@CG_RyDiggs the newest Mcmole video I think says alot of what we are thinking. Rey and her expose damage isn't the problem. She isn't Op because she can score 5-6m. The problem is she is the ONLY team that can score anything close to that amount. Every other team is barely getting over a million damage with exception of nightsisters. Sith are worthless. Empire is worthless for the most part. It would still be a tough challenge if you got rid of the stacking tenacity. Let's see a nerf in the customers favor.
Now the guilds are tight-lipped about any team success because they are afraid they will be fixed. Something had to be done with StHan, but will Sion removing 100%tm in phase 2 get fixed as well since the raid details clearly state something else?
Well, again it seems dev didn’t test the game. Sry, guys, this is not the first time. It also looks like devs do not play their own game: they simply does not know the difficulties and challenges players have... that is really shame
Can we back up the truck a bit? STHan is the log in character of the month. Decided by CG. Are we really supposed to believe that in all this "pre-release testing" you forgot to test the character you chose to be the log in character on the same day the raid dropped?
I'm sorry - I love this game, but that is either incredibly inept or incredibly disingenuous. But either way it is EXTREMELY disturbing and disappointing.
"I move for a vote of no confidence." - Padme Amidala
I m actually not sure why people are **** off about STHan being both daily login and being part of the exploit. Are you saying that every month they regulary test the login on different parts of the game? @Nikoms565
First, please don't strawman me. I never said I was **** off. I said disturbed and disappointed.
Second, the log in character has almost always been connected to the important content being released that month. Whether last month's Sass with the Sith releases, Luke/Rey during the month of their first journey launch. That's part of the reason people want to know who the log in character is in advance - it often provides a clue as to what's upcoming, because CG's choice of log in character is never random.
Which simply forces one to come to one of a few conclusions - none of which paint the developers in a particularly flattering light.
what are these conclusions?
Alright, I am going to presume that you are genuinely asking and not just pulling a "tag and troll".
As I mentioned (and I think most would agree) the log-in character is chosen by CG to go along with the content released that month. One only has to look back at the past few months - Talia in October with all the NS releases, the two FO characters with the release of the new FO content and KRU events, Scav Rey in December with the Rey heroe's Journey, etc.
So we come to STHan and the major content is the Sith Raid. Since TM manipulation of the Raid bosses is extremely difficult, it was fairly clear that the only way for most to do strong damage was through TM manipulation of your own team. Rex and STHan are the obvious preferences. STHan even more so with the "healer" buff for this specific raid.
As it seems clear that STHan is suited well for the Sith Raid (and experience shows, a little too well) one can (should?) presume that he was the log in character for that specific reason - i.e. to help do well in the raid.
Which leads to one of two possible conclusions (which are the two I alluded to in my original post that you quoted and tagged):
1) That STHan was indeed tested for his raid functionality - but tested very poorly and not nearly thoroughly enough. This is the "extremely inept" conclusion from my original post.
2) That STHan was tested and they new full well he was ridiculously well suited to create the issues he did - as witnessed by numerous guilds and players quickly realizing his functionality in, not one, but two phases (3 & 4 when facing Traya alone in either). This is the "disingenuous" part of the original post. If you presume this conclusion, then you assume they let it happen for a week+ - let people pour resources into STHan, buy packs, gear him up, put Zetas on Ventress to work in combo with him, etc. THEN announced the change and plans to nerf him - and several other characters.
Now, there is a 3rd possibility as well, which is tied to the 2nd (they already knew) - that they knew STHan was OP, but hoped the players wouldn't figure it out, or that they would put out anyway knowing they would have to fix it later. But again, this wreaks of ineptitude and laziness as well.
TL;DR - either they knew and released him anyway (disingenuous) or they didn't even know, despite the fact that they released him in conjunction with the raid (ineptitude).
And this feels eerily similar to mod-gate - a few frantic days of spending then the nerf hammer.
Oh - and that's an entirely different issue (but equally problematic). They could have used a scalpel to fix the STHan issue - and even brought JTRey into balance so as to allow some raid team diversity. But have instead decided to go nuclear by not only making changes that effect the one or two characters whose damage is a little high (or in STHan's case, ridiculously so) but also making sweeping changes to dozens of characters that will even change (to a lesser extent) other raids. Horrible decision.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
To the very, very few of you who have defended the expose nerf, can you please explain why it is a problem if the most recent legendary toon, with a g12 squad of mostly special event characters, well modded, with several zetas, can do high single digit percent damage to a single raid tier?
Up until this raid was released, JTR was the most difficult character in the game to acquire. To deal 10m+ damage you need to have her leader zeta, r2 cleanse, and bb8 assist zetas at a minimum, along with g12 chars. You then have to very carefully time your turns and execute a specific strategy to counter Nihilus annihilate, which is complicated by the fact that he is bugged and takes turns without full TM, and that he doesn't always use annihilate when available.
That is a huge price to pay, and 15-20 people need to pay it to chew through a single tier. How is this a problem?
The justification given is totally nuts. We have to nerf JTRey because that team is better than others? It's the hardest team in the game to acquire, and extremely expensive in terms of gear and zetas. Maybe it's OK that it is good for 2 tiers (while being mediocre at best, and now likely to be totally useless, for the last 2 where Traya constantly has foresight).
lay down figures man, significant changes to expose - like what percentage -50% of what it is doing now or higher?
reduction in raid boss hp - what percentage? reducing it by 1% is also a reduction.
Forget it my friend, people asked this before (myself included) and they ignored the questions. Doubt they will answer now...;/
if they significantly reduce the health pretty much everyone in this thread would be happy. JTR would be on par with other teams and we wouldn't be chipping away at the raid 0.1% at the time.
lay down figures man, significant changes to expose - like what percentage -50% of what it is doing now or higher?
reduction in raid boss hp - what percentage? reducing it by 1% is also a reduction.
Forget it my friend, people asked this before (myself included) and they ignored the questions. Doubt they will answer now...;/
if they significantly reduce the health pretty much everyone in this thread would be happy. JTR would be on par with other teams and we wouldn't be chipping away at the raid 0.1% at the time.
I get the feeling the reduction was from less than 5%....
lay down figures man, significant changes to expose - like what percentage -50% of what it is doing now or higher?
reduction in raid boss hp - what percentage? reducing it by 1% is also a reduction.
Forget it my friend, people asked this before (myself included) and they ignored the questions. Doubt they will answer now...;/
if they significantly reduce the health pretty much everyone in this thread would be happy. JTR would be on par with other teams and we wouldn't be chipping away at the raid 0.1% at the time.
I get the feeling the reduction was from less than 5%....
We wanted to take this opportunity to restate our ongoing strategy around releasing and curating new content in Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes. Specifically, we want to provide information about upcoming changes related to the recently released Sith Triumvirate Raid.
With each new Raid, our goals are to bring a new level of challenge to the game and to provide innovative gameplay which encourages strategic thinking and “outside the meta” play. We recognize that when a Raid is new, success in the Raid helps define high level competition in the game. Later, when the Raid becomes widely understood, we begin the process of designing a new Raid so players can be challenged again in this unique aspect of the game.
We regularly evaluate, and update, the current state of any Raid. This regular evaluation can lead to changes such as tuning tweaks, adjustment of rewards, and bug fixes. As a part of this process, we actively look for interactions that undermine the “spirit” of any new Raid and decide whether or not we need to make changes to the Raid to prevent them.
Teams that can perform infinite loops within the first week of release fall within this category of “undermining the design spirit”. We consider each incident of this nature individually to determine whether corrective actions are warranted. While we do have several processes in place to prevent these interactions from making it into the live game, they unfortunately can still happen. In order to protect the integrity of the design and the experience, we will continue to actively curate the Raids (and any other content) going forward.
Before proceeding with specific changes, we want to thank you all for your excitement for and participation in the Sith Triumvirate Raid. We’ve enjoyed watching the players engage and best the ancient and terrible Sith Lords. Your excitement in tackling one of our most challenging pieces of content to date, inspires the entire studio to continue our commitment to making the best game possible. Thank you for being part of the improvement process. The Galaxy of Heroes community is an amazing, dedicated, and passionate group of people. You are all key to the game’s current and future success!
... (Sith Raid Change elswhere)
As always, we appreciate your continued support. Thanks for playing with us.
This change is only for raid bosses.
This will have minimal impact on AAT/Rancor as expose is a minimal impact on those raids.
This is not nerfing expose for other areas of the game.
2. This will only affect Raid bosses, not other game areas.
3. This will have some minimal effect on Pit and AAT raids, but will not be nearly significant.
4. We will monitor the update afterwards and make sure design goals are being met.
5. CLARIFICATION:
The planned changes are designed to guard against STHan exploiting an infinite Turn Meter loop in Phases 3 and 4 of the Sith Triumvirate Raid. Consequently, those units with “on-damage” turn meter effects will see a change in performance in Phases 3 and 4. These units are unaffected in Phases 1 and 2.
Current testing indicates those units with “on-damage” effects applying resistible effects are performing very close to previous levels in Phases 3 and 4. These units are unaffected in Phases 1 and 2.
Current testing indicates those units with “on-damage” healing effects are less survivable in Phases 3 and 4. These units are unaffected in Phases 1 and 2.
6. TBD
Wow, terrible Q&A. To have not caught this mechanic before pushing the raid live is bad enough, but, to further nerf characters and teams to adjust to the new raid seems very short-sighted. On top of that, you are nerfing expose in raids- poor form. I would strongly urge Capital Games to rethink this course of action before meting out changes. I have put a lot of time, effort, and money into my resistance team in order to compete in raids (they sure as hell don't do well in arena, and, TW controlled by the AI). Why don't you just change Darth Traya specifically. Don't nerf expose. Don't nerf STHan.
The best idea: Provide diminishing returns to expose and STHan's unique when engaged with Darth Traya. Allow for diminished expose damage, each time a successful exposed is removed from Traya. Diminish STHan's turn meter returns after the first time the ability is engaged.
Your team needs to think outside of the box, and, consider the 'millions of players' you are supposedly advocating. My solution may be more difficult to implement, but, it would draw less ire from the thousands of active players that PAY Capital Games to unlock and improve their roster (myself being one of these).
I look forward to your response, ignoring my suggestion would be very obtuse.
If you go to a shop and buy a can of baked beans it won’t suddenly morph into a can of peas by the time you get home. Seriously who’s in charge here??????
Hotfixing stuff that is beneficial for the player base, but when it comes to bugs it may take month.
And ignoring the wishes for qol features and reward adjustments for month and month. Anyone liking the way you change mods in this game.
I am totally disappointed in the devs and disagree with most of the changes to the raid.
A month? - try from Halloween. I can't even say how long Teebo remained busted. That's okay though. That's somehow acceptable to CG.
Nute Gunray and ST Han - well, now, thems the bugs has git fixed right aways.
It's AMAZING how fast they can move on CERTAIN things, isn't it?
Why is the expose mechanic being nerfed? Lets see, nerf sthan, whom no one uses, of everyones favorite mechanic. Lets see...everyones favorite mechanic will do.
Basically you need to be close to 200mil gp to ever beat this raid on heroic, unless you lower the incredibly ridiculous health pools.
This is a silly and unnecessary change. I can think of three ways right now to fix this mechanic without nerfing or changing any mechanic but the raid bosses.
My opinion/assumption as to why, is they wanted us to fail even with the best rosters so that we would be excited when level 100 and tier 7 mods come out. Without needing them for the raid, everyone would be annoyed at the level increase.
Oh - and that's an entirely different issue (but equally problematic). They could have used a scalpel to fix the STHan issue - and even brought JTRey into balance so as to allow some raid team diversity. But have instead decided to go nuclear by not only making changes that effect the one or two characters whose damage is a little high (or in STHan's case, ridiculously so) but also making sweeping changes to dozens of characters that will even change (to a lesser extent) other raids. Horrible decision.
Great post top to bottom, but i have to interject on the idea that JTR needed to be brought "into balance" at all. She's not doing crazy damage. The problem is that CG has gone so overboard trying to prevent any and all unforeseen interactions (and still failed) that they've completely negated most of what makes many toons useful.
Bosses gaining immunity to certain effects I can understand (like stun, you shouldn't be able to stun lock a boss), but when they're for all practical purposes nearly immune to all effects that's simply bad design, and that's why we're in the boat we're in. Sith don't work, thermals don't work, basics, assists, and counters don't work (in p1 anyway). So what are we left with? Unresistable effects and speed, so of course Rey is gonna be top dog.
But just because she does what she's supposed to do while the other characters have been "mechanic'd" into oblivion doesn't mean that she's the problem. She'll never solo a phase - or even do 10%+ damage of a phase - she just looks like the be all end all because no one else can actually use their kit. McMole does a great job explaining this in his newest video.
All that to say, Rey isn't the problem. Shoot, none of our characters are the problem. The problem is the raid.
Regarding challenge gear, I have an idea that may work. I do actually understand Diggs point that challenge gear is needed for millions of players who are not able to farm it.
I don't. Who are these people that aren't able to get challenge gear but are relying on raids to acquire it?
syringes get requested in my guild (and donated), carbanti aren't being requested anymore because no one donates those.
Both are challenge gear. Maybe that's why he's justifying putting challenge gear in the raid rewards. Tier 6 doesn't potentially reward carbanti, tier 5 does however.
Surely our developers know that those pieces aren't the ones people are irritated about dropping in raids. Rancor drops Carbantis that I am always out of, cool. Rancor drops eyeball salvage that I have 2000 of, not cool.
What i was trying to imply is that maybe he using carbanti's as a way to justifiy the unjustifyable.
The impression I got is he/they genuinely have no idea what Challenge gear is, or the problem players have with challenge gear being awarded in raids.
Regarding challenge gear, I have an idea that may work. I do actually understand Diggs point that challenge gear is needed for millions of players who are not able to farm it.
I don't. Who are these people that aren't able to get challenge gear but are relying on raids to acquire it?
syringes get requested in my guild (and donated), carbanti aren't being requested anymore because no one donates those.
Both are challenge gear. Maybe that's why he's justifying putting challenge gear in the raid rewards. Tier 6 doesn't potentially reward carbanti, tier 5 does however.
Surely our developers know that those pieces aren't the ones people are irritated about dropping in raids. Rancor drops Carbantis that I am always out of, cool. Rancor drops eyeball salvage that I have 2000 of, not cool.
What i was trying to imply is that maybe he using carbanti's as a way to justifiy the unjustifyable.
The impression I got is he/they genuinely have no idea what Challenge gear is, or the problem players have with challenge gear being awarded in raids.
It's either an unwillingness or unableness (not a word, I know) to admit the difference between the different types of challenge gear.
Replies
Agreed, everyone else should do this.
Now the guilds are tight-lipped about any team success because they are afraid they will be fixed. Something had to be done with StHan, but will Sion removing 100%tm in phase 2 get fixed as well since the raid details clearly state something else?
Everyone have a great day
Alright, I am going to presume that you are genuinely asking and not just pulling a "tag and troll".
As I mentioned (and I think most would agree) the log-in character is chosen by CG to go along with the content released that month. One only has to look back at the past few months - Talia in October with all the NS releases, the two FO characters with the release of the new FO content and KRU events, Scav Rey in December with the Rey heroe's Journey, etc.
So we come to STHan and the major content is the Sith Raid. Since TM manipulation of the Raid bosses is extremely difficult, it was fairly clear that the only way for most to do strong damage was through TM manipulation of your own team. Rex and STHan are the obvious preferences. STHan even more so with the "healer" buff for this specific raid.
As it seems clear that STHan is suited well for the Sith Raid (and experience shows, a little too well) one can (should?) presume that he was the log in character for that specific reason - i.e. to help do well in the raid.
Which leads to one of two possible conclusions (which are the two I alluded to in my original post that you quoted and tagged):
1) That STHan was indeed tested for his raid functionality - but tested very poorly and not nearly thoroughly enough. This is the "extremely inept" conclusion from my original post.
2) That STHan was tested and they new full well he was ridiculously well suited to create the issues he did - as witnessed by numerous guilds and players quickly realizing his functionality in, not one, but two phases (3 & 4 when facing Traya alone in either). This is the "disingenuous" part of the original post. If you presume this conclusion, then you assume they let it happen for a week+ - let people pour resources into STHan, buy packs, gear him up, put Zetas on Ventress to work in combo with him, etc. THEN announced the change and plans to nerf him - and several other characters.
Now, there is a 3rd possibility as well, which is tied to the 2nd (they already knew) - that they knew STHan was OP, but hoped the players wouldn't figure it out, or that they would put out anyway knowing they would have to fix it later. But again, this wreaks of ineptitude and laziness as well.
TL;DR - either they knew and released him anyway (disingenuous) or they didn't even know, despite the fact that they released him in conjunction with the raid (ineptitude).
And this feels eerily similar to mod-gate - a few frantic days of spending then the nerf hammer.
Oh - and that's an entirely different issue (but equally problematic). They could have used a scalpel to fix the STHan issue - and even brought JTRey into balance so as to allow some raid team diversity. But have instead decided to go nuclear by not only making changes that effect the one or two characters whose damage is a little high (or in STHan's case, ridiculously so) but also making sweeping changes to dozens of characters that will even change (to a lesser extent) other raids. Horrible decision.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Up until this raid was released, JTR was the most difficult character in the game to acquire. To deal 10m+ damage you need to have her leader zeta, r2 cleanse, and bb8 assist zetas at a minimum, along with g12 chars. You then have to very carefully time your turns and execute a specific strategy to counter Nihilus annihilate, which is complicated by the fact that he is bugged and takes turns without full TM, and that he doesn't always use annihilate when available.
That is a huge price to pay, and 15-20 people need to pay it to chew through a single tier. How is this a problem?
The justification given is totally nuts. We have to nerf JTRey because that team is better than others? It's the hardest team in the game to acquire, and extremely expensive in terms of gear and zetas. Maybe it's OK that it is good for 2 tiers (while being mediocre at best, and now likely to be totally useless, for the last 2 where Traya constantly has foresight).
Forget it my friend, people asked this before (myself included) and they ignored the questions. Doubt they will answer now...;/
if they significantly reduce the health pretty much everyone in this thread would be happy. JTR would be on par with other teams and we wouldn't be chipping away at the raid 0.1% at the time.
expect the worst, hope for the best ?
The best idea: Provide diminishing returns to expose and STHan's unique when engaged with Darth Traya. Allow for diminished expose damage, each time a successful exposed is removed from Traya. Diminish STHan's turn meter returns after the first time the ability is engaged.
Your team needs to think outside of the box, and, consider the 'millions of players' you are supposedly advocating. My solution may be more difficult to implement, but, it would draw less ire from the thousands of active players that PAY Capital Games to unlock and improve their roster (myself being one of these).
I look forward to your response, ignoring my suggestion would be very obtuse.
obidrew
Hotfixing stuff that is beneficial for the player base, but when it comes to bugs it may take months.
And ignoring the wishes for qol features and reward adjustments for months and months. Anyone liking the way you change mods in this game.
I am totally disappointed in the devs and disagree with most of the changes to the raid.
A month? - try from Halloween. I can't even say how long Teebo remained busted. That's okay though. That's somehow acceptable to CG.
Nute Gunray and ST Han - well, now, thems the bugs has git fixed right aways.
It's AMAZING how fast they can move on CERTAIN things, isn't it?
Im angry to hear that you want to break a team i invest my time, money and resources....
Yes im talking of Rey Jedi Training...
I use a lot of expose in HAAT and spending my time and money to have a good team for that...
If you think i spend more money for characters you put in game for new raid (and its avalible only by crytals) because it
should be needed for new raid.... theres no chance....
WHY?
Because when i invest my money you will CHANGE THE RULES DURING GAME AGAIN. It shoudn't happen if something isn't a bug.
So if you broke EXPOSE on RJT i loose motivation to buy something in game...
AND YOU PROVE THAT SPENDING MONEY FOR THIS GAME IS WASTE OF MONEY
11:15am....
My opinion/assumption as to why, is they wanted us to fail even with the best rosters so that we would be excited when level 100 and tier 7 mods come out. Without needing them for the raid, everyone would be annoyed at the level increase.
Great post top to bottom, but i have to interject on the idea that JTR needed to be brought "into balance" at all. She's not doing crazy damage. The problem is that CG has gone so overboard trying to prevent any and all unforeseen interactions (and still failed) that they've completely negated most of what makes many toons useful.
Bosses gaining immunity to certain effects I can understand (like stun, you shouldn't be able to stun lock a boss), but when they're for all practical purposes nearly immune to all effects that's simply bad design, and that's why we're in the boat we're in. Sith don't work, thermals don't work, basics, assists, and counters don't work (in p1 anyway). So what are we left with? Unresistable effects and speed, so of course Rey is gonna be top dog.
But just because she does what she's supposed to do while the other characters have been "mechanic'd" into oblivion doesn't mean that she's the problem. She'll never solo a phase - or even do 10%+ damage of a phase - she just looks like the be all end all because no one else can actually use their kit. McMole does a great job explaining this in his newest video.
All that to say, Rey isn't the problem. Shoot, none of our characters are the problem. The problem is the raid.
Maybe you should wait to see how much the expose damage is reduced in HAAT before you START SHOUTING LIKE A CRAZY PERSON.
The impression I got is he/they genuinely have no idea what Challenge gear is, or the problem players have with challenge gear being awarded in raids.
It's either an unwillingness or unableness (not a word, I know) to admit the difference between the different types of challenge gear.