Seems like some only want 3v3, and some don't want any 3v3, so maybe a nice balance? Say once every 3-6 months?
This is what’s wrong with 3v3 IMO though. It’s a half baked mode that frustrates people because it’s not used anywhere else. I say either go all out with 3v3 and incorporate it all over the game and maybe even design 3v3 only abilities for characters or don’t use it at all.
What we need is a 1v1 GAC where there's no leader abilities, no unique or special abilities. Pure rock, paper, scissors. Sounds like a fun game mode huh?
Seems like some only want 3v3, and some don't want any 3v3, so maybe a nice balance? Say once every 3-6 months?
This is what’s wrong with 3v3 IMO though. It’s a half baked mode that frustrates people because it’s not used anywhere else. I say either go all out with 3v3 and incorporate it all over the game and maybe even design 3v3 only abilities for characters or don’t use it at all.
What is half-baked about it?
The mode is GAC not 3v3. 3v3 is just a variant. Really isn't any different from having ally toons available in some modes but not others and even 5v5 isn't pure these days with the introduction of Geo Brood Alpha and ARC Trooper.
The idea that the whole game is supposed to be 5v5 is a steaming load of bovine waste byproduct.
Seems like some only want 3v3, and some don't want any 3v3, so maybe a nice balance? Say once every 3-6 months?
This is what’s wrong with 3v3 IMO though. It’s a half baked mode that frustrates people because it’s not used anywhere else. I say either go all out with 3v3 and incorporate it all over the game and maybe even design 3v3 only abilities for characters or don’t use it at all.
What is half-baked about it?
The mode is GAC not 3v3. 3v3 is just a variant. Really isn't any different from having ally toons available in some modes but not others and even 5v5 isn't pure these days with the introduction of Geo Brood Alpha and ARC Trooper.
The idea that the whole game is supposed to be 5v5 is a steaming load of bovine waste byproduct.
Maybe the whole game isn’t supposed to be 5 char teams, but 95% of the fights we do are.
Raid teams
Pretty much all PVE content teams
TW teams
TB teams
GAC teams
Arena teams
There are obv a few exceptions with 3v3 GAC, undermanned teams in GAC, 2 summoners, and a couple raid teams.
Raids - asymmetrical, not 5v5
LS/DS/Cantina/Mod battles - asymmetrical with ally slot, 6v{x}
TB - asymmetrical, not 5v5
Fleet - 3v3 before first RIs
GAC - 5v5 or 3v3 and under-squadding encouraged in both
And as I stated previously, the introduction of Brood Alpha and ARC Trooper blows up the argument that 5 is the standard squad size, period.
So again, any assertion that 5v5 is the predominant setup is a great steaming pile of bovine waste byproduct.
Seems like some only want 3v3, and some don't want any 3v3, so maybe a nice balance? Say once every 3-6 months?
This is what’s wrong with 3v3 IMO though. It’s a half baked mode that frustrates people because it’s not used anywhere else. I say either go all out with 3v3 and incorporate it all over the game and maybe even design 3v3 only abilities for characters or don’t use it at all.
What is half-baked about it?
The mode is GAC not 3v3. 3v3 is just a variant. Really isn't any different from having ally toons available in some modes but not others and even 5v5 isn't pure these days with the introduction of Geo Brood Alpha and ARC Trooper.
The idea that the whole game is supposed to be 5v5 is a steaming load of bovine waste byproduct.
Maybe the whole game isn’t supposed to be 5 char teams, but 95% of the fights we do are.
Raid teams
Pretty much all PVE content teams
TW teams
TB teams
GAC teams
Arena teams
There are obv a few exceptions with 3v3 GAC, undermanned teams in GAC, 2 summoners, and a couple raid teams.
Raids - asymmetrical, not 5v5
LS/DS/Cantina/Mod battles - asymmetrical with ally slot, 6v{x}
TB - asymmetrical, not 5v5
Fleet - 3v3 before first RIs
GAC - 5v5 or 3v3 and under-squadding encouraged in both
And as I stated previously, the introduction of Brood Alpha and ARC Trooper blows up the argument that 5 is the standard squad size, period.
So again, any assertion that 5v5 is the predominant setup is a great steaming pile of bovine waste byproduct.
I said 5 char teams
But to your point of 5v5, any assertion that 5v5 isn’t the predominant setup game wide is a great steaming pile of bovine waste product.
It just is, period
Having 2 summoners blows up the “standard” of 5 chars? I don’t think you understand what standard means.
Having said that, I like when things are mixed up and allow us to have to think outside the box.
5 char teams are not the standard either:
* LS/DS/Cantina/Mod battles - ally slot: 6 char teams
DS Geo TB - ally slot: 6 char teams
GAC - 3 char teams for 3v3 and under-squadding encouraged and rewarded in all variants
Summoned Brute / Turret - available in most game modes for a 6 char team and there is no reason to think that they will be the last summoned chars
So no the 5 man squad is not the "standard". It just isn't, period.
Choosing between what type of GAC you wanna play (3v3, 5v5, 3v3 with/without ships, 5v5 with/without ships, 4v4, etc.) actually sounds interesting. Not sure though how the divisions would build up. There could be too less ppl in the 3v3 GAC (just assuming that it's the less popular format) and one might end up facing the same ppl more often. Also there should be the same amount of banners being earned in each format which would require a complete overhaul of the banner system I guess.
So the whole thing is unlikely to ever happen.
Seems like some only want 3v3, and some don't want any 3v3, so maybe a nice balance? Say once every 3-6 months?
This is what’s wrong with 3v3 IMO though. It’s a half baked mode that frustrates people because it’s not used anywhere else. I say either go all out with 3v3 and incorporate it all over the game and maybe even design 3v3 only abilities for characters or don’t use it at all.
What is half-baked about it?
The mode is GAC not 3v3. 3v3 is just a variant. Really isn't any different from having ally toons available in some modes but not others and even 5v5 isn't pure these days with the introduction of Geo Brood Alpha and ARC Trooper.
The idea that the whole game is supposed to be 5v5 is a steaming load of bovine waste byproduct.
Maybe the whole game isn’t supposed to be 5 char teams, but 95% of the fights we do are.
Raid teams
Pretty much all PVE content teams
TW teams
TB teams
GAC teams
Arena teams
There are obv a few exceptions with 3v3 GAC, undermanned teams in GAC, 2 summoners, and a couple raid teams.
Raids - asymmetrical, not 5v5
LS/DS/Cantina/Mod battles - asymmetrical with ally slot, 6v{x}
TB - asymmetrical, not 5v5
Fleet - 3v3 before first RIs
GAC - 5v5 or 3v3 and under-squadding encouraged in both
And as I stated previously, the introduction of Brood Alpha and ARC Trooper blows up the argument that 5 is the standard squad size, period.
So again, any assertion that 5v5 is the predominant setup is a great steaming pile of bovine waste byproduct.
I said 5 char teams
But to your point of 5v5, any assertion that 5v5 isn’t the predominant setup game wide is a great steaming pile of bovine waste product.
It just is, period
Having 2 summoners blows up the “standard” of 5 chars? I don’t think you understand what standard means.
Having said that, I like when things are mixed up and allow us to have to think outside the box.
5 char teams are not the standard either:
* LS/DS/Cantina/Mod battles - ally slot: 6 char teams
DS Geo TB - ally slot: 6 char teams
GAC - 3 char teams for 3v3 and under-squadding encouraged and rewarded in all variants
Summoned Brute / Turret - available in most game modes for a 6 char team and there is no reason to think that they will be the last summoned chars
So no the 5 man squad is not the "standard". It just isn't, period.
I think you’re stretching a bit here.
LS/DS/etc. - you set a 5 toon squad and then add an ally afterwards. There is even some randomness in the choice of borrowed toons you can select from.
Summons are the same - you use a 5 toon team and calling the 6th is an ability of those 5. The synergy is “built in” with the summoning character and the amount of theory crafting based on that summoned toon is pretty minimal. The TB summon is the same - there is no ability to theory craft that 6th slot as we only have the one option for a 6th.
Someone else mentioned ships. I believe that is irrelevant because the ship composition is identical in 3v3 and 5v5, as well as other game modes - its the standard ship configuration.
GAC is also a 5-toon squad, although you have the option to use fewer. I mean, you can do that in other modes as well.
It’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that 3v3 is not a unique configuration that we rarely see, as it only appears on GAC occasionally and not anywhere else. 5v5 teams are what we work from in essentially all game modes.
The more variety the better. Why not really get people to work their rosters by having a sequence of handicapped territories- so a cap of say 50k in tier 1, 75k tier two, 100k tier 3 & so on. Use as many or as few toons as you want per squad but stay under the cap
I think people who say that 5 character teams are "the standard" are completely failing to understand the difference between "this is the thing that is most common" and "this is the thing that should be true and that humans should resist changing".
Saying that most restaurants in Canada serve beef in some form or another is probably true. Restaurant after restaurant across the country and you get beef noodle soup in Pho restaurants, beef burgers at White Spot or Triple Os or Wendy's, steaks in hotel restaurants, spaghetti & meatballs at the local, greasy italian place, and on and on and on.
It's common to serve beef. It's not "the standard". Restaurants don't have to serve beef. It's not wrong to create a vegetarian restaurant or a Chick Fil'A. If mom says she's taking you The Naam, she's not committing a sin. She's not doing something she's not supposed to do, because they don't serve beef. She's not violating your rights.
All this about how 5-person teams are "The Standard™" is just a way of saying that other teams are wrong. They're not wrong. They're just not as common.
And people who are arguing that something being less common is the same as something being bad are betraying a tendency which they should work to resist, less they fall into the same trap that school teachers of old used to do, when they would smack left-handed children for using their left hands to write.
Being right handed isn't "The Standard". It's just more common.
3v3 is as old as Omega Battles from 2016. It's always been around. It's never been as common as 5v5 in arena or 5v3 and 5v1 in raids or even 6v6+ in LS/DS/Cantina, but it's been around since before the level cap hit 80. In fact, now that I think of it, 3v3 is the mode in a couple of the tutorial battles when you first create an account and before you hit level 5. You fight 3v3 before you ever have a single chance to fight 5v5.
If you find yourself unprepared for a style of fighting that's been around since the game began, maybe the problem isn't that 3v3 is harder. Maybe it's that you simply aren't as flexible as other players.
Recognizing the 5 char norm does not equal disliking anything else that’s brought to the game.
Agreed. But "standard" - and even "norm" - have meanings beyond just "the most common". The people reading you can't tell if you mean more than what is obviously true, that 5vX is the most common play mode or if you're saying,
"This is the way that it should be, and other forms of play are therefore not as good and/or to be avoided."
In a conversation such as this where some people (not you, but some people) are saying that 3v3 should not happen, the multiple meanings of "standard" and "norm" just create confusion. It sounds like you're saying that other things are "wrong", that they don't "measure up to the standard".
If all you're saying is that the player using 3 toons is less common than the player using 5 toons. We agree.
If you add to that the assertion that some people don't like 3v3, we still agree.
I just think we should be cautious about using language that implies you're saying something significantly more - and different.
Bottom line is, one of the main reasons people don’t like 3v3 is they aren’t used to it and it requires adapting and thinking outside the “commonly used” set up.
It’s that simple
i agree.
I just also happen to think (and maybe you do too) that we shouldn't listen to those folks. Because the idea that we shouldn't do anything that isn't like what we're already used to is a recipe for stagnation, boredom, and the death of the game.
Some people don't like new or unfamiliar things. I get it. But I won't recommend avoiding new things just because those people exist.
3v3 only GAC makes no sense as this game is based on 5v5 everywhere else.
There are no way to test 3v3 or play competitive 3v3 anywhere else in the game so having a competitive tournament based on 3v3 doesnt really make sense.
It makes as much sense as having a 1v1 or 2v2 or 9v9 tournament to see who has the best roster.
If you have been farming and building teams of 5 for almost 5 full years then the game decides well 3v3 is the new competitive mode and all your 5 man synergy teams are not useful in GAC that would be a disappointment for most people in my opinion.
Consider this what if the NBA made 10% of the games for 2020 only 3v3 games. Would the owners who built 5 man teams be happy or disappointed?
If the NBA became a 3v3 only league that would be bad for owners who built their teams around having 5 players active on the court at all times. Sure it's different and not the normal but that's not a good thing imo because it doesnt reward owners who have built up strong 5 man teams which was the goal ever since the NBA started (same with swgoh).
If enough people want 3v3 NBA or 3v3 SWGOH then a new league should be made for these people. Swgoh could add a 3v3 option for people who want 3v3 but the majority of people have been building up 5 man teams should not be forced to play 3v3 combat, especially when players cant practice or test 3v3 anywhere else in the game there is no 3v3 arena, no 3v3 challenges, no 3v3 normal or hard battles, no 3 man raids so why is gac 3v3?
Seriously this is like the NBA making all games in August 3v3 but every other month and the actual playoffs are 5v5. Or maybe NFL games are 8 on 8 but only for November otherwise its 11 on 11, or baseball games with 7 on 7 instead of 9v9.
Hockey games with 3v3? this makes no sense in any competitive sport or game.
The best scenario would be:
- if upon joining gac players have to select a GAC type (3v3 or 5v5). This is a win win win because it solves several additional recurring player complaints such as
1) all the posts about the accidental joining of GAC- now there would be a confirmation screen (the select gac type)
2) all the posts about disappearing GAC basically the people who clicked on the screen but didnt press join (or pressed it with a bad wifi signal) so they ultimately missed joining. - now the process is more involved and they will know it sidnt register if they sidnt get asked what mode to pick.
3) complaints about 3v3 people who prefer 3v3 can select 3v3...those who like 5v5 can play 5v5. - people usually react better when they have the freedom to choose rather than being forced to do something like stay home or play 3v3.
No more 3v3 unless they ban GLs, and I am someone with an ult Rey who will also have SLKR in a few weeks.
The GLs are bad enough in 5v5, but in 3v3 they are absolutely broken, Ult Rey especially. There is one specific comp you can place that I am positive nothing can beat unless you mirror it with the exact same team and have a slower Rey. That is absolutely garbage. It absolutely wrecks Kyber chances if you keep getting brackets with a bunch of Reys because you're almost guaranteed to only clear 2 and 2/3 of a zone. I am well aware of the dummy team strat and the fact that SLKR has a chance vs some Rey 3v3 comps, but the broken Ult Rey comp will not succumb to either of those, at least I have yet to see any proof of it.
Replies
This is what’s wrong with 3v3 IMO though. It’s a half baked mode that frustrates people because it’s not used anywhere else. I say either go all out with 3v3 and incorporate it all over the game and maybe even design 3v3 only abilities for characters or don’t use it at all.
The mode is GAC not 3v3. 3v3 is just a variant. Really isn't any different from having ally toons available in some modes but not others and even 5v5 isn't pure these days with the introduction of Geo Brood Alpha and ARC Trooper.
The idea that the whole game is supposed to be 5v5 is a steaming load of bovine waste byproduct.
LS/DS/Cantina/Mod battles - asymmetrical with ally slot, 6v{x}
TB - asymmetrical, not 5v5
Fleet - 3v3 before first RIs
GAC - 5v5 or 3v3 and under-squadding encouraged in both
And as I stated previously, the introduction of Brood Alpha and ARC Trooper blows up the argument that 5 is the standard squad size, period.
So again, any assertion that 5v5 is the predominant setup is a great steaming pile of bovine waste byproduct.
* LS/DS/Cantina/Mod battles - ally slot: 6 char teams
DS Geo TB - ally slot: 6 char teams
GAC - 3 char teams for 3v3 and under-squadding encouraged and rewarded in all variants
Summoned Brute / Turret - available in most game modes for a 6 char team and there is no reason to think that they will be the last summoned chars
So no the 5 man squad is not the "standard". It just isn't, period.
So the whole thing is unlikely to ever happen.
I think you’re stretching a bit here.
LS/DS/etc. - you set a 5 toon squad and then add an ally afterwards. There is even some randomness in the choice of borrowed toons you can select from.
Summons are the same - you use a 5 toon team and calling the 6th is an ability of those 5. The synergy is “built in” with the summoning character and the amount of theory crafting based on that summoned toon is pretty minimal. The TB summon is the same - there is no ability to theory craft that 6th slot as we only have the one option for a 6th.
Someone else mentioned ships. I believe that is irrelevant because the ship composition is identical in 3v3 and 5v5, as well as other game modes - its the standard ship configuration.
GAC is also a 5-toon squad, although you have the option to use fewer. I mean, you can do that in other modes as well.
It’s a bit disingenuous to suggest that 3v3 is not a unique configuration that we rarely see, as it only appears on GAC occasionally and not anywhere else. 5v5 teams are what we work from in essentially all game modes.
Saying that most restaurants in Canada serve beef in some form or another is probably true. Restaurant after restaurant across the country and you get beef noodle soup in Pho restaurants, beef burgers at White Spot or Triple Os or Wendy's, steaks in hotel restaurants, spaghetti & meatballs at the local, greasy italian place, and on and on and on.
It's common to serve beef. It's not "the standard". Restaurants don't have to serve beef. It's not wrong to create a vegetarian restaurant or a Chick Fil'A. If mom says she's taking you The Naam, she's not committing a sin. She's not doing something she's not supposed to do, because they don't serve beef. She's not violating your rights.
All this about how 5-person teams are "The Standard™" is just a way of saying that other teams are wrong. They're not wrong. They're just not as common.
And people who are arguing that something being less common is the same as something being bad are betraying a tendency which they should work to resist, less they fall into the same trap that school teachers of old used to do, when they would smack left-handed children for using their left hands to write.
Being right handed isn't "The Standard". It's just more common.
3v3 is as old as Omega Battles from 2016. It's always been around. It's never been as common as 5v5 in arena or 5v3 and 5v1 in raids or even 6v6+ in LS/DS/Cantina, but it's been around since before the level cap hit 80. In fact, now that I think of it, 3v3 is the mode in a couple of the tutorial battles when you first create an account and before you hit level 5. You fight 3v3 before you ever have a single chance to fight 5v5.
If you find yourself unprepared for a style of fighting that's been around since the game began, maybe the problem isn't that 3v3 is harder. Maybe it's that you simply aren't as flexible as other players.
Agreed. But "standard" - and even "norm" - have meanings beyond just "the most common". The people reading you can't tell if you mean more than what is obviously true, that 5vX is the most common play mode or if you're saying,
In a conversation such as this where some people (not you, but some people) are saying that 3v3 should not happen, the multiple meanings of "standard" and "norm" just create confusion. It sounds like you're saying that other things are "wrong", that they don't "measure up to the standard".
If all you're saying is that the player using 3 toons is less common than the player using 5 toons. We agree.
If you add to that the assertion that some people don't like 3v3, we still agree.
I just think we should be cautious about using language that implies you're saying something significantly more - and different.
i agree.
I just also happen to think (and maybe you do too) that we shouldn't listen to those folks. Because the idea that we shouldn't do anything that isn't like what we're already used to is a recipe for stagnation, boredom, and the death of the game.
Some people don't like new or unfamiliar things. I get it. But I won't recommend avoiding new things just because those people exist.
There are no way to test 3v3 or play competitive 3v3 anywhere else in the game so having a competitive tournament based on 3v3 doesnt really make sense.
It makes as much sense as having a 1v1 or 2v2 or 9v9 tournament to see who has the best roster.
If you have been farming and building teams of 5 for almost 5 full years then the game decides well 3v3 is the new competitive mode and all your 5 man synergy teams are not useful in GAC that would be a disappointment for most people in my opinion.
Consider this what if the NBA made 10% of the games for 2020 only 3v3 games. Would the owners who built 5 man teams be happy or disappointed?
If the NBA became a 3v3 only league that would be bad for owners who built their teams around having 5 players active on the court at all times. Sure it's different and not the normal but that's not a good thing imo because it doesnt reward owners who have built up strong 5 man teams which was the goal ever since the NBA started (same with swgoh).
If enough people want 3v3 NBA or 3v3 SWGOH then a new league should be made for these people. Swgoh could add a 3v3 option for people who want 3v3 but the majority of people have been building up 5 man teams should not be forced to play 3v3 combat, especially when players cant practice or test 3v3 anywhere else in the game there is no 3v3 arena, no 3v3 challenges, no 3v3 normal or hard battles, no 3 man raids so why is gac 3v3?
Seriously this is like the NBA making all games in August 3v3 but every other month and the actual playoffs are 5v5. Or maybe NFL games are 8 on 8 but only for November otherwise its 11 on 11, or baseball games with 7 on 7 instead of 9v9.
Hockey games with 3v3? this makes no sense in any competitive sport or game.
- if upon joining gac players have to select a GAC type (3v3 or 5v5). This is a win win win because it solves several additional recurring player complaints such as
1) all the posts about the accidental joining of GAC- now there would be a confirmation screen (the select gac type)
2) all the posts about disappearing GAC basically the people who clicked on the screen but didnt press join (or pressed it with a bad wifi signal) so they ultimately missed joining. - now the process is more involved and they will know it sidnt register if they sidnt get asked what mode to pick.
3) complaints about 3v3 people who prefer 3v3 can select 3v3...those who like 5v5 can play 5v5. - people usually react better when they have the freedom to choose rather than being forced to do something like stay home or play 3v3.
+1
Right on!
The GLs are bad enough in 5v5, but in 3v3 they are absolutely broken, Ult Rey especially. There is one specific comp you can place that I am positive nothing can beat unless you mirror it with the exact same team and have a slower Rey. That is absolutely garbage. It absolutely wrecks Kyber chances if you keep getting brackets with a bunch of Reys because you're almost guaranteed to only clear 2 and 2/3 of a zone. I am well aware of the dummy team strat and the fact that SLKR has a chance vs some Rey 3v3 comps, but the broken Ult Rey comp will not succumb to either of those, at least I have yet to see any proof of it.