If they would just leave the gear reward the same for everyone. Maybe make the top half get an extra box or something for being a higher performer. But everyone gets the same chance at the same high level gear just for defeating the Rancor. Then we could "compete" for credits and guild currency. The fact that they make us compete for gear is the only real problem I see.
Because of the currently raid loot reward system we can observe the following:
If you are a powerful player in a powerful guild, you will have a hard time placing top 3, or maybe even top 10+. And your rewards will reflect your "dmg done".
If you are in a weak guild you can perhaps place top 3 consistently. Which means better rewards and eventually making it more beneficial for you.
It doesn't really make sense to punish strong players who join a powerful guild.
Joining a top tier guild should be rewarding, it's why you would develop your roster and invest more time and $$$ into the game.
A simple fix: Since as a guild everyone contributes coins to start the raid, the rewards for those who participate should be pretty much the same.
Or a much worse case scenario is If we "must" keep the current "dmg" system, maybe we add a "timer" and boost the rewards based on how fast the raid is complete.
If anyone has a good suggestion please post and share
Ahhh the big fish in a little pond or small fish in a big pond dilemma....
I think the best solution for this is:
1. Remove the positions
2. Make different reward tiers for each player, depending on damage done.
For example:
Damage done - Tier
0 to 100k - t1
100k to 250k - t2
And so on.
The higher the Tier, the better the rewards
Its never going to be perfect its down to luck sometimes i can hit 350k with 1 team and then only 150k with the same team, this meta sucks and i completley agree everybody in my guild is hitting 600 contribution and just because my guild has raid preferable toons they get better rewards progress quicker then me and i get rubbish pulls the amount of same gear needed for toons that are only raid obtainable is insane since the raids have started ive only obtained 5 holo lens been months now and really killing the game for me i would much prefer a split pot between a guild as a reward or just better gear drops i cant progress and alot of toons are stuck at g9 going nowhere for a while!!!
Problem with being in an op guild im afraid. You guys in TI arent the only whales experiencing this. Unfortunately the raid is just another easy grind, to compete in it is just pure silly, they might as well just give the same rewards to everyone because imo the idea of a guild is team work. some guilds have members carrying others, some guilds have members slowing down for others. What you guys need is a challenge mode. i.e an unbeatable wave of rancor where the guild gets prizes based on how many waves they beat, TI would surely own something like that and beating personal best would spurr you on.
Another option would be to give rewards to top guilds every month. Then high performing guilds are rewarded.
Not a bad idea, but the current system needs to be reworked. Many guilds at this point are running t7 only, so next month there will be many guilds with 3000 points at month end, not just TI.
OP has a point, and not one with an easy solution. The 50th person in TI could probably be #1 with another guild. The difference is enormous because in TI he's only getting 1 Han Solo shard per raid (assuming finish towards the bottom) while in another guild he would be getting 5-10 per raid.
Another option would be to give rewards to top guilds every month. Then high performing guilds are rewarded.
Not a bad idea, but the current system needs to be reworked. Many guilds at this point are running t7 only, so next month there will be many guilds with 3000 points at month end, not just TI.
OP has a point, and not one with an easy solution. The 50th person in TI could probably be #1 with another guild. The difference is enormous because in TI he's only getting 1 Han Solo shard per raid (assuming finish towards the bottom) while in another guild he would be getting 5-10 per raid.
For this to happen, they would also need to eliminate guild hopping and have reward based on the 50 people within guild who stay in the guild for the full month.
Why does no one point out the actual benefit of being in a strong guild vs weak.
I am in weak guild. I am the dolphin. We do tier 3 raids 2-3 times a week. In a top guild you do raids 2-3 times a day unless at heroic level then every other day. Better loot from higher raids even if you are bottom tier. More loot due to more raids.
I think the best solution for this is:
1. Remove the positions
2. Make different reward tiers for each player, depending on damage done.
For example:
Damage done - Tier
0 to 100k - t1
100k to 250k - t2
And so on.
The higher the Tier, the better the rewards
Its never going to be perfect its down to luck sometimes i can hit 350k with 1 team and then only 150k with the same team, this meta sucks and i completley agree everybody in my guild is hitting 600 contribution and just because my guild has raid preferable toons they get better rewards progress quicker then me and i get rubbish pulls the amount of same gear needed for toons that are only raid obtainable is insane since the raids have started ive only obtained 5 holo lens been months now and really killing the game for me i would much prefer a split pot between a guild as a reward or just better gear drops i cant progress and alot of toons are stuck at g9 going nowhere for a while!!!
Punctuation, brother Brett. It does wonders for consumability of your message.
As for this thread I do think that having damage thresholds determine what rewards you get would be a lot better than the current system. The thresholds can also be tuned to different amounts depending on the Tier of the raid. This means Tier 6 would have higher damage requirements than Tier 7 since it has a lot more total health.
@Telaan
A generation of entitlement. You want rewarded for just showing up. I know exactly what it means.
@Pacpac
Yup me again. Frequently, just not on reward me because I showed up posts.
@tRRRey
How's this for contributions:
If you don't like the stiff competition in a whale guild, find another guild.
If you don't like finishing below #3, go to another guild.
If you don't like the reward system, find another game.
If you don't want to leave the game, spare the rest of us from all the reward me because I showed up whining.
-Ashishin
Much butt hurt I sense in you, this is why you fail...
How do you tell when your guild is ready for tierv7?
@Boba_The_Fetter
There are several forum posts which address this question.
Some of the answers are related to the following,
How many people in your guild have deep rosters...
How many of those rosters are G9/10/11...
Specific characters/types of characters by phase....
How long it takes you to finish T6...
Much butt hurt I sense in you, this is why you fail...
@Telaan
A generation of entitlement. You want rewarded for just showing up. I know exactly what it means.
@Pacpac
Yup me again. Frequently, just not on reward me because I showed up posts.
@tRRRey
How's this for contributions:
If you don't like the stiff competition in a whale guild, find another guild.
If you don't like finishing below #3, go to another guild.
If you don't like the reward system, find another game.
If you don't want to leave the game, spare the rest of us from all the reward me because I showed up whining.
-Ashishin
Incorrect. You devalue its meaning every time you use it. You have no clue what you're talking about and/or are trolling. Please continue to misapply it's meaning in a video game so others can continue to lol.
This is not little league baseball game where the losing team receives the same awards as the winning team so everyone walks away feeling good. This is a raid in an online multiplayer game where a groups of players cooperatively contribute for the the completion of a single goal. The current reward system doesn't exist in any MMO with similar mechanics.
If you're a strong player in a weak guild you cant' complete same Tier of raid in the same time so probably the equation doesn't change.
A strong player in a weak guild finish a T6 in maybe 4 days, in a strong guild 1-2 days. So finishing 10th in the 2 times is still better than 2nd 1 time.
Some good suggestions in here. But yeah you shouldn't have to drop your current guild to join a weaker one to gain more benefits, makes no sense.
@Mol_Eliza_oops I do see your point though about some whales wanting to play with friends in smaller guilds and shouldn't be punished. Quite frankly that's a personal choice that you would make to sacrifice perhaps your competitive edge to enjoy the game with your buddies. I mean although that freedom is nice I think it works now because t7 is a joke. Once a harder raid is out and you can't beat it with a weaker guild, most will try joining a stronger one.
But again, the only way I can truly see real benefits of being powerful In a top tier guild is if they award that by perhaps having let's say "endless waves of rancor" to see how far our roster takes us. As @GeorgeRules suggested.
@GeneralHawk I agree. I think adding a reward for finishing top rank in guild leaderboards should also be rewarded, similar to the arena ranking system.
@Telaan
A generation of entitlement. You want rewarded for just showing up. I know exactly what it means.
@Pacpac
Yup me again. Frequently, just not on reward me because I showed up posts.
@tRRRey
How's this for contributions:
If you don't like the stiff competition in a whale guild, find another guild.
If you don't like finishing below #3, go to another guild.
If you don't like the reward system, find another game.
If you don't want to leave the game, spare the rest of us from all the reward me because I showed up whining.
-Ashishin
This goes against the very idea of guilds, which should be about cooperation and solidarity.
Making members compete between them does not make sense.
Damage isn't even a good indicator, since there are different phases.
It's like measuring success in soccer by the number of goals scored, then blame the goalkeeper because he didn't score any.
This has NOTHING to do with entitlement or generations or whatever. This raid system is simply counter-intuitive and counter-productive.
Please keep your "entitlement generation" clichés
for yourself. It's not even true, it doesn't make sense and it's absolutely irrelevant.
The reward system is garbage. I'm truly hoping @CG_JohnSalera and team addresses the concerns surrounding it this week with a coherent game plan to fix it.
The system punishes everyone. Whether you are a whale in a whale guild or a f2p I'm a mixed spender guild, raiding is a team effort and rewards should be received as such. Arena is the place for competitive tiered rewards.
I think that in T7 heroic the guild leader (with officers help) should hand out the rewards on either a rota or give what is needed basis or even combine both. The arena is where sniping and competition should be a guild on the other hand should be geared towards teamwork and comradery and therefore everyone should win and stronger members can help out weaker to make them stronger rather than the strong get stronger and leave the others further behind.
The rewards in T7 are quite random anyway so i think this would work. I know for a fact it would work in our guild.
All for One and One for All.
Also, there should be at least a small prize for those unable to raid due to work or family commitments, providing they contributed to unlocking it. This game is played in guilds, which have players in different timezones so sometimes it's hard to make a raid at 3am.
Discussions about the terrible raid rewards in GoH often leave out the fact that this is a P2W game. If CG were to remove the ranking system and everyone were to get the same rewards, where would the incentive be to pay $$$ to move up the ranks? Yeah, nowhere.
The entire reward system is designed to encourage an arms race of real money spending - this is made all the more obvious by the presence of gear pieces which are unobtainable outside of raids. If you are not finishing in the top 3 you are at a major disadvantage gear-wise, and the only way to sneak into those coveted spots if you aren't already is by either guild hopping or dropping cash.
With enough outcry maybe CG will decide the toxic effects this system has on guilds and game participation in general will outweigh the extra money this system is earning them. But I doubt it, as ultimately people will become apathetic and just live with it.
Discussions about the terrible raid rewards in GoH often leave out the fact that this is a P2W game. If CG were to remove the ranking system and everyone were to get the same rewards, where would the incentive be to pay $$$ to move up the ranks? Yeah, nowhere.
The entire reward system is designed to encourage an arms race of real money spending - this is made all the more obvious by the presence of gear pieces which are unobtainable outside of raids. If you are not finishing in the top 3 you are at a major disadvantage gear-wise, and the only way to sneak into those coveted spots if you aren't already is by either guild hopping or dropping cash.
With enough outcry maybe CG will decide the toxic effects this system has on guilds and game participation in general will outweigh the extra money this system is earning them. But I doubt it, as ultimately people will become apathetic and just live with it.
Absolutely, what they may not realize or may not care about, is that we blatantly see through this. Many of us have already spent a lot. Those willing and/or capable of doing so have already done so. The game is already making money hand over foot. Even without the tiered reward system there are multiple levels of incentive to spend. There was simply no need to do this, and it even punishes those who have already heavily spent.
It's hard, you don't want any freeloaders who can just go in and register 1 dmg and at the same time get same loot as top contributors.
One solution would be to give everyone who done 100k or more, same rewards.
Everyone who participate in t7 will be able to do 100k.
If CG are afraid people will advance to fast then my solution would be to degrade rewards a bit.
Like everyone gets what today's 15-20 players receive.
Replies
Ahhh the big fish in a little pond or small fish in a big pond dilemma....
Its never going to be perfect its down to luck sometimes i can hit 350k with 1 team and then only 150k with the same team, this meta sucks and i completley agree everybody in my guild is hitting 600 contribution and just because my guild has raid preferable toons they get better rewards progress quicker then me and i get rubbish pulls the amount of same gear needed for toons that are only raid obtainable is insane since the raids have started ive only obtained 5 holo lens been months now and really killing the game for me i would much prefer a split pot between a guild as a reward or just better gear drops i cant progress and alot of toons are stuck at g9 going nowhere for a while!!!
Not a bad idea, but the current system needs to be reworked. Many guilds at this point are running t7 only, so next month there will be many guilds with 3000 points at month end, not just TI.
OP has a point, and not one with an easy solution. The 50th person in TI could probably be #1 with another guild. The difference is enormous because in TI he's only getting 1 Han Solo shard per raid (assuming finish towards the bottom) while in another guild he would be getting 5-10 per raid.
For this to happen, they would also need to eliminate guild hopping and have reward based on the 50 people within guild who stay in the guild for the full month.
Why does no one point out the actual benefit of being in a strong guild vs weak.
I am in weak guild. I am the dolphin. We do tier 3 raids 2-3 times a week. In a top guild you do raids 2-3 times a day unless at heroic level then every other day. Better loot from higher raids even if you are bottom tier. More loot due to more raids.
So whatever.
Punctuation, brother Brett. It does wonders for consumability of your message.
This guy again? Do you actually bring anything else to the discussion table?
Make Zader Great Again!
Make Zader Great Again!
No thanks.
A generation of entitlement. You want rewarded for just showing up. I know exactly what it means.
@Pacpac
Yup me again. Frequently, just not on reward me because I showed up posts.
@tRRRey
How's this for contributions:
If you don't like the stiff competition in a whale guild, find another guild.
If you don't like finishing below #3, go to another guild.
If you don't like the reward system, find another game.
If you don't want to leave the game, spare the rest of us from all the reward me because I showed up whining.
-Ashishin
There are several forum posts which address this question.
Some of the answers are related to the following,
How many people in your guild have deep rosters...
How many of those rosters are G9/10/11...
Specific characters/types of characters by phase....
How long it takes you to finish T6...
Incorrect. You devalue its meaning every time you use it. You have no clue what you're talking about and/or are trolling. Please continue to misapply it's meaning in a video game so others can continue to lol.
This is not little league baseball game where the losing team receives the same awards as the winning team so everyone walks away feeling good. This is a raid in an online multiplayer game where a groups of players cooperatively contribute for the the completion of a single goal. The current reward system doesn't exist in any MMO with similar mechanics.
A strong player in a weak guild finish a T6 in maybe 4 days, in a strong guild 1-2 days. So finishing 10th in the 2 times is still better than 2nd 1 time.
@Mol_Eliza_oops I do see your point though about some whales wanting to play with friends in smaller guilds and shouldn't be punished. Quite frankly that's a personal choice that you would make to sacrifice perhaps your competitive edge to enjoy the game with your buddies. I mean although that freedom is nice I think it works now because t7 is a joke. Once a harder raid is out and you can't beat it with a weaker guild, most will try joining a stronger one.
But again, the only way I can truly see real benefits of being powerful In a top tier guild is if they award that by perhaps having let's say "endless waves of rancor" to see how far our roster takes us. As @GeorgeRules suggested.
@GeneralHawk I agree. I think adding a reward for finishing top rank in guild leaderboards should also be rewarded, similar to the arena ranking system.
This goes against the very idea of guilds, which should be about cooperation and solidarity.
Making members compete between them does not make sense.
Damage isn't even a good indicator, since there are different phases.
It's like measuring success in soccer by the number of goals scored, then blame the goalkeeper because he didn't score any.
This has NOTHING to do with entitlement or generations or whatever. This raid system is simply counter-intuitive and counter-productive.
Please keep your "entitlement generation" clichés
for yourself. It's not even true, it doesn't make sense and it's absolutely irrelevant.
+1
The rewards in T7 are quite random anyway so i think this would work. I know for a fact it would work in our guild.
All for One and One for All.
The entire reward system is designed to encourage an arms race of real money spending - this is made all the more obvious by the presence of gear pieces which are unobtainable outside of raids. If you are not finishing in the top 3 you are at a major disadvantage gear-wise, and the only way to sneak into those coveted spots if you aren't already is by either guild hopping or dropping cash.
With enough outcry maybe CG will decide the toxic effects this system has on guilds and game participation in general will outweigh the extra money this system is earning them. But I doubt it, as ultimately people will become apathetic and just live with it.
Absolutely, what they may not realize or may not care about, is that we blatantly see through this. Many of us have already spent a lot. Those willing and/or capable of doing so have already done so. The game is already making money hand over foot. Even without the tiered reward system there are multiple levels of incentive to spend. There was simply no need to do this, and it even punishes those who have already heavily spent.
One solution would be to give everyone who done 100k or more, same rewards.
Everyone who participate in t7 will be able to do 100k.
If CG are afraid people will advance to fast then my solution would be to degrade rewards a bit.
Like everyone gets what today's 15-20 players receive.