Changes (and Additional Changes) Coming in the Next Update [MEGA]

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  • BubbaFett
    3311 posts Member
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    This feels like the old sith raid input thread...... Pages a d pages of complaints and absolutely no response...... Very similar to the character ban tw threads as well......
  • Rath_Tarr
    4944 posts Member
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    Calbear949 wrote: »
    I will speak up for Kyno...s/he is a good person. I have interacted with him/her and always pleasant and cool.

    S/he is an asset to this forum.
    +1 I don't always agree with Kyno but I do appreciate his efforts to keep some semblance of order in the madhouse.
  • Ultra
    11502 posts Moderator
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    BubbaFett wrote: »
    This feels like the old sith raid input thread...... Pages a d pages of complaints and absolutely no response...... Very similar to the character ban tw threads as well......
    But we did ended up getting responses for both issues eventually...
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    *I didn't back read*

    My first thought was the new players will have another disadvantage. You gave the entire community way too long to farm toons with extra attempts. If it was truly an event then it would have ended but it's been a long time. New players will have to grind longer or spend way way more money to catch up.

    Sorry but you guys messed up by leaving extra attempts in the game so long. I understand my words mean nothing here but this won't be good for the game in the long run imo.
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    I love how the devs completely disregard 30 pages of negative response to a ridiculous change they intend to make. Man I’ve seen some great gaming companies like blizzard or Riot that actually value the feedback of the people that without them they wouldn’t have a paycheck. Whichever of these bone head companies that run this clown car are not what anyone would consider great. Greedy, 100% great not even remotely close.
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    I just started playing this game for real around the anniversary (after a short attempt years ago when it started).

    When I started it felt like a reasonable progression. It felt like real progress with a reasonable time gate that you could remove with crystals. We've seen that before. It's just how mobile games are. Then I found out that it had only been at that rate because of a short term double drop.

    It was disappointing but ok, I had just been unlucky enough to start in a period I didn't realize was a bonus thing. Since then I've settled into the normal routine and finished the 3 hard node farms for the JKR event with a few weeks to spare on the return of the event which tells me the farm time is very tightly tuned. Hard node farms are long at the current rate, but overall somewhere between what feels like the right rate to just a bit too slow and I'm sure its a weird thing to balance anyway as a designer. Never would I have expected an announcement like this, that actually this was temporary and you should all be taking much longer on any single character.

    Undoing quality of life improvements and making new player experience harder in an aging continually developed game is just outright not supposed to be a thing a Dev does.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
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    Grimstoned wrote: »
    Are they changing it to 5 because they can’t or won’t make new content?
    ...we've been getting new content. And lots of it. This seems more like grousing and lashing out for its own sake than anything with a basis in anything approaching reality.
    Still not a he.
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    I can't wait until people realize the 25 crystals to refresh a node was a temporary price drop too.
  • Ultra
    11502 posts Moderator
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    I'm glad we are going back to old-school 2018 SWGOH

    Maybe the sith raid rewards will no longer favor the top 10!
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    I can't wait until people realize the 25 crystals to refresh a node was a temporary price drop too.

    This ^
    Ultra wrote: »
    I'm glad we are going back to old-school 2018 SWGOH

    Maybe the sith raid rewards will no longer favor the top 10!

    and that ^ Lolol
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    This is sparta
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
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    Ultra wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    This feels like the old sith raid input thread...... Pages a d pages of complaints and absolutely no response...... Very similar to the character ban tw threads as well......
    But we did ended up getting responses for both issues eventually...

    Yes, one was "we heard you and we won't do it again" the other was "it makes us more money so we don't care what you think".

    I have a feeling this response will be like the latter, not the former.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
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    Ultra wrote: »
    I'm glad we are going back to old-school 2018 SWGOH

    Maybe the sith raid rewards will no longer favor the top 10!

    Does this mean we're going back to kits that didn't turn characters into raid bosses??!?!

    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
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    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Grimstoned wrote: »
    Are they changing it to 5 because they can’t or won’t make new content?
    ...we've been getting new content. And lots of it. This seems more like grousing and lashing out for its own sake than anything with a basis in anything approaching reality.

    Really? There's been very little new content over the six months; particularly on the farming front. There have only been 6 marquee characters and 2 galactic chase ships. As a F2P player I'm nearly out of characters to farm - as of next week I'll have 3 ship node farms (Sith Fighter, Anakin's Starfighter, and Carth) and 4 hard node farms (B-28, Bastila Fallen, Juhani, and Embo). I believe the reduction in hard node attempts is a logical way to cope with the slower release schedule of new content (and I actually don't mind it - still have plenty of time for Darth Revan Round 2, and the ships and Embo aren't urgent). I'll use any extra energy farming gear, which is far more of a bottleneck.

    There's been next to no new PvE content of which to speak. We've had a few minor tweaks to TW as well as the introduction of GA (which I imagine was able to recycle a lot of the code base from TW). I don't really count the legendary/journey events as they are one and done. No new assault battles, no new tables, no new game modes - there's actually very little to do at this point as I can auto/sim most things on the highest tiers. I've been manually playing GW to do the excruciatingly slow quests, and that isn't terribly fun.

    The devs may have painted themselves into a bit of a corner. The user base has grown too discerning on where to spend - see the new Separatist droids. The only effective monetization has been to introduce new meta characters (Bastila Fallen) or forced collectibles that lead to new meta characters (Canderous Ordo). That realistically can't happen with every new character/ship, and it's hard to justify development time on coding, testing, and creating artwork/models for content that doesn't boost the bottom line. People just won't pay for back wall TW teams; there's already more than enough viable characters in the game.

    There's also the largely unacknowledged issue of exponential complexity in character interactions; we've seen some of the fallout with the Finn and Acolyte reworks, and there's obviously a lot more work behind the scenes to test and introduce content than there was 3+ years ago. I honestly don't think the devs expected the user base to "solve" the HSTR so quickly; you can kind of infer this by how aggressively they defend it against loops and generally high performance (i.e. the expose nerf). Can you imagine designing a new raid to deal with the Revan(s), Chewbacca, 3P0, etc. kits and trying to anticipate every team composition and strategy currently in use?

    My biggest expectation is some sort of raid content for ships, as there is currently zero urgency to farm them. **** is plenty viable at 5*, but adding a heroic ship raid would force players to level up Bounty Hunter ships to get it to 7* as well as for their added utility in this hypothetical raid. There's also significantly less ships to consider in the design process. You'll get double monetization as you can introduce new marquee characters as pilots to any new ships (or force people to gear up trash characters as we've seen with Royal Guard and Bistan). That's the path of least resistance from a development standpoint, although I think the user base kind of hates ships. I imagine, though, that if the carrot is sufficiently appealing (cough, Malak, cough) that players will begrudgingly level up their Sith Fighters and Anakin's Starfighters. The best thing from a dev standpoint about raid reward characters is that they don't have to be 100% finished for months after the raid launches. ;-)

    My two cents. I'm getting kind of bored with this game as is, and anxiously awaiting some new content, so might be wishful thinking.
  • YetiYeti
    434 posts Member
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    What is CG's solution for new players? Obviously you're not going to grow a playerbase when they're behind an astronomical amount (hell just missing all those 50 shard marquee releases is annoying enough). I've only been playing this game since Christmas, but I feel like this hardnode nerf is unfairly harsh to any new players like me.

    Do you plan on doubling up hardnodes more? Or doubling up Cantina nodes with the non-essential but high utility toons that I'll never be able to farm off a hardnode? (I'm looking at guys like Shoretrooper, FOST, FOTP, etc.)

    I've only ever played with 8 attempts.
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    mitsos wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    mitsos wrote: »
    Kyno
    There is no single human being that has fun with that change. Let me break it down to you, grinding is a pain, making it worse cause us way more pain. This is the underhanded tactic that shouts ; "ftp players take a hike we only want heavy ptw".

    Please read the response I was writing to. The point about fun was that player saying old players get to have fun and new players do not.

    I was not saying that there is any connection between this change and fun. Comparing old players to new players is just furthering the idea that everyone needs to catch up. That is not the case.

    I spoke to my take on this change and at no point did I say this was a good change or going to make the game more fun.

    Yes I know exactly what you wrote, and why. You are juggling with words trying to ease the pressure to a toxic situation that someone else created. In the end its not your fault and I doubt that the person(s) responsible are even going to bother reading any of this. I am out and I wish the best to you and everyone.

    Yeah, it's kinda his job to defend CG/diffuse tension (although he does post inaccurate stuff at times.)
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    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    For you and me, not the newer players, but who cares right, you got what you needed.
    Negative, ghost rider.

    The extra attempts have served their purpose on the scale of the entire game, not just the scale of established players. They added five legendary/journey events in a short span, with associated content to farm.

    These events are only new once. These events are only dropped with just a couple weeks' notice on the requirements once. The prerequisite characters are only a recent addition to the game once.

    After that, the events are part of the rotation, and the prerequisites are an established part of the game. Back when Thrawn came to the game, it was a nightmare farm because of the narrow window between Phoenix being released and the Thrawn event, despite the double Phoenix drops. Ending the double Phoenix drops was not a middle finger to new players preparing for the Thrawn event. The double drops had served their purpose, and were done with. Phoenix was an established and accessible part of the game over the scale of months, and double drops weren't needed to get there. It's such an easy farm, in fact, that it's the first thing most new players are recommended to farm.

    The hunter ships, the KotOR toons, the new hunters are all just part of the game available to farm at your leisure now. And new players have plenty of stuff to farm, such that the difference between 5 parallel farms at 8 attempts per day versus 8 parallel farms at 5 attempts per day is more or less arbitrary, and does not significantly impact the pacing of their advancement.

    Are you even listening to yourself, that's some kitten right there. *the difference between 5 farms at 8 vs 8 farms at 5 is arbitrary* like ****. What if I dont want to farm those 3 extra characters because I want revan sooner, but I don't want to pay more crystals to do it hmm?
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    Kyno wrote: »
    NoomiZ wrote: »
    So are we ever gonna get an answer from an actual CGEA employee or is it gonna be silence as usual? (No offense Kyno)

    None taken.

    Lol, this is why you don't volunteer to moderate EA forums.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
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    Are you even listening to yourself, that's some kitten right there. *the difference between 5 farms at 8 vs 8 farms at 5 is arbitrary* like ****. What if I dont want to farm those 3 extra characters because I want revan sooner, but I don't want to pay more crystals to do it hmm?
    Well, then, don't do the extra farms, throw the spare energy in a river, and get Devan the same time you would have anyways since even with the reduced tries, given the timing of the previous journey characters, there will still be enough time to meet the prereqs.

    But are you even listening to yourself? What if you have such very exacting wants and offer no wiggle room in return, and ignore all options and opportunities available to you except the specific ones that you want now? Does that sound reasonable to you?

    Right now, my farms are Jango/HT, Badstila, IG-1000, Roller Disco, Juhani, Carth, and SiT. After the change, I'll add Baze, Rangetrooper, Vandor Chewbacca, and a half farm toward finishing Nest, which Carth put a hold on. All of these can be useful to me. Do I wish I could push those first seven farms faster? Sure. Am I really going to hurt from the reduced attempts? No. No, I'm really not. And not because my position is special and I'm somehow protected from the change, but because I can adapt my plans and figure out how I can better use what I have instead of complaining about it.
    Still not a he.
  • Raynia
    28 posts Member
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    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    The hunter ships, the KotOR toons, the new hunters are all just part of the game available to farm at your leisure now. And new players have plenty of stuff to farm, such that the difference between 5 parallel farms at 8 attempts per day versus 8 parallel farms at 5 attempts per day is more or less arbitrary, and does not significantly impact the pacing of their advancement.

    It's far from arbitrary. I'd much rather farm 5 toons to 7* than 8 toons at 5 or 6* in the same amount of time. You need 7* characters to compete in raids, TB and complete events. Getting a toon to 7* as quickly as possible for the least amount of crystals could mean the difference in getting a legendary character the next time it comes up and not having to wait around 3 more months. If there were only 5 attempts (or 10 with a refresh) there would be no way I could have gotten all the BH ships to 7* in time for the Falcon event coming up and that does significantly impact my advancement.
  • YaeVizsla
    3448 posts Member
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    Raynia wrote: »
    It's far from arbitrary. I'd much rather farm 5 toons to 7* than 8 toons at 5 or 6* in the same amount of time. You need 7* characters to compete in raids, TB and complete events. Getting a toon to 7* as quickly as possible for the least amount of crystals could mean the difference in getting a legendary character the next time it comes up and not having to wait around 3 more months. If there were only 5 attempts (or 10 with a refresh) there would be no way I could have gotten all the BH ships to 7* in time for the Falcon event coming up and that does significantly impact my advancement.
    Many things can impact whether or not you are ready for a legendary event.

    Now that we're past the five new legendary/journey events in a narrow span of time, many more of them are under your control. Most notably, you gain control over when you start your farms.
    Still not a he.
  • Gorem
    1190 posts Member
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    One day I hope people realise to just ignore Yae, like the devs do. We should all imitate how the devs handle feedback, by ignoring that it exists. I wonder if the whiteknight/CG employee Yae knows that he is being ignored by most people already. Yae loves the devs so much he should do what they do and ignore the thread.
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    This feels like the old sith raid input thread...... Pages a d pages of complaints and absolutely no response...... Very similar to the character ban tw threads as well......

    Also posted on the Friday, leave office, post it, come back after the weekend, continue to ignore it. Just like the way they did the Finn rework. Instead of fixing the broken raid, fixing Finn because he could beat Revan, while lying about the true reason. Just like they are basically lying in the OP here, considering C3 and Chewie ect.

    At least they said they'd not do tw banning again after they still went through with the first one, and at least they didn't rework finn and fixed the brok Refunded Finn's Zeta after they gutted the original rework plans to make his rework worse, while also making his leader redundant... after all our comments...

    Man I feel for new players in this game. Forever finding it harder to do anything while all the ways we had to do things get removed because how dare the game be fun right?
  • Raynia
    28 posts Member
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    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Many things can impact whether or not you are ready for a legendary event.

    Now that we're past the five new legendary/journey events in a narrow span of time, many more of them are under your control. Most notably, you gain control over when you start your farms.

    And what is the most important part of being ready for an event? Getting the required 7* characters ready. And what is the best way to make sure you have them at 7* in time? Farming them as fast as possible for the least amount of crystals.
    Stop trying to spin this and make it seem like it doesn't affect anything. If the change doesn't really matter than CG wouldn't be making it and they would leave it at 8. People can currently farm more characters by just doing 5 attempts and not the full 8. But people don't do that. They do the full 8 so that the farm is finished faster. It's as easy and simple as that.
  • Hagen_von_Tronje
    16 posts Member
    edited April 2019
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    Kyno wrote: »
    If a player chooses to be in a guild of players with a higher power than they are that is thier choice. They can just as easily be in a group of like powered players who have a similar life in game.

    If a player wants to be in that situation that is thier choice and more power to them, but that is still thier choice. There are plenty of guilds with good records that are building up to become great guilds. If they want to just be top end and push for the best even when they are still early/mid game, then that's on them.

    Yeah, that is a brilliant solution ... I should join a smaler guild and progress even slower, get less rewards. That is probably the way to go. Sounds fun, not getting the raid toons and getting less rewards in TW and TB. NOT.

    And ... I am far away from being part of a top end guild ... we are not doing HSTR, not great in TB an TW. And I can't realy see, how joining a smaler guild would help ... because it dosen't change the fact, that I did not have the opportunity to farm my raid-teams now.

    I'm sure you are a nice lad/lass, kyno, but this marketing-gibberish about "player choice" annoys me.
    Ask for new player advice in the forum ... and the number one answer is ... join a decent guild.
    And it is not realy for the new player to choose the guild, it's more like "I'm new, may I join?" "Nope, +2Mio GP" "May I join" "No" "May I join?" "No" "May I join your guild" "Ok". So, the guild chooses the player, not the other way around.
    And for "player choice", that argument could be straight form a monty python skit and I am very glad, that this kind of "choice" is not relevant in any other part of doing business.
    "Your advertisment promised, I can choose breakfest. What do you have?"
    "We have porridge or broken glas with rat poison"
    "That is not a choice"
    "It is, you can only have one or the other, not both, so it is technically a choice."

    Or I could say, well .. I can wait to cross the street, until it is safe, or not wait and get run over by a bus.
    If one alternative is the decent thing to do, the other not, it is not realy a choice, imho.
    Post edited by Hagen_von_Tronje on
  • Naw
    969 posts Member
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    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    Grimstoned wrote: »
    Are they changing it to 5 because they can’t or won’t make new content?
    ...we've been getting new content. And lots of it. This seems more like grousing and lashing out for its own sake than anything with a basis in anything approaching reality.

    This I cannot ignore. Can you please clarify what you mean with ”and lots of it”?

    New toons does not equal to new playable content.
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
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    Even as a veteran, there is a lot of characters I will simply never get to 7* because of the shift towards hard nodes as the default way of release. This change makes the list even longer, which is something I can't agree with.
    Moreover, farming for any future Journey or Legendary will take longer, and I doubt they will increase the farm time to compensate. The timing here is too suspicious to deny any connection to Darth Revan and number of unlocks or revenue generated...
    A small part of me still hopes that this, along with the addition of new gear for DR, is just pre-balancing the game economy in preparation for something new and awesome, but that part keeps getting smaller and smaller.
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    Gannon wrote: »
    Xezee wrote: »
    Gannon wrote: »
    I don't see what the big deal is.

    It was always 5 attempts. They increased it to 8 for an unspecified time, but it was never stated or intended to be a permanent change. It's just going back to normal.

    In the future we may get a third stretch of increased attempts.

    Sorry, but if you think it was "always" 5 attempts, then you must be quite new. It was "always" (as in: originally) 3 attempts and 50 crystals for the first refresh. Then it was changed to 5/50 and 8/25 in September 2018 iirc
    I don't recall exact dates, but "8" might have been longer in the game than "5".

    Been playing since almost the beginning, so no, not new. And the 3 attempts wasn't in the game very long at all, iirc. It's been 5 for at least like 3 years or so

    I have been playing less than 3 years and at least six months of those years where 3 attempts per hard node. First order stormtrooper was a horrible grind because of it!
  • PeldorV
    45 posts Member
    edited April 2019
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    YaeVizsla wrote: »
    NoomiZ wrote: »
    So are we ever gonna get an answer from an actual CGEA employee or is it gonna be silence as usual? (No offense Kyno)
    I will never understand this mindset.

    What is there to even say, other than, "Noted."

    It's not like anyone here is saying anything particularly new or unexpected. The main difference is that people are speaking from a place of ignorance on the matter, because this is the sort of decision that gets made on a scale of overall game economy and pacing. Stuff the devs see and care about, and the typical player doesn't.

    When they say, "We're changing it back to 5," and the playerbase says, "But I want 8," do you expect the devs to say, "Oh, I didn't realize you wanted 8?" No. They already knew that, and there's nothing to say because it isn't news, nor is it an original or unexpected observation.

    Kinda like WoW and flying. Oh, wait, player base outrage and collapse of subs caused them to reverse on that, didn’t it?
  • Vendi1983
    5023 posts Member
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    Or gear up really useful toons that you've obviously neglected there, chief.
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    Well the good news is you don't an expansive roster for grand arena anymore, because they've made the rewards so bad, it's not worth the effort to most people. :/
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