Update on the Finn/Threepio Raid Interaction: Resulting Finn Modifications [MEGA]

Replies

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    I think what he’s trying to say is- when the player base gets some info from the devs that the rage dies down. Which makes things more civil.

    No matter what it is- if we are truly looking to make this a better place it takes all of us, devs included to fix it.

    Yea the forums can be a dumpster fire and snarky as hell but there has clearly been a lack of communication for a long time here.

    This game is built to make you just frustrated enough to say f it. I’ll buy some purp to make me less frustrated. That resonates here.

    If we are to change the culture here we need to change it from the roots up not just snipping the bud and expect it not to come up again

    The roots are the community.

    It's a game, and they have stated they do many of the things people are asking for, but because they dont say every time, within the timeframe that someone projects "we are listening", the consensus seems to be "rage because they are not listening".

    If someone else's actions can make you do something against "your better judgement ", maybe it's time to step back take a deep breath and gain some perspective on the situation.

    If they don't want feedback, they shouldn't ask for it.
    "It doesn't appear anyone is listening" is feedback, irrespective of your thoughts on its validity.

    When did I say, it's not feedback?

    I said "rage because they are not listening". Feeling like they are not listening despite what they say and then acting on that in an uncivilized way, is in no way the same as saying, " we dont feel like we are being listed to, this is unacceptable and as a customer I would like this to change." < that is feedback.
  • mvs84
    33 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    Well, it seems that, contrary to what some were defending here, after ONE brief, but informative and suffient reply from CG, there seems to be a much more civilized behavior on everyone's end, doesn't it?

    It takes 2 to tango outside of the choir room. If you often give the other cheek around (aka, being civil and polite even when you are being ignored or disrespected), you are risking getting a second haymaker to your face. Sad real life truth is one has to be rude, from time to time, to get things going.

    Anyways, I am still using Finn on arena, not because I don't have Revan or can't win with him. Simply because of how Finn makes Revan go down fast and batrles don't time out. Ever. Finn is great.

    If CG has determined that Finn must change for the game to keep evolving, I stongly suggest adopting the policy of refunding at least the top end materials to the players - and that goes for every future rework.

    Is a policy like that is implemented, it will show a greater respect for the player base (consumers), who will have the choice of reinvesting the omegas and zetas however they see fit. If refunding gets too complicated to implement (I am an ape, when it comes to coding), than a compensation would also be respectful.

    Obviously, it will not make everyone happy, whichever path is chosen, but sometimes it comes down to minimizing damage.

    Not sure what you're saying, That it's OK to act immature if it gets what you want. Doesn't change my point that you're still responsible for your own behavior and not CG. Repeating your ideas over and over doesn't move responsibility to CG dev team. I think CG team was benevolent here not because of the forums rashness, but despite the forums rashness.

    I apologize if I didn't make myself clear. I'm not a native English speaker, as you might have noticed.

    I said all it took was a simple and clear answer that CG is still looking into finding a solution, that the opinions expressed here are, at the very least, being read and the fallout ended. Or haven't you noticed?

    By the way, when you go to McDonalds and they give you your order is not because they are "benevolent". It's just their job. They get paid for it, you know.

    And when you go to McDonald's and speak the way some have spoken here to the teller, or just in general to the staff, people dont generally say "it's ok, he has been waiting for his food for a while". They would think it was rude, and maybe they wouldnt step in, but they wouldnt condone it.

    My point has been, if we as a collective kept that (or worked towards that)attitude here, maybe we could raise things up a little bit on our end.
    They didnt comment because of the attitude here, they did comment because it is their job, the issue here is that people seem to want to make judgements about the situation that are not true.

    They do read the comments.
    They will respond, it may not be on your timetable, and that's ok.
    The number of pages doesnt matter.
    They do consider changes to what they have stated, no they may not be able to say that as early as you would like.

    These things (and others) are always true, despite what anyone wants to think. Maybe we can all just remember that moving forward.


    You can erase my messages as many times as you want. I have all day to upload it again and again and again... If you block my account, I will create a new account (I have several email addresses). If you ban my IP, I will reset the router and I will have a new one, but my message remains in the forum.

    When you go to a restaurant and they give you a bad fish, they change it or they give you back the money.

    When you buy a product, if it is defective, they have to give you a product of equal or superior quality.

    Many of us have paid to go up to Finn or even the Ewoks to get to C3PO to use the combination with Finn before the announcement of the change.

    For them, Finn is a bad fish and it has to be changed, but they offer us something worse.

    On the other hand, ignoring someone is a lack of respect as well as insulting or speaking disparagingly of someone.

    They have ignored us for months. I do not know how many developers will work in the game, but I assure you that many less than the users that play the game.

    If the conversations here have been "toxic", it is not for the users, it is for the lack of respect towards us for ignoring us (For months).

    As I have repeated many times, we are the players, the buyers and the customers of the game. The game is supposed to be for us, but the lack of respect and the continuous errors (Finn, GA, TW, Grievous, B2 ....) make us burn.

    I do not know in other countries, but in Spain there is a phrase that is: The client is always right.

    And it is a very simple matter, in every dispute there are always 2 parties and the law always protects the weakest. Without entering into trial issues, we, the players and buyers, are the weakest part.

    You can be educated whenever there is a communication. Without wishing to offend, what users wanted was a direct communication with those in charge of the game, not with the moderators who are mere mediators. But we do not want your answers, because they can not provide any information to our complaints. You are there to erase the messages that do not interest you and try to mediate, but without contributing anything. And I repeat, without intending to offend anyone, but in this dispute there are 3 clear parts that must be differentiated.

    Not all people have the same patience. Not all people have received the education necessary to speak in a pleasant way for you. Not all people have money to spare so they can be ignored.

    For many people, perhaps this game is their only way of escape from the life they have lived. If they are ignored here, the writing can be abrupt.

    With a simple phrase after so many months, the thing has calmed down. That's what we were looking for, even if the answer does not bring anything new to the problem.

    You said:
    - They didnt comment because of the attitude here, they did comment because it is their job, the issue here is that people seem to want to make judgements about the situation that are not true. (How many months later?)

    - They do read the comments. (Really?)

    - hey will respond, it may not be on your timetable, and that's ok. (How many months later? Again)

    - The number of pages doesnt matter. (Wow, if really 46 pages of complaints are not a problem ... They are ignoring us more than we imagined. A complaint is not the same as 1000 complaints. I hope you're not talking in the name of the company and it's your personal opinion ...)

    - They do consider changes to what they have stated, no they may not be able to say that as early as you would like. (And once again, how many months later? Many users, Many users, myself included, have proposed possible solutions to the problem. (Oh, wait, my message was deleted, what a coincidence))

    - These things (and others) are always true, despite what anyone wants to think. Maybe we can all just remember that moving forward. (That is your thought as a moderator, but it is not reality.)

    I appreciate the work of each one as I like that I appreciate my work. I do not care if they do the rework or not. I am really disappointed already and I am clear that I will not spend my money on the game again. But from what I've already spent, and @Kyno, you know how much, I just want to ask for one thing.

    Do not insult our intelligence. You (Developers and moderators) are not better than us.

    I's my opinion.
  • mvs84 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    Well, it seems that, contrary to what some were defending here, after ONE brief, but informative and suffient reply from CG, there seems to be a much more civilized behavior on everyone's end, doesn't it?

    It takes 2 to tango outside of the choir room. If you often give the other cheek around (aka, being civil and polite even when you are being ignored or disrespected), you are risking getting a second haymaker to your face. Sad real life truth is one has to be rude, from time to time, to get things going.

    Anyways, I am still using Finn on arena, not because I don't have Revan or can't win with him. Simply because of how Finn makes Revan go down fast and batrles don't time out. Ever. Finn is great.

    If CG has determined that Finn must change for the game to keep evolving, I stongly suggest adopting the policy of refunding at least the top end materials to the players - and that goes for every future rework.

    Is a policy like that is implemented, it will show a greater respect for the player base (consumers), who will have the choice of reinvesting the omegas and zetas however they see fit. If refunding gets too complicated to implement (I am an ape, when it comes to coding), than a compensation would also be respectful.

    Obviously, it will not make everyone happy, whichever path is chosen, but sometimes it comes down to minimizing damage.

    Not sure what you're saying, That it's OK to act immature if it gets what you want. Doesn't change my point that you're still responsible for your own behavior and not CG. Repeating your ideas over and over doesn't move responsibility to CG dev team. I think CG team was benevolent here not because of the forums rashness, but despite the forums rashness.

    I apologize if I didn't make myself clear. I'm not a native English speaker, as you might have noticed.

    I said all it took was a simple and clear answer that CG is still looking into finding a solution, that the opinions expressed here are, at the very least, being read and the fallout ended. Or haven't you noticed?

    By the way, when you go to McDonalds and they give you your order is not because they are "benevolent". It's just their job. They get paid for it, you know.

    And when you go to McDonald's and speak the way some have spoken here to the teller, or just in general to the staff, people dont generally say "it's ok, he has been waiting for his food for a while". They would think it was rude, and maybe they wouldnt step in, but they wouldnt condone it.

    My point has been, if we as a collective kept that (or worked towards that)attitude here, maybe we could raise things up a little bit on our end.
    They didnt comment because of the attitude here, they did comment because it is their job, the issue here is that people seem to want to make judgements about the situation that are not true.

    They do read the comments.
    They will respond, it may not be on your timetable, and that's ok.
    The number of pages doesnt matter.
    They do consider changes to what they have stated, no they may not be able to say that as early as you would like.

    These things (and others) are always true, despite what anyone wants to think. Maybe we can all just remember that moving forward.


    You can erase my messages as many times as you want. I have all day to upload it again and again and again... If you block my account, I will create a new account (I have several email addresses). If you ban my IP, I will reset the router and I will have a new one, but my message remains in the forum.

    When you go to a restaurant and they give you a bad fish, they change it or they give you back the money.

    When you buy a product, if it is defective, they have to give you a product of equal or superior quality.

    Many of us have paid to go up to Finn or even the Ewoks to get to C3PO to use the combination with Finn before the announcement of the change.

    For them, Finn is a bad fish and it has to be changed, but they offer us something worse.

    On the other hand, ignoring someone is a lack of respect as well as insulting or speaking disparagingly of someone.

    They have ignored us for months. I do not know how many developers will work in the game, but I assure you that many less than the users that play the game.

    If the conversations here have been "toxic", it is not for the users, it is for the lack of respect towards us for ignoring us (For months).

    As I have repeated many times, we are the players, the buyers and the customers of the game. The game is supposed to be for us, but the lack of respect and the continuous errors (Finn, GA, TW, Grievous, B2 ....) make us burn.

    I do not know in other countries, but in Spain there is a phrase that is: The client is always right.

    And it is a very simple matter, in every dispute there are always 2 parties and the law always protects the weakest. Without entering into trial issues, we, the players and buyers, are the weakest part.

    You can be educated whenever there is a communication. Without wishing to offend, what users wanted was a direct communication with those in charge of the game, not with the moderators who are mere mediators. But we do not want your answers, because they can not provide any information to our complaints. You are there to erase the messages that do not interest you and try to mediate, but without contributing anything. And I repeat, without intending to offend anyone, but in this dispute there are 3 clear parts that must be differentiated.

    Not all people have the same patience. Not all people have received the education necessary to speak in a pleasant way for you. Not all people have money to spare so they can be ignored.

    For many people, perhaps this game is their only way of escape from the life they have lived. If they are ignored here, the writing can be abrupt.

    With a simple phrase after so many months, the thing has calmed down. That's what we were looking for, even if the answer does not bring anything new to the problem.

    You said:
    - They didnt comment because of the attitude here, they did comment because it is their job, the issue here is that people seem to want to make judgements about the situation that are not true. (How many months later?)

    - They do read the comments. (Really?)

    - hey will respond, it may not be on your timetable, and that's ok. (How many months later? Again)

    - The number of pages doesnt matter. (Wow, if really 46 pages of complaints are not a problem ... They are ignoring us more than we imagined. A complaint is not the same as 1000 complaints. I hope you're not talking in the name of the company and it's your personal opinion ...)

    - They do consider changes to what they have stated, no they may not be able to say that as early as you would like. (And once again, how many months later? Many users, Many users, myself included, have proposed possible solutions to the problem. (Oh, wait, my message was deleted, what a coincidence))

    - These things (and others) are always true, despite what anyone wants to think. Maybe we can all just remember that moving forward. (That is your thought as a moderator, but it is not reality.)

    I appreciate the work of each one as I like that I appreciate my work. I do not care if they do the rework or not. I am really disappointed already and I am clear that I will not spend my money on the game again. But from what I've already spent, and @Kyno, you know how much, I just want to ask for one thing.

    Do not insult our intelligence. You (Developers and moderators) are not better than us.

    I's my opinion.

    Overall, I thought this was good feedback. There was nothing mean or disparaging about it.
    what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
  • mvs84
    33 posts Member
    mvs84 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    Well, it seems that, contrary to what some were defending here, after ONE brief, but informative and suffient reply from CG, there seems to be a much more civilized behavior on everyone's end, doesn't it?

    It takes 2 to tango outside of the choir room. If you often give the other cheek around (aka, being civil and polite even when you are being ignored or disrespected), you are risking getting a second haymaker to your face. Sad real life truth is one has to be rude, from time to time, to get things going.

    Anyways, I am still using Finn on arena, not because I don't have Revan or can't win with him. Simply because of how Finn makes Revan go down fast and batrles don't time out. Ever. Finn is great.

    If CG has determined that Finn must change for the game to keep evolving, I stongly suggest adopting the policy of refunding at least the top end materials to the players - and that goes for every future rework.

    Is a policy like that is implemented, it will show a greater respect for the player base (consumers), who will have the choice of reinvesting the omegas and zetas however they see fit. If refunding gets too complicated to implement (I am an ape, when it comes to coding), than a compensation would also be respectful.

    Obviously, it will not make everyone happy, whichever path is chosen, but sometimes it comes down to minimizing damage.

    Not sure what you're saying, That it's OK to act immature if it gets what you want. Doesn't change my point that you're still responsible for your own behavior and not CG. Repeating your ideas over and over doesn't move responsibility to CG dev team. I think CG team was benevolent here not because of the forums rashness, but despite the forums rashness.

    I apologize if I didn't make myself clear. I'm not a native English speaker, as you might have noticed.

    I said all it took was a simple and clear answer that CG is still looking into finding a solution, that the opinions expressed here are, at the very least, being read and the fallout ended. Or haven't you noticed?

    By the way, when you go to McDonalds and they give you your order is not because they are "benevolent". It's just their job. They get paid for it, you know.

    And when you go to McDonald's and speak the way some have spoken here to the teller, or just in general to the staff, people dont generally say "it's ok, he has been waiting for his food for a while". They would think it was rude, and maybe they wouldnt step in, but they wouldnt condone it.

    My point has been, if we as a collective kept that (or worked towards that)attitude here, maybe we could raise things up a little bit on our end.
    They didnt comment because of the attitude here, they did comment because it is their job, the issue here is that people seem to want to make judgements about the situation that are not true.

    They do read the comments.
    They will respond, it may not be on your timetable, and that's ok.
    The number of pages doesnt matter.
    They do consider changes to what they have stated, no they may not be able to say that as early as you would like.

    These things (and others) are always true, despite what anyone wants to think. Maybe we can all just remember that moving forward.


    You can erase my messages as many times as you want. I have all day to upload it again and again and again... If you block my account, I will create a new account (I have several email addresses). If you ban my IP, I will reset the router and I will have a new one, but my message remains in the forum.

    When you go to a restaurant and they give you a bad fish, they change it or they give you back the money.

    When you buy a product, if it is defective, they have to give you a product of equal or superior quality.

    Many of us have paid to go up to Finn or even the Ewoks to get to C3PO to use the combination with Finn before the announcement of the change.

    For them, Finn is a bad fish and it has to be changed, but they offer us something worse.

    On the other hand, ignoring someone is a lack of respect as well as insulting or speaking disparagingly of someone.

    They have ignored us for months. I do not know how many developers will work in the game, but I assure you that many less than the users that play the game.

    If the conversations here have been "toxic", it is not for the users, it is for the lack of respect towards us for ignoring us (For months).

    As I have repeated many times, we are the players, the buyers and the customers of the game. The game is supposed to be for us, but the lack of respect and the continuous errors (Finn, GA, TW, Grievous, B2 ....) make us burn.

    I do not know in other countries, but in Spain there is a phrase that is: The client is always right.

    And it is a very simple matter, in every dispute there are always 2 parties and the law always protects the weakest. Without entering into trial issues, we, the players and buyers, are the weakest part.

    You can be educated whenever there is a communication. Without wishing to offend, what users wanted was a direct communication with those in charge of the game, not with the moderators who are mere mediators. But we do not want your answers, because they can not provide any information to our complaints. You are there to erase the messages that do not interest you and try to mediate, but without contributing anything. And I repeat, without intending to offend anyone, but in this dispute there are 3 clear parts that must be differentiated.

    Not all people have the same patience. Not all people have received the education necessary to speak in a pleasant way for you. Not all people have money to spare so they can be ignored.

    For many people, perhaps this game is their only way of escape from the life they have lived. If they are ignored here, the writing can be abrupt.

    With a simple phrase after so many months, the thing has calmed down. That's what we were looking for, even if the answer does not bring anything new to the problem.

    You said:
    - They didnt comment because of the attitude here, they did comment because it is their job, the issue here is that people seem to want to make judgements about the situation that are not true. (How many months later?)

    - They do read the comments. (Really?)

    - hey will respond, it may not be on your timetable, and that's ok. (How many months later? Again)

    - The number of pages doesnt matter. (Wow, if really 46 pages of complaints are not a problem ... They are ignoring us more than we imagined. A complaint is not the same as 1000 complaints. I hope you're not talking in the name of the company and it's your personal opinion ...)

    - They do consider changes to what they have stated, no they may not be able to say that as early as you would like. (And once again, how many months later? Many users, Many users, myself included, have proposed possible solutions to the problem. (Oh, wait, my message was deleted, what a coincidence))

    - These things (and others) are always true, despite what anyone wants to think. Maybe we can all just remember that moving forward. (That is your thought as a moderator, but it is not reality.)

    I appreciate the work of each one as I like that I appreciate my work. I do not care if they do the rework or not. I am really disappointed already and I am clear that I will not spend my money on the game again. But from what I've already spent, and @Kyno, you know how much, I just want to ask for one thing.

    Do not insult our intelligence. You (Developers and moderators) are not better than us.

    I's my opinion.

    Overall, I thought this was good feedback. There was nothing mean or disparaging about it.

    Thanks, I do not understand why, someone, has deleted my previous message.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    @mvs84 I didnt delete anything. Please do not comment that I think I am better than you or put your imagined slight on me.

    I am a player just like you, and have never said otherwise. Asking for civility has nothing to do with being better than someone else.
    We dont remove posts that do not violate the Forum Guidelines, if you didnt get a warning, it is likely caught in the spam filter. Please try to be a little more considerate before you act like I am doing something against you.
  • Firebrigade
    822 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Kyno wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    Well, it seems that, contrary to what some were defending here, after ONE brief, but informative and suffient reply from CG, there seems to be a much more civilized behavior on everyone's end, doesn't it?

    It takes 2 to tango outside of the choir room. If you often give the other cheek around (aka, being civil and polite even when you are being ignored or disrespected), you are risking getting a second haymaker to your face. Sad real life truth is one has to be rude, from time to time, to get things going.

    Anyways, I am still using Finn on arena, not because I don't have Revan or can't win with him. Simply because of how Finn makes Revan go down fast and batrles don't time out. Ever. Finn is great.

    If CG has determined that Finn must change for the game to keep evolving, I stongly suggest adopting the policy of refunding at least the top end materials to the players - and that goes for every future rework.

    Is a policy like that is implemented, it will show a greater respect for the player base (consumers), who will have the choice of reinvesting the omegas and zetas however they see fit. If refunding gets too complicated to implement (I am an ape, when it comes to coding), than a compensation would also be respectful.

    Obviously, it will not make everyone happy, whichever path is chosen, but sometimes it comes down to minimizing damage.

    Not sure what you're saying, That it's OK to act immature if it gets what you want. Doesn't change my point that you're still responsible for your own behavior and not CG. Repeating your ideas over and over doesn't move responsibility to CG dev team. I think CG team was benevolent here not because of the forums rashness, but despite the forums rashness.

    I apologize if I didn't make myself clear. I'm not a native English speaker, as you might have noticed.

    I said all it took was a simple and clear answer that CG is still looking into finding a solution, that the opinions expressed here are, at the very least, being read and the fallout ended. Or haven't you noticed?

    By the way, when you go to McDonalds and they give you your order is not because they are "benevolent". It's just their job. They get paid for it, you know.

    And when you go to McDonald's and speak the way some have spoken here to the teller, or just in general to the staff, people dont generally say "it's ok, he has been waiting for his food for a while". They would think it was rude, and maybe they wouldnt step in, but they wouldnt condone it.

    My point has been, if we as a collective kept that (or worked towards that)attitude here, maybe we could raise things up a little bit on our end.

    Ok, now let’s work that McDonald’s example into something that more closely resembles this scenario, because it’s definitely not the same as just waiting for your food.

    Imagine you ordered and paid for a cheeseburger. Now imagine instead of getting said cheeseburger, you were handed a salad, and the staff member says “We’re giving you this salad because we think you need this healthier option”. You, rightfully so, are a little miffed and ask for your correct order or at least a refund. The staff member then turns around to face the kitchen and proceeds to ignore you. Are they even listening? Maybe, but they’re not acknowledging, so you can’t be sure. They definitely don’t appear to be doing anything to rectify or defuse the situation. You’re just left there at the counter staring at a salad you didn’t want or order.

    If I saw all this going on as an impartial observer, I would not fault that customer one bit for getting a little heated or upset over the situation, especially if the staff member continued to keep their back turned and appear to ignore the customer.

    I mean who the heck wants a salad when they were looking forward to that cheeseburger?

    ETA: Now, if I saw the staff member engaging and trying to have a constructive dialogue with the customer to resolve the situation and the customer was still screaming their head off, that’d be a different situation to me. Then they’d be a ****. You seem to think that’s what’s happening here, whereas I see the former scenario.
  • mvs84
    33 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    @mvs84 I didnt delete anything. Please do not comment that I think I am better than you or put your imagined slight on me.

    I am a player just like you, and have never said otherwise. Asking for civility has nothing to do with being better than someone else.
    We dont remove posts that do not violate the Forum Guidelines, if you didnt get a warning, it is likely caught in the spam filter. Please try to be a little more considerate before you act like I am doing something against you.

    As you asked me in the first post I wrote, I am using the Google translator. If something is not well translated or can be interpreted offensively, thank Google.

    My message has been civic. If you have felt offended, I am sorry. In English "you" is the same for one person as for a group. When I said that you (moderators) who have deleted my message, I did not mean you (one person).

    I think you do not understand anything and now I am addressing you.

    The part of believing better than us is because you can not ask for respect or civility, when we have not received that. It has to be on both sides. And that part goes more for those in charge of the game than for the moderators, because I have seen that you are answering every day.

    But what you do many times, perhaps unwittingly, is to insult our intelligence with your answers. Your job is to defend the forum, and it is a commendable job, but you can always defend everything.

    I have not received any warning. Do not tell me that maybe it is in the spam folder because internally, in the forum, there is a courier service.

    With my first post that you deleted, I received an internal notification that this time I did not receive.

    And believe me, I'm being as considerate as I can be.

    It is very easy to ask for things when you are on the other side of the problem, even being a player like you say you are. That being the case, I can not understand what you are defending, but like me, you have your opinion and respect it. Let us have our options, express them and respect them.
  • mvs84
    33 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    Well, it seems that, contrary to what some were defending here, after ONE brief, but informative and suffient reply from CG, there seems to be a much more civilized behavior on everyone's end, doesn't it?

    It takes 2 to tango outside of the choir room. If you often give the other cheek around (aka, being civil and polite even when you are being ignored or disrespected), you are risking getting a second haymaker to your face. Sad real life truth is one has to be rude, from time to time, to get things going.

    Anyways, I am still using Finn on arena, not because I don't have Revan or can't win with him. Simply because of how Finn makes Revan go down fast and batrles don't time out. Ever. Finn is great.

    If CG has determined that Finn must change for the game to keep evolving, I stongly suggest adopting the policy of refunding at least the top end materials to the players - and that goes for every future rework.

    Is a policy like that is implemented, it will show a greater respect for the player base (consumers), who will have the choice of reinvesting the omegas and zetas however they see fit. If refunding gets too complicated to implement (I am an ape, when it comes to coding), than a compensation would also be respectful.

    Obviously, it will not make everyone happy, whichever path is chosen, but sometimes it comes down to minimizing damage.

    Not sure what you're saying, That it's OK to act immature if it gets what you want. Doesn't change my point that you're still responsible for your own behavior and not CG. Repeating your ideas over and over doesn't move responsibility to CG dev team. I think CG team was benevolent here not because of the forums rashness, but despite the forums rashness.

    I apologize if I didn't make myself clear. I'm not a native English speaker, as you might have noticed.

    I said all it took was a simple and clear answer that CG is still looking into finding a solution, that the opinions expressed here are, at the very least, being read and the fallout ended. Or haven't you noticed?

    By the way, when you go to McDonalds and they give you your order is not because they are "benevolent". It's just their job. They get paid for it, you know.

    And when you go to McDonald's and speak the way some have spoken here to the teller, or just in general to the staff, people dont generally say "it's ok, he has been waiting for his food for a while". They would think it was rude, and maybe they wouldnt step in, but they wouldnt condone it.

    My point has been, if we as a collective kept that (or worked towards that)attitude here, maybe we could raise things up a little bit on our end.

    Ok, now let’s work that McDonald’s example into something that more closely resembles this scenario, because it’s definitely not the same as just waiting for your food.

    Imagine you ordered and paid for a cheeseburger. Now imagine instead of getting said cheeseburger, you were handed a salad, and the staff member says “We’re giving you this salad because we think you need this healthier option”. You, rightfully so, are a little miffed and ask for your correct order or at least a refund. The staff member then turns around to face the kitchen and proceeds to ignore you. Are they even listening? Maybe, but they’re not acknowledging, so you can’t be sure. They definitely don’t appear to be doing anything to rectify or defuse the situation. You’re just left there at the counter staring at a salad you didn’t want or order.

    If I saw all this going on as an impartial observer, I would not fault that customer one bit for getting a little heated or upset over the situation, especially if the staff member continued to keep their back turned and appear to ignore the customer.

    I mean who the heck wants a salad when they were looking forward to that cheeseburger?

    ETA: Now, if I saw the staff member engaging and trying to have a constructive dialogue with the customer to resolve the situation and the customer was still screaming his head off, that’d be a different situation to me. Then they’d be a ****. You seem to think that’s what’s happening here, whereas I see the former scenario.

    Great!! Your example is better than my bad fish.

    I do not think anyone can give a better example
  • DuneSeaFarmer
    3475 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Yet another reason to despise The Sith Raid. Welcome to the NGE.
  • mvmss
    213 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    I think what he’s trying to say is- when the player base gets some info from the devs that the rage dies down. Which makes things more civil.

    No matter what it is- if we are truly looking to make this a better place it takes all of us, devs included to fix it.

    Yea the forums can be a dumpster fire and snarky as hell but there has clearly been a lack of communication for a long time here.

    This game is built to make you just frustrated enough to say f it. I’ll buy some purp to make me less frustrated. That resonates here.

    If we are to change the culture here we need to change it from the roots up not just snipping the bud and expect it not to come up again

    The roots are the community.

    It's a game, and they have stated they do many of the things people are asking for, but because they dont say every time, within the timeframe that someone projects "we are listening", the consensus seems to be "rage because they are not listening".

    If someone else's actions can make you do something against "your better judgement ", maybe it's time to step back take a deep breath and gain some perspective on the situation.

    If they don't want feedback, they shouldn't ask for it.
    "It doesn't appear anyone is listening" is feedback, irrespective of your thoughts on its validity.

    When did I say, it's not feedback?

    I said "rage because they are not listening". Feeling like they are not listening despite what they say and then acting on that in an uncivilized way, is in no way the same as saying, " we dont feel like we are being listed to, this is unacceptable and as a customer I would like this to change." < that is feedback.

    Someone raging because they feel they aren't being listened to is also feedback....

    And someone who repeatedly lies or acts in a deceitful fashion is not automatically entitled to civility.

    Indeed.

    By the way, @Kyno and @ImYourHuckleberry nothing personal against either of you. If you are forum moderators, know that I've been on your shoes before, for a couple of years on a forum created and ran by fans of a football (the one named after the action itself, not named after the size of the ball) team in Brazil, where I'm from.

    While it's really important to keep things civil in a discussion, if one feels it's not being heard, he/she will likely increase the tone until said person is heard.

    Don't blame people for being angry. Being angry with changing ZFinn is one thing, being angry on the lack of response is another - both have their own merits, though different causes. One is clearly more avoidable than the other, wouldn't you say? Always keep in mind that respect is earned, not given. If someone feels disrespected, it is not reasonable to expect such person to act on the highest levels of respect.

    On my part, I have expressed my opinion on the changes to Finn, the overall impact on our rosters and the Finn rework/refund/communication part has been addressed by CG. I actually like that they are taking the time to try to do it right, instead of pushing a quick fix that would probably generate more problems than before.

    Now it's time to wait and see. We might like the result or not. There will be emotions and probably harsh comments. That's absolutely normal. People care and they will respond accordingly, in their own way. However, when people stop caring, indifference, that's what should be scary for a business operation.

  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    mvs84 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    @mvs84 I didnt delete anything. Please do not comment that I think I am better than you or put your imagined slight on me.

    I am a player just like you, and have never said otherwise. Asking for civility has nothing to do with being better than someone else.
    We dont remove posts that do not violate the Forum Guidelines, if you didnt get a warning, it is likely caught in the spam filter. Please try to be a little more considerate before you act like I am doing something against you.

    As you asked me in the first post I wrote, I am using the Google translator. If something is not well translated or can be interpreted offensively, thank Google.

    My message has been civic. If you have felt offended, I am sorry. In English "you" is the same for one person as for a group. When I said that you (moderators) who have deleted my message, I did not mean you (one person).

    I think you do not understand anything and now I am addressing you.

    The part of believing better than us is because you can not ask for respect or civility, when we have not received that. It has to be on both sides. And that part goes more for those in charge of the game than for the moderators, because I have seen that you are answering every day.

    But what you do many times, perhaps unwittingly, is to insult our intelligence with your answers. Your job is to defend the forum, and it is a commendable job, but you can always defend everything.

    I have not received any warning. Do not tell me that maybe it is in the spam folder because internally, in the forum, there is a courier service.

    With my first post that you deleted, I received an internal notification that this time I did not receive.

    And believe me, I'm being as considerate as I can be.

    It is very easy to ask for things when you are on the other side of the problem, even being a player like you say you are. That being the case, I can not understand what you are defending, but like me, you have your opinion and respect it. Let us have our options, express them and respect them.

    Since I believe you are saying you do not believe me it is in the spam filter, I check and restored it for you (I didnt before because you reposted).

    Your post was not deleted, it was picked up by the filter. No you do not always get messages saying so. Again, I ask that if you feel that anyone of the volunteer mod team has slighted you or is targeting you by deleting your content without proper messaging, please feel free to message CG_SBCrumb and speak with him directly. That is not a discussion for the open forum, as it is against the Forum Guidelines to discuss moderation.
  • ...and by extension the spam filter. I cannot measure how much I dislike it. I have been caught by it soooooo many times.
  • mvs84
    33 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    Kyno wrote: »
    mvs84 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    @mvs84 I didnt delete anything. Please do not comment that I think I am better than you or put your imagined slight on me.

    I am a player just like you, and have never said otherwise. Asking for civility has nothing to do with being better than someone else.
    We dont remove posts that do not violate the Forum Guidelines, if you didnt get a warning, it is likely caught in the spam filter. Please try to be a little more considerate before you act like I am doing something against you.

    As you asked me in the first post I wrote, I am using the Google translator. If something is not well translated or can be interpreted offensively, thank Google.

    My message has been civic. If you have felt offended, I am sorry. In English "you" is the same for one person as for a group. When I said that you (moderators) who have deleted my message, I did not mean you (one person).

    I think you do not understand anything and now I am addressing you.

    The part of believing better than us is because you can not ask for respect or civility, when we have not received that. It has to be on both sides. And that part goes more for those in charge of the game than for the moderators, because I have seen that you are answering every day.

    But what you do many times, perhaps unwittingly, is to insult our intelligence with your answers. Your job is to defend the forum, and it is a commendable job, but you can always defend everything.

    I have not received any warning. Do not tell me that maybe it is in the spam folder because internally, in the forum, there is a courier service.

    With my first post that you deleted, I received an internal notification that this time I did not receive.

    And believe me, I'm being as considerate as I can be.

    It is very easy to ask for things when you are on the other side of the problem, even being a player like you say you are. That being the case, I can not understand what you are defending, but like me, you have your opinion and respect it. Let us have our options, express them and respect them.

    Since I believe you are saying you do not believe me it is in the spam filter, I check and restored it for you (I didnt before because you reposted).

    Your post was not deleted, it was picked up by the filter. No you do not always get messages saying so. Again, I ask that if you feel that anyone of the volunteer mod team has slighted you or is targeting you by deleting your content without proper messaging, please feel free to message CG_SBCrumb and speak with him directly. That is not a discussion for the open forum, as it is against the Forum Guidelines to discuss moderation.

    Ok, your spam filter, not my email spam filter. It's not the same.

    I do not know why he has entered that filter, I modified the number of pages (46 to 47) and a couple of sentences that did not seem well translated by Google. But nothing offensive.

    That being the case, I withdraw what I said about erasing my message and I apologize. It's honest to say I'm sorry.

    Nor have I said that I feel offended to delete my message. For complaints of that kind I already write to official EA as I did when my message was deleted because it was written in Spanish and was a forum only for English speaking people, but that is another issue.

    The only thing I wanted to say is that you can not ask for respect when you do not give respect (Those in charge of the game, not you personally). And I repeat, not on your part because you are every day answering the post.

    And we should not be talking about respect, neither you nor me, we should be talking about the problem, Finn, which is the subject of the forum.

    Anyway, you should not delete any message, even written in a rude way. It is a forum of the game, which should cover all the players in the world and being so big, there are opinions of all types. These rude messages express the real discontent of the users. Some of us try to explain it correctly, but in the right way, our feelings are not expressed as well. In writing it is very difficult to interpret how the person feels when writing it and many times being rude, it is the only way, especially when one is ignored.

  • I think what he’s trying to say is- when the player base gets some info from the devs that the rage dies down. Which makes things more civil.

    No matter what it is- if we are truly looking to make this a better place it takes all of us, devs included to fix it.

    Yea the forums can be a dumpster fire and snarky as hell but there has clearly been a lack of communication for a long time here.

    This game is built to make you just frustrated enough to say f it. I’ll buy some purp to make me less frustrated. That resonates here.

    If we are to change the culture here we need to change it from the roots up not just snipping the bud and expect it not to come up again

    I am one insignificant person on the vast web, but I have a goal is to help facilitate a better experience for everyone on the forum; therefore my persistence in dialoguing about this issue.

    I think there needs to be a bit of soul searching IMHO. Communication by the devs and snarky behavior are 2 completely separate things. I understand your need to 'blame' CG team for 'your' (generic pronoun) snarky behavior, but my point is you can't. The forum has only itself to blame for snarky uncivilized behavior.

    It's a challenge to the forums to be more creative in their response to get their frustration expressed. I am not saying don't be emotional, don't be mad, don't be angry, don't be human.

    I am saying don't make it personal, don't be mean, remember we're all human, and we all love this game, we're all in this together. We're not enemies.

    Again, please accept my challenge to push yourselves to be creative in your responses expressing your frustration.

    Now the forums are complex, and it is not one size fits all. So if the shoe fits, wear it as they say. If not, then let my challenge reaffirm the goodwill of humanity.

    I believe in people, and because I do, I challenge people to believe in themselves. That's all.

    Ps. Life is not black & white. It's is gray. I'll I speak in absolutes, reality is not so clean cut.

    Cheers!

    I always say it’s not black and white but full of colors just like life :)
    Cheers to you!

    The main point I’m trying to push is that it takes us all.

    I’ll jpin you in this quest. Nothing personal here. I’m all about making the community a better place.
    Kyno wrote: »
    I think what he’s trying to say is- when the player base gets some info from the devs that the rage dies down. Which makes things more civil.

    No matter what it is- if we are truly looking to make this a better place it takes all of us, devs included to fix it.

    Yea the forums can be a dumpster fire and snarky as hell but there has clearly been a lack of communication for a long time here.

    This game is built to make you just frustrated enough to say f it. I’ll buy some purp to make me less frustrated. That resonates here.

    If we are to change the culture here we need to change it from the roots up not just snipping the bud and expect it not to come up again

    The roots are the community.

    It's a game, and they have stated they do many of the things people are asking for, but because they dont say every time, within the timeframe that someone projects "we are listening", the consensus seems to be "rage because they are not listening".

    If someone else's actions can make you do something against "your better judgement ", maybe it's time to step back take a deep breath and gain some perspective on the situation.

    That’s not totally correct and not totally wrong either. I’m just saying to fix it it has to be from everyone. Devs included.
  • mvs84 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    mvs84 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    @mvs84 I didnt delete anything. Please do not comment that I think I am better than you or put your imagined slight on me.

    I am a player just like you, and have never said otherwise. Asking for civility has nothing to do with being better than someone else.
    We dont remove posts that do not violate the Forum Guidelines, if you didnt get a warning, it is likely caught in the spam filter. Please try to be a little more considerate before you act like I am doing something against you.

    As you asked me in the first post I wrote, I am using the Google translator. If something is not well translated or can be interpreted offensively, thank Google.

    My message has been civic. If you have felt offended, I am sorry. In English "you" is the same for one person as for a group. When I said that you (moderators) who have deleted my message, I did not mean you (one person).

    I think you do not understand anything and now I am addressing you.

    The part of believing better than us is because you can not ask for respect or civility, when we have not received that. It has to be on both sides. And that part goes more for those in charge of the game than for the moderators, because I have seen that you are answering every day.

    But what you do many times, perhaps unwittingly, is to insult our intelligence with your answers. Your job is to defend the forum, and it is a commendable job, but you can always defend everything.

    I have not received any warning. Do not tell me that maybe it is in the spam folder because internally, in the forum, there is a courier service.

    With my first post that you deleted, I received an internal notification that this time I did not receive.

    And believe me, I'm being as considerate as I can be.

    It is very easy to ask for things when you are on the other side of the problem, even being a player like you say you are. That being the case, I can not understand what you are defending, but like me, you have your opinion and respect it. Let us have our options, express them and respect them.

    Since I believe you are saying you do not believe me it is in the spam filter, I check and restored it for you (I didnt before because you reposted).

    Your post was not deleted, it was picked up by the filter. No you do not always get messages saying so. Again, I ask that if you feel that anyone of the volunteer mod team has slighted you or is targeting you by deleting your content without proper messaging, please feel free to message CG_SBCrumb and speak with him directly. That is not a discussion for the open forum, as it is against the Forum Guidelines to discuss moderation.

    Ok, your spam filter, not my email spam filter. It's not the same.

    I do not know why he has entered that filter, I modified the number of pages (46 to 47) and a couple of sentences that did not seem well translated by Google. But nothing offensive.

    That being the case, I withdraw what I said about erasing my message and I apologize. It's honest to say I'm sorry.

    Nor have I said that I feel offended to delete my message. For complaints of that kind I already write to official EA as I did when my message was deleted because it was written in Spanish and was a forum only for English speaking people, but that is another issue.

    The only thing I wanted to say is that you can not ask for respect when you do not give respect (Those in charge of the game, not you personally). And I repeat, not on your part because you are every day answering the post.

    And we should not be talking about respect, neither you nor me, we should be talking about the problem, Finn, which is the subject of the forum.

    Anyway, you should not delete any message, even written in a rude way. It is a forum of the game, which should cover all the players in the world and being so big, there are opinions of all types. These rude messages express the real discontent of the users. Some of us try to explain it correctly, but in the right way, our feelings are not expressed as well. In writing it is very difficult to interpret how the person feels when writing it and many times being rude, it is the only way, especially when one is ignored.

    The Spam filter operates on a timer and number of edits I believe. If you post, edit, post, edit, you will get caught in it. As for Kyno, I may not always agree with him, but he is a pretty fair guy. Given the history of the moderators here since the game started, he's one of the better ones. He doesn't just spout the corporate line and act like a robot.
  • mvs84
    33 posts Member
    mvs84 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    mvs84 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    @mvs84 I didnt delete anything. Please do not comment that I think I am better than you or put your imagined slight on me.

    I am a player just like you, and have never said otherwise. Asking for civility has nothing to do with being better than someone else.
    We dont remove posts that do not violate the Forum Guidelines, if you didnt get a warning, it is likely caught in the spam filter. Please try to be a little more considerate before you act like I am doing something against you.

    As you asked me in the first post I wrote, I am using the Google translator. If something is not well translated or can be interpreted offensively, thank Google.

    My message has been civic. If you have felt offended, I am sorry. In English "you" is the same for one person as for a group. When I said that you (moderators) who have deleted my message, I did not mean you (one person).

    I think you do not understand anything and now I am addressing you.

    The part of believing better than us is because you can not ask for respect or civility, when we have not received that. It has to be on both sides. And that part goes more for those in charge of the game than for the moderators, because I have seen that you are answering every day.

    But what you do many times, perhaps unwittingly, is to insult our intelligence with your answers. Your job is to defend the forum, and it is a commendable job, but you can always defend everything.

    I have not received any warning. Do not tell me that maybe it is in the spam folder because internally, in the forum, there is a courier service.

    With my first post that you deleted, I received an internal notification that this time I did not receive.

    And believe me, I'm being as considerate as I can be.

    It is very easy to ask for things when you are on the other side of the problem, even being a player like you say you are. That being the case, I can not understand what you are defending, but like me, you have your opinion and respect it. Let us have our options, express them and respect them.

    Since I believe you are saying you do not believe me it is in the spam filter, I check and restored it for you (I didnt before because you reposted).

    Your post was not deleted, it was picked up by the filter. No you do not always get messages saying so. Again, I ask that if you feel that anyone of the volunteer mod team has slighted you or is targeting you by deleting your content without proper messaging, please feel free to message CG_SBCrumb and speak with him directly. That is not a discussion for the open forum, as it is against the Forum Guidelines to discuss moderation.

    Ok, your spam filter, not my email spam filter. It's not the same.

    I do not know why he has entered that filter, I modified the number of pages (46 to 47) and a couple of sentences that did not seem well translated by Google. But nothing offensive.

    That being the case, I withdraw what I said about erasing my message and I apologize. It's honest to say I'm sorry.

    Nor have I said that I feel offended to delete my message. For complaints of that kind I already write to official EA as I did when my message was deleted because it was written in Spanish and was a forum only for English speaking people, but that is another issue.

    The only thing I wanted to say is that you can not ask for respect when you do not give respect (Those in charge of the game, not you personally). And I repeat, not on your part because you are every day answering the post.

    And we should not be talking about respect, neither you nor me, we should be talking about the problem, Finn, which is the subject of the forum.

    Anyway, you should not delete any message, even written in a rude way. It is a forum of the game, which should cover all the players in the world and being so big, there are opinions of all types. These rude messages express the real discontent of the users. Some of us try to explain it correctly, but in the right way, our feelings are not expressed as well. In writing it is very difficult to interpret how the person feels when writing it and many times being rude, it is the only way, especially when one is ignored.

    The Spam filter operates on a timer and number of edits I believe. If you post, edit, post, edit, you will get caught in it. As for Kyno, I may not always agree with him, but he is a pretty fair guy. Given the history of the moderators here since the game started, he's one of the better ones. He doesn't just spout the corporate line and act like a robot.

    It's possible, i don't how the forum works internally. Because of this, i said i'm sorry. I congratulate @Kyno for doing this being a simple gamer and not and employee of EA. But for this, he or she (i don't know if is a man or a woman) don't know the internal conversations of developers about the problem. He or she could especulate about they are talking or thinking. What we wanted it's a response by the developers, who really known the internal conversations. But i have to say that the examples that @Kyno write to the users, maybe are not the best examples in the world and sometime throw fuel to the fire. As a moderator, @Kyno is doing his/her job, but ask for civility for us when developers ignore us... All rude comments goes for developers, not for moderators, at least that they don't offend in any way to user.
  • DeWannaWonga
    122 posts Member
    edited March 2019
    How about they drop the puzzle already so we can talk about something else?? I wouldn’t even care anymore if I don’t get Finn zeta back if we could get some kind of puzzle or news of what’s coming. We need something else to talk about is part of the issue. If the Ebon Hawk was destroying the falcon perhaps we’d be talking about it. But we need some material.
    Post edited by DeWannaWonga on
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    mvmss wrote: »
    Well, it seems that, contrary to what some were defending here, after ONE brief, but informative and suffient reply from CG, there seems to be a much more civilized behavior on everyone's end, doesn't it?

    It takes 2 to tango outside of the choir room. If you often give the other cheek around (aka, being civil and polite even when you are being ignored or disrespected), you are risking getting a second haymaker to your face. Sad real life truth is one has to be rude, from time to time, to get things going.

    Anyways, I am still using Finn on arena, not because I don't have Revan or can't win with him. Simply because of how Finn makes Revan go down fast and batrles don't time out. Ever. Finn is great.

    If CG has determined that Finn must change for the game to keep evolving, I stongly suggest adopting the policy of refunding at least the top end materials to the players - and that goes for every future rework.

    Is a policy like that is implemented, it will show a greater respect for the player base (consumers), who will have the choice of reinvesting the omegas and zetas however they see fit. If refunding gets too complicated to implement (I am an ape, when it comes to coding), than a compensation would also be respectful.

    Obviously, it will not make everyone happy, whichever path is chosen, but sometimes it comes down to minimizing damage.

    Not sure what you're saying, That it's OK to act immature if it gets what you want. Doesn't change my point that you're still responsible for your own behavior and not CG. Repeating your ideas over and over doesn't move responsibility to CG dev team. I think CG team was benevolent here not because of the forums rashness, but despite the forums rashness.

    I apologize if I didn't make myself clear. I'm not a native English speaker, as you might have noticed.

    I said all it took was a simple and clear answer that CG is still looking into finding a solution, that the opinions expressed here are, at the very least, being read and the fallout ended. Or haven't you noticed?

    By the way, when you go to McDonalds and they give you your order is not because they are "benevolent". It's just their job. They get paid for it, you know.

    And when you go to McDonald's and speak the way some have spoken here to the teller, or just in general to the staff, people dont generally say "it's ok, he has been waiting for his food for a while". They would think it was rude, and maybe they wouldnt step in, but they wouldnt condone it.

    My point has been, if we as a collective kept that (or worked towards that)attitude here, maybe we could raise things up a little bit on our end.

    Ok, now let’s work that McDonald’s example into something that more closely resembles this scenario, because it’s definitely not the same as just waiting for your food.

    Imagine you ordered and paid for a cheeseburger. Now imagine instead of getting said cheeseburger, you were handed a salad, and the staff member says “We’re giving you this salad because we think you need this healthier option”. You, rightfully so, are a little miffed and ask for your correct order or at least a refund. The staff member then turns around to face the kitchen and proceeds to ignore you. Are they even listening? Maybe, but they’re not acknowledging, so you can’t be sure. They definitely don’t appear to be doing anything to rectify or defuse the situation. You’re just left there at the counter staring at a salad you didn’t want or order.

    If I saw all this going on as an impartial observer, I would not fault that customer one bit for getting a little heated or upset over the situation, especially if the staff member continued to keep their back turned and appear to ignore the customer.

    I mean who the heck wants a salad when they were looking forward to that cheeseburger?

    ETA: Now, if I saw the staff member engaging and trying to have a constructive dialogue with the customer to resolve the situation and the customer was still screaming their head off, that’d be a different situation to me. Then they’d be a ****. You seem to think that’s what’s happening here, whereas I see the former scenario.

    Many of the comments trying to justify people being uncivil, have expressed that "it's ok" because a certain amount of time passed and they have not recieved any acknowledgement of thier feedback.

    That is what this discussion has been about, and what I have been trying to address. So yes, I do think the reference I have made was appropriate.

    At no point has anyone turned their back on this situation, that is a perception based on a "they should have commented" by now sentiment. It is unfortunate that people feel this way, but that doesnt make it true.
    In your scenario they are making a judgment based on what I would consider "off" of the current situation.

    To me this would be more akin to them bringing out a different sandwich, and stating that they did this because they ran out of burgers (an actual reason why the change was necessary), but they brought you a Turkey burger, because it is similar to what you ordered.

    In either scenario, I dont disagree that the restaurant should try to make this right, and that I am aloud to be unhappy, and even ask to speak to someone in charge to remedy this situation. At no point do I have any right to be uncivil to the person bringing me my food, or the person who made this substitution with out asking me, or even the manager who is in charge of the whole place. I am well within my rights to want to express myself and my displeasure, but there is no reason to make this a personal attack on anyone "on the other side" of this situation.

    I believe have been very clear that I am in no way asking people to not express displeasure or any feedback, but we as a collective should strive to make the feedback in a constructive manner and try to treat people with a certain level of civility. If someone else's action are driving you to the point that you dont feel you can be civil, I was suggesting that they take a step back and try to gain some perspective on the situation. Trying to blame the dev team for our actions is not right, we are all in control of our own actions.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    Who was it that said the devs commenting settled things down?

    Yeah, that didn't last.
    Still not a he.
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Who was it that said the devs commenting settled things down?

    Yeah, that didn't last.

    Things seem pretty civil in here to me? So are we just not supposed to discuss anything?
  • Gorem
    1190 posts Member
    By the way, show me one instance on these forums where CG team ever responded to uncivility. If that ever garnered a response it probably was most likely a warning.

    Man I am glad and hope you are not involved with HR/PR in a business. This is like, literally the reason to respond. Only responding to positive feedback means you are a weak person.
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Who was it that said the devs commenting settled things down?

    Yeah, that didn't last.

    LOL. It's a mod and posters having a kitty fight, there's been minimal amount of whining about CG since theyve responded and elaborated more on the situation.

    Tell them to take their personal tirades out of this thread and it gets a whole lot calmer
  • To be honest, I largely feel Kyno and co inflame things more by taking the thread off topic and into some irrelevant discussion about when it is or isn't ok to be uncivil to someone.

    This
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
    If they care about what community wants why not put up a vote poll.

    a. Leave Finn alone modify interaction in HSTR
    b. Change Finn based on proposed changes.
    b1. return zeta
    b2. no zeta refund

    Pretty simple poll and there would be no perception that CG is not listening and not having a clue of what the community wants.
    Because that's a terrible idea.

    Mob rule is not leadership. The playerbase is inherently biased. The player base is not composed of professional game designers.

    Finn's leadership zeta as it currently exists is unhealthy for the game and for Resistance as a faction. It's healthier for the game for Finn's lead to change, regardless of how popular or unpopular a decision is, and oftentimes the responsible decision is not the popular one.

    Caring about feedback and going along with mob rule are not remotely the same thing.
    Still not a he.
  • YaeVizsla wrote: »
    If they care about what community wants why not put up a vote poll.

    a. Leave Finn alone modify interaction in HSTR
    b. Change Finn based on proposed changes.
    b1. return zeta
    b2. no zeta refund

    Pretty simple poll and there would be no perception that CG is not listening and not having a clue of what the community wants.
    Because that's a terrible idea.

    Mob rule is not leadership. The playerbase is inherently biased. The player base is not composed of professional game designers.

    Finn's leadership zeta as it currently exists is unhealthy for the game and for Resistance as a faction. It's healthier for the game for Finn's lead to change, regardless of how popular or unpopular a decision is, and oftentimes the responsible decision is not the popular one.

    Caring about feedback and going along with mob rule are not remotely the same thing.

    This is well said. And a great argument for the change. I’m in for the refund though. Even though I’ll make him keep it.
This discussion has been closed.