GAC matchmaking - supposed to be funny?

Replies

  • Matchmaking is vastly different across accounts. We can all talk about our own matchmaking experience, but the refrain so commonly heard about evidence being "anecdotal" is just as true here as it is in every other part of the game we complain about, or complain about being complained about.

    Sometimes it's in my favor, sometimes it provides a great match up, and sometimes I'm just destined to be the nail to someone's hammer. Relics have added a pretty significant power variability that didn't exist when the game mode was first introduced and I don't think MM has kept up to date with it. Division also plays a pretty big role; I see a lot of D3 and D4 accounts with more relics than my soon to be D1 account has. I don't think MM has any way of accounting for this and certain roster comps benefit, as they always will from whatever MM algo is used.

    I think the ONLY way to make it more equitable would be to dramatically increase the number of defensive teams required and incorporate more placements over a flatter map. Alternatively, allow the use of toons on both offense and defense (more a test of roster than what some people call "skill", but I think you could make arguments either way on that). The uber-toons would still be valuable, but potentially not as "block two zones and I win" valuable as they are today, while all of those other less valuable toons that are currently part of the MM equation but otherwise not used would actually get used in some way. Maybe that's why I enjoy 3v3. It's far less of a "check-the-box" approach and allows some flexibility and creativity than this rote business of 5v5.
  • CCyrilS
    4902 posts Member
    Saada wrote: »
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Saada wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »

    Just because you can overcome poor matchmaking by playing better doesn't make the matchmaking not poor.

    Counterpoint: The fact that I win consistently with the disadvantages others whinge about shows matchmaking isn't poor, they just need to get on with it.

    Matchmaking currently favors certain roster setups. (Lean rosters with focus on meta toons/teams) Now you might believe you are a star because the matchmaking favors you, but that only proves that you are lucky enough to be on the upside of the matchmaking equation.

    Others however get permanently punished by the current matchmaking logic. And while some factors are in the players control (e.g. gear up toons or obtain key meta toons) there are other factors that cannot be controlled.

    I am a veteran player and I am not able to demote or unlevel my old, once good, now useless toons. So even if I farm and gear the “right” toons now I still will be matched to my disadvantage (top x toon GP helps only marginally)

    Mm does not favor lean rosters.

    Your total lack of understanding is likely why you struggle.

    Mm is based on GP. (Top x GP)
    I think you don’t understand what a “lean roster” is.

    But please enlighten me and my “total lack of understanding”

    Everything not counted on your top 80 is bonus, and an advantage over opponents. No need to "demote" toons.

    GA has been around plenty long enough to have made meaningful choices to help you win. Continuing to complain about mm is not an acceptable excuse.

    Your post is nonsense. I am not sure if you are just trying to troll or if you are serious.

    In GAC the difference between winning and losing often comes down to winning with 53, 56 or 60 points. With the opponents I am facing anything below G12 is just useless.

    I have plenty of G11 toons that I use to great effect in GAC, in Division 1.

    Lol this is the problem. Mate you have what 16 g13 toons in div 1. I have 30in div 2 and had more than the when I was in div 3. If you have a certain type of roster, matchmaking favours you (as in your case) or it could be against you as many others. Look I'm not complaining, I try to win and I win 3-0 some round then can go 0-3 in others but my opponents all have fully relicd top tier squads and usually over 40 relicd toons...gas, dr/malak, ns etc and it's tough compared to you where you might be a big fish in a little pond while others are the little fish struggling. Don't presume to know how it is to be in their shoes....

    :alot: to unpack here.

    1) You're right I don't have a lot of G13 toons. Resource management, which this game rewards. Do more with less.

    2) GA existed before G13, so you can't claim you are disadvantaged because you did a bunch of G13 before GA.

    3) How did you have more G13 when you were in Div 3 then now?

    4) Matchmaking cannot be perfect unless you play an identical roster. So again, what's your solution?

    5) If you struggle because opponents have fully relic'd squads, you need to build up your counters high enough where they can counter that. And probably get better mods.

    I had more than what you have now when I was in div 3. Pull that brain from your **** thanks.

    Oh. I'm not complaining, I win I lose I don't care but im sticking up for those who have problems. Your solution for counters is wrong as well as I have found out. I was matched with r7 malaks and relicd padme squads so I got r7 malak and a good padme sqhad and guess what I now get matched with the same but moe these people have r7 gas and clones. The more counters you work on the more your top gp becomes and the harder matchups you get.
    I don't care cause I'll keep chasing and that's fine but all your understanding is completely wrong since you haven't been in anyone elses shoes....

    It's not about chasing. The whole point is using what you have more effectively.

    What is going on here? Get a counter...ok which means chasing gas or shaak ti with the clones...... "Oh no, use what you got effectively." ???? Ummm excuse me, I think you need to see a councillor for a split personality....

    But counter with less. Adding gp that doesnt carry it's weight is counterproductive.

    That's why I make use of g11 toons (for you maybe it's g12).

    This is exactly why I argued that lean rosters are not favored.

    Please counter a r7 gas with clones and r7 dr/malak with less... please enlighten me how a g11/12 squad will help me and therefore not add much gp?

    Unless they have 8 GAS there is room for improvement somewhere.
  • Enough salt in this here thread to brine a turkey.
    nCRHWE8.gif
  • KyoO1234
    270 posts Member
    edited February 5
    TVF wrote: »
    On somewhat of a side note the people who go for the Galactic Legends are gonna be screwed by the GA matchmaking. They are gonna end up with a bunch of high relic weak characters that are gonna ensure they get matched up against very strong opponents.
    No one has ever put forth an actual alternative to the current mm that improves it.

    Really?!?! What about considering the additional factors that I pointed out multiple times?

    Those certainly wouldn’t make the matchmaking worse.

    There has not been any counter argument to those except for “whale harder” and “suck it up!”
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    On somewhat of a side note the people who go for the Galactic Legends are gonna be screwed by the GA matchmaking. They are gonna end up with a bunch of high relic weak characters that are gonna ensure they get matched up against very strong opponents.
    No one has ever put forth an actual alternative to the current mm that improves it.

    Really?!?! What about considering the additional factors that I pointed out multiple times?

    Those certainly wouldn’t make the matchmaking worse.

    They will for somebody
  • CCyrilS wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    On somewhat of a side note the people who go for the Galactic Legends are gonna be screwed by the GA matchmaking. They are gonna end up with a bunch of high relic weak characters that are gonna ensure they get matched up against very strong opponents.
    No one has ever put forth an actual alternative to the current mm that improves it.

    Really?!?! What about considering the additional factors that I pointed out multiple times?

    Those certainly wouldn’t make the matchmaking worse.

    They will for somebody

    If you are favored by the current mm and the mm becomes more fair, you might actually be right.

    Thank you for finally getting to the true reason for your “concerns”.
  • KyoO1234 wrote: »
    CCyrilS wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    On somewhat of a side note the people who go for the Galactic Legends are gonna be screwed by the GA matchmaking. They are gonna end up with a bunch of high relic weak characters that are gonna ensure they get matched up against very strong opponents.
    No one has ever put forth an actual alternative to the current mm that improves it.

    Really?!?! What about considering the additional factors that I pointed out multiple times?

    Those certainly wouldn’t make the matchmaking worse.

    They will for somebody

    If you are favored by the current mm and the mm becomes more fair, you might actually be right.

    Thank you for finally getting to the true reason for your “concerns”.

    Only point was there will be complainers no matter what.

    And again, I only said it does NOT favor lean rosters. You haven't proven me wrong, in fact your buddy there pretty much proved me right.
  • The fact that I win consistently with the disadvantages
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    Now you might believe you are a star because the matchmaking favors you

    So is it you didn't read my post, or don't know what disadvantage means?
  • TheRHOMBUS wrote: »

    Are you a freshman in college or something?

    You do move fast. On a separate note what are you on about?
  • CCyrilS
    4902 posts Member
    TheRHOMBUS wrote: »

    Are you a freshman in college or something?

    You do move fast. On a separate note what are you on about?

    My thought exactly!
  • CCyrilS wrote: »

    All I took away was that arena rank should be a factor

    Yeah...
    KyoO1234 wrote: »

    Matches based on gear levels would be better.
    Matches based on Arena ranks would be better.
    Matches based on meta characters would be better.
    Pretty much anything would be better than GP.
  • CCyrilS
    4902 posts Member
    TheRHOMBUS wrote: »
    TheRHOMBUS wrote: »

    Are you a freshman in college or something?

    You do move fast. On a separate note what are you on about?

    Something about the way you argue is very first year future sociology major.

    Do they use logic?
  • TheRHOMBUS wrote: »

    Something about the way you argue is very first year future sociology major.

    Not really sure how to respond to that, yet I am anyway. Clearly I've begun to subconsciously succumb to the social cognition after this much time on the forums, I'm turning into them! Skinner was right all along, the operant conditioning is slowly getting to me.... (...I lost so matchmaking is bad....)
  • TheRHOMBUS wrote: »

    Something about the way you argue is very first year future sociology major.

    Not really sure how to respond to that, yet I am anyway. Clearly I've begun to subconsciously succumb to the social cognition after this much time on the forums, I'm turning into them! Skinner was right all along, the operant conditioning is slowly getting to me.... (...I lost so matchmaking is bad....)

    Wait, is that a fancy way of saying you are addicted to arguing on the forums? How did I know this would end up on addiction...
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • TVF
    25693 posts Member
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    On somewhat of a side note the people who go for the Galactic Legends are gonna be screwed by the GA matchmaking. They are gonna end up with a bunch of high relic weak characters that are gonna ensure they get matched up against very strong opponents.
    No one has ever put forth an actual alternative to the current mm that improves it.

    Really?!?! What about considering the additional factors that I pointed out multiple times?

    Those certainly wouldn’t make the matchmaking worse.

    Disagree

    Arena ranking is a terrible judge of your entire roster.

    Meta status is a terrible judge of your entire roster. Plus it constantly evolves.

    Gear levels is no better than GP.

    I don't remember your last one, sorry.

    Fact is there is no system that will create perfect matchmaking because that's impossible. MM will always advantage some and disadvantage others. Improve your roster and turn it to your advantage.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    On somewhat of a side note the people who go for the Galactic Legends are gonna be screwed by the GA matchmaking. They are gonna end up with a bunch of high relic weak characters that are gonna ensure they get matched up against very strong opponents.
    No one has ever put forth an actual alternative to the current mm that improves it.

    Really?!?! What about considering the additional factors that I pointed out multiple times?

    Those certainly wouldn’t make the matchmaking worse.

    Disagree

    Arena ranking is a terrible judge of your entire roster.

    Meta status is a terrible judge of your entire roster. Plus it constantly evolves.

    Gear levels is no better than GP.

    I don't remember your last one, sorry.

    Fact is there is no system that will create perfect matchmaking because that's impossible. MM will always advantage some and disadvantage others. Improve your roster and turn it to your advantage.

    To flesh these out further:

    1) Arena ranking would be worse than terrible, as it is far too easy to manipulate. Also, there are people out there who don't engage with Squad Arena, despite having superb rosters. Imagine getting matched with a sleeping whale?

    2) Meta status would also be worse than terrible. If me unlocking the latest meta defining toon means I'll only ever face people in GAC who have also unlocked that toon, what possible incentive is there for me to unlock that toon? The PVP element of this game has always been about the haves and the have-nots. Surely there has to be some "reward" for unlocking these toons before others?

    3) Gear levels is indeed worse than GP. If matchmaking considered all g12 characters as equivalent, then you'd have people who have taken less than useful toons to g12 because of some long-past meta (fleet or squad) being matched with people who have taken more useful toons to g12. Any MM system that considers g12 ugnaught equivalent to g12 DR is a non-starter.

    Ideally, I'd like the MM whiners to have a GA matched according to their suggestions. Then, when they get soundly beaten in that GA as well, they may finally accept that the problem with their GA performance lies squarely at their feet, nowhere else.

  • To flesh these out further:

    1) Arena ranking would be worse than terrible, as it is far too easy to manipulate. Also, there are people out there who don't engage with Squad Arena, despite having superb rosters. Imagine getting matched with a sleeping whale?

    2) Meta status would also be worse than terrible. If me unlocking the latest meta defining toon means I'll only ever face people in GAC who have also unlocked that toon, what possible incentive is there for me to unlock that toon? The PVP element of this game has always been about the haves and the have-nots. Surely there has to be some "reward" for unlocking these toons before others?

    3) Gear levels is indeed worse than GP. If matchmaking considered all g12 characters as equivalent, then you'd have people who have taken less than useful toons to g12 because of some long-past meta (fleet or squad) being matched with people who have taken more useful toons to g12. Any MM system that considers g12 ugnaught equivalent to g12 DR is a non-starter.

    Ideally, I'd like the MM whiners to have a GA matched according to their suggestions. Then, when they get soundly beaten in that GA as well, they may finally accept that the problem with their GA performance lies squarely at their feet, nowhere else.

    Nah, then its bugged and the devs have coded it wrong.
  • TVF wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    On somewhat of a side note the people who go for the Galactic Legends are gonna be screwed by the GA matchmaking. They are gonna end up with a bunch of high relic weak characters that are gonna ensure they get matched up against very strong opponents.
    No one has ever put forth an actual alternative to the current mm that improves it.

    Really?!?! What about considering the additional factors that I pointed out multiple times?

    Those certainly wouldn’t make the matchmaking worse.

    Disagree

    Arena ranking is a terrible judge of your entire roster.

    Meta status is a terrible judge of your entire roster. Plus it constantly evolves.

    Gear levels is no better than GP.

    I don't remember your last one, sorry.

    Fact is there is no system that will create perfect matchmaking because that's impossible. MM will always advantage some and disadvantage others. Improve your roster and turn it to your advantage.

    3) Gear levels is indeed worse than GP. If matchmaking considered all g12 characters as equivalent, then you'd have people who have taken less than useful toons to g12 because of some long-past meta (fleet or squad) being matched with people who have taken more useful toons to g12. Any MM system that considers g12 ugnaught equivalent to g12 DR is a non-starter.

    But the current MM system essentially does this. If you leave DR’s and ugnaught’s abilities are level 1, they have essentially the same GP at g12. A better comparison, one that’s used often in this debate, is Jyn and Malak have the same GP if they have maxed abilities and the same gear level. How could a MM system be adequate if it considers jyn and Malak equivalent but not DR and ugnaught as equals?

    For the record, I don’t agree with those original recommendations either.
  • TVF wrote: »
    KyoO1234 wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    On somewhat of a side note the people who go for the Galactic Legends are gonna be screwed by the GA matchmaking. They are gonna end up with a bunch of high relic weak characters that are gonna ensure they get matched up against very strong opponents.
    No one has ever put forth an actual alternative to the current mm that improves it.

    Really?!?! What about considering the additional factors that I pointed out multiple times?

    Those certainly wouldn’t make the matchmaking worse.

    Disagree

    Arena ranking is a terrible judge of your entire roster.

    Meta status is a terrible judge of your entire roster. Plus it constantly evolves.

    Gear levels is no better than GP.

    I don't remember your last one, sorry.

    Fact is there is no system that will create perfect matchmaking because that's impossible. MM will always advantage some and disadvantage others. Improve your roster and turn it to your advantage.

    3) Gear levels is indeed worse than GP. If matchmaking considered all g12 characters as equivalent, then you'd have people who have taken less than useful toons to g12 because of some long-past meta (fleet or squad) being matched with people who have taken more useful toons to g12. Any MM system that considers g12 ugnaught equivalent to g12 DR is a non-starter.

    But the current MM system essentially does this. If you leave DR’s and ugnaught’s abilities are level 1, they have essentially the same GP at g12. A better comparison, one that’s used often in this debate, is Jyn and Malak have the same GP if they have maxed abilities and the same gear level. How could a MM system be adequate if it considers jyn and Malak equivalent but not DR and ugnaught as equals?

    For the record, I don’t agree with those original recommendations either.


    That's still not a perfect comparison because Malak adds a few 6 dot mods short of 175,000 GP across 10 characters at a minimum and then those characters add their own value in their respective teams and have their own requirements to unlock. Also if the rest of your roster is good enough there's a good chance you can make that double zeta jyn work on a back line team after your other teams bleed the opponent of counters (and I've never had to think about it but there must be a way to make R1 teams nest proof).

    But also, at this point GA has been around for a year and older players investments in "it was good at the time" characters like Jyn should be being overtaken by new metas at higher ceilings of investment crowding those old characters out of the top 80 will continue to do so as things progress.

    The main point is that it's a perfectly reasonable opinion for someone to hold that a person who just has malak vs a person who just has Jyn should be matched and one of them should have the obvious advantage that gives because they made the decision to invest those resources in a better character.

    The idea of matching by GP is presumably that it's a measure of resource investment (imperfect though it obviously is) and that advantage is given to those that make certain choices over others but that those that have invested about the same amount of resources are matched and for the most part have relatively even battles despite occasional outliers.
  • The idea of matching by GP is presumably that it's a measure of resource investment (imperfect though it obviously is) and that advantage is given to those that make certain choices over others but that those that have invested about the same amount of resources are matched and for the most part have relatively even battles despite occasional outliers.

    I think this was more true when G12 was the highest attainable power level. The introduction of Relics and the GP to Effectiveness ration associated with them has really skewed the ability of the old MM algo (if it truly is blind GP comparison) to establish "even" matches. The more the power level in the game is in flux (the difference between the median character power and maximum character power in the matched set), the more likely you are to have uneven matches. You'll see more "even" matches as players start hitting the 50/70 Relic character mark, which is to say a very very long time from now.
  • Gifafi
    4993 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    I mean, if I want to do good in a game, I research it as I'm starting, not a few years in....maybe that's just me though.

    just you, judging from what I did. sigh
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Gifafi
    4993 posts Member
    edited February 5
    .
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • CCyrilS
    4902 posts Member
    TheRHOMBUS wrote: »
    How did I know this would end up on addiction...

    Becasue the game is based on it.

    kblfrc5ak396.gif
  • TVF wrote: »
    I feel like the whole point of this thread has gone over your head.

    People tell me that a lot, but right now I'm having a laugh, so I don't think so this time. You want to win with less gear, counters are still your best bet, else you might as well say you can't win at gear 1 so it's silly to say work on it.

    The whole point of this thread is that the OP is being matched against someone with way more G13 and relics characters so saying just get more G13 character is missing the point.

    I win almost every GAC match that I play. Do I win because I am better than my opponent? No. I win because I have a reliced SE team with Malak that is essentially undefeatable in my division. No opponent has ever beaten it so every opponent I play against is locked out of two of my territories. Is that fair?

    Yes it is. If they want to beat you they should get a counter, not a handout.

    Well haven't the entire forum become this. Pic related
    qw201inc1n37.gif

    Disappointed he didnt shoot lightning with his force push...
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