Agreed with the credit crunch points brought up, including the math estimating what we're picking up.
Now, there's also the little boost from Raids, BUT hopefully we can all recognize that not everyone is in a guild farming T6/7 Rancors every other day. Mine clears 5's in a few hours and takes a few days on 6's, it's a nice pile of cash ending up in the top 10 or 20, but not nearly enough to make up for the ongoing drought overall.
While the need to focus on ones PVP squad is indeed important, let's not overlook the events they also spring on us that need other characters at higher levels to participate in, let alone finish completely. No, we don't necessarily need full teams at 80 and 7*, but it's mutually exclusive to both focus on a strong PVP core with a handful of extras for GW, and to have a massive bench that provides enough heavy hitters in a variety of types to complete Jedi and Droid and Rebel and Etc events.
Honestly, with the RNG for shards and gear, the game seems to contain enough grind and artificial roadblocks that adding the credit crunch just seems cruel. So what if we had twice as many level 80's if they're all Gear Level 5 or 6 waiting on the fractally spreading numbers of certain things we need to get them higher. At least those characters would be able to be tried out, experimented with in a semi-useful capacity, rather than most people following the meta blindly because taking a chance with a less popular character could set them weeks or months behind.
Plus, it's not a purely black and white issue. We're all short on credits, but I don't see anyone sensible asking to have 100 million dropped in every account. A simple solution or two (increase the challenge value to 120k+, increase those stupid Bronzium rolls to 10-20k, add 50-100% to the credits in GW rewards, etc) would substantially improve our ability to earn money but wouldn't remotely lead to people 'having a full account of 80's overnight'. We're already talking a grind that can be measured in quarters, if not years, and as they add more levels to the cap, more characters to the pool, more gear levels to grind towards, it's only going to get worse/longer with no end in sight. And I'm not blind to that being the Freemium business model in a nutshell.
But there are shades of grey on this spectrum, and it'd be nice to at least be able to level up a bunch of characters to toy with, rather than feeling that every credit has to be horded for getting another character to 7 stars or 2-4 a level closer to 80 out of the A/B/C teams.
+1
It's nice to see opinions in between, "give me everything for free now" and, "if you don't spend thousands on this game nobody cares if you enjoy it." I want a game in the middle of that. And right now this game is way into the greedy side of the grey area. To grind for weeks and months to get a toon to max shards, then to have to wait until next year to actually use him is absurd. Just open the credit tap slightly, so we can use the toons we've farmed to raid for the huge amounts of gear that will take months if not years to acquire.
I have stopped farming character shards for more than a month now because there's really no point doing that. There is just not enough credits to level up and use them.
So you figured it out, it wasn't that difficult. Stop accumulating debt until you have earned enough to pay it off. One can easily make 4mil + per week just from Challenges and GW. That should be sufficient to service one new character per week.
If you want to continually impose increasing debt upon yourself, that is your business, but don't cry foul, begging for more money because you cannot control your impulses.
IF you complete your GW each day, you will get around 448,840 credits
Cantina = around 100K if you refresh once.
Regular = 38K credits if you refresh 2 times. Also extra if you log in for bonus energy.
Challenge from Bounty Hunter = Around 120K per day. Since you can do bounty hunter on Sun, Tues, Friday . 837K per week.
You will get atleast 710K per day. A level 1 to lv80 and combined with promotion need around 6.5M credits. Literally you can do this in 9 - 10days.
You are making the assumption that people are using all their cantina battles on the highest difficulty. This is a pretty faulty assumption because most of the decent characters to farm after RG and Barriss aren't on those nodes. I have spent a while going after GS, Lando, Chewie, etc. after getting those two and I am getting nowhere near 100k with 2 refreshes a day.
You also ignore a lot of costs involved with leveling people like the almost 500k it costs to level abilities, the gear costs (not sure if star cost is in your figure either)
I have stopped farming character shards for more than a month now because there's really no point doing that. There is just not enough credits to level up and use them.
So you figured it out, it wasn't that difficult. Stop accumulating debt until you have earned enough to pay it off. One can easily make 4mil + per week just from Challenges and GW. That should be sufficient to service one new character per week.
If you want to continually impose increasing debt upon yourself, that is your business, but don't cry foul, begging for more money because you cannot control your impulses.
Your math is off. You need about 7 million to upgrade/level a new character to max. It super easy to farm on average a toon a week to max shards or more, but there is no way to farm that many credits per week. It isn't an impulse control problem. I never level toons I'm not farming to max. In fact there are several that sat at level 1/gear 1 with enough shards to max out without putting one single credit into them (some still are), because I needed the credits just to keep up with a few essential toons. There is currently no way to ever catch up except skipping my mortgage payment, and putting it in to a tap game. Then 5-6 months from now, I'll be in the same shape.
Single levels for one toon now cost between 1/4 to 1/3 of a million credits, and they haven't increased our income level significantly since levels cost a few thousand. If you like a game where it takes months of work to farm a toon to max, but it's mathematically impossible to ever have the credits to use him even at the level cap, we are from different planets. I think if you decide in a disciplined way to farm a small number of toons to max, not waste a penny on other random toon, then you should be able to make enough credits to... I don't know... USE them when you finish. But you can't. You have to pick which ones to leave sitting there. Then pick a new set of toons to start farming, knowing that 25% of that effort is a giant waste of time and effort.
I have tens of thousands of GW tokens now I'm never going to use because of the slow credit flow. I've said before I wish there was a garbage can in the game to dump them in since they'll never get used. But no. You're totally right. Why ask that we get a slight percentage increase in daily income now that toon costs at 80 have literally gone up hundreds of times what they used to be. Surely everyone will be able to pay $1000 a year to be able to play this game. ($1000 is what it would cost me just to use the toons I can farm to 7* in that amount of time if I farm every credit I can without ever missing, and use all the crystals I can get f2p wisely, and never put a penny into any toon that isn't max stars ever) Yup. Totally reasonable.
Stop giving EA money until they change it. You have the power.
They answer to you. About time you realize that.
Many have stopped giving them (as much) money. As others said, why spend crystals on farming hard nodes for more characters you can't promote/level up? Why spend crystals on more chromium packs for characters you can't promote/level up? If you aren't prepared to pay more money for credit packs, there's no point in spending money on more characters at a certain point.
To me the biggest problem with with the credit crunch is the amount of toons you need to level to stay competitive in raids (reward system needs overhauled). Arena you only need to worry about the 5 in your starting lineup. Gw you need your arena 5 plus at least 5 more to sub in and out. Raids if you get lucky and get 5 toons to escape you can get by with 20 but with no escapes (which my good toons never seem to be able to escape) you need 25. That's 25 toons you have to level to 80, gear and train abilities. I don't mind grinding and I don't think we should be able to get everything overnight, unless you want to fork over real cash. I have 17 level 7* toons at level 75 but a couple I can't afford to level at the moment as I'm slowly bringing those 17 to level 80. The credit crunch is real. I get the numbers on 10 days to 7* and reach level 80 that's great for just one toon. When this game is about collecting toons it should be less painful to promote and level your toons. As of right now you can't afford to make a mistake and level the wrong toon it would greatly impede your overall progress. Hence we keep seeing to same teams over and over in gw. Noone can afford to be daring and invest resources in a unknown toon.
IF you complete your GW each day, you will get around 448,840 credits
Cantina = around 100K if you refresh once.
Regular = 38K credits if you refresh 2 times. Also extra if you log in for bonus energy.
Challenge from Bounty Hunter = Around 120K per day. Since you can do bounty hunter on Sun, Tues, Friday . 837K per week.
You will get atleast 710K per day. A level 1 to lv80 and combined with promotion need around 6.5M credits. Literally you can do this in 9 - 10days.
@leeroyjenkins
You are making the assumption that people are using all their cantina battles on the highest difficulty. This is a pretty faulty assumption because most of the decent characters to farm after RG and Barriss aren't on those nodes. I have spent a while going after GS, Lando, Chewie, etc. after getting those two and I am getting nowhere near 100k with 2 refreshes a day.
You also ignore a lot of costs involved with leveling people like the almost 500k it costs to level abilities, the gear costs (not sure if star cost is in your figure either)
True..thanks for your input. I totally forgot about gear/level abilities. But even with those adjustment. People should atleast make 600K credits a day. that still 11days to get a 7* if you 100% completed GW. Since i only finish 80% of GW which around 9-11nodes. So i need extra days to acquire those credits.
If you are F2P and it actually take you longer to get shards to 7*. I'm sure you will have enough credits if you dont level up multiple heroes at a SAME time.
GW shipment = it take 16-22days to get 7* heroes (assumed you completed each day)
Arena shipment = 30days (assume you around 50rank)
Stop giving EA money until they change it. You have the power.
They answer to you. About time you realize that.
Many have stopped giving them (as much) money. As others said, why spend crystals on farming hard nodes for more characters you can't promote/level up? Why spend crystals on more chromium packs for characters you can't promote/level up? If you aren't prepared to pay more money for credit packs, there's no point in spending money on more characters at a certain point.
Good! That's the only way they will listen.
I spend about 300/day or 9300 a month on refreshes alone. Sometimes I'll save for a furnace.
But even spending 9300 a month I'm so broke I can't even level anything.
In what universe is that acceptable?
And that's being modest, a lot of days I'll blow 400-500.
I get freemium is supposed to make you chase a goal, but we should chase shards and gear.
They could solve credit crunch and gw at same time be easy as well. All they need to do is make an easy mode for gw by simple removing protection with the same payout that it is currently at. Then make the current state of gw hard mode and double the payouts. Simple! !!
The key is focusing on one hero at a time. It does get little harder as you level up, but it is very possible, maybe just not as fast as we wish it would be.
IF you complete your GW each day, you will get around 448,840 credits
Cantina = around 100K if you refresh once.
Regular = 38K credits if you refresh 2 times. Also extra if you log in for bonus energy.
Challenge from Bounty Hunter = Around 120K per day. Since you can do bounty hunter on Sun, Tues, Friday . 837K per week.
You will get atleast 710K per day. A level 1 to lv80 and combined with promotion need around 6.5M credits. Literally you can do this in 9 - 10days.
@leeroyjenkins
You are making the assumption that people are using all their cantina battles on the highest difficulty. This is a pretty faulty assumption because most of the decent characters to farm after RG and Barriss aren't on those nodes. I have spent a while going after GS, Lando, Chewie, etc. after getting those two and I am getting nowhere near 100k with 2 refreshes a day.
You also ignore a lot of costs involved with leveling people like the almost 500k it costs to level abilities, the gear costs (not sure if star cost is in your figure either)
True..thanks for your input. I totally forgot about gear/level abilities. But even with those adjustment. People should atleast make 600K credits a day. that still 11days to get a 7* if you 100% completed GW. Since i only finish 80% of GW which around 9-11nodes. So i need extra days to acquire those credits.
If you are F2P and it actually take you longer to get shards to 7*. I'm sure you will have enough credits if you dont level up multiple heroes at a SAME time.
GW shipment = it take 16-22days to get 7* heroes (assumed you completed each day)
Arena shipment = 30days (assume you around 50rank)
Cantina node = around 1.5 Months with 1 refresh.
Cantina shipment = 66days.
Hard Node = 3 - 4months..
I DO only level one hero at a time. And your math is still bad. I am easily farming an average of 4 toons per month to max for free with no chrome or aurodium packs ever. Just normal daily activities. If it takes 10-11 days to get enough credits to max a toon then at the end of a month I will have three max toons, and one sitting there with max shards at gear/level 1 that is completely unusable. At the end of 2 months I'll have 6 to use, and two that are unusable. I'm at 5 months of play, and I have 15 at max shards and in the 70ish level range, and 6 that are max shards, but totally un leveled and unusable. I have almost enough GW currency to max another just sitting there. I've started putting my thumb over it while I do GW so I don't have to look at it.
I don't want millions dropped on me this instant. I don't want it to be effortless to farm millions a day. I think if you pour a ton of crystals into packs you should have to spend crystals on credits for those toons too. I think if you try to level up every 2* garbage character that you pull from a bronze pack then you should be broke, and it's your own fault. I think you should have to manage your resources thoughtfully, and patiently. I don't want free access to all 80 toons in the game. I just want the rate that credits come in to be ruffly equal to the amount of shards that come in so that when I only focus on one toon at a time, and slowly farm them up, I can actually USE them when I'm done instead of steadily piling up max shard toons, and shard currency that are only usable if I spend hundreds of dollars.
I'm not exaggerating, or just expressing "feelings" about how the credit flow "feels". Your numbers are spot on with how many credits come in every month, but the rate that max shard toons come in is easily 33% faster. Even at the level cap no amount of patience and caution with how you spend will ever catch you up ever because every time the level cap goes up credit cost for just your few max toons goes up by millions, but the credit income sources have not been increased in any meaningful way since 2 cap increases ago. If some people think that you should have to pay $800-1000 per year just to use the free toons you can slowly farm free to play, and that it's a fair and enjoyable way to play then that's their opinion, and I disagree but that's just my opinion. But making the claim you CAN level up your max shard toons as they come in if you just focus on one at a time is false. That's not an opinion. Math says so. And the $800-1000 dollars is not an exaggeration or a guess. After 5 months of catious free to play farming it would cost about $350 to use just my max shard toons ONLY. If the pace I'm on continues that will be the per year cost.
If people want to spend money on gear to be above others in arena...great. If they want to pour money into brand new toons to be the only one that has them...great. If the whales want to beat everyone to the level cap by spending a ton...fine. If people want to spend a small amount to increase their farming speed...fine. I don't mind others being better than me in this game if they are so much better at life than I am that they can afford to pour thousands into an iPad tap game. Good for them. But if they want to keep a huge pool of hundreds of thousands of minnows for the whales to beat up on who steadily spend little bits here and there, then at least adjust it so that credits, droids, and shards flow slowly in at the same rate. If you can increase the rate by a little or a lot depending on what you want to spend, that's good too. But at least you can use the toons you have farmed to max if you're careful. That seams fair to me. But that's not the way things are now, and if you disagree then check your math.
I fail to see how credit crunch is any different from exponential XP for each lvl in any mmo.
It is way too fast to make lvl 80 to call it a grind. Lvl 80 means u played for 4 or 5 months. The credit thing is simply part of the grind.
The only difference is in Swgoh, you can get a few toons maxed pretty fast. Then you have to decide after that. In a regular japanaRPG, you make hardly any decision. All your toons level up at the same time. And it takes forever to max them all out at once.
im sure you can max out 4 heroes in 1 month when MAX LV is 70. It is Lv80 so that extra 10 level required 2.2M credits more.
Anyway i'm just give people a general ideas.. that it take 11-12days to farm enough credits for Lv1-80 and promotions. (if you completed GW, atleast rank 50 etc).
im sure you can max out 4 heroes in 1 month when MAX LV is 70. It is Lv80 so that extra 10 level required 2.2M credits more.
Anyway i'm just give people a general ideas.. that it take 11-12days to farm enough credits for Lv1-80 and promotions. (if you completed GW, atleast rank 50 etc).
Yes, you can max out your toons as you farm them when the max level is 70... But the max level isn't 70. It's 80. Every toon we had maxed before and every one we will max in the future went up by over 2 mill as you say. So how about add a small percentage increase in credit income for level 70+ players?
I had absolutely no complaints about credit flow at 70. The game was balanced just about right at that level. In fact you could actually start saving credits at the level cap. That I understand was not good for the game long term. I have no problem with upping the cap, and making people keep their credits focused on their main teams, then with patience being able to max out your B and C teams once you're at the new cap. But that isn't the situation. They have drastically increased cost without adding significant new income, and knocked things out of balance. You can never catch up your other teams. At some point you have to start flushing your GW/arena/cantina tokens down the toilet to just grind credit for months to catch up. In fact I've done the math. If I stop spending those three types of tokens on shards by the time I get the credits to upgrade ONLY my current max shard toons to level 80, I'll be sitting on almost 300,000 of those tokens combined not counting the shards I'll get from cantina and hard nodes.
I don't need someone telling me how to deal with it. I know how to deal with it. Just keep up a few toons, and let the others rot. What we're saying is that it's not good for the game. It hasn't always been that way. It's a new situation that has been created by the devs constantly tinkering with and adding too the game, and it's one they could fix in seconds. And leaving it unaddressed is irritating large numbers of their customers.
I fail to see how credit crunch is any different from exponential XP for each lvl in any mmo.
It is way too fast to make lvl 80 to call it a grind. Lvl 80 means u played for 4 or 5 months. The credit thing is simply part of the grind.
The only difference is in Swgoh, you can get a few toons maxed pretty fast. Then you have to decide after that. In a regular japanaRPG, you make hardly any decision. All your toons level up at the same time. And it takes forever to max them all out at once.
This isn't an MMO RPG. We can't go out and spend time grinding the credits we want. Our income is exactly fixed daily and it is exceeded by what our needs are as never before. But to use your example, as your level increases and xp needed to level up in an RPG goes up exponentially you also are given harder bad guys to fight, and tasks to perform that give exponentially more xp. They stopped adding credits, but keep ratcheting up the cost.
We are level 80 players with income adjusted right for level 70 players. I don't want every single toon to level up effortlessly with no decisions. I have no problem just leveling a small core group until the level cap, then slowly building diversity. I just would like enough credits to trickle in to eventually get the few select toons I have farmed to maxed shards up to 80 over time once I hit the level cap, and still be able to farm new toons to max. Right now as it stands I had Phasma at 330/80 shards for 4 months because I was just trying to stay alive in arena and GW. If you can farm toons to max shards but 25% of them will NEVER EVER EVER EVER be used EVER because you can't make credits as fast as shards I think that's a poor game design. Besides, I still have to fret over who gets gear. That will take years for just my tiny pool of toons. My gear 8 toons have become useless in the face of whale teams of all gear 10/11 toons. Isn't that a big enough pay gate that I can at least get my max shard toons only to 80?
Yea Credits are on a ridiculous shortage. I have about 5 characters right now sitting at 100/100 to promote to 7 stars but the credit shortage is hurting. Considering it costs credits to level them up every time and for purchasing ability upgrades. We need more credits is the thing. The credit challenge for example the level 62 tier is 83,000 the last tier the72 tier is 93,000. THATS IT:? Knowing we are level 75-80 and you give us 93k credits per go when it costs us to level 1 character 1 LEVEL from 77-78 about 245k credits? It's ridiculous.
No matter if you agree or disagree, basic fact is that people who have shortages (for whatever reason) are more likely to quit playing because they can't use a few of there grinded toons (fact). I know people in my guild stopped spending over it and dropped in activity. It works demotivating for people, especially the ones that make bad choices and can't adjust fast enough.
So credit crunch or not, the signals are there and it's a hot topic. It's not in the good of the game no matter which side your on.
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
They could solve credit crunch and gw at same time be easy as well. All they need to do is make an easy mode for gw by simple removing protection with the same payout that it is currently at. Then make the current state of gw hard mode and double the payouts. Simple! !!
And I like this idea also because many people don't have time for the current GW since it takes around 45 mins to an hour. You solve multiple problems at the same time here.
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
So you have two parties: one saying it takes too long to grind the credits, so customers aren't happy; and another party saying it works and can be done. Both are going to be opinion pieces. I'm first to say I'm really impatient in most things, so I use crystals quite a bit. However, whether we do or do not like how long it takes, it's our choice to play the game. Make sure you leave something in the Feedback forum, because feedback is invaluable, as long as it's done with self-control (no swearing, insulting, etc.).
Honestly, it's a great game, but you can't get on top in a few weeks; you gotta do the time (even if you pay to play).
When I have a bad RNG day, I like to listen to Don't Give Up, by Josh Grobin. I'm usually crying by the 12th node, but I made it!
So you have two parties: one saying it takes too long to grind the credits, so customers aren't happy; and another party saying it works and can be done. Both are going to be opinion pieces. I'm first to say I'm really impatient in most things, so I use crystals quite a bit. However, whether we do or do not like how long it takes, it's our choice to play the game. Make sure you leave something in the Feedback forum, because feedback is invaluable, as long as it's done with self-control (no swearing, insulting, etc.).
Honestly, it's a great game, but you can't get on top in a few weeks; you gotta do the time (even if you pay to play).
When I have a bad RNG day, I like to listen to Don't Give Up, by Josh Grobin. I'm usually crying by the 12th node, but I made it!
Wether or not the game is fine as is...that's opinion. Wether or not you can afford to level up the toons you farm is not. You can't. People can say it dismissively all they want, but it doesn't make it so. It's very easy to farm 4 toons per month to max shards with no packs, which means to match that we need about 7 million per week coming in. The most you can get is about 5 mill per week if you finish GW daily, and are in a guild raiding 3-4 times per week, and are doing high level cantina nodes+1 refresh daily, and doing every credit challenge, and all daily activities. So we have a choice to either pick which toons we have farmed 330 shards for that month to allow to sit unused, and slowly every month build a pool of maxed shard toons that will never get used, or pay about $800-1000 dollars yearly to use just the small pool of toons we have grinded for, or give up playing out of frustration. It's hard to discuss our opinions on: is this fair or enjoyable, and should it be changed, and what could be done differently when people can't agree on the math. No amount of "aw just be patient" will make an 8 million credit per month deficit go away. It just grows every day.
I do appreciate your diplomatic, and measured response though. I think we are trying to do exactly as you suggest, which is to discuss the issue rationally. I don't expect to be number one over night. In fact I don't ever expect to be number one ever again. I used to get the occasional #1 arena spot at payout on my server after 3 months of farming hard, and only $20 spent. But once the new levels and gear started in that came to a halt. When gear 10 Rey or Leia started one shot killing my 28k health tanks I knew that would probably mean being able to compete in arena was at an end. I'm totally fine with that. The whales can be on top. They paid for it. They deserve it. All I want is to have credits come in at the same rate shards come in, not so we can have every toon, but so that we can use all the toons we have patiently farmed.
And even though this has become frustrating I do still chose to subject myself to it, because this was a fun game. I invested many hours over 5 months, and hate to walk away, and flush all that work down the drain. Besides this is a game in flux. They are constantly adding content, and changing mechanics. This was a game where more credits flowed in than you could use. Too many in fact. Then they raised the level cap, and it became a game where you could only really afford to level/gear the toons you were farming to max, and that was only after you reached the level cap. (That was perfect BTW) Then they raised the cap again, and now it's a game where you can grind away at toons you'll never use because the costs are going up, but credit income isn't. If people had that issue at 70 they were just being impatient, and careless with their credits. But now it is real, and severe. It is a new development that has been created, and can be undone if people who haven't actually added up the costs would stop just defending the game with a knee **** reaction, or immediately dismissing anybody who points out things that could be done better as crybabies who want freebies. My hope is that we can talk about the problem, and draw attention to it, and maybe discuss ideas for what would be a better gaming experience as the devs continue to make changes. But instead of finding calm, thoughtful people like you we end up defending that the problem even exists from trolls who can't add.
Yeah, definitely don't feed trolls if you see them. I have a feedback thread asking if they would consider raising the rewards from Challenges for sure, maybe some other modes. Because I'm now level 80 and playing challenges for lvl72 heroes. I have seen others say that payouts on other modes haven't gone up since level 60, but that doesn't make sense, because they have these challenges with level 72 requirements.
I think change will come, but it's slow. We don't know how many folks are actually employed working on this game, and then there's the whole number crunching, measuring profit or profit loss, then responding to the market. It's not a few-week thing. Think of how long it took the Pewper Shell company to address the grind issue they introduced with Bash of Blands Brown Gall 11 update (names changed to protect identity).
These threads are all important, but guarantee, if we have as cordial conversation as you and I, it will be read and received better than the 'troll' festival tickets scattered all over the place.
Yeah, definitely don't feed trolls if you see them. I have a feedback thread asking if they would consider raising the rewards from Challenges for sure, maybe some other modes. Because I'm now level 80 and playing challenges for lvl72 heroes. I have seen others say that payouts on other modes haven't gone up since level 60, but that doesn't make sense, because they have these challenges with level 72 requirements.
Yes that challenge went from I think 83k to where is now at 93k. An extra 90k per week total is kind of silly in the face of a single level for one toon being nearly 300k. Also GW has not changed since apparently well before I stated. It's been locked at around 400k. A simple fix would be to add another challenge level at level 80 that lets you get 133k instead of 93k. Then raise the rewards for GW for players over a certain level to about 700k. That plus raid rewards and other odds and ends adds up to around 7mill per week as opposed to the current 5mill per week now, which is exactly what one would need just to keep up max shard toons only as they are farmed. And it would take quite a while even at the level cap. That might take some work coding wise. But it's not rocket science making credit farming and shard farming match fairly close math wise.
And I wouldn't mind a harder version of GW being needed to get the credits as long as it doesn't take more time. Bring on 8 nodes straight of all level 80 arena teams, instead of 12 nodes where half are level 68 Chewbaccas. I only use one team of all free toons to march thru GW daily. It burns a lot of time. But it isn't a challenge. I rarely need a B team anymore. I wouldn't mind a war that gave more credits to pay for the much higher cost of toons now, is doable for players 75+ but required you to use a deeper bench.
This isn't an MMO RPG. We can't go out and spend time grinding the credits we want.
Thank jeesus. If you think the ability to grind experience 20 hrs a day to get ahead is a good thing, that's your prerogative. Not everyone feels the same way. This game is more like Eve. Things happen in REAL time, per the 24 hr cycle, more or less. You just have to log and do a few chores.
Our income is exactly fixed daily
But this is not necessarily a problem. Time. Time is a factor. You can't get ahead by grinding 20 hrs a day. And I can't fall behind by NOT grinding 20 hrs a day. If you want to "play" a nice game where you can do that, there are plenty out there.
and it is exceeded by what our needs are as never before. But to use your example, as your level increases and xp needed to level up in an RPG goes up exponentially you also are given harder bad guys to fight, and tasks to perform that give exponentially more xp. They stopped adding credits, but keep ratcheting up the cost.
In most all rpg's it in fact takes exponentially longer to gain levels as you go. Even with the inflation. It's standard. Kill a rat, there's level 2. Then by the end, it takes hundreds of battles to gain a new level/ability. It's the only way to do it. By the time you get that close, you are invested, and a lot of players will continue to play. Sure, some quit. Those guys were going to quit AFTER they got all their toons leveled.... and realized what the heck was the point of getting all these toons? There's not much satisfaction in this goal. It's dumb. The game is dumb. That's the main problem. The journey is the hook, and it keeps more people playing than what you happen to think is good for the game.
You are looking only at the glass as half empty. You can STILL get your toons to level 70, faster than before, even, because they did add some credits. Getting them to 80 is purely optional. And it will take 16-20 days, not 7, to get all the ability mats for a maxed toon, anyway.
Why the rush to get ALL your toons to level 80, at the same time?
There is ZERO skill in this game. If it is easy to get all the toons you want, there are no risks or rewards. Just 2000 people running the same teams.
Because it takes a long time to grow a toon, we end up with more variation. And the teams that are not so good in Arena, RIGHT NOW, some of them will be good at some future point, when there are more teams that are finally filled out. The servers with all the same squads in the top.... they will change. The meta is in flux.
Do all the math you want. But TIME is the gate. It is supposed to be that way. And the grind IS the game. Just like it is with almost all of these styles of games.
No matter if you agree or disagree, basic fact is that people who have shortages (for whatever reason) are more likely to quit playing because they can't use a few of there grinded toons (fact). I know people in my guild stopped spending over it and dropped in activity. It works demotivating for people, especially the ones that make bad choices and can't adjust fast enough.
So credit crunch or not, the signals are there and it's a hot topic. It's not in the good of the game no matter which side your on.
This was the exact point I was trying to make.
It is stopping people spending and stopping people playing as much. Why buy crystals when I don't have credits to make them useful?
It is unhealthy for the game and I hope there are enough people that see this and stop buying crystals to force them to wake up and realize they are killing their game.
There is no reason why a level 80 should be earning the same rewards as a level 62 and have things costs 100s, even 1000s times more. It's pathetic and it is bad game design. It's unacceptable.
I cannot remember the last time I grinded a hard node because there is absolutely no point going for shards. Gear is all the rage and they have made that so long and boring as well to get.
This game use to be about grinding shards and leveling up toons to play with. Not anymore, now it's a game of doing a boring GW everyday to save up some credits so I can use an omega here and there and try get my top 5 to my player level, it sucks, it's boring.
The entire nature of this game has changed due to the credit shortage and honestly I don't think I'm alone when I say the excitement is fading as I never look forward to a new toon, it's all about raiding for gear that's drop rate is pathetic and could take 3 years to get. What's the point??
To those who say oh concentrate on 1 toon, be patient. This isn't what a game should be, that is not fun, that is boring, mundane and demotivating.
These games are about progression, that's what makes them fun, take away the progression and the fun goes with it.
The worst of it is is that the people in charge say nothing about it, they cannot give a valid reason as to why they have done this without sounding pathetically greedy and having no understanding of the fustration their customers face.
Bring back the game of heroes! We are sick and tired of playing the game of credits!
im sure you can max out 4 heroes in 1 month when MAX LV is 70. It is Lv80 so that extra 10 level required 2.2M credits more.
Anyway i'm just give people a general ideas.. that it take 11-12days to farm enough credits for Lv1-80 and promotions. (if you completed GW, atleast rank 50 etc).
Yes, you can max out your toons as you farm them when the max level is 70... But the max level isn't 70. It's 80. Every toon we had maxed before and every one we will max in the future went up by over 2 mill as you say. So how about add a small percentage increase in credit income for level 70+ players?
I had absolutely no complaints about credit flow at 70. The game was balanced just about right at that level. In fact you could actually start saving credits at the level cap. That I understand was not good for the game long term. I have no problem with upping the cap, and making people keep their credits focused on their main teams, then with patience being able to max out your B and C teams once you're at the new cap. But that isn't the situation. They have drastically increased cost without adding significant new income, and knocked things out of balance. You can never catch up your other teams. At some point you have to start flushing your GW/arena/cantina tokens down the toilet to just grind credit for months to catch up. In fact I've done the math. If I stop spending those three types of tokens on shards by the time I get the credits to upgrade ONLY my current max shard toons to level 80, I'll be sitting on almost 300,000 of those tokens combined not counting the shards I'll get from cantina and hard nodes.
I don't need someone telling me how to deal with it. I know how to deal with it. Just keep up a few toons, and let the others rot. What we're saying is that it's not good for the game. It hasn't always been that way. It's a new situation that has been created by the devs constantly tinkering with and adding too the game, and it's one they could fix in seconds. And leaving it unaddressed is irritating large numbers of their customers.
This is a perfect post. Couldn't agree more fervently.
im sure you can max out 4 heroes in 1 month when MAX LV is 70. It is Lv80 so that extra 10 level required 2.2M credits more.
Anyway i'm just give people a general ideas.. that it take 11-12days to farm enough credits for Lv1-80 and promotions. (if you completed GW, atleast rank 50 etc).
Yes, you can max out your toons as you farm them when the max level is 70... But the max level isn't 70. It's 80. Every toon we had maxed before and every one we will max in the future went up by over 2 mill as you say. So how about add a small percentage increase in credit income for level 70+ players?
I had absolutely no complaints about credit flow at 70. The game was balanced just about right at that level. In fact you could actually start saving credits at the level cap. That I understand was not good for the game long term. I have no problem with upping the cap, and making people keep their credits focused on their main teams, then with patience being able to max out your B and C teams once you're at the new cap. But that isn't the situation. They have drastically increased cost without adding significant new income, and knocked things out of balance. You can never catch up your other teams. At some point you have to start flushing your GW/arena/cantina tokens down the toilet to just grind credit for months to catch up. In fact I've done the math. If I stop spending those three types of tokens on shards by the time I get the credits to upgrade ONLY my current max shard toons to level 80, I'll be sitting on almost 300,000 of those tokens combined not counting the shards I'll get from cantina and hard nodes.
I don't need someone telling me how to deal with it. I know how to deal with it. Just keep up a few toons, and let the others rot. What we're saying is that it's not good for the game. It hasn't always been that way. It's a new situation that has been created by the devs constantly tinkering with and adding too the game, and it's one they could fix in seconds. And leaving it unaddressed is irritating large numbers of their customers.
This is a perfect post. Couldn't agree more fervently.
Why the rush to get ALL your toons to level 80, at the same time? If it is easy to get all the toons you want, there are no risks or rewards. Just 2000 people running the same teams.
Because it takes a long time to grow a toon, we end up with more variation. And the teams that are not so good in Arena, RIGHT NOW, some of them will be good at some future point, when there are more teams that are finally filled out. The servers with all the same squads in the top.... they will change. The meta is in flux.
I couldn't whole heartedly disagree more with everything you said. Taking a long time to grow toons chokes the life out of arena variation, and ensures we only ever see repeat teams. Nobody wants to take a risk that they'll farm a toon, and find out they are busted, then be so far behind that they never recover. So because it takes so long, we see people copying the success of others. There are around 80 toons, and about 12 of them make up 95% of top arena squads. Part of that is badly designed characters that don't work, but the cost/time it takes to get toons usable also contributes.
And to answer your question the rush to get my modest number of toons to at least max level, is to do well in raids. I've been in a guild doing 4 t5-6 raids per week since the day guilds were added. I haven't earned enough for a single whole piece of the new unobtainium gear. We are getting close to t7 strength, but it will take easily months if not a year just to get one arena squad the gear they need. It's annoying, and doesn't add to the enjoyment of the game to need 25 toons for this raid who are as strong as possible, and have an increasing pool of level one toons who are 330/80 shards that you worked on for months, and can't use.
And time is not the problem. MANY WILL NEVER BE USABLE BECAUSE CREDITS COME IN TO SLOWLY. By the time I get just my max shard toons to level 80 I'll have an even bigger pool of 330/80 toons to just sit on. If somebody needs $2000 per month to pay all their bills and survive, but only makes $1500, then time is not the solution. Making more money is. It isn't an impatient rush to have everything instantly. It would easily take years to unlock all toons in the game to 7*. Which I'll never do because some cost thousands of dollars. It will still take forever for a single toon to get all this unobtainium gear. Omega mats still trickle in one per day. I'm not going to have everything tomorrow, and get bored with the game by getting a FEW extra credits per day that I still have to work for, and manage.
I have a small pool of toons that have taken months to acquire. I want to ACTUALLY USE THEM. If I can earn enough to at least get toons to 80 as I farm them, then spend a few days to a week gearing them to 7/8, I can play with them in GW, I can use them for raids, and not die instantly. I can test them out, and see if they are worth gearing to 10-11, or worth the omega mats. I can decide if I want to build a team around them that could take many months to a year.
Also the bar is constantly being raised. More toons/gear/levels/challenges will be added. We'll have to stay at it or else in a few weeks the great teams we have now will be worthless next month. At level 70 I ONLY put credits into my max shard toons. I was broke just keeping up one team, but once I got to the level cap, I got my B team up to 70. I got to start testing the new toons I worked for. I started enjoying the game more. I also started stocking away credits for the new level cap. (About 10 million if I recall) then the new cap came, and I stayed broke just trying to survive in arena, and GW (again). I hoped that now that I'm at 80 I could start bringing my second and third teams up to 80 for raids, and start using these 330/80 toons who are still level 1. But no. The costs per level are so high now that it will never happen. You can't catch up.
I have no issue with the bar being raised. It gives us something to shoot for. But if we don't have the ability to reach it, then people get frustrated and quit. For me the absolute bare minimum level I think toons need to get to once you've spent all the time to farm them to 7* is level 80/gear 8. Being broke constantly just keeping up my arena team is fine, until I hit the cap. Then I would like to slowly, one at a time get my backup teams to that minimum level. They would then be of more help in getting the gear that will take me forever to get for my one team, that the whales bought almost instantly. Then I could maybe even save a few credits for the next cap increase. But that can't happen, because the last couple of times the bar was raised, income wasn't raised to match.
So patience isn't the problem. I am patiently using the credits I get on just the toons that are the most urgent. But gathering toons you can't use isn't fun. Looking at max shard toons, and knowing you'll never use them isn't fun. It's supposed to be a game. Not work. Since the game is in flux as you say, why is everyone so dead set that it's perfect as is? What's the problem with credit sources matching costs the way they did at 70? Why does that income level have to be fixed in stone as level costs go up by x10, and then x100, and then x1000? How is having time now, at the level cap, to start bringing up our bench players to the new normal before the new normal becomes level 90 a bad thing? Endlessly chasing our tails is what keeps this game going, but only if we're allowed to catch it for a little while occasionally.
About 2 weeks ago I was on a sever credit crunch, but now that I am about 1 day away from level 80 i find myself with 4M plus credits... I haven't been doing anything differently and still have a decent amount of characters to bring up to 79 and eventually 80, but i figure what else is the level cap for but to catch up. Give it some time and you will probably be ok...
About 2 weeks ago I was on a sever credit crunch, but now that I am about 1 day away from level 80 i find myself with 4M plus credits... I haven't been doing anything differently and still have a decent amount of characters to bring up to 79 and eventually 80, but i figure what else is the level cap for but to catch up. Give it some time and you will probably be ok...
4million credits will be gone very quickly.
I've been 80 for a few weeks now and you'll see it's coming, you will be blocked from any progression because you'll be broke in a day.
About 2 weeks ago I was on a sever credit crunch, but now that I am about 1 day away from level 80 i find myself with 4M plus credits... I haven't been doing anything differently and still have a decent amount of characters to bring up to 79 and eventually 80, but i figure what else is the level cap for but to catch up. Give it some time and you will probably be ok...
I'm at level 80. Have been for a while. And as I said many time before, the flow of shards coming in far exceeds your flow of credits. We did the math above. You cannot catch up unless you accept that you will have 330 shards for toons that will never get used.
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+1
This exactly. Their time frames are crazy.
So you figured it out, it wasn't that difficult. Stop accumulating debt until you have earned enough to pay it off. One can easily make 4mil + per week just from Challenges and GW. That should be sufficient to service one new character per week.
If you want to continually impose increasing debt upon yourself, that is your business, but don't cry foul, begging for more money because you cannot control your impulses.
You are making the assumption that people are using all their cantina battles on the highest difficulty. This is a pretty faulty assumption because most of the decent characters to farm after RG and Barriss aren't on those nodes. I have spent a while going after GS, Lando, Chewie, etc. after getting those two and I am getting nowhere near 100k with 2 refreshes a day.
You also ignore a lot of costs involved with leveling people like the almost 500k it costs to level abilities, the gear costs (not sure if star cost is in your figure either)
Your math is off. You need about 7 million to upgrade/level a new character to max. It super easy to farm on average a toon a week to max shards or more, but there is no way to farm that many credits per week. It isn't an impulse control problem. I never level toons I'm not farming to max. In fact there are several that sat at level 1/gear 1 with enough shards to max out without putting one single credit into them (some still are), because I needed the credits just to keep up with a few essential toons. There is currently no way to ever catch up except skipping my mortgage payment, and putting it in to a tap game. Then 5-6 months from now, I'll be in the same shape.
Single levels for one toon now cost between 1/4 to 1/3 of a million credits, and they haven't increased our income level significantly since levels cost a few thousand. If you like a game where it takes months of work to farm a toon to max, but it's mathematically impossible to ever have the credits to use him even at the level cap, we are from different planets. I think if you decide in a disciplined way to farm a small number of toons to max, not waste a penny on other random toon, then you should be able to make enough credits to... I don't know... USE them when you finish. But you can't. You have to pick which ones to leave sitting there. Then pick a new set of toons to start farming, knowing that 25% of that effort is a giant waste of time and effort.
I have tens of thousands of GW tokens now I'm never going to use because of the slow credit flow. I've said before I wish there was a garbage can in the game to dump them in since they'll never get used. But no. You're totally right. Why ask that we get a slight percentage increase in daily income now that toon costs at 80 have literally gone up hundreds of times what they used to be. Surely everyone will be able to pay $1000 a year to be able to play this game. ($1000 is what it would cost me just to use the toons I can farm to 7* in that amount of time if I farm every credit I can without ever missing, and use all the crystals I can get f2p wisely, and never put a penny into any toon that isn't max stars ever) Yup. Totally reasonable.
Many have stopped giving them (as much) money. As others said, why spend crystals on farming hard nodes for more characters you can't promote/level up? Why spend crystals on more chromium packs for characters you can't promote/level up? If you aren't prepared to pay more money for credit packs, there's no point in spending money on more characters at a certain point.
True..thanks for your input. I totally forgot about gear/level abilities. But even with those adjustment. People should atleast make 600K credits a day. that still 11days to get a 7* if you 100% completed GW. Since i only finish 80% of GW which around 9-11nodes. So i need extra days to acquire those credits.
If you are F2P and it actually take you longer to get shards to 7*. I'm sure you will have enough credits if you dont level up multiple heroes at a SAME time.
Good! That's the only way they will listen.
I spend about 300/day or 9300 a month on refreshes alone. Sometimes I'll save for a furnace.
But even spending 9300 a month I'm so broke I can't even level anything.
In what universe is that acceptable?
And that's being modest, a lot of days I'll blow 400-500.
I get freemium is supposed to make you chase a goal, but we should chase shards and gear.
Credits should not be a bottleneck.
I DO only level one hero at a time. And your math is still bad. I am easily farming an average of 4 toons per month to max for free with no chrome or aurodium packs ever. Just normal daily activities. If it takes 10-11 days to get enough credits to max a toon then at the end of a month I will have three max toons, and one sitting there with max shards at gear/level 1 that is completely unusable. At the end of 2 months I'll have 6 to use, and two that are unusable. I'm at 5 months of play, and I have 15 at max shards and in the 70ish level range, and 6 that are max shards, but totally un leveled and unusable. I have almost enough GW currency to max another just sitting there. I've started putting my thumb over it while I do GW so I don't have to look at it.
I don't want millions dropped on me this instant. I don't want it to be effortless to farm millions a day. I think if you pour a ton of crystals into packs you should have to spend crystals on credits for those toons too. I think if you try to level up every 2* garbage character that you pull from a bronze pack then you should be broke, and it's your own fault. I think you should have to manage your resources thoughtfully, and patiently. I don't want free access to all 80 toons in the game. I just want the rate that credits come in to be ruffly equal to the amount of shards that come in so that when I only focus on one toon at a time, and slowly farm them up, I can actually USE them when I'm done instead of steadily piling up max shard toons, and shard currency that are only usable if I spend hundreds of dollars.
I'm not exaggerating, or just expressing "feelings" about how the credit flow "feels". Your numbers are spot on with how many credits come in every month, but the rate that max shard toons come in is easily 33% faster. Even at the level cap no amount of patience and caution with how you spend will ever catch you up ever because every time the level cap goes up credit cost for just your few max toons goes up by millions, but the credit income sources have not been increased in any meaningful way since 2 cap increases ago. If some people think that you should have to pay $800-1000 per year just to use the free toons you can slowly farm free to play, and that it's a fair and enjoyable way to play then that's their opinion, and I disagree but that's just my opinion. But making the claim you CAN level up your max shard toons as they come in if you just focus on one at a time is false. That's not an opinion. Math says so. And the $800-1000 dollars is not an exaggeration or a guess. After 5 months of catious free to play farming it would cost about $350 to use just my max shard toons ONLY. If the pace I'm on continues that will be the per year cost.
If people want to spend money on gear to be above others in arena...great. If they want to pour money into brand new toons to be the only one that has them...great. If the whales want to beat everyone to the level cap by spending a ton...fine. If people want to spend a small amount to increase their farming speed...fine. I don't mind others being better than me in this game if they are so much better at life than I am that they can afford to pour thousands into an iPad tap game. Good for them. But if they want to keep a huge pool of hundreds of thousands of minnows for the whales to beat up on who steadily spend little bits here and there, then at least adjust it so that credits, droids, and shards flow slowly in at the same rate. If you can increase the rate by a little or a lot depending on what you want to spend, that's good too. But at least you can use the toons you have farmed to max if you're careful. That seams fair to me. But that's not the way things are now, and if you disagree then check your math.
It is way too fast to make lvl 80 to call it a grind. Lvl 80 means u played for 4 or 5 months. The credit thing is simply part of the grind.
The only difference is in Swgoh, you can get a few toons maxed pretty fast. Then you have to decide after that. In a regular japanaRPG, you make hardly any decision. All your toons level up at the same time. And it takes forever to max them all out at once.
im sure you can max out 4 heroes in 1 month when MAX LV is 70. It is Lv80 so that extra 10 level required 2.2M credits more.
Anyway i'm just give people a general ideas.. that it take 11-12days to farm enough credits for Lv1-80 and promotions. (if you completed GW, atleast rank 50 etc).
I had absolutely no complaints about credit flow at 70. The game was balanced just about right at that level. In fact you could actually start saving credits at the level cap. That I understand was not good for the game long term. I have no problem with upping the cap, and making people keep their credits focused on their main teams, then with patience being able to max out your B and C teams once you're at the new cap. But that isn't the situation. They have drastically increased cost without adding significant new income, and knocked things out of balance. You can never catch up your other teams. At some point you have to start flushing your GW/arena/cantina tokens down the toilet to just grind credit for months to catch up. In fact I've done the math. If I stop spending those three types of tokens on shards by the time I get the credits to upgrade ONLY my current max shard toons to level 80, I'll be sitting on almost 300,000 of those tokens combined not counting the shards I'll get from cantina and hard nodes.
I don't need someone telling me how to deal with it. I know how to deal with it. Just keep up a few toons, and let the others rot. What we're saying is that it's not good for the game. It hasn't always been that way. It's a new situation that has been created by the devs constantly tinkering with and adding too the game, and it's one they could fix in seconds. And leaving it unaddressed is irritating large numbers of their customers.
This isn't an MMO RPG. We can't go out and spend time grinding the credits we want. Our income is exactly fixed daily and it is exceeded by what our needs are as never before. But to use your example, as your level increases and xp needed to level up in an RPG goes up exponentially you also are given harder bad guys to fight, and tasks to perform that give exponentially more xp. They stopped adding credits, but keep ratcheting up the cost.
We are level 80 players with income adjusted right for level 70 players. I don't want every single toon to level up effortlessly with no decisions. I have no problem just leveling a small core group until the level cap, then slowly building diversity. I just would like enough credits to trickle in to eventually get the few select toons I have farmed to maxed shards up to 80 over time once I hit the level cap, and still be able to farm new toons to max. Right now as it stands I had Phasma at 330/80 shards for 4 months because I was just trying to stay alive in arena and GW. If you can farm toons to max shards but 25% of them will NEVER EVER EVER EVER be used EVER because you can't make credits as fast as shards I think that's a poor game design. Besides, I still have to fret over who gets gear. That will take years for just my tiny pool of toons. My gear 8 toons have become useless in the face of whale teams of all gear 10/11 toons. Isn't that a big enough pay gate that I can at least get my max shard toons only to 80?
So credit crunch or not, the signals are there and it's a hot topic. It's not in the good of the game no matter which side your on.
And I like this idea also because many people don't have time for the current GW since it takes around 45 mins to an hour. You solve multiple problems at the same time here.
Honestly, it's a great game, but you can't get on top in a few weeks; you gotta do the time (even if you pay to play).
When I have a bad RNG day, I like to listen to Don't Give Up, by Josh Grobin. I'm usually crying by the 12th node, but I made it!
Wether or not the game is fine as is...that's opinion. Wether or not you can afford to level up the toons you farm is not. You can't. People can say it dismissively all they want, but it doesn't make it so. It's very easy to farm 4 toons per month to max shards with no packs, which means to match that we need about 7 million per week coming in. The most you can get is about 5 mill per week if you finish GW daily, and are in a guild raiding 3-4 times per week, and are doing high level cantina nodes+1 refresh daily, and doing every credit challenge, and all daily activities. So we have a choice to either pick which toons we have farmed 330 shards for that month to allow to sit unused, and slowly every month build a pool of maxed shard toons that will never get used, or pay about $800-1000 dollars yearly to use just the small pool of toons we have grinded for, or give up playing out of frustration. It's hard to discuss our opinions on: is this fair or enjoyable, and should it be changed, and what could be done differently when people can't agree on the math. No amount of "aw just be patient" will make an 8 million credit per month deficit go away. It just grows every day.
I do appreciate your diplomatic, and measured response though. I think we are trying to do exactly as you suggest, which is to discuss the issue rationally. I don't expect to be number one over night. In fact I don't ever expect to be number one ever again. I used to get the occasional #1 arena spot at payout on my server after 3 months of farming hard, and only $20 spent. But once the new levels and gear started in that came to a halt. When gear 10 Rey or Leia started one shot killing my 28k health tanks I knew that would probably mean being able to compete in arena was at an end. I'm totally fine with that. The whales can be on top. They paid for it. They deserve it. All I want is to have credits come in at the same rate shards come in, not so we can have every toon, but so that we can use all the toons we have patiently farmed.
And even though this has become frustrating I do still chose to subject myself to it, because this was a fun game. I invested many hours over 5 months, and hate to walk away, and flush all that work down the drain. Besides this is a game in flux. They are constantly adding content, and changing mechanics. This was a game where more credits flowed in than you could use. Too many in fact. Then they raised the level cap, and it became a game where you could only really afford to level/gear the toons you were farming to max, and that was only after you reached the level cap. (That was perfect BTW) Then they raised the cap again, and now it's a game where you can grind away at toons you'll never use because the costs are going up, but credit income isn't. If people had that issue at 70 they were just being impatient, and careless with their credits. But now it is real, and severe. It is a new development that has been created, and can be undone if people who haven't actually added up the costs would stop just defending the game with a knee **** reaction, or immediately dismissing anybody who points out things that could be done better as crybabies who want freebies. My hope is that we can talk about the problem, and draw attention to it, and maybe discuss ideas for what would be a better gaming experience as the devs continue to make changes. But instead of finding calm, thoughtful people like you we end up defending that the problem even exists from trolls who can't add.
I think change will come, but it's slow. We don't know how many folks are actually employed working on this game, and then there's the whole number crunching, measuring profit or profit loss, then responding to the market. It's not a few-week thing. Think of how long it took the Pewper Shell company to address the grind issue they introduced with Bash of Blands Brown Gall 11 update (names changed to protect identity).
These threads are all important, but guarantee, if we have as cordial conversation as you and I, it will be read and received better than the 'troll' festival tickets scattered all over the place.
Yes that challenge went from I think 83k to where is now at 93k. An extra 90k per week total is kind of silly in the face of a single level for one toon being nearly 300k. Also GW has not changed since apparently well before I stated. It's been locked at around 400k. A simple fix would be to add another challenge level at level 80 that lets you get 133k instead of 93k. Then raise the rewards for GW for players over a certain level to about 700k. That plus raid rewards and other odds and ends adds up to around 7mill per week as opposed to the current 5mill per week now, which is exactly what one would need just to keep up max shard toons only as they are farmed. And it would take quite a while even at the level cap. That might take some work coding wise. But it's not rocket science making credit farming and shard farming match fairly close math wise.
And I wouldn't mind a harder version of GW being needed to get the credits as long as it doesn't take more time. Bring on 8 nodes straight of all level 80 arena teams, instead of 12 nodes where half are level 68 Chewbaccas. I only use one team of all free toons to march thru GW daily. It burns a lot of time. But it isn't a challenge. I rarely need a B team anymore. I wouldn't mind a war that gave more credits to pay for the much higher cost of toons now, is doable for players 75+ but required you to use a deeper bench.
Thank jeesus. If you think the ability to grind experience 20 hrs a day to get ahead is a good thing, that's your prerogative. Not everyone feels the same way. This game is more like Eve. Things happen in REAL time, per the 24 hr cycle, more or less. You just have to log and do a few chores.
But this is not necessarily a problem. Time. Time is a factor. You can't get ahead by grinding 20 hrs a day. And I can't fall behind by NOT grinding 20 hrs a day. If you want to "play" a nice game where you can do that, there are plenty out there.
In most all rpg's it in fact takes exponentially longer to gain levels as you go. Even with the inflation. It's standard. Kill a rat, there's level 2. Then by the end, it takes hundreds of battles to gain a new level/ability. It's the only way to do it. By the time you get that close, you are invested, and a lot of players will continue to play. Sure, some quit. Those guys were going to quit AFTER they got all their toons leveled.... and realized what the heck was the point of getting all these toons? There's not much satisfaction in this goal. It's dumb. The game is dumb. That's the main problem. The journey is the hook, and it keeps more people playing than what you happen to think is good for the game.
You are looking only at the glass as half empty. You can STILL get your toons to level 70, faster than before, even, because they did add some credits. Getting them to 80 is purely optional. And it will take 16-20 days, not 7, to get all the ability mats for a maxed toon, anyway.
Why the rush to get ALL your toons to level 80, at the same time?
There is ZERO skill in this game. If it is easy to get all the toons you want, there are no risks or rewards. Just 2000 people running the same teams.
Because it takes a long time to grow a toon, we end up with more variation. And the teams that are not so good in Arena, RIGHT NOW, some of them will be good at some future point, when there are more teams that are finally filled out. The servers with all the same squads in the top.... they will change. The meta is in flux.
Do all the math you want. But TIME is the gate. It is supposed to be that way. And the grind IS the game. Just like it is with almost all of these styles of games.
This was the exact point I was trying to make.
It is stopping people spending and stopping people playing as much. Why buy crystals when I don't have credits to make them useful?
It is unhealthy for the game and I hope there are enough people that see this and stop buying crystals to force them to wake up and realize they are killing their game.
There is no reason why a level 80 should be earning the same rewards as a level 62 and have things costs 100s, even 1000s times more. It's pathetic and it is bad game design. It's unacceptable.
I cannot remember the last time I grinded a hard node because there is absolutely no point going for shards. Gear is all the rage and they have made that so long and boring as well to get.
This game use to be about grinding shards and leveling up toons to play with. Not anymore, now it's a game of doing a boring GW everyday to save up some credits so I can use an omega here and there and try get my top 5 to my player level, it sucks, it's boring.
The entire nature of this game has changed due to the credit shortage and honestly I don't think I'm alone when I say the excitement is fading as I never look forward to a new toon, it's all about raiding for gear that's drop rate is pathetic and could take 3 years to get. What's the point??
To those who say oh concentrate on 1 toon, be patient. This isn't what a game should be, that is not fun, that is boring, mundane and demotivating.
These games are about progression, that's what makes them fun, take away the progression and the fun goes with it.
The worst of it is is that the people in charge say nothing about it, they cannot give a valid reason as to why they have done this without sounding pathetically greedy and having no understanding of the fustration their customers face.
Bring back the game of heroes! We are sick and tired of playing the game of credits!
This is a perfect post. Couldn't agree more fervently.
+1
And to answer your question the rush to get my modest number of toons to at least max level, is to do well in raids. I've been in a guild doing 4 t5-6 raids per week since the day guilds were added. I haven't earned enough for a single whole piece of the new unobtainium gear. We are getting close to t7 strength, but it will take easily months if not a year just to get one arena squad the gear they need. It's annoying, and doesn't add to the enjoyment of the game to need 25 toons for this raid who are as strong as possible, and have an increasing pool of level one toons who are 330/80 shards that you worked on for months, and can't use.
And time is not the problem. MANY WILL NEVER BE USABLE BECAUSE CREDITS COME IN TO SLOWLY. By the time I get just my max shard toons to level 80 I'll have an even bigger pool of 330/80 toons to just sit on. If somebody needs $2000 per month to pay all their bills and survive, but only makes $1500, then time is not the solution. Making more money is. It isn't an impatient rush to have everything instantly. It would easily take years to unlock all toons in the game to 7*. Which I'll never do because some cost thousands of dollars. It will still take forever for a single toon to get all this unobtainium gear. Omega mats still trickle in one per day. I'm not going to have everything tomorrow, and get bored with the game by getting a FEW extra credits per day that I still have to work for, and manage.
I have a small pool of toons that have taken months to acquire. I want to ACTUALLY USE THEM. If I can earn enough to at least get toons to 80 as I farm them, then spend a few days to a week gearing them to 7/8, I can play with them in GW, I can use them for raids, and not die instantly. I can test them out, and see if they are worth gearing to 10-11, or worth the omega mats. I can decide if I want to build a team around them that could take many months to a year.
Also the bar is constantly being raised. More toons/gear/levels/challenges will be added. We'll have to stay at it or else in a few weeks the great teams we have now will be worthless next month. At level 70 I ONLY put credits into my max shard toons. I was broke just keeping up one team, but once I got to the level cap, I got my B team up to 70. I got to start testing the new toons I worked for. I started enjoying the game more. I also started stocking away credits for the new level cap. (About 10 million if I recall) then the new cap came, and I stayed broke just trying to survive in arena, and GW (again). I hoped that now that I'm at 80 I could start bringing my second and third teams up to 80 for raids, and start using these 330/80 toons who are still level 1. But no. The costs per level are so high now that it will never happen. You can't catch up.
I have no issue with the bar being raised. It gives us something to shoot for. But if we don't have the ability to reach it, then people get frustrated and quit. For me the absolute bare minimum level I think toons need to get to once you've spent all the time to farm them to 7* is level 80/gear 8. Being broke constantly just keeping up my arena team is fine, until I hit the cap. Then I would like to slowly, one at a time get my backup teams to that minimum level. They would then be of more help in getting the gear that will take me forever to get for my one team, that the whales bought almost instantly. Then I could maybe even save a few credits for the next cap increase. But that can't happen, because the last couple of times the bar was raised, income wasn't raised to match.
So patience isn't the problem. I am patiently using the credits I get on just the toons that are the most urgent. But gathering toons you can't use isn't fun. Looking at max shard toons, and knowing you'll never use them isn't fun. It's supposed to be a game. Not work. Since the game is in flux as you say, why is everyone so dead set that it's perfect as is? What's the problem with credit sources matching costs the way they did at 70? Why does that income level have to be fixed in stone as level costs go up by x10, and then x100, and then x1000? How is having time now, at the level cap, to start bringing up our bench players to the new normal before the new normal becomes level 90 a bad thing? Endlessly chasing our tails is what keeps this game going, but only if we're allowed to catch it for a little while occasionally.
4million credits will be gone very quickly.
I've been 80 for a few weeks now and you'll see it's coming, you will be blocked from any progression because you'll be broke in a day.