the longer this particular rewards system in guilds is running...the farther us F2P fall behind...I'm barley hanging in arena top 50ish...those crystals earned there can't carry me to far...the loot is another story...
On another note, all this does for me is makes me close my wallet tighter. It's clearly a manipulation trying to compell you to spend and I don't like that strategy. The P2W model can work but all it should do is speed up the process, not be a border between free and pay.
A paying player in a perfect world would be able to buy anything, from gear to shards to ability mats, crystals, Credits, characters, etc. The free players should be able to acquire the same playing free, just slower. The advantage would be held when a whale who starts today could potentially buy his way to 80 and select his team and upgrades and be a top guild player tomorrow whereas free could take months to do the same...
On another note, all this does for me is makes me close my wallet tighter. It's clearly a manipulation trying to compell you to spend and I don't like that strategy. The P2W model can work but all it should do is speed up the process, not be a border between free and pay.
A paying player in a perfect world would be able to buy anything, from gear to shards to ability mats, crystals, Credits, characters, etc. The free players should be able to acquire the same playing free, just slower. The advantage would be held when a whale who starts today could potentially buy his way to 80 and select his team and upgrades and be a top guild player tomorrow whereas free could take months to do the same...
This whole debacle has now made me spend less.
My shipments refreshed. There's a mark 5 stun gun in there. I need several. I hate farming them. I can easily afford it.
I'm not buying it. Because you know why? Screw it. I'm not playing into this nonsense any more. What does it matter without the furnaces? Am I just going to spend $20 a day on gear?
I was happy to reward CG with extra crystals for the raid, it is really good. But this? No way.
The raid was supposed to deal with these **** retroactive gear pieces. It doesn't. Fix it, please.
Exactly how I feel. For a few dollars per day I can give myself a giant farming boost, and contribute a lot to my guild. But $20/day on gear?! When the forums are full of nerf calls on all the players I would gear up first?!
@reizse - I refreshed 6 times yesterday and 6 times today. Yes I understand it is RNG. It is also ****ing frustrating as hell and unnecessarily dumb.
You got lucky. I didn't. I can accept this with regular drops. Doing it with purchase options is insane.
They are annoying their customers and even cheating themselves of money.
But the fact is you shouldn't be competing for top tiers in arena and guild rewards with that little spent. If you could, the whales would leave the game as there would be no incentive for them to spend the much larger amounts of money than you have. And I have for that matter.
What came to my mind reading this was the end fight in Episode 3 on the lava when Kenobi screams at Anakin: "Well then you are lost!"
A primary strength of this game was that the spread between big spenders and moderate spenders and low spenders and even F2P was not as huge as in other games. I left my last game because I either had to pay thousands to compete or had no chance. I stayed in this one because until this gear fiasco, it was different.
I am on pace to spend over $1,000 a year. On a mobile game. In any reasonable world I would be considered borderline crazy for this. (My wife thinks I am.) But here I am considered too light a spender to be competitive?
So what, should I just quit now? Do they really expect me to spend five years farming gear at just one level?
In addition, note that the main complaint here isn't that I have to spend more money, it's that I am not even able to!
Thinking I didn't do a good enough job in making my end point. Freemium games push new content to make money. All of them do. New content releases, whales spend like crazy. Eventually that content settles into the mainstream. Again, I can't help but feel that this gear will become more readily available later. Just not now. Yes, even players such as we who have spent a few hundred are still at a disadvantage, and that blows. But it'll change. It has to.
And please... Calling yourself Ewan Mcgregor is all well and good. But calling me Hayden Christensen makes me a sad panda.
You dont have to play, and nobody NEEDS gear 9+, especially for free. They are introducing the pay wall gradually over your advancement. Its what these games do. You keep acting surprised when they follow the plan...
Indeed it is hard to plan when the keep moving the goalposts.
For example leading into the raid update my plan was to farm tons of blowdryers and tenacity disks to craft furnaces when new 50piece items show up.. Turns out that was waste as this thing is basically uncraftable and just have to save crystal an buy it.
That said have to expect p2p to have an advantage when new meta starts..the meta hasnet even started on some servers yet where few people if any have just hit 80.
@Qeltar Well I got my first furnace after 65refreshes. Still waiting for the second one. I'm 1 out of 92 refreshes at the moment. No idea how much I spent on refreshes now. It's quite horrible rng.
Agree with OP. Guild reward system (not guild system) is the worst implemented update since soft launch.
Precrafters finish higher in raids --> get more unobtainable gear than everyone else --> pull further away from the pack as they advance to higher gear levels --> precrafters finish high in raids
It's a ridiculous cycle, and precrafting is really the root of the problem. And the fact that the so-called "guilds" in this game are not actual guilds, but effectively the opposite because of the reward structure.
Agree with OP. Guild reward system (not guild system) is the worst implemented update since soft launch.
Precrafters finish higher in raids --> get more unobtainable gear than everyone else --> pull further away from the pack as they advance to higher gear levels --> precrafters finish high in raids
It's a ridiculous cycle, and precrafting is really the root of the problem. And the fact that the so-called "guilds" in this game are not actual guilds, but effectively the opposite because of the reward structure.
I pre-crafted a few and i am outside top 20 in the raid. It depends how much one pre-crafted but that's not the issue. Having 25 characters geared up to 8 and leveled up will beat a 10 man pre-crafted team. (I didn't pre-craft 10 chars lol). So i disagree!
Its a con, the reason its in shipments to make you gamble and keep spending crystals after crystals.
Then when a Furnace pops up you still have to purchase it.
Think how much money they are making from refreshes alone. They tricked everyone with the pre craft issue and changing it 24 hrs before update. Now your stuck either having to spend on more characters gear and energy for Guilds and Raids.
They have backed everyone into a corner and its only gonna get worse and worse. You will no longer be able to farm gear 10 it will be shipments and Raids.
Its called the long con, let you have freedom build a collection then bam!! add restrictions.
The biggest decision do you leave now and call it a day or keep pilling money into the game.
This is the worse thing that any game could do, its totally about just making money and screw over customers. Keep the spenders spending and try to make the F2P to spend
Don't forget to mention people who pre-crafted the gears have them while you (who knowingly didn't precraft because you believe that devs aren't stupid)
@Qeltar Well I got my first furnace after 65refreshes. Still waiting for the second one. I'm 1 out of 92 refreshes at the moment. No idea how much I spent on refreshes now. It's quite horrible rng.
Finally had one show up this morning. Felt dirty when I bought it.
Finished #3 in our guild's T6 raid, which took 3.5 days. I didn't get any pieces towards a furnace and less than half the pieces for one other item.
This is ridiculous.
Finally had one show up this morning. Felt dirty when I bought it.
And this is why the system won't change working as intended...
That shouldn't be how the system is. Not everyone will buy it. The game should be enjoyable and by that, earning the rewards through raids and what not. The raids still get terrible rewards.
The furnace in shipments is an extra bonus and that's ok. There has to be some p2w. But to make it exclusively p2w is a little far. Great way to lose players and money. We shouldn't need 1 month of raiding to get one piece of gear 65+ toons need. That's ignorant.
OP is right, this gear disparity is getting worse. I've spent about $80 on the game in about 4 months and I don't have a problem spending more with reasonable purchases but there is no way in hell in going to spend $10 on a piece of gear in a video game. I have about 10 toons that need one as is and I'm not ever going to be able to finish in the top of my guild so that I can feel them UNTIL I can hear them up last 8. But I can't do this until I start placing higher in raids.
You see where I'm going with this. This needs to be fixed.
I really hope something is done about this eventually, maybe after they milk enough money out of people willing to pay a big premium to keep advancing quickly. Putting in a lot of time and money over months, just to hit a ridiculously expensive paywall at the end of it all, is a recipe for a steady stream of rage-quitters. The fact that some other players made it past the paywall by pre-crafting is just an extra insult.
Finally had one show up this morning. Felt dirty when I bought it.
And this is why the system won't change working as intended...
Except it's not, for anyone.
It is ticking off regular players who won't buy this stuff when they spend 4 days on a raid and 1/8th of 1 piece of gear. I just lost two guild members who quit the game because they only stayed to see how raids and guilds are and are disappointed.
And it is ticking off people who want to spend more money but can't because the items don't appear.
I will buy a couple more of these if they show. But long term, making me wait 1 month per item will eventually lead me and everyone else but the biggest of whales and the most casual of players to throw in the towel.
The system needs fixed.
Finally had one show up this morning. Felt dirty when I bought it.
And this is why the system won't change working as intended...
That shouldn't be how the system is.
Of course it shouldn't, but as long as people keep throwing money on refreshing and purchasing, why would they ever change it?
It's like going on the iTunes store and getting a list of movies. If you don't like the movies you pay $1 to refresh them, and the price keeps going up. THEN when you get a good movie on the list you purchase it for $15 bucks. NOBODY would ever do this outside of gaming....
And you could probably find one movie you'd be OK with watching....not ONE movie you NEED to see that completely halts all progression if you don't watch it. Then they complain about the system, but keep putting money into it.
I am starting to wonder myself why I am even doing this.
I've always been a patient player and I am now complaining about not being able to spend 10 bucks on ONE item.
This is having a ricochet effect on me. If I'm going to have to beg for this stuff, then I might as well just forget it, accept that my guys will be stuck at Gear 8 forever, and go back to spending lightly.
Too much waste.
I love the raid, but this gear situation is HORRIBLE.
It's a pretty ingenious system on how they got us wanting to spend the money on this item. And how they haven't commented on the lack of ability to get it outside of a raid or shipment.
Finally had one show up this morning. Felt dirty when I bought it.
And this is why the system won't change working as intended...
That shouldn't be how the system is.
Of course it shouldn't, but as long as people keep throwing money on refreshing and purchasing, why would they ever change it?
There's a balance to be struck: extracting money from people without **** them off.
The initial rewards for the raid were insultingly bad. They are now "merely bad".
They need to improve the rewards so if you are impatient you can still buy items but you have a viable alternative. The raid is now not viable.
I need over 30 of these furnaces. I am NOT buying them all in the store.
Push people too far, and they push back.. or just leave. As I said, I see people quitting left and right.
I don't understand why the guild shipments don't include raid gear. If you could save up to buy one furnace (or other raid item) a week that would fix a lot, even if it was just the raid 50 stack and not the farmable stuff. A weeks worth of currency for the regular farmable gear currently offered is rather insulting.
I don't understand why the guild shipments don't include raid gear. If you could save up to buy one furnace (or other raid item) a week that would fix a lot, even if it was just the raid 50 stack and not the farmable stuff. A weeks worth of currency for the regular farmable gear currently offered is rather insulting.
Agreed. The prices are very high (at least a week of currency for a typical player) and should be the desired items, not stuff you can farm easily.
I only just hit enough currency to buy an item. Both of the prototypes in my shop are ones I have over 200 salvage for already.
Why would I buy them?
Why don't they think through and playtest this stuff? Every single time, they do things that ANY regular player could tell them make no sense.
They say they play themselves. Why can't they figure this out before they foist it on us? Clearly the raid was tested as it is amazing with only a few bugs. Why are the rewards ALWAYS a mess?
Replies
A paying player in a perfect world would be able to buy anything, from gear to shards to ability mats, crystals, Credits, characters, etc. The free players should be able to acquire the same playing free, just slower. The advantage would be held when a whale who starts today could potentially buy his way to 80 and select his team and upgrades and be a top guild player tomorrow whereas free could take months to do the same...
+1
Exactly how I feel. For a few dollars per day I can give myself a giant farming boost, and contribute a lot to my guild. But $20/day on gear?! When the forums are full of nerf calls on all the players I would gear up first?!
Thinking I didn't do a good enough job in making my end point. Freemium games push new content to make money. All of them do. New content releases, whales spend like crazy. Eventually that content settles into the mainstream. Again, I can't help but feel that this gear will become more readily available later. Just not now. Yes, even players such as we who have spent a few hundred are still at a disadvantage, and that blows. But it'll change. It has to.
And please... Calling yourself Ewan Mcgregor is all well and good. But calling me Hayden Christensen makes me a sad panda.
Add furnance to arena for 2400
Add droid caller to GW for 2400
Grimd out them to buff your characters or pay to quickly advance and buy shards instead.
Its free. If you pay, nobody forces you.
You dont have to play, and nobody NEEDS gear 9+, especially for free. They are introducing the pay wall gradually over your advancement. Its what these games do. You keep acting surprised when they follow the plan...
Not everyone knows the plan, they get a nasty surprise when they learn the Banking Clan controls the gates of progression.
For example leading into the raid update my plan was to farm tons of blowdryers and tenacity disks to craft furnaces when new 50piece items show up.. Turns out that was waste as this thing is basically uncraftable and just have to save crystal an buy it.
That said have to expect p2p to have an advantage when new meta starts..the meta hasnet even started on some servers yet where few people if any have just hit 80.
Yes @reizse
Precrafters finish higher in raids --> get more unobtainable gear than everyone else --> pull further away from the pack as they advance to higher gear levels --> precrafters finish high in raids
It's a ridiculous cycle, and precrafting is really the root of the problem. And the fact that the so-called "guilds" in this game are not actual guilds, but effectively the opposite because of the reward structure.
I pre-crafted a few and i am outside top 20 in the raid.
Then when a Furnace pops up you still have to purchase it.
Think how much money they are making from refreshes alone. They tricked everyone with the pre craft issue and changing it 24 hrs before update. Now your stuck either having to spend on more characters gear and energy for Guilds and Raids.
They have backed everyone into a corner and its only gonna get worse and worse. You will no longer be able to farm gear 10 it will be shipments and Raids.
Its called the long con, let you have freedom build a collection then bam!! add restrictions.
The biggest decision do you leave now and call it a day or keep pilling money into the game.
This is the worse thing that any game could do, its totally about just making money and screw over customers. Keep the spenders spending and try to make the F2P to spend
Finally had one show up this morning. Felt dirty when I bought it.
Finished #3 in our guild's T6 raid, which took 3.5 days. I didn't get any pieces towards a furnace and less than half the pieces for one other item.
This is ridiculous.
And this is why the system won't change
That shouldn't be how the system is. Not everyone will buy it. The game should be enjoyable and by that, earning the rewards through raids and what not. The raids still get terrible rewards.
The furnace in shipments is an extra bonus and that's ok. There has to be some p2w. But to make it exclusively p2w is a little far. Great way to lose players and money. We shouldn't need 1 month of raiding to get one piece of gear 65+ toons need. That's ignorant.
You see where I'm going with this. This needs to be fixed.
Except it's not, for anyone.
It is ticking off regular players who won't buy this stuff when they spend 4 days on a raid and 1/8th of 1 piece of gear. I just lost two guild members who quit the game because they only stayed to see how raids and guilds are and are disappointed.
And it is ticking off people who want to spend more money but can't because the items don't appear.
I will buy a couple more of these if they show. But long term, making me wait 1 month per item will eventually lead me and everyone else but the biggest of whales and the most casual of players to throw in the towel.
The system needs fixed.
Of course it shouldn't, but as long as people keep throwing money on refreshing and purchasing, why would they ever change it?
It's like going on the iTunes store and getting a list of movies. If you don't like the movies you pay $1 to refresh them, and the price keeps going up. THEN when you get a good movie on the list you purchase it for $15 bucks. NOBODY would ever do this outside of gaming....
And you could probably find one movie you'd be OK with watching....not ONE movie you NEED to see that completely halts all progression if you don't watch it. Then they complain about the system, but keep putting money into it.
It's a pretty ingenious system on how they got us wanting to spend the money on this item. And how they haven't commented on the lack of ability to get it outside of a raid or shipment.
There's a balance to be struck: extracting money from people without **** them off.
The initial rewards for the raid were insultingly bad. They are now "merely bad".
They need to improve the rewards so if you are impatient you can still buy items but you have a viable alternative. The raid is now not viable.
I need over 30 of these furnaces. I am NOT buying them all in the store.
Push people too far, and they push back.. or just leave. As I said, I see people quitting left and right.
Agreed. The prices are very high (at least a week of currency for a typical player) and should be the desired items, not stuff you can farm easily.
I only just hit enough currency to buy an item. Both of the prototypes in my shop are ones I have over 200 salvage for already.
Why would I buy them?
Why don't they think through and playtest this stuff? Every single time, they do things that ANY regular player could tell them make no sense.
They say they play themselves. Why can't they figure this out before they foist it on us? Clearly the raid was tested as it is amazing with only a few bugs. Why are the rewards ALWAYS a mess?