[MEGA] State of the Galaxy: November 2021

Replies

  • Options
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    How much has newer players been earning right now? The amount of players in arena 20 to 1000 is much higher than the ones in 1-20. This simple fact in both new and old shards makes it a net gain for majority even if they are stuck in lower leagues.
  • Options
    Magruffin wrote: »
    LukeDukem8 wrote: »
    Magruffin wrote: »
    DEATHER wrote: »
    Angry are low GP arena focused players, they will have income cut, its same patern like with hard/normal/easy conquest to limit low gp players on rewards to encourage fast roster development

    Bingo. The whole driving force in this game since conception is to earn purps, and you did that by striving to have a top notch arena squad. Rewards for a diverse roster were a joke (ie regular grand arena). Now after 6 years, they've flipped that whole dynamic.

    Why should a player who has built only 1 top squad for arena (and has mediocre mods at best) earn the same amount as a player who has a wide roster, with better mods, and understand the overall roster and strategy better?

    With an inventory collection game, it never made sense to have one single meta team represent an entire roster and to earn one of the most precious commodities off that single team.

    Because the inventory collection you mentioned has always been an afterthought in this game. If you beat your top shard mates, you deserve the top payout. Same as someone only playing a fraction of the time you've been and get top payout. They earned it by beating their peers (read: ppl who joined the game and should have had the same opportunities to grow), which is the same reward across the board. So yeah, pretty dam fair given the shard qualifier
    People who don't have the extra resources to fatten out their rosters are getting screwed, simply because they focused on arena dominating squads, which has been the main game mode/play style since day one.
    It may not have made sense, but that's the way the game was designed and pushed for 6 years. To change it now is ****.

    At some point, it had to change because it's a collection game. The point of earning all the resources is to widen your roster, not just to chase the latest meta. In my opinion, shard arena was a concept that worked 6 years ago, but no longer is viable. You say to change it now is ***, but when then?

    Who doesn't have the extra resources with all of the new changes in the game? you don't only need cc income to widen your roster. 2x shard drops, additional currencies, an additional raid, and extra gear have all been introduced in the last 6 years.
  • Options
    I get this is a kick in the hoojahs for many people, but as someone who works shifts it helps me personally. I can’t change my payout time every week, so it should help my overall income.

    For those in shard chats who are being disadvantaged, I do feel for you (unless you’re in one of the nasty ones). However, I would say that any top arena players should already have an effective GA roster with the crystal advantage they have, so that shouldn’t change their income too much. This is of course dependant on the system cg have come up with working correctly.



    797-722-718
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Options
    Frankto wrote: »
    Frankto wrote: »
    I am 4M GP and taking #1 in Squad Arena every day. I'd really love it if someone could explain to me why my crystal income is going to be 177 lower every day, best case scenario. That's 64.6K crystals a year, minimum, possibly more than twice that.

    You should look again, you are going to be way worse than 177 lower if you are getting 500.

    Closer to 255 lower per day.

    Sadly, yeah. But if I win every single GAC match, I get to lose out on only 177 crystals per day! Woo. -_-

    What a privilege. God forbid I get busy on a GAC day, because you don't earn anything unless you can actually play.

    If you win every match, won't you be moving up and earning more as time goes on? Potentially even more than you could previously?
  • Options
    Skill rating is a joke. GAC is based on how many GL's you have at a certain point. They can't get TW right. What would lead anyone to believe they can get GAC right?

    Skill ceiling is a buzz term to make you believe you can overcome the wallet factor, which you can not. And the reason you can not is because CG wants it that way, otherwise they wouldn't have removed non GL GL counters.

    They really don't care about our opinions though, so really there is no point in discussing it.
  • Options
    LukeDukem8 wrote: »
    DEATHER wrote: »
    Angry are low GP arena focused players, they will have income cut, its same patern like with hard/normal/easy conquest to limit low gp players on rewards to encourage fast roster development

    Is anyone taking into consideration the offset to the cc income for lower players has been 2x shard drops and better gear everywhere for pre g12 gearing?

    This is an interesting point but 1) their timing was wrong. Should have announced the gear related changes AFTER this and 2) higher GP players get the same benefit.

    I'm curious to see how this plays out. There are many benefits to it in the long term, but I don't see how it DOES NOT significantly limit the crystal income of lower GP players given the squad requirements in the higher leagues.

    It will also be interesting to see how this impacts the overall competitiveness of GAC. I have a hunch that players that used to be Kyber end up lower because GP allocation isn't as important, but also EVERYONE will care more because there's a much bigger incentive to making a higher league.
  • Options
    Yes, I think a majority will see an increase or the same crystals. But, this doesn't mean that it's a net positive for the game. The health of the game requires that new spenders are created at the same rate as old spenders retire. If not, then revenue is declining and at some point, the developers will just shut down the game. It's a business, at some point it's going to be a higher ROI to invest resources on another game than SWGOH.

    With squad arena, you could spend a few hundred or a thousand dollars to upgrade one character or team and see an immediate benefit. Now, a few hundred doesn't move the needle since it's one team among many in GAC. Even if the majority of new players see an increase in their crystals, does the new system incentivize spending among new players? Sure, maybe we will see enough people spending tens of thousands at a time to offset the people who stop spending a few hundred a month. I don't know the answer, but I'm skeptical that this will be the case. My fear is that we will see a massive drop in spending from new players and then this will just accelerate the end of the game. I'm not delusional, I know the game will eventually end. But, there's a difference in the game lasting another 10 years and 10 months.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Vishprat wrote: »
    I am really liking the changes. Finally shard competation come to an end. I have been fighting with them for long time. Now I relieved with that. Only people get affected in top 20. However they can still get 500 crystals with few wins.

    Only I have concern about like 4M to 6 M gp how they can move into kyber? And get max crystals. Might be few explanation from CG can help.

    Spend money.

    This entire system is built for you to reach a ceiling and need to spend to get higher.

    Or patiently develop, like all f2p have been doing for years

    Those above you aren’t stopping the development in their rosters. Patiently developing is just treading water. You won’t break through the ceiling by being patient since the ceiling keeps rising.

    If everyone in your bracket has 2 million more GP, patiently developing won’t work since they continue to develop. The only way to close the gap is get frustrated and spend.

    I’ve lost around 5 GAC matchups total in 12 months. In this new system, after a couple of months, I will hope and pray to win 4 of 12.

    GAC has a limited pool of useful characters. A 5M GP account can have the same top X toons as a 7 M GP account.

    You dont need to have all the toons, you need to have a roster built to GAC. So yes patiently and thoughtfully building your roster can have you gaining ground, and not tredding water.

    So you don't want to face players who are as good as you are in GAC and have a similar win ratio?

    Yes this is a change, it's a big change, almost to the point that there will be no comparison between what GAC will be and what it was.

    Does $$$ help a player, yes. Will you hit a point where the only way to progress is to $$$, no.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Options
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
    Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    That depends on a lot of things including future additions of powerful characters, so I can't predict it. But unless there are no powerful additions at all, it will be impossible to fully catch up without spending. How are you so sure?
  • Options
    I love the changes to GAC and Squad Arena! Arena has many issues with the creation of shard mafias, planning your day around your payout time, etc... GAC is the most engaging mode for me personally, and I'm stoked CG is finally making it more important with better rewards.
  • Options
    Absolutely terrible changes, on a personal level i loath it with a passion. However, I can understand the benefits that a large proportion of the player base can achieve from this, but why does SA have to take the full fall? Why not simply halve the rewards from squad and fleet and move those crystals to GAC? so at least there's still something for everyone's efforts.
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Options
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    That depends on a lot of things including future additions of powerful characters, so I can't predict it. But unless there are no powerful additions at all, it will be impossible to fully catch up without spending. How are you so sure?

    How will it be impossible?

    Once you can beat meta teams, and have a solid and somewhat equal top X toons for your bracket, you can move up based on skill. That doesnt require $$.

    Because you can look at the numbers, and look at where the breaking points are, many more players are on the good side of the average.
  • Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
    Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    That depends on a lot of things including future additions of powerful characters, so I can't predict it. But unless there are no powerful additions at all, it will be impossible to fully catch up without spending. How are you so sure?

    How will it be impossible?

    Once you can beat meta teams, and have a solid and somewhat equal top X toons for your bracket, you can move up based on skill. That doesnt require $$.

    Because you can look at the numbers, and look at where the breaking points are, many more players are on the good side of the average.

    So there won't be any new GLs or other strong characters? Because that's the only way how one can catch up without spending.
  • Options
    I'm curious with defenses no longer giving banners how an opponent setting only 1 squad on defense to prevent the game auto-deploying and saving everything for offense will factor into banners.

    I believe in the current GAC if your opponent doesn't set any defense squads in the zone you get the zone cleared banners but no attack win banners. Your opponent doesn't get any of the defense setting banners so it offsets the banners you end up losing on the attacking side so for the match the attacking side ends up on the better side (attacking side loses out on up to 63-64 banners but the defense side loses out on 90 banners).

    If I'm understanding the how it will be in the updated GAC the person setting defense will receive no banners for setting a squad on defense. If they set a single squad on defense and save everything for offense they do not lose out on any banners. The attacker since they can't actually attack a squad loses out on up to 63-64 banners per open slot in a zone.

    As an example lets take a single front zone for kyber 5v5 in the new GAC. There should be 4 teams set on defense. Opponent only sets 1 team. So 3 open spots. The attacker (lets just say they get 60 banners against the 1 team) will get the following banners for clearing that zone.
    - 60 banners against that 1 squad on defense
    - 120 (30 * 4) clear zone with that has 4 defense slots
    - 120 clear zone
    - 300 banners total

    Now if there was actually 4 squads placed on defense and the attacker was able to clear all of them they would get the following banners.
    - 240 (60 * 4) banners clearing all 4 squads on defense with everyone surviving with full health and protection
    - 120 (30 * 4) clear zone with that has 4 defense slots
    - 120 clear zone
    - 480 banners total

    The person on defense has denied the attacker a 180 banners and lost out on none. Granted the attacker had an easier time getting those banner than they would have otherwise and the defender still needs to clear attackers zones but they have a lot more saved for offense now.

    I'm not taking into account the 1 banner per character defeated just for simplicity. I didn't forget about it and I have no idea how it would work for situations like this or someone setting less than 5 characters in a defense squad.

    I know its an edge case scenario but I wonder if this has been taken into account and how. Please correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding.
  • Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.
  • Options
    Gonna stick around @sloweagle

    I will see. This could mean end to me. I don’t understand how they could state in their RA with straight face that high rank arena players who reached higher GP is less time can benefit initially against their peers. They will just get matched up to either older accounts with higher GP/better roster or newer kraken accounts who build a focus
    Roster. I don’t see how players who build higher GP in less accounts can benefit in anyway unless they somehow keep the age of the account into consideration like the squad arena.
  • RTS
    683 posts Member
    Options
    Love the changes, excited for next GAC season!
  • Kyno
    32087 posts Moderator
    Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    Yes they can, just not in every case.
  • Options
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.

    And this means that an account at 4M GP and getting 1st in arena today will have their crystals cut just about in half. They will eventually be able to get back to 500/day, but since they are now bringing in fewer crystals it will take them longer than it would have without this change.
  • Piewalker
    200 posts Member
    edited November 2021
    Options
    Thought with the cash grabbing exec moving on and the gear changes CG was finally getting better, clearly not...so it's just whether this change is greed or just plain stupidity or maybe it's both.
  • Options
    StarSon wrote: »
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    There is a gp threshold that it matters less, but that's much higher, consider the gp threshold where both players will have 110 reliced toons and only difference can be relic levels. I think this starts around 7.5m gp.

    And this means that an account at 4M GP and getting 1st in arena today will have their crystals cut just about in half. They will eventually be able to get back to 500/day, but since they are now bringing in fewer crystals it will take them longer than it would have without this change.

    Yes, sure. Arena toppers are the ones that can possibly have a net loss out of this change. While I'm as such, I'm still glad one of the arenas is going away, because I hate arena.
  • Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    My prediction is you can neither fall or climb more than 3 divisions from wherever you are initially placed. I think gac lovers are missing the overall downside for them. Eventually they’ll end up in a space where three matches they can’t lose based on their and their opponents rosters. Three they can’t win, and six where their skill might let them overcome their opponents advantage or their opponent has the skill to overcome theirs.

    This seems to me to be a net loss from a gameplay perspective for those that enjoyed gac and were going 10-2 or better each time.

    From a crystal perspective, most will see an increase sure, but the longer you’ve played the higher your income and the easier it will be to progress. The shorter your play time you’re less likely to see an increase in crystal income but even if you do it’ll be less so it will be harder to increase your income than under the old SA model.

    But once again the effect on current players is immaterial. A new player is now seeing a crystal income max that is smaller and therefore has less reason to whale. So while I believe the majority of players will eventually see this as a net positive for their crystal income, I also see it being harder for cg to acquire new spenders to replace retiring spenders.
  • Options
    Nauros wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Given some time to think, I see the biggest pitfall in the matchmaking. There are two important parameters, GP and win/loss ratio, and they are not exactly correlated. Two players can have the same win/loss but wildly different GP. Over time, a lot of players across GP will gravitate towards 1:1 w/l, and it will be pure hell. Imagine facing players selected randomly from the entire GP range. Unless, of course, the matchmaking isn't as independent on GP as they claim.

    The GP only affects initial seeding. After that, it's not considered. Only our skill rating matters, which is based on performance. If your skill rating is too high, you'll lose more than you win until you settle into the right spot. If you improve your roster suddenly, you should get some easy wins until your skill rating increases appropriately.

    I know all this. My point is that the same skill rating is achievable with wildly different GP. If you fight your peers and win constantly, you will get the same rating as someone who keeps winning against their peers but at double your GP. Or half. It will be a pure coin toss at that point, assuming that the matchmaking really is independent on GP.

    I fail to see the issue here. Consider two players, one at 5M and one at 8M. Their initial seeding will have them spread very far apart. If they should meet someday, that means that the 8M player has been losing and the 5M player has been winning. In theory, their skill gap should be enough to make the matchup interesting. If it is not, the 5M player will lose some skill rating and the 8M player will gain some back, and the system corrects itself.

    Well, that's the thing I detailed in one of my other posts. Either the initial seeding keeps them separated, and new players (seeded to the bottom) will most likely never get very high, or it doesn't and GP mismatches will be common. The solution would be to let skill rating define your league and division and then pull your 7 opponents for the given run based on GP, but from the SOTG it seems that GP won't be taken into account at all.

    I just don't see why GP should be a metric if you have a skill rating. I'm tired of efficiency rosters getting easy matches. I'm tired of hoarding upgrades for GL farms because it'll adversely affect my matchmaking. Ignoring GP (after the initial seeding, which happens one time, ever), seems like a huge improvement to me.

    "new players (seeded to the bottom)"

    This begs a question. Where will new level 85 players get slotted. At the very bottom with a skill rating of 0 (or whatever the minimum is)?

    GP should be a factor because it is a measure of what you have at your disposal. To use an analogy (always a good idea on the forum!) the previous matchmaking matched casual bikers with winners of tour de france. Purely skill-based one will match bicycles with motorbikes as long as both riders are at the same skill level. Neither sounds very good to me.

    To improve your analogy. It will match a cyclist with a biker only if they are routinely completing the course in the same amount of time. And if that's the case, who cares what contraption they rode on?
  • Options
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    ShaggyB wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    I feel like the folks who say this is going to reduce income across the board are letting slip their chat status. Practically speaking, the maximum number of players per arena shard that could get first place in a day was 24. If you think 24 players (maximum) represent the experience of the rest of the player base then you're pretty out of touch. You weren't earning your crystals, you were part of a cartel that conspired to keep the crystals in their little group.

    For the rest of us, just being in Carbonite 1 is going to give as many daily crystals as we already get.

    So saying that everyone is going to suffer doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The 1% is going to suffer and the rest of us are going to get an increase based on what we deserve, so........

    Sucks to be you. Get good at Grand Arena.

    You do understand there are multiple arena shards, with new ones popping up all the time right.

    You do not like shard chats.... but a newer player that gets #1 because they have the best team in their newer created shard arena will be getting the shaft with this.

    Its always bad to take something from players, its never bad to add something.

    From the discussion we had, there are some cases where it's a decrease, but overall it's an increase.

    When looking at new shards which have the largest active population, this is a blessing, as many of them are averaging a very low income, compared to the average in the new system.

    Perhaps a better explaination is needed. The way im reading it newer players (lvl 85) are going to not be anywhere near kyber payouts.

    Initial gp will lock them in low. Skill will grow them some, but id think that #1 player with a low gp wont be clearing 500 a day

    Yes a small % of players will see lower income, in the situation your are stating.

    Are you sure it will be a small %? If skill rating is all that matters, then new players will eventually hit a wall where they can't win because the high leagues are populated by veterans. Unless they heed Carrie's infamous tweet about catching up, of course...

    Yes I am sure.

    Where do you predict this wall will be?

    Was comparing the 110th toon with a guild mate (11 placements = 22 teams = 110 toons). I'm far and away the inferior player (same number of GLs, both have executors), their mods are better. I don't see how I get beat with the bottom of the rosters being what they are. This was with a 700k GP difference (6.3 to ~7M). A 3GL 5M GP roster would be farcical.

    Smaller GP rosters cannot compete in the higher leagues if the defensive team placements are fixed. Period.

    Yes they can, just not in every case.

    Correct. They can compete...very rarely, under exceptional circumstances and with a life-wasting amount of effort and persistence. :-/
  • Options
    In reality, any change is going to produce a difference in opinions. Some will like it and others will not like it. But, this isn't an election. Even if 99% of the players love the changes, if you hurt the wrong 1%, it could lead to an accelerated death of the game.

    I keep repeating myself because I'm hoping the powers that be see this and consider this real danger to spending from new players. There is a pipeline of spending that keeps the lights on for the game. Every stage of that pipeline is equally important. If this change leads to a big drop in spending from new players, the pipeline will eventually dry up and the game will die. I don't pretend to know the answer but, I want them to consider the risk by the off chance that they didn't think of this. Hopefully, they thought through every possible risk and all is good.

  • Options
    Nauros wrote: »
    Nauros wrote: »
    Given some time to think, I see the biggest pitfall in the matchmaking. There are two important parameters, GP and win/loss ratio, and they are not exactly correlated. Two players can have the same win/loss but wildly different GP. Over time, a lot of players across GP will gravitate towards 1:1 w/l, and it will be pure hell. Imagine facing players selected randomly from the entire GP range. Unless, of course, the matchmaking isn't as independent on GP as they claim.

    The GP only affects initial seeding. After that, it's not considered. Only our skill rating matters, which is based on performance. If your skill rating is too high, you'll lose more than you win until you settle into the right spot. If you improve your roster suddenly, you should get some easy wins until your skill rating increases appropriately.

    I know all this. My point is that the same skill rating is achievable with wildly different GP. If you fight your peers and win constantly, you will get the same rating as someone who keeps winning against their peers but at double your GP. Or half. It will be a pure coin toss at that point, assuming that the matchmaking really is independent on GP.

    I fail to see the issue here. Consider two players, one at 5M and one at 8M. Their initial seeding will have them spread very far apart. If they should meet someday, that means that the 8M player has been losing and the 5M player has been winning. In theory, their skill gap should be enough to make the matchup interesting. If it is not, the 5M player will lose some skill rating and the 8M player will gain some back, and the system corrects itself.

    Skill isnt going to make up for a whole extra roster of top tier teams, especially not when that includes 2+ more GLs.
  • Options
    I like the changes, as a FTP with one GL (SEE, but working on JML), my arena climb to try and get to the top 50 is a pain, especially when someone knocks you down with a minute until payout.

    As an unfocused F2P 4m GP account without even one GL yet, I am not even top 100 yet. The vocal minority hates this change, but the majority of players will love it (just not the ones who post on reddit or forums)

    Grum the third swgoh.gg https://swgoh.gg/p/144884575/
    || Grum the Mighty swgoh.gg || OldBaldGuyGaming Youtube
  • Options
    Geshtianna wrote: »
    That's the problem with averages, where the 11 battles in a single day, each with vastly different requirements, is just extra brainpower and effort that does not correspond with extra rewards.

    This is where personal preference comes in. I would rather play an engaging game mode for an hour than hit auto every 10 minutes for an hour and half. You're entitled to your preference. I'm entitled to mine. Neither of us is wrong as to which is more enjoyable.

    As for rewards, based on what has been released, if I keep a 6-6 record in Kyber 3, I will average the same crystal income as now (1st every day, almost every day needs a refresh). So I'd say there's a reasonable chance I do end up with extra rewards (even if it's just the joy of not needing to do SA).
    Geshtianna wrote: »
    With arena, a win is a win, but in GAC, we're at the mercy of RNG, other players messing with you, and a poor matchmaking system that hasn't been fixed after 2 years since GAC began.

    They have made adjustments to GAC MM in the past. The general consensus was that those were flawed but improved.

    The new system will be completely different. So much so that I'd argue the current MM system has no bearing on what's in store for us.

    SA is also subject to RNG and other players messing with you.
    Geshtianna wrote: »
    That's made worse when GAC attack day coincides with TW attack day, how many battles is that? Then the day after (or before) there's just nothing. No TW, no GAC, just people using their free time to complain about how there's nothing to do.

    What an easy thing for the devs to solve, should they care. Perhaps lobby them to sync up attack phases during the Q&A.
    Geshtianna wrote: »
    And having boring repetitive battles is good.

    Boring is boring. This is a game. I hate boring. I only put up with it because I needed it to enjoy the other modes.
    Geshtianna wrote: »
    Boring is reliable, you already know the result, just go to work and get paid, not having to stress over some randomness of a 50% counter activating and taking away 1 protection and losing GAC by 1 point, or losing a speed tie, or a badly-time resist/miss, or the computer deciding that today you will face someone with half the roster at G1 and other half G13, or someone who has been playing the game a year longer than you but at the same GP and same number of GLs, but far better mods.

    With the changes to MM, I suspect most folks will settle into a W-L ratio fairly close to 50%. While that may be frustrating for some, for many others, it will be liberating. Take me, for example. Last season, I had one loss against a really good opponent, and it was a close match. It should have been exciting. But because GAC has been top 10, Kyber, or bust; it just ruined my whole season. Top 10 was out. Kyber was a lock. None of the remaining matches had much weight to them and the loss was gut wrenching. With the new system, I can lose a few to good opponents and not suffer as much for it.

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