Hey, y'all.
I tracked down a designer for some thoughts on the video. Hope this helps clear up some things.
---
DESIGNER FEEDBACK:
Note on how Max Protection changes work: When Max Protection is increased or decreased, the unit's Protection is also increased or decreased by the same integer amount.
1:40 - He says Protection looks unaffected. However, that's how Max Protection changes work visually when at 100% Protection. If you are at 100% Protection, the bar will stay at 100% visually when you increase or decrease Max Protection.
2:28 - He counts the 8,623 damage twice, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:34 - He doesn't count the 14,687 damage hit at the end of the counter attacks, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:39 - He says the counter attacks dealt about 20% of Luke's Protection in damage going off of the bar. However, he's counting the extra half-pip that exists to help maintain the visual presentation of the bar (which slopes down at the ends); it was actually ~4/15 pips or ~26% of Luke's Protection.
3:00 - He assumes stat adjustments stack multiplicatively, but they don't; they stack additively. This means that -80% is being added to +70% (from the Galactic Legend unique ability and Luke being at R7) for a total of -10% from Luke's base Max Protection (before the 100% Mastery increase comes into play).
With proper numbers:
8,623 + 3,907 + 9,894 + 14,687 = 37,111
37,111 / 0.26 = 142,734
142,734 / 0.9 = 158,593 base Max Protection (estimated)
3:10 - He says that Linked is dealing percent damage, which it is not. It is modifying Max Protection, so it does not interact with the Galactic Legend unique ability.
4:09 - He says that General Skywalker won't take a turn because he's been Feared. Fear doesn't stop a character from taking turns, it simply prevents the character from using an ability until the effect expires. So Skywalker takes his turn, triggering the Linked Max Protection reduction, doesn't use an ability due to Fear, and then his turn is over. Also incorrectly called "skips his turn" at 4:20.
4:22 - The visual change in the Protection bar here is because the game removes from Protection the exact amount of Max Protection that was removed. This causes the percentage fill to be different (e.g. 7/10 = 70%, 2/5 = 40%). General Skywalker's Protection bar is gone because he has reached 0 or less Max Protection. As stated earlier, Luke is not taking any damage here so the Galactic Legend unique ability does not interact with this stat modification.
4:43 - He says that the AI interaction is not working as intended. The functionality of stat modifications is not affected by the AI. If he simply meant the functionality on defense, that also has no effect on stat modifications. I can guarantee that everything is working as intended here.
5:00 - Just want to reiterate that this effect is not a damaging effect, so there is no interaction with the Galactic Legend unique ability's damage reduction.
5:24 - The granted ability's damage is based on Luke's base Max Protection, which is the value he had when he entered battle. This means that both increases and decreases to his Max Protection over the course of battle will not impact the damage or recovery portions of Inherited Teachings.
- Side note: When referenced in abilities, "base [stat]" refers to the stat as the unit entered battle, meaning it does factor in mods. As such, modding Jedi Master Luke Skywalker with additional Max Protection will increase Inherited Teachings' damage and recovery.
5:37 - Yes.
6:05 - The people that responded to him are correct that modifying Max Protection is not dealing damage, and no, nothing is going wrong. There are just incorrect assumptions being made regarding how the game works.
Hey Doja!
Many thanks for giving a nice detailed response to my video. This has really cleared up a lot that had me confused about this. It took a lot of brainstorming (and further brainstorming after this video was made), and altering of my assumptions on how this ability works to come through, but you've really highlighted what has gone on here, so thanks!
I guess I'm a little disappointed here that this is the intended interaction between these two GLs, as it seems a little punitive to render GL Luke's protection null and void after three turns of linked characters, but I'm sure we'll work around it. It's not that I take issue with his max protection being reduced in general (GAS GL counters work in much the same way be reducing max hp), but more the extreme nature in which it is applied - 80% is huge.
3:00 - He assumes stat adjustments stack multiplicatively, but they don't; they stack additively. This means that -80% is being added to +70% (from the Galactic Legend unique ability and Luke being at R7) for a total of -10% from Luke's base Max Protection (before the 100% Mastery increase comes into play).
...does GL Luke's leadership add an additional 20% to his own protection, and not just allies? Would that effectively create an additive multiplier of 1.9 to his base max protection? I mean, it won't make much of a difference in this matchup, but it would be useful for calculating effective protection.
To be fair, my earlier math was definitely on the fly, I'm sure you can forgive a mistake or two :P. The main problem here was just under base assumptions, and I can hold my hand up and say when I'm wrong.
I really do appreciate the response to my video, and I don't take it as a personally - these new kits are very involved and complex so there's bound to be some learning curve involved . Thanks again!
Check out my content on YouTube...search for Scrybe Gaming!
That is useful to know that max protection changes stack additively the way things like offense bonuses do. I'd like to point out that in that case, Luke gets another 20% max protection from his leader, so he is still at +10% after the first reduction. This makes his total 142,734/1.1 = 129,758, which actually makes more sense. Although he also gets another 10,350 from his Mastery bonus...so is this hard added before or after his max protection bonuses? Is his protection after mods actually 119,408?
I'm a little confused yet on what exactly is being removed the next time...if he took 37,111 damage and then 12,699 from Revan, he is at 142,734-49,810=92,924. After Anakin's turn, he'd be at 30%, or 38,927. So is the protection being removed from 142,734, which would be 103,807? Because that is more than what he had left. But if it's from the 129,758 it would be 90,831, so he should have 2,093 left. So is that little bit left in the video 2,093/38,927? About 5%? It looks like maybe more is left than that.
Hey, y'all.
I tracked down a designer for some thoughts on the video. Hope this helps clear up some things.
---
DESIGNER FEEDBACK:
Note on how Max Protection changes work: When Max Protection is increased or decreased, the unit's Protection is also increased or decreased by the same integer amount.
1:40 - He says Protection looks unaffected. However, that's how Max Protection changes work visually when at 100% Protection. If you are at 100% Protection, the bar will stay at 100% visually when you increase or decrease Max Protection.
2:28 - He counts the 8,623 damage twice, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:34 - He doesn't count the 14,687 damage hit at the end of the counter attacks, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:39 - He says the counter attacks dealt about 20% of Luke's Protection in damage going off of the bar. However, he's counting the extra half-pip that exists to help maintain the visual presentation of the bar (which slopes down at the ends); it was actually ~4/15 pips or ~26% of Luke's Protection.
3:00 - He assumes stat adjustments stack multiplicatively, but they don't; they stack additively. This means that -80% is being added to +70% (from the Galactic Legend unique ability and Luke being at R7) for a total of -10% from Luke's base Max Protection (before the 100% Mastery increase comes into play).
With proper numbers:
8,623 + 3,907 + 9,894 + 14,687 = 37,111
37,111 / 0.26 = 142,734
142,734 / 0.9 = 158,593 base Max Protection (estimated)
3:10 - He says that Linked is dealing percent damage, which it is not. It is modifying Max Protection, so it does not interact with the Galactic Legend unique ability.
4:09 - He says that General Skywalker won't take a turn because he's been Feared. Fear doesn't stop a character from taking turns, it simply prevents the character from using an ability until the effect expires. So Skywalker takes his turn, triggering the Linked Max Protection reduction, doesn't use an ability due to Fear, and then his turn is over. Also incorrectly called "skips his turn" at 4:20.
4:22 - The visual change in the Protection bar here is because the game removes from Protection the exact amount of Max Protection that was removed. This causes the percentage fill to be different (e.g. 7/10 = 70%, 2/5 = 40%). General Skywalker's Protection bar is gone because he has reached 0 or less Max Protection. As stated earlier, Luke is not taking any damage here so the Galactic Legend unique ability does not interact with this stat modification.
4:43 - He says that the AI interaction is not working as intended. The functionality of stat modifications is not affected by the AI. If he simply meant the functionality on defense, that also has no effect on stat modifications. I can guarantee that everything is working as intended here.
5:00 - Just want to reiterate that this effect is not a damaging effect, so there is no interaction with the Galactic Legend unique ability's damage reduction.
5:24 - The granted ability's damage is based on Luke's base Max Protection, which is the value he had when he entered battle. This means that both increases and decreases to his Max Protection over the course of battle will not impact the damage or recovery portions of Inherited Teachings.
- Side note: When referenced in abilities, "base [stat]" refers to the stat as the unit entered battle, meaning it does factor in mods. As such, modding Jedi Master Luke Skywalker with additional Max Protection will increase Inherited Teachings' damage and recovery.
5:37 - Yes.
6:05 - The people that responded to him are correct that modifying Max Protection is not dealing damage, and no, nothing is going wrong. There are just incorrect assumptions being made regarding how the game works.
Hey Doja!
Many thanks for giving a nice detailed response to my video. This has really cleared up a lot that had me confused about this. It took a lot of brainstorming (and further brainstorming after this video was made), and altering of my assumptions on how this ability works to come through, but you've really highlighted what has gone on here, so thanks!
I guess I'm a little disappointed here that this is the intended interaction between these two GLs, as it seems a little punitive to render GL Luke's protection null and void after three turns of linked characters, but I'm sure we'll work around it. It's not that I take issue with his max protection being reduced in general (GAS GL counters work in much the same way be reducing max hp), but more the extreme nature in which it is applied - 80% is huge.
3:00 - He assumes stat adjustments stack multiplicatively, but they don't; they stack additively. This means that -80% is being added to +70% (from the Galactic Legend unique ability and Luke being at R7) for a total of -10% from Luke's base Max Protection (before the 100% Mastery increase comes into play).
...does GL Luke's leadership add an additional 20% to his own protection, and not just allies? Would that effectively create an additive multiplier of 1.9 to his base max protection? I mean, it won't make much of a difference in this matchup, but it would be useful for calculating effective protection.
To be fair, my earlier math was definitely on the fly, I'm sure you can forgive a mistake or two :P. The main problem here was just under base assumptions, and I can hold my hand up and say when I'm wrong.
I really do appreciate the response to my video, and I don't take it as a personally - these new kits are very involved and complex so there's bound to be some learning curve involved . Thanks again!
I think one work around is to use bonus protection. People have already been running Wat to create a Luke timeout squad. But under normal applications, I'm wondering how Ezra would do...if he calls Luke to assist with his special, he will give him 40% bonus protection which should activate his taunt, even if his max protection is at 0.
Hey, y'all.
I tracked down a designer for some thoughts on the video. Hope this helps clear up some things.
---
DESIGNER FEEDBACK:
Note on how Max Protection changes work: When Max Protection is increased or decreased, the unit's Protection is also increased or decreased by the same integer amount.
1:40 - He says Protection looks unaffected. However, that's how Max Protection changes work visually when at 100% Protection. If you are at 100% Protection, the bar will stay at 100% visually when you increase or decrease Max Protection.
2:28 - He counts the 8,623 damage twice, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:34 - He doesn't count the 14,687 damage hit at the end of the counter attacks, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:39 - He says the counter attacks dealt about 20% of Luke's Protection in damage going off of the bar. However, he's counting the extra half-pip that exists to help maintain the visual presentation of the bar (which slopes down at the ends); it was actually ~4/15 pips or ~26% of Luke's Protection.
3:00 - He assumes stat adjustments stack multiplicatively, but they don't; they stack additively. This means that -80% is being added to +70% (from the Galactic Legend unique ability and Luke being at R7) for a total of -10% from Luke's base Max Protection (before the 100% Mastery increase comes into play).
With proper numbers:
8,623 + 3,907 + 9,894 + 14,687 = 37,111
37,111 / 0.26 = 142,734
142,734 / 0.9 = 158,593 base Max Protection (estimated)
3:10 - He says that Linked is dealing percent damage, which it is not. It is modifying Max Protection, so it does not interact with the Galactic Legend unique ability.
4:09 - He says that General Skywalker won't take a turn because he's been Feared. Fear doesn't stop a character from taking turns, it simply prevents the character from using an ability until the effect expires. So Skywalker takes his turn, triggering the Linked Max Protection reduction, doesn't use an ability due to Fear, and then his turn is over. Also incorrectly called "skips his turn" at 4:20.
4:22 - The visual change in the Protection bar here is because the game removes from Protection the exact amount of Max Protection that was removed. This causes the percentage fill to be different (e.g. 7/10 = 70%, 2/5 = 40%). General Skywalker's Protection bar is gone because he has reached 0 or less Max Protection. As stated earlier, Luke is not taking any damage here so the Galactic Legend unique ability does not interact with this stat modification.
4:43 - He says that the AI interaction is not working as intended. The functionality of stat modifications is not affected by the AI. If he simply meant the functionality on defense, that also has no effect on stat modifications. I can guarantee that everything is working as intended here.
5:00 - Just want to reiterate that this effect is not a damaging effect, so there is no interaction with the Galactic Legend unique ability's damage reduction.
5:24 - The granted ability's damage is based on Luke's base Max Protection, which is the value he had when he entered battle. This means that both increases and decreases to his Max Protection over the course of battle will not impact the damage or recovery portions of Inherited Teachings.
- Side note: When referenced in abilities, "base [stat]" refers to the stat as the unit entered battle, meaning it does factor in mods. As such, modding Jedi Master Luke Skywalker with additional Max Protection will increase Inherited Teachings' damage and recovery.
5:37 - Yes.
6:05 - The people that responded to him are correct that modifying Max Protection is not dealing damage, and no, nothing is going wrong. There are just incorrect assumptions being made regarding how the game works.
You need a raise and CG needs to fire all of your predecessors.
I think one work around is to use bonus protection. People have already been running Wat to create a Luke timeout squad. But under normal applications, I'm wondering how Ezra would do...if he calls Luke to assist with his special, he will give him 40% bonus protection which should activate his taunt, even if his max protection is at 0.
Yeah, I've seen the timeout vid, but it does lack in the DPS department. Ezra is a good shout. Would require modding GL Luke for max health instead of protection - and you can get his health to some CHUNKY numbers.
I'd like to see a build without Wat though. So maybe doubling down on the bonus protection route, you can add in GMY -his Battle Meditation provides Protection Up (30%)which also operates off max health. Kanan's second special also provides Prot Up (40%) for 2 turns. So we have options to work with, at least.
Check out my content on YouTube...search for Scrybe Gaming!
Hey, y'all.
I tracked down a designer for some thoughts on the video. Hope this helps clear up some things.
---
DESIGNER FEEDBACK:
Note on how Max Protection changes work: When Max Protection is increased or decreased, the unit's Protection is also increased or decreased by the same integer amount.
1:40 - He says Protection looks unaffected. However, that's how Max Protection changes work visually when at 100% Protection. If you are at 100% Protection, the bar will stay at 100% visually when you increase or decrease Max Protection.
2:28 - He counts the 8,623 damage twice, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:34 - He doesn't count the 14,687 damage hit at the end of the counter attacks, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:39 - He says the counter attacks dealt about 20% of Luke's Protection in damage going off of the bar. However, he's counting the extra half-pip that exists to help maintain the visual presentation of the bar (which slopes down at the ends); it was actually ~4/15 pips or ~26% of Luke's Protection.
3:00 - He assumes stat adjustments stack multiplicatively, but they don't; they stack additively. This means that -80% is being added to +70% (from the Galactic Legend unique ability and Luke being at R7) for a total of -10% from Luke's base Max Protection (before the 100% Mastery increase comes into play).
With proper numbers:
8,623 + 3,907 + 9,894 + 14,687 = 37,111
37,111 / 0.26 = 142,734
142,734 / 0.9 = 158,593 base Max Protection (estimated)
3:10 - He says that Linked is dealing percent damage, which it is not. It is modifying Max Protection, so it does not interact with the Galactic Legend unique ability.
4:09 - He says that General Skywalker won't take a turn because he's been Feared. Fear doesn't stop a character from taking turns, it simply prevents the character from using an ability until the effect expires. So Skywalker takes his turn, triggering the Linked Max Protection reduction, doesn't use an ability due to Fear, and then his turn is over. Also incorrectly called "skips his turn" at 4:20.
4:22 - The visual change in the Protection bar here is because the game removes from Protection the exact amount of Max Protection that was removed. This causes the percentage fill to be different (e.g. 7/10 = 70%, 2/5 = 40%). General Skywalker's Protection bar is gone because he has reached 0 or less Max Protection. As stated earlier, Luke is not taking any damage here so the Galactic Legend unique ability does not interact with this stat modification.
4:43 - He says that the AI interaction is not working as intended. The functionality of stat modifications is not affected by the AI. If he simply meant the functionality on defense, that also has no effect on stat modifications. I can guarantee that everything is working as intended here.
5:00 - Just want to reiterate that this effect is not a damaging effect, so there is no interaction with the Galactic Legend unique ability's damage reduction.
5:24 - The granted ability's damage is based on Luke's base Max Protection, which is the value he had when he entered battle. This means that both increases and decreases to his Max Protection over the course of battle will not impact the damage or recovery portions of Inherited Teachings.
- Side note: When referenced in abilities, "base [stat]" refers to the stat as the unit entered battle, meaning it does factor in mods. As such, modding Jedi Master Luke Skywalker with additional Max Protection will increase Inherited Teachings' damage and recovery.
5:37 - Yes.
6:05 - The people that responded to him are correct that modifying Max Protection is not dealing damage, and no, nothing is going wrong. There are just incorrect assumptions being made regarding how the game works.
You need a raise and CG needs to fire all of your predecessors.
Hey, y'all.
I tracked down a designer for some thoughts on the video. Hope this helps clear up some things.
---
DESIGNER FEEDBACK:
Note on how Max Protection changes work: When Max Protection is increased or decreased, the unit's Protection is also increased or decreased by the same integer amount.
1:40 - He says Protection looks unaffected. However, that's how Max Protection changes work visually when at 100% Protection. If you are at 100% Protection, the bar will stay at 100% visually when you increase or decrease Max Protection.
2:28 - He counts the 8,623 damage twice, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:34 - He doesn't count the 14,687 damage hit at the end of the counter attacks, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:39 - He says the counter attacks dealt about 20% of Luke's Protection in damage going off of the bar. However, he's counting the extra half-pip that exists to help maintain the visual presentation of the bar (which slopes down at the ends); it was actually ~4/15 pips or ~26% of Luke's Protection.
3:00 - He assumes stat adjustments stack multiplicatively, but they don't; they stack additively. This means that -80% is being added to +70% (from the Galactic Legend unique ability and Luke being at R7) for a total of -10% from Luke's base Max Protection (before the 100% Mastery increase comes into play).
With proper numbers:
8,623 + 3,907 + 9,894 + 14,687 = 37,111
37,111 / 0.26 = 142,734
142,734 / 0.9 = 158,593 base Max Protection (estimated)
3:10 - He says that Linked is dealing percent damage, which it is not. It is modifying Max Protection, so it does not interact with the Galactic Legend unique ability.
4:09 - He says that General Skywalker won't take a turn because he's been Feared. Fear doesn't stop a character from taking turns, it simply prevents the character from using an ability until the effect expires. So Skywalker takes his turn, triggering the Linked Max Protection reduction, doesn't use an ability due to Fear, and then his turn is over. Also incorrectly called "skips his turn" at 4:20.
4:22 - The visual change in the Protection bar here is because the game removes from Protection the exact amount of Max Protection that was removed. This causes the percentage fill to be different (e.g. 7/10 = 70%, 2/5 = 40%). General Skywalker's Protection bar is gone because he has reached 0 or less Max Protection. As stated earlier, Luke is not taking any damage here so the Galactic Legend unique ability does not interact with this stat modification.
4:43 - He says that the AI interaction is not working as intended. The functionality of stat modifications is not affected by the AI. If he simply meant the functionality on defense, that also has no effect on stat modifications. I can guarantee that everything is working as intended here.
5:00 - Just want to reiterate that this effect is not a damaging effect, so there is no interaction with the Galactic Legend unique ability's damage reduction.
5:24 - The granted ability's damage is based on Luke's base Max Protection, which is the value he had when he entered battle. This means that both increases and decreases to his Max Protection over the course of battle will not impact the damage or recovery portions of Inherited Teachings.
- Side note: When referenced in abilities, "base [stat]" refers to the stat as the unit entered battle, meaning it does factor in mods. As such, modding Jedi Master Luke Skywalker with additional Max Protection will increase Inherited Teachings' damage and recovery.
5:37 - Yes.
6:05 - The people that responded to him are correct that modifying Max Protection is not dealing damage, and no, nothing is going wrong. There are just incorrect assumptions being made regarding how the game works.
Hey Doja!
Many thanks for giving a nice detailed response to my video. This has really cleared up a lot that had me confused about this. It took a lot of brainstorming (and further brainstorming after this video was made), and altering of my assumptions on how this ability works to come through, but you've really highlighted what has gone on here, so thanks!
I guess I'm a little disappointed here that this is the intended interaction between these two GLs, as it seems a little punitive to render GL Luke's protection null and void after three turns of linked characters, but I'm sure we'll work around it. It's not that I take issue with his max protection being reduced in general (GAS GL counters work in much the same way be reducing max hp), but more the extreme nature in which it is applied - 80% is huge.
3:00 - He assumes stat adjustments stack multiplicatively, but they don't; they stack additively. This means that -80% is being added to +70% (from the Galactic Legend unique ability and Luke being at R7) for a total of -10% from Luke's base Max Protection (before the 100% Mastery increase comes into play).
...does GL Luke's leadership add an additional 20% to his own protection, and not just allies? Would that effectively create an additive multiplier of 1.9 to his base max protection? I mean, it won't make much of a difference in this matchup, but it would be useful for calculating effective protection.
To be fair, my earlier math was definitely on the fly, I'm sure you can forgive a mistake or two :P. The main problem here was just under base assumptions, and I can hold my hand up and say when I'm wrong.
I really do appreciate the response to my video, and I don't take it as a personally - these new kits are very involved and complex so there's bound to be some learning curve involved . Thanks again!
Oh, by all means PLEASE don't take it personally. It seemed like an issue that needed some clarification and I was fortunate enough to find a designer who uncharacteristically had a minute to review and comment. It's pretty in-the-weeds stuff, to be sure.
I'll see what else I can dig up and hopefully get back to you if the designer has some time.
Oh, by all means PLEASE don't take it personally. It seemed like an issue that needed some clarification and I was fortunate enough to find a designer who uncharacteristically had a minute to review and comment. It's pretty in-the-weeds stuff, to be sure.
I'll see what else I can dig up and hopefully get back to you if the designer has some time.
Cheers!
Awesome, look forward to the response . Thanks once again.
Check out my content on YouTube...search for Scrybe Gaming!
Oh, by all means PLEASE don't take it personally. It seemed like an issue that needed some clarification and I was fortunate enough to find a designer who uncharacteristically had a minute to review and comment. It's pretty in-the-weeds stuff, to be sure.
I'll see what else I can dig up and hopefully get back to you if the designer has some time.
Cheers!
Awesome, look forward to the response . Thanks once again.
My head hurts from math now, but here's some follow up answers.
---
DESIGNER FEEDBACK:
Scrybe:
- Yes, his leader ability also applies to him (when we want a unit to exclude themselves from an effect we say "other allies").
- Other increases/decreases to Max Protection would also factor in, so it'd be 1.9 minus 80% for each Linked trigger that has occurred. I was also doing stuff on the fly and completely forgot that his leader ability contributed the extra 20%
crzydroid:
- Correct, the estimated value would be around 129,758 without the Mastery being factored in (I skipped that initially due to time constraints). The Mastery applied in battle is not part of his base (it was not "brought into battle", so to speak), so it's another additive value to toss in there.
That should give us the following:
37,111 damage dealt / ~0.26 = ~142,734
- We need to substract the Max Protection gained from the Mastery increase here
142,734 - 10,350 = 132,384
- Now that we've removed Max Protection modifications that are not based on Luke's base Max Protection, we can divide by the remaining percent modifications to find the estimated base Max Protection
132,384 / 1.1 = 120,349
- From here, we can estimate the amount of Max Protection being removed for each Linked trigger
120,349 * 0.8 = 96,279
- Now we simply calculate the Max Protection and Protection after the second Linked trigger
@CG_Doja_Fett These are really fantastic follow ups and clarifications to a player question and a job really well done in giving us the type of quality response many of us has been asking for. Really great job.
And no. I didn't understand close to half of it (I'll leave that for the smart theorycrafters), but thank you!
Hey, y'all.
I tracked down a designer for some thoughts on the video. Hope this helps clear up some things.
---
DESIGNER FEEDBACK:
Note on how Max Protection changes work: When Max Protection is increased or decreased, the unit's Protection is also increased or decreased by the same integer amount.
1:40 - He says Protection looks unaffected. However, that's how Max Protection changes work visually when at 100% Protection. If you are at 100% Protection, the bar will stay at 100% visually when you increase or decrease Max Protection.
2:28 - He counts the 8,623 damage twice, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:34 - He doesn't count the 14,687 damage hit at the end of the counter attacks, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:39 - He says the counter attacks dealt about 20% of Luke's Protection in damage going off of the bar. However, he's counting the extra half-pip that exists to help maintain the visual presentation of the bar (which slopes down at the ends); it was actually ~4/15 pips or ~26% of Luke's Protection.
3:00 - He assumes stat adjustments stack multiplicatively, but they don't; they stack additively. This means that -80% is being added to +70% (from the Galactic Legend unique ability and Luke being at R7) for a total of -10% from Luke's base Max Protection (before the 100% Mastery increase comes into play).
With proper numbers:
8,623 + 3,907 + 9,894 + 14,687 = 37,111
37,111 / 0.26 = 142,734
142,734 / 0.9 = 158,593 base Max Protection (estimated)
3:10 - He says that Linked is dealing percent damage, which it is not. It is modifying Max Protection, so it does not interact with the Galactic Legend unique ability.
4:09 - He says that General Skywalker won't take a turn because he's been Feared. Fear doesn't stop a character from taking turns, it simply prevents the character from using an ability until the effect expires. So Skywalker takes his turn, triggering the Linked Max Protection reduction, doesn't use an ability due to Fear, and then his turn is over. Also incorrectly called "skips his turn" at 4:20.
4:22 - The visual change in the Protection bar here is because the game removes from Protection the exact amount of Max Protection that was removed. This causes the percentage fill to be different (e.g. 7/10 = 70%, 2/5 = 40%). General Skywalker's Protection bar is gone because he has reached 0 or less Max Protection. As stated earlier, Luke is not taking any damage here so the Galactic Legend unique ability does not interact with this stat modification.
4:43 - He says that the AI interaction is not working as intended. The functionality of stat modifications is not affected by the AI. If he simply meant the functionality on defense, that also has no effect on stat modifications. I can guarantee that everything is working as intended here.
5:00 - Just want to reiterate that this effect is not a damaging effect, so there is no interaction with the Galactic Legend unique ability's damage reduction.
5:24 - The granted ability's damage is based on Luke's base Max Protection, which is the value he had when he entered battle. This means that both increases and decreases to his Max Protection over the course of battle will not impact the damage or recovery portions of Inherited Teachings.
- Side note: When referenced in abilities, "base [stat]" refers to the stat as the unit entered battle, meaning it does factor in mods. As such, modding Jedi Master Luke Skywalker with additional Max Protection will increase Inherited Teachings' damage and recovery.
5:37 - Yes.
6:05 - The people that responded to him are correct that modifying Max Protection is not dealing damage, and no, nothing is going wrong. There are just incorrect assumptions being made regarding how the game works.
Hey, y'all.
I tracked down a designer for some thoughts on the video. Hope this helps clear up some things.
---
DESIGNER FEEDBACK:
Note on how Max Protection changes work: When Max Protection is increased or decreased, the unit's Protection is also increased or decreased by the same integer amount.
1:40 - He says Protection looks unaffected. However, that's how Max Protection changes work visually when at 100% Protection. If you are at 100% Protection, the bar will stay at 100% visually when you increase or decrease Max Protection.
2:28 - He counts the 8,623 damage twice, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:34 - He doesn't count the 14,687 damage hit at the end of the counter attacks, throwing off the total damage calculation.
2:39 - He says the counter attacks dealt about 20% of Luke's Protection in damage going off of the bar. However, he's counting the extra half-pip that exists to help maintain the visual presentation of the bar (which slopes down at the ends); it was actually ~4/15 pips or ~26% of Luke's Protection.
3:00 - He assumes stat adjustments stack multiplicatively, but they don't; they stack additively. This means that -80% is being added to +70% (from the Galactic Legend unique ability and Luke being at R7) for a total of -10% from Luke's base Max Protection (before the 100% Mastery increase comes into play).
With proper numbers:
8,623 + 3,907 + 9,894 + 14,687 = 37,111
37,111 / 0.26 = 142,734
142,734 / 0.9 = 158,593 base Max Protection (estimated)
3:10 - He says that Linked is dealing percent damage, which it is not. It is modifying Max Protection, so it does not interact with the Galactic Legend unique ability.
4:09 - He says that General Skywalker won't take a turn because he's been Feared. Fear doesn't stop a character from taking turns, it simply prevents the character from using an ability until the effect expires. So Skywalker takes his turn, triggering the Linked Max Protection reduction, doesn't use an ability due to Fear, and then his turn is over. Also incorrectly called "skips his turn" at 4:20.
4:22 - The visual change in the Protection bar here is because the game removes from Protection the exact amount of Max Protection that was removed. This causes the percentage fill to be different (e.g. 7/10 = 70%, 2/5 = 40%). General Skywalker's Protection bar is gone because he has reached 0 or less Max Protection. As stated earlier, Luke is not taking any damage here so the Galactic Legend unique ability does not interact with this stat modification.
4:43 - He says that the AI interaction is not working as intended. The functionality of stat modifications is not affected by the AI. If he simply meant the functionality on defense, that also has no effect on stat modifications. I can guarantee that everything is working as intended here.
5:00 - Just want to reiterate that this effect is not a damaging effect, so there is no interaction with the Galactic Legend unique ability's damage reduction.
5:24 - The granted ability's damage is based on Luke's base Max Protection, which is the value he had when he entered battle. This means that both increases and decreases to his Max Protection over the course of battle will not impact the damage or recovery portions of Inherited Teachings.
- Side note: When referenced in abilities, "base [stat]" refers to the stat as the unit entered battle, meaning it does factor in mods. As such, modding Jedi Master Luke Skywalker with additional Max Protection will increase Inherited Teachings' damage and recovery.
5:37 - Yes.
6:05 - The people that responded to him are correct that modifying Max Protection is not dealing damage, and no, nothing is going wrong. There are just incorrect assumptions being made regarding how the game works.
To be clear, if Sow Discord was meant to say "stacking," then I think Anakin lost 80% when Luke took a turn and then again when he took his own turn, so he'd be at 0. But I'm not sure why Luke's acts the way it does.
It could also be that the max protection value that it is using on luke is not counting the 70% gained (at R7) from GL unique, requiring 3 turns of linked enemies to go to 0. Would not be the first time it was using the in battle value was not being used.
142,734 - 96,279 = 46,455 Max Protection remaining
9,344 / 46,455 = 20.1%
(I didn't go back and count the pips, but this sounds about right from what I remember seeing)
I track that, except that it doesn't count the additional 12,699 hit that Darth Revan did. When you factor that in, the value goes negative, but he's shown to have some protection left. That's what I was confused about.
However, in trying to count the pips and doing my own calculation, I'm willing to accept that part of the problem is estimation error. Whether you divide the damage done by 0.26 or 0.2666 results in a difference of over 3,000 max protection points. And while it's easy enough to assume that the game either rounds or truncates and you should use the 0.26 value, it also got me thinking that counting the pips can only give an estimate. If you are saying there are 15 total pips including the large, differently shaped end pieces, that means each pip accounts for 6.66% of a character's protection. However, the actual values of protection obviously differ from character to character, and the total damage dealt to them can also vary a great deal. I highly doubt that after being damaged, the characters only lose protection in 6.66% increments. There's going to be a lot of in between. And whether or not that half pip actually shows a portion of the 6.66% that is missing, I don't know. But it stands to reason that estimating the numbers by trying to count pips (which is a nightmare given how well my eyes can focus on things that small), you will only ever get a ball park. But that ball park can end up being off by thousands of points if you are trying to do something like this. So I'm willing to say that everything is working as intended, and any apparent discrepancies in the calculations are due to estimation error.
Which leads me to another plug if you speak to the dev team again: It is past time we had X/Y counters for protection, health, and tm in the bar at the top of the screen next to the portrait. Right now, it is just a huge bar going across the screen that doesn't give us any more information than the little bars over their heads. It's completely redundant. It would be great if we could get some actual values listed there. Also for your own characters. And maybe when you tap on them to bring up that box with the list of debuffs it could be in there too.
When in doubt, check out either CubsFanHan, AhnaldT101 or Bulldog.
These three are fast when it comes to getting footage of new characters.
Except with the exception of bulldog, itsjustian and clash they won't be able to explain or scrutinise what's going on in the video they are showing, amidst all the shouting and "I don't know guys, this doesn't look like working right"s to me.
When in doubt, check out either CubsFanHan, AhnaldT101 or Bulldog.
These three are fast when it comes to getting footage of new characters.
Except with the exception of bulldog, itsjustian and clash they won't be able to explain or scrutinise what's going on in the video they are showing, amidst all the shouting and "I don't know guys, this doesn't look like working right"s to me.
@CG_Doja_Fett great start to your new job! It's great to see some communication and interaction with the community. You've already interacted more with us than any of your predecessors including @CG_SBCrumb. Hope to see more of this. Keep it up!
Hey, y'all.
I tracked down a designer for some thoughts on the video. Hope this helps clear up some things.
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DESIGNER FEEDBACK:
Note on how Max Protection changes work: When Max Protection is increased or decreased, the unit's Protection is also increased or decreased by the same integer amount.
1:40 - He says Protection looks unaffected. However, that's how Max Protection changes work visually when at 100% Protection. If you are at 100% Protection, the bar will stay at 100% visually when you increase or decrease Max Protection.
2:39 - He says the counter attacks dealt about 20% of Luke's Protection in damage going off of the bar. However, he's counting the extra half-pip that exists to help maintain the visual presentation of the bar (which slopes down at the ends); it was actually ~4/15 pips or ~26% of Luke's Protection.
Two things then, should the visuals be tweaked, and should GL GML be this weak? If he can't get his ultimate off under AI then something is clearly wrong, end of story.
@CG_Doja_Fett great start to your new job! It's great to see some communication and interaction with the community. You've already interacted more with us than any of your predecessors including @CG_SBCrumb. Hope to see more of this. Keep it up!
I concur this was amazing feedback and an amazing post, would love if it continues. However, let's not compare and contrast @CG_Doja_Fett and @CG_SBCrumb as we don't know what the scope of their responsibilities and allowances are. Let's just be happy with what we are getting and hope it continues without any other qualifiers needed.
Replies
Hey Doja!
Many thanks for giving a nice detailed response to my video. This has really cleared up a lot that had me confused about this. It took a lot of brainstorming (and further brainstorming after this video was made), and altering of my assumptions on how this ability works to come through, but you've really highlighted what has gone on here, so thanks!
I guess I'm a little disappointed here that this is the intended interaction between these two GLs, as it seems a little punitive to render GL Luke's protection null and void after three turns of linked characters, but I'm sure we'll work around it. It's not that I take issue with his max protection being reduced in general (GAS GL counters work in much the same way be reducing max hp), but more the extreme nature in which it is applied - 80% is huge.
Also, can you clarify here: ...does GL Luke's leadership add an additional 20% to his own protection, and not just allies? Would that effectively create an additive multiplier of 1.9 to his base max protection? I mean, it won't make much of a difference in this matchup, but it would be useful for calculating effective protection.
To be fair, my earlier math was definitely on the fly, I'm sure you can forgive a mistake or two :P. The main problem here was just under base assumptions, and I can hold my hand up and say when I'm wrong.
I really do appreciate the response to my video, and I don't take it as a personally - these new kits are very involved and complex so there's bound to be some learning curve involved
I'm a little confused yet on what exactly is being removed the next time...if he took 37,111 damage and then 12,699 from Revan, he is at 142,734-49,810=92,924. After Anakin's turn, he'd be at 30%, or 38,927. So is the protection being removed from 142,734, which would be 103,807? Because that is more than what he had left. But if it's from the 129,758 it would be 90,831, so he should have 2,093 left. So is that little bit left in the video 2,093/38,927? About 5%? It looks like maybe more is left than that.
I think one work around is to use bonus protection. People have already been running Wat to create a Luke timeout squad. But under normal applications, I'm wondering how Ezra would do...if he calls Luke to assist with his special, he will give him 40% bonus protection which should activate his taunt, even if his max protection is at 0.
You need a raise and CG needs to fire all of your predecessors.
Yeah, I've seen the timeout vid, but it does lack in the DPS department. Ezra is a good shout. Would require modding GL Luke for max health instead of protection - and you can get his health to some CHUNKY numbers.
I'd like to see a build without Wat though. So maybe doubling down on the bonus protection route, you can add in GMY -his Battle Meditation provides Protection Up (30%)which also operates off max health. Kanan's second special also provides Prot Up (40%) for 2 turns. So we have options to work with, at least.
Crumb >>>>
Oh, by all means PLEASE don't take it personally. It seemed like an issue that needed some clarification and I was fortunate enough to find a designer who uncharacteristically had a minute to review and comment. It's pretty in-the-weeds stuff, to be sure.
I'll see what else I can dig up and hopefully get back to you if the designer has some time.
Cheers!
Awesome, look forward to the response
My head hurts from math now, but here's some follow up answers.
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DESIGNER FEEDBACK:
Scrybe:
- Yes, his leader ability also applies to him (when we want a unit to exclude themselves from an effect we say "other allies").
- Other increases/decreases to Max Protection would also factor in, so it'd be 1.9 minus 80% for each Linked trigger that has occurred. I was also doing stuff on the fly and completely forgot that his leader ability contributed the extra 20%
crzydroid:
- Correct, the estimated value would be around 129,758 without the Mastery being factored in (I skipped that initially due to time constraints). The Mastery applied in battle is not part of his base (it was not "brought into battle", so to speak), so it's another additive value to toss in there.
That should give us the following:
- 37,111 damage dealt / ~0.26 = ~142,734
- We need to substract the Max Protection gained from the Mastery increase here- 142,734 - 10,350 = 132,384
- Now that we've removed Max Protection modifications that are not based on Luke's base Max Protection, we can divide by the remaining percent modifications to find the estimated base Max Protection- 132,384 / 1.1 = 120,349
- From here, we can estimate the amount of Max Protection being removed for each Linked trigger- 120,349 * 0.8 = 96,279
- Now we simply calculate the Max Protection and Protection after the second Linked trigger- 142,734 - 37,111 - 96,279 = 9,344 Protection remaining
- 142,734 - 96,279 = 46,455 Max Protection remaining
- 9,344 / 46,455 = 20.1%
(I didn't go back and count the pips, but this sounds about right from what I remember seeing)And no. I didn't understand close to half of it (I'll leave that for the smart theorycrafters), but thank you!
Jokes aside, this helps a lot. Good to see everything’s working out in the end even if it’s a lot of math.
@Kyno
This is what im looking for.
@CG_Doja_Fett
Thanks for this breakdown.
These three are fast when it comes to getting footage of new characters.
So what your saying is I was right
I track that, except that it doesn't count the additional 12,699 hit that Darth Revan did. When you factor that in, the value goes negative, but he's shown to have some protection left. That's what I was confused about.
However, in trying to count the pips and doing my own calculation, I'm willing to accept that part of the problem is estimation error. Whether you divide the damage done by 0.26 or 0.2666 results in a difference of over 3,000 max protection points. And while it's easy enough to assume that the game either rounds or truncates and you should use the 0.26 value, it also got me thinking that counting the pips can only give an estimate. If you are saying there are 15 total pips including the large, differently shaped end pieces, that means each pip accounts for 6.66% of a character's protection. However, the actual values of protection obviously differ from character to character, and the total damage dealt to them can also vary a great deal. I highly doubt that after being damaged, the characters only lose protection in 6.66% increments. There's going to be a lot of in between. And whether or not that half pip actually shows a portion of the 6.66% that is missing, I don't know. But it stands to reason that estimating the numbers by trying to count pips (which is a nightmare given how well my eyes can focus on things that small), you will only ever get a ball park. But that ball park can end up being off by thousands of points if you are trying to do something like this. So I'm willing to say that everything is working as intended, and any apparent discrepancies in the calculations are due to estimation error.
Which leads me to another plug if you speak to the dev team again: It is past time we had X/Y counters for protection, health, and tm in the bar at the top of the screen next to the portrait. Right now, it is just a huge bar going across the screen that doesn't give us any more information than the little bars over their heads. It's completely redundant. It would be great if we could get some actual values listed there. Also for your own characters. And maybe when you tap on them to bring up that box with the list of debuffs it could be in there too.
Except with the exception of bulldog, itsjustian and clash they won't be able to explain or scrutinise what's going on in the video they are showing, amidst all the shouting and "I don't know guys, this doesn't look like working right"s to me.
Great now @Clash2Far head will get bigger
HOOOOOOOOOLY Sheet, CG, was that so hard???
Two things then, should the visuals be tweaked, and should GL GML be this weak? If he can't get his ultimate off under AI then something is clearly wrong, end of story.
I almost forgot what communication looked like but now I remember.
I concur this was amazing feedback and an amazing post, would love if it continues. However, let's not compare and contrast @CG_Doja_Fett and @CG_SBCrumb as we don't know what the scope of their responsibilities and allowances are. Let's just be happy with what we are getting and hope it continues without any other qualifiers needed.