Since they are going to nerf Dooku and Barriss anyway, we can give ideas on what we think is fair

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    I love seeing bariss in galaxy war, she allows me to heal up before the next match.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
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    ChaseKillz wrote: »
    Why is this cool?

    Because, again, this is the ONLY thing Barriss really does. And note as your screenshot shows, he wasn't actually healed, he just took health from other characters.
    You know how Barriss works, just work around it.
    Would it be "cool" that a basic attack from an easily-farmed character makes the lead character in a $50 pack useless?!
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
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    Qeltar wrote: »
    ChaseKillz wrote: »
    Why is this cool?

    Because, again, this is the ONLY thing Barriss really does. And note as your screenshot shows, he wasn't actually healed, he just took health from other characters.
    You know how Barriss works, just work around it.
    Would it be "cool" that a basic attack from an easily-farmed character makes the lead character in a $50 pack useless?!

    As far as I'm concerned anytime you gain health from an outside source or heal yourself, you are healed. Not starting a debate about this bro. I don't even care about Barriss , like darkness just stated, shes like a day off in the higher galactic war brackets. But I'm short manned today :(

    467-325-146
    Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
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    There are all sorts of things that don't strictly make sense in this game. (Today in GW I had a stunned opponent dodge attacks three times in a row. Neat trick.)
    This thing with Barriss is simply not a big problem IMO. This is her thing.. If you nerf this you just make Sidious stronger and everyone is already running him anyway.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
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    ^^^^ sounds good, makes sense.
    467-325-146
    Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
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    Barris MUST remain extremely powerful after whatever changes they have planned are.implemented.

    You cannot offer a power character for sale for £40 them change her into an average one once people have paid their money.
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    We can't stop it from coming, but if they nerf something they just sold to me, I'll never buy another thing in this game. He isn't even OP. Just ignore him in arena and you won't get countered. Kill him last. He's squishy. Too many whiners dictating things.

    Oh well, as I said, they nerf it, they lose any future money I would have spent.
  • Barrok
    1754 posts Member
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    Qeltar wrote: »
    ChaseKillz wrote: »
    Why is this cool?

    Because, again, this is the ONLY thing Barriss really does. And note as your screenshot shows, he wasn't actually healed, he just took health from other characters.
    You know how Barriss works, just work around it.
    Would it be "cool" that a basic attack from an easily-farmed character makes the lead character in a $50 pack useless?!

    So the only thing she does is has 'buggy healing' through an actual correct skill (healing immunity).

    That is why she is so popular. That doesn't mean she isn't OP. If a card in Magic the Gathering said "you win the game 90% of the time" and cost $200 dollars, that doesn't mean it's a card that should ever exist.

    Barriss is fine, her heal is incredible. But she shouldn't heal through healing immunity. It makes absolutely no sense. If she can heal through it, everyone should be able to heal through it. If others can't, then she shouldn't.

  • Barrok
    1754 posts Member
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    billbob19 wrote: »
    We can't stop it from coming, but if they nerf something they just sold to me, I'll never buy another thing in this game. He isn't even OP. Just ignore him in arena and you won't get countered. Kill him last. He's squishy. Too many whiners dictating things.

    Oh well, as I said, they nerf it, they lose any future money I would have spent.

    Threatening them with your 5 dollar purchase :) And that's more valuable than balance in the game? Geez.

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    Barrok wrote: »
    billbob19 wrote: »
    We can't stop it from coming, but if they nerf something they just sold to me, I'll never buy another thing in this game. He isn't even OP. Just ignore him in arena and you won't get countered. Kill him last. He's squishy. Too many whiners dictating things.

    Oh well, as I said, they nerf it, they lose any future money I would have spent.

    Threatening them with your 5 dollar purchase :) And that's more valuable than balance in the game? Geez.

    It's funny that you are being sarcastic, yet you fail to see how these things work. Or even comprehend what I said. "Future money" I quoted it so that you can more easily separate it from other words and then spend time processing its meaning. The first purchase is always a taste. Do I feel I got good return from my small investment. If the answer is yes, the next time something comes up that I like, I'll spend again, and again, and again. That's how these things work. It isn't about money spent, but losing money that WOULD HAVE been spent.

    As for balancing the game. What are you talking about? Listen to some of the guys that have been playing before global launch. Some don't even use Dooku. He isn't OP. It's that whiners want everything to be easy. They don't want to have to learn not to attack Dooku. You leave him for last or until other damage dealers are gone. Mind blowing revelation, right? It also sets a horrible precedent. Here buy this, okay, now some people are complaining because they don't like to have to try, so we will nerf that character you just payed money for. By the way, Barriss is not five dollars.

    If the game is going to start nerfing to sooth the complainers this early, it sets a bad precedent in my mind. Barriss and Dooku are fine as they are. In later updates they can help "balance" things by creating counters to them. As is, people are complaining about purchased characters being better than their free tutorial characters. What the hell did they expect?
  • Time
    293 posts Member
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    Since most people on my server have the same few chars it's hard to tell what's truly op and what can be countered by heros no one using. That being said obi wan is the hero i dread the most. When hes combined with chewie and bariss i often timeout. There are a few others like boba who is annoying and i think fighter pilot or resistance pilot took off half my life on first shot. A lot of heros have synergies that barely anyone has access to that will make bariss/dooku a nonfactor. Fixing them is encouraged but i really hope changes arent made to accommodate the kleenex crew. For the record i dont have bariss or dooku and i would only use dooku to counter jedis if i did. I'd also consider not using bariss on my team for the same reason i dont use chewy; they do no damage. My main character complaint would be for ventriss, her dispel ability is basicly only useful vs chewy because of the bug. As a side note it seems to heal whole party which is not in the description. Also this ability is completely useless if obi wan is on other team since ventress moves like molasses and gets ability blocked.
    I've also noticed on old dakas attack that the secondary stun procs less then 40% and seems to get resisted more then other abilities.
  • Qeltar
    4326 posts Member
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    Barrok wrote: »
    So the only thing she does is has 'buggy healing' through an actual correct skill (healing immunity).

    The skill has two parts:
    1. All allies have their current Health percentages equalized.
    2. Then, each ally recovers X% of their Max Health.
    Part 2 is a heal and does not work when healing immunity is active. Part 1 is not a heal, just shifting of points between characters.
    And yes, that is really the only thing she brings to the table and it should not be touched.
    Quit 7/14/16. Best of luck to all of you.
  • Slushie
    425 posts Member
    edited December 2015
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    @NachoFoot wrote: »
    Slushie wrote: »
    @NachoFoot wrote: »
    Don't act so crass. There are counters to healing debuff. One of the more ingenious methods was a dual taunt to rotate targets.

    You can't have one defense to rule them all. That's why the Dooku Barris combo is getting a much needed nerf.

    You continue your unbroken record of saying things that make no sense to me at all.

    I'm not talking about the Barriss/Dooku combo here, I'm talking about one aspect of Barriss' heal ability.

    Also, please share this "dual taunt" set up you speak of to counter healing immunity. While you're at it, let us know what the other counters you have for healing immunity as well. Since you know, according to you there's so many of them already.

    Your personal attacks have no meaning like your posts. You really want someone to tell you how to play the game?

    Yes, that "one" aspect is too overpowered. You want Barris to heal through immunity. What the hell are you gonna do with Sid's special since it's useless?

    Barris can already mass heal everyone back to full. No other healer can do that. She doesn't hit hard but has massive health to compensate. You know this already if you would've read the OP's post...

    I know how to play the game thanks. That's why I'm not constantly complaining about how OP Dooku and Barriss are because I know how to beat them.

    "Barris can already mass heal everyone back to full. No other healer can do that."
    That's exactly the point I'm making here. No other healer can do that. She has massive health yes, but if she can't heal (because of heal immunity) or do damage, then why is she even in the game? She's just a useless punching bag at that point.

    Just because Barriss can PARTIALLY heal through healing immunity, does not make Sidious useless. It still stops every other healer from doing any form of healing.

    The issue isn't Barriss' heal mechanic, it's her high amount of HP that allows her heal to be so big. So like I've said before, either reduce her overall HP or the health % amount that gets equalised, but don't change the mechanic of how her heal works,

    As for dual taunts counter, there's only 4 characters that can currently can guarantee a taunt: Chewie, Stormtrooper Han, Stormtrooper, and Hoth Rebel.

    Out of those 4 I can realistically see two making it into a regular PvP team. Chewie and Han. How many people out there do you see running a PvP team with both those characters? Just for the specific reason of "I need two taunts to counter Sid's healing immunity".

    Still waiting on those other counters to healing immunity you know so much about.
    And please don't say "dispell negative effects" skills. No one is bringing Ackbar or Lobot to PvP fights just to dispell healing immunity.
  • Options
    Lobot dosen't dispel healing immunity anyway :* . Reported in bugs.

    It's possible that no one can dispel it? I don't have any other dispelling characters leveled up currently.

    Even more reason to leave Barriss in peace.
  • NachoFoot
    63 posts Member
    edited December 2015
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    "Slushie wrote:
    Still waiting on those other counters to healing immunity you know so much about.
    And please don't say "dispell negative effects" skills. No one is bringing Ackbar or Lobot to PvP fights just to dispell healing immunity.

    If you use a dual taunt team, you can easily defeat Sidious. Yes, Chewie + Han works well. Pvp AI alternates taunts and will also taunt if the other tank gets low on health. Since Sidious heal immunity is a single attack, you have to burn through two tanks to get to the healer.

    I ran into this team from two separate players so it does get used quite a bit.
  • J7000
    2059 posts Member
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    I think the OP nailed it.
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    Dooku is a good character w/ no D. He ain't kicking that much butt. & y r we complaining abt this character? where is Yoda?
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    Barrok wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    ChaseKillz wrote: »
    Why is this cool?

    Because, again, this is the ONLY thing Barriss really does. And note as your screenshot shows, he wasn't actually healed, he just took health from other characters.
    You know how Barriss works, just work around it.
    Would it be "cool" that a basic attack from an easily-farmed character makes the lead character in a $50 pack useless?!

    So the only thing she does is has 'buggy healing' through an actual correct skill (healing immunity).

    That is why she is so popular. That doesn't mean she isn't OP. If a card in Magic the Gathering said "you win the game 90% of the time" and cost $200 dollars, that doesn't mean it's a card that should ever exist.

    Barriss is fine, her heal is incredible. But she shouldn't heal through healing immunity. It makes absolutely no sense. If she can heal through it, everyone should be able to heal through it. If others can't, then she shouldn't.

    Thank the gods you're not a dev.

    I find your arguments flawed and I wish to unsubscribe to your newsletter.
  • J7000
    2059 posts Member
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    Went up against a team with Daka, Dooku, and other stunny ****. Wow. lol
  • Slushie
    425 posts Member
    edited December 2015
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    @NachoFoot wrote: »
    "Slushie wrote:
    Still waiting on those other counters to healing immunity you know so much about.
    And please don't say "dispell negative effects" skills. No one is bringing Ackbar or Lobot to PvP fights just to dispell healing immunity.

    If you use a dual taunt team, you can easily defeat Sidious. Yes, Chewie + Han works well. Pvp AI alternates taunts and will also taunt if the other tank gets low on health. Since Sidious heal immunity is a single attack, you have to burn through two tanks to get to the healer.

    I ran into this team from two separate players so it does get used quite a bit.

    Ok I can accept the fact that you've seen teams with Chewie + Han in PvP.
    Just out of curiosity, what level are you right now?
    Genuine question, because I'm assuming you're talking about in the 35-55 level range, as I've never seen anyone use more than one character with the ability to taunt (Chewie) at level 60.

    Not only that, but alternating taunts isn't a true counter to healing immunity because at the end of the day, both tanks will still have the heal immunity debuff on them and the heal debuff from Sid at skill level 5 lasts for 3 turns. This means that both tanks are taking damage due to taunt but can't be healed for at least 2-3 turns by anyone unless it's Barriss.

    So how else can you counter healing immunity?
  • Barrok
    1754 posts Member
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    Trilbo wrote: »
    Barrok wrote: »
    Qeltar wrote: »
    ChaseKillz wrote: »
    Why is this cool?

    Because, again, this is the ONLY thing Barriss really does. And note as your screenshot shows, he wasn't actually healed, he just took health from other characters.
    You know how Barriss works, just work around it.
    Would it be "cool" that a basic attack from an easily-farmed character makes the lead character in a $50 pack useless?!

    So the only thing she does is has 'buggy healing' through an actual correct skill (healing immunity).

    That is why she is so popular. That doesn't mean she isn't OP. If a card in Magic the Gathering said "you win the game 90% of the time" and cost $200 dollars, that doesn't mean it's a card that should ever exist.

    Barriss is fine, her heal is incredible. But she shouldn't heal through healing immunity. It makes absolutely no sense. If she can heal through it, everyone should be able to heal through it. If others can't, then she shouldn't.

    Thank the gods you're not a dev.

    I find your arguments flawed and I wish to unsubscribe to your newsletter.

    Lol, not sure what this trolling post even means. Obviously you are against balance changes. I am guessing everyone who is against balance changes for her bought her. Which makes sense, you want to defend your purchase but that also makes you inherently biased.

    That's one of the main problems with pay2win. People invest money and care more about what they spent it on, than the actual balance. Different game, same problem.


  • Options
    I think the general issue with your posts is that they aren't well thought out. You see one path to a resolution that suits you, ignoring any other opinion. There are several issues with nerfing the characters under discussion so early on. Mainly that they are not OP. People are simply comparing their tutorial characters with purchased characters and there should be a difference between the two.
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    "heal immunity debuff on them and the heal debuff from Sid at skill level 5 lasts for 3 turns."

    this helped me understand maybe you guys looked over it. Or don't have Sid at this point yet.
    467-325-146
    Pretty good collection of characters so far and GROWING
  • Options
    Dooku and Barriss are fine as is. PvP is not the only aspect of the game.
    If you can't beat a D/B team, even a few levels higher, you have a flawed strategy for attacking that team or you're too weak.
    The only acceptable nerf to either of these characters would be Dooku bonus on counters, but even that isn't really that big of a deal.
    If these characters are nerfed, the next round of complaining will be Sid and Maul, then Lando and Bob. It'll keep going until the Ugs detonator is op and people start complaining.
    It's a strategy game. Think.
    Please Devs, don't let whiny pvp egos ruin two great characters for everyone else. It'll just be the first few pebbles of an avalanche of op/nerf complaints.
    "That is why you fail."
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    I'm getting confused as to who's responding to who now because people aren't quoting posts :p
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    @Barrok wrote: »

    That's one of the main problems with pay2win. People invest money and care more about what they spent it on, than the actual balance. Different game, same problem.

    For the record I'm defending Barriss and I didn't buy the character pack. I don't even use her in any of my teams, so my motivation isn't to "protect" the money I spent, or to try and keep my "OP" team.

    I'm just trying to provide a different viewpoint to the people who are calling for nerfs because they can't deal with one or 2 characters.
  • Barrok
    1754 posts Member
    edited December 2015
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    Slushie wrote: »
    @Barrok wrote: »

    That's one of the main problems with pay2win. People invest money and care more about what they spent it on, than the actual balance. Different game, same problem.

    For the record I'm defending Barriss and I didn't buy the character pack. I don't even use her in any of my teams, so my motivation isn't to "protect" the money I spent, or to try and keep my "OP" team.

    I'm just trying to provide a different viewpoint to the people who are calling for nerfs because they can't deal with one or 2 characters.

    The only way to solve if she is OP or not, is statistics. How many of the top matches play with her. How many are in the top 10. When you can select them as an ally, how many non-Barris owning players select her.

    I am speculating, if your server is anything like mine, that she is in at least 95% of the top decks (top 10ish).

    I am also speculating that she is selected more than anyone else as an ally for people who do not own her. Obviously you would never select her if you have her.

    If Dooku and Barriss are played at a rate much much higher than other characters, and their terms perform better, then it's obvious they are top tier and possibly OP.

    I have Dooku, and don't have Barriss. I think Dooku is busted and mines only 4*. Barriss I don't own but I select everytime I can. Maybe I am in the minority, but I don't believe so.

    The other aspect to think about is how good is she during each phase of the game. Is she too good for the early stages, mid game, or late game? It's possible that the people who are upset with her might be in the early-mid game, but late game she just isn't much of anything.

  • Options
    50 out of 50 of my last arena matches have had Barriss on the opposition. That said, I've won 47 of those 50 without a Barriss. All 3 of those losses were due to Barriss healing Dooku multiple times while he was in red health each time. I don't think she's overpowered, but I do agree with those who argue the health-balance heal working through healing immunity is a bug rather than a feature. That's the only thing about her I think should change.

    That said, I've complained about Barriss quite a bit in the past. This is because she is in every. single. team. It's just annoying to play in a meta this dominated by a single character. I'm sure there are other characters that would be on every team were they available as guaranteed-buys, but they aren't. I think the guaranteed character packs were a mistake, but it's too late now. Fix (or "nerf" depending on which side of that argument you're on) the healing through healing immunity and I'll be happy.
  • Slushie
    425 posts Member
    edited December 2015
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    @Barrok wrote: »

    The only way to solve if she is OP or not, is statistics. How many of the top matches play with her. How many are in the top 10. When you can select them as an ally, how many non-Barris owning players select her.

    I am speculating, if your server is anything like mine, that she is in at least 95% of the top decks (top 10ish).

    I am also speculating that she is selected more than anyone else as an ally for people who do not own her. Obviously you would never select her if you have her.

    If Dooku and Barriss are played at a rate much much higher than other characters, and their terms perform better, then it's obvious they are top tier and possibly OP.

    I have Dooku, and don't have Barriss. I think Dooku is busted and mines only 4*. Barriss I don't own but I select everytime I can. Maybe I am in the minority, but I don't believe so.

    The thing is, current stats will be highly skewed towards Barriss and Dooku being in use by a lot of players right now because they were made available in paid packs immediately.

    Characters like Old Ben, Cad Bane, and Lando for example are all examples of characters being more powerful than Barriss or Dooku. But they're not going to show up very often in the majority of teams because they're still fairly rare and difficult to unlock (unless you spend a lot of money).

    We're only 2/3 weeks in since the game launched globally so of course it's going to seem like those 2 characters are everywhere, because they are. Until we give the game enough time for more people to start unlocking other powerful characters we won't have a real representation of character power balance.

    I think EA made a huge mistake offering those two characters for sale immediately upon launch, and these discussions are exactly the reason why.

    Edit: Forgot to add that I'm fine with Dooku 100% counter chance, but I think him getting so many additional attacks as a result of a single counter is a bug that needs to be fixed.
  • Options
    Barrok wrote: »
    Slushie wrote: »
    @Barrok wrote: »

    That's one of the main problems with pay2win. People invest money and care more about what they spent it on, than the actual balance. Different game, same problem.

    For the record I'm defending Barriss and I didn't buy the character pack. I don't even use her in any of my teams, so my motivation isn't to "protect" the money I spent, or to try and keep my "OP" team.

    I'm just trying to provide a different viewpoint to the people who are calling for nerfs because they can't deal with one or 2 characters.

    The only way to solve if she is OP or not, is statistics. How many of the top matches play with her. How many are in the top 10. When you can select them as an ally, how many non-Barris owning players select her.

    I am speculating, if your server is anything like mine, that she is in at least 95% of the top decks (top 10ish).

    I am also speculating that she is selected more than anyone else as an ally for people who do not own her. Obviously you would never select her if you have her.

    If Dooku and Barriss are played at a rate much much higher than other characters, and their terms perform better, then it's obvious they are top tier and possibly OP.

    I have Dooku, and don't have Barriss. I think Dooku is busted and mines only 4*. Barriss I don't own but I select everytime I can. Maybe I am in the minority, but I don't believe so.

    The other aspect to think about is how good is she during each phase of the game. Is she too good for the early stages, mid game, or late game? It's possible that the people who are upset with her might be in the early-mid game, but late game she just isn't much of anything.

    Correlation =/= causation, and all that jazz.

    Before last patch she was not used in PVP, however she was not changed in any way. The issue is one of greater balance and I have said many times that healing is just too powerful currently. Nerf healing across the board, then the healing immunity is not so important; and then Barriss is not longer such a factor.
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