Shard Shop is stone useless for whales. Why?

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  • Options
    bleeaauuh wrote: »
    I like it, as a heavy spender myself
    You don't buy chromium packs to get ability mats, gear, droids or money. You buy chromium packs for SHARDS and only shards. I would have been extremely disappointed if I couldn't swap my extra shards for more shards

    But wouldn't it be awesome if we could buy packs with the offshoot chance of getting that stuff too?

    Isn't more for us a good thing?

    Isn't more money for them good for them?

    Who is losing in this scenario?
  • Telaan
    3454 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    Qeltar wrote: »
    Capture.JPG
    Top 10% of spenders generate 64% of revenues.

    The only problem I have with these graphs is it doesn't show what the amounts are that they're using to determine the top 10%.

    Also, this game has poorly designed IAP that discourages Dolphins from purchasing. I've also noticed that dolphins in this game would be killer whales in many others. The cost and ROI is atrocious. I am in this category.
  • Options
    Kosar wrote: »
    Hey, Papa John? It's me Whale.

    How you doing buddy?

    Good good. I just finished the pizza you sent over earlier. Fantastic as always.

    Great to hear, Whale.

    Love you guys. That's why I spent $10,000 on your pizza last month and will probably spend $10,000 more next month.

    We Love your business, Whale.

    But here's the problem. I'm still hungry. Can you send over a free pizza right now?

    You know, you buy so much, we always give you a 30% discount already.

    Yeah but I spend so much, I feel like I deserve a free one right now.

    Technically you've gotten $3,000 in free pizza by spending $10,000, Whale.

    Yeah but what have you done for me lately, Papa John?

    Well that last order, we gave you 5 pizzas for the price of 3...

    That hardly counts as a free gift, Pops.

    I'm mean, well, technically--

    Technically smechnically. Either you value my business with a free pizza right now or you can kiss me goodbye.

    Whale, calm down, man. You are receiving every pizza you pay for plus some every time. You have tried every single possible combination of our millions of possibilities.

    And now I wanna try something new. For free. How do you not get this. Send over 5 free pizzas now or else, John.

    5..? A second so it was 1.

    Well times have changed, Papa. Keep stalling and I'll make it 10.

    No one should eat this much pizza, Whale.

    Don't tell me how to eat! Just send the free pizza.

    I'd be happy to send you 3 free, Whale, if you buy 5--

    Buy more? MOAR?!?! Do I look like a clown?

    No, you look like a whale.

    Exactly. Now give me what I deserve, John.

    I am not entirely sure you get the core concept of business.

    What's not to get? I pay for some stuff, you give me *everything* else free. This is 'Murica!

    Well Whale, "Murica" also has CiCi's all you can eat buffet for $4.99.

    Give me that then.

    We aren't CiCi's, Whale.

    Well you better get your act together and rabble rabble rabble... *click* Wait... Hello?....Hello? Papa John did you hang up on me?.... Grrrrr rabble rabble rabble.....




    This script brought to you by Nationwide, proud sponsor of Peyton Mannings everywhere. Papa John's is on your side.




    Kosar, it's apparent that you've never been in a situation such as the one being discussed, so please keep your uninformed posts to yourself. Truly if you had anything positive to contribute here, you would understand some of the logic behind this matter.

    I, myself, must agree with Nae in some fashion. Having been given hope for a solution to extra shards for a number of weeks now, this update seems not to address the situation in its entirety.
    As Qeltar pointed out, it is the whales who invest the most and give developers ability to progress. That should mean something... Whales should expect a significant edge.
  • Options
    Let me make this simple. People like you ruin the game for the majority (where the actual money comes from.) Stop acting entitled to everything. Everyone knows if people can just buy the best at the start, those games never last. I applaud CG for keeping it healthy and long lasting. Don't get me wrong I spent enough to 7*/6* every toon and finish them up at my convenience, to keep the game lively for me. Sorry about your loss bro, keep the jimmies rustled. I wouldn't be surprised if CG made this move just to get rid of the toxic whales, they already got your money. HAHAHAH

    I mean, your position on this doesn't even make a bit of sense. Entitled to everything? What exactly do you think I feel I'm entitled to? Is it entitled to what to spend currency that I have on something? If I literally cannot spend it on anything then I'm kind of stuck in a weird spot - you really think that's entitlement? Isn't entitlement to using what you have sort of... normal?

    What part of this scenario favors only me? Why can't anyone use the entire Shop? How do I feel this caters to me and me only?

    You already CAN buy the best at the start. I have all of the characters. How does this game not allow you to buy all the best right away?

    Why would CG ever want to get rid of whales? Where is the logic in this statement? How is wanting to spend more money toxic to their bottom line? You do realize the point of this post was me saying "I would like to be able to spend more money on this game," right? You think CG doesn't like that?
  • LoveLoveRice
    182 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    Qeltar wrote: »
    Capture.JPG
    Top 10% of spenders generate 64% of revenues.

    Not sure what that graph is entailed to or how many people are in the 64% and I am to lazy to make my own graph. It still looks pretty fishy bra, but I will concede the point, until I want to make a fuss about it.
  • TheaPevahr
    14 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    Qeltar wrote: »
    Let me make this simple. People like you ruin the game for the majority (where the actual money comes from.)
    You've said this twice now, but you're mistaken. The majority of income for these games comes from the big spenders, not the $10 or $20 ones. There are countless studies. That's why they design them the way they do.

    How many actual big spenders are their vs all the micro transactions. I will concede the point, if I saw evidence, It is simple math. How many total players in the game split into big and non big spenders. I could very well be wrong, I just want to see the data. If that is in fact the case, the big spenders got the shaft and it still makes it all that more funny.

    Here's one article: http://recode.net/2014/02/26/a-long-tail-of-whales-half-of-mobile-games-money-comes-from-0-15-percent-of-players/

    That one cites about half of revenue coming from 0.15% of players, or "whales." To lose this category of player or give them no real way to live as a whale is to end up losing out on even over half of your revenue. In the games they looked at 1.5% of the player base spent anything at all and the micro transactions are nothing compared to the top of the food chain.

    The lowest 50% of spenders (non-F2P) account for about 10% of overall revenue according to another article based upon similar information but a little more detailed. http://venturebeat.com/2014/02/26/only-0-15-of-mobile-gamers-account-for-50-percent-of-all-in-game-revenue-exclusive/

  • Options
    Kosar wrote: »
    Hey, Papa John? It's me Whale.

    How you doing buddy?

    Good good. I just finished the pizza you sent over earlier. Fantastic as always.

    Great to hear, Whale.

    Love you guys. That's why I spent $10,000 on your pizza last month and will probably spend $10,000 more next month.

    We Love your business, Whale.

    But here's the problem. I'm still hungry. Can you send over a free pizza right now?

    You know, you buy so much, we always give you a 30% discount already.

    Yeah but I spend so much, I feel like I deserve a free one right now.

    Technically you've gotten $3,000 in free pizza by spending $10,000, Whale.

    Yeah but what have you done for me lately, Papa John?

    Well that last order, we gave you 5 pizzas for the price of 3...

    That hardly counts as a free gift, Pops.

    I'm mean, well, technically--

    Technically smechnically. Either you value my business with a free pizza right now or you can kiss me goodbye.

    Whale, calm down, man. You are receiving every pizza you pay for plus some every time. You have tried every single possible combination of our millions of possibilities.

    And now I wanna try something new. For free. How do you not get this. Send over 5 free pizzas now or else, John.

    5..? A second so it was 1.

    Well times have changed, Papa. Keep stalling and I'll make it 10.

    No one should eat this much pizza, Whale.

    Don't tell me how to eat! Just send the free pizza.

    I'd be happy to send you 3 free, Whale, if you buy 5--

    Buy more? MOAR?!?! Do I look like a clown?

    No, you look like a whale.

    Exactly. Now give me what I deserve, John.

    I am not entirely sure you get the core concept of business.

    What's not to get? I pay for some stuff, you give me *everything* else free. This is 'Murica!

    Well Whale, "Murica" also has CiCi's all you can eat buffet for $4.99.

    Give me that then.

    We aren't CiCi's, Whale.

    Well you better get your act together and rabble rabble rabble... *click* Wait... Hello?....Hello? Papa John did you hang up on me?.... Grrrrr rabble rabble rabble.....




    This script brought to you by Nationwide, proud sponsor of Peyton Mannings everywhere. Papa John's is on your side.

    @Kosar This script is gold. Can you get it into this video format with the animated bears? https://youtube.com/watch?v=RN-P5YDFhAs
  • Options
    The main point here to me is that the shop should be a shop. What i mean by this is,it should sell mats, credits, have shard trades etc. Also they did mention in the original post that there was an exclusive character being added, now the post is nowhere to be found. In all honestly who cares about them adding any characters unless your having trouble with pve, cause pvp will be the same with that crappy poe nerf. So at the end of the day whether they adding 10 new characters in this so called shop, we wouldn't use them unless it was for pve anyway. If they would add purple mats i'm sure 99% of this community would be pleased.
    https://youtube.com/user/MurdaDeadpool/videos Subscribe and follow me here teaminstinct.net/ Home to Team Instinct
  • LoveLoveRice
    182 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    TheaPevahr wrote: »
    Thank you for the link.
    Naecabon wrote: »
    Why would CG ever want to get rid of whales? Where is the logic in this statement? How is wanting to spend more money toxic to their bottom line? You do realize the point of this post was me saying "I would like to be able to spend more money on this game," right? You think CG doesn't like that?

    I do not know, you tell me. They are apparently doing a good job at making you rage and want to quit.

    /sarcasm CG must be dumb, look at all these graphs and links. What on earth are they doing.
  • Kosar
    84 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    @YoYoYoda369 yes, actually I have been in that position. It's terrible to assume things about people, btw. I figured out a long, long time ago in a lifetime far far away that in my gaming career I could pay and have everything in situations like this and then sit around bored in my shiny new armor with nothing to do, or I could pay to have enough to make the rest of the game exciting to play. In a game this new, if you truly have everything, you are either playing an anxious waiting game for new stuff or moving on if you are upset. What emotions this causes you, or what patience you can muster... That's your business.

    And @stupidfatfool thank you lol I all but forgot about those bears. I might actually make that happen after Galactic War tonight and post it separately.
  • Options
    The main point here to me is that the shop should be a shop. What i mean by this is,it should sell mats, credits, have shard trades etc. Also they did mention in the original post that there was an exclusive character being added, now the post is nowhere to be found. In all honestly who cares about them adding any characters unless your having trouble with pve, cause pvp will be the same with that crappy poe nerf. So at the end of the day whether they adding 10 new characters in this so called shop, we wouldn't use them unless it was for pve anyway. If they would add purple mats i'm sure 99% of this community would be pleased.

    Not a bad idea. I would also like though the ability to exchange shards on my 7-star heroes for Ally points (kidding, please don't do this as the 60,000 I have don't need any help). Though it could be possible one of the 10 new characters does help counter Poe (more than QGJ already does). Like a super fast Young Obi-Wan (turn 6 or so).

    And please, can a mod delete the ridiculously long, logically flawed Papa-John's analogy? It is irrelevant and misses the point entirely. What the situation could be more like is buying $10,000 worth of pizza and only being able to eat $7,000 of it or less because the remaining $3,000 you bought is inedible. @Kosar @EA_Jesse
  • stupidfatfool
    715 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    TheaPevahr wrote: »
    And please, can a mod delete the ridiculously long, logically flawed Papa-John's analogy? It is irrelevant and misses the point entirely. What the situation could be more like is buying $10,000 worth of pizza and only being able to eat $7,000 of it or less because the remaining $3,000 you bought is inedible. @Kosar @EA_Jesse

    Please don't delete the Papa John story. It's the best script ever.

    @TheaPevahr Also, I think your sample story isn't quite right either.

    It would be more like buying $10,000 worth of pizza because you wanted $2,500 worth of pepperoni, but they didn't sell the pepperoni separately from the pizza in bulk. They do let you buy $25 worth of pepperoni per day without buying the pizza, but that would mean you'd have to wait 100 days to get all of the pepperoni that you wanted.

    So you end up with $2500 worth of pepperoni, but also $3000 worth of cheese, $1000 worth of tomato sauce, and $3500 worth of dough that you don't really want.

    So Papa John goes and offers a new deal where you can trade in your extra cheese, tomato sauce, and dough for pepperoni, but you don't want that either because you got all of the pepperoni that you wanted already. What you really want to do is to trade in your extra cheese, tomato sauce, and dough for a burger. But someone tells you, hey, don't worry too much, maybe they'll add burritos to the trade-in menu.

    But then the guy who was buying only $25 worth of pepperoni per day gets **** off because he couldn't afford to buy the $10,000 worth of pizza to get $7,500 worth of cheese, tomato sauce, and dough, and then exchange that extra stuff to get burgers and burritos.

    So Papa John says, fine, we'll keep the trade-in option but only allow trade-ins for pepperonis.
  • stupidfatfool
    715 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    Duplicate.
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    Hey.. Let's just put this whole thing in perspective.

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  • Kosar
    84 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    It's totally on point. The fact you further the analogy renders it more useful. Trade your pizza for other pizza...the entire point of the shard shop. It's for completionists, regardless of spending habits. It's not a place for people who spent money to get free things.

    They want business. Big spenders need to keep spending so their accumulated extra stuff goes toward the exclusive character eventually in the shard shop. If you have not maxed every character, this is your chance. Her exact words were the exclusive will be added down the road...or at a later date... Not immediately. Gaming has always and will always follow the middle, mass progressions when it is working and healthy. Every game that tries to rush for the top 5% risks leaving 95% behind. Fun experience, being in that top 5% is frustrating if you take everything so seriously lie like most of you are doing.

    If you really don't see the the flawed logic behind the tantrum of demanding in this specific instance that the game be catered to the fits of the few, I dnt know what to tell you except:

    Wait for them to release thank you rewards for things like money spent, days played, "birthday" of your character, etc. Almost every good game does this eventually, but demanding that the shard shop be that reward is ludicrous when it was not expressly created to be that. It's simply an alleviation of some players irritation.
  • Options
    Qeltar wrote: »
    Capture.JPG
    Top 10% of spenders generate 64% of revenues.

    But what amount is the average of the top 10%....I'm certain you fit in there Qeltar and you don't consider yourself a whale...a dolphin at most right? That graph is totally useless without more data.
  • Baal
    602 posts Member
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    I've bought several cars...none of them ever turned into helicopters, well, maybe some parts kind of did, after being melted down, but if that happened, that was well after I sold them for scrap.

    They just kind of stayed cars for a while, and they weren't the newest or the coolest for long.

    Still beat riding the bus.

    You bought chromium cards early. Worth it at the time? I bought bourbon, happy with my purchases.
  • Options
    The problem with all this whale logic is that dolphins and ftp have to deal with your freebie-whale content derived from said shop as the whales instantly gain access to broken toons from this mythical shop. There has to be some form of slow down across the board so normal folks can have any semblance of planning.
  • Baal
    602 posts Member
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    Also, if anyone really prides themself on being such a big spender, you know, one of those coveted players they need to keep happy, they'll spend. If not, they rule themself out of that top spender category.

    People make a living catching whales, chopping them up, and selling them off chunk by chunk. When one is finished they don't waste time trying to get it to be more of a whale, they just harpoon another.




  • Options
    Will someone please save the toxic entitled whales
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    @Simsurf, @Naecabon is not being toxic. He is just venting frustration.

    I am in the same boat as him. I have plent of extra shards.....hell I have over 700 extra Darth Maul shards alone. I don't want to just buy shards for characters I am never going to use, I want to be able to have an edge. If I have spent over $3000, no offense....I should have some sort of advantage because I am helping fund the development of the game. The F2P player is needed, but CG I feel is only catering to them at this time.
  • Simsurf
    71 posts Member
    edited February 2016
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    Ravage wrote: »
    @Simsurf, @Naecabon is not being toxic. He is just venting frustration.

    I am in the same boat as him. I have plent of extra shards.....hell I have over 700 extra Darth Maul shards alone. I don't want to just buy shards for characters I am never going to use, I want to be able to have an edge. If I have spent over $3000, no offense....I should have some sort of advantage because I am helping fund the development of the game. The F2P player is needed, but CG I feel is only catering to them at this time.

    You spent over $3000 playing a mobile phone app? I would be to embarrassed to mention that anywhere in public B) you made the decision to spend all that money right? You are not entitled to special treatment from the developers...
  • Options
    Simsurf wrote: »
    Ravage wrote: »
    @Simsurf, @Naecabon is not being toxic. He is just venting frustration.

    I am in the same boat as him. I have plent of extra shards.....hell I have over 700 extra Darth Maul shards alone. I don't want to just buy shards for characters I am never going to use, I want to be able to have an edge. If I have spent over $3000, no offense....I should have some sort of advantage because I am helping fund the development of the game. The F2P player is needed, but CG I feel is only catering to them at this time.

    You spent over $3000 playing a mobile phone app? I would be to embarrassed to mention that anywhere in public B) you made the decision to spend all that money right? You are not entitled to special treatment from the developers...

    Do you guys just not play app games or something?
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    @Simsurf many people have spent money....without the top 5-10% spenders paying YOU wouldn't have a game to play. So yes we do deserve to have special treatment.
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    Noktarn wrote: »
    The problem with all this whale logic is that dolphins and ftp have to deal with your freebie-whale content derived from said shop as the whales instantly gain access to broken toons from this mythical shop. There has to be some form of slow down across the board so normal folks can have any semblance of planning.

    The shop isn't mythical, it's in the patch notes.

    We have everything anyway, it's not like you're suddenly at a loss because we get stuff to buy with excess shards. This stuff isn't going to our A Team. It's not even going to our B or C or D teams. This will inevitably end up on teams E thru H, big deal.
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    Baal wrote: »
    I've bought several cars...none of them ever turned into helicopters, well, maybe some parts kind of did, after being melted down, but if that happened, that was well after I sold them for scrap.

    They just kind of stayed cars for a while, and they weren't the newest or the coolest for long.

    Still beat riding the bus.

    You bought chromium cards early. Worth it at the time? I bought bourbon, happy with my purchases.

    Jeeeesus **** none of this even makes sense. I give up.
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    Ravage wrote: »
    @Simsurf many people have spent money....without the top 5-10% spenders paying YOU wouldn't have a game to play. So yes we do deserve to have special treatment.

    You should just buy shares in EA games THEN you might be entitled to demand what you want :D they had no problems developing and releasing the game without your money...
  • Options
    Naecabon wrote: »
    Disclaimer: I'm a high spender and this entire post is geared towards the opinion of other like minded high spenders.

    I've been eagerly awaiting the Shard Shop to "spend" bonus shards that have been sitting in my stash for a while now, as I'd opened a lot of packs in the beginning and I have many extra. I knew this when buying packs (they've said for a while now a shop was coming) and I was content on sitting on them in the meantime because I believed CG would inevitably incorporate something in to the game that I could spend them on.

    Well, as I'd feared, the Shard Shop seemingly only sells more character shards.

    My issue with this is simply that the shop does not offer any real utility to high spenders. If we have a lot of extra shards, it will be almost impossible to spend them now. I probably have more than I'll ever be able to use. Which means I still cannot warrant purchasing more packs - if there are new characters I'd like to collect some day, and I wanted to open some packs to try to get shards for them, the amount of surplus shards I would be collecting would be too high of a ratio to warrant making that purchase.

    Without actually giving us ANYTHING else to spend our Shard Shop currency on, we are now locked in to only being able to stare at more shards for characters we already own.

    Why is this shop only Character Shards? Why couldn't there be ANYTHING else for us to spend it on? Energy recharges? Credits? Gear? Ability Ups? AAAAAANYTHING else to use this on would give it some utility whatsoever.

    As it is, this shop is basically useless for your high spenders. While it's GREAT for F2P and I'm really excited for them, it's a real disappointment that this feature only appeals to one demographic, and does not contain something everyone can be excited for, regardless of your spending bracket.

    Can't you spend those extra shards on new characters instead of spending more on chromium packs though? Then that would mean you don't have to spend any extra cash on new packs, that's how I think it might benefit you at least. Not sure how it will be until it is out.
  • Baal
    602 posts Member
    Options
    You have an edge, you have an advantage. You're not helping, you helped.
    Help some more.
    You'll keep some degree of advantage.

    You were a ftp until you spent...$3,000...Probably wouldn't have spent that if the only people that played the game had already spent that amount and all you were doing was paying the price of admission.

    The part the graph posted earlier leaves out is churn and burn...the vast majority of the small percentage of people who spend a bunch, end up getting bored or disgruntled and slow/stop their spending, which leaves a vacancy that in turn incentives someone else to spend to gain an advantage.

    You plan on spending $15,000 more on this game in the next 10 months? You probably won't, take that as a challenge if you want, but I wouldn't do so expecting anything but diminishing rewards. Statistically it's a lot easier for them to replace you than retain you.





  • Options
    Naecabon wrote: »
    Baal wrote: »
    I've bought several cars...none :) of them ever turned into helicopters, well, maybe some parts kind of did, after being melted down, but if that happened, that was well after I sold them for scrap.

    They just kind of stayed cars for a while, and they weren't the newest or the coolest for long.

    Still beat riding the bus.

    You bought chromium cards early. Worth it at the time? I bought bourbon, happy with my purchases.

    Jeeeesus **** none of this even makes sense. I give up.

    Nah I hear what your saying :) just a bit of whale baiting to put a smile on my face :) , caught at least one entitled to own the game whale today :D but not you :)
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