☽ Team Instinct™ ☾ EwokRampage's Nerf/Buff Compendium for Level 70
January 10, 2016 8:54PM
edited January 2016
As the update to level 70 looms near I would like to make a last ditch effort to share my opinion with the developers and forum about what I think a fair buff and nerf for the current class of characters would look like.
NERFS
Poe
At the highest level of arena many players are experiencing the influx of Poe. He is incredibly fast and has a taunt that lowers turn meter. Many battles at the high level are simply a matter of which Poe goes first. If you don't have Poe you are at a severe disadvantage. With the update to 70 Poe actually gets much much much worse. He now moves to a turn 7 attack(read team instinct speed guide to understand) at 143 speed. This means even with Leia and Dooku on an opposing team Poe can go first. This is unacceptable and game breaking. My nerf for Poe would consist of him having 1 less speed. This puts him back in turn 8. Making him go behind the top tier of speedsters and allowing some counter play against him where everyone just knocks him out before he goes. This is all you have to do to make Poe a balanced tank(still slightly OP) for the update to 70. Taking off %'s or messing with his skills is absolutely the wrong way to approach nerfing this champ.
First Order Tie Pilot
Being able to one shot someone consistently while being tanky is enough to warrant a nerf. Keep in mind FoTP is naturally getting a nerf when going to 70. He gets stuck in Gear 8 while everyone else increases. We just happen to get him in a very overpowered stage of his leveling process. The change I would like to see happen to him is just decrease the % chance his double tap has of activating. He is still slow and tanky, and should not be able to one shot anyone in this new patch unless they are incredibly weak or unprotected. By having even a 15% less chance to double tap puts very big ? on whether he should replace some other attackers that are also good, instead of always being the best damage pick regardless of synergies.
Leia
Leia actually doesn't need to be nerfed just fixed. As more characters move into turn 7 with Leia and Dooku their usefulness as the perfect filler pick deteriorate so she is naturally getting weaker in the move to level 70. Couple with the fact that her crit and heal will function correctly now makes her even less useful and brings her into the middle of the pack in terms of being a filler to a team. She will now function well in a rebel team and crit team, but isn't required for every team at high level play anymore.
Others
I really don't believe that any other character needs a nerf at this point. While you may say Sid with his last buff is overpowered, he really isn't. I actually like that he is fairly prominent as the best leader because it gives f2p characters a large benefit to be able to max him out and have him be a good leader for most of the team comps.
BUFFS
Mace Windu
Like the other recent post I agree that Mace's kit is very underwhelming and does not see any use in arena. They should really just wipe the slate clean with that character. What I would like to see with Mace's Kit.
1. A dramatic increase in speed preferably 143+ at 70, or at least above 140.
2. Get rid of the idea of him being a tank, the jedi have enough tanks.
3. He would be perfect as as support character, here are my idea on his skills.
a. Basic skill has high % chance of giving a low turn meter boost to his team, does bad to medium damage.
b. Special skill is single target medium to high damage skill that inflicts buff immunity, with a chance to spread it to one other enemy.
c.His Leader skill should be Potency 45% to all allies at max level.
d.His unique should give him some counter percentage, with a chance of also removing a single buff from the target.
He works well with counter jedi synergy, he has a good leader skill that a lot of teams could make use of, he is very anti-poe which is the flavor of the month at the moment, and he is not especially overpowered.
Ugnaught
Currently the worst character in the game. There are a few simple things they can do to make him semi viable. They need to give him a massive health boost so he doesn't get slaughtered when facing an actual droid team. His skills should at least give a high % debuff to the enemy team. My thoughts is actually making a new debuff just for him call Disadvantage, you have already seen the icon on Boss fights it allows any attacks on that specific enemy to bypass armor/resistance, like the opposite of advantage.
Ewoks/Tuskens/Clones
To make their synergies viable they need at least 1 or two more members to combine with. I would recommend just adding new characters that have these type of synergies. That would instantly make all the characters that use it more viable.
Scoundrels
Scoundrels are currently in dire straits at the moment. A lot of there characters use the thermal detonator skill which is just completely terrible in arena. Reduce the turn requirement by thermal detonator to go off by one. Also add the condition that if you throw a thermal detonator on someone who already has one they both immediately go off. When FoTP can take off 75% of your health in a basic attack, having the thermals go off while combating tenacity seems like a good equalizer. This would immediately make a scoundrel team viable in arena.
Any other thoughts on specific buff or nerfs I would love to hear feedback from the forum community I will try and add them into this post!
NERFS
Poe
At the highest level of arena many players are experiencing the influx of Poe. He is incredibly fast and has a taunt that lowers turn meter. Many battles at the high level are simply a matter of which Poe goes first. If you don't have Poe you are at a severe disadvantage. With the update to 70 Poe actually gets much much much worse. He now moves to a turn 7 attack(read team instinct speed guide to understand) at 143 speed. This means even with Leia and Dooku on an opposing team Poe can go first. This is unacceptable and game breaking. My nerf for Poe would consist of him having 1 less speed. This puts him back in turn 8. Making him go behind the top tier of speedsters and allowing some counter play against him where everyone just knocks him out before he goes. This is all you have to do to make Poe a balanced tank(still slightly OP) for the update to 70. Taking off %'s or messing with his skills is absolutely the wrong way to approach nerfing this champ.
First Order Tie Pilot
Being able to one shot someone consistently while being tanky is enough to warrant a nerf. Keep in mind FoTP is naturally getting a nerf when going to 70. He gets stuck in Gear 8 while everyone else increases. We just happen to get him in a very overpowered stage of his leveling process. The change I would like to see happen to him is just decrease the % chance his double tap has of activating. He is still slow and tanky, and should not be able to one shot anyone in this new patch unless they are incredibly weak or unprotected. By having even a 15% less chance to double tap puts very big ? on whether he should replace some other attackers that are also good, instead of always being the best damage pick regardless of synergies.
Leia
Leia actually doesn't need to be nerfed just fixed. As more characters move into turn 7 with Leia and Dooku their usefulness as the perfect filler pick deteriorate so she is naturally getting weaker in the move to level 70. Couple with the fact that her crit and heal will function correctly now makes her even less useful and brings her into the middle of the pack in terms of being a filler to a team. She will now function well in a rebel team and crit team, but isn't required for every team at high level play anymore.
Others
I really don't believe that any other character needs a nerf at this point. While you may say Sid with his last buff is overpowered, he really isn't. I actually like that he is fairly prominent as the best leader because it gives f2p characters a large benefit to be able to max him out and have him be a good leader for most of the team comps.
BUFFS
Mace Windu
Like the other recent post I agree that Mace's kit is very underwhelming and does not see any use in arena. They should really just wipe the slate clean with that character. What I would like to see with Mace's Kit.
1. A dramatic increase in speed preferably 143+ at 70, or at least above 140.
2. Get rid of the idea of him being a tank, the jedi have enough tanks.
3. He would be perfect as as support character, here are my idea on his skills.
a. Basic skill has high % chance of giving a low turn meter boost to his team, does bad to medium damage.
b. Special skill is single target medium to high damage skill that inflicts buff immunity, with a chance to spread it to one other enemy.
c.His Leader skill should be Potency 45% to all allies at max level.
d.His unique should give him some counter percentage, with a chance of also removing a single buff from the target.
He works well with counter jedi synergy, he has a good leader skill that a lot of teams could make use of, he is very anti-poe which is the flavor of the month at the moment, and he is not especially overpowered.
Ugnaught
Currently the worst character in the game. There are a few simple things they can do to make him semi viable. They need to give him a massive health boost so he doesn't get slaughtered when facing an actual droid team. His skills should at least give a high % debuff to the enemy team. My thoughts is actually making a new debuff just for him call Disadvantage, you have already seen the icon on Boss fights it allows any attacks on that specific enemy to bypass armor/resistance, like the opposite of advantage.
Ewoks/Tuskens/Clones
To make their synergies viable they need at least 1 or two more members to combine with. I would recommend just adding new characters that have these type of synergies. That would instantly make all the characters that use it more viable.
Scoundrels
Scoundrels are currently in dire straits at the moment. A lot of there characters use the thermal detonator skill which is just completely terrible in arena. Reduce the turn requirement by thermal detonator to go off by one. Also add the condition that if you throw a thermal detonator on someone who already has one they both immediately go off. When FoTP can take off 75% of your health in a basic attack, having the thermals go off while combating tenacity seems like a good equalizer. This would immediately make a scoundrel team viable in arena.
Any other thoughts on specific buff or nerfs I would love to hear feedback from the forum community I will try and add them into this post!
0
Replies
Well done- Cheers!
Here is the link for it https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/5069/a-team-instinct-special-speed-and-you/p1
QGJ needs a nerf too (lower or remove the damage bonus from his assist), but whale teams only care about Poe cause he hurts their p2w single target line ups
He's the only usable tank and it's a good thing they gave him the toolkit he has. We need more options like him to combat different strategies.
Edit: Plo Koon is easily a candidate for a buff. His second ability should have at least an 80% chance of offense down to be more on par with Old Ben.
I am trying to be very non biased. Poe Leia and fotp are actually my best characters. I have already a team I am leveling for level 70 in mind so I am adapting trust me, I am just listing some balance changes I would like to see happen to make more characters useful in arena instead of just the same handful I always see.
You act like the only viable arena teams are single target based, and that's not the case at all. That's just the preferred meta game choice for your team.
Poe helps greatly against these teams and is a great addition to the roster how he's currently positioned. =
Mostly agreed on the buff section. Maybe IG-88 could use something similar to what Sid got (i.e. "+10% Dodge against enemy attacks" added to his unique). His description mentions him being a "High-damage stifler with high dodge" yet there is no dodge mechanic in his kit. Could potentially help him/his low hp for the coming storm.
That said i'm not sure if now is the right time for the (minor) adjustments. Maybe something like 2 weeks into level 70 would be a more appropriate time for it.
If having Poe on your team being mandatory to remain in top 10 is what you want then sure let him go unnerfed. You realize that at 143 speed he can not only go before dooku but he drops the entire enemy team in to turn 9. This means your entire team unless you are using under 111 speeds go before the enemy. That is like having slow tanks go before dooku which is just stupid.
The reason why qui gon doesn't need a nerf is he stays in turn 8 and he is still squishy allowing him to easily be destroyed before he goes to counter him. He has specific uses but nothing amazing that warrants a nerf. With a lot of his synergies being trashed with order 66 patch nerfing the best Jedi is just beating someone when they already tapped out.
Speed isn't everything. If damage was tuned down a little we'd have a completely different game where reactive play is possible. QGJ definitely needs a nerf currently if you're arguing for nerfs on the characters you listed above.
Also, you're referencing speculative numbers about level 70 stats that are unconfirmed, and calling for a nerf in part based on this.
A tank that does practically Barriss level damage isn't the problem at all, it's the possible damage from FOTP/Leia/GS, etc, in combination with assisting threats, most notably QGJ that need a adjustment. If a 50% damage buff on an assist (2 high damage attacks in one turn) isn't totally imbalanced given the current damage potential from these 7* teams idk what is.
Why do you care about balancing a game so early though and given that 70 is just the next temporary stopping point? We also have more toons coming and more buffs, etc potentially. I'm fully against any nerfs until the game matures and we can properly evaluate. Gear 8 is not the last gear either - can we just have some patience and see what happens - then we can make good recommendations? Please...let's not relive the Barriss nerf disaster where too many assessed a toon way too early and she was nerfed completely unnecessarily.
FOTP does have his double strike lower already - it's called not having advantage. The AI may not know that well, but players do and you should be attacking him so that he loses adv if he gets it. Or...hit him with damage down. Old Ben turns FOTP in to a non-factor with damage down. You also noted that he's gear capped next time and pointed out his main aspect of one-shotting stuff often. Well, when others come up and he's stuck he won't be doing that as much. So if you prematurely lower that now + the gear cap factor...how do you know what FOTP is worth? He is really one dimensional. He adds nothing else to a team except his damaging skills. You take that away...he becomes a legitimately totally worthless toon. It's a very very fine balancing act with toons like him that really only do one thing really well. He's also fairly slow as well - he's dependent on other meter manipulation toons to make him highly effective. I don't think that the skills of others bringing him forward should result in him being nerfed.
Actually, speed is everything.
What's the point of having a team of heavy hitters if they never get a chance? At least Dooku and Daka (with the speed bonus from Asajj) can possibly neutralise Poe's taunt in the current world (but even that is a big if because of his high tenacity).
However, if Poe does go first in the new world and ahead of even Dooku as some speculate, then as EwokRampage pointed out, there is no other counter other than having your Poe go first. The definition of OP is when there is no counter.
Actually it's +75% damage buff on assist
I'd agree with this - but the issue is even at lvl 70 - gear 8 - that's not end game. Sure it's the next temporary new world, but it's still not the finish line. Should we balance stuff before we really know where it's going to end up...where other toons will end up...and what new toons / mechanics will be introduced in the coming weeks and months? Does it even matter for now and at lvl 70 that he's really strong? Let's even just assume he has no counter at his lvl 70 g8, but at full end game he is countered by multiple toons. What's the proper action? What if at g9 many toons get a lot of speed? What if they come out with a new toon that has a counter mechanic or buff something else that mitigates Poe? Why just suggest a nerf? I just don't think we have sufficient information on where the game really is at this point to confidently say nerf this nerf that.
Well the whole point of this post is to discuss buffs and nerfs that could/might happen in the upcoming patch, which only a week or two away. I am going off gear data that is already in the game for the upcoming tiers that was datamined along time ago and is now on swgohcantina. The fact is fotp can do 16k in one basic attack now even before he gets 10 levels more worth of stats, he is still overpowered and he will still be viable even if his damage does go down. I am sure once whatever the new meta is everyone starts copying we will have another one of these threads.
Swgoh is a very complicated balancing act, changing damage output over all characters is more then likely going to make some other team composition, probably healer/tank, even more of a must have pick to be competitive. If what what the current datamined stats are true characters are going to have a lot more health think 17500 plus at even 70. This is the counter to those high single target teams. The goal with this post is try and change a fairly balanced system very little to eliminate "must have" picks which ruins the amount of viable arena teams.
Just jam all the highest attacking fastest characters and see who wins? This is what you're arguing for.
It's good to shake up the meta. As new characters are added there will hopefully be more characters that are viable outside of the "high st damage high speed" meta, and will you call for a nerf there too?
Change will happen, power creep will happen. This is a mobile game, people.
First off if I wanted it to be a high speed high damage meta why call for fix of Leia who is the best at that?
There are actually tank/healing builds viable at level 70, but no one in this forum bothers maxing out, testing them, or doing the math so they never end up in conversation. And I have done a lot of testing to find those builds so I am not saying what they are
Agreed with this. People need to calm down and see how lvl cap70 plays out.
Spot on.
Nerfing Poe will remove the only farmable recourse regular players have against these extreme high damage P2W squads.
If we are realistic here FoTP almost always has advantage unless you just aren't damaging your opponent. Even with 30% instead of 45% chance on double tap he is still using two attacks 60% of the time, this isn't a nerf that even hits his physical damage stat so the gun down ability is still doing the same damage.
I mean if you guys really really want Poe to not be nerfed sure you could do that. But all those p2w teams will continue to use Poe too. So the end game is everyone has Poe, whoever gets their poe to go first wins, who wants that
I keep telling you there are teams you can farm with f2p that will be amazing in 70 meta, droids, geo and poggle, hoth rebel scout and a bunch of others. You keep saying poe is your only hope but really he is not.