You get punished for being in a strong Guild?

MikaSaber · May 30, 2016 5:11PM

Hey guys,

I'll keep this brief.

Because of the currently raid loot reward system we can observe the following:

If you are a powerful player in a powerful guild, you will have a hard time placing top 3, or maybe even top 10+. And your rewards will reflect your "dmg done".

If you are in a weak guild you can perhaps place top 3 consistently. Which means better rewards and eventually making it more beneficial for you.

It doesn't really make sense to punish strong players who join a powerful guild.

Joining a top tier guild should be rewarding, it's why you would develop your roster and invest more time and $$$ into the game.

A simple fix: Since as a guild everyone contributes coins to start the raid, the rewards for those who participate should be pretty much the same.

Or a much worse case scenario is If we "must" keep the current "dmg" system, maybe we add a "timer" and boost the rewards based on how fast the raid is complete.

If anyone has a good suggestion please post and share

DomLon · May 30, 2016 5:20PM

I think the best solution for this is:
1. Remove the positions
2. Make different reward tiers for each player, depending on damage done.
For example:
Damage done - Tier
0 to 100k - t1
100k to 250k - t2
And so on.
The higher the Tier, the better the rewards

Mofojokers1992 · May 30, 2016 5:22PM

DomLon wrote: »

I think the best solution for this is:
1. Remove the positions
2. Make different reward tiers for each player, depending on damage done.
For example:
Damage done - Tier
0 to 100k - t1
100k to 250k - t2
And so on.
The higher the Tier, the better the rewards

Won't work for tier 7

The_Jam · May 30, 2016 5:22PM

It's a tough one because I'm in a guild with good people who play regularly but we just don't have the rosters across the guild to complete tier 7 therefore despite playing regularly non of us will ever own Han which for me is a shame as he's always been my favourite character. I personally would like to see rewards for all based on contribution so if you play your 5 turns and give damage equal to what your rosters capable of then if the raid is completed we all get rewards, maybe like a normal raid game were you roll on loot if your character needs it and guild master has final say with everyone earning equal cash. Unfortunately this system wouldn't encourage you to spend money to be number 1 which seems to be the main aim of guilds.

DomLon · May 30, 2016 5:25PM

Mofojokers1992 wrote: »

DomLon wrote: »

I think the best solution for this is:
1. Remove the positions
2. Make different reward tiers for each player, depending on damage done.
For example:
Damage done - Tier
0 to 100k - t1
100k to 250k - t2
And so on.
The higher the Tier, the better the rewards

Won't work for tier 7

Why? I don't see why this shouldn't work

Lordul · May 30, 2016 5:34PM

The_Jam wrote: »

It's a tough one because I'm in a guild with good people who play regularly but we just don't have the rosters across the guild to complete tier 7 therefore despite playing regularly non of us will ever own Han which for me is a shame as he's always been my favourite character. I personally would like to see rewards for all based on contribution so if you play your 5 turns and give damage equal to what your rosters capable of then if the raid is completed we all get rewards, maybe like a normal raid game were you roll on loot if your character needs it and guild master has final say with everyone earning equal cash. Unfortunately this system wouldn't encourage you to spend money to be number 1 which seems to be the main aim of guilds.

did u guys even try T7?with good guild strategy u can make it....plus for our guild always take us 2 days to finish T6,,,i never belive we can make it t7...but it was much easy t7...we finish every time in same day because boss have less HP then t6....dont say i cant do if u didnt try it

KamikazeRhombus · May 30, 2016 5:36PM

DomLon wrote: »

Mofojokers1992 wrote: »

DomLon wrote: »

I think the best solution for this is:
1. Remove the positions
2. Make different reward tiers for each player, depending on damage done.
For example:
Damage done - Tier
0 to 100k - t1
100k to 250k - t2
And so on.
The higher the Tier, the better the rewards

Won't work for tier 7

Why? I don't see why this shouldn't work

Tier 7 goes too quickly. A lot of top guilds have to hold people back so everyone gets an attack in.

LordAlvert · May 30, 2016 5:39PM

Yes anyone who thinks TI has the devs in their back pocket is crazy. This is like an anti-TI raid structure.

I posted several weeks ago that the best guild and best way to advance in this game is 5 whales and 45 f2p clearing heroic. I guess some people didn't listen... Mixed guild makes everyone HAPPY!

I think I also posted about this raid structure will invariably fragment big whale guilds. If it hasn't yet. It should. GREED is good. Watch me get ahead...

Mol_Eliza_oops · May 30, 2016 5:40PM

What about people who have very strong rosters but don't want to apply to top guilds, have high minimum daily contributions, want to play with their friends, etc.? It's very possible some "whales" don't want to be punished for joining a weaker guild.

It seems like they tried to accommodate everyone by having raid rankings (potentially a benefit to be in a weaker guild which can still manage top tier raids) and daily activity tiers (potentially a benefit to be in a stronger guild). It makes some sense, but it may just require some rebalancing. The discrepancy between top and bottom rank in raids should be smaller, or somehow scale with the discrepancy in damage between top and bottom.

Maybe the raid loot should factor in percent damage done, in addition to rank? If #1 and #50 do 2mil damage and 10,000, that's a different situation than them doing 400k and 300k.

The_Jam · May 30, 2016 5:42PM

Lordul wrote: »

The_Jam wrote: »

It's a tough one because I'm in a guild with good people who play regularly but we just don't have the rosters across the guild to complete tier 7 therefore despite playing regularly non of us will ever own Han which for me is a shame as he's always been my favourite character. I personally would like to see rewards for all based on contribution so if you play your 5 turns and give damage equal to what your rosters capable of then if the raid is completed we all get rewards, maybe like a normal raid game were you roll on loot if your character needs it and guild master has final say with everyone earning equal cash. Unfortunately this system wouldn't encourage you to spend money to be number 1 which seems to be the main aim of guilds.

did u guys even try T7?with good guild strategy u can make it....plus for our guild always take us 2 days to finish T6,,,i never belive we can make it t7...but it was much easy t7...we finish every time in same day because boss have less HP then t6....dont say i cant do if u didnt try it

Currently most of my guild have 4 and 5 star characters so they don't qualify.

The_Jam · May 30, 2016 5:46PM

My main disappointment revolves around the fact Han shards only drop in Tier 7 it would be nice to be able to buy Han shards from the guild shop even if they were really expensive.

Mofojokers1992 · May 30, 2016 5:50PM

KamikazeRhombus wrote: »

DomLon wrote: »

Mofojokers1992 wrote: »

DomLon wrote: »

I think the best solution for this is:
1. Remove the positions
2. Make different reward tiers for each player, depending on damage done.
For example:
Damage done - Tier
0 to 100k - t1
100k to 250k - t2
And so on.
The higher the Tier, the better the rewards

Won't work for tier 7

Why? I don't see why this shouldn't work

Tier 7 goes too quickly. A lot of top guilds have to hold people back so everyone gets an attack in.

This)

Better choice would be to equal it as much as possible.

I suggested this before

Ranks affect the amount of credits and guild tokens received. Shards and chests are shared equally. You work as a team and you fight as a team the loot should be shared as such.

Unfortunately in it's current state guilds are not very guild like and you are punished for having more whales in your guild.

dbraba01 · May 30, 2016 6:07PM

@Lordul My guild waited a month to try t7. We were starting to clear T6 in one refresh. The difference between the two is night and day. For t7 we could finish it in about 30 min. We started a policy where you get 1 attack in the first 12 hours. By then we are in the middle of p4. After 12 hrs it is zerg time and the last zerg time lasted 3 min. The rewards are a lot better. I was 41 on one raid and still got a fully crafted droid caller. Just start with a solid plan like only players with Rex, Ackbar, etc go against the pigs. People with Yoda go when rancor health is above 50%, etc. Our first one we went in one at time, screen pic the damage, and waited until everyone went. Once you try it you'll never go back.

V1p3rdyn4sty · May 30, 2016 6:17PM

T7 raids are more of a social event. We need a t8 raid soon. So the top guilds actually get rewarded for being strong from top to bottom.

rainpro · May 30, 2016 6:43PM

They should allow a raid to be ended by the person who starts it. My idea is that they implement a system where the rancor can continue to be attacked after the rancor has been defeated. What this would do is give you back a percentage of guild coins (the ones you open raids with) based on additional damage dealt. It wouldn't have to be a large percentage. This would allow people with big rosters to do tons of damage with all their teams, allow for actual damage rankings to matter, not rush everyone into zerging a raid down to beat others, and give an incentive to have a large roster. Granted this is would create a rich gets richer scenario but honestly who's catching up to space whales without paying anyways?

GeneralHawk · May 30, 2016 7:03PM

Another option would be to give rewards to top guilds every month. Then high performing guilds are rewarded.

Sikho · May 30, 2016 7:05PM

IT'S OKAY YOU CAN GUILDHOP

KingPin · May 30, 2016 7:09PM

I'd rather awards were distributed by people contributing towards guild coins over the last week ... Would stop guild hopping for a start and those in guilds who are less active over the course of the week then coming in and spanking raids

Mofojokers1992 · May 30, 2016 7:14PM

KingPin wrote: »

I'd rather awards were distributed by people contributing towards guild coins over the last week ... Would stop guild hopping for a start and those in guilds who are less active over the course of the week then coming in and spanking raids

You know most if not all people can hit the daily 600 limit.

Telaan · May 30, 2016 7:28PM

The reward system is garbage. I'm truly hoping @CG_JohnSalera and team addresses the concerns surrounding it this week with a coherent game plan to fix it.

The system punishes everyone. Whether you are a whale in a whale guild or a f2p I'm a mixed spender guild, raiding is a team effort and rewards should be received as such. Arena is the place for competitive tiered rewards.

medetec · May 30, 2016 7:34PM

I've been pitching the option for guild leaders to set raid rewards to equal distribution since we first saw how raid rewards work.

It allows guilds to have a dps ranking system if they want, but it also allows strong / friendly / casual / whatever guilds the option to avoid the huge downsides of that same system.

Starjumper · May 30, 2016 7:45PM

MikaSaber wrote: »

Hey guys,

I'll keep this brief.

Because of the currently raid loot reward system we can observe the following:

If you are a powerful player in a powerful guild, you will have a hard time placing top 3, or maybe even top 10+. And your rewards will reflect your "dmg done".

If you are in a weak guild you can perhaps place top 3 consistently. Which means better rewards and eventually making it more beneficial for you.

It doesn't really make sense to punish strong players who join a powerful guild.

Joining a top tier guild should be rewarding, it's why you would develop your roster and invest more time and $$$ into the game.

A simple fix: Since as a guild everyone contributes coins to start the raid, the rewards for those who participate should be pretty much the same.

Or a much worse case scenario is If we "must" keep the current "dmg" system, maybe we add a "timer" and boost the rewards based on how fast the raid is complete.

If anyone has a good suggestion please post and share

@MikaSaber
Whilst I agree with you there are also benefits. Strong guilds will beat heroics faster and more frequently as you have all the strongest players. So having 5 solo shards a raid for 2-3-4 weeks before other people are raiding t7s still puts you at an advantage.

However I still understand your concern but this is not only a problem for 'strong guilds' I run a guild and probably finish about 10th most raids and we are lining up our first heroic this weekend. The reality is with my guild the way it is the highest I'll ever likely finish is 10th.

So to solve your problem would be to join a weaker guild where you can be the top performer which isn't a bad idea as guilds aren't pvp (yet)
If pvp is the focus of guilds in the future then you'd be better off being in TI.
To solve my problem if I want top rewards I have to form a guild where I am the strongest player. Both of these are design flaws from EA but hopefully that explains it not just a problem for strong guilds.

Anyway, onto my solution which is a bit war craft based.

* before the raid starts ALL of the potential loot is displayed
* players then pre roll on the loot they want (say 3 rolls on the basis you get 2 bits of gear) any gear not rolled on goes to the random allocation pool
* after the raid, rolls happen - highest roll gets that piece of gear. If you don't win a roll you are automatically assigned gear from the random pool
* this would mean if you're after something nobody else is you can get it easily whilst the most sought after gear is up for grabs by players that want/need it
* guild coins and currency remain rank based

Maskarii · May 30, 2016 7:48PM

FIRST AT ALL

BLOCK GUILD HOPPING
THERE ARE SOME PLAYERS I KNOW SWİTCHİNG A GUILD TO ANOTHER DAİLY. AFTER WE BLOCK THOSE STUFF WE CAN TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING OTHER

IF YOU ARE A STRONG PLAYER IN A STRONG GUILD IT'S SİMPLY THE SAME AS BE ING A LOW PLAYER IN A NORMAL GUILD

ONLY THE STRONGEST GET THE REWARDS

Maybe they will put a Bonus for the Top 200 Guilds at the End of every month..that would be much better than anything else.

KingPin · May 30, 2016 7:51PM

Mofojokers1992 wrote: »

KingPin wrote: »

I'd rather awards were distributed by people contributing towards guild coins over the last week ... Would stop guild hopping for a start and those in guilds who are less active over the course of the week then coming in and spanking raids

You know most if not all people can hit the daily 600 limit.

Exactly you can't start raids without it everyone should get a fair share of the rewards. It doesn't matter if one person can contribute more damage than another, without everyone contributing you don't have a raid to start with

BL1ZZAXX · May 30, 2016 11:40PM

I think raid payout should be tiered to the effect of 1-10 place gets this, 11-20 gets this, 21-30 gets this and so on. If you don't log in and don't participate in the raid or only complete a few battles then that will place you lower in the group and you'll get less reward. All guild members helped to open the raid and all deserve reward for it but everyone didn't contribute equally and shouldn't be rewarded equally. Individual payout is too extreme though, and usually #1 continues to be #1 and we shouldn't have to be so competitive within our own guilds anyway.

BnBTobacconist · May 30, 2016 11:44PM

i run a guild of 78+ level. guild activities I don't really actively participate the rewards are pretty even'd out. The raids are what I really go after but i understand it's a struggle to get everyone involved and happy. there is no magic formula. We do tier 6's all the time and it takes a day or two so most people get there hits in. When i run a tier 5 everyone **** because the raid is done in 4 hours.

fberbert · May 30, 2016 11:47PM

Well said @MikaSaber ! I was playing with you at TI and enjoying, but that garbage loot system forced me to move to a smaller guild where I play as much t7 raids than you and I have #1 all the time.

It is pointless play t7 raids in a strong guild. You won't have return of your investment in a strong guild. All you will get is a bit more daily coins due to t7 dailies everyday (if so).

I would like to be playing with TI, but EA didn't "allowed".

jomamaphat · May 30, 2016 11:52PM

After joining a top guild at first and finishing in the lower tier i switched to join a lower guild to finish top 3. If guild hopping is part of the system to take advantage of then so is the rewards system on the other spectrum. Deal with it.

LordAlvert · May 30, 2016 11:59PM

fberbert wrote: »

Well said @MikaSaber ! I was playing with you at TI and enjoying, but that garbage loot system forced me to move to a smaller guild where I play as much t7 raids than you and I have #1 all the time.

It is pointless play t7 raids in a strong guild. You won't have return of your investment in a strong guild. All you will get is a bit more daily coins due to t7 dailies everyday (if so).

I would like to be playing with TI, but EA didn't "allowed".

The system effectively forces this. Forces guilds that even have 10 whales to split. It is an issue every guild faces that can easily beat heroic (read: many many guilds). Not ideal. Working as intended but intent is in error.

Ashishin · May 31, 2016 12:02AM

Participation award generation post.

-Ashishin

iPenguinn · May 31, 2016 12:02AM

Those that are still sour over the guild hopping get over it, u making yourself look pathetic..

New player? Check out the new player index

You get punished for being in a strong Guild?

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