I think the best solution for this is:
1. Remove the positions
2. Make different reward tiers for each player, depending on damage done.
For example:
Damage done - Tier
0 to 100k - t1
100k to 250k - t2
And so on.
The higher the Tier, the better the rewards
Yep, just change it to this and everyone will be happy, so guilds need to time there battles, to get top rewards, not like now who is the festes one will win..
It could be like 1 Million dmg to get Best prize with 10 Han shards, than all try Phase 1 to do like 600k dmg and if all reach it they just end the battle and try in Phase 2 till all get the Best. So Teamwork would payout and not the whaled luck whale that gets happy.
It's hard, you don't want any freeloaders who can just go in and register 1 dmg and at the same time get same loot as top contributors.
One solution would be to give everyone who done 100k or more, same rewards.
Everyone who participate in t7 will be able to do 100k.
If CG are afraid people will advance to fast then my solution would be to degrade rewards a bit.
Like everyone gets what today's 15-20 players receive.
But see, there's already a solution for dealing with freeloaders - kick them out of your guild. There is zero reason why raid rewards need to somehow deal with a problem that the leader/officers already have the authority to tackle.
Yes you are punished for being in a strong guild. Not only that, you are also punished for being in a strong server, in a popular time zone with a lot of strong players. Do not forget your GW also becomes very difficult because you have strong Arena power.
This system of "being in a strong group punishes you" is always there.
I think the simple solution is to just allow laps on heroic.
Beat the Rancor, and you can fight the captain again with remaining teams. With each additional phase you beat you improve the rewards for those outside the top 10. You also would get an additional 24 leaderboard points per extra phase you beat.
This rewards truly strong guilds and strong players within the guild.
Have to agree. It makes more sense that everyone does well if the guild does well. Maybe it should be a system where there is infinite damage that can be done to the enemy and the more damage the guild does the better rewards it gets.
You can also base guild score on how much damage is done. 1 point per 10k damage or something like that. Means they could actually do prizes for top guilds.
This isn't a good solution as it gets rid of the social aspect of the raid.
What social aspect? Try veing in my guild where you only have a 15 nin window to be logged on to click auto. The solution presented addresses every concern.
This isn't a good solution as it gets rid of the social aspect of the raid.
What social aspect? Try veing in my guild where you only have a 15 nin window to be logged on to click auto. The solution presented addresses every concern.
Everyone does their damage when they want to without any involvement from anyone else. It's just another thing you auto on your daily activity list.
It's a bad solution. It doesn't address guild leaderboard rankings and it doesn't encourage teamwork.
My solution of multiple rounds against the captain and Rancor is far superior. It features scaling prizes based on overall guild strength and a clear way to differentiate guilds on the leaderboard and it will force strategizing by guilds on who attacks when and with who.
The grass isn't greener on the other side. I'm a guild leader and can finish top three every raid although I choose not to. The only piece of full gear I every received on (over 20 raids now) was one level VII piece and I placed #10 that raid! I still do not have near enough salvage pieces for any VIII gear.
I look at the guild/raid system this way, if you're not top 20, don't be in that guild. If you're not top three, why try? If you're not number one, why spend money?
This system promotes infighting, ragequitting, multiple account(against EA tos not CG's), favoritism, and with amount of microtransactions, can probably get unfair business practices civil suit if monitored and researched thoroughly enough.
It doesn't really make sense to punish strong players who join a powerful guild.
It actually does make sense. Instead of having whales join other whales and then have them attempt content that is not meant for 50 accounts with 50 7* G9+ toons you can have whales spread the wealth, join guilds that are not so stacked, get more from their own toons, get better rewarded for their efforts, and by spreading the wealth there are a lot more happy people overall who are crushing T7 raids.
Try it sometime.
A simple fix: Since as a guild everyone contributes coins to start the raid, the rewards for those who participate should be pretty much the same.
This would just encourage people to do little or nothing and force the burden on a few people. Besides the rewards already are relatively close unless you're in the top-3.
I'd prefer that they had 5 rounds per day and let the guild leader choose when to start the next round. This way the guild leader can restrict everyone to 1 battle until he/she feels enough time has gone on to open it up to a second round.
Some good suggestions in here. But yeah you shouldn't have to drop your current guild to join a weaker one to gain more benefits, makes no sense.
@Mol_Eliza_oops I do see your point though about some whales wanting to play with friends in smaller guilds and shouldn't be punished. Quite frankly that's a personal choice that you would make to sacrifice perhaps your competitive edge to enjoy the game with your buddies. I mean although that freedom is nice I think it works now because t7 is a joke. Once a harder raid is out and you can't beat it with a weaker guild, most will try joining a stronger one.
But again, the only way I can truly see real benefits of being powerful In a top tier guild is if they award that by perhaps having let's say "endless waves of rancor" to see how far our roster takes us. As @GeorgeRules suggested.
I would be a modest example of a whale playing in a guild of friends.
There are 8 of us. I've finished first (by a wide margin) in each of our raids. That isn't saying a lot since only 3 of us can field 5 full teams in a T6 raid. But I have the roster and spending power to compete with the whales of TI (I just wish I had the foresight to pre-craft...stupid stupid me).
We can't do a T7 raid.
We can't do a T6 raid in less than a week.
It doesn't bother me, it's the choice I made.
If I want to get Han shards or raid more often, I'll join Ti...
And I certainly won't complain about rewards because I'm the one choosing how to play this game. It's clear how to get the rewards you want. There are a gazillion guilds. Find one where you can be top 3 and run with them. Or start your own. It's that simple. Make this game work for you by using the tools you have available.
Discussions about the terrible raid rewards in GoH often leave out the fact that this is a P2W game. If CG were to remove the ranking system and everyone were to get the same rewards, where would the incentive be to pay $$$ to move up the ranks? Yeah, nowhere.
The entire reward system is designed to encourage an arms race of real money spending - this is made all the more obvious by the presence of gear pieces which are unobtainable outside of raids. If you are not finishing in the top 3 you are at a major disadvantage gear-wise, and the only way to sneak into those coveted spots if you aren't already is by either guild hopping or dropping cash.
With enough outcry maybe CG will decide the toxic effects this system has on guilds and game participation in general will outweigh the extra money this system is earning them. But I doubt it, as ultimately people will become apathetic and just live with it.
This guy is right. I guarantee you it is working as intended. "Oh haven't farmed phasma... Need for raid". "Gotta buy leia." Intraguild dmg is the motivating factor for showing off for 99 percent of guilds--maybe not the handful of guilds that can auto heroic.
Do NOT expect this to change. Thoughtfully constructed. Working as intended.
Discussions about the terrible raid rewards in GoH often leave out the fact that this is a P2W game. If CG were to remove the ranking system and everyone were to get the same rewards, where would the incentive be to pay $$$ to move up the ranks? Yeah, nowhere.
The entire reward system is designed to encourage an arms race of real money spending - this is made all the more obvious by the presence of gear pieces which are unobtainable outside of raids. If you are not finishing in the top 3 you are at a major disadvantage gear-wise, and the only way to sneak into those coveted spots if you aren't already is by either guild hopping or dropping cash.
With enough outcry maybe CG will decide the toxic effects this system has on guilds and game participation in general will outweigh the extra money this system is earning them. But I doubt it, as ultimately people will become apathetic and just live with it.
Absolutely, what they may not realize or may not care about, is that we blatantly see through this. Many of us have already spent a lot. Those willing and/or capable of doing so have already done so. The game is already making money hand over foot. Even without the tiered reward system there are multiple levels of incentive to spend. There was simply no need to do this, and it even punishes those who have already heavily spent.
You think people aren't farming jawa a ton right now burning catina refreshes?? Yeah right... Rex?? You are the one percent. You have mostly maxed the content. They want to drive more into chromium and premium aspects. Can only imagine how excellent their in game sales metric$ look now.
"it even punishes those who have already heavily spent." is completely false. P2w are killing it in the top three of hundreds of guilds. You know the system. You know the game. You are asking for it to be changed for the 1 percent. Well it won't be changed. I can pretty much assure you that... A couple guilds are going to have a hard time generating $ufficient outcry... Smart players will heed the advice given here before on May 13:
Discussions about the terrible raid rewards in GoH often leave out the fact that this is a P2W game. If CG were to remove the ranking system and everyone were to get the same rewards, where would the incentive be to pay $$$ to move up the ranks? Yeah, nowhere.
The entire reward system is designed to encourage an arms race of real money spending - this is made all the more obvious by the presence of gear pieces which are unobtainable outside of raids. If you are not finishing in the top 3 you are at a major disadvantage gear-wise, and the only way to sneak into those coveted spots if you aren't already is by either guild hopping or dropping cash.
With enough outcry maybe CG will decide the toxic effects this system has on guilds and game participation in general will outweigh the extra money this system is earning them. But I doubt it, as ultimately people will become apathetic and just live with it.
This guy is right. I guarantee you it is working as intended. "Oh haven't farmed phasma... Need for raid". "Gotta buy leia." Intraguild dmg is the motivating factor for showing off for 99 percent of guilds--maybe not the handful of guilds that can auto heroic.
Do NOT expect this to change. Thoughtfully constructed. Working as intended.
Discussions about the terrible raid rewards in GoH often leave out the fact that this is a P2W game. If CG were to remove the ranking system and everyone were to get the same rewards, where would the incentive be to pay $$$ to move up the ranks? Yeah, nowhere.
The entire reward system is designed to encourage an arms race of real money spending - this is made all the more obvious by the presence of gear pieces which are unobtainable outside of raids. If you are not finishing in the top 3 you are at a major disadvantage gear-wise, and the only way to sneak into those coveted spots if you aren't already is by either guild hopping or dropping cash.
With enough outcry maybe CG will decide the toxic effects this system has on guilds and game participation in general will outweigh the extra money this system is earning them. But I doubt it, as ultimately people will become apathetic and just live with it.
Absolutely, what they may not realize or may not care about, is that we blatantly see through this. Many of us have already spent a lot. Those willing and/or capable of doing so have already done so. The game is already making money hand over foot. Even without the tiered reward system there are multiple levels of incentive to spend. There was simply no need to do this, and it even punishes those who have already heavily spent.
You think people aren't farming jawa a ton right now burning catina refreshes?? Yeah right... Rex?? You are the one percent. You have mostly maxed the content. They want to drive more into chromium and premium aspects. Can only imagine how excellent their in game sales metric$ look now.
"it even punishes those who have already heavily spent." is completely false. P2w are killing it in the top three of hundreds of guilds. You know the system. You know the game. You are asking for it to be changed for the 1 percent. Well it won't be changed. I can pretty much assure you that... A couple guilds are going to have a hard time generating $ufficient outcry... Smart players will heed the advice given here before on May 13:
Each month you wait you lose out on 15 pretty nice reward boxes. And Han Solo (83/145) is pretty close for p2w in mixed guilds...
Honestly it doesn't appear that this game has seen a serious uptick in income as a result of raids or anything else. The game, like most online games, has stagnated into where it will continue to sit without some kind of outside influence. For as many new paying players this game draws, it likely loses an equivalent amount. This will probably change as the rogue one release date nears, and we see renewed interest from former and new players due to the hype.
I think we see evidence of this stagnation with the changes to chromium and the release of individual toons to shipments for direct purchase. The sales are probably very lack luster, or at least far below their expectations. I think these changes were made to spur spending by players who either have an aversion to the randomness of the packs or have gone as far as their willing to go with chromium and want to finish their 5/6* toon through more direct purchases.
This issue impacts far more than the 1% of players and I know through the many great conversations we've had you're absolutely intelligent enough to already know this. The raid reward system absolutely punishes players of every pay type. Whether it's a whale in a guild of whales (since someone has to be last, even if the actual point spread is minute) or a guppy in a mixed guild. I don't recall (although I could be wrong) ever saying that 100% of the player base is punished, because obviously that can't be the case in a tiered reward system where someone has to be a winner. But someone will always lose. Which leads me to the next point:
It's also counter intuitive to the very nature of this type of content. We all recognize that it was designed to spur spending. But that doesn't make it right and risks alienating chunks of the player base due to the nature of what it is. Competition is great and the tiered rewards as a result are also great. I would love to see GvG implemented. Arena is a place where it already exists. But from a gameplay perspective it makes no sense in raids. It is a cooperative game mode that requires group effort to complete. I've played at least a dozen MMOs. Most don't have built in DPS meters and require addons. Even if they do, they've only ever been used as a means of measurement to determine if groups DPS is high enough to avoid hitting an enrage timer, and individual assessments of players either for self improvement or recruitment. Sometimes the best way to spur more spending is not blatantly monetizing every single aspect that can be monetized.
I think the best solution for this is:
1. Remove the positions
2. Make different reward tiers for each player, depending on damage done.
For example:
Damage done - Tier
0 to 100k - t1
100k to 250k - t2
And so on.
The higher the Tier, the better the rewards
Won't work for tier 7
Why? I don't see why this shouldn't work
Tier 7 goes too quickly. A lot of top guilds have to hold people back so everyone gets an attack in.
This)
Better choice would be to equal it as much as possible.
I suggested this before
Ranks affect the amount of credits and guild tokens received. Shards and chests are shared equally. You work as a team and you fight as a team the loot should be shared as such.
Unfortunately in it's current state guilds are not very guild like and you are punished for having more whales in your guild.
I agree. Your rewards shouldn't be soley on damage, but your guild currency and credits should. As long as everyone gets a hit in. You should get some kind of reward.
I think a fair solution would be to allow guilds to select a proportional payout or an equal payout scheme
LOL, That's like seeing clouds and 'calling it' before it rains. A lot of us 'called it', it wasn't hard to see coming. I think that the only ones that didn't 'call it' were a relatively small group of really hopeful whales.
Complaining about being punished for being in a 'strong guild' is like crying that the crowd doesn't cheer loud enough for you because there's someone better on your - already awesome - team. It does provide some insight into the world of a team full of whales, mind you.
My guild is comprised of a fistful (3-5) whales, some dolphins (Maybe 6-8) and the rest are tin guppies / F2P's. It's the most cohesive, enjoyable guild that I've been part of in quite some time... Impressive for a game that has a surprisingly poor 'guild' atmosphere. Our raid roster typically plays out something like this.
Whales fight for Top 5 and there is often congratulations when someone pulls out something cool when #4 bumps out #3 and vice versa.
Dolphins and big guppies jockey for position in the Top 20, trying to better their previous bests.
Guppies and dedicated F2P's slug it out for the Top 40, tweaking each raid to get a few more K damage than previous.
The guys who round out the bottom typcically don't have great rosters and are just happy to get into a Heroic every couple days and have the chance at getting gear otherwise unavailable to them.
. . . And everyone is HAPPY because that's how a guild is supposed to operate.
Could the rewards in general be better? Sure they could. Is the raid very lacklustre with regards to having the same overpowered DPS chars that dominate in arena / GW ALSO dominate in raids? Yup. Is it obvious that promoting competition amongst guild members - when real rewards are at stake - is a really bad thing? Painfully.
Good guilds will be good guilds DESPITE the devs not catering to their needs. That's what good guilds do. If you don't like being a the smallest of the big fish in a little pond, find a new pond where you're the biggest fish and try helping out someone else whilst helping yourself.
Complaining about being punished for being in a 'strong guild' is like crying that the crowd doesn't cheer loud enough for you because there's someone better on your - already awesome - team. It does provide some insight into the world of a team full of whales, mind you.
My guild is comprised of a fistful (3-5) whales, some dolphins (Maybe 6-8) and the rest are tin guppies / F2P's. It's the most cohesive, enjoyable guild that I've been part of in quite some time... Impressive for a game that has a surprisingly poor 'guild' atmosphere. Our raid roster typically plays out something like this.
Whales fight for Top 5 and there is often congratulations when someone pulls out something cool when #4 bumps out #3 and vice versa.
Dolphins and big guppies jockey for position in the Top 20, trying to better their previous bests.
Guppies and dedicated F2P's slug it out for the Top 40, tweaking each raid to get a few more K damage than previous.
The guys who round out the bottom typcically don't have great rosters and are just happy to get into a Heroic every couple days and have the chance at getting gear otherwise unavailable to them.
. . . And everyone is HAPPY because that's how a guild is supposed to operate.
Could the rewards in general be better? Sure they could. Is the raid very lacklustre with regards to having the same overpowered DPS chars that dominate in arena / GW ALSO dominate in raids? Yup. Is it obvious that promoting competition amongst guild members - when real rewards are at stake - is a really bad thing? Painfully.
Good guilds will be good guilds DESPITE the devs not catering to their needs. That's what good guilds do. If you don't like being a the smallest of the big fish in a little pond, find a new pond where you're the biggest fish and try helping out someone else whilst helping yourself.
I think that whales continue to stay in a guild where they're not seeing the rewards they could if they just went wherever they could dominate most speaks to the positive atmosphere of that guild. I think most people recognize that they couldskip town to a new guild that allows them to be the baddest on the street, but choose not to because they enjoy that guild and want to play with their friends. Advising that people go wherever is most self serving shows how broken the system is.
Discussions about the terrible raid rewards in GoH often leave out the fact that this is a P2W game. If CG were to remove the ranking system and everyone were to get the same rewards, where would the incentive be to pay $$$ to move up the ranks? Yeah, nowhere.
The entire reward system is designed to encourage an arms race of real money spending - this is made all the more obvious by the presence of gear pieces which are unobtainable outside of raids. If you are not finishing in the top 3 you are at a major disadvantage gear-wise, and the only way to sneak into those coveted spots if you aren't already is by either guild hopping or dropping cash.
With enough outcry maybe CG will decide the toxic effects this system has on guilds and game participation in general will outweigh the extra money this system is earning them. But I doubt it, as ultimately people will become apathetic and just live with it.
This guy is right. I guarantee you it is working as intended. "Oh haven't farmed phasma... Need for raid". "Gotta buy leia." Intraguild dmg is the motivating factor for showing off for 99 percent of guilds--maybe not the handful of guilds that can auto heroic.
Do NOT expect this to change. Thoughtfully constructed. Working as intended.
Discussions about the terrible raid rewards in GoH often leave out the fact that this is a P2W game. If CG were to remove the ranking system and everyone were to get the same rewards, where would the incentive be to pay $$$ to move up the ranks? Yeah, nowhere.
The entire reward system is designed to encourage an arms race of real money spending - this is made all the more obvious by the presence of gear pieces which are unobtainable outside of raids. If you are not finishing in the top 3 you are at a major disadvantage gear-wise, and the only way to sneak into those coveted spots if you aren't already is by either guild hopping or dropping cash.
With enough outcry maybe CG will decide the toxic effects this system has on guilds and game participation in general will outweigh the extra money this system is earning them. But I doubt it, as ultimately people will become apathetic and just live with it.
Absolutely, what they may not realize or may not care about, is that we blatantly see through this. Many of us have already spent a lot. Those willing and/or capable of doing so have already done so. The game is already making money hand over foot. Even without the tiered reward system there are multiple levels of incentive to spend. There was simply no need to do this, and it even punishes those who have already heavily spent.
You think people aren't farming jawa a ton right now burning catina refreshes?? Yeah right... Rex?? You are the one percent. You have mostly maxed the content. They want to drive more into chromium and premium aspects. Can only imagine how excellent their in game sales metric$ look now.
"it even punishes those who have already heavily spent." is completely false. P2w are killing it in the top three of hundreds of guilds. You know the system. You know the game. You are asking for it to be changed for the 1 percent. Well it won't be changed. I can pretty much assure you that... A couple guilds are going to have a hard time generating $ufficient outcry... Smart players will heed the advice given here before on May 13:
Each month you wait you lose out on 15 pretty nice reward boxes. And Han Solo (83/145) is pretty close for p2w in mixed guilds...
Honestly it doesn't appear that this game has seen a serious uptick in income as a result of raids or anything else. The game, like most online games, has stagnated into where it will continue to sit without some kind of outside influence. For as many new paying players this game draws, it likely loses an equivalent amount. This will probably change as the rogue one release date nears, and we see renewed interest from former and new players due to the hype.
I think we see evidence of this stagnation with the changes to chromium and the release of individual toons to shipments for direct purchase. The sales are probably very lack luster, or at least far below their expectations. I think these changes were made to spur spending by players who either have an aversion to the randomness of the packs or have gone as far as their willing to go with chromium and want to finish their 5/6* toon through more direct purchases.
This issue impacts far more than the 1% of players and I know through the many great conversations we've had you're absolutely intelligent enough to already know this. The raid reward system absolutely punishes players of every pay type. Whether it's a whale in a guild of whales (since someone has to be last, even if the actual point spread is minute) or a guppy in a mixed guild. I don't recall (although I could be wrong) ever saying that 100% of the player base is punished, because obviously that can't be the case in a tiered reward system where someone has to be a winner. But someone will always lose. Which leads me to the next point:
It's also counter intuitive to the very nature of this type of content. We all recognize that it was designed to spur spending. But that doesn't make it right and risks alienating chunks of the player base due to the nature of what it is. Competition is great and the tiered rewards as a result are also great. I would love to see GvG implemented. Arena is a place where it already exists. But from a gameplay perspective it makes no sense in raids. It is a cooperative game mode that requires group effort to complete. I've played at least a dozen MMOs. Most don't have built in DPS meters and require addons. Even if they do, they've only ever been used as a means of measurement to determine if groups DPS is high enough to avoid hitting an enrage timer, and individual assessments of players either for self improvement or recruitment. Sometimes the best way to spur more spending is not blatantly monetizing every single aspect that can be monetized.
Great response. Worth a read for @CG_JohnSalera Agree with 90% of what you say here. Stagnation. Blatantly monetizing every single aspect. Adverse effect on competition. Counter intuitive.
The one point I would reiterate is that there is a hack. There is a solution. Mixed guilds 5 whales 5 dolphins 10 guppies 30 f2p doing heroic makes everyone happy. It is the solution to the current predicament. It is the only satisfying approach. It works. Everyone gets exactly what they want and need.
If you choose not to take this approach it will hinder your advancement. It will build your resentment. You will be posting on forums at a greater rate decrying the system instead of working within it. You will be choosing to incorrectly farm and wasting your resources in a resource-allocation based game. You will be in error.
I haven't read through all this so don't know if it was mentioned. I like the idea of there being tiered damage levels to receive certain rewards. 100k, 200k and so forth
Here is the thing though. It is fine for people to get higher rewards if they do more damage but only IF you could get the same amount of damage wherever you hit.
In our guild it is basically if you hit P1 you will be top 10. If you don't you wont be. If you only get to catch P4 because you were asleep when it started then you might get into the 30's if you are lucky. That is why the raid rewards are unfair.
I think that whales continue to stay in a guild where they're not seeing the rewards they could if they just went wherever they could dominate most speaks to the positive atmosphere of that guild. I think most people recognize that they couldskip town to a new guild that allows them to be the baddest on the street, but choose not to because they enjoy that guild and want to play with their friends. Advising that people go wherever is most self serving shows how broken the system is.
Staying in a guild where you're not happy with what you're getting and asking that the system be catered to you in order that you ARE satisfied with what you're getting sounds a whole lot more self-serving than what I'm talking about...
I'm talking about whales helping other players who could use the helping hand of a big fat roster while the whale gets their Top 3 spot that is so highly coveted at the same time. Sounds like someone helping others while they help themselves instead of trying to only help themselves and complaining that they're not getting enough back. Remember, this whole thread is specifically about being punished for being in a "strong guild", this isn't a F2P asking for a helping hand because they can't afford to drop G notes on a game they play on their phone / tablet for an hour or so a day.
There are a lot of "strong guilds" out there that have Top 10 arena players, everyone finished GW daily, constant fast heroic clears... Being made up (almost?) entirely of whales doesn't necessarily denote a 'strong guild', it denotes a large group of people who spend money frivolously on electronic entertainment and have an inherent advantage in return for their monetary investment.
Damage tiers do work
Example my guild has multiple in 1Mill plus range on T7 hero raid so
Tier damage every 100k in increments and reward solo shards per 100k
Like old school game where you get an extra life every x amount of points
Do 1Mill get 10 shards, do 500k get 5 shards as examples
I did 600k plus recently and got 3 solo shards. That is not fair. A damage reward model is much more fair.
Replies
Yep, just change it to this and everyone will be happy, so guilds need to time there battles, to get top rewards, not like now who is the festes one will win..
It could be like 1 Million dmg to get Best prize with 10 Han shards, than all try Phase 1 to do like 600k dmg and if all reach it they just end the battle and try in Phase 2 till all get the Best. So Teamwork would payout and not the whaled luck whale that gets happy.
Best wishes ru It's a TrapRed
But see, there's already a solution for dealing with freeloaders - kick them out of your guild. There is zero reason why raid rewards need to somehow deal with a problem that the leader/officers already have the authority to tackle.
This system of "being in a strong group punishes you" is always there.
Beat the Rancor, and you can fight the captain again with remaining teams. With each additional phase you beat you improve the rewards for those outside the top 10. You also would get an additional 24 leaderboard points per extra phase you beat.
This rewards truly strong guilds and strong players within the guild.
You can also base guild score on how much damage is done. 1 point per 10k damage or something like that. Means they could actually do prizes for top guilds.
This isn't a good solution as it gets rid of the social aspect of the raid.
What social aspect? Try veing in my guild where you only have a 15 nin window to be logged on to click auto. The solution presented addresses every concern.
Everyone does their damage when they want to without any involvement from anyone else. It's just another thing you auto on your daily activity list.
It's a bad solution. It doesn't address guild leaderboard rankings and it doesn't encourage teamwork.
My solution of multiple rounds against the captain and Rancor is far superior. It features scaling prizes based on overall guild strength and a clear way to differentiate guilds on the leaderboard and it will force strategizing by guilds on who attacks when and with who.
Finish the Rancor and then captain Respawns and you fight again until you run out of toons.
Guilds get an extra 25 points per phase
Top rewards get expanded downward as each additional phase is beaten.
This is a cool solution, I like it (not that anyone cares ;-) ).
The extra phase thing will give more points to the guys with more toons but since the top rewards are expended downward, everyone wins.
And this will also show on the leaderboard that a guild with 2500 7* toons is better than a guild with 900 toons, which is perfectly ok.
Make it happen please !!
This system promotes infighting, ragequitting, multiple account(against EA tos not CG's), favoritism, and with amount of microtransactions, can probably get unfair business practices civil suit if monitored and researched thoroughly enough.
It actually does make sense. Instead of having whales join other whales and then have them attempt content that is not meant for 50 accounts with 50 7* G9+ toons you can have whales spread the wealth, join guilds that are not so stacked, get more from their own toons, get better rewarded for their efforts, and by spreading the wealth there are a lot more happy people overall who are crushing T7 raids.
Try it sometime.
This would just encourage people to do little or nothing and force the burden on a few people. Besides the rewards already are relatively close unless you're in the top-3.
I'd prefer that they had 5 rounds per day and let the guild leader choose when to start the next round. This way the guild leader can restrict everyone to 1 battle until he/she feels enough time has gone on to open it up to a second round.
I would be a modest example of a whale playing in a guild of friends.
There are 8 of us. I've finished first (by a wide margin) in each of our raids. That isn't saying a lot since only 3 of us can field 5 full teams in a T6 raid. But I have the roster and spending power to compete with the whales of TI (I just wish I had the foresight to pre-craft...stupid stupid me).
We can't do a T7 raid.
We can't do a T6 raid in less than a week.
It doesn't bother me, it's the choice I made.
If I want to get Han shards or raid more often, I'll join Ti...
And I certainly won't complain about rewards because I'm the one choosing how to play this game. It's clear how to get the rewards you want. There are a gazillion guilds. Find one where you can be top 3 and run with them. Or start your own. It's that simple. Make this game work for you by using the tools you have available.
This guy is right. I guarantee you it is working as intended. "Oh haven't farmed phasma... Need for raid". "Gotta buy leia." Intraguild dmg is the motivating factor for showing off for 99 percent of guilds--maybe not the handful of guilds that can auto heroic.
Do NOT expect this to change. Thoughtfully constructed. Working as intended.
You think people aren't farming jawa a ton right now burning catina refreshes?? Yeah right... Rex?? You are the one percent. You have mostly maxed the content. They want to drive more into chromium and premium aspects. Can only imagine how excellent their in game sales metric$ look now.
"it even punishes those who have already heavily spent." is completely false. P2w are killing it in the top three of hundreds of guilds. You know the system. You know the game. You are asking for it to be changed for the 1 percent. Well it won't be changed. I can pretty much assure you that... A couple guilds are going to have a hard time generating $ufficient outcry... Smart players will heed the advice given here before on May 13:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/39488/huge-tip-for-progressing-in-this-game#latest
Already spent and getting tired of spending? Don't buy Luce... Ummm sure... They know.
Each month you wait you lose out on 15 pretty nice reward boxes. And Han Solo (83/145) is pretty close for p2w in mixed guilds...
Honestly it doesn't appear that this game has seen a serious uptick in income as a result of raids or anything else. The game, like most online games, has stagnated into where it will continue to sit without some kind of outside influence. For as many new paying players this game draws, it likely loses an equivalent amount. This will probably change as the rogue one release date nears, and we see renewed interest from former and new players due to the hype.
I think we see evidence of this stagnation with the changes to chromium and the release of individual toons to shipments for direct purchase. The sales are probably very lack luster, or at least far below their expectations. I think these changes were made to spur spending by players who either have an aversion to the randomness of the packs or have gone as far as their willing to go with chromium and want to finish their 5/6* toon through more direct purchases.
This issue impacts far more than the 1% of players and I know through the many great conversations we've had you're absolutely intelligent enough to already know this. The raid reward system absolutely punishes players of every pay type. Whether it's a whale in a guild of whales (since someone has to be last, even if the actual point spread is minute) or a guppy in a mixed guild. I don't recall (although I could be wrong) ever saying that 100% of the player base is punished, because obviously that can't be the case in a tiered reward system where someone has to be a winner. But someone will always lose. Which leads me to the next point:
It's also counter intuitive to the very nature of this type of content. We all recognize that it was designed to spur spending. But that doesn't make it right and risks alienating chunks of the player base due to the nature of what it is. Competition is great and the tiered rewards as a result are also great. I would love to see GvG implemented. Arena is a place where it already exists. But from a gameplay perspective it makes no sense in raids. It is a cooperative game mode that requires group effort to complete. I've played at least a dozen MMOs. Most don't have built in DPS meters and require addons. Even if they do, they've only ever been used as a means of measurement to determine if groups DPS is high enough to avoid hitting an enrage timer, and individual assessments of players either for self improvement or recruitment. Sometimes the best way to spur more spending is not blatantly monetizing every single aspect that can be monetized.
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/26540/guilds-and-whales-speculation
I think a fair solution would be to allow guilds to select a proportional payout or an equal payout scheme
I agree. Your rewards shouldn't be soley on damage, but your guild currency and credits should. As long as everyone gets a hit in. You should get some kind of reward.
LOL, That's like seeing clouds and 'calling it' before it rains. A lot of us 'called it', it wasn't hard to see coming. I think that the only ones that didn't 'call it' were a relatively small group of really hopeful whales.
Our rule of thumb was if we could finish T6 in 24 hours with only 1 reset, however when we tried T7 we dominated it.
My guild is comprised of a fistful (3-5) whales, some dolphins (Maybe 6-8) and the rest are tin guppies / F2P's. It's the most cohesive, enjoyable guild that I've been part of in quite some time... Impressive for a game that has a surprisingly poor 'guild' atmosphere. Our raid roster typically plays out something like this.
. . . And everyone is HAPPY because that's how a guild is supposed to operate.
Could the rewards in general be better? Sure they could. Is the raid very lacklustre with regards to having the same overpowered DPS chars that dominate in arena / GW ALSO dominate in raids? Yup. Is it obvious that promoting competition amongst guild members - when real rewards are at stake - is a really bad thing? Painfully.
Good guilds will be good guilds DESPITE the devs not catering to their needs. That's what good guilds do. If you don't like being a the smallest of the big fish in a little pond, find a new pond where you're the biggest fish and try helping out someone else whilst helping yourself.
I think that whales continue to stay in a guild where they're not seeing the rewards they could if they just went wherever they could dominate most speaks to the positive atmosphere of that guild. I think most people recognize that they couldskip town to a new guild that allows them to be the baddest on the street, but choose not to because they enjoy that guild and want to play with their friends. Advising that people go wherever is most self serving shows how broken the system is.
Great response. Worth a read for @CG_JohnSalera Agree with 90% of what you say here. Stagnation. Blatantly monetizing every single aspect. Adverse effect on competition. Counter intuitive.
The one point I would reiterate is that there is a hack. There is a solution. Mixed guilds 5 whales 5 dolphins 10 guppies 30 f2p doing heroic makes everyone happy. It is the solution to the current predicament. It is the only satisfying approach. It works. Everyone gets exactly what they want and need.
If you choose not to take this approach it will hinder your advancement. It will build your resentment. You will be posting on forums at a greater rate decrying the system instead of working within it. You will be choosing to incorrectly farm and wasting your resources in a resource-allocation based game. You will be in error.
In our guild it is basically if you hit P1 you will be top 10. If you don't you wont be. If you only get to catch P4 because you were asleep when it started then you might get into the 30's if you are lucky. That is why the raid rewards are unfair.
Staying in a guild where you're not happy with what you're getting and asking that the system be catered to you in order that you ARE satisfied with what you're getting sounds a whole lot more self-serving than what I'm talking about...
I'm talking about whales helping other players who could use the helping hand of a big fat roster while the whale gets their Top 3 spot that is so highly coveted at the same time. Sounds like someone helping others while they help themselves instead of trying to only help themselves and complaining that they're not getting enough back. Remember, this whole thread is specifically about being punished for being in a "strong guild", this isn't a F2P asking for a helping hand because they can't afford to drop G notes on a game they play on their phone / tablet for an hour or so a day.
There are a lot of "strong guilds" out there that have Top 10 arena players, everyone finished GW daily, constant fast heroic clears... Being made up (almost?) entirely of whales doesn't necessarily denote a 'strong guild', it denotes a large group of people who spend money frivolously on electronic entertainment and have an inherent advantage in return for their monetary investment.
Example my guild has multiple in 1Mill plus range on T7 hero raid so
Tier damage every 100k in increments and reward solo shards per 100k
Like old school game where you get an extra life every x amount of points
Do 1Mill get 10 shards, do 500k get 5 shards as examples
I did 600k plus recently and got 3 solo shards. That is not fair. A damage reward model is much more fair.