[MEGA] State of the Galaxy: November 2021

Replies

  • TVF
    36566 posts Member
    NicWester wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    @Ravens1113
    SA forces a GL at this point. Nothing else.

    Well, okay. But so does HSTR or you get terrible rewards. So does Galactic Challenge, which will allow you 2nd best rewards every week with a single GL, but will not guarantee you that with 0 GL. This isn't even mentioning LS Geo TB.

    There are plenty of reasons to get a GL, and with the RPS meta you can pick from several (at the very least LV, JML, SEE, and GLOW). So, sure, you can say that for early game players SA might force a GL effort earlier than the player would otherwise choose it, but it also might not. In a lower-gp guild having the only (or one of the only) SLKRs gives you a **massive** boost to the amount of g12 gear you soak up, which means you progress much more quickly by prioritizing a GL than by prioritizing anything else, even GAC-priority squads in a game where GAC's crystal flow has started.

    I will likely have all the crystals that I used to have, and with minimal effort, though I hate GAC and will be unlikely to stay in the highest division because of that (it's likely Kyber-2 for me). That's my choice and though I'm not happy about it, it's not what most worries me.

    No, it's the fact that newer accounts will now be competing directly against older accounts that makes things so dangerous. The facts around whether GAC constrains choices more than Squad Arena (I think it clearly does, but it's not something for which either of us would have conclusive data) are interesting, but I only brought it up because someone else had said that SA constrains player choice without any acknowledgement that even if it forces you to build a specific team, once you have one single team done, you're on to whatever you want for a good long while. With GAC's priority on multiple GL's to block progress with specific required counter-squads (that have been nerfed and are now less reliable), things become much more grindy in GAC than in SA with its "one team & you're good to go!" requirement. So having refuted (or at least complicated) the simple narrative that SA constrains player choice, I'm much more interested in talking about other things that are actually problems with or benefits of the new system, rather than things that are exactly as good or as bad about SA or GAC no matter whether the current system or the recently proposed system is in use.

    So looking at yours and Helmet’s responses this seems a tad more clear.

    The way I see it now is that you need to spruce up that GP to max out those rewards.

    So with these changes….

    Those in newer shards no longer have access to the immediate 500-200 crystals per day to hoard and empower your roster. Now it’s in GAC so that income is reduced. Ok point taken.

    So what they’re doing is trimming the crystal income for newer players trying to induce spending. I think older/heavier accouns will see short term (at the least) in terms of crystals, even after the matchmaking sorts itself out.

    Hmmm this is getting deeper the more it’s discussed. I dig it lol

    Trimming the income of the top of the shard on new players, yes. Increasing the PO most new players will see, also yes.

    Newer shards are going to be bigger and more active. Anyone outside of the top 50-100 has a chance at an increased income, and possibly more depending on refreshes due to activity.

    Anyone outside of the top 100 already could get increased income. Typically all it takes to be in the top 100 was to actually farm a good team and actually do your battles. Quit treating everyone that was below the top 100 as if they were some sort of victim.

    Yes, they will likely benefit from this. But punishing your most active players to even out the income probably won't bode well for the long term health of the game.

    There in lies the problem, "most active" does not mean top payout. Stale shards and shard chats actually allow players to get a higher income with less activity.

    The info we say in our discussion was actually showing that after 1-2 years movement in shards regardless of GP or when they were started, were pretty static.

    I can only speak for my experience, but this is what happened to me. The only time I bother fighting to win is when GAC is active with a Win X Squad Arena Battles feat. Otherwise I take my 101-200 place rewards because why bother if I’m just going to be work my **** off every day for the 100th place reward and then get yelled at because that slot belongs to someone’s friend of a friend?

    Lol who has 100 people in the same hour in their shard.
    I need a new message here. https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Ravens1113 wrote: »
    @Ravens1113
    SA forces a GL at this point. Nothing else.

    Well, okay. But so does HSTR or you get terrible rewards. So does Galactic Challenge, which will allow you 2nd best rewards every week with a single GL, but will not guarantee you that with 0 GL. This isn't even mentioning LS Geo TB.

    There are plenty of reasons to get a GL, and with the RPS meta you can pick from several (at the very least LV, JML, SEE, and GLOW). So, sure, you can say that for early game players SA might force a GL effort earlier than the player would otherwise choose it, but it also might not. In a lower-gp guild having the only (or one of the only) SLKRs gives you a **massive** boost to the amount of g12 gear you soak up, which means you progress much more quickly by prioritizing a GL than by prioritizing anything else, even GAC-priority squads in a game where GAC's crystal flow has started.

    I will likely have all the crystals that I used to have, and with minimal effort, though I hate GAC and will be unlikely to stay in the highest division because of that (it's likely Kyber-2 for me). That's my choice and though I'm not happy about it, it's not what most worries me.

    No, it's the fact that newer accounts will now be competing directly against older accounts that makes things so dangerous. The facts around whether GAC constrains choices more than Squad Arena (I think it clearly does, but it's not something for which either of us would have conclusive data) are interesting, but I only brought it up because someone else had said that SA constrains player choice without any acknowledgement that even if it forces you to build a specific team, once you have one single team done, you're on to whatever you want for a good long while. With GAC's priority on multiple GL's to block progress with specific required counter-squads (that have been nerfed and are now less reliable), things become much more grindy in GAC than in SA with its "one team & you're good to go!" requirement. So having refuted (or at least complicated) the simple narrative that SA constrains player choice, I'm much more interested in talking about other things that are actually problems with or benefits of the new system, rather than things that are exactly as good or as bad about SA or GAC no matter whether the current system or the recently proposed system is in use.

    So looking at yours and Helmet’s responses this seems a tad more clear.

    The way I see it now is that you need to spruce up that GP to max out those rewards.

    So with these changes….

    Those in newer shards no longer have access to the immediate 500-200 crystals per day to hoard and empower your roster. Now it’s in GAC so that income is reduced. Ok point taken.

    So what they’re doing is trimming the crystal income for newer players trying to induce spending. I think older/heavier accouns will see short term (at the least) in terms of crystals, even after the matchmaking sorts itself out.

    Hmmm this is getting deeper the more it’s discussed. I dig it lol

    Trimming the income of the top of the shard on new players, yes. Increasing the PO most new players will see, also yes.

    Newer shards are going to be bigger and more active. Anyone outside of the top 50-100 has a chance at an increased income, and possibly more depending on refreshes due to activity.

    Anyone outside of the top 100 already could get increased income. Typically all it takes to be in the top 100 was to actually farm a good team and actually do your battles. Quit treating everyone that was below the top 100 as if they were some sort of victim.

    Yes, they will likely benefit from this. But punishing your most active players to even out the income probably won't bode well for the long term health of the game.

    There in lies the problem, "most active" does not mean top payout. Stale shards and shard chats actually allow players to get a higher income with less activity.

    The info we say in our discussion was actually showing that after 1-2 years movement in shards regardless of GP or when they were started, were pretty static.

    I can only speak for my experience, but this is what happened to me. The only time I bother fighting to win is when GAC is active with a Win X Squad Arena Battles feat. Otherwise I take my 101-200 place rewards because why bother if I’m just going to be work my **** off every day for the 100th place reward and then get yelled at because that slot belongs to someone’s friend of a friend?

    Lol who has 100 people in the same hour in their shard.

    Definitely not mine, we barely have 300 players. But I got yelled at two years ago and haven’t given a —— since.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Rebmes wrote: »
    If their decisions had been thought out in advance, everyone wouldn't hate Conquest.

    If they had started with Conquest the way it is now, things would be very different than they are right now, it's almost like they had a plan to build and change it the way they did to minimize the fall out, but maybe not.

    If they planned to build and change it the way they did, that's is some seriously terrible planning.
  • SerWulfgar wrote: »

    You make a lot of assumptions about record required for promotion/demotion as well as the gap between A1 and K5. Let's put that aside for a moment.


    Dude. The number of contestant during a single season is fixed. There is no draw in GAC, the binomial distribution applies here by definition. This will result in a Gaussian, again, by definition MOST of the players will score 6/6 in ALL leauges. Go do the math for yourself if you dont believe me.

    And when it comes to the back-and-forth thingie:
    The whole system is pretty much static or will become after few steps of iteration. Simply because there is no entrypoint for newer players here. They will always start at the bottom, you cannot create a 6M account out of thin air. If you give it a thought or two, it is pretty reasonable to assume that the top of A1 will substitute the bottom of K5 when it comes to the masses over and over again. Certain individuals might escape this loop, I am not saying it is impossible, and at the end of the day the human factor indeed does have an effect on your performance, so you might outdo your own self, or underperform for whatever reason. There are 2 factors that can break this by nature: spending money, and finishing all content, and capping everyone at the top. The second is pretty unlikely to happen.


    Okay. If we were to take each of the 12 matches as a coinflip, then I agree you get a binomial distribution on wins. And if W-L record were all that determined your league rank (it doesn't, as I understand it), that means all the 3-9 (and a few 4-8) move down; all the 9-3 (and a few 8-4) move up. I assume that's why you picked those records earlier.

    Here's where I think it falls apart. Let's say I'm in K5. If I go 6-6, while being matched with people with a similar ladder ranking (they said this in the announcement), my ladder ranking will be essentially the same as it was at the start of the season, which means I'd still be K5 and I'd move down. Conversely, if I'm in A1 and I go 6-6, I'll still be A1 and move back up. So I think that even these hypothetical people that are going to oscillate leagues like this will still settle into a 6-6 record over time.

    This depends on how broad the MM is on your ladder ranking. If you were thrown randomly against anyone in Kyber while in K5, then my prediction would fall apart.

  • SerWulfgar wrote: »

    You make a lot of assumptions about record required for promotion/demotion as well as the gap between A1 and K5. Let's put that aside for a moment.


    Dude. The number of contestant during a single season is fixed. There is no draw in GAC, the binomial distribution applies here by definition. This will result in a Gaussian, again, by definition MOST of the players will score 6/6 in ALL leauges. Go do the math for yourself if you dont believe me.

    And when it comes to the back-and-forth thingie:
    The whole system is pretty much static or will become after few steps of iteration. Simply because there is no entrypoint for newer players here. They will always start at the bottom, you cannot create a 6M account out of thin air. If you give it a thought or two, it is pretty reasonable to assume that the top of A1 will substitute the bottom of K5 when it comes to the masses over and over again. Certain individuals might escape this loop, I am not saying it is impossible, and at the end of the day the human factor indeed does have an effect on your performance, so you might outdo your own self, or underperform for whatever reason. There are 2 factors that can break this by nature: spending money, and finishing all content, and capping everyone at the top. The second is pretty unlikely to happen.


    Okay. If we were to take each of the 12 matches as a coinflip, then I agree you get a binomial distribution on wins. And if W-L record were all that determined your league rank (it doesn't, as I understand it), that means all the 3-9 (and a few 4-8) move down; all the 9-3 (and a few 8-4) move up. I assume that's why you picked those records earlier.

    Here's where I think it falls apart. Let's say I'm in K5. If I go 6-6, while being matched with people with a similar ladder ranking (they said this in the announcement), my ladder ranking will be essentially the same as it was at the start of the season, which means I'd still be K5 and I'd move down. Conversely, if I'm in A1 and I go 6-6, I'll still be A1 and move back up. So I think that even these hypothetical people that are going to oscillate leagues like this will still settle into a 6-6 record over time.

    This depends on how broad the MM is on your ladder ranking. If you were thrown randomly against anyone in Kyber while in K5, then my prediction would fall apart.

    Quote from the devpost:
    "After that point, Skill Rating will only be updated through Wins and Losses during a GAC."
    Can you elaborate your thoughts on this topic a little more?


    First and least importanly, the GAC match doesnt need to be a coninflip, still half the population wins it and half the population loses it, with some regard to the byes that occur every now and then.

    Your league rank is of course not solely determined on your W-L but If the winbonus (points) stays worth of 60% of a full clear, approximately, AND the system is favoring the offensive playstyle as they intend to, it will come down to this with so little exceptions that we can ignore them. Two dead characters here, a dropped battle there... It will average out really fast.

    With your 6/6 ranking you will be promoted to A3 or K3, because division promotion is a thing from week2, and you are by definition in the middle of the many. Only league promotion is prohibited during the season. I think this a fundamental point of our disagreement, are you sure you have considered this?

    I know, this is a slight oversimplification, because you have a baseline rating and it shifts slower than this, but you are definitely gravitating towards K3 with a 6/6 ratio. Other people in Kyber league with 0-3, 0-6 etc records are gravitating towards K5 and push you up. We also established already (or so it seemed to me) that only 3-9 and worse performances go down, therefore they are the ones occupying the K5, not the 6-6 players.

    So my point being here... For all we know you cannot go 6/6 in K5. You can go maybe 3-0 in K5 then you are in K4, or, maybe, depending on the algorithm in K1, because heck why not. We dont know if multiple division jumps are enabled, I dont think there was info published on this yet.

    In K4 however, you have all the chances to meet someone from K3 who started this season with a 0-3, or, depending on the algorithm, 1-2 is also possible in some extreme cases (I know, I know, now i am actually making a lot of assumptions). As for how bread is the MM on your rating... based on the TW I am not optimistic at all. We also do not know if cross-division matched are enabled or not. Since they emphasized that cross-league matched are prohibited, I absolutely expect cross-division matchups.

    Anyway. I think my point still stands about some scenarios in which you might wanna avoid promotion if you are maximizing your income. I find this, and the principle which aims for equality of outcome extremely problematic.



  • Ragnarok_COTF
    1776 posts Member
    edited December 2021
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    I know, this is a slight oversimplification, because you have a baseline rating and it shifts slower than this, but you are definitely gravitating towards K3 with a 6/6 ratio.

    I think this is wrong. I don't think we can have any further discussion if we don't agree on this.

    My understanding: 50% win rate, ladder ranking stays the same, you don't change divisions during a season.

    Yours, as I understand it: 50% win rate, you shift towards Div3 within your league.

    Since we don't agree on how the ranking system works, we aren't going to agree on the outcome of it.

    That said, if your understanding is the correct one, then I agree with your predicted problematic outcome and I will not be happy about how they implemented these changes.
  • SerWulfgar wrote: »
    I know, this is a slight oversimplification, because you have a baseline rating and it shifts slower than this, but you are definitely gravitating towards K3 with a 6/6 ratio.

    I think this is wrong. I don't think we can have any further discussion if we don't agree on this.

    My understanding: 50% win rate, ladder ranking stays the same, you don't change divisions during a season.

    Yours, as I understand it: 50% win rate, you shift towards Div3 within your league.

    Since we don't agree on how the ranking system works, we aren't going to agree on the outcome of it.

    That said, if your understanding is the correct one, then I agree with your predicted problematic outcome and I will not be happy about how they implemented these changes.

    you definitely change divisions during seasons. Take a look at the picture in the original devpost:

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025736/uploads/editor/5v/k2mxxo8we62b.png

    "division placements update"
  • SerWulfgar wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    I know, this is a slight oversimplification, because you have a baseline rating and it shifts slower than this, but you are definitely gravitating towards K3 with a 6/6 ratio.

    I think this is wrong. I don't think we can have any further discussion if we don't agree on this.

    My understanding: 50% win rate, ladder ranking stays the same, you don't change divisions during a season.

    Yours, as I understand it: 50% win rate, you shift towards Div3 within your league.

    Since we don't agree on how the ranking system works, we aren't going to agree on the outcome of it.

    That said, if your understanding is the correct one, then I agree with your predicted problematic outcome and I will not be happy about how they implemented these changes.

    you definitely change divisions during seasons. Take a look at the picture in the original devpost:

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025736/uploads/editor/5v/k2mxxo8we62b.png

    "division placements update"

    I didn't say you couldn't change divisions in a season. I said a 6-6 record will keep you where you started.
  • SerWulfgar wrote: »
    SerWulfgar wrote: »
    I know, this is a slight oversimplification, because you have a baseline rating and it shifts slower than this, but you are definitely gravitating towards K3 with a 6/6 ratio.

    I think this is wrong. I don't think we can have any further discussion if we don't agree on this.

    My understanding: 50% win rate, ladder ranking stays the same, you don't change divisions during a season.

    Yours, as I understand it: 50% win rate, you shift towards Div3 within your league.

    Since we don't agree on how the ranking system works, we aren't going to agree on the outcome of it.

    That said, if your understanding is the correct one, then I agree with your predicted problematic outcome and I will not be happy about how they implemented these changes.

    you definitely change divisions during seasons. Take a look at the picture in the original devpost:

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6025736/uploads/editor/5v/k2mxxo8we62b.png

    "division placements update"

    I didn't say you couldn't change divisions in a season. I said a 6-6 record will keep you where you started.

    Fine, lets give it a rest, we can discuss it later, once we see more clearly
  • Have we been given any indication SA will be after crystals are taken? Is there still any incentive to stay atop the shard? Is this our sandbox mode? If so, are we given unlimited battles?
  • SotaDraken
    447 posts Member
    edited December 2021
    Kyno wrote: »
    Rebmes wrote: »
    If their decisions had been thought out in advance, everyone wouldn't hate Conquest.

    If they had started with Conquest the way it is now, things would be very different than they are right now, it's almost like they had a plan to build and change it the way they did to minimize the fall out, but maybe not.

    No matter what their plans were for Conquest, it failed.. The 4 different major SWGOH podcasts had to spend time to explain why Conquest "is not THAT bad" (it is) because the Community (Discord, Reddit, this forum, and YouTube) were very disappointed with the changes. As you were as well.

    Conquest could have been great but now it's a joke..
  • It’s all in the dev post ….


    rurdmd9k7pwh.jpeg
  • I would say in newer Arenas you will see more engagements. Old squad arenas like mine will probably die or change to something like sandbox for people in the discord chat.
  • Big feat managing this kind of game-centric shift and i think you are leaning into strength. Look forward to seeing where you take it.
  • We need more information about how exactly the skill rating works, preferably with an example.

    Ragnorok_COTF's assumption that 6/6 means you stay where you are makes sense to me, but happy to be proven wrong if more information comes to light.
  • The more I think about it, the more ingenious it is (from CGs standpoint):

    - Large GP players are seeded favorably somewhere in kyber, meaning high initial crystal income under the new system. None of them are worse off initially, so this encourages retention or even more engagement at the top end. They still need to perform, else the skill ladder means they will drop and gradually lose income.

    - Issues around matchmaking algorithms go away, since it's now a self-regulating system,

    - After a short while, individual players' performance will asymptote towards 6/6 leading to frustration and a self-perceived lack of progress. I feel this will encourage spending,

    Personally, I'll be taking of hit of between 50-100 crystals per day since I currently climb to #1 everyday in SA typically with 1 refresh, sometimes 2 (net 350-450). I'm keen to find out whether I can transcend my initial seeding in Auro2 and hit low kyber.
  • Nauros
    5429 posts Member
    So, the Q&A pretty much confirms the "low permeability" variant. New players will be seeded somewhere in carbonite, and the layout will change so there will effectively never be a point where further advacement doesn't impact GAC anymore. So much for Kyno's argument. New players will now have the choice to whale out or be stuck with low rewards, the lack of a global ladder and no direct competition with veterans was the only thing keeping the game somewhat beginner friendly. But hey, why do I care? I'm starting in Kyber 1 so I'm pretty much set until the game dies due to a lack of new players...
    And a side note, it looks like the old Q&A format wasn't that bad after all, when they return to it after all the time of looking for something better.
  • I love these changes.

    SA was a pita and also illogical. This is a long term planning & strategy game, so why do I need to spend 20-30 minutes each day at a given hour given minute given second... No. A 1-day long battle is much more user friendly.

    And everybody hates shard mafia. Even some people that are IN the shard mafia.

    I'll also get about 100 more crystals daily, if my calculations are correct. Thank you!

    Btw everybody is going on and on about new players. But you know who this change brings? Returning players!
    If you took a 1 year pause, that your peers kept progressing, you were basically locked out of top 1000, for like, forever. Now, a year ago retired 3mill account is perfectly fine to reinstate. You'll get a decent league, good crystal income. Who doesn't want their old friends to return and play together?

    Also, complaints are about not doing phased transition. Well, guess what, SA now, fleet crystald later, is exactly what phased transition is!
    I'm pretty sure fleet will lose its crystals too in the new few months. Its purpose can be whatever - ship mats so your ships will be stronger in GAC, or just do the same as with SA: add gear/new shard rewards to the fleet store.

    This is the best change that I've seen coming to this game.

  • Btw everybody is going on and on about new players. But you know who this change brings? Returning players!
    If you took a 1 year pause, that your peers kept progressing, you were basically locked out of top 1000, for like, forever. Now, a year ago retired 3mill account is perfectly fine to reinstate. You'll get a decent league, good crystal income. Who doesn't want their old friends to return and play together?

    This is simply not correct. I took a 2 year break myself and was then out of all arenas for the time being. I then skipped the first GLs, saved up and then went to JMK and was part of the meta again. In the GAC I had no problems at all due to my break, because I was drawn to similarly strong opponents. If an Acc comes back now then he has lost the connection to the top forever and will never get it back. You should also not be blinded by the few more crystals that one or the other gets, when the big ones get even more crystals. The gap between big and small accounts will get even bigger. I would not be surprised if CG in the near future they increased prices in the supplies and then justified it with the fact that many now get more crystals.
  • LordHel wrote: »
    This is simply not correct. I took a 2 year break myself and was then out of all arenas for the time being. I then skipped the first GLs, saved up and then went to JMK and was part of the meta again.

    So you just 'saved up' with your daily 50 SA crystals and got JMK?
    Sorry but thats ****. If you got your JMK, then that means you were not f2p, so that nullifies the argument, because whales never had an issue and never will, even in the new system.
    LordHel wrote: »
    In the GAC I had no problems at all due to my break, because I was drawn to similarly strong opponents. If an Acc comes back now then he has lost the connection to the top forever and will never get it back.
    Depends on what do you call 'top'. Do you really expectes to beat people like Ahnald, who put thousands of dollars into this game every week? That's not going to happen neither in the old neither in the new system.
    Top should be your current GAC event. Win that. And yes, you can easily do that, no matter if you're new/old/returning player, thanks to the new win/loss matchmaking algorythm.
    LordHel wrote: »
    You should also not be blinded by the few more crystals that one or the other gets, when the big ones get even more crystals. The gap between big and small accounts will get even bigger.
    You think people are/will be in the highest league/division because of their daily free crystal income? Your naivity is cute.
    Those divisions will only have whales. Money has always been and still will always be the ultimate superpower. They don't give a dam about +100 free crystals, so the gap won't get bigger. They'll still have everything maxed on day 1, which takes many months of f2p to get.

    LordHel wrote: »
    I would not be surprised if CG in the near future they increased prices in the supplies and then justified it with the fact that many now get more crystals.
    Pointless argument, because nothing like that was said. Ramble and riot when they do make such changes, or even talk about such. But before, is nonsense.
  • I can already predict the future, GAC overhaul released -> plethora of game breaking bugs & glitches arrive -> GAC cancellation -> compensation rewards
  • I think you have not understood a lot in my post.
    So you just 'saved up' with your daily 50 SA crystals and got JMK?
    Sorry but thats ****. If you got your JMK, then that means you were not f2p, so that nullifies the argument, because whales never had an issue and never will, even in the new system.

    First of all, I have saved Gear for 9 months and secondly, I got 400 crystals from the Fleet Arena every day. So don't talk garbage that this doesn't work. So far you only needed a team to get the maximum crystals. Therefore, you could easily come back even after a long break. You weren't back on top right away, but if you had a halfway decent plan, there was a way back. Now that's no longer possible. Maximum crystals are now only possible for the really big ones, and if you take a break, you'll never make it back to your old position unless you put a lot of money into it.
    Depends on what do you call 'top'. Do you really expectes to beat people like Ahnald, who put thousands of dollars into this game every week? That's not going to happen neither in the old neither in the new system.
    Top should be your current GAC event. Win that. And yes, you can easily do that, no matter if you're new/old/returning player, thanks to the new win/loss matchmaking algorythm.
    I never wrote that. The point is that, in principle, everyone had the opportunity to complete the GAC as one of the best. As I said, despite a 2-year break, I was able to complete several GAC in Kyber Top 10, because everyone met opponents of his level. This will be cancelled now. There is only one top now and only the biggest of the biggest will get there. Players with less GP are artificially kept at the bottom because sooner or later they will meet acc they can't beat.
    You think people are/will be in the highest league/division because of their daily free crystal income? Your naivity is cute.
    Those divisions will only have whales. Money has always been and still will always be the ultimate superpower. They don't give a dam about +100 free crystals, so the gap won't get bigger. They'll still have everything maxed on day 1, which takes many months of f2p to get.

    What are you talking about?
    It's about the fact that some find the changes good because they now get a few more crystals, that's a naive fallacy. The big ones get even more crystals
  • LordHel wrote: »
    I think you have not understood a lot in my post.
    So you just 'saved up' with your daily 50 SA crystals and got JMK?
    Sorry but thats ****. If you got your JMK, then that means you were not f2p, so that nullifies the argument, because whales never had an issue and never will, even in the new system.

    First of all, I have saved Gear for 9 months and secondly, I got 400 crystals from the Fleet Arena every day. So don't talk garbage that this doesn't work. So far you only needed a team to get the maximum crystals. Therefore, you could easily come back even after a long break. You weren't back on top right away, but if you had a halfway decent plan, there was a way back. Now that's no longer possible. Maximum crystals are now only possible for the really big ones, and if you take a break, you'll never make it back to your old position unless you put a lot of money into it.

    JMK wasn't even released 9 months ago. You were already getting his gear, 5 months before his reveal?
    And how did you get the Relic8 materials, as a ftp? Any spots in your guild left, that does CRancor and recruits people that don't have ANY of the characters released in the past 2 years? 0 reliced toons?
    See the problems? If you take a 2 year break, you cant possibly just get JMK.
    Unless you've spent money or got an invite to a guild that is way way way out of reason to take you in.

    Also, you took 2 years break, but then you had no issue getting nr 1 payout at fleet?

    This all makes no sense.

    But lets say youre a miracle boy with godlike luck skills. You get taken into a guild where you do 0 dmg on a raid, but get relic8 mats anyway. Your fleet shard mates are noobs and haven't updated their fleet for 2 years. Its still Mace Windus on top with lvl 40 ships.
    THEN, you get your JMK. Wow, you are now top 30 in squad arena. So you join the mafia, and take your dedicated spot each day, while noone's bothering you. Maybe your shard mates will even take their mods off so you can beat them and climb effortlessly.

    Now compare that to new system, where you come back, maybe lose the first 3-4 GAC, and boom, you're matched with people who have similar characters/fleet. All the difference on who wins is now based almost purely on skill.

    Which one's a better pvp experience?
  • LordHel wrote: »
    I think you have not understood a lot in my post.
    So you just 'saved up' with your daily 50 SA crystals and got JMK?
    Sorry but thats ****. If you got your JMK, then that means you were not f2p, so that nullifies the argument, because whales never had an issue and never will, even in the new system.

    First of all, I have saved Gear for 9 months and secondly, I got 400 crystals from the Fleet Arena every day. So don't talk garbage that this doesn't work. So far you only needed a team to get the maximum crystals. Therefore, you could easily come back even after a long break. You weren't back on top right away, but if you had a halfway decent plan, there was a way back. Now that's no longer possible. Maximum crystals are now only possible for the really big ones, and if you take a break, you'll never make it back to your old position unless you put a lot of money into it.

    JMK wasn't even released 9 months ago. You were already getting his gear, 5 months before his reveal?
    And how did you get the Relic8 materials, as a ftp? Any spots in your guild left, that does CRancor and recruits people that don't have ANY of the characters released in the past 2 years? 0 reliced toons?
    See the problems? If you take a 2 year break, you cant possibly just get JMK.
    Unless you've spent money or got an invite to a guild that is way way way out of reason to take you in.

    Also, you took 2 years break, but then you had no issue getting nr 1 payout at fleet?

    This all makes no sense.

    But lets say youre a miracle boy with godlike luck skills. You get taken into a guild where you do 0 dmg on a raid, but get relic8 mats anyway. Your fleet shard mates are noobs and haven't updated their fleet for 2 years. Its still Mace Windus on top with lvl 40 ships.
    THEN, you get your JMK. Wow, you are now top 30 in squad arena. So you join the mafia, and take your dedicated spot each day, while noone's bothering you. Maybe your shard mates will even take their mods off so you can beat them and climb effortlessly.

    Now compare that to new system, where you come back, maybe lose the first 3-4 GAC, and boom, you're matched with people who have similar characters/fleet. All the difference on who wins is now based almost purely on skill.

    Which one's a better pvp experience?
    LordHel wrote: »
    I think you have not understood a lot in my post.
    So you just 'saved up' with your daily 50 SA crystals and got JMK?
    Sorry but thats ****. If you got your JMK, then that means you were not f2p, so that nullifies the argument, because whales never had an issue and never will, even in the new system.

    First of all, I have saved Gear for 9 months and secondly, I got 400 crystals from the Fleet Arena every day. So don't talk garbage that this doesn't work. So far you only needed a team to get the maximum crystals. Therefore, you could easily come back even after a long break. You weren't back on top right away, but if you had a halfway decent plan, there was a way back. Now that's no longer possible. Maximum crystals are now only possible for the really big ones, and if you take a break, you'll never make it back to your old position unless you put a lot of money into it.

    JMK wasn't even released 9 months ago. You were already getting his gear, 5 months before his reveal?
    And how did you get the Relic8 materials, as a ftp? Any spots in your guild left, that does CRancor and recruits people that don't have ANY of the characters released in the past 2 years? 0 reliced toons?
    See the problems? If you take a 2 year break, you cant possibly just get JMK.
    Unless you've spent money or got an invite to a guild that is way way way out of reason to take you in.

    Also, you took 2 years break, but then you had no issue getting nr 1 payout at fleet?

    This all makes no sense.

    But lets say youre a miracle boy with godlike luck skills. You get taken into a guild where you do 0 dmg on a raid, but get relic8 mats anyway. Your fleet shard mates are noobs and haven't updated their fleet for 2 years. Its still Mace Windus on top with lvl 40 ships.
    THEN, you get your JMK. Wow, you are now top 30 in squad arena. So you join the mafia, and take your dedicated spot each day, while noone's bothering you. Maybe your shard mates will even take their mods off so you can beat them and climb effortlessly.

    Now compare that to new system, where you come back, maybe lose the first 3-4 GAC, and boom, you're matched with people who have similar characters/fleet. All the difference on who wins is now based almost purely on skill.

    Which one's a better pvp experience?

    Are you really that slow on the uptake?

    I have 9 months of gear saved up, what does that have to do with when JMK came out? I came back in the fall of 2019 and started saving in the summer of 2020 after I had GAS....
    With a 6* Nego I beat every 7* star for over a year no matter what lineup, it was no problem. I am in a guild that has been doing the rancor for ages. At the beginning I got 1 part, later several because not all participated. I have every conquest on hard with maximum reward managed even with 4 million account without GL, so I also had CAT directly. That also have R8 Mats. No idea why I write you this here at all, I think you have no idea about the game at all.....

    And no, the matchmaking is now just not based on skill. Maybe the first 1-2 rounds but then players with low GM are kept down because they meet much bigger rosters. This has nothing to do with skill. A monkey with an 8 million account would beat the best swgoh player in the world with a 6 million account.
  • LordHel wrote: »
    And no, the matchmaking is now just not based on skill. Maybe the first 1-2 rounds but then players with low GM are kept down because they meet much bigger rosters. This has nothing to do with skill. A monkey with an 8 million account would beat the best swgoh player in the world with a 6 million account.

    Gawd, so many folks are so triggered by CG calling it a "skill" rating. Yes, obviously it's more than just skill. And that should be okay. The guy with 10M, who has spent mountains of cash on this game, has every right to be ranked higher than me (see account below), even if he's an ****. CG said in the Q&A:
    Skill Rating is a practical weighting of hundreds of factors, including your ability to use them effectively, as arbitrated by "Did it win?"

    Do I wish they had chosen a different term? Yes. But can people please stop whining about their skill being so great and they're just being dragged down by their GP?
  • “A monkey with an 8 million account would beat the best swgoh player in the world with a 6 million account.”

    This is not true. I gave a monkey my phone once, and he ended up auto-deploying and making no attacks, which now won’t get you any points at all. This change is super anti-monkey.

    Seriously though. I came back after 4.5 years about a year ago, and my HK lead droid team was not able to compete with the new meta. I’m still struggling to crack the top 200 every day in SA. It’s by far the most annoying part of the game for me. Get Kyber consistently though and enjoy GAC.

    I get that this change sucks for some people, but it’s nice for others including most (not all) returning players. And it also makes sense based on their stated intention of “broad rosters” (i.e. making people whale on all the newest toys to compete for the top spots).
  • The guy with 10M, who has spent mountains of cash on this game, has every right to be ranked higher than me (see account below), even if he's an ****.

    This is debatable. But new GAC rules closed this debate anyway, so let's move on.


    My main concern isn't "Will it be fair ?" but "Will it be fun ?". I guess we'll know after a couple of GAC, but it should be fine.


    The Good: with "New GAC", you can play SWGoH whenever you want and still chase crystals. It's a major QoL compared to PO constraint. It was stated already by some fellow forumers but shouldn't be overlooked.

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