Mod removal cost and mod UI

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WhosTheBossk83
29 posts Member
edited May 18
I am assuming the rationale is to discourage mod swapping so we farm more mods. Unfortunately many modes of the game require you to swap mods to have success. Additionally, it is fun to use a toon in various ways to enjoy their versatility and make use of different squad configurations which also often requires mod swapping. IMO charging credits for mod changes and forcing us to continue to use the least helpful UI in the game (mods) simply discourages fun and creativity. All players’ toons and mods represent major investments of time and often money. Why not let players freely use those investments as they choose and express their creativity without a credit charge? Why not overhaul the mod UI to further encourage such creativity so shuffling mods becomes logistically that much easier? Perhaps we could use those extra credits to farm more mods. Seriously consider it!!! IMO the unfriendly mod UI and the credit crunch to swap mods is the most senseless point of this game’s design.

Replies

  • I agree... and while I'm excited for the "ship load" of changes to come... maybe we need some MODern upgrades too.
  • TVF
    30978 posts Member
    Credit crunch is an early to mid game issue. Even my 3m alt has no issues maintaining a 150m floor.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • WhosTheBossk83
    29 posts Member
    edited May 18
    I would argue that credits can always find a use, especially in the grind for better mods. If you disagree, you may not be playing as competitively as others. The credit crunch is endless for those who pressure mods competitively and swap them often to maximize performance and show creativity in TB, TW, and GAC. The point is, why should CG charge away those resources for tinkering with an asset players have already earned, especially (as you pointed out) in the early and mid game.
    Post edited by WhosTheBossk83 on
  • TVF wrote: »
    Credit crunch is an early to mid game issue. Even my 3m alt has no issues maintaining a 150m floor.

    I would also add, the idea that players should have to calculate into their credits budget the cost of mod swaps before TB, GAC, and TW is just ridiculous. I have spoken with many players who run out of credits doing this mod swapping dance. It happens all the time to players in my guild who all have 6M+ accnts so that they can do their best in the more difficult “end-game” content, which flys in the face of what you stated.
  • Kyno
    31547 posts Moderator
    edited May 18
    I would argue that credits can always find a use, especially in the grind for better mods. If you disagree, you may not be playing as competitively as others. The credit crunch is endless for those who pressure mods competitively and swap them often to maximize performance and show creativity in TB, TW, and GAC. The point is, why should CG charge away those resources for tinkering with an asset players have already earned, especially (as you pointed out) in the early and mid game.

    That is simply not true, you cannot spend credits fast enough on mods, upgrades and other aspects of mod hunting as you hit the later game. Even if you have a very poor idea of how to hunt mods and just buy anything for credits.

    Yes the general idea was to lower the amount of swapping, but that has come and gone when they saw how players were using them.

    I would guess from your above posts that you have a bunch of players who either have a really bad mod library, and/or go way above and beyond necessity swapping for events. My guild at 330M GP, has many players in that GP range and I have never heard a single compliant about credits.
  • Nikoms565
    14242 posts Member
    Credits issue aside, the mod interface and "tools" are abysmal. If the goal by CG was to discourage mod-swapping by making it a time-consuming, clumsy, mundane chore, they absolutely nailed it.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Kyno
    31547 posts Moderator
    Yes UI changes are needed.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    I would argue that credits can always find a use, especially in the grind for better mods. If you disagree, you may not be playing as competitively as others. The credit crunch is endless for those who pressure mods competitively and swap them often to maximize performance and show creativity in TB, TW, and GAC. The point is, why should CG charge away those resources for tinkering with an asset players have already earned, especially (as you pointed out) in the early and mid game.

    That is simply not true, you cannot spend credits fast enough on mods, upgrades and other aspects of mod hunting as you hit the later game. Even if you have a very poor idea of how to hunt mods and just buy anything for credits.

    Yes the general idea was to lower the amount of swapping, but that has come and gone when they saw how players were using them.

    I would guess from your above posts that you have a bunch of players who either have a really bad mod library, and/or go way above and beyond necessity swapping for events. My guild at 330M GP, has many players in that GP range and I have never heard a single compliant about credits.

    Kyno, you are always the CG-biased discussion buzzkill. Why would I come on here and lie? ... you saying something definitive like “is simply not true” is typical Kyno and not helpful — 5 people have already liked the post so clearly there is some validity. Just because your experience is different doesn’t mean people who post here don’t have valid points. My guild is the same GP as yours and people run out of credits often. Same thing happens in both my arena shard chats. My mod library is exceptional (tyvm) and if you hawk the mod store, you can spend the credits. Sooooooo let’s not make assumptions or get dogmatic.

    “Going above and beyond” lol, what does that even mean?!! Honestly?! Additionally, why NOT let players be creative with their mods and leave their credits alone there. What is wrong with saying “they are your mods, swap away at no cost” — would the game not be more interesting for many players?

    Lastly, the mod UI ... many complaints all over forums here and on Discord. Nailed the guild search UI, now let’s address mods too.
  • WhosTheBossk83
    29 posts Member
    edited May 18
    Kyno wrote: »
    Yes UI changes are needed.

    If you change the UI to maximally facilitate mod swapping between events, many more people will be swapping mods and the credits issue will only be exacerbated. Both need to change together. I have talked to many people don’t swap mods because getting back to other loadouts is such a pain in the ****.
  • TVF
    30978 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Credit crunch is an early to mid game issue. Even my 3m alt has no issues maintaining a 150m floor.

    I would also add, the idea that players should have to calculate into their credits budget the cost of mod swaps before TB, GAC, and TW is just ridiculous. I have spoken with many players who run out of credits doing this mod swapping dance. It happens all the time to players in my guild who all have 6M+ accnts so that they can do their best in the more difficult “end-game” content, which flys in the face of what you stated.

    Those players are bad at managing their credits. It's a resource management game and people that run out of credits with 6m accounts are deservedly getting what they ask for.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno
    31547 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    I would argue that credits can always find a use, especially in the grind for better mods. If you disagree, you may not be playing as competitively as others. The credit crunch is endless for those who pressure mods competitively and swap them often to maximize performance and show creativity in TB, TW, and GAC. The point is, why should CG charge away those resources for tinkering with an asset players have already earned, especially (as you pointed out) in the early and mid game.

    That is simply not true, you cannot spend credits fast enough on mods, upgrades and other aspects of mod hunting as you hit the later game. Even if you have a very poor idea of how to hunt mods and just buy anything for credits.

    Yes the general idea was to lower the amount of swapping, but that has come and gone when they saw how players were using them.

    I would guess from your above posts that you have a bunch of players who either have a really bad mod library, and/or go way above and beyond necessity swapping for events. My guild at 330M GP, has many players in that GP range and I have never heard a single compliant about credits.

    Kyno, you are always the CG-biased discussion buzzkill. Why would I come on here and lie? ... you saying something definitive like “is simply not true” is typical Kyno and not helpful — 5 people have already liked the post so clearly there is some validity. Just because your experience is different doesn’t mean people who post here don’t have valid points. My guild is the same GP as yours and people run out of credits often. Same thing happens in both my arena shard chats. My mod library is exceptional (tyvm) and if you hawk the mod store, you can spend the credits. Sooooooo let’s not make assumptions or get dogmatic.

    “Going above and beyond” lol, what does that even mean?!! Honestly?! Additionally, why NOT let players be creative with their mods and leave their credits alone there. What is wrong with saying “they are your mods, swap away at no cost” — would the game not be more interesting for many players?

    Lastly, the mod UI ... many complaints all over forums here and on Discord. Nailed the guild search UI, now let’s address mods too.

    I never said you lied. (i would also point out that trying to call out another player for not being as competitive (with no evidence) would also fall into the dogmatic approach you are warning against.)

    above and beyond, is when a player moves mods to do better in a game mode that they would already have done fine in. There are points where you can gain an edge, but its not always the case and wasting credits or any resource to make a change that doesn't actually make a real difference can hurt you in the long run....i.e. - you may run low on a resource that has been made fairly prolific, in the interest of feeling creative.

    there is also a hand in hand with gear, players using mods to account for lower gear is a choice, but again it may cost you in the long run.

    letting players be creative is great, but that is a player choice, and in a resource management game, if you are making that choice and running out of something, there is a cause to that problem and it doesnt' always mean the game is the issue.

    the game is about resource management, and if a player values their creative approach to a game mode over resources, then that is on them. the situation is not dire and they have made credits much easier to come by, to relieve that.

    I am not speaking for everyone, and neither are you. I can assure you that many many more players have no issues with mods and credits than players who are running out due to moving mods, especially as you approach the later stages of the game. as always, the better approach while also providing feedback is to find a better way to work within the system, because change is slow and changes like this may never come. Many players are managing their resources and you may want to ask for help.

    I already stated the UI needs help, and I believe that is going on in the background with other things, but no this has never come up as part of that change.

    Credits where a problem, absolutely, but they made the change they are going to make around that issue.
  • The fact that you’re trying to say “maybe you’re not competitive with mods” to @TVF is all the indication I need for the amount of clues you have.

    Maybe you could get competitive about mods and farm enough of them to not have to endlessly swap. And if you’re swapping “for fun”, then you’re complaining about CG not catering to your own choices.

    tl;dr git gud
  • The fact that you’re trying to say “maybe you’re not competitive with mods” to @TVF is all the indication I need for the amount of clues you have.

    Maybe you could get competitive about mods and farm enough of them to not have to endlessly swap. And if you’re swapping “for fun”, then you’re complaining about CG not catering to your own choices.

    tl;dr git gud

    I am a player of the game and have an opinion. Get over it. For me, being competitive with mods makes all the sense in the world ... and yes credits are a problem for people who are competitive with them, especially in the end game. Saying credits aren’t an issue late game is not the case for many players. That is the only point I was making to @TVF. I did not mean offense, was simply making an observation. I am talking about user experience and making the game more enjoyable for many. Allowing endless swapping of mods to make the game more FUN sounds like a great idea to me and from my understanding many others that I communicate with about the game. Not asking for catering to me, making suggestions for more fun.
  • TVF
    30978 posts Member
    and yes credits are a problem for people who are competitive with them, especially in the end game. Saying credits aren’t an issue late game is not the case for many players.

    People who are truly competitive manage their resources better than this, especially credits which at end game have no use other than mods.

    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • WhosTheBossk83
    29 posts Member
    edited May 18
    TVF wrote: »
    and yes credits are a problem for people who are competitive with them, especially in the end game. Saying credits aren’t an issue late game is not the case for many players.

    People who are truly competitive manage their resources better than this, especially credits which at end game have no use other than mods.

    Maybe you are competitive with mods then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ... That is why I said “may” ... defining “truly competitive” would be impossible. I am what I would consider competitive with mods (and consider them to often make the difference in other competitive scenarios). For this reason I certainly don’t have a base of 150M credits. I know many who run into the credit crunch late game. Just a counter argument to your original post. I think removing charging for mod swaps would increase the fun and creativity in the game. That is all.
  • I run JML. I have three different comps with JML that I must use to climb arena. Each of those comps has three different mod setups. It costs me 250k each time I switch comps to switch the mods with it. I do at least one 50 crystal refresh on my way up and usually come within 1 battle from using all my refreshes.

    Then I do my arena climb. I don't have enough 6 dot mods to just throw on all my pilots so it's about another 200k to prep my fleet.

    Then I swap my mods for whatever the galactic challenge happens to be... that sometimes takes a little adjusting here or there... I probably blow through anywhere between 250k-500k swapping mods between different teams to nail down the feats.

    Then when my guild runs the Challenge rancor I swap my mods for each team I use (including the garbage teams). I have 8 teams... it's about 2 mill in swapping.

    Then there's lightside geo tb (I won't mention Darkseid geo tb, because it's nowhere near as mod dependant). I swap mods for each mission I can throw my hat into. And it's about 250k a swap.

    Not to mention my KAM mods are off limits. I can't upgrade them or anything for fear they'll screw up the ranges and ruin my capability at the KAM run.

    Now, you all seem to be great at math and boast about your credit efficiency... I'll let you math that all out, but I'm fairly certain I'm spending more that I'm making in credits.

    Also, when your roster gets into the 8+ million range you're probably not spending the credits on gearing/relicing/leveling characters anymore that you've got some leeway with your funds, but that's what % of the game player base?

    I assume I'm swapping mods as intended to get the greatest value out of my roster depending on the instance.

    Perhaps if you're not swapping mods as often as I and others, you're doing it wrong.
  • TVF
    30978 posts Member
    edited May 18
    Perhaps if you're not swapping mods as often as I and others, you're doing it wrong.

    I make my payout spot every day in both arenas. I swap for every TB battle and Crancor. Every great once in a while for GC or conquest but it's rare I need to. Have great mods and a 150m credit cushion.

    What am I doing wrong exactly?
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • The fact that you’re trying to say “maybe you’re not competitive with mods” to @TVF is all the indication I need for the amount of clues you have.

    Maybe you could get competitive about mods and farm enough of them to not have to endlessly swap. And if you’re swapping “for fun”, then you’re complaining about CG not catering to your own choices.

    tl;dr git gud

    I am a player of the game and have an opinion. Get over it. For me, being competitive with mods makes all the sense in the world ... and yes credits are a problem for people who are competitive with them, especially in the end game. Saying credits aren’t an issue late game is not the case for many players. That is the only point I was making to @TVF. I did not mean offense, was simply making an observation. I am talking about user experience and making the game more enjoyable for many. Allowing endless swapping of mods to make the game more FUN sounds like a great idea to me and from my understanding many others that I communicate with about the game. Not asking for catering to me, making suggestions for more fun.

    Odd thing to state to someone who is also a player of the game and has an opinion? I'm sorry, is there something you need to get over as well?

    Post your swgoh.gg or ally code so we can see your mods and how competitive you are.

    And, yes, something you think would be more fun is catering to you, not the player base. Some people hate mods and don't even fool with them. Some people farm enough mods to not have to move them for every single event. Some people have no issues keeping enough credits on hand to go through a regular day of the game. Those people wouldn't have more "fun" without credits being required to swap mods.
  • I run JML. I have three different comps with JML that I must use to climb arena. Each of those comps has three different mod setups. It costs me 250k each time I switch comps to switch the mods with it. I do at least one 50 crystal refresh on my way up and usually come within 1 battle from using all my refreshes.

    Then I do my arena climb. I don't have enough 6 dot mods to just throw on all my pilots so it's about another 200k to prep my fleet.

    Then I swap my mods for whatever the galactic challenge happens to be... that sometimes takes a little adjusting here or there... I probably blow through anywhere between 250k-500k swapping mods between different teams to nail down the feats.

    Then when my guild runs the Challenge rancor I swap my mods for each team I use (including the garbage teams). I have 8 teams... it's about 2 mill in swapping.

    Then there's lightside geo tb (I won't mention Darkseid geo tb, because it's nowhere near as mod dependant). I swap mods for each mission I can throw my hat into. And it's about 250k a swap.

    Not to mention my KAM mods are off limits. I can't upgrade them or anything for fear they'll screw up the ranges and ruin my capability at the KAM run.

    Now, you all seem to be great at math and boast about your credit efficiency... I'll let you math that all out, but I'm fairly certain I'm spending more that I'm making in credits.

    Also, when your roster gets into the 8+ million range you're probably not spending the credits on gearing/relicing/leveling characters anymore that you've got some leeway with your funds, but that's what % of the game player base?

    I assume I'm swapping mods as intended to get the greatest value out of my roster depending on the instance.

    Perhaps if you're not swapping mods as often as I and others, you're doing it wrong.

    I take 1 every night in squad arena with any of my 4 GLs and never swap mods for any of them.

    I take my rotation spot in fleet arena every night with either Negotiator or Malevolence and never swap any mods onto or off of a single pilot.

    I got 66 waves completed in the LSTB just finished, and I swapped mods on 2 characters for combat missions throughout (JKL to make him slow, Cara Dune to make her fast). KAM is another swap mission, of course.

    I have never once swapped any mods for Galactic Challenge and have earned max crate in every single one that didn’t require BAM in the early days of his release.

    I do swap them for Crancor, I’ll admit. Thank goodness I’m doing something right!

    /sarcasm. If you need to swap mods this much every day, you simply don’t have enough good mods.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Perhaps if you're not swapping mods as often as I and others, you're doing it wrong.

    I make my payout spot every day in both arenas. I swap for every TB battle and Crancor. Every great once in a while for GC or conquest but it's rare I need to. Have great mods and a 150m credit cushion.

    What am I doing wrong exactly?

    I am sure you do just fine. To your points, I know many FTPers from day one who have had years to farm most useful toons such that they can mostly hoard and sit on a cushion of gear and credits until the next thing they want to farm. Perhaps this is you. Maybe not. For me, when you add (to what you described) leveling 7-10 mods/day to see secondaries and roll outcomes while buying 1-2 mods/week that are ideal from the mod store (what I consider to be necessary to keep an expanding roster competitive with mods) I often run negative on credits. It being charged to swap mods would help there, in addition to allowing more unlimited creativity as I described.
  • WhosTheBossk83
    29 posts Member
    edited May 18
    @DarjeloSalas You have a roster (4 GL) that seems to put you in the top 1-2% category. Congrats. Not all have that. Also, if he wasn’t charged for mod swaps, he would likely have the resources to expand his competitive mod inventory, which was my original point.
  • TVF
    30978 posts Member
    Post your gg link please.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Roster =/= mods.

    People will only have enough mods to not need to swap them all the time if they farm enough of them.

    The only way I can conceive of someone running out of credits by exposing mod secondaries is if they are levelling all the grey mods they obtain. That is poor credit management, imo.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Post your gg link please.

    Gladly, need some credits to re-equip all my mods correctly after LSTB. Give me a moment so they appear correctly on any query as only equipped mods show up.
  • Roster =/= mods.

    People will only have enough mods to not need to swap them all the time if they farm enough of them.

    The only way I can conceive of someone running out of credits by exposing mod secondaries is if they are levelling all the grey mods they obtain. That is poor credit management, imo.

    Agreed, but having 4GL makes your arena climbs much more credit efficient compared to his. And if he farms mods all the time he runs out of credits because of the swapping charges. Making my point more clear.
  • TVF
    30978 posts Member
    Farming mods costs zero credits.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno
    31547 posts Moderator
    Roster =/= mods.

    People will only have enough mods to not need to swap them all the time if they farm enough of them.

    The only way I can conceive of someone running out of credits by exposing mod secondaries is if they are levelling all the grey mods they obtain. That is poor credit management, imo.

    Agreed, but having 4GL makes your arena climbs much more credit efficient compared to his. And if he farms mods all the time he runs out of credits because of the swapping charges. Making my point more clear.

    but forcing a situation (being credit poor), by not using energy to farm mods, and trying to make everything work with a limited set, is not about the credits, its about the plan you are tying to use to redirect your resources and how its not working.

    I only have 2 GLs, I make my top spots in both arenas. I rarely move mods (I hate it) for any recurring PvE events, except for KAM.

    I dont think anyone in this thread is in the 8M range, so this is not about being in the top top end. its about resource management.
  • SierexFenix
    20 posts Member
    edited May 18
    As I've said, if your gp is over 8 mil and you have 4 gls, you really don't have anything to spend your credits on. You're in the top echelon of the game and your arguement is really only valid to you and the rest in that new division 1 tier of the upcoming GAC changes. Good for you, you win at life... here's your star sticker.

    I don't see how posting my .gg profile is going to do anything but give you an avenue to roast... but, if that's how you get your jollies after I've already explained where all my mod credit usage is going. Then roast away...

    https://swgoh.gg/p/[email protected]#$%$#@&
    Post edited by SierexFenix on
  • TVF
    30978 posts Member
    To clarify I asked for OPs gg and I'm 6.3m with 3 GLs and still haven't heard what I'm supposedly doing wrong.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Also, I love how even one of the mods hates moving mods... maybe you could bring the dev crew some donuts for us and suggest a rework on the mod UI. An enjoyable experience for all in every aspect is a win for the game. And I don't know anyone that thinks the mod UI is intuitive.
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