I don't think Count Dooku and Barriss Offee have to be nerfed. I have encountered team with Barriss and Dooku and I have no problem on winning the match. Dooku doesn't have much health and can be finished easily when you get a high damage character. Barriss is good at healing, but I don't think it is unbeatable. Once you have Sid or ig88 to immune your target from healing, no matter how great the healing is, you still can't heal them. That being said, you just need different tatics and strategy on different opponents. That is the beauty of the game. If you nerfed both of them, the balance of the character will be ruined and I think many of the players will eventually quit and stop buying crystal. If they should be nerfed, Old Ben and Darth Maul Should too. Maul gave over 4k critical damage of AoE attack which is ridiculous. Old Ben blocks all ability and reduces damage for 3 rounds can simply end the match right away. Lando hit AOE every round is also overpowered. Every character has their own value. If you put the right one together, even the weakest five of them can become a powerful team.
Barriss is not OP, I defeat Barriss teams multiple times a day. And I have her and know her limitations.
If you nerf Barriss and Dooku you are sending a strong message to those of us who have already paid money for this game: "think twice before doing it again". Seriously, I am happy to support a game with cash but not if it will become bait-and-switch. I don't expect to get a refund, but that doesn't mean this is a smart business move. And as others have pointed out, it is not necessary. At higher levels she becomes much less important.
Also, "very low drop rate of shards from missions" should be on this list. It is not reasonable to expect us to take up our entire energy bar to get 1 shard for 1 character.
Barriss is not OP, I defeat Barriss teams multiple times a day. And I have her and know her limitations.
If you nerf Barriss and Dooku you are sending a strong message to those of us who have already paid money for this game: "think twice before doing it again". Seriously, I am happy to support a game with cash but not if it will become bait-and-switch. I don't expect to get a refund, but that doesn't mean this is a smart business move. And as others have pointed out, it is not necessary. At higher levels she becomes much less important.
But those players that paid for her didn't do it because they thought they were getting an advantage (or so I'm told). They actually just like her as a character. So why does it matter if she's nerfed anyway?
But those players that paid for her didn't do it because they thought they were getting an advantage (or so I'm told). They actually just like her as a character. So why does it matter if she's nerfed anyway?
I bought that pack because I thought it had cool characters and it would give me an advantage. I like spending a small amount of $ early in the game because then you get to more quickly unlock better parts of it, which allows me to more easily keep close to the people who spend thousands.
Most people bought the pack because of what the characters can do and we all know it, so the sarcasm isn't helping the discussion.
I don't think Count Dooku and Barriss Offee have to be nerfed. I have encountered team with Barriss and Dooku and I have no problem on winning the match. Dooku doesn't have much health and can be finished easily when you get a high damage character. Barriss is good at healing, but I don't think it is unbeatable. Once you have Sid or ig88 to immune your target from healing, no matter how great the healing is, you still can't heal them. That being said, you just need different tatics and strategy on different opponents. That is the beauty of the game. If you nerfed both of them, the balance of the character will be ruined and I think many of the players will eventually quit and stop buying crystal. If they should be nerfed, Old Ben and Darth Maul Should too. Maul gave over 4k critical damage of AoE attack which is ridiculous. Old Ben blocks all ability and reduces damage for 3 rounds can simply end the match right away. Lando hit AOE every round is also overpowered. Every character has their own value. If you put the right one together, even the weakest five of them can become a powerful team.
If they nerf these two, you can just be certain that they will nerf Old Ben, Lando, and the rest of premium toons. They know very well how strong Dooku and Barriss are at early stage. They know premium toons are Op, and people are pouring money in to get the chars. And they still let that happen. Is that intentional or just a technical issue. They do tonnes of simulations before releasing chars. And these folks are smart enough to know which chars are op before any of us knows. And even if it is a technical problem, it s not customers fault.
Even for F2p players, imagine you grind a toon for 1,2 months because he s good. Just b4 you finish getting shards for him , he s nerfed. Or you get a lucky pull and get your dream char and next day he s nerfed!
Barriss is not OP, I defeat Barriss teams multiple times a day. And I have her and know her limitations.
If you nerf Barriss and Dooku you are sending a strong message to those of us who have already paid money for this game: "think twice before doing it again". Seriously, I am happy to support a game with cash but not if it will become bait-and-switch. I don't expect to get a refund, but that doesn't mean this is a smart business move. And as others have pointed out, it is not necessary. At higher levels she becomes much less important.
But those players that paid for her didn't do it because they thought they were getting an advantage (or so I'm told). They actually just like her as a character. So why does it matter if she's nerfed anyway?
I know you're being sarcastic but you keep repeating this line like it's supposed to mean something
They didn't buy the packs because the characters are OP. They bought them because they were lead to believe that they were OP when they're actually not that bad. And now that they realise it, they don't want Barriss to get nerfed because then she becomes useless and that means they've wasted their money.
And before you say it, no I didn't pay $80 for the Barriss pack (yes it cost $80 because I'm in Australia )
Yeah, it s expensive in Australia. It s a potentially a good game and I dont want to quit the game that s why I throw in a bit of chat. I spent some money but less than I throw in one night at Star City or Crown lol. So it s not gonna kill me if they nerf all the premium toons. I would just get frustrated because I like the game.
I know you're being sarcastic but you keep repeating this line like it's supposed to mean something
You're on to me! The sarcasm is meant to make a point to a specific crowd. Those who are in that crowd, as well as those on the same page as me, get what I am saying, and need no further explanation.
It's for all those in the forums that tried to act as though they bought her for reasons other than a perceived advantage. Now they are coming out of the woodwork showing their true intents. Paragraph 3 & 5 of the Terms of Service says those players are going to be quite upset.
I wasn't going to accuse you of buying. I don't see anything wrong with people buying stuff anyway. I just like to poke fun at those who buy only for "OP", but try to mask it as something else.
But those players that paid for her didn't do it because they thought they were getting an advantage (or so I'm told). They actually just like her as a character. So why does it matter if she's nerfed anyway?
I bought that pack because I thought it had cool characters and it would give me an advantage. I like spending a small amount of $ early in the game because then you get to more quickly unlock better parts of it, which allows me to more easily keep close to the people who spend thousands.
Most people bought the pack because of what the characters can do and we all know it, so the sarcasm isn't helping the discussion.
My sarcasm does help, as it brings light to the many threads of folks acting as though they didn't buy the characters for the perceived advantage. They didn't want to be called P2Wers, so they made up other excuses for their purchases. To be fair, there were some who were open about the fact they choose to pay for an advantage. But for those still masquerading, this BUD is good you.
Hell, they could decide not to nerf them. Either way, I got great entertainment out of the whole situation. It doesn't matter to me either way, as I have no vested interest on either side.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate others funding these types of games, so that I can play for free. However, after so many games doing the same things, you'd think gamers would learn their lessons, and stop being such fools in falling for the same tricks...
Well, if they do sell some sexy char with good health then I might throw money in. Good health because I want her to stay in a battle long enough so I can see her animations.
My sarcasm does help, as it brings light to the many threads of folks acting as though they didn't buy the characters for the perceived advantage. They didn't want to be called P2Wers, so they made up other excuses for their purchases. To be fair, there were some who were open about the fact they choose to pay for an advantage. But for those still masquerading, this BUD is good you.
Well, it's boring after being repeated over and over. Very few people spend $50 on a game without expecting to get something from it, so why keep belaboring the point?
@Pokebreaker Fair enough, you weren't going to call me out on buying the Barriss pack, I just felt I needed to state it for the record since a lot of people seem to think I'm only claiming she's not OP to "protect my investment". An actual quote from someone on these boards lol
When in actual fact I'm just trying to be the logical counterpoint to the crowd of OP believers
@Ander This is exactly the reason why I hope the devs at Capital Games don't cave in to F2P crowd who are currently causing such a fuss about this. If they nerf Barriss significantly they're going to screw themselves over completely with their paying customers and it will look very bad on their part even if it genuinely wasn't their intention to begin with.
Well, it's boring after being repeated over and over. Very few people spend $50 on a game without expecting to get something from it, so why keep belaboring the point?
Slushie is that AU$80 or US$80 you have to pay?
You might be the only person that actually reads every post within a thread, and because of that your see then more often (you're a rare breed). The average forumgoer reads the original post, and maybe a few after that, then jumps to the middle, then to the end. My goal is to spread the message where the average reader will see my words. I'm like a street corner preacher, I go to where I know the laymen are plentiful.
I appreciate the dialogue though, even though we find ourselves on opposite ends of the table. But if we weren't, then the conversations wouldn't be as interesting.
But those players that paid for her didn't do it because they thought they were getting an advantage (or so I'm told). They actually just like her as a character. So why does it matter if she's nerfed anyway?
I bought that pack because I thought it had cool characters and it would give me an advantage. I like spending a small amount of $ early in the game because then you get to more quickly unlock better parts of it, which allows me to more easily keep close to the people who spend thousands.
Most people bought the pack because of what the characters can do and we all know it, so the sarcasm isn't helping the discussion.
My sarcasm does help, as it brings light to the many threads of folks acting as though they didn't buy the characters for the perceived advantage. They didn't want to be called P2Wers, so they made up other excuses for their purchases. To be fair, there were some who were open about the fact they choose to pay for an advantage. But for those still masquerading, this BUD is good you.
Hell, they could decide not to nerf them. Either way, I got great entertainment out of the whole situation. It doesn't matter to me either way, as I have no vested interest on either side.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate others funding these types of games, so that I can play for free. However, after so many games doing the same things, you'd think gamers would learn their lessons, and stop being such fools in falling for the same tricks...
All your posts are very condescending and elitist. You're so amused and laughing at everyone...you're the smartest guy in the room..referencing "laymen" and "average forumgoer"...etc. It's also odd that you admit that you're getting entertainment out of the discomfort of others.
The reason people purchased something or not should have no relevancy here. It's whether these toons are broken / OP or not...and they are not. That's the relevant issue.
You're also making a statement that people only spend on OP stuff...totally not true. There are people spending for farming units like Ahsoka, Consular, Chewy, Sidious....by your logic, since they are spending money farming those units, does that make them OP by default? Presenting proof that something is OP because people spent money on it is very weak. There were folks that bought the Mace Windu pack as well and the droid pack...are all those units OP too? I don't understand how your point can be consistently applied across all spending transactions.
For a guy that doesn't care you sure are posting a lot here.
I have a 6* Consular, at gear 5, and a 4* Barris at gear 6...that Consular is a more critical part of my team than Barriss. Should Consular be nerfed? He heals for more than her on average per toon (>2K) and his damage offensively is 2-3x that of Barriss. People just need to build up other units and get them to a mature level to make a fair comparison. I do read posts BTW...and you mentioning that you are stuck on 4L indicates you do not have a well built roster yet - so how can you make a comparison of your toons against a ready-made 4* unit from a pack? Do you have other 4/5/6* toons to face her with? What are people using against Barriss to make this claim?
The reason I'm against a nerf on these units is they are just not OP in the overall game. If these units get nerf and are considered OP, than we have A LOT more nerfs coming on the way once more toons get built out in the population. So if these units set the bar for possible nerf, than EA / CG is setting a precedent that is going to result in a notable portion of the roster being negatively impacted.
I think CG / EA did a great job balancing these units. The game overall is pretty well balanced when you take the entire roster in to consideration. Let's let the game develop a bit and people build up units that counter other units before calling stuff OP. Regarding these two units, let's examine their abilities and what they are...and also consider what a nerf would do.
Dooku: below average health unit, average damage dealing unit, does have powerful stun ability on attack which boosts his effective power. To compensate for being average in his stats, he is a quick toon that gets in multiple hit points. Take away, via nerf, his multiple hit points and he's just a squishy toon with average power. He would then be poorly balanced in the direction of being weak.
Barriss: Very tanky with a good heal mechanic. She has no aoe, no negative effects she can put down on the enemy, and she has ridiculously low damage output capacity. You have her on your team and you are offensively going 4 vs. 5. So let's say they nerf her heal...what does Barriss than do? Just die kinda slow? Why would you use her? If she doesn't effectively heal, and they don't offset this nerf with an increase in power, she will then have no real value to the squad. Her leader ability would still be decent, but you can't carry just that alone and compensate for having such a weak damage output unit.
So any nerf here to either unit needs to come with some accompanying offset buff. These are both balanced units that are not even the most deadly on the roster...not by a long shot. They can't afford to have a pure nerf with no offsetting change.
I can absolutely be pro nerf on some toons if they are OP, but this is a bad move here. The precedent would be set and any other toon people can't instantly defeat would be in serious danger of being on the nerf block (Ima, Ben, Sidious, Vader, Lando, etc. owners should be very concerned about this).
All your posts are very condescending and elitist.
Perhaps some of his posts are, but it's the very nature of sarcasm (as he admitted above). I see the point he's trying to make (and I agree with it in fact). Calling out a tone argument makes the conversation go sideways though.
As I argued in a quieter thread, people spend money to save time: characters currently offered in packs can be farmed. Those with little control may want to "pwn" quickly without effort, and perhaps, just perhaps, there is this general tendency in human beings to look for people who to agree with them, in a manner of "yeah you spent too, so I it was OK that I did" psychology.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter to anyone else but "you". I did spend a lot on a freemium and I don't want to repeat the experience because today I realize those pixels and glory have been deleted from my phone and I'm none the wiser... Except I've got more control now, but less money
Regarding tone: I've read the "guides" here and even the ones for "people on a budget" recommend spending on the game, which is sort of hypocritical. I dislike that personally, but I'm not going to throw a fit over it because I'm annoyed reading them.
The same is happening here as with the HoDA forums: lot's of whine, much less useful content, those who spend vs those who don't drama. OP-this Nerf-that etc. It's all good. It's a game. Played by passionate people, some clueless, others obsessed with numbers, others with beating the odds, and others just to collect their favourites.
All your posts are very condescending and elitist.
Perhaps some of his posts are, but it's the very nature of sarcasm (as he admitted above). I see the point he's trying to make (and I agree with it in fact).
What point do you agree with though? He's in a nerf thread arguing about spending habits. The points seem way off topic and just trolling. Admitting you're being sarcastic doesn't make it any more excusable to come off as an elitist and belittle other people. That's not sarcasm. Saying that money spent on a unit means it is OP and justifies it being nerfed isn't sensible. Should we nerf all the pack toons than? HK 47 and also Mace Windu? People also spend money farming non-pack toons - should they be nerfed? Where would the line be drawn?
I don't agree with any of his points and he hasn't put forth any real justification that they should be nerfed.
I also totally agree with much of your post above. Much of this is the same stuff lol....the pay / free contention here though seems especially sharp.
What point do you agree with though? He's in a nerf thread arguing about spending habits.
And you're arguing about his tone
1) "P2Wers coming to protect their investment" - all current OP/nerf arguments on this forum do come off this way to be honest. There's hardly unbiased opinion to be found on Barris.
2) "Players don't spend money on things that are junk; they spend money on things that are considered "OP" [...] with the IDEA of what they're getting being OP." + "It's for all those in the forums that tried to act as though they bought her for reasons other than a perceived advantage. " - arguing that Barris is pretty strong from the P2W point of view.
You're arguing against the nerf because you say she is not "OP", but your opinion can be perceived as biased because you spent money and have characters that can beat teams with her. It's hard to remove the P2W aura around your arguments, which is simply what he is pointing out.
My opinion on Barris as someone who does not have her: I don't care. I really don't. I don't even know who she is in the SW world. I may get her from farming a node eventually. I can deal with the game as it stands without investing my energy in stats and number arguments. If she is nerfed, she will be for all players, those who bought her and those who farmed her and those who got lucky with a bronze pack. So... Why does it matter? The game won't break over that. Only those who spent effort/time/money on her will likely get ****, but what can you expect, it's CG.
The fact that the company did nerf chars like Sid or Ig-88 in the past (or so I heard), raised some alarm already. In some games, you get shards (can buy any char type of shards) back, so we dont really worry. Here they dont or not yet, so we should think twice before pressing the transaction button.
They didnt nerf Sid or Ig-88 that bad so I still have some hope but nevertherless they did nerf chars. Also they might introduce new chars that make all current ones junk (there goes our time and or money). Hopefully they wont do that.
Regardless of what everyone says about money or not money, or how they enjoy the game, I believe everyone wants stable progression in a game. You dont want to wake up one day to see your favourite sexy char's costumes get nerfed. If you do nerf give me an option to get another char that I want!
Regardless of what everyone says about money or not money, or how they enjoy the game, I believe everyone wants stable progression in a game. You dont want to wake up one day to see your favourite sexy char's costumes get nerfed. If you do nerf give me an option to get another char that I want!
Ok, for siths and giggles: how about, instead of nerfing Barris, we boost up the Snowtrooper? Or the Ewok? I've yet to fall in love with them.
BTW we're talking about Capital Games/EA here, creators of Heroes of Dragon Age, a freemium notorious for its immense power creep over time, and characters getting superseded within a few weeks of their release. So really, while I do relate to the frustration of dealing with change on one's roster, I much prefer the nerfing of a few characters to seeing SWGoH suffers the same issue as HoDA did.
I'm still eyeing the game sideways in that regards (til new packs/characters come out, we shall see).
You're arguing against the nerf because you say she is not "OP", but your opinion can be perceived as biased because you spent money and have characters that can beat teams with her. It's hard to remove the P2W aura around your arguments, which is simply what he is pointing out.
My opinion on Barris as someone who does not have her: I don't care. I really don't. I don't even know who she is in the SW world. I may get her from farming a node eventually. I can deal with the game as it stands without investing my energy in stats and number arguments. If she is nerfed, she will be for all players, those who bought her and those who farmed her and those who got lucky with a bronze pack. So... Why does it matter? The game won't break over that. Only those who spent effort/time/money on her will likely get ****, but what can you expect, it's CG.
Biased or informed? If someone doesn't have Barriss, and also doesn't have a roster that is on her 4* level, how can you evaluate if she's OP? Now, I don't mean other pack toons - but farmable non-pack toons. I gave a concrete example of a built of Consular that I have that outperforms her on my own team. He was 1*. I'm still building him to get him to 7* he's that nice. I've also found various other farmable non-pack toons to be great - even the 1* can get really good once you take them to 4/5/6* as the stat modifiers increase.
The pack toons come out of the box as 3/4* though - of course after 1 week or less than a week they will be better than the other toons that need to be farmed up - not because they are OP though necessarily, but because the rest of the roster population hasn't been built up. Nerfing them just because they had a star level jump start on most non-pack toons is silly. What is going to be the call when more of the really top tier toons leak out in to the population? Toons that...btw...counter Barriss / Dooku very well. Looking at you Darth Sidious.
When so little of most people's roster is fully built and many toons unlocked that can provide counters, you can't make a legit game-wide decision on if a toon is OP. Lumi for example, is as good or possibly better given the situation as Barriss. She can also heal at a strong rate like Barriss, but has an ability block effect on the enemy and hits very hard in terms of physical damage. Not as tanky individually, but not weak either. She's a scarier toon in some respects. She would / should also be on the nerf block if Barriss is. This is my main point being against the nerf - I think it's just a misinformed opinion because there are lots of other toons just as strong or stronger. There should be calls for nerfs for a ton of toons. Barriss and Dooku are just being noticed because they came from packs and were ready made 3/4* toons.
Wow, some forum moderation is in order in this thread lol. I actually thought the purpose of this thread when I came in was to help identify more bugs to add to the "known bugs" list. To that end, I would like to bring it to EA_Jesse's attention that Galactic War is bugged when it selects your opponent. Often players are seeing opponents 7-15 levels higher (as high as level 60!!) when their own level is 38-45. That's a titanic issue and bug because it really holds players back (especially F2P) from progressing in the game. Please make this a #1 priority for fixing. Thanks!
Also another bug, some players have mentioned having an achievement for having a certain # of allies. I do not have this achievement, nor do several others I have talked to. Please check on this. Thanks.
Barriss and Dooku are just being noticed because they came from packs and were ready made 3/4* toons.
so... the OP/nerf arguments do have the tone of: those who bought packs v. those who haven't
I understand your point: don't touch characters until the game is more "stable". i.e. Other characters hardly anyone has right now can require a nerf too based on stats/numbers arguments alone.
Though, you have to understand from an emotional, frustrating point of view that watching P2W players getting a ton of strong units right up front does give off a feeling of instability/power creep to the game because those few get the edge while the mass doesn't. It's seemingly a question of volume of units released in the game, through packs. No stats/number argument will take away the irrational frustration of being repeatedly beat in a game.
I can deal with that. For now Still keeping an eye on power creep.
Barriss and Dooku are just being noticed because they came from packs and were ready made 3/4* toons.
so... the OP/nerf arguments do have the tone of: those who bought packs v. those who haven't
I understand your point: don't touch characters until the game is more "stable". i.e. Other characters hardly anyone has right now can require a nerf too based on stats/numbers arguments alone.
Though, you have to understand from an emotional, frustrating point of view that watching P2W players getting a ton of strong units right up front does give off a feeling of instability/power creep to the game because those few get the edge while the mass doesn't. It's seemingly a question of volume of units released in the game, through packs. No stats/number argument will take away the irrational frustration of being repeatedly beat in a game.
I can deal with that. For now Still keeping an eye on power creep.
I do understand the emotional frustration. Makes total sense.
Just on a side note...relative to another game we've played, this game really is pretty well balanced if you go across the roster. CG had a post on the other forum for a game balance position and I think overall they did an excellent job. Sounds like they also were smart in the beta launch and took feedback from players about balance. Nothing's perfect, but I see that in general they are striving for a level of balance, counters, and competitive play.
I'm also keeping an eye out for excessive power creep and a few other issues. So far though I like what I see. There's lots of potential here.
Also another bug, some players have mentioned having an achievement for having a certain # of allies. I do not have this achievement, nor do several others I have talked to. Please check on this. Thanks.
Glad you mentioned this SK - I'm in the 'do not have' camp and having those additional DV shards would be very nice.
Replies
If you nerf Barriss and Dooku you are sending a strong message to those of us who have already paid money for this game: "think twice before doing it again". Seriously, I am happy to support a game with cash but not if it will become bait-and-switch. I don't expect to get a refund, but that doesn't mean this is a smart business move. And as others have pointed out, it is not necessary. At higher levels she becomes much less important.
But those players that paid for her didn't do it because they thought they were getting an advantage (or so I'm told). They actually just like her as a character. So why does it matter if she's nerfed anyway?
I bought that pack because I thought it had cool characters and it would give me an advantage. I like spending a small amount of $ early in the game because then you get to more quickly unlock better parts of it, which allows me to more easily keep close to the people who spend thousands.
Most people bought the pack because of what the characters can do and we all know it, so the sarcasm isn't helping the discussion.
Even for F2p players, imagine you grind a toon for 1,2 months because he s good. Just b4 you finish getting shards for him , he s nerfed. Or you get a lucky pull and get your dream char and next day he s nerfed!
I know you're being sarcastic but you keep repeating this line like it's supposed to mean something
They didn't buy the packs because the characters are OP. They bought them because they were lead to believe that they were OP when they're actually not that bad. And now that they realise it, they don't want Barriss to get nerfed because then she becomes useless and that means they've wasted their money.
And before you say it, no I didn't pay $80 for the Barriss pack (yes it cost $80 because I'm in Australia
You're on to me! The sarcasm is meant to make a point to a specific crowd. Those who are in that crowd, as well as those on the same page as me, get what I am saying, and need no further explanation.
It's for all those in the forums that tried to act as though they bought her for reasons other than a perceived advantage. Now they are coming out of the woodwork showing their true intents. Paragraph 3 & 5 of the Terms of Service says those players are going to be quite upset.
I wasn't going to accuse you of buying. I don't see anything wrong with people buying stuff anyway. I just like to poke fun at those who buy only for "OP", but try to mask it as something else.
My sarcasm does help, as it brings light to the many threads of folks acting as though they didn't buy the characters for the perceived advantage. They didn't want to be called P2Wers, so they made up other excuses for their purchases. To be fair, there were some who were open about the fact they choose to pay for an advantage. But for those still masquerading, this BUD is good you.
Hell, they could decide not to nerf them. Either way, I got great entertainment out of the whole situation. It doesn't matter to me either way, as I have no vested interest on either side.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate others funding these types of games, so that I can play for free. However, after so many games doing the same things, you'd think gamers would learn their lessons, and stop being such fools in falling for the same tricks...
Well, it's boring after being repeated over and over. Very few people spend $50 on a game without expecting to get something from it, so why keep belaboring the point?
Slushie is that AU$80 or US$80 you have to pay?
When in actual fact I'm just trying to be the logical counterpoint to the crowd of OP believers
@Qeltar I meant AU$80
@Ander This is exactly the reason why I hope the devs at Capital Games don't cave in to F2P crowd who are currently causing such a fuss about this. If they nerf Barriss significantly they're going to screw themselves over completely with their paying customers and it will look very bad on their part even if it genuinely wasn't their intention to begin with.
You might be the only person that actually reads every post within a thread, and because of that your see then more often (you're a rare breed). The average forumgoer reads the original post, and maybe a few after that, then jumps to the middle, then to the end. My goal is to spread the message where the average reader will see my words. I'm like a street corner preacher, I go to where I know the laymen are plentiful.
I appreciate the dialogue though, even though we find ourselves on opposite ends of the table. But if we weren't, then the conversations wouldn't be as interesting.
I second this
All your posts are very condescending and elitist. You're so amused and laughing at everyone...you're the smartest guy in the room..referencing "laymen" and "average forumgoer"...etc. It's also odd that you admit that you're getting entertainment out of the discomfort of others.
The reason people purchased something or not should have no relevancy here. It's whether these toons are broken / OP or not...and they are not. That's the relevant issue.
You're also making a statement that people only spend on OP stuff...totally not true. There are people spending for farming units like Ahsoka, Consular, Chewy, Sidious....by your logic, since they are spending money farming those units, does that make them OP by default? Presenting proof that something is OP because people spent money on it is very weak. There were folks that bought the Mace Windu pack as well and the droid pack...are all those units OP too? I don't understand how your point can be consistently applied across all spending transactions.
For a guy that doesn't care you sure are posting a lot here.
I have a 6* Consular, at gear 5, and a 4* Barris at gear 6...that Consular is a more critical part of my team than Barriss. Should Consular be nerfed? He heals for more than her on average per toon (>2K) and his damage offensively is 2-3x that of Barriss. People just need to build up other units and get them to a mature level to make a fair comparison. I do read posts BTW...and you mentioning that you are stuck on 4L indicates you do not have a well built roster yet - so how can you make a comparison of your toons against a ready-made 4* unit from a pack? Do you have other 4/5/6* toons to face her with? What are people using against Barriss to make this claim?
I think CG / EA did a great job balancing these units. The game overall is pretty well balanced when you take the entire roster in to consideration. Let's let the game develop a bit and people build up units that counter other units before calling stuff OP. Regarding these two units, let's examine their abilities and what they are...and also consider what a nerf would do.
Dooku: below average health unit, average damage dealing unit, does have powerful stun ability on attack which boosts his effective power. To compensate for being average in his stats, he is a quick toon that gets in multiple hit points. Take away, via nerf, his multiple hit points and he's just a squishy toon with average power. He would then be poorly balanced in the direction of being weak.
Barriss: Very tanky with a good heal mechanic. She has no aoe, no negative effects she can put down on the enemy, and she has ridiculously low damage output capacity. You have her on your team and you are offensively going 4 vs. 5. So let's say they nerf her heal...what does Barriss than do? Just die kinda slow? Why would you use her? If she doesn't effectively heal, and they don't offset this nerf with an increase in power, she will then have no real value to the squad. Her leader ability would still be decent, but you can't carry just that alone and compensate for having such a weak damage output unit.
So any nerf here to either unit needs to come with some accompanying offset buff. These are both balanced units that are not even the most deadly on the roster...not by a long shot. They can't afford to have a pure nerf with no offsetting change.
I can absolutely be pro nerf on some toons if they are OP, but this is a bad move here. The precedent would be set and any other toon people can't instantly defeat would be in serious danger of being on the nerf block (Ima, Ben, Sidious, Vader, Lando, etc. owners should be very concerned about this).
Perhaps some of his posts are, but it's the very nature of sarcasm (as he admitted above). I see the point he's trying to make (and I agree with it in fact). Calling out a tone argument makes the conversation go sideways though.
As I argued in a quieter thread, people spend money to save time: characters currently offered in packs can be farmed. Those with little control may want to "pwn" quickly without effort, and perhaps, just perhaps, there is this general tendency in human beings to look for people who to agree with them, in a manner of "yeah you spent too, so I it was OK that I did" psychology.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter to anyone else but "you". I did spend a lot on a freemium and I don't want to repeat the experience because today I realize those pixels and glory have been deleted from my phone and I'm none the wiser... Except I've got more control now, but less money
Regarding tone: I've read the "guides" here and even the ones for "people on a budget" recommend spending on the game, which is sort of hypocritical. I dislike that personally, but I'm not going to throw a fit over it because I'm annoyed reading them.
The same is happening here as with the HoDA forums: lot's of whine, much less useful content, those who spend vs those who don't drama. OP-this Nerf-that etc. It's all good. It's a game. Played by passionate people, some clueless, others obsessed with numbers, others with beating the odds, and others just to collect their favourites.
What point do you agree with though? He's in a nerf thread arguing about spending habits. The points seem way off topic and just trolling. Admitting you're being sarcastic doesn't make it any more excusable to come off as an elitist and belittle other people. That's not sarcasm. Saying that money spent on a unit means it is OP and justifies it being nerfed isn't sensible. Should we nerf all the pack toons than? HK 47 and also Mace Windu? People also spend money farming non-pack toons - should they be nerfed? Where would the line be drawn?
I don't agree with any of his points and he hasn't put forth any real justification that they should be nerfed.
I also totally agree with much of your post above. Much of this is the same stuff lol....the pay / free contention here though seems especially sharp.
And you're arguing about his tone
1) "P2Wers coming to protect their investment" - all current OP/nerf arguments on this forum do come off this way to be honest. There's hardly unbiased opinion to be found on Barris.
2) "Players don't spend money on things that are junk; they spend money on things that are considered "OP" [...] with the IDEA of what they're getting being OP." + "It's for all those in the forums that tried to act as though they bought her for reasons other than a perceived advantage. " - arguing that Barris is pretty strong from the P2W point of view.
You're arguing against the nerf because you say she is not "OP", but your opinion can be perceived as biased because you spent money and have characters that can beat teams with her. It's hard to remove the P2W aura around your arguments, which is simply what he is pointing out.
My opinion on Barris as someone who does not have her: I don't care. I really don't. I don't even know who she is in the SW world. I may get her from farming a node eventually. I can deal with the game as it stands without investing my energy in stats and number arguments. If she is nerfed, she will be for all players, those who bought her and those who farmed her and those who got lucky with a bronze pack. So... Why does it matter? The game won't break over that. Only those who spent effort/time/money on her will likely get ****, but what can you expect, it's CG.
They didnt nerf Sid or Ig-88 that bad so I still have some hope but nevertherless they did nerf chars. Also they might introduce new chars that make all current ones junk (there goes our time and or money). Hopefully they wont do that.
Regardless of what everyone says about money or not money, or how they enjoy the game, I believe everyone wants stable progression in a game. You dont want to wake up one day to see your favourite sexy char's costumes get nerfed. If you do nerf give me an option to get another char that I want!
Ok, for siths and giggles: how about, instead of nerfing Barris, we boost up the Snowtrooper? Or the Ewok? I've yet to fall in love with them.
BTW we're talking about Capital Games/EA here, creators of Heroes of Dragon Age, a freemium notorious for its immense power creep over time, and characters getting superseded within a few weeks of their release. So really, while I do relate to the frustration of dealing with change on one's roster, I much prefer the nerfing of a few characters to seeing SWGoH suffers the same issue as HoDA did.
I'm still eyeing the game sideways in that regards (til new packs/characters come out, we shall see).
so... the OP/nerf arguments do have the tone of: those who bought packs v. those who haven't
I understand your point: don't touch characters until the game is more "stable". i.e. Other characters hardly anyone has right now can require a nerf too based on stats/numbers arguments alone.
Though, you have to understand from an emotional, frustrating point of view that watching P2W players getting a ton of strong units right up front does give off a feeling of instability/power creep to the game because those few get the edge while the mass doesn't. It's seemingly a question of volume of units released in the game, through packs. No stats/number argument will take away the irrational frustration of being repeatedly beat in a game.
I can deal with that. For now
I do understand the emotional frustration. Makes total sense.
Just on a side note...relative to another game we've played, this game really is pretty well balanced if you go across the roster. CG had a post on the other forum for a game balance position and I think overall they did an excellent job. Sounds like they also were smart in the beta launch and took feedback from players about balance. Nothing's perfect, but I see that in general they are striving for a level of balance, counters, and competitive play.
I'm also keeping an eye out for excessive power creep and a few other issues. So far though I like what I see. There's lots of potential here.
Glad you mentioned this SK - I'm in the 'do not have' camp and having those additional DV shards would be very nice.