Screw that, it's not the end of the discussion. I have 30+ 7* G9/10 toons and T6 is dragging on for ever.
Do I have to shop around for another guild? Is that what they want?
I understand that we are not 85 yet ... so give us something we can finish in a reasonable amount of time at lvl 82.
I wonder if this is the point? The Rancor raid basically encouraged stronger players to go off and form their own little guilds where they could get #1 all the time.
This does the opposite and encourages consolidation into guilds of stronger players to beat heroic. I'm glad I stuck with my group now though.
Part of the problem is shock I think. First raid was hard bc we only had the preview info. Second raid was significantly easier.
I'm hoping this won't be like the mod fiasco where CG over reacted to players initial reactions and basically ruined it.
I would agree that a T5 might be a good thing though. Something similar in difficulty to Heroic rancor bc I think guilds are annoyed when they have currency they can't use. Maybe even a lower difficulty so guilds could use the currency.
Ye because T6 is such a great raid... So great that you can't even finish it without reaching 150k cap again.
That's bad design. Also lvl 85 won't increase your dmg by that large of a margin. In the current pace, even a 100% dmg increase being at lvl 85 will still make T6 too slow/hard for current guilds.
I'm in a pretty good guild and after 3 resets we are halfway P2. This isn't balanced nor tested. Sure Heroic has been tested because TI wanted a challenge but they couldn't care less for the other 99% and it shows.
Raid is fun but at this rate I doubt my guild will stay intact. People already complaining they have too much to do now;
Rancor Raid
AAT Raid (5 battles every day for at least a week or 2)
Your sim stuff (challenges, nodes, cantina etc)
Arena
GW
People will lose interest after they cleared normal AAT for a few times. Rewards are bad. 2 weeks of raiding for 1 mill gold, some guild creds and the chance on some new gear. 2 weeks? That's a joke. Lvl 85 won't change this.
I think people are used to being able to solo the pit. Never should have been a thing, a raid should take your whole guild and a bit of time to finish.
Personally enjoying it, my guilds chat is full of people sharing strategies and general discussion about the raid. Great change compared to the quiet of the last month or so.
Yes not this hard man where we attack with the same team over and over again maybe 1 or twice but not like 4 or 5 times man
T6 of the Tank raid isn't supposed to be the same difficulty as T6 of the Pit. It's supposed to be a lot harder. Thats why the rewards are twice as high for Tank Takedown.
I get that the Tank raid is supposed to be harder. But our guild can finish T6 of the Pit with just one refresh. So far we've not even gotten halfway through P1 of the Tank raid. It's on track to take 30x longer for only 2x the rewards?
T6 of the Tank raid isn't supposed to be the same difficulty as T6 of the Pit. It's supposed to be a lot harder. Thats why the rewards are twice as high for Tank Takedown.
I get that the Tank raid is supposed to be harder. But our guild can finish T6 of the Pit with just one refresh. So far we've not even gotten halfway through P1 of the Tank raid. It's on track to take 30x longer for only 2x the rewards?
Exactly not worth it
I have an idea for the devs for "Easy" TTD raid:
Quadruple the health in each phase for the enemies. Make them hit only with 75% strength of "Normal" raid. Advertise it as 5*, 78+ lvl with glvl of VI.
Rewards should be around the same level as in Rancor T4 raid, because this is easy.
There, perfectly balanced new easy raid for all to enjoy!
Screw that, it's not the end of the discussion. I have 30+ 7* G9/10 toons and T6 is dragging on for ever.
Do I have to shop around for another guild? Is that what they want?
I understand that we are not 85 yet ... so give us something we can finish in a reasonable amount of time at lvl 82.
What do people expect to happen when we hit 85? Levels don't mean much, except allowing you to add gear. Except in this case, the gear we need is gated behind this ridiculous raid. So if you can't finish it now, you won't be able to finish it then.
There are a lot of things wrong with the balance between normal and heroic. Let's use Heroic as the baseline and assume it is balanced correctly:
In no way should normal have 4-5x the hp as Heroic.
In no way should guilds that can beat Heroic in less than 4 hours need a refresh to beat normal.
Mechanics in normal should not be the same as the mechanics in heroic. In most games mechanics are added to higher difficulty levels.
For instance, the top canon on the AAT should not insta-kill unbuffed toons in normal, that should be a heroic-only mechanic.
Also, Gen Grievous should need twice the number of attacks (or at least 1.5x) to reset his cd in normal than in heroic
If heroic is balanced around 5* mods, then normal should be balanced around 3 or 4* mods. To me this is a killer and like hp, a real destroyer of balance between normal and heroic.
Finally, as we begin to see more and more reports of the rewards for normal, those need to be adjusted up. There is no excuse for that with the current balance of the raid.
You can now be a whale and still massively lose out because you are not in the right guild. If people are spending large amounts of money it should be predominantly a single player game
That is at the heart of the problem for any spender that plays with friends and/or family no matter if they are f2p or p2p. In my guild I could solo T7 rancor. I contributed at 24-40% when we started T7 and I have been sitting myself below rank 10 to let others progress quicker for a long time now. I go full out on AAT normal and today I will reach 20 Million damage when the second rank in the raid is at 5M and most of the guild around 1M. But we are still in P2. So for people like myself the situation is simple. Either accept to be in a frozen state and excluded from progressing in the new content I do pay for. Behave like a **** and leave my friends and guild I played with since guild release day to join a bunch of mercs in order to access more content. Or simply stop spending for a while and stop playing altogether if content design do not take a more friendly direction. Blizzard has been sitting for more than 10 years in the mmo leader sit and this is greatly because they realised the importance of developing content accessible by most. CG are taking the opposite path on mobile game platform, taking money from everyone to deliver content for the few and expect to succeed?
There are a lot of things wrong with the balance between normal and heroic. Let's use Heroic as the baseline and assume it is balanced correctly:
In no way should normal have 4-5x the hp as Heroic.
In no way should guilds that can beat Heroic in less than 4 hours need a refresh to beat normal.
Mechanics in normal should not be the same as the mechanics in heroic. In most games mechanics are added to higher difficulty levels.
For instance, the top canon on the AAT should not insta-kill unbuffed toons in normal, that should be a heroic-only mechanic.
Also, Gen Grievous should need twice the number of attacks (or at least 1.5x) to reset his cd in normal than in heroic
If heroic is balanced around 5* mods, then normal should be balanced around 3 or 4* mods. To me this is a killer and like hp, a real destroyer of balance between normal and heroic.
Finally, as we begin to see more and more reports of the rewards for normal, those need to be adjusted up. There is no excuse for that with the current balance of the raid.
Excellent points here. I do not believe the Normal raid was tested even once.
You can now be a whale and still massively lose out because you are not in the right guild. If people are spending large amounts of money it should be predominantly a single player game
That is at the heart of the problem for any spender that plays with friends and/or family no matter if they are f2p or p2p. In my guild I could solo T7 rancor. I contributed at 24-40% when we started T7 and I have been sitting myself below rank 10 to let others progress quicker for a long time now. I go full out on AAT normal and today I will reach 20 Million damage when the second rank in the raid is at 5M and most of the guild around 1M. But we are still in P2. So for people like myself the situation is simple. Either accept to be in a frozen state and excluded from progressing in the new content I do pay for. Behave like a **** and leave my friends and guild I played with since guild release day to join a bunch of mercs in order to access more content. Or simply stop spending for a while and stop playing altogether if content design do not take a more friendly direction. Blizzard has been sitting for more than 10 years in the mmo leader sit and this is greatly because they realised the importance of developing content accessible by most. CG are taking the opposite path on mobile game platform, taking money from everyone to deliver content for the few and expect to succeed?
This, exactly.
I'm sitting at a really terrible spot right now, where I'm either locked to my current state, or I abandon the people I've played with since Guilds were released (including RL friends that don't live near me anymore, that I enjoy playing with). So either I intentionally hamstring myself or be a ****.
Seriously, CG, tell me what you think I should do, between those options. I'm really interested in hearing it.
my suggestion....rancor came was tough...mods dropped it became easy....aat comes its tough...ships come and are the mods of the new raid and it becomes easy...
my suggestion....rancor came was tough...mods dropped it became easy....aat comes its tough...ships come and are the mods of the new raid and it becomes easy...
<drops mic>
Except if you watch the dev interviews, ships are going to be their own game mode. People keep saying ships and level 85, but neither of those makes sense. Maybe, maybe they will introduce the upgraded abilities that they hinted at and that will make it less of a grind.
my suggestion....rancor came was tough...mods dropped it became easy....aat comes its tough...ships come and are the mods of the new raid and it becomes easy...
<drops mic>
Except if you watch the dev interviews, ships are going to be their own game mode. People keep saying ships and level 85, but neither of those makes sense. Maybe, maybe they will introduce the upgraded abilities that they hinted at and that will make it less of a grind.
@Maegor I hope so...it is ridiculous at this point...I am hoping they are there own game mode but help out in things like raids...maybe the devs hinted at it with the airstrike in p4 of the aat raid...I dont necessarily think ships or level 85 is the answer...
What i think is truly the answer is tweaking the raid to be more doable but not soloable...I just think the devs will give it another week or so so that upper 0.01% guilds can get there kenobi shard head start
Replies
Used to it? Pfft, in a month my guild won't even have finished it, let alone got used to it. Assuming there's anybody left in my guild by then.
I wonder if this is the point? The Rancor raid basically encouraged stronger players to go off and form their own little guilds where they could get #1 all the time.
This does the opposite and encourages consolidation into guilds of stronger players to beat heroic. I'm glad I stuck with my group now though.
Part of the problem is shock I think. First raid was hard bc we only had the preview info. Second raid was significantly easier.
I'm hoping this won't be like the mod fiasco where CG over reacted to players initial reactions and basically ruined it.
I would agree that a T5 might be a good thing though. Something similar in difficulty to Heroic rancor bc I think guilds are annoyed when they have currency they can't use. Maybe even a lower difficulty so guilds could use the currency.
Very true man i agree
Yes not this hard man where we attack with the same team over and over again maybe 1 or twice but not like 4 or 5 times man
Exactly not worth it
I have an idea for the devs for "Easy" TTD raid:
Quadruple the health in each phase for the enemies. Make them hit only with 75% strength of "Normal" raid. Advertise it as 5*, 78+ lvl with glvl of VI.
Rewards should be around the same level as in Rancor T4 raid, because this is easy.
There, perfectly balanced new easy raid for all to enjoy!
What do people expect to happen when we hit 85? Levels don't mean much, except allowing you to add gear. Except in this case, the gear we need is gated behind this ridiculous raid. So if you can't finish it now, you won't be able to finish it then.
Finally, as we begin to see more and more reports of the rewards for normal, those need to be adjusted up. There is no excuse for that with the current balance of the raid.
That is at the heart of the problem for any spender that plays with friends and/or family no matter if they are f2p or p2p. In my guild I could solo T7 rancor. I contributed at 24-40% when we started T7 and I have been sitting myself below rank 10 to let others progress quicker for a long time now. I go full out on AAT normal and today I will reach 20 Million damage when the second rank in the raid is at 5M and most of the guild around 1M. But we are still in P2. So for people like myself the situation is simple. Either accept to be in a frozen state and excluded from progressing in the new content I do pay for. Behave like a **** and leave my friends and guild I played with since guild release day to join a bunch of mercs in order to access more content. Or simply stop spending for a while and stop playing altogether if content design do not take a more friendly direction. Blizzard has been sitting for more than 10 years in the mmo leader sit and this is greatly because they realised the importance of developing content accessible by most. CG are taking the opposite path on mobile game platform, taking money from everyone to deliver content for the few and expect to succeed?
Excellent points here. I do not believe the Normal raid was tested even once.
This, exactly.
I'm sitting at a really terrible spot right now, where I'm either locked to my current state, or I abandon the people I've played with since Guilds were released (including RL friends that don't live near me anymore, that I enjoy playing with). So either I intentionally hamstring myself or be a ****.
Seriously, CG, tell me what you think I should do, between those options. I'm really interested in hearing it.
<drops mic>
Except if you watch the dev interviews, ships are going to be their own game mode. People keep saying ships and level 85, but neither of those makes sense. Maybe, maybe they will introduce the upgraded abilities that they hinted at and that will make it less of a grind.
@Maegor I hope so...it is ridiculous at this point...I am hoping they are there own game mode but help out in things like raids...maybe the devs hinted at it with the airstrike in p4 of the aat raid...I dont necessarily think ships or level 85 is the answer...
What i think is truly the answer is tweaking the raid to be more doable but not soloable...I just think the devs will give it another week or so so that upper 0.01% guilds can get there kenobi shard head start