Well, for starters, I don't think many disagree with the swift action to nerf an infinite looping team that does obnoxious amounts of damage.
The issue here is choosing to change a character who was deemed WAI from release until this moment. Why now? Zombie was WAI through release, WAI while sold in marquee packs, WAI while sold through chromium and shipments, WAI as players used energy farming her hard node. All that time the NS ruled the arena for months....have been in other strong raid teams, so again, we ask, why change this kit now?
Having NS solo Nihilus in itself isn't a problem. Having NS rack up miles higher scores than other teams in other phases is a problem since the key to getting the exclusive raid rewards lies in racking up those high scores.
It's actually fine to tone down NS damage in the phase a bit, but again, if you fixed the rewards so it wasn't so crucial for progress to score top-10, it wouldn't be a big problem.
If NS scores half the damage they used to, that's actually fine, for the Heroic guilds. They just need to put in another NS team and they're done. The problem is in T6, where those 10 required teams are now 20.
You could have gotten away with this change just fine if you had:
1. Told us a couple of weeks in advance. Icing on the cake that you release this huge devaluation of long-time investments without any warning with the motivation you're doing it to protect people from making long-term investments.
2. Not released it in on a friday afternoon.
3. Tested it so it actually worked as advertised and didn't bug out.
4. Taken some time to think if you couldn't solve it in a less clunky way that didn't affect other teams.
5. Considered lower tiers that are the one actually hit by this change. Like halved all the boss hitpoints in all tiers.
6. Fixed the rewards. Like five-doubled rewards for T6 and below. And making it more linear so everyone has a small chance to get the exclusive rewards even if they don't score top 10.
I rarely comment on this forum, except to put 100% of my focus on recruiting for my guild.
That being said, the sheer disregard of guilds that are incredibly close to accomplishing HSTR is disheartening.
We were counting on the paper zombie strategy to push us through Nihilus in P4; we’ve been preparing with that in mind for months, relying on the effective and helpful advice from the guilds prior to us who used that strategy to accomplish HSTR themselves.
10 solid NS teams, they said. Now it’s what, 20? Considering the time it takes to farm a viable NS team for the phase, you’ve effectively riddled my guild with issues.
I’ve been doing the best I can to keep my guild together, driving us forward with the promise that we could see each other through HSTR.
Your abysmal rewards for the lower Sith Raid tiers inspired me to create special cash challenges for my guild members—out of my own dolphin pocket—to help stave off the urgency of our most powerful members who may be tempted to seek a guild already farming HSTR.
I’m really glad that you developers want to ensure your game is balanced and fun... by whatever arbitrary standards you make up out of thin air from one week to the next. It’s fine, it’s your product, design it however you want to. But where are your ethics? Where is your commitment to your playerbase and consumers?
I’m not going to threaten to leave the game or anything like that. I like the community I built with my guild. We’re a pretty solid group and we’ll adjust to you shifting the goal posts on us.
But what the guy said above, with his six points, those are steps you should be taking—if you have any integrity at all.
The most obnoxious thing on the internet is to be too lazy/not care enough to read someone’s post yet take the time to tell them about it.
if I take a post this long though it is good to put a TL'DR summary on there ... that is a lot of text relative to what many have the time or desire to read.
The FTP players are the ones who benefit the most for all these nerfs. They aren’t spending money and really don’t have to spend something that is worth more than money. Time. So, if you really want to appreciate the game.... stop spending money The nvestments aren’t worth it and maybe someone that sits at the top will lose there job
If anything, then it's the f2p that are at a disadvantage. While the p2p whales are already in strong enough guilds to clear and farm heroic anyway, the f2p people are forced to go a step back because they aren't HSTR ready anymore due to the NS nerf. This creates an even bigger gap between f2p and p2p that will be even harder, if not impossible to close.
Also... sure, p2p players may have a bigger influence on the game because they are spending and keeping the game alive (or could theoretically let it die by stopping to spend), but you forget one thing: money comes and goes, but the time f2p people spent on this CAN'T possibly be brought back. Even if some wouldn't like to hear this, but: time is worth WAY more than money.
I'd like to thank you all for taking the time to read this. I do have a tendency to be quite loquacious and I fully understand that not everyone enjoys that style of writing.
Tl:dr The "fix" was too elaborate to have been figured out in a single day. They only ever work fast/hard when a problem benefits players. Their fixes most negatively impact guilds that don't have heroic on farm.
Maybe they should just tell us what teams we should use so we can avoid more nerfs.
Also dev's, its not just the nerf and the sith raid that needs fixing.
1. We need a new way to get toons...Marquees are stale and boring. I have suggested a toon be release into bronzium packs only, daily shards of some toon when you complete all the day's activities (like MSF), a desperately needed new legendary toon. We need something fresh. We have what, 20 some marquees lately?
2. multi-pull bronziums....or better gear for a more expensive cost...something.
3. Revamp the challenges...add a tier or feature better gear, or give us the sell back tool ( I really don't care if people sell back the wrong gear on accident, they should be more careful. I accidentally put a zeta on someone, but I'm not complaining about it, it was my fault, I've bought mk4 stun guns thinking they were mk5, but again, my fault.)
4. Communications.....period
5. A road ahead that covers more than that last one.
6. Toons added to the shops. I know you have said that you will never add toons again, but I, and the entire player base implore you to reconsider. It's really annoying having to skip shops knowing there is nothing new in them.
7. Add an achievement for getting all the stars in Cantina, and LS/DS table.
8. Damage counter IN the raids, so we can see how much damage we are doing to help us determine if its a good run.
9. Have ship energy count toward our 600. This would help lower end guilds that are struggling to find people.
10. Let us Officers see who hasn't joined a TW. It's really annoying having to use the process of elimination.
11. Remove the little red 1 once guild reset happens in the guild activities section.
12. Require less Death Trooper like toons in Platoons and more Mob enforcers. The last TB, we have 11 death troopers required and 1 mob enforcer.
13. Let the game-changers in on some of the decision makings. Maybe their insight, since they interact with the player base, would provide some benefit. Just spitballing here.
14. Nerf your nerfs!
Thats all I can think of right now, but Im sure I missed a few. Please listen to the player base!
As the leader of a non “Whale” guild trying to get through the hSTR I couldn’t agree more. We’ve struggled through every other raid but now the best team outside of JTR in this one is nerfed cause the people farming excess Traya and grabbing the good loot figured out how to make it easier awesome.....
Well, for starters, I don't think many disagree with the swift action to nerf an infinite looping team that does obnoxious amounts of damage.
The issue here is choosing to change a character who was deemed WAI from release until this moment. Why now? Zombie was WAI through release, WAI while sold in marquee packs, WAI while sold through chromium and shipments, WAI as players used energy farming her hard node. All that time the NS ruled the arena for months....have been in other strong raid teams, so again, we ask, why change this kit now?
Answer: Because everyone has obtained a 7* zombie F2P now.
The Sith Raid is my least favourite part of the game. To the point that I will auto 5 runs to help out my guild but I could care less about it otherwise. Now my guild is working on moving up to HSTR, so I focused on the Nightsisters so that I can help out in at least a small way. On Friday I put my second zeta on Asajj, and now with this nerf, the team is useless.
This change doesn't impact the people that were exploiting the problem. It hurts the smaller players who are trying to improve.
I like how the op knows they have to say "it belongs in the general channel" because they know that it will get moved to another area where no one will see on purpose if not.
But again, to long...I briefly skimmed it.
I'd like to thank you all for taking the time to read this. I do have a tendency to be quite loquacious and I fully understand that not everyone enjoys that style of writing.
Tl:dr The "fix" was too elaborate to have been figured out in a single day. They only ever work fast/hard when a problem benefits players. Their fixes most negatively impact guilds that don't have heroic on farm.
Maybe they should just tell us what teams we should use so we can avoid more nerfs.
I read every word, I like to be articulate and fully defensible of my thesis as well, beautiful post.
Great post and well said!
Add more spaces next time - it’s easier on the eyes.
Sith raid is pretty cray. You def get the feel of the devs trying to make it work as much as they can.
I get you can’t just do whatever your fan base wants you to do but you need to take notice and heed some things. Communication is clearly issue that has been acknowledged by the dev team and has been complained about by the players for a very long time. Here is a hint- communicate. Speak, talk, text, write- use speaxh to text, something.
The state we re in is a downward spiral. There are so many issues that have been glossed over and pushed aside. That Q and A was for nada. There is no follow through. Keep the daka zeta. Do better. Build trust. Make a fun game.
You know why it quickly got the nerf bat?
What if a 60 million guilg could twice a week convince someone who could solo p3 and p4 DN then basically everyone could devise a work around to the raid. If your lucky enough to have traya at 7* odds are your home guild is asking you to dial back a bit so everyone can get her.
You know why it quickly got the nerf bat?
What if a 60 million guilg could twice a week convince someone who could solo p3 and p4 DN then basically everyone could devise a work around to the raid. If your lucky enough to have traya at 7* odds are your home guild is asking you to dial back a bit so everyone can get her.
Therefore nerfed to hell.
a 60 mil GP guild would need a lot more then one 7* traya merc to clear the HSTR.
You know why it quickly got the nerf bat?
What if a 60 million guilg could twice a week convince someone who could solo p3 and p4 DN then basically everyone could devise a work around to the raid. If your lucky enough to have traya at 7* odds are your home guild is asking you to dial back a bit so everyone can get her.
Therefore nerfed to hell.
I don't see anyone arguing that the infinite loop shouldn't be fixed. I see a lot of people agree that the nerf was too excessive and targeted NS unfairly.
The loop needed fixing and I don't see OP saying it didn't. This fix is too aggressive and renders a lot of effort and resource allocation void to a considerable degree.
It's also highly unrealistic that a 60 million GP guild could handle phases 1 and 2 unless they only farmed the teams that are best for the raid. I get what you're saying to a degree, but what are the odds that many guilds could have done this and suddenly become self sufficient in the raid over the weekend?
I wonder if devs are able to track individual spending. If so they really should check my account. $3,000 spent in 8 months. Only about $500 spent in the last 2 months. Shame on me for even giving them that, but I wonder what's caused me to cut my spending in half.
It certainly isn't because I don't have the money. I am single, with no kids, and have $1200 a month in bills. I nade $80,000 last year. I have plenty of money.
Wonder if its the junk that they are peddling right now. To much RNG, bad Sith Raids, loss of 8 hard node farms per day, nerfing an entire squad to fix something that only .005% of the player base can do anyways, no communication, to many marquee events, etc. etc. etc.
I'd love to give you my money again CG, but at the rate your going don't be surprised to see me cut my spending in half again. Maybe they really don't care though. Maybe $50 bucks a month is enough to keep them going.
Sigh.
THIS is the post we all need to pay attention to. Because this is the only thing they will listen to. It doesn't matter how much we all cry about it in the forums, so long as we spend. So mayhaps it is time to start protesting the way CG is ignoring us by ending our investment in them.
@Cheif2443: I'm in the same situation. I just got into a great guild and have been working to build up the Nightsisters so I can legitimately contribute to raids. Currently level 79. I've spent two months and several hundred dollars just to build my NS paper zombie team strategy. This is borderline theft!!! If I knew this change was going to be made, I would not have invested so much time and money! Refunding Daka's zeta!? What about the people who haven't done that yet!? If you're going to be even remotely fair you should refund every dollar anyone has spent on the NS! This is just insane, simple fix change the raid mechanics of Traya's isolation ability.
I want you to keep in mind that I love this game, and this is reflected by the fact that i have spent a significant amount of my income playing it. You guys have done a ton of irritating things lately, but this getting dangerously close to lawsuit territory! You can't sell a product and then purposefully break it without compensating the consumer. If you can remove and refund Zetas, then just offer to reset people's ns zombie. But to fundamentally change the functioning ability of a product after selling it without proper compensation is criminal. I'm extremely disappointed and hope you guys do the right thing.
Replies
The issue here is choosing to change a character who was deemed WAI from release until this moment. Why now? Zombie was WAI through release, WAI while sold in marquee packs, WAI while sold through chromium and shipments, WAI as players used energy farming her hard node. All that time the NS ruled the arena for months....have been in other strong raid teams, so again, we ask, why change this kit now?
Great perspective
I rarely comment on this forum, except to put 100% of my focus on recruiting for my guild.
That being said, the sheer disregard of guilds that are incredibly close to accomplishing HSTR is disheartening.
We were counting on the paper zombie strategy to push us through Nihilus in P4; we’ve been preparing with that in mind for months, relying on the effective and helpful advice from the guilds prior to us who used that strategy to accomplish HSTR themselves.
10 solid NS teams, they said. Now it’s what, 20? Considering the time it takes to farm a viable NS team for the phase, you’ve effectively riddled my guild with issues.
I’ve been doing the best I can to keep my guild together, driving us forward with the promise that we could see each other through HSTR.
Your abysmal rewards for the lower Sith Raid tiers inspired me to create special cash challenges for my guild members—out of my own dolphin pocket—to help stave off the urgency of our most powerful members who may be tempted to seek a guild already farming HSTR.
I’m really glad that you developers want to ensure your game is balanced and fun... by whatever arbitrary standards you make up out of thin air from one week to the next. It’s fine, it’s your product, design it however you want to. But where are your ethics? Where is your commitment to your playerbase and consumers?
I’m not going to threaten to leave the game or anything like that. I like the community I built with my guild. We’re a pretty solid group and we’ll adjust to you shifting the goal posts on us.
But what the guy said above, with his six points, those are steps you should be taking—if you have any integrity at all.
if I take a post this long though it is good to put a TL'DR summary on there ... that is a lot of text relative to what many have the time or desire to read.
If anything, then it's the f2p that are at a disadvantage. While the p2p whales are already in strong enough guilds to clear and farm heroic anyway, the f2p people are forced to go a step back because they aren't HSTR ready anymore due to the NS nerf. This creates an even bigger gap between f2p and p2p that will be even harder, if not impossible to close.
Also... sure, p2p players may have a bigger influence on the game because they are spending and keeping the game alive (or could theoretically let it die by stopping to spend), but you forget one thing: money comes and goes, but the time f2p people spent on this CAN'T possibly be brought back. Even if some wouldn't like to hear this, but: time is worth WAY more than money.
Tl:dr The "fix" was too elaborate to have been figured out in a single day. They only ever work fast/hard when a problem benefits players. Their fixes most negatively impact guilds that don't have heroic on farm.
Maybe they should just tell us what teams we should use so we can avoid more nerfs.
1. We need a new way to get toons...Marquees are stale and boring. I have suggested a toon be release into bronzium packs only, daily shards of some toon when you complete all the day's activities (like MSF), a desperately needed new legendary toon. We need something fresh. We have what, 20 some marquees lately?
2. multi-pull bronziums....or better gear for a more expensive cost...something.
3. Revamp the challenges...add a tier or feature better gear, or give us the sell back tool ( I really don't care if people sell back the wrong gear on accident, they should be more careful. I accidentally put a zeta on someone, but I'm not complaining about it, it was my fault, I've bought mk4 stun guns thinking they were mk5, but again, my fault.)
4. Communications.....period
5. A road ahead that covers more than that last one.
6. Toons added to the shops. I know you have said that you will never add toons again, but I, and the entire player base implore you to reconsider. It's really annoying having to skip shops knowing there is nothing new in them.
7. Add an achievement for getting all the stars in Cantina, and LS/DS table.
8. Damage counter IN the raids, so we can see how much damage we are doing to help us determine if its a good run.
9. Have ship energy count toward our 600. This would help lower end guilds that are struggling to find people.
10. Let us Officers see who hasn't joined a TW. It's really annoying having to use the process of elimination.
11. Remove the little red 1 once guild reset happens in the guild activities section.
12. Require less Death Trooper like toons in Platoons and more Mob enforcers. The last TB, we have 11 death troopers required and 1 mob enforcer.
13. Let the game-changers in on some of the decision makings. Maybe their insight, since they interact with the player base, would provide some benefit. Just spitballing here.
14. Nerf your nerfs!
Thats all I can think of right now, but Im sure I missed a few. Please listen to the player base!
Answer: Because everyone has obtained a 7* zombie F2P now.
This change doesn't impact the people that were exploiting the problem. It hurts the smaller players who are trying to improve.
But again, to long...I briefly skimmed it.
I read every word, I like to be articulate and fully defensible of my thesis as well, beautiful post.
Add more spaces next time - it’s easier on the eyes.
Sith raid is pretty cray. You def get the feel of the devs trying to make it work as much as they can.
I get you can’t just do whatever your fan base wants you to do but you need to take notice and heed some things. Communication is clearly issue that has been acknowledged by the dev team and has been complained about by the players for a very long time. Here is a hint- communicate. Speak, talk, text, write- use speaxh to text, something.
The state we re in is a downward spiral. There are so many issues that have been glossed over and pushed aside. That Q and A was for nada. There is no follow through. Keep the daka zeta. Do better. Build trust. Make a fun game.
What if a 60 million guilg could twice a week convince someone who could solo p3 and p4 DN then basically everyone could devise a work around to the raid. If your lucky enough to have traya at 7* odds are your home guild is asking you to dial back a bit so everyone can get her.
Therefore nerfed to hell.
a 60 mil GP guild would need a lot more then one 7* traya merc to clear the HSTR.
I don't see anyone arguing that the infinite loop shouldn't be fixed. I see a lot of people agree that the nerf was too excessive and targeted NS unfairly.
The loop needed fixing and I don't see OP saying it didn't. This fix is too aggressive and renders a lot of effort and resource allocation void to a considerable degree.
It's also highly unrealistic that a 60 million GP guild could handle phases 1 and 2 unless they only farmed the teams that are best for the raid. I get what you're saying to a degree, but what are the odds that many guilds could have done this and suddenly become self sufficient in the raid over the weekend?
THIS is the post we all need to pay attention to. Because this is the only thing they will listen to. It doesn't matter how much we all cry about it in the forums, so long as we spend. So mayhaps it is time to start protesting the way CG is ignoring us by ending our investment in them.
I want you to keep in mind that I love this game, and this is reflected by the fact that i have spent a significant amount of my income playing it. You guys have done a ton of irritating things lately, but this getting dangerously close to lawsuit territory! You can't sell a product and then purposefully break it without compensating the consumer. If you can remove and refund Zetas, then just offer to reset people's ns zombie. But to fundamentally change the functioning ability of a product after selling it without proper compensation is criminal. I'm extremely disappointed and hope you guys do the right thing.
Here’s the post:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/153504/fix-the-nightsister-zombie-gear-exploit#latest
A simple zeta refund isn’t enough. Most of us geared up 4 night sister toons to G12 plus used 3-5 zetas.
Really good find, mad grep skills