I dont get whats the probelm to be honest. If you think simming rancor is a bad choice, don't sim rancor. If your guild wants to sim rancor, that guild is not for you, find another guild.
Democracy? I'm leader of my guild and if I want to do it manually then I will just launch a manual one. That said its 15 mins on auto that I will never get back.
Auto doesn't require that you sit over it and watch or it stops. I auto rancor while taking a dump, playing other games on PC, driving my car, taking a shower, eating food, watching TV or YouTube. Saying you're not getting your 15 minutes back is an exaggeration
Democracy? I'm leader of my guild and if I want to do it manually then I will just launch a manual one. That said its 15 mins on auto that I will never get back.
Auto doesn't require that you sit over it and watch or it stops. I auto rancor while taking a dump, playing other games on PC, driving my car, taking a shower, eating food, watching TV or YouTube. Saying you're not getting your 15 minutes back is an exaggeration
Yes I can put it down, but then it means talking to my wife
@No_Try dude every time I read that article I want to laugh. Statements like the extra 630,000 credits are a drop in the ocean and even though the entire guild earns less credits as a whole, because the distribution is even it makes it worth? Or gear depends on RNG and therefore it doesn't really matter if you get more because you may not get the desired pieces. So earning less increases the chance of getting desired pieces? That doesn't follow, more gear=higher chance to receive desirable pieces. And then the grande conclusion, the extra shard shop currency makes it all worth!
So explain how half a shipment every 2 days is worth less credits, less guild currency, less gear salvages. I'll wait
I just asked you a factual question, didn't get an answer. Ok.
My friend you didn't give me enough time to answer as I was typing my previous comment still. I did answer to you, the thing is all of these people, and you, forget to factor in the contribution of the individual. All members do not put in the same effort in the team modes and that's just a fact. More gear in the hands of those who contribute less and less gear in the hands of those who contribute more is not going to help the guild even if the numbers say otherwise. Because none of these charts can accurately predict and implement dedication and individual performance. If you're the type of human being who is more productive, and you participate more in team events, you are more likely to make time for a rancor solo. If you are the type who slacks in team events you're more likely not to give a **** for rancor. This is a fact of reality that numbers simply cannot accurately calculate but the smart devs know this because they are humans and they understand how humans work
Doesn't matter. A vague idea of equivalance of outcomes based on performance is your obsession, not ours. We apply it with the ruleset in a much more loose but eventually definite manner.
Let's put it this way, if this game was a competitive sport with real money prizes on the line, I would definitely correlate performance and effort with outcome and I certainly wouldn't want to handicap my best performers so I can give a slight boost to the ones who perform alot worse. I guess it's preference, some coaches like to give their star players more responsibility and time on the court, other coaches believe that the subs need more time, like I said whatever works best for your guild, but like I told you before, in the wrong hands this is a tool that's too dangerous
Democracy? I'm leader of my guild and if I want to do it manually then I will just launch a manual one. That said its 15 mins on auto that I will never get back.
Auto doesn't require that you sit over it and watch or it stops. I auto rancor while taking a dump, playing other games on PC, driving my car, taking a shower, eating food, watching TV or YouTube. Saying you're not getting your 15 minutes back is an exaggeration
Yes I can put it down, but then it means talking to my wife
Lol well it seems to me that this problem is beyond rancor's reach although if you are simming it then you are still not doing anything and you gotta talk to your wife anyways?
Your guild receives better rewards total when simming, while also saving time.
Coincidentally it happens that those who are active on soloing raids are the same people who carry others in TW and TB, the same people who pulled the weight of others when the guild was struggling to get HSTR done. Some people just care and others don't care as much, hard to see the ones who care get less and those who care less receive more
But still your guild as a whole receives better rewards, which give your guild a better chance at performinh better in guild events.
You keep throwing this out there when it's not true. "The whole guild receives better rewards total when simming".
That's not what I wrote. "The guild as a whole" and "the whole guild" are not the same thing. Please be accurate. Twisting my words like this is not serious debate.
I am perfectly aware, that the rewards for simming are less than the rewards, that top-ranking players would receive when not simming.
But yes, the guild as a whole wins better rewards when simming Rancor raids compared to manual play (assuming it's a near complete/full guild) - wether you like it or not.
It's also extremely entertaining when people call me selfish in the forum when my guild doesn't even have a 600 ticket requirement, some people we're lucky if they get 500. Which is another issue that people overlook, some people are assuming everyone gets 600 tickets every day, which simply isn't even true. Loads of players don't get even 500 or 550, and although that's an issue within the guild to be solved by its own members, the reality is that everyone has different reasons for saying stuff that aren't always because they are selfish. And I even mentioned above that I am all for same rewards for all members but definitely not if they are going to pull that from the middle of the pack instead of the top.
They want give everyone same top rewards. That's not how a progression game works and it also decreases the money spend on gear. Clear NO from CG and understandable.
And yes, people not bringing 600 is your guilds issue. All top guilds have a 600 rule, so all deserve same rewards, even if they register with 0. Try to accomplish raid tickets alone. Takes some time.
There are many points for equalizing rewards and one for not, thats selfishness.
We already have 2 modes that reward all members with identical rewards even though they depend alo more on individual performance (TB and TW)
When simming, your results don't depend on individual performance. Tge only thing that matters is (from a guild perspective) that everybody joins. There's no performance other than this.
Democracy? I'm leader of my guild and if I want to do it manually then I will just launch a manual one. That said its 15 mins on auto that I will never get back.
Auto doesn't require that you sit over it and watch or it stops. I auto rancor while taking a dump, playing other games on PC, driving my car, taking a shower, eating food, watching TV or YouTube. Saying you're not getting your 15 minutes back is an exaggeration
Yes I can put it down, but then it means talking to my wife
Lol well it seems to me that this problem is beyond rancor's reach although if you are simming it then you are still not doing anything and you gotta talk to your wife anyways?
Your basic problem (a large number of guild members not performing in guild events in general) is beyond the Rancor's reach as well. Furthermore, noone can solve your problem with your guild officers' decisions to sim. Disregarding what the outcome of this discussion is, it's all up to your officers.
In all seriousness, if someone said they wanted to do a manual hpit in the guild, then I would launch the next one as a manual one. No one has yet, but we are monitoring rewards
@Waqui I know exactly what you said and I understand the difference between the two statements and I still stand by what I said. You're still making an assumption that helping out the bottom players by reducing the rewards of the top players will make a guild stronger as a whole because byou compare flat numbers. You compare the top 20 to the bottom 30 and it seems obvious to you that 30>20 therefore it makes sense. However you don't take into account that the top 20 in terms of performance in other game modes like TW and TB which are the only modes in the game where guild power even matters, is disproportionate. Disproportionate is the key word, you don't get the same performance or effort from all 50 members, so contribute more and some contribute less. A gear piece going to the most active player in a guild can yield more fruits than the same piece going to the least active player of that guild. So when I was speaking about performance I wasn't referring to the rancor raid but the team modes where activity and contribution matters on individual level. The only performance that can be measured on rancor, at least in guilds that not very new to the game, is simply how often you show up. By now I'm assuming that most players have CLS, or at least has they're shot at getting him, that's all you need really to solo rancor so pretty much the vast majority of players are capable of doing that.
Perhaps I need to move to a different guild, the thing that bothers me is that this is not how people should deal with their problems. If the answer to any guild related dispute is simply "go to another guild" then you're never going to get to solve anything. This is the attitude people have when they are not willing to try for a change but they are defeated and run away like a dog with it's tail under it's legs. I know perfectly well that sooner or later I may be forced to look for a different guild if this situation continues but this doesn't mean that I don't get to defend players who are in the same minority as I am, who are facing yet another exodus from changes to the game that were out if their control. This ties to my first few sentences, democracy is by nature oppressive because majority rules and it can impose it's will on the minority. Top contributors are a minority the way reward tiers are shaped. Too bad guilds don't have Constitutions.
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Perhaps I need to move to a different guild, the thing that bothers me is that this is not how people should deal with their problems. If the answer to any guild related dispute is simply "go to another guild" then you're never going to get to solve anything. This is the attitude people have when they are not willing to try for a change but they are defeated and run away like a dog with it's tail under it's legs. I know perfectly well that sooner or later I may be forced to look for a different guild if this situation continues but this doesn't mean that I don't get to defend players who are in the same minority as I am, who are facing yet another exodus from changes to the game that were out if their control. This ties to my first few sentences, democracy is by nature oppressive because majority rules and it can impose it's will on the minority. Top contributors are a minority the way reward tiers are shaped. Too bad guilds don't have Constitutions.
There answer to most guild related issues is assuredly not, "go to the forums and rant." Talk to your guild. Make your opinion heard. Become an officer of you want more influence. Simming the raids is just a tool. It's not forced on any guild and use of it in your guild may be by democratic choice. Nobody here can help you change that.
For context, I'm an officer in a 140M GP guild that still runs hPit manually.
We are yet to see if simming the Rancor benefits the players or not. Once there is enough data collected, we can make an assessment. I personally believe though that it wholly benefits EA/CG, similar to the way the removal of Challenge gear from the Raids was supposed to benefit the players. I see it as a short to term gain for a long term loss...
Maybe others aren't strong enough to contribute much? Maybe these others don't have the suitable squads geared up enough? The world isn't all black-and-white mate.
And guilds were made to help EVERYONE get stronger and that includes the weaker members.
Well I can't do anything about people's focuses and I don't blame them either, I'm just saying they should go through what everyone does if they are interested in the top tier rewards.
I'll give you an example, my imperial troopers are very strong, for a while now me and a few others are completing the IPD mission and some of us sometimes even beat the tier 6 special mission which is insanely hard. I've tracked the progress on those missions for a while now and I have seen very little progress by other members. I don't blame them, the past year has been rough with all the panic farms so that's understandable. However few other and I are contributing every time while others don't. I never said a word to those people cause I don't want to pressure them, but if they really cared about their account's progress they could show up and solo the rancor instead of posting 0s. Yeah not everything is black and white
You're in the wrong guild.
Why should anyone focus on troopers just to help you get those shards, when they have other prioritys.
And why do you think everyone has to solo that **** raid.
Ex. I don't have solo team for rancor. If I put up any damage the raid is already dead when I finish. I better don't do it at all when we have a lot if players who can solo it.
P.s. you say you understand things, but as I see you are just a selfish player who is bother by helping unwillingly other guild mates.
At some point someone carried you too the the point where you are.
Do you realize what you just did? You essentially reinforced my argument. "Why should anyone focus on troopers to help you get those shards". This statement contains not 1 but 2 elements that help my argument.
1. Troopers, apart from being required for IPD mission which is a maximum of 100 shards per TB, they are also required for the stage 6 special mission which is a ton of guild event currency. And furthermore they are a great counter to nightsisters which is one of the best defensive squads for TW, which often determine the result. A wall of nightsisters can win a TW if the other guild wastes meta squads to get past them. Troopers is an off meta squad that can succeed greatly and help your guild win TW. So by not working on them it is you who is ultimately being the selfish player and not I who have my troopers well developed.
2. You said why should they help me with the shards. One of the biggest cases for simming rancor and in fact key point to the article linked above in support of simming, is the additional Han Solo shards. They act as though the shard shop currency outweighs credits and guild currency. With your statement you've literally destroyed the argument for simming, especially since 100 IPD shards equals 10 rancor raids worth of shards. So if shard shop currency is as important as you claim, how dare you say that I am the selfish player when I worked on my Imperial Troopers and others did not?
Lastly, if you don't have a solo team for rancor then you're either extremely new or you simply don't know what you're talking about. There are far too many ways to solo the rancor that don't even include CLS, Revan can do it, Rey can do it, Vader can do it, Jun erso can do it. You have no excuse and if you can't solo it with this many available ways then you deserve the minimum amount of rewards you can get from it ( assuming you aren't a new player with unreasonable standards).
In all seriousness, if someone said they wanted to do a manual hpit in the guild, then I would launch the next one as a manual one. No one has yet, but we are monitoring rewards
I guess it would also depend on how many people in your guild used to show up to solo it prior to simming it. If your guild was extremely active and you had 25-30 people soloing it, they could just take the best of two evils and accept the sim , since it's heartbreaking to solo manually and get 20+. My guild didn't get too many solos and thus I have a different perspective on the issue
Yeah everyone in my guild can solo it. Spending 15 mins to just get 25 can be a bit demoralising
Everyone in my guild can solo it as well, it's just that not many people cared. Most were happy with a 0 since you could earn full pieces even in the 30s and sometimes in the 40s. But yeah that explains it, if you're gonna get 20+ with a solo you might as well not even bother, still I think they could do better with these rewards, too many shards and too little of everything else
Yeah everyone in my guild can solo it. Spending 15 mins to just get 25 can be a bit demoralising
Everyone in my guild can solo it as well, it's just that not many people cared. Most were happy with a 0 since you could earn full pieces even in the 30s and sometimes in the 40s. But yeah that explains it, if you're gonna get 20+ with a solo you might as well not even bother, still I think they could do better with these rewards, too many shards and too little of everything else
Attempt 3; have you checked the totals at the bottom of the table?
Yeah everyone in my guild can solo it. Spending 15 mins to just get 25 can be a bit demoralising
Everyone in my guild can solo it as well, it's just that not many people cared. Most were happy with a 0 since you could earn full pieces even in the 30s and sometimes in the 40s. But yeah that explains it, if you're gonna get 20+ with a solo you might as well not even bother, still I think they could do better with these rewards, too many shards and too little of everything else
Attempt 3; have you checked the totals at the bottom of the table?
Yes the totals are higher as a result of the redistribution but like I said before you're handicapping the top 15 severely
You lost me at “democracy is a very oppressive system”
🤦🏻♂️. He's talking about true democracies rather than what you are probably thinking a republic democracy. In a purely democratic society the majority rules in all cases. Thus subjecting the minority to potentially cataclysmic laws or persecution through majority will. A republic democracy "think the United States" has a constitution that limits democratic powers so the minority has a voice. I hope you educate yourself on the differences.
A republic democracy is also an oppressive system. Basically any powerstructure or decesion making system is oppressive by default.
You're probably arguing on principle, but you're basically saying being able to play the rancor manually should be a constitutional right in a republic democracy.
The use of the phrase "democracy is a very oppresive system" in this context is utterly ridiculous and eventhough you can defend it by saying a republic democracy is less oppresive doesn't make a true democracy "very" oppressive, nor does it make it any less ridiculous in the context it's being used.
Your guild receives better rewards total when simming, while also saving time.
Coincidentally it happens that those who are active on soloing raids are the same people who carry others in TW and TB, the same people who pulled the weight of others when the guild was struggling to get HSTR done. Some people just care and others don't care as much, hard to see the ones who care get less and those who care less receive more
This is starting to sound more like a guild problem than an issue with the raid.
If you are in a guild that is less committed than you are, you would definitely see simming as worse than soloing.
I believe the number was around 25-30, if that or more people solo then it's better for all to sim.
You seem to have a guild that is not performing up to your level of commitment and this is making you see the simming as a bad system. I would suggest you maybe look around if this is what you see. There are many guilds out there where soloing, meant the possibility of rank 40, and there is no worries about someone carrying anyone else in any other events.
@Waqui I know exactly what you said and I understand the difference between the two statements and I still stand by what I said. You're still making an assumption that helping out the bottom players by reducing the rewards of the top players will make a guild stronger as a whole because byou compare flat numbers.
That's not what I claimed either. Stop this nonsense of yours. If you want a serious debate - I'll happily debate with out.
My guild has 40-50 people who can sim the raid in auto. There’s no skill involved. The top 10 are completely random. It doesn’t oppress anybody it just makes sure everyone gets more rewards
Sorry to go slightly sideways on the subject, but I find it odd that you say the sim system is oppressive when your argument is that you seemingly want to oppress the "lesser" members of your guild so you can get better rewards in the raid, because you do more in other events.
You lost me at “democracy is a very oppressive system”
🤦🏻♂️. He's talking about true democracies rather than what you are probably thinking a republic democracy. In a purely democratic society the majority rules in all cases. Thus subjecting the minority to potentially cataclysmic laws or persecution through majority will. A republic democracy "think the United States" has a constitution that limits democratic powers so the minority has a voice. I hope you educate yourself on the differences.
A republic democracy is also an oppressive system. Basically any powerstructure or decesion making system is oppressive by default.
You're probably arguing on principle, but you're basically saying being able to play the rancor manually should be a constitutional right in a republic democracy.
The use of the phrase "democracy is a very oppresive system" in this context is utterly ridiculous and eventhough you can defend it by saying a republic democracy is less oppresive doesn't make a true democracy "very" oppressive, nor does it make it any less ridiculous in the context it's being used.
Thank goodness someone else here decided to "educate yourself on the differences"
also the ways guilds work is that the Leader and Officers have all the power over the guild, but you can leave if you want. That's the only power check. If they have you a democracy then great for your guild. If they have a republic I'm surprised, but great for your guild. If your guild is an autocracy then I'm not surprised but anyway it is, nothing prevents your minority from leaving and manually doing rancor in their own guild. If there are enough of them for you to talk about how something other than democracy would give you what you want, then it would be to easy to band together and leave. I'll bet someone has a forum post up for manual raids guilds as it is.
Perhaps I need to move to a different guild, the thing that bothers me is that this is not how people should deal with their problems. If the answer to any guild related dispute is simply "go to another guild" then you're never going to get to solve anything. This is the attitude people have when they are not willing to try for a change but they are defeated and run away like a dog with it's tail under it's legs. I know perfectly well that sooner or later I may be forced to look for a different guild if this situation continues but this doesn't mean that I don't get to defend players who are in the same minority as I am, who are facing yet another exodus from changes to the game that were out if their control. This ties to my first few sentences, democracy is by nature oppressive because majority rules and it can impose it's will on the minority. Top contributors are a minority the way reward tiers are shaped. Too bad guilds don't have Constitutions.
Well, if this topic inspires such strong feelings in everyone and no one has a better solution (besides a Constitution, that is, but devs would have to implement it)...that or you just roll with the status quo.
You lost me at “democracy is a very oppressive system”
🤦🏻♂️. He's talking about true democracies rather than what you are probably thinking a republic democracy. In a purely democratic society the majority rules in all cases. Thus subjecting the minority to potentially cataclysmic laws or persecution through majority will. A republic democracy "think the United States" has a constitution that limits democratic powers so the minority has a voice. I hope you educate yourself on the differences.
Wow! Thanks, mister!
Are you finished getting your fix of superiority for the day? Ok, my turn to defend myself. I know the differences. I studied political science in college. I stand by original comment.
I see this argument come up all the time and it just comes down to greed. To break it down, let's change the rules of HRancor a bit. Let's say everyone's contribution was not put onto a single health pool, but everyone could fight their own Rancor over 2 days. If you are able to sim Rancor, that means that means 35 people already have 7* Han, so most likely 35+ people can solo the Rancor. So if everyone had the ability to play Rancor on their own time, they probably would (it only takes like 5-10 minutes, and 2 days to complete, and could use as many teams as they wanted if they couldn't solo it) so you are now fighting for top rewards with 35+ people, and the remaining 15- people who don't have Han at 7*s and probably can't complete a HRancor on their own and need the shards/gear more are now getting 2 shards a piece just because you want to fight over a chance at better gear and could just as easily end up with worse rewards than just simming.
Replies
Auto doesn't require that you sit over it and watch or it stops. I auto rancor while taking a dump, playing other games on PC, driving my car, taking a shower, eating food, watching TV or YouTube. Saying you're not getting your 15 minutes back is an exaggeration
Let's put it this way, if this game was a competitive sport with real money prizes on the line, I would definitely correlate performance and effort with outcome and I certainly wouldn't want to handicap my best performers so I can give a slight boost to the ones who perform alot worse. I guess it's preference, some coaches like to give their star players more responsibility and time on the court, other coaches believe that the subs need more time, like I said whatever works best for your guild, but like I told you before, in the wrong hands this is a tool that's too dangerous
Lol well it seems to me that this problem is beyond rancor's reach although if you are simming it then you are still not doing anything and you gotta talk to your wife anyways?
That's not what I wrote. "The guild as a whole" and "the whole guild" are not the same thing. Please be accurate. Twisting my words like this is not serious debate.
I am perfectly aware, that the rewards for simming are less than the rewards, that top-ranking players would receive when not simming.
But yes, the guild as a whole wins better rewards when simming Rancor raids compared to manual play (assuming it's a near complete/full guild) - wether you like it or not.
When simming, your results don't depend on individual performance. Tge only thing that matters is (from a guild perspective) that everybody joins. There's no performance other than this.
Your basic problem (a large number of guild members not performing in guild events in general) is beyond the Rancor's reach as well. Furthermore, noone can solve your problem with your guild officers' decisions to sim. Disregarding what the outcome of this discussion is, it's all up to your officers.
Perhaps I need to move to a different guild, the thing that bothers me is that this is not how people should deal with their problems. If the answer to any guild related dispute is simply "go to another guild" then you're never going to get to solve anything. This is the attitude people have when they are not willing to try for a change but they are defeated and run away like a dog with it's tail under it's legs. I know perfectly well that sooner or later I may be forced to look for a different guild if this situation continues but this doesn't mean that I don't get to defend players who are in the same minority as I am, who are facing yet another exodus from changes to the game that were out if their control. This ties to my first few sentences, democracy is by nature oppressive because majority rules and it can impose it's will on the minority. Top contributors are a minority the way reward tiers are shaped. Too bad guilds don't have Constitutions.
There answer to most guild related issues is assuredly not, "go to the forums and rant." Talk to your guild. Make your opinion heard. Become an officer of you want more influence. Simming the raids is just a tool. It's not forced on any guild and use of it in your guild may be by democratic choice. Nobody here can help you change that.
For context, I'm an officer in a 140M GP guild that still runs hPit manually.
Do you realize what you just did? You essentially reinforced my argument. "Why should anyone focus on troopers to help you get those shards". This statement contains not 1 but 2 elements that help my argument.
1. Troopers, apart from being required for IPD mission which is a maximum of 100 shards per TB, they are also required for the stage 6 special mission which is a ton of guild event currency. And furthermore they are a great counter to nightsisters which is one of the best defensive squads for TW, which often determine the result. A wall of nightsisters can win a TW if the other guild wastes meta squads to get past them. Troopers is an off meta squad that can succeed greatly and help your guild win TW. So by not working on them it is you who is ultimately being the selfish player and not I who have my troopers well developed.
2. You said why should they help me with the shards. One of the biggest cases for simming rancor and in fact key point to the article linked above in support of simming, is the additional Han Solo shards. They act as though the shard shop currency outweighs credits and guild currency. With your statement you've literally destroyed the argument for simming, especially since 100 IPD shards equals 10 rancor raids worth of shards. So if shard shop currency is as important as you claim, how dare you say that I am the selfish player when I worked on my Imperial Troopers and others did not?
Lastly, if you don't have a solo team for rancor then you're either extremely new or you simply don't know what you're talking about. There are far too many ways to solo the rancor that don't even include CLS, Revan can do it, Rey can do it, Vader can do it, Jun erso can do it. You have no excuse and if you can't solo it with this many available ways then you deserve the minimum amount of rewards you can get from it ( assuming you aren't a new player with unreasonable standards).
I guess it would also depend on how many people in your guild used to show up to solo it prior to simming it. If your guild was extremely active and you had 25-30 people soloing it, they could just take the best of two evils and accept the sim , since it's heartbreaking to solo manually and get 20+. My guild didn't get too many solos and thus I have a different perspective on the issue
Everyone in my guild can solo it as well, it's just that not many people cared. Most were happy with a 0 since you could earn full pieces even in the 30s and sometimes in the 40s. But yeah that explains it, if you're gonna get 20+ with a solo you might as well not even bother, still I think they could do better with these rewards, too many shards and too little of everything else
Attempt 3; have you checked the totals at the bottom of the table?
Yes the totals are higher as a result of the redistribution but like I said before you're handicapping the top 15 severely
A republic democracy is also an oppressive system. Basically any powerstructure or decesion making system is oppressive by default.
You're probably arguing on principle, but you're basically saying being able to play the rancor manually should be a constitutional right in a republic democracy.
The use of the phrase "democracy is a very oppresive system" in this context is utterly ridiculous and eventhough you can defend it by saying a republic democracy is less oppresive doesn't make a true democracy "very" oppressive, nor does it make it any less ridiculous in the context it's being used.
This is starting to sound more like a guild problem than an issue with the raid.
If you are in a guild that is less committed than you are, you would definitely see simming as worse than soloing.
I believe the number was around 25-30, if that or more people solo then it's better for all to sim.
You seem to have a guild that is not performing up to your level of commitment and this is making you see the simming as a bad system. I would suggest you maybe look around if this is what you see. There are many guilds out there where soloing, meant the possibility of rank 40, and there is no worries about someone carrying anyone else in any other events.
That's not what I claimed either. Stop this nonsense of yours. If you want a serious debate - I'll happily debate with out.
Thank goodness someone else here decided to "educate yourself on the differences"
also the ways guilds work is that the Leader and Officers have all the power over the guild, but you can leave if you want. That's the only power check. If they have you a democracy then great for your guild. If they have a republic I'm surprised, but great for your guild. If your guild is an autocracy then I'm not surprised but anyway it is, nothing prevents your minority from leaving and manually doing rancor in their own guild. If there are enough of them for you to talk about how something other than democracy would give you what you want, then it would be to easy to band together and leave. I'll bet someone has a forum post up for manual raids guilds as it is.
Well, if this topic inspires such strong feelings in everyone and no one has a better solution (besides a Constitution, that is, but devs would have to implement it)...that or you just roll with the status quo.
Wow! Thanks, mister!
Are you finished getting your fix of superiority for the day? Ok, my turn to defend myself. I know the differences. I studied political science in college. I stand by original comment.