Fives for evidence of success.
This isnt the only game to ever have these mechanics.
This isnt opinion.
Only one intention: to win on defence. Evasion helps this intention. Offence up on evade helps this intention. Wasted specials of opposition help this intention. And Dooku is - first and foremost - a char with evasion leadership and stun ability, secondly a good anti-Jedi measure, and only thirdly a "char with counter-attack"
Maybe he is used because he makes the team stronger? It does help when a char evades Rey's Flurry or GS swarm, as well as all kind of stuns.
Evasion is good.
Evasion with counters is sub-optimal.
Wow more nonsense coming out of timitock...
Best case scenario, you dodge,
-lose no health/protection
-get offense up-
-lengthen the time needed for the opponent to kill your counter attackers and possibly time out
-put opponent's specials into cooldown, thus further lengthening their time to kill your counter attackers
What's not to like compared to taking damage?
Just because you dont understand, its nonsense?
If your intention is to Evade, Counter Attacks are bad strategy.
If your intention is to Counter Attack, Evasion is a bad strategy.
Evasion limits Counter opportunities.
The better plan is High Armor and HP, ensuring you counter every time, while taking minimal damage. See Fives for evidence of success.
This isnt the only game to ever have these mechanics.
This isnt opinion.
So if you take minimal damage it's good, but if you take no damage at all it's bad? Sorry I feel like I'm talking to a elementary school kid...
Dodge
pros- offense up,no damage taken, force opponent's cd to go on cooldown, take a turn for free without taking damage.
Cons -Nothing.
Basically when you're running a tanky team you want to screw with your opponent's time as much as possible.Be it lengthy animations, high health/shield, missed attacks,heals, equalizers. If the best your opponent can finish you off is 3 mins, you can pretty much turtle and hold position at 8 mins...I don't care how many counter attacks go out as long as they take the longest time possible to kill me. Simple as that.Sorry but defense still isn't very important/game changing even after the update...
Maybe he is used because he makes the team stronger? It does help when a char evades Rey's Flurry or GS swarm, as well as all kind of stuns.
Evasion is good.
Evasion with counters is sub-optimal.
Wow more nonsense coming out of timitock...
Best case scenario, you dodge,
-lose no health/protection
-get offense up-
-lengthen the time needed for the opponent to kill your counter attackers and possibly time out
-put opponent's specials into cooldown, thus further lengthening their time to kill your counter attackers
What's not to like compared to taking damage?
Just because you dont understand, its nonsense?
If your intention is to Evade, Counter Attacks are bad strategy.
If your intention is to Counter Attack, Evasion is a bad strategy.
Evasion limits Counter opportunities.
The better plan is High Armor and HP, ensuring you counter every time, while taking minimal damage. See Fives for evidence of success.
This isnt the only game to ever have these mechanics.
This isnt opinion.
Doesn't that depend heavily on how much damage counter attackers do, how much armor/HP they have and how much damage other toons do? I don't think counter attackers have enough damage compared to their health to stand up to high DPS toons.
I went toe to toe with a 5's and the only reason 5's won was because he dodged and got offense up. Missing out on 15% damage (the added dodge rate) to do 50% more damage is worth it in the long run.
If you want to prove us wrong I'm sure we'd all be happy to see your version of a counter attack team beating the current high level teams. I just don't think the numbers work out for your version to be viable, though.
Maybe he is used because he makes the team stronger? It does help when a char evades Rey's Flurry or GS swarm, as well as all kind of stuns.
Evasion is good.
Evasion with counters is sub-optimal.
Wow more nonsense coming out of timitock...
Best case scenario, you dodge,
-lose no health/protection
-get offense up-
-lengthen the time needed for the opponent to kill your counter attackers and possibly time out
-put opponent's specials into cooldown, thus further lengthening their time to kill your counter attackers
What's not to like compared to taking damage?
Just because you dont understand, its nonsense?
If your intention is to Evade, Counter Attacks are bad strategy.
If your intention is to Counter Attack, Evasion is a bad strategy.
Evasion limits Counter opportunities.
The better plan is High Armor and HP, ensuring you counter every time, while taking minimal damage. See Fives for evidence of success.
This isnt the only game to ever have these mechanics.
This isnt opinion.
I see your logic, but your view is most certainly an opinion. Your views do not have substance in the game itself, in reality Dooku's leader only enhances counter attackers. Your favorite is 5's it appears. 5's is way more deadly if combined with Dooku's leader because he is harder to take down with the evasion, but also if you attack him after he evades, his counters do way more damage because he has offense up, which is a big deal when 5's hits like a wet noodle to begin with. Evasion does not limit counter opportunities. Rather increases them or leaves them the same. When you evade, you lose no health. That is awesome power against Rey or GS who can hit for over 10k in one blow, now they have to use their basic for the next few turns, and you haven't lost any health, then you still have just as many opportunities to counter, except now you have offense up. While counter and evade seem like opposites, they actually synergize quite well in the game.
Suggested Counter team: Chewie(L), Fives, Dooku, Kylo, Daka
Persistent Defense Up on top of 50 bonus Defense. Taunt for when counterattackers need a heal. Rez for when things turn sideways. Debuffs galore.
The Counter Team I will run:
IGD(L), Barriss, QGJ, Mace, Luminara
High Defense with 2 Heals instead of Taunt. Counters trigger Basic bonuses. 2 Dispels.
Suggested Counter team: Chewie(L), Fives, Dooku, Kylo, Daka
Persistent Defense Up on top of 50 bonus Defense. Taunt for when counterattackers need a heal. Rez for when things turn sideways. Debuffs galore.
The Counter Team I will run:
IGD(L), Barriss, QGJ, Mace, Luminara
High Defense with 2 Heals instead of Taunt. Counters trigger Basic bonuses. 2 Dispels.
What rank do you usually hold in arena? Both of the teams you listed wouldn't be able to hold top 100 in my server. High defense and Defense up still provides nothing in the battle, health is the only defensive stat that actually affects battle. The teams you have provided are interesting, but no way effective in today's arena, could be cool for GW.
Suggested Counter team: Chewie(L), Fives, Dooku, Kylo, Daka
Persistent Defense Up on top of 50 bonus Defense. Taunt for when counterattackers need a heal. Rez for when things turn sideways. Debuffs galore.
The Counter Team I will run:
IGD(L), Barriss, QGJ, Mace, Luminara
High Defense with 2 Heals instead of Taunt. Counters trigger Basic bonuses. 2 Dispels.
What rank do you usually hold in arena? Both of the teams you listed wouldn't be able to hold top 100 in my server. High defense and Defense up still provides nothing in the battle, health is the only defensive stat that actually affects battle. The teams you have provided are interesting, but no way effective in today's arena, could be cool for GW.
I am a solid top 50 regular.
You have obviously not tested the Defense changes.
350 Armor actually means something now.
Once people actually start to try new things, the sea of Dooku will wash away, and wondrous variety will abound.
You state opinion as fact with no corroborating evidence to support it.
I say you actually do not know.
Suggested Counter team: Chewie(L), Fives, Dooku, Kylo, Daka
Persistent Defense Up on top of 50 bonus Defense. Taunt for when counterattackers need a heal. Rez for when things turn sideways. Debuffs galore.
The Counter Team I will run:
IGD(L), Barriss, QGJ, Mace, Luminara
High Defense with 2 Heals instead of Taunt. Counters trigger Basic bonuses. 2 Dispels.
What rank do you usually hold in arena? Both of the teams you listed wouldn't be able to hold top 100 in my server. High defense and Defense up still provides nothing in the battle, health is the only defensive stat that actually affects battle. The teams you have provided are interesting, but no way effective in today's arena, could be cool for GW.
I am a solid top 50 regular.
You have obviously not tested the Defense changes.
350 Armor actually means something now.
Once people actually start to try new things, the sea of Dooku will wash away, and wondrous variety will abound.
You state opinion as fact with no corroborating evidence to support it.
I say you actually do not know.
would you please elaborate on the changes they made to defense? Regardless of who I'm attacking, my attacks do roughly the same damage, and it is because of this that I say defense has not been changed. What exactly does 350 armor mean? The devs have not elaborated on what changes they have done, I would love for you to tell me what has been changed. it used to mean that you hit for 350 less damage. 350 damage is still not much when my Rey hits for over 10k. I haven't seen any evidence that this has been changed. And I have played several defensive and tanky team, and it's still the same story. Not enough damage, not enough speed, and not even enough survivability to bring the match close to a loss or draw. the original points were discussing strategy, and I say that your teams illustrates a strategy that is not in touch with the mechanics of the game. when you run a Dooku speed team, no other team provides a semblance of a challenge against you. If you sold out to the meta (I know it sucks) you would be a mainstay in the top 20 if not top 10. the sea of Dooku will not wash away until there aee truly better options out there
Replies
At least someone understands lol. To the OP you win in either situation if he's attacked or not
very well, if you have better options than Dooku lead, by all means use these better options - it's logical. Even more so, would be appreciated if you share such strategies
While I can agree with the first two, I am interested who is a better evasion leader right now?
With the exception of Old Ben, every other leader who can add evade does not apply that evasion equally to the entire team. And while I would take Old Ben's bonus on evading over Dooku's (TM boost vs O-Up), his leader ability is supposedly broken.
People keep repeating things they have heard, but havent tried themselves.
Try something new, you might just be surprised.
There are 7 toons with Evasion Leadership, we have discussed 2.
Scoundrel, Jedi, Nightsister, and Sith synergies exist.
Whether or not Dooku-lead is optimal, it is feared on defense. That counts for something.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Droids, however, scare me.
- Yes, dooku still works
- No, dooku its as good as he once was
slowly but surely he will loose his possition to a yet to be determined other (meta) leader. ppl are still building their future meta squads, wich is a gamble ofcourse, but eventually a certain leader will dethrone dooku alltogether.
Nobody is debating why he gets used.
I am postulating that it is horrible strategy.
Having money does not make you good at things.
Defense buffs with heals would be a more solid strategy.
Chewbacca(L), Dooku, Fives, Kit, Kylo would be better for counters.
Ahsoka(L), Luminara, Old Ben, Yoda, QGJ would be better for Evasion.
And Dooku - RG - three dps is better for a chance to win on defence
RG is the key factor there, not Dooku.
I also agree that RNG is about the only way to win on defense and Dooku helps with that. IMO, that's probably a good thing. It means there aren't teams that are so much better than every other team that the AI can easily beat a human.
If you cant understand why Evasion + Counters is a non-combo, thats on you.
Eventually, you will see an actual Arena strategy emerge.
Everything up to this point has been training wheels.
That's their combination.
Yes, let everyone pursue the route he wants. Time will tell everyone apart
Even so, I still disagree. The way to win is to do enough damage to the other team before they do enough to you. You have to keep that ratio high enough. In a counter attack team you try to maintain that by attacking more often, both on your turn and your opponents. If the other team is casting an offense up buff on you instead of attacking then it will be easier to maintain that ratio since they won't be doing any damage on their turn and will be increasing the damage you do on your turn. It's a great way to both lower the damage they do while raising the damage you do.
It seems that I understand something rare and valuable.
Maybe I should not have tried to share it.
Wow more nonsense coming out of timitock...
Best case scenario, you dodge,
-lose no health/protection
-get offense up-
-lengthen the time needed for the opponent to kill your counter attackers and possibly time out
-put opponent's specials into cooldown, thus further lengthening their time to kill your counter attackers
What's not to like compared to taking damage?
The only way your argument makes sense is if dookus teams are running out of time because they can't deal enough damage before the timer runs out. That is clearly not the case.
The point is not to maximize the number of counterattacks, but to win. By not dying and killing the opponent.
Maybe dooku is no longer the best leader, but using him as leader is no where close to "horrible".
Just because you dont understand, its nonsense?
If your intention is to Evade, Counter Attacks are bad strategy.
If your intention is to Counter Attack, Evasion is a bad strategy.
Evasion limits Counter opportunities.
The better plan is High Armor and HP, ensuring you counter every time, while taking minimal damage. See Fives for evidence of success.
This isnt the only game to ever have these mechanics.
This isnt opinion.
Only one intention: to win on defence. Evasion helps this intention. Offence up on evade helps this intention. Wasted specials of opposition help this intention. And Dooku is - first and foremost - a char with evasion leadership and stun ability, secondly a good anti-Jedi measure, and only thirdly a "char with counter-attack"
So if you take minimal damage it's good, but if you take no damage at all it's bad? Sorry I feel like I'm talking to a elementary school kid...
Dodge
pros- offense up,no damage taken, force opponent's cd to go on cooldown, take a turn for free without taking damage.
Cons -Nothing.
Basically when you're running a tanky team you want to screw with your opponent's time as much as possible.Be it lengthy animations, high health/shield, missed attacks,heals, equalizers. If the best your opponent can finish you off is 3 mins, you can pretty much turtle and hold position at 8 mins...I don't care how many counter attacks go out as long as they take the longest time possible to kill me. Simple as that.Sorry but defense still isn't very important/game changing even after the update...
I went toe to toe with a 5's and the only reason 5's won was because he dodged and got offense up. Missing out on 15% damage (the added dodge rate) to do 50% more damage is worth it in the long run.
If you want to prove us wrong I'm sure we'd all be happy to see your version of a counter attack team beating the current high level teams. I just don't think the numbers work out for your version to be viable, though.
I see your logic, but your view is most certainly an opinion. Your views do not have substance in the game itself, in reality Dooku's leader only enhances counter attackers. Your favorite is 5's it appears. 5's is way more deadly if combined with Dooku's leader because he is harder to take down with the evasion, but also if you attack him after he evades, his counters do way more damage because he has offense up, which is a big deal when 5's hits like a wet noodle to begin with. Evasion does not limit counter opportunities. Rather increases them or leaves them the same. When you evade, you lose no health. That is awesome power against Rey or GS who can hit for over 10k in one blow, now they have to use their basic for the next few turns, and you haven't lost any health, then you still have just as many opportunities to counter, except now you have offense up. While counter and evade seem like opposites, they actually synergize quite well in the game.
Time will prove me right.
Try Fives with a Defense leader and Defense Up.
Suggested Counter team: Chewie(L), Fives, Dooku, Kylo, Daka
Persistent Defense Up on top of 50 bonus Defense. Taunt for when counterattackers need a heal. Rez for when things turn sideways. Debuffs galore.
The Counter Team I will run:
IGD(L), Barriss, QGJ, Mace, Luminara
High Defense with 2 Heals instead of Taunt. Counters trigger Basic bonuses. 2 Dispels.
What rank do you usually hold in arena? Both of the teams you listed wouldn't be able to hold top 100 in my server. High defense and Defense up still provides nothing in the battle, health is the only defensive stat that actually affects battle. The teams you have provided are interesting, but no way effective in today's arena, could be cool for GW.
I am a solid top 50 regular.
You have obviously not tested the Defense changes.
350 Armor actually means something now.
Once people actually start to try new things, the sea of Dooku will wash away, and wondrous variety will abound.
You state opinion as fact with no corroborating evidence to support it.
I say you actually do not know.
would you please elaborate on the changes they made to defense? Regardless of who I'm attacking, my attacks do roughly the same damage, and it is because of this that I say defense has not been changed. What exactly does 350 armor mean? The devs have not elaborated on what changes they have done, I would love for you to tell me what has been changed. it used to mean that you hit for 350 less damage. 350 damage is still not much when my Rey hits for over 10k. I haven't seen any evidence that this has been changed. And I have played several defensive and tanky team, and it's still the same story. Not enough damage, not enough speed, and not even enough survivability to bring the match close to a loss or draw. the original points were discussing strategy, and I say that your teams illustrates a strategy that is not in touch with the mechanics of the game. when you run a Dooku speed team, no other team provides a semblance of a challenge against you. If you sold out to the meta (I know it sucks) you would be a mainstay in the top 20 if not top 10. the sea of Dooku will not wash away until there aee truly better options out there