I'm aware my Mace looks stupidly overpowered to some. It's just an idea. Also, I put him side by side other top tier characters like Count Dooku and Darth Sidious who in my opinion, are NOT OP, just really strong.
I would like to see most if not all characters good and viable in their own way, amongst the same levels.
Mace Windu is #2 only to Yoda. Yet in-game his theme is 100% off and he isn't powerful at all.
Side by side comparison of my idea and Dooku and Sidious, I don't think he's is all that much more powerful aside from how well you would apply his leader ability. He would be somewhat squishy like Darth Maul, but with tons of raw power. That's applied with taking 25% bonus damage.
I also wanted to make him anti-sith with bonus damage purely due to the fact that Vaapad revolves around the idea of embracing one's own fury, and turning an opponent's darkness against them.
I'm aware this idea may not be implemented, that's not what I'm really asking here.
What I'm asking for is that they rework Mace Windu appropriately and not leave him in the dust.
I wish the strengths of characters along with their value in-game matched their strength as it appeared in the films. Mace was second in command behind Yoda, in this game mediocre. Many others in this game are similar...
I agree with your analysis (especially about Windu). Not entirely sure about the numbers in your suggested abilities, but I like how they reflect canon more than the current ones.
I accept mace needs a rework, but hell no about more than 50% of your ideas on Mace. You pretty much took the things that makes several other characters good and adjusted them to suit Mace. If Ea does half of the buffs you want they may as well re-release the starter pack back to everyone because they will make hundreds of millions.
Im truly sorry you spent your money on those characters, but one you should have done some research before investing and two if you want something to be buffed, dont propose such an overwhelming buff because it will not happen.
Er
Did he say he spent money?
Did you thing he suggest the buff seriously?
Have no clue how anyone can assume Mace won the fight he died in.
He was landing the killing blow on Sidious, but Anakin stopped him.
Let's say it was a 1 v 1 without anyone else in the room, pretend Anakin wasn't there. Didn't Windu win?
No. Sidious had already killed 3 other Jedi. Pretending other things weren't going on is silly.
I find the assumption that Sid would have killed Mace even if Anakin weren't around as amusing and even more silly... but I guess that isn't the focal point of this post.
Have no clue how anyone can assume Mace won the fight he died in.
He was landing the killing blow on Sidious, but Anakin stopped him.
Let's say it was a 1 v 1 without anyone else in the room, pretend Anakin wasn't there. Didn't Windu win?
No. Sidious had already killed 3 other Jedi. Pretending other things weren't going on is silly.
I find the assumption that Sid would have killed Mace even if Anakin weren't around as amusing and even more silly... but I guess that isn't the focal point of this post.
Yep. Just more opinions.
Not like the 3 other Jedi did anything to Sidious, whereas Anakin blocked a killing blow and cut off his hand.
Not like Sidious was on the floor without a lightsaber with lightning not working.
As far as OP a buff to Jedis could be something as simple as "Dmg increase/ chance of ability block/stun against 'FORCE USERS'". I really feel like they shouldn't exactly be at a sever disadvantage knowning full well what things can be done using the force. Also this brings into the light characters like Cad Bane. Who says his skills gained against Jedi aren't as equally effective against sith targets? It would make him more viable when used against any light saber user. This could be applied elsewhere to varying degrees.
Also want that Plo buff but we just have to wait n see how the cookie crumbles.
Lots of Jedi are terrible ie Windu and Plo while some are absute beasts like Ayala and Lumi. Seems like current meta is pushing Jedi out with Sith being superior and Droid teams starting to crop up. Arena at the higher ranks is pretty much almost full sith teams +Poe since his high speed and taunt/expose is just stupidly unbalanced. Pretty clear that everything is going against Jedi (Sith, Droid, Bounty Hunters). Gonna just have to either farm out a new team and start over or wait it out a few months till everyone jumps ship and meta changes in favor.
All Jedi really have is healing buts that's almost nullified in pvp. Sith teams with Poe expose + Sid aoe leaving a team at or below half life with only 2 characters attacking not even counting if Kylo is in as well lol. Droids it's the same issue except they are just really high damage and speed but low hp so if you do manage to survive the first volley you can heal up but chances are your attackers are already down. Sometimes you can claw your way back into the fight with some good RNG on dodges/attacks and it's fun making a comeback but it's not going to happen often.
Have no clue how anyone can assume Mace won the fight he died in.
He was landing the killing blow on Sidious, but Anakin stopped him.
Let's say it was a 1 v 1 without anyone else in the room, pretend Anakin wasn't there. Didn't Windu win?
No. Sidious had already killed 3 other Jedi. Pretending other things weren't going on is silly.
I find the assumption that Sid would have killed Mace even if Anakin weren't around as amusing and even more silly... but I guess that isn't the focal point of this post.
Why was any of the Jedi there to begin with? Sidious planned the whole thing and knew Anakin would stop them and turn to the dark side.
Lots of Jedi are terrible ie Windu and Plo while some are absute beasts like Ayala and Lumi. Seems like current meta is pushing Jedi out with Sith being superior and Droid teams starting to crop up. Arena at the higher ranks is pretty much almost full sith teams +Poe since his high speed and taunt/expose is just stupidly unbalanced. Pretty clear that everything is going against Jedi (Sith, Droid, Bounty Hunters). Gonna just have to either farm out a new team and start over or wait it out a few months till everyone jumps ship and meta changes in favor.
All Jedi really have is healing buts that's almost nullified in pvp. Sith teams with Poe expose + Sid aoe leaving a team at or below half life with only 2 characters attacking not even counting if Kylo is in as well lol. Droids it's the same issue except they are just really high damage and speed but low hp so if you do manage to survive the first volley you can heal up but chances are your attackers are already down. Sometimes you can claw your way back into the fight with some good RNG on dodges/attacks and it's fun making a comeback but it's not going to happen often.
Not once have I seen a full Sith team in Galactic Warfare or Arena.
Savage is rarely seen in Arena or GW.
Maul might be used by a few P2P but pretty rare.
Vader is capped at 5*.
Dooku is somewhat common but fairly easy to deal with.
Sidious is widely used. However, Luminara and Sidious are probably 1A and 1B of the most used characters.
Qui Gon is the Jedi version of Maul. High damage and chromium only. Qui Gon actually has more utility.
Jedi Consular is in a way the Jedi version of Dooku. Pretty common, fairly easy to deal with but also easier to 7*.
Aayla, Anakin, Old Ben, Kit Fisto, Ima-Gun Do, and Barriss are all solid.
Eeth Koth fills a niche. Ironically, its anti droids.
Plo, Mace, and Ahsoka could admittedly use some work.
Jedi far outnumber Sith( and any other race). This opens up many opportunities and different leadership synergies not obtainable.
My honest opinion is that the "Order 66 Nerf" is a bunch of malarkey. Jedi are still viable and offer many more options than any other race.
Have no clue how anyone can assume Mace won the fight he died in.
He was landing the killing blow on Sidious, but Anakin stopped him.
Let's say it was a 1 v 1 without anyone else in the room, pretend Anakin wasn't there. Didn't Windu win?
No. Sidious had already killed 3 other Jedi. Pretending other things weren't going on is silly.
I find the assumption that Sid would have killed Mace even if Anakin weren't around as amusing and even more silly... but I guess that isn't the focal point of this post.
Why was any of the Jedi there to begin with? Sidious planned the whole thing and knew Anakin would stop them and turn to the dark side.
Eh... I really don't want to derail off the topic, but you are not answering the point that was raised. It was mentioned that Sid was simply screwing around and would have still killed Mace (without Anakin) and Yoda.
1. Yes, he had been plotting all along to turn Anakin to the Dark Side, but that had nothing to do with him losing the light sabre duel with Mace. Are you suggesting that Sid had even planned Mace & Co. showing up on that very hour, he would kill three but leave Mace alive, pretend to lose, hope Anakin shows up on time (for joke's sake, what if he got caught in a traffic jam? Lol) and chop off Mace's hand (what if he just stepped in front of Mace and blocked his blow)? Wow. What a stretch of imagination. He did, however, make the best use out of the situation given to him and finally turned Anakin
2. Sid had a stalemate with Yoda. This is indisputable. Why would he goof around if he were clearly better and had the chance to eliminate arguably the biggest threat to his new empire?
I'll keep an eye on Mace Windu, since I just got him today on a Bronzium pack! my first 4* pull ever (not even from Chromium had I got a 4* pull! lol).
I'm just waiting for the daily reset to gear him and level him up, since I'll complete some daily tasks while doing so.
I really think that Sidious was just acting when he lost to Mace so as to turn Anakin. I mean, has anyone seen Clone Wars series Sidious (where his in game model was based on)? i don't see Mace beating someone like that.
Have no clue how anyone can assume Mace won the fight he died in.
He was landing the killing blow on Sidious, but Anakin stopped him.
Let's say it was a 1 v 1 without anyone else in the room, pretend Anakin wasn't there. Didn't Windu win?
No. Sidious had already killed 3 other Jedi. Pretending other things weren't going on is silly.
I find the assumption that Sid would have killed Mace even if Anakin weren't around as amusing and even more silly... but I guess that isn't the focal point of this post.
Why was any of the Jedi there to begin with? Sidious planned the whole thing and knew Anakin would stop them and turn to the dark side.
Eh... I really don't want to derail off the topic, but you are not answering the point that was raised. It was mentioned that Sid was simply screwing around and would have still killed Mace (without Anakin) and Yoda.
1. Yes, he had been plotting all along to turn Anakin to the Dark Side, but that had nothing to do with him losing the light sabre duel with Mace. Are you suggesting that Sid had even planned Mace & Co. showing up on that very hour, he would kill three but leave Mace alive, pretend to lose, hope Anakin shows up on time (for joke's sake, what if he got caught in a traffic jam? Lol) and chop off Mace's hand (what if he just stepped in front of Mace and blocked his blow)? Wow. What a stretch of imagination. He did, however, make the best use out of the situation given to him and finally turned Anakin
2. Sid had a stalemate with Yoda. This is indisputable. Why would he goof around if he were clearly better and had the chance to eliminate arguably the biggest threat to his new empire?
I hate to agree with anything pay2win says cause he's a complete troll (which is what he's doing to you, by the way, by baiting you...despite being right)....but read the novelization of RotS. In it, it's very clear not only did Palpatine set up his "loss" in order to turn Anakin, but it talks about how even Anakin realized this when Palpatine went from apparently helpless to massively powerful once he had Anakin in his clutches.
The novelization also illustrates that Yoda firmly lost to him in their duel. That he recognized that not only had he been overpowered but outsmarted. They really do a poor job of demonstrating that part in the movie. It kinda sucks cause it feeds into the fanboyism of Palpatine.
I hate to agree with anything pay2win says cause he's a complete troll (which is what he's doing to you, by the way, by baiting you...despite being right)....but read the novelization of RotS. In it, it's very clear not only did Palpatine set up his "loss" in order to turn Anakin, but it talks about how even Anakin realized this when Palpatine went from apparently helpless to massively powerful once he had Anakin in his clutches.
The novelization also illustrates that Yoda firmly lost to him in their duel. That he recognized that not only had he been overpowered but outsmarted. They really do a poor job of demonstrating that part in the movie. It kinda sucks cause it feeds into the fanboyism of Palpatine.
Fair point and I admit I have not read the novel (nor will I ever do given how sad the Prequels are), but I guess we can all agree that no source triumphs over George Lucas, the creator behind this whole "mess."
So... Mr. Lucas?
"Okay, well, this sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. And it always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later, 'cause this is, it moved the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here, and you can see now, that it's very clear that he's, he, he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers."
- The Revenge of the Sith commentary
Those two phrases highlighted in bold are what supports the view that a) Mace won the duel (though he probably isn't as strong as Sid in the Force as numerous Star Wars sources allude that only Yoda is equal to Sid), and b) Sid then made the best use out of the situation (i.e. pretended to be weak and appealed to Anakin's fear) to accomplish his plot.
Another source:
"It's one of the fieriest debates of online fan forums: when Palpatine was cornered in his office's giant window-frame, was he really overpowered by Mace? Or was he faking to lure Anakin? Could Mace really have gotten the upper hand on the Sith Lord?
George Lucas is the ultimate keeper of the true answer, and he's not telling... yet, anyway. If you had asked me in the Summer of '03, when the sequence was first shot, I would have had a solid answer. But, if you asked me in the Fall of '04, when the sequence was re-shot, well... for those who want to debate, it's best to know more of the story of how this scene came to be.
This entire sequence changed significantly during postproduction. What we witnessed in Sydney told a different story. Anakin did not earn Mace's trust by ratting out Sidious right away. He did not agonize over his decisions while sitting alone in the Jedi Council chamber. He did not rush in at the last minute to witness a questionable balance of power. Instead, he stayed at Palpatine's side, in the Chancellor's private office, as Mace and his posse of Jedi barged in.
So... with this revised duel, if Sidious threw the fight, it places an awful lot of faith on Anakin's timing ...and he suffered a kicked-in face to boot. For what it's worth to those arguing, I doubt there's anyone who thinks Palpatine's serious when he claims he's too weak. That's obviously a lie. But was the fall into the corner that preceded his pleas for help a lie as well?"
- Homing Beacon #139
I will leave it here as this is not going to be resolved among ourselves. Besides, this forum is about the game, not about the movie or Star Wars Universe.
It will always be a question! Imo when Anakin killed Mace, his journey to the darkside was complete (he also slaughtered those younglings but was Dark already imo).
The 3 jedi accompanying Mace died way too fast... Very lame choreo but w/e. I have a feeling Mace might have been stronger but Palpatine definately triggered Anakin there. Maybe Palpatine saw this in a force vision if dark side have those
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
Han has horrible stats. Just abysmal. Fives has no taunt, you can ignore him in a fight and save him for last so he will only counter when the last man standing. Obiwan is also left for last, he has the highest tank stats in the game and an amazing ability when struck down. Both of which are useless when left for last. Same goes for Finn, tanky but can be ignored.
As for Poe, to be honest I haven't faced him at all in PVP. On paper he looks like a viable tank.
My point about Savage Opress is that he suffers like many other "tanks" in which he can be absolutely ignored in a fight and saved for last, while posing next to no threat.
To address your very first point made "that sith characters feel essentially superior to jedi chatacters"
If thats the case (im not sold i agree) but IF thats the case, it'd be acurate to the lore. Remember that sidious was just screwing around with yoda/mace an voulda killed then any time he wished. Like it or not, the sith are hands down far mire powerful then the jedi.
As far as I know, Mace Windu beat Sidious in a lightsaber dual, and Yoda was stalemated with Sidious. We don't know if he was actually more powerful.
He could have been toying with them for other means but we will never know for sure.
Also I don't know if the game IS going for lore, or for actual gameplay viability. I'm pretty sure one slash from a lightsaber will kill just about any character in the game, so in my eyes I think they are at least somewhat trying to make everyone even and viable, even outside the lore.
Sidious Stalemated with Yoda. So if Yoda comes out & sid is far superior & any sith im gonna be infuriated.
I think Sid is just a bunch of power packed into one character. Some of it is sensible but what makes him ridiculous is that he actually IS ridiculous in that he has so many things going on in one character. More stuff=more power.
I also think Sid is strong due to his crit and dodge/heal ability, but also the healing debuff. It counters the supposed meta of high damage and healing, but he also prevents healing. So he has high damage, healing, AND debuff against healing.
I'm not sure the game's approach is to make the most powerful/iconic in power characters, actually the most powerful. Rey for example has the highest potential damage output in the game if I'm not mistaken, but she doesn't have the force and is just using a staff in this incarnation.
I agree Han has some crummy stats, but doesn't make him worthless by any means. My guess is you haven't had to face a well geared turn meter team, with han, in the hands of the amazing AI bonus machine. It's a brutal defensive team when you're not prepared for it.
Poe is the current defacto meta tank in level 60 PvP. He gets his taunts off so fast that glass cannons can do their work. Poe, FOTP, Leia, Lumi (for the heal), (insert favorite 5th) are one of the top comp makeups running around.
Agree Mace needs an overhaul- maybe not like OP suggested, but an overhaul nonetheless, they totally screwed the pooch with him.
Replies
I'm aware my Mace looks stupidly overpowered to some. It's just an idea. Also, I put him side by side other top tier characters like Count Dooku and Darth Sidious who in my opinion, are NOT OP, just really strong.
I would like to see most if not all characters good and viable in their own way, amongst the same levels.
Mace Windu is #2 only to Yoda. Yet in-game his theme is 100% off and he isn't powerful at all.
Side by side comparison of my idea and Dooku and Sidious, I don't think he's is all that much more powerful aside from how well you would apply his leader ability. He would be somewhat squishy like Darth Maul, but with tons of raw power. That's applied with taking 25% bonus damage.
I also wanted to make him anti-sith with bonus damage purely due to the fact that Vaapad revolves around the idea of embracing one's own fury, and turning an opponent's darkness against them.
I'm aware this idea may not be implemented, that's not what I'm really asking here.
What I'm asking for is that they rework Mace Windu appropriately and not leave him in the dust.
Er
Did he say he spent money?
Did you thing he suggest the buff seriously?
He was landing the killing blow on Sidious, but Anakin stopped him.
Let's say it was a 1 v 1 without anyone else in the room, pretend Anakin wasn't there. Didn't Windu win?
No. Sidious had already killed 3 other Jedi. Pretending other things weren't going on is silly.
I find the assumption that Sid would have killed Mace even if Anakin weren't around as amusing and even more silly... but I guess that isn't the focal point of this post.
Yep. Just more opinions.
Not like the 3 other Jedi did anything to Sidious, whereas Anakin blocked a killing blow and cut off his hand.
Not like Sidious was on the floor without a lightsaber with lightning not working.
As far as OP a buff to Jedis could be something as simple as "Dmg increase/ chance of ability block/stun against 'FORCE USERS'". I really feel like they shouldn't exactly be at a sever disadvantage knowning full well what things can be done using the force. Also this brings into the light characters like Cad Bane. Who says his skills gained against Jedi aren't as equally effective against sith targets? It would make him more viable when used against any light saber user. This could be applied elsewhere to varying degrees.
Also want that Plo buff but we just have to wait n see how the cookie crumbles.
My 2 cents.
All Jedi really have is healing buts that's almost nullified in pvp. Sith teams with Poe expose + Sid aoe leaving a team at or below half life with only 2 characters attacking not even counting if Kylo is in as well lol. Droids it's the same issue except they are just really high damage and speed but low hp so if you do manage to survive the first volley you can heal up but chances are your attackers are already down. Sometimes you can claw your way back into the fight with some good RNG on dodges/attacks and it's fun making a comeback but it's not going to happen often.
Why was any of the Jedi there to begin with? Sidious planned the whole thing and knew Anakin would stop them and turn to the dark side.
Not once have I seen a full Sith team in Galactic Warfare or Arena.
Savage is rarely seen in Arena or GW.
Maul might be used by a few P2P but pretty rare.
Vader is capped at 5*.
Dooku is somewhat common but fairly easy to deal with.
Sidious is widely used. However, Luminara and Sidious are probably 1A and 1B of the most used characters.
Qui Gon is the Jedi version of Maul. High damage and chromium only. Qui Gon actually has more utility.
Jedi Consular is in a way the Jedi version of Dooku. Pretty common, fairly easy to deal with but also easier to 7*.
Aayla, Anakin, Old Ben, Kit Fisto, Ima-Gun Do, and Barriss are all solid.
Eeth Koth fills a niche. Ironically, its anti droids.
Plo, Mace, and Ahsoka could admittedly use some work.
Jedi far outnumber Sith( and any other race). This opens up many opportunities and different leadership synergies not obtainable.
My honest opinion is that the "Order 66 Nerf" is a bunch of malarkey. Jedi are still viable and offer many more options than any other race.
Eh... I really don't want to derail off the topic, but you are not answering the point that was raised. It was mentioned that Sid was simply screwing around and would have still killed Mace (without Anakin) and Yoda.
1. Yes, he had been plotting all along to turn Anakin to the Dark Side, but that had nothing to do with him losing the light sabre duel with Mace. Are you suggesting that Sid had even planned Mace & Co. showing up on that very hour, he would kill three but leave Mace alive, pretend to lose, hope Anakin shows up on time (for joke's sake, what if he got caught in a traffic jam? Lol) and chop off Mace's hand (what if he just stepped in front of Mace and blocked his blow)? Wow. What a stretch of imagination. He did, however, make the best use out of the situation given to him and finally turned Anakin
2. Sid had a stalemate with Yoda. This is indisputable. Why would he goof around if he were clearly better and had the chance to eliminate arguably the biggest threat to his new empire?
I'm just waiting for the daily reset to gear him and level him up, since I'll complete some daily tasks while doing so.
I hate to agree with anything pay2win says cause he's a complete troll (which is what he's doing to you, by the way, by baiting you...despite being right)....but read the novelization of RotS. In it, it's very clear not only did Palpatine set up his "loss" in order to turn Anakin, but it talks about how even Anakin realized this when Palpatine went from apparently helpless to massively powerful once he had Anakin in his clutches.
The novelization also illustrates that Yoda firmly lost to him in their duel. That he recognized that not only had he been overpowered but outsmarted. They really do a poor job of demonstrating that part in the movie. It kinda sucks cause it feeds into the fanboyism of Palpatine.
Fair point and I admit I have not read the novel (nor will I ever do given how sad the Prequels are), but I guess we can all agree that no source triumphs over George Lucas, the creator behind this whole "mess."
So... Mr. Lucas?
"Okay, well, this sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. And it always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later, 'cause this is, it moved the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here, and you can see now, that it's very clear that he's, he, he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers."
- The Revenge of the Sith commentary
Those two phrases highlighted in bold are what supports the view that a) Mace won the duel (though he probably isn't as strong as Sid in the Force as numerous Star Wars sources allude that only Yoda is equal to Sid), and b) Sid then made the best use out of the situation (i.e. pretended to be weak and appealed to Anakin's fear) to accomplish his plot.
Another source:
"It's one of the fieriest debates of online fan forums: when Palpatine was cornered in his office's giant window-frame, was he really overpowered by Mace? Or was he faking to lure Anakin? Could Mace really have gotten the upper hand on the Sith Lord?
George Lucas is the ultimate keeper of the true answer, and he's not telling... yet, anyway. If you had asked me in the Summer of '03, when the sequence was first shot, I would have had a solid answer. But, if you asked me in the Fall of '04, when the sequence was re-shot, well... for those who want to debate, it's best to know more of the story of how this scene came to be.
This entire sequence changed significantly during postproduction. What we witnessed in Sydney told a different story. Anakin did not earn Mace's trust by ratting out Sidious right away. He did not agonize over his decisions while sitting alone in the Jedi Council chamber. He did not rush in at the last minute to witness a questionable balance of power. Instead, he stayed at Palpatine's side, in the Chancellor's private office, as Mace and his posse of Jedi barged in.
So... with this revised duel, if Sidious threw the fight, it places an awful lot of faith on Anakin's timing ...and he suffered a kicked-in face to boot. For what it's worth to those arguing, I doubt there's anyone who thinks Palpatine's serious when he claims he's too weak. That's obviously a lie. But was the fall into the corner that preceded his pleas for help a lie as well?"
- Homing Beacon #139
I will leave it here as this is not going to be resolved among ourselves. Besides, this forum is about the game, not about the movie or Star Wars Universe.
The 3 jedi accompanying Mace died way too fast... Very lame choreo but w/e. I have a feeling Mace might have been stronger but Palpatine definately triggered Anakin there. Maybe Palpatine saw this in a force vision if dark side have those
I agree Han has some crummy stats, but doesn't make him worthless by any means. My guess is you haven't had to face a well geared turn meter team, with han, in the hands of the amazing AI bonus machine. It's a brutal defensive team when you're not prepared for it.
Agree Mace needs an overhaul- maybe not like OP suggested, but an overhaul nonetheless, they totally screwed the pooch with him.