Sure, judging your heroic readyness is more difficult, still: small price to pay for more rewards. You can do quite a few trail and error attempts on heroic and still do more normal raids in between than you could do before this difficulty adjustment.
I'm not blind to the negative effects of this adjustment, but the rewards outweight those effects by far (imo)
No you can't. If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic. Unless you can somehow accumulate 90k raid tickets a day, you are foregoing a normal raid (and its rewards) every time you take a run at heroic to see where you are.
Sure, judging your heroic readyness is more difficult, still: small price to pay for more rewards. You can do quite a few trail and error attempts on heroic and still do more normal raids in between than you could do before this difficulty adjustment.
I'm not blind to the negative effects of this adjustment, but the rewards outweight those effects by far (imo)
If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic.
I went ahead and did it. Instead of about .15% Phase Damage Per Day (PDPD) I was able too take out 1.25% PDPD on auto battle so with direct engagment it would be about 1.5% PDPD
So too answer your question. Well worth it if your sitting in the same place we were battling T4 going T5
I will restate this as loud and clear as I can. It is worth it!!!
At the amounts of damage from .15 PDPD too 1.50 PDPD it cuts time by 90%
Sure, judging your heroic readyness is more difficult, still: small price to pay for more rewards. You can do quite a few trail and error attempts on heroic and still do more normal raids in between than you could do before this difficulty adjustment.
I'm not blind to the negative effects of this adjustment, but the rewards outweight those effects by far (imo)
If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic.
there's the metric people needed
That's not even right though. It's more like 2 hours. Seriously. Being able to do it in a day could still mean you stall out in either p2 or p3.
Sure, judging your heroic readyness is more difficult, still: small price to pay for more rewards. You can do quite a few trail and error attempts on heroic and still do more normal raids in between than you could do before this difficulty adjustment.
I'm not blind to the negative effects of this adjustment, but the rewards outweight those effects by far (imo)
No you can't. If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic. Unless you can somehow accumulate 90k raid tickets a day, you are foregoing a normal raid (and its rewards) every time you take a run at heroic to see where you are.
you missed the point. No guild does normal in 3 days (90k possible / 80k costs), if they could they would do heroic. Thus every guild (doing normal) loses tickets due to the ticket cap. Those not lost tickets, because guilds will no longer be capped out, can be used to try heroic every now and/or still do just as much or more normal raids. The longer it took a guild to complete a normal raid, the more they benefit from this. If a guild was really close to heroic (not alot of refreshes in normal), this change doesn't benefit them that much, but they are close to heroic anyway so i don't feel that bad for them.
Sure, judging your heroic readyness is more difficult, still: small price to pay for more rewards. You can do quite a few trail and error attempts on heroic and still do more normal raids in between than you could do before this difficulty adjustment.
I'm not blind to the negative effects of this adjustment, but the rewards outweight those effects by far (imo)
If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic.
there's the metric people needed
No. Still not a sufficient metric. We finished in 8.5 hours last night. Stalled out in p2 of heroic.
Yeah there is definitely no yardstick. If Everyone attacked the new normal at the same time it would take approx 20mins using around 20-25 players, literally just the time for doing the 4 phases. If it got gang banged then likely even less that that. We aren't ready for heroic. There is definitely no gauge other than, if it takes you over a reset, you literally have no hope whatsoever at heroic.
Sure, judging your heroic readyness is more difficult, still: small price to pay for more rewards. You can do quite a few trail and error attempts on heroic and still do more normal raids in between than you could do before this difficulty adjustment.
I'm not blind to the negative effects of this adjustment, but the rewards outweight those effects by far (imo)
No you can't. If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic. Unless you can somehow accumulate 90k raid tickets a day, you are foregoing a normal raid (and its rewards) every time you take a run at heroic to see where you are.
Again, small price to pay for allowing 80% of the guilds to finish this normal raid in a reasonable time versus more than month before.
For example, I'm part of a reasonable guild with more than half the members at level 80 or above and we can finish heroic rancor in less than a hour. But the normal AAT pre-nerf was taking us more than a month to finish. This was probably the situation a majority of the guilds were in. Now with the changes we can probably finish this normal AAT in about a week. This is a good transition point between heroic rancor and heroic AAT.
Your guild is probably in the top 5-10%. These changes are helping the other 80-90% of guilds.
Way too easy. Our guild was doing normal raids in about 4 days. We just got to P3 before our first refresh. The imbalance is going to force officers to ration attacks to keep it fair.
Sure, judging your heroic readyness is more difficult, still: small price to pay for more rewards. You can do quite a few trail and error attempts on heroic and still do more normal raids in between than you could do before this difficulty adjustment.
I'm not blind to the negative effects of this adjustment, but the rewards outweight those effects by far (imo)
If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic.
there's the metric people needed
Except it's not a true metric. Our guild tried and failed heroic this week. We had 33 players clear normal last night in about 6 hours.
Sure, judging your heroic readyness is more difficult, still: small price to pay for more rewards. You can do quite a few trail and error attempts on heroic and still do more normal raids in between than you could do before this difficulty adjustment.
I'm not blind to the negative effects of this adjustment, but the rewards outweight those effects by far (imo)
If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic.
there's the metric people needed
Except it's not a true metric. Our guild tried and failed heroic this week. We had 33 players clear normal last night in about 6 hours.
maybe it will be 2 attacks each instead of 5 and you're ready for heroic or something like that. I honestly don't see the problem with getting rewards as soon as you hit 80k tickets, instead of capping out but have a semi good gauge to measure heroic readyness.
Sure, judging your heroic readyness is more difficult, still: small price to pay for more rewards. You can do quite a few trail and error attempts on heroic and still do more normal raids in between than you could do before this difficulty adjustment.
I'm not blind to the negative effects of this adjustment, but the rewards outweight those effects by far (imo)
If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic.
there's the metric people needed
Except it's not a true metric. Our guild tried and failed heroic this week. We had 33 players clear normal last night in about 6 hours.
maybe it will be 2 attacks each instead of 5 and you're ready for heroic or something like that. I honestly don't see the problem with getting rewards as soon as you hit 80k tickets, instead of capping out but have a semi good gauge to measure heroic readyness.
The problem is having the only options be easy or nightmare mode. There needs to be an intermediate tier (i.e., what normal was 24 hours ago).
I think it is great! Most of our guild members just stopped doing the raid. Now we are getting people back into it (for now) and can actually finish it again.
Seems like the only people complaining are the top 5-10% of guilds who are already close to doing heroic AAT. The rest of us normal guilds are happy with the changes. We are the 90%! Occupy together!
I'd like to see the turn meter on the main cannon reset for each new team. It's annoying to see your team get blow away before you get a chance to take a turn.
All phases got their hp reduced by half I think. 500k in phase 1 is about 4-5% and 2.1m in phase 2 is about 10%.
Can anyone else confirm health percentages in the other phases? My guild has 60% left on phase 3 after 56 days, and they are worried about losing 2 months worth of work if we restart. If hp is only reduced by half, and we are already past the halfway point in the raid, does it make more sense to slog through the next month and finish?
It's not just health. They nerfed everything about normal (health, damage, speed stats, etc...). Restart.
Sure, judging your heroic readyness is more difficult, still: small price to pay for more rewards. You can do quite a few trail and error attempts on heroic and still do more normal raids in between than you could do before this difficulty adjustment.
I'm not blind to the negative effects of this adjustment, but the rewards outweight those effects by far (imo)
If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic.
there's the metric people needed
Except it's not a true metric. Our guild tried and failed heroic this week. We had 33 players clear normal last night in about 6 hours.
a real metric in heroic (having done 4 myself) how many teams your guild has for each phase
p2 requires maxed droids and jawas: 47 88 86 je nebit g11 5* mods mostly potency protection primary w/speed secondary. at least you want 50 doing 2% which is 384k
those side cannons are fast. also bigss assist wont take them down either.
p1 4.3M so 15 jedi teams that can do 4% 15 teams 2%
p2 19.2M so 20 maxed droid teams that can 2 at least 4% the rest can be droid teams that can get to 1-4%
p3 12M - chirpaltine go for at least 400k so 4% so at least 20 chirpaltine teams is enough
p4 12M - rebels can do 500k so 25 rebel teams
My guild is fine with this change. We were able to finish it before usually within an hour after the 3rd refresh. Did a full one last night in about 4 hours. We're very close to heroic. Trying a heroic next. Even if we fail, we are easily implementing some damage mitigation into the tank raid, we do it already for rancor.
Allowing other guilds to progress is more important. Happy players make for a happy game, better game economy, happy devs, more stuff.
Biggest complaint about new difficulty is practicing Chirpatine in P3. Palp will often kill the adds on a crit. I haven't tried with an unmodded palp yet, but it seems odd needing to take off mods to practice a tactic. C'est la vie
The measuring stick would be this:
Beat normal before refresh - you're guild is in the ready Zone
Next normal make everyone practice the strat used for heroic. 1 run for each phase, jedi, rebels, chirpatine, jawas. Still beat it before refresh? Ready up. Takes a refresh? Some of your members still arent putting in enough.
I think the changes were a bit more than they needed to be, but not by that much. There will be a gap now where people have to hold back on the normal AAT for a while before they are ready for heroic, but with the added rewards from not wasting tickets it shouldn't take too long to cross that gap and be ready for heroic. And once you can do a heroic without a refresh the only difference between taking two days and two hours is having all your players online at the same time, so holding back is going to be happening on heroics pretty quick anyways. Now you just get practice at it on the normal.
The measuring stick would be this:
Beat normal before refresh - you're guild is in the ready Zone
Next normal make everyone practice the strat used for heroic. 1 run for each phase, jedi, rebels, chirpatine, jawas. Still beat it before refresh? Ready up. Takes a refresh? Some of your members still arent putting in enough.
i like this, simulates heroic and also limits damage too easy if you use five teams in p1. not really gonna happen in heroic, our guild does just fine in p1, p2 is the stuck point and when we bring in mercs (alsodont have 50 members)
Toppled the tank 9x in phase 2. Did 14% w/ 1 team. They went overboard w/ the nerf bat.
Gonna have to do a 0 score board day now like we do w/ Rancor.
guilds that were still stuck in the first fase probably don't think they went "overboard". I agree that damage control isn't much fun, but i'm happy with rewards every 3 days instead of 5/6 days.
Animation speed is awesome btw, very pleased about that.
They should've just added an "easy" tier instead of this.
This. Normal did need a slight nerf just because as soon as you fiiished it fast enough to start running out of tickets you were ready for heroic, which is dumb. But now guilds will have no way to judge if they are ready for heroic.
Glad that some of you guys are finally now able to complete it and get rewards, but this was too big of a nerf.
+18 quadrillion
Our normal just went from 4 refreshes to 8.5 hours. We have to institute raid rules for normal tank.
full disagree
more rewards > having to do dmg controll
you're close to heroic with just 4 refreshes, damage controll is inevitable in heroic eventually anyway. Small price to pay for more rewards.
We tried heroic this past weekend. Stalled out in P2. So we needed more work. We now have no way of gauging when we've done that work, other than blowing tickets on heroic.
This rework should've been an easy tier, not the new normal tier. And it's not really more rewards. You still can't run more than 5 every two weeks, because you can only get so many tickets. So there's no difference between doing a 3-refresh normal and a 3 hour normal.
Agreed with this, and we just had the exact same outcome on our Heroic Tank raid this week. I kicked off the new standard tank raid last night and woke up to it being completed before 6AM today. The new mechanics + a minor health decrease at most was all that was needed for the Standard. What they gave us should be the easy.
So now we are faced with putting rules around a standard tank raid. That's no fun for anyone.
Replies
No you can't. If you can't do the new normal without a refresh, you are incapable of heroic. Unless you can somehow accumulate 90k raid tickets a day, you are foregoing a normal raid (and its rewards) every time you take a run at heroic to see where you are.
there's the metric people needed
Excellent, exactly what I wanted to hear. Thank you!
I will restate this as loud and clear as I can. It is worth it!!!
At the amounts of damage from .15 PDPD too 1.50 PDPD it cuts time by 90%
That's not even right though. It's more like 2 hours. Seriously. Being able to do it in a day could still mean you stall out in either p2 or p3.
you missed the point. No guild does normal in 3 days (90k possible / 80k costs), if they could they would do heroic. Thus every guild (doing normal) loses tickets due to the ticket cap. Those not lost tickets, because guilds will no longer be capped out, can be used to try heroic every now and/or still do just as much or more normal raids. The longer it took a guild to complete a normal raid, the more they benefit from this. If a guild was really close to heroic (not alot of refreshes in normal), this change doesn't benefit them that much, but they are close to heroic anyway so i don't feel that bad for them.
No. Still not a sufficient metric. We finished in 8.5 hours last night. Stalled out in p2 of heroic.
Again, small price to pay for allowing 80% of the guilds to finish this normal raid in a reasonable time versus more than month before.
For example, I'm part of a reasonable guild with more than half the members at level 80 or above and we can finish heroic rancor in less than a hour. But the normal AAT pre-nerf was taking us more than a month to finish. This was probably the situation a majority of the guilds were in. Now with the changes we can probably finish this normal AAT in about a week. This is a good transition point between heroic rancor and heroic AAT.
Your guild is probably in the top 5-10%. These changes are helping the other 80-90% of guilds.
Giving guilds the opportunity to realistically farm to prep for heroic.
You will be well prepared for heroic then.
Except it's not a true metric. Our guild tried and failed heroic this week. We had 33 players clear normal last night in about 6 hours.
maybe it will be 2 attacks each instead of 5 and you're ready for heroic or something like that. I honestly don't see the problem with getting rewards as soon as you hit 80k tickets, instead of capping out but have a semi good gauge to measure heroic readyness.
Make Zader Great Again!
The problem is having the only options be easy or nightmare mode. There needs to be an intermediate tier (i.e., what normal was 24 hours ago).
Yup. Plus GG and B2 tenacity in phases 1 and 3.
They gave normal AAT the Yoda treatment
Make Zader Great Again!
p2 requires maxed droids and jawas: 47 88 86 je nebit g11 5* mods mostly potency protection primary w/speed secondary. at least you want 50 doing 2% which is 384k
those side cannons are fast. also bigss assist wont take them down either.
p1 4.3M so 15 jedi teams that can do 4% 15 teams 2%
p2 19.2M so 20 maxed droid teams that can 2 at least 4% the rest can be droid teams that can get to 1-4%
p3 12M - chirpaltine go for at least 400k so 4% so at least 20 chirpaltine teams is enough
p4 12M - rebels can do 500k so 25 rebel teams
Allowing other guilds to progress is more important. Happy players make for a happy game, better game economy, happy devs, more stuff.
Biggest complaint about new difficulty is practicing Chirpatine in P3. Palp will often kill the adds on a crit. I haven't tried with an unmodded palp yet, but it seems odd needing to take off mods to practice a tactic. C'est la vie
Beat normal before refresh - you're guild is in the ready Zone
Next normal make everyone practice the strat used for heroic. 1 run for each phase, jedi, rebels, chirpatine, jawas. Still beat it before refresh? Ready up. Takes a refresh? Some of your members still arent putting in enough.
i like this, simulates heroic and also limits damage too easy if you use five teams in p1. not really gonna happen in heroic, our guild does just fine in p1, p2 is the stuck point and when we bring in mercs (alsodont have 50 members)
Agreed with this, and we just had the exact same outcome on our Heroic Tank raid this week. I kicked off the new standard tank raid last night and woke up to it being completed before 6AM today. The new mechanics + a minor health decrease at most was all that was needed for the Standard. What they gave us should be the easy.
So now we are faced with putting rules around a standard tank raid. That's no fun for anyone.
https://swgoh.gg/u/rwtdBurn/